[00:35] <charlie-tca> cody-somerville: sorry about those emails coming out
[01:45] <Unit193> astraljava: I just got back, but I'll have time to run a few
[02:59] <Unit193> 32bit LiveCD didn't work for me
[02:59] <Unit193> GridCube: How did your testing go?
[03:00] <GridCube> i have just turned on my computer since saturday
[03:28] <Unit193> Libgnome-control-center1 Is in the updates...
[05:13] <Unit193> charlie-tca: You won't like it, but I have done desktop and alt installs today
[06:29] <astraljava> Unit193: Why would he not like it? Every bit of testing is good, by nature. :)
[06:37] <Unit193> astraljava: I have never used the QA tracker so I just put in in the GDoc :P (I did make a QA account)
[06:40] <astraljava> Unit193: Okay. But the tracker should be real simple to use, if I'm thinking of the right thing. Basically you just mention what happened in your testing, either PASS, or FAIL, and if latter, then possibly the relevant bug #, if any. If no bug is filed, then maybe some free speech explanation of why it/what failed.
[06:42] <astraljava> free speech? seriously? I dunno what I was thinking there. :D
[06:46] <Unit193> astraljava: Aye, it does seem simple to use I just don't have any bug # on what I have (One was reported by another person so I have that one). And maybe you were thinking freehand
[06:52] <Unit193> This one http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
[06:57] <Unit193> astraljava: Hmmm... You think I can just about paste my doc report?
[07:01] <astraljava> freehand sounds a lot better. :)
[07:01] <astraljava> paste where?
[07:02] <Unit193> ISO tracker :P Nice and short...
[07:04] <astraljava> Unit193: There's the comment field, so IMHO you can fill that up as you like. Basically the more information the better, but of course keep it coherent still. :)
[07:10] <Unit193> Does this make any sense? (And thanks for the help!) "Save Session in the logout menu was checked by default. Guest account doesn't login (Changes to LightDM wallpaper)"
[07:12] <astraljava> Unit193: Sure, it does to me, even though I am not fully aware of all the implications. But someone who is should understand immediately what's that about.
[12:20] <charlie-tca> Unit193: Thanks for the tests. astraljava is correct. Every test helps.
[12:20] <charlie-tca> Yes, your comments made complete sense to me. You did a good job with them.
[12:23] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Thanks for reminding to download the images. :D
[12:23] <astraljava> I would have forgotten otherwise. :)
[15:17] <GridCube> i finally did a test yesterday
[17:30] <charlie-tca> Both Mythbuntu and Kubuntu will be skipping alpha2, too many issues with it.
[17:53] <Unit193> charlie-tca: Thank you. Do I need to file bug reports on those other ones?
[17:59] <charlie-tca> which ones? I lost track now
[18:01] <Unit193> Save Session and Guest Account (The other bug isn't exact, but it's  just about)
[18:01] <charlie-tca> guest account should have one filed, yes
[18:02] <charlie-tca> save session is questionable. It works part time
[18:03] <Unit193> I find it annoying for it to be default though...
[18:04] <charlie-tca> sorry
[18:04] <charlie-tca> You can file it as wishlist for a change, if you really want to 
[18:05] <charlie-tca> It is quite tricky to turn off and on
[18:08] <Unit193> I thought this has changed in Oneiric but I could be wrong...
[18:58] <astraljava> What application provides the session-saving in Xubuntu? Yes, I could google, but I prefer talk^Wchatting. :D
[19:06] <Unit193> Ctrl+w didn't work for you...
[19:06] <charlie-tca> Sessions and Startup in settings manager
[19:07] <charlie-tca> The name of the exec is xfce4-session-settings
[19:11] <astraljava> Unit193: I know. :) I don't think it's supposed to, it's kind of a joke really... ;)
[19:11] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Thanks!
[19:12] <charlie-tca> no problem
[19:14] <astraljava> Hehe, I'm not too sad about GNOME 2 going away, really. For instance, I set gnome-terminal so that it's default profile has -geometry=94x43, which it would execute so that the first instance would provide that, but all following instances would have 94x41.
[19:14] <astraljava> So, I reset the profile. Changed preferred applications' system with custom entry, defining that there.
[19:15] <astraljava> Now every instance would appear as 94x41. So I set the options as -geometry=94x45, and now it is as I wanted, meaning 94x43. :D
[19:15] <charlie-tca> weird
[19:15] <astraljava> Good riddance, gnome-people, I say. :D
[19:16] <charlie-tca> xfce terminal you can set in ~/.config/Terminal and it works for every instance you open
[19:16] <astraljava> Would that make them hobbits?
