=== m_conley is now known as m_conley_away
=== asac_ is now known as asac
=== m_conley_away is now known as m_conley
=== m_conley is now known as m_conley_away
=== m_conley_away is now known as m_conley
chrisccoulsonbhearsum, when do you start pushing out new builds to nightly and aurora users?14:23
bhearsumnightly updates to 8 should be out already14:24
bhearsumAurora updates will probably be out late this week14:25
bhearsum(and incidentally, Beta updates should be out tomorrow/thursday)14:25
chrisccoulsonbhearsum, ah, ok. thanks14:25
chrisccoulsoni'm ready to do new aurora and beta builds this week :)14:25
bhearsumnp, that's great!14:26
chrisccoulsonmdeslaur, it seems that you triage more useless firefox bugs than i do ;)14:47
chrisccoulsoni wish i could automate the closing of bugs like bug 80441714:47
ubot2Launchpad bug 804417 in firefox "facebook is not opening in firefox" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80441714:48
mdeslaurchrisccoulson: yes, I get them out of the security so they can get properly ignored by the firefox team14:48
chrisccoulsonthanks! \o/14:48
mdeslaurchrisccoulson: np :)14:48
chrisccoulsonhow are you enjoying the royal couple btw?14:48
chrisccoulsonit's so great to not have them over here ;)14:48
mdeslaurchrisccoulson: oh, they're kayaking in the northwest territories now. Would you like some pictures? :)14:50
chrisccoulsonmdeslaur, no thanks, i'll let you keep the pictures to yourself :)14:50
mdeslaurchrisccoulson: for future reference, please send more tv shows to canada, and less royal couples. thanks.14:51
chrisccoulsonmdeslaur, oh, i'm not sure you would want some of our tv shows either ;)14:52
chrisccoulsonsome of them are pretty terrible14:52
chrisccoulsonthis looks crazy: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-1404197314:53
chrisccoulsonthat would be really annoying for anybody who had just spent a day washing and polishing their car14:55
mdeslaurchrisccoulson: I was tempted to write "Try this link: http://www.facebook.com" in that bug14:55
chrisccoulsonthat might be good advice14:55
chrisccoulsoni honestly don't know what people expect us to do with bugs like that though, and that one is fairly low down on the usefulness scale ;)14:56
mdeslaurI think I'll just tell them to go to askubuntu.com14:57
chrisccoulsonthat will please jcastro ;)14:57
* mdeslaur will refrain from a fake steve jobs "Have you tried OpenBSD?" type response14:57
micahgthe convert to question response in firefox-lp-improvements suggests askubuntu.com14:58
mdeslaurhmm, I should edit the one the security team uses14:58
ftahm, no dpm :(15:11
chrisccoulsonsigh @ https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=669625. i honestly think we should drop firefox17:56
ubot2Mozilla bug 669625 in Disability Access APIs "Linux/atk support for for e10s" [Normal,New: ]17:56
chrisccoulsonat least google try to keep chrome working on LTS versions17:57
micahgwell, google runs on the LTS, so it behooves them :)17:59
micahgI mean they are commited to keeping it running18:00
micahgFirefox doesn't seem to be as committed to linux as a whole18:00
chrisccoulsonand if that bug is anything to go by, then i don't see how we can realistically support firefox anymore tbh18:08
micahgwell, they've been conservative with technologies the past even for new releases, so I think they might change their minds there once they realize the impact18:09
micahgchrisccoulson: workaround already proposed in that bug :)18:14
chrisccoulsonit's still concerning that we get mixed messages from mozilla. do they expect us to ship the latest version or not?18:15
chrisccoulsonFernando certainly didn't think that we would be :/18:16
bhearsumi can't _imagine_ we would want Ubuntu LTS to ship really old Firefoxes18:53
micahgbhearsum: I'm still waiting to see what comes of the LTS discussions upstream18:55
bhearsumspecifically, whether or not Mozilla is going to have LTS versions?18:56
micahgbhearsum: yes, and if not Mozilla, how much community support with specific knowledge of the codebase18:56
* micahg would definitely prefer Mozilla to do it though :)18:57
