| KM0201 | phillw: not really sure what was wrong, but it's working now. | 00:25 |
|---|---|---|
| KM0201 | i just put my key in, so we'll see how it goes | 00:25 |
| zkriesse | hallo all | 00:37 |
| linuxman410 | -i have noticed with lubuntu 11.04 has to have at least 384 ram to install i have tried on 4 different machines | 00:41 |
| Unit193 | linuxman410: Did you follow the directions for a mini install? | 00:44 |
| linuxman410 | Unit193 no i just booted cd | 00:45 |
| Unit193 | linuxman410: Then you are correct, you need about 256 for LiveCD (Maybe closer to 384...) otherwise: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/DocumentationHelp/MinimalInstall | 00:46 |
| KM0201 | linuxman410: live cd's are always ram heavy... frankly 384 is pretty good... I think ubuntu says the live cd shouldn't be used w/ less than 1gig | 00:49 |
| linuxman410 | KM0201 that is why i use lubuntu instead of ubuntu | 00:50 |
| Unit193 | KM0201: Not quite... "If you have less than 160MB RAM (or 192 MB if it is 'shared graphics') you cannot use the graphical installation" | 00:50 |
| KM0201 | linuxman410: :) i just use lxde cuz it's so simple looking its sexy | 00:50 |
| KM0201 | Unit193: that's not realistic though.. i've tried to boot the 11.04 (ubuntu) live cd w/ 256mb of Ram, and a separate 64mb video card, and it was not usable, not to mention the installer crashed halfway through | 00:51 |
| linuxman410 | KM0201 i use it cause it is not a ram hog like ubuntu and xubuntu and to me lubuntu is greatest os ever | 00:52 |
| KM0201 | linuxman410: no argument from me | 00:52 |
| Unit193 | KM0201: I don't remember doing a 256 install (But I may as well try...), but I know just under 512 will work. Lubuntu is a great OS! | 00:54 |
| KM0201 | Unit193: i don't doubt Lubuntu will work(never tried it... my problem was with Ubuntu 11.04.. ie, unity) | 00:55 |
| linuxman410 | KM0201 i just used spare parts and built another desktop for lubuntu xp1700 processor and 384 ram and 20 gig harddrive and onboard graphics and sound and ethernet | 00:56 |
| KM0201 | linuxman410: slick | 00:57 |
| silverarrow | cool | 00:57 |
| KM0201 | lowest system i've put it on so far, is 512.. and it worked fine | 00:58 |
| silverarrow | I'm still on the look for a lighweigh computer | 00:58 |
| silverarrow | very few are really light weigh | 00:58 |
| KM0201 | silverarrow: seriously.. pawn shops | 00:58 |
| KM0201 | you look, and know what you're looking for... you can get them cheap | 00:58 |
| silverarrow | yeah, maybe | 00:58 |
| linuxman410 | silverarrow are you7 in us | 00:59 |
| silverarrow | no lol | 00:59 |
| silverarrow | no pawnshops, but I might fine one used | 00:59 |
| KM0201 | when people couldn't run Vista on their XP machines, i picked up like 5 PC's from pawn shops.. no displays, but w/ keyboards, mice and speakers, for like $75 bucks... just cuz they couldn't run vista. | 00:59 |
| linuxman410 | silverarrow where are you at | 00:59 |
| silverarrow | norway | 00:59 |
| KM0201 | $75/ea | 00:59 |
| linuxman410 | wow | 00:59 |
| silverarrow | I only need one | 01:00 |
| silverarrow | I was thinking about a new one really | 01:00 |
| KM0201 | silverarrow: i went through them, nuked them, and put ubuntu on them and gave them to a couple friends | 01:00 |
| linuxman410 | KM0201 i pick them up on side of road people set out their old pc's on the curb around here | 01:00 |
| silverarrow | linux can be such a hazle on some laptops | 01:00 |
| silverarrow | lol | 01:01 |
| KM0201 | silverarrow: yup, but if you pay attention when shopping (ie, know what hardware linux works well with, and doesn't work well with)... you can do fine on laptops to. | 01:01 |
| linuxman410 | silverarrow i have lubuntu on p3 laptop with 512 ram and wireless card | 01:02 |
| silverarrow | sounds promising | 01:02 |
| silverarrow | there are some really nice thing ones these days | 01:04 |
| silverarrow | I just need to check if they run linux of some kind all right | 01:04 |
| KM0201 | my lowest machine its on, is a 1.3ghz AMD (can't remember exactly which one) 512MB of ram, 64mb AGP Nvidia video card, 40gig hard drive. | 01:04 |
| linuxman410 | i have gave away 49 computers with linux but i had to stop using ubuntu specs went too high | 01:05 |
| silverarrow | yes, totemplayer got really big | 01:05 |
| silverarrow | but good one some computers | 01:05 |
| KM0201 | linuxman410: i thought about burning some lubuntu 11.04 CD's, and writing on them "Free Windows 7 install" and putting instructions in the cd envelope to install "Windows 7"... :) | 01:06 |
| KM0201 | a clean install of course | 01:06 |
| KM0201 | lol | 01:06 |
| silverarrow | lol | 01:06 |
| linuxman410 | fedora messed up their lxde install now it requires 640 megs of ram to install fedora lxde | 01:07 |
| silverarrow | most computers have at least 1 or 2 GB ram, even the older ones? | 01:08 |
| KM0201 | silverarrow: that is actually a friends PC, i suggested getting 2x512 of ebay (would probably run like $30 brand new).. but she seems content w/ it at 512.. go figure. | 01:09 |