[19:16] <astraljava> charlie-tca: I believe every other terminal would.
[19:16] <charlie-tca> um, I thought hobbits and gnomes are different ;)
[19:17] <Unit193> But gnome-terminal does have a bell...
[19:17] <charlie-tca> We do too, if you turn on all the stuff it needs to beep
[19:17] <astraljava> charlie-tca: In a Tolkien-world, they would. But elsewhere?
[19:18] <charlie-tca> Unit193: same file to turn on bell, plus turning on system sounds
[19:18] <Unit193> I couldn't track them all down... And it might be nice to just have the taskbar blink
[19:19] <charlie-tca> yeah, that ain't gonna happen
[19:20] <charlie-tca> hm, maybe use screen/byobu to control it. It works
[19:20] <Unit193> I know, it just might be handy
[19:20] <charlie-tca> I turn off all those annoying sounds most of the time
[19:22] <Unit193> Aye, I just have to check the terminal every now and then to see if any of the channels have anything
[19:23] <charlie-tca> yup
[19:23] <charlie-tca> weechat uses terminal too
[19:23] <charlie-tca> but I got a bell that tells me when you hit my name, at least
[19:30] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Cool, I suppose weechat has the support for that, then. I guess irssi might have, too, but since I run it on a remote server, to which I connect from my machine, I guess it loses somewhere down the road.
[19:30] <charlie-tca> It's a plugin
[19:31] <charlie-tca> irssi may not have that beeper plugin available
[19:31] <Unit193> astraljava: /set bell and /set beep    should show you what you want
[19:33] <Unit193> I get the beeps on Konsole in Kubuntu (Dual boot that I almost never use) and PortablePuTTY (Flash drive for windows computers)
[19:34] <astraljava> Unit193: Okay, can you hilight me, please? (and pardon for the rest of the channel, but it's quiet out there right now)
[19:34] <Unit193> astraljava: Never
[19:34] <charlie-tca> astraljava: 
[19:34] <charlie-tca> quiet, in #xubuntu-devel?
[19:34] <charlie-tca> lol
[19:34] <astraljava> Nah, doesn't work. Probably the screen/remote thingie what loses it. Thanks anyway!
[19:34] <Unit193> Seems to be just us 3
[19:35] <charlie-tca> well, the rest are just being quiet ;)
[19:35] <Unit193> astraljava: C-a C-g
[19:38] <astraljava> Unit193: Okay, can you try again, please?
[19:38] <Unit193> astraljava: Sure!
[19:38] <astraljava> Nope, still nothing.
[19:38] <astraljava> Oh well, I'll manage.
[19:38] <Unit193> astraljava: Did you switch to audio bell or visual bell?
[19:39] <astraljava> It said "switched to audible bell" when I hit that combo.
[19:39] <astraljava> ...or something like that anyway.
[19:39] <astraljava> But it probably now beeps in the server hall up in some ISPs dungeons. :D
[19:45] <charlie-tca> heh
[19:45] <charlie-tca> lucky fellows
[19:47] <Unit193> I found that finch is binging away when I get a message on the computer it's running on :P
[19:53] <astraljava> Well, I believe the machine my session is running on is actually buried so deep inside some rocks that nobody cares. Nobody hears, either, unless someone's there to do some maintenance. But then I believe I'm not the only one doing so, so they probably wear protection anyway. :D
[19:55] <Unit193> I just have mine running from home with an uptime of just over 30 days (Not much, but I was having issues with it that are fixed now)
[20:11] <astraljava> Unit193: Yeah. I tend to move around a lot, so I prefer having it constantly open and accessible from all around.
[20:11] <astraljava> Okay, desktop 64-bit install drops to a shell.
[20:12] <astraljava> charlie-tca: I see where you were coming from when deciding not to do alpha-2. :D
[20:12] <astraljava> No wait!
[20:12]  * Unit193 invites astraljava to #xubuntu-offtopic 
[20:13] <charlie-tca> no, we are doing alpha2
[20:13] <charlie-tca> mythbuntu and kubuntu decided against it, though
[20:13] <charlie-tca> At what point did it drop?
[20:14] <astraljava> Sorry, it continued after quite some while showing just a ubuntu@ubuntu: prompt in a shell. It's going now.
[20:14] <pleia2> just let me know when we have text for alpha2 announcement and I'll make sure it gets on the site tomorrow
[20:14] <charlie-tca> I have ubuntustudio 386 and 64 both running installs 
[20:14] <charlie-tca> pleia2: email it to you?