micahgand that's not a commitment in any way to an LTS, but rather would like to see what's on the table and then make an informed decision18:58
chrisccoulsoni wouldn't prefer an LTS version of firefox, but I would prefer to ship the latest version if it works ;)18:58
bhearsumi'm not a decision maker or anything, but i can tell you that there's very little to no energy behind doing an LTS version - of course, that could change with enough backlash18:58
bhearsumright now we're mostly treating it as a reaction to change, though18:59
chrisccoulsoni wouldn't really want to cripple our users with an LTS version of firefox, and one of the blockers for adopting linux is that we make users wait 6 whole months to get new versions of apps, which they have to upgrade their entire OS to get19:00
chrisccoulsonwe certainly don't want that19:00
chrisccoulsonwell, i don't ;)19:00
micahgand I don't want to deal with people having their addons broke every 6 weeks or with some other regression in the browser :), but we've already had this discussion :)19:01
chrisccoulsonwell, the addon situation isn't really that bad, and will certainly improve19:02
chrisccoulsonas i've said before, the number of users who want to run the latest outweigh the number who want an old version19:02
chrisccoulsonand if we're ever going to achieve mark's ambition of 200 million users, then the current status quo isn't good enough ;)19:03
chrisccoulsonusers on every other single platform get the latest version of the browser, and other applications19:04
chrisccoulsonit's only us who make users wait 6 months and then force them to ugrade their entire OS19:04
micahgchrisccoulson: well, I'd rather figure out how to easily give the ones who want the latest crack rather than force it on everyone19:04
chrisccoulsonwhy make the majority of users who want it jump through hoops?19:04
micahgwell, I'd consider making the LTS only on an LTS if we do indeed see it's a majority (since the LTS user would most likely prefer stability)19:05
chrisccoulsonwell, we already have LTS users asking for the latest version19:05
micahgbut it's moot until the conversation happens upstream19:05
chrisccoulsoni even have people inside canonical pinging me for it now (from people running lucid)19:06
micahgchrisccoulson: we have a PPA for them19:06
chrisccoulsoni certainly don't support the LTS idea. i just want to make sure the version we do get works19:06
chrisccoulsonPPA's suck19:06
chrisccoulsonwe shouldn't provide users with a crappy experience and then tell them they have to install from a PPA to get an acceptable experience19:07
micahgthe experience depends on what your goals are19:07
chrisccoulsonand 3.6 really is a bad experience compared to the version of chromium we ship in lucid19:07
chrisccoulsonwell, if you set your goals low, then we'll never get anywhere tbh19:07
micahg3.6 wouldn't be the Firefox LTS inany case19:07
chrisccoulsonyeah, but 3.6 is a perfect example of how quickly things date19:08
micahgit's 1.5 yrs old, there are proposal for 6 month LTSs or 1 yr LTSs19:09
micahgagain, moot discussion until discussion happens upstream19:09
chrisccoulsonand as bhearsum said - "there's very little to no energy behind doing an LTS version". i think it would be foolish to throw away all the support we get, and the testing community, to ship an LTS version that nobody really supports (other than a few linux distro's)19:09
chrisccoulsonthis actually sums up my thoughts exactly: http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.planning/msg/8192ab9c6511119f19:12
chrisccoulsonand http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.planning/msg/cdd6d90a4cfe83f219:12
bhearsumchrisccoulson: huh, do you not work for Canonical?19:14
chrisccoulsonbhearsum, i do19:15
bhearsumoh, ok - i misread between the lines of backscroll19:15
chrisccoulsonoh, which bit did you misread?19:15
micahgbhearsum: I'm the one responsible for the stable release security updates :)19:16
bhearsumi thought "people inside canonical" implied you weren't in that group19:16
bhearsummicahg: oh, cool19:16
chrisccoulsonbhearsum, oh, sorry ;)19:16