[20:14] <pleia2> charlie-tca: sure, lyz@ubuntu.com
[20:14] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Did you choose any of the suites when asking what to install?
[20:15] <charlie-tca> I have the draft already
[20:15] <pleia2> charlie-tca: oh great
[20:15] <charlie-tca> astraljava: it didn't ask yet
[20:15] <pleia2> I'm on california time so it won't be put up super early, but it'll get up some time tomorrow :)
[20:15] <charlie-tca> We will have pity on those who skip the release notes, at least until they file duplicate bugs 
[20:15] <astraljava> charlie-tca: It failed for me when I chose them all.
[20:16] <astraljava> Haha!
[20:16] <charlie-tca> Oh, I usually just pick the first one
[20:51] <Unit193> I guess I'll have to run more today. CDs the same?
[20:53] <charlie-tca> same as yesterday, yes
[20:53] <Unit193> I guess that was a stupid question...
[20:54] <charlie-tca> nope
[20:54] <charlie-tca> start reading the motu documentation on the wiki
[20:54] <charlie-tca> !motu
[20:54] <charlie-tca> oh, never mind
[20:54] <charlie-tca> that was the wrong answer, though
[20:56] <astraljava> Becoming a MOTU isn't a bad thing, but isn't necessarily a main target for a tester. :)
[20:57] <Unit193> Yep! I'm going for testing and support (Support more on #lubuntu because there are less people to see me being stupid :P )
[20:57] <charlie-tca> yeah
[20:57] <charlie-tca> Oh, com'n. Just watch me, and then you won't even worry about that part
[20:57] <Unit193> Making packages doesn't sound all that easy
[20:59] <charlie-tca> I don't make any, but I do make some dandy mistakes
[20:59] <charlie-tca> That's what I get for scrolling back a long way to find things
[21:40] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Want me to still update the spreadsheet while reporting to iso.qa.u.c ?
[21:44] <astraljava> How does the testing procedure go now, that you can install updates while the installation is happening? I mean, what do we do to ensure the installation is flawless?
[21:44] <Unit193> I do updates after and depends on the 3rd party stuff
[21:46] <Unit193> knome: I guess I can close that PM with you ;)
[21:46] <charlie-tca> What happens is that the updates are downloaded during the install. They are not actually installed until you run update manager after the restart
[21:47] <charlie-tca> So we don't change the daily testing.
[21:47] <charlie-tca> You can update the spreadsheet if you want to. Otherwise, we will simply count those days as iso testing days
[21:48] <astraljava> Okay, thanks!
[21:48] <astraljava> Kinda weird, though. Why is the workflow like that?
[21:49] <charlie-tca> which workflow like what?
[21:49] <charlie-tca> I am confused again... 
[21:49] <Unit193> Kinda sad that you don't get points for testing :P
[22:02] <astraljava> charlie-tca: I mean why are the updates downloaded _while_ installing, if they are not applied at the time, though?
[22:03] <charlie-tca> Saves time, since it can download them while doing other stuff. When the user logs in the first time, instead of waiting minutes for them, they are immediately available to install
[22:03] <charlie-tca> Not all users will want them downloaded, though. Thus the "opt-in" option. Many places have data caps, and that can cost a user a lot of money
[22:04] <charlie-tca> Also gives the user a chance to view them, and decide if they really want to install them.
[22:09] <charlie-tca> plantoschka: sent the reply to the notes. Really hope you can make what I added sound right?
[22:10] <charlie-tca> Whatever you do to it will be the final now. I will be getting it into pleia2 for the release tomorrow
[22:10] <plantoschka> i'll look at it right now
[22:11] <charlie-tca> I have made the changes to the TechnicalOverview too, so that is finished
[22:12] <plantoschka> great
[22:16] <GridCube> :D My work interview went awesome :D im now a real librarian!
[22:16] <astraljava> But if the user has data caps, it will bite him/her in the 4$$ at some point anyhow.
[22:16] <pleia2> GridCube: congrats!
[22:16] <GridCube> :D thank you
[22:16] <astraljava> GridCube: Excellent! Conga-rats! :D
[22:16] <GridCube> :D
[22:16] <Unit193> GridCube: Have fun with the funny people! ;)
[22:16] <GridCube> i will have money now!
[22:16] <Unit193> pleia2: And congrats to you too since I seemed to miss that >_>
[22:16] <pleia2> Unit193: thanks! :)
[22:16] <GridCube> yeah i will be on the reference desk so ill be answering people information needs, much like hanging on #xubuntu tho XD
[22:16] <ochosi> what happened, why is everybody congratulating each other? :)
[22:16] <pleia2> ochosi: I got engaged :)
[22:16] <ochosi> pleia2: woohoo! congrats!
[22:16] <charlie-tca> well, let's see
[22:16] <pleia2> thanks
[22:16] <charlie-tca> pleia2 got engaged, GridCube got a job as a real librarian, which is his chosen career, astraljava did a lot of testing, plantoschka wrote the news release for alpha2 and did a really good job on it
[22:16] <charlie-tca> and Unit193 is happy?
[22:16] <pleia2> woohoo everyone!
[22:16] <pleia2> and charlie-tca is a master cat herder :)
[22:16] <GridCube> \o/
[22:17]  * Unit193 has to get files off an XP install that just went deactivated... Using Xubuntu!
[22:20] <plantoschka> congrats pleia2 
[22:20] <charlie-tca> not easy keeping all things in my poor brain
[22:25] <astraljava> Haha! Top that with a new job and a new town for yours truly. :)
[22:25] <astraljava> Though I'm not so sure that's anything to congratulate for, but don't tell that to jussi. :D
[22:27] <plantoschka> charlie-tca, i added your notes but changed a little bit ;-) hope you like it
[22:28] <plantoschka> mabye it's better to say best xubuntu release yet, don't know ;)
[22:28] <charlie-tca> That's what I hoped for. Oh, I forgot, we want an exciting headline for these things, too. You know, like "What a great milestone Xubuntu released today!" or some such thing
[22:28] <charlie-tca> I know what I want, I just don't have the right words
[22:30] <plantoschka> is it insure or ensure? I'm not sure :-D
[22:30] <charlie-tca> plantoschka: That's it! it looks good to me
[22:30] <plantoschka> yeah thanks, I'm thinking of a headline..
[22:32] <plantoschka> "What a great milestone Xubuntu released today!" --- a little too much for an alpha release? 
[22:33] <plantoschka> maybe: "Another great milestone reached: Xubuntu 11.10 Oneiric Ocelot Alpha 2 released"
[22:35] <plantoschka> or: "The next milestone for the great Xubuntu 11.10 release is done. Alpha 2 is out"
[22:43] <charlie-tca> yeah, something like that!
[22:43] <charlie-tca> pleia2: which one do you like?
[22:44] <pleia2> "Another great milestone reached...
[22:44] <GridCube> i like the maybe: one, not the or: one
[22:44] <pleia2> GridCube: yeah, that :)
[22:45] <astraljava> plantoschka: Ensure.
[22:46] <charlie-tca> n it's way
[22:46] <charlie-tca> On it's way
[22:46] <plantoschka> ok don't forget to fix that charlie-tca  ;) (Ensure)
[22:47] <pleia2> charlie-tca: thanks!
[22:47] <charlie-tca> pleia2: fix please? need to change insure to ensure
[22:47] <charlie-tca> Thanks, plantoschka 
[22:48] <charlie-tca> and many thanks to astraljava, GridCube, and Unit193 for testing
[22:49] <GridCube> :) i did one really late, no xubuntu session was sad :(
[22:49] <pleia2> charlie-tca: will do
[22:49] <GridCube> and i also got a question i wanted to do to ochosi but now i can't remember it no matter what
[22:50] <plantoschka> think in 2 weeks i can also do some testing ;) after i've finished my exams 
[22:54] <charlie-tca> This is a tough release to make happen. So many changes happening, lots of stuff breaking
[22:55] <plantoschka> maybe i do an youtube video of alpha 2 tomorrow
[22:55] <Unit193> Looks like I'll need to be testin gmore...
[22:55] <charlie-tca> That would be great!
[22:55] <knome> Unit193, heh sure, no hard feelings about closed irssi windows ;)
[22:55] <Unit193> knome: I should also get testing on that still...
[22:56] <knome> Unit193, no problem on that either :)
[23:03] <astraljava> charlie-tca: No need. Happy to help, it's a great way to do good for US at the same time. Considering it as two flies at one strike (or however the original goes). :D
[23:05] <charlie-tca> UM, I forgot... Upgrades to oneiric are failing too for Xubuntu :(
[23:07] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Damn. Yeah, gotta take up those on the list of things to do.
[23:07] <charlie-tca> Well, I guess one little mistake is okay ;)
[23:08] <astraljava> GridCube: What's that about no xubuntu session?