chrisccoulsonmicahg, i'm going to try and get our firefox-next PPA building on armel btw19:22
chrisccoulsoni spoke briefly to jelmer at the rally last week, and he seemed fairly open to the idea of letting us do that19:23
micahgchrisccoulson: umm, I think that's a bad idea until we get the faster arm builders19:23
chrisccoulsonmicahg, not for firefox-next, it will only be about 1 build/wk19:23
chrisccoulsonwe have no armel testing coverage at any point until we try to do a release build19:24
micahgum, I hope the beta channel isn't once a week19:24
chrisccoulsoni'm not sure how often builds will come from the beta channel, but i can't imagine it would be much less frequently than that19:24
chrisccoulsonand why is that a problem?19:24
micahgI was still under the impression that the first beta should be the release build unless big issues are found19:24
micahgif they're rebuilding once a week, something is wrong with the process19:25
chrisccoulsonwell, new builds are inevitable as more people test them and find issues19:25
chrisccoulsoni don't think that would indicate anything wrong with the process at all19:25
chrisccoulsonand it's not like it's difficult for me to support that19:25
micahgwell, in that case, they're really betas and not RCs19:25
chrisccoulsoni'm already ready to push the button on the first 6.0 beta tomorrow19:26
micahgI'd like to actually use -proposed for extended user testing for this new process19:26
micahgbut I can't do that if they rebuild every week19:27
micahgwell, I could, it'll just be annoying19:27
chrisccoulsonwell, i don't know how often we'll get builds. but i honestly don't think that tomorrows beta will be the release build in 8 weeks time ;)19:27
micahgI think I need to talk to the RM about this and find out what the actual goal of the beta channel is19:28
chrisccoulsonto fix all the remaining issues before release?19:28
chrisccoulsonm_conley, did you see my comment in #ubuntu-desktop earlier, about an issue that didrocks had with thunderbird?19:37
m_conleychrisccoulson: no - what's up?19:37
chrisccoulsonm_conley, he was running a nightly build (because 5.0 crashes on startup), and he hit an issue where the UI main window was displaying with no contents in the folder pane19:38
chrisccoulsonand this error in the error console:19:38
chrisccoulson"Error: tree is undefined" @ chrome://messenger/content/folderPane.js:88519:38
chrisccoulsonand when you look at the code, that exception is actually impossible19:38
chrisccoulsonso, we deleted the startup cache from his profile, and it worked again afterwards :/19:39
m_conleychrisccoulson: hrm19:39
chrisccoulsonobviously, not reproducible, which is helpful ;)19:39
m_conleychrisccoulson: yeah.  :/19:39
chrisccoulsoni wish we'd kept the contents of the startup cache now19:40
chrisccoulsonhindsight is a wonderful thing ;)19:40
m_conleychrisccoulson: no way to retrieve it?19:43
chrisccoulsonm_conley, no, i just asked him to delete it, before i realized it might actually be useful to keep it19:44
m_conleychrisccoulson: and what was this about TB 5 crashing on startup?  I remember you mentioning it earlier, but it strikes me as odd.  How did that pass our tests?19:44
chrisccoulsonm_conley, that's basically https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=66077819:45
ubot2Mozilla bug 660778 in JavaScript Engine "Stack Overflow Crash [@ js::gc::Cell::arenaHeader() | js::gc::Cell::address()] | ASSERTION: JSEventListener has wrong script context?: 'stack && NS_SUCCEEDED(stack- >Peek(&cx)) && cx && GetScriptContextFromJSContext(cx) == mContext'" [Critical,Resolved: fixed]19:45
chrisccoulsoni'm not sure what conditions actually trigger it19:45
m_conleyit's extremely strange that this got through our QA.19:46
m_conleychrisccoulson: oh - the patch only landed yesterday...19:47
BUGabundoand here comes Firefox 8.0 :O21:03
=== m_conley is now known as m_conley_away
chrisccoulsonis this guy spying on me? http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11020681&postcount=47122:40
chrisccoulsoni uploaded that, like, 1 minute ago22:41
chrisccoulsonok, maybe 10 minutes ago ;)22:43

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