[23:08] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Define little. :D
[23:08] <GridCube> if you choose the "xubuntu session" you get a standard and broken xfce session
[23:09] <charlie-tca> little, tiny, small as can be ? I mean, it is just one tiny thing... upgrades are broken completely
[23:09] <charlie-tca> GridCube: that's really a Xubuntu session, it just has a few wrong things from Xfce in it
[23:09] <GridCube> oh
[23:13] <Unit193> I may be able to run that wubi one in my XP VM...
[23:13] <charlie-tca> wubi don't work in virtual machines, as far as I know
[23:14] <knome> i suppose there is no reason to use wubi under VM, that's why...
[23:15] <Unit193> I wouldn't touch wubi with a long pole
[23:16] <Unit193> Outside a VM that is. I haven't heard anything good about it...
[23:17] <knome> i suppose it's a slight step towards those who are afraid of switching from windows to linux, and i think it's good
[23:17] <knome> too bad wubi is so bad that many get bad first experiences...
[23:20] <astraljava> charlie-tca: I don't get it. Upgrades are broken? How, exactly? Are you talking about "dist-upgrading", or just updates to oneiric since the spinning of images?
[23:21] <charlie-tca> upgrade from natty to oneiric fails
[23:21] <astraljava> knome: Unit193: How exactly is it bad? I've used it only once, and by accident, and not for longer than 5 minutes. :)
[23:21] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Okay.
[23:22] <knome> astraljava, my experiences are that stuff doesn't work under it. never used it myself, though...
[23:23] <charlie-tca> It installs linux as a windows application, and you can remove it using windows add/remove programs. Unfortunately, it is not made to be permanent, and people try to upgrade it to the newest release. 
[23:24] <charlie-tca> That causes a lot of issues, since it won't work
[23:24] <astraljava> Gotcha.
[23:24] <astraljava> Yeah, after the initial install, it seemed to provide a mostly-functional environment.
[23:25] <charlie-tca> yes, but it is not supposed to be a permanent thing. It really is designed as " try this" 
[23:25] <astraljava> But then I realized the limited space that it got, decided to swim against the company policy current, and installed it as a native OS. :D
[23:26] <GridCube> jejeje
[23:26] <GridCube> XD
[23:26] <astraljava> Not as tough an experience as the first time I installed ubuntu, though. This was in January '05. Wiped the whole hard disk clean. *oops*
[23:26] <astraljava> Mind you, it was a company laptop, too.
[23:27] <astraljava> But enough of OT.
[23:27] <GridCube> if things work properly then no one has to know
[23:28] <astraljava> Well, I really like that Xubuntu (Oneiric) really reboots or shuts down when I tell it to, from the menu. Which can't be said from the vanilla ubuntu.
[23:29] <astraljava> Didn't spot any problems, which is to say the first boot was fine, updates installed (though were downloaded during initial installation), reboot was successful, and it logged into both sessions.
[23:29] <GridCube> i dont like the "wait 30 seconds" thing
[23:29] <astraljava> Don't have to, if you hit the button.
[23:29] <GridCube> yep if you take the long route
[23:30] <GridCube> and also the fast shutdown menu is in the same place that the xlose window button
[23:33] <charlie-tca> GridCube: just add action buttons to the panel, and remove session menu
[23:35] <GridCube> http://imagebin.org/161843
[23:38] <astraljava> Wha?! That's not _at all_ how it looked for me.
[23:38] <charlie-tca> lol
[23:39] <charlie-tca> Have you got a vpn running, or ssh into something, or logged into a tty, or maybe an external storage thing?
[23:39] <GridCube> me?
[23:39] <ochosi> GridCube: in case you remember your question you can always ping me (even if i'm not here) and i'll read it in the backlog
[23:39] <charlie-tca> ochosi: GridCube is not allowed to shutdown from Xubuntu?
[23:39] <GridCube> yes ochosi, i know it was a silly thing
[23:40] <GridCube> no from earlier charlie-tca 
[23:40] <ochosi> not allowed to shutdown?
[23:40] <ochosi> ok
[23:40] <charlie-tca> it's working now?
[23:40] <charlie-tca> That's different, anyway!
[23:41]  * GridCube wants to clarify that ochosi is talking about something i said on this channel earlier, now we are talking about shutting down alpha 2
[23:41] <ochosi> righty, well anyway, you can also PM me, don't wanna disturb your conversation
[23:42] <GridCube> D: now it works!
[23:42] <GridCube> i dont understand
[23:42] <charlie-tca> disturb, I need a break anyway