| silverarrow | I never discovered the advantages with fedora, | 01:09 |
| KM0201 | it only has 2 ram slots. | 01:09 |
| linuxman410 | silverarrow my old ones have between 384 and 512 | 01:09 |
| silverarrow | yeah, it's not that long ago since the white ibooks came with 512 MB ram really | 01:10 |
| silverarrow | apple was really slow to increase hard ware capacity | 01:11 |
| silverarrow | it's fun to mess with old computers | 01:13 |
| KM0201 | yup | 01:13 |
| silverarrow | especially when you get them to work | 01:14 |
| silverarrow | I fixed an old laptop, needed new hard drive, | 01:14 |
| silverarrow | I needed an extra workstation | 01:14 |
| silverarrow | RAM is luckily often cheap on older computers | 01:14 |
| KM0201 | unless you're unlucky enough to get a machine w/ rambus ram | 01:27 |
| linuxman410 | KM0201 i have a rambus machine | 01:30 |
| KM0201 | linuxman410: yeah, you mentioned that the other day. | 01:30 |
| KM0201 | not i said the fly... i stayed away from rambus.. saw the writing on the wall w/ that one | 01:30 |
| linuxman410 | KM0201 it is a old dell | 01:31 |
| linuxman410 | KM0201 socket 423 pentium 4 1.5 | 01:32 |
| KM0201 | linuxman410: i had some fun just a minute ago, remoted my dads ubuntu box, and this is his new screensaver, i'm waiting on a phone call.. http://imagebin.org/161859 | 01:32 |
| linuxman410 | KM0201 does your dad use windows | 01:34 |
| KM0201 | no | 01:34 |
| KM0201 | lol | 01:34 |
| KM0201 | but he won't know the difference | 01:34 |
| KM0201 | he does know about blue screens though, cuz he used to have windows | 01:35 |
| linuxman410 | KM0201 how did you remote into his machine | 01:35 |
| KM0201 | cuz its set up fo rme to have remote access to it (i keep it updated, etc..) | 01:35 |
| linuxman410 | KM0201 if u remote into another machine can u run the programs on the other machine and move the mouse cursor and such | 01:36 |
| KM0201 | yes | 01:36 |
| linuxman410 | cool | 01:36 |
| KM0201 | it's not difficult at all to set up. | 01:36 |
| linuxman410 | KM0201 can lubuntu reote | 01:37 |
| linuxman410 | remote | 01:37 |
| KM0201 | linuxman410: he just leaves his machine on, i log into my accoun ton his computer (since his has no admin capabilities).. and update/upgrade, etc.. | 01:37 |
| KM0201 | linuxman410: of course | 01:38 |
| linuxman410 | well been a nice chat i need to go to store later | 01:38 |
| phillw | KM0201: well, you could make it worse..... http://work.failblog.org/2011/03/23/job-fails-lol-i-use-linux/ not that I would ever advise any of them :) | 01:44 |
| KM0201 | phillw: hehe... trust me, the one i put on ther ewill send him into a panic. | 01:45 |
| KM0201 | lol | 01:45 |
| phillw | KM0201: they do have some extra, really nasty, tricks :P | 01:46 |
| KM0201 | :) | 01:46 |
| blargh1 | I'm having a pretty hard time using fglrx while having python-pyopencl installed | 04:55 |
| blargh1 | python-pyopencl has nvidia-current as a dependency from what I can tell that completely breaks fglrx | 04:55 |
| bioterror | but you have ATI? | 04:57 |
| blargh1 | yes | 04:57 |
| blargh1 | radeon hd 6870; doesn't matter what method I use to install fglrx either, repo, making my own .deb or installing straight from script | 04:58 |
| KM0201 | ati strikes aain | 05:04 |
| KM0201 | *again | 05:04 |
| blargh1 | seems more like nvidia to me; nvidia-current completely clobbers fglrx | 05:04 |
| blargh1 | even removing nvidia-current I saw it deleting /etc/ati | 05:04 |
| KM0201 | blargh1: why are you installing nvidia-current, if you have an ati device? | 05:05 |
| blargh1 | 00:55 blargh1 | python-pyopencl has nvidia-current as a dependency | 05:05 |
| KM0201 | bioterror: is there a way to put the trashcan in the panel? | 05:06 |
| KM0201 | blargh1: hmm, that is weird, never heard of that | 05:07 |
| blargh1 | yeah building pyopencl from source now, hopefully this should work, since I don't actually need nvidia-current to build it | 05:09 |
| bioterror | KM0201, no, it needs application | 05:12 |
| bioterror | and the desktop trashcan is also rather ":D" | 05:12 |
| bioterror | but now breakfast and the off to pickup my htpc case | 05:13 |
| KM0201 | yea.. | 05:13 |
| blargh1 | installing pyopencl from source worked like a charm | 05:13 |
| KM0201 | have fun | 05:13 |
| blargh1 | should I file a bug somewhere? | 05:14 |
| bioterror | blargh1, launchpad.net | 05:38 |
| phillw | jmarsden: are you about? | 08:53 |
| Fudge | ello | 09:05 |
| Fudge | glad you guys are on the go, with unity taking over for ubuntu | 09:06 |
| phillw | I'm sure unity will be fine when they are finished with it :P | 09:16 |
| head_victim | I'd be happy with Unity once they add in a bit of customisation which I believe they're working on | 09:18 |
| phillw | it should all be done for 12.04 :) | 09:19 |
| silverarrow | hi | 09:56 |
| silverarrow | does anyone know about chaning hardware ? | 09:56 |
| silverarrow | If I get a DVD rom with burner, for an old laptop that only had DVD/CD player, would it work in lubuntu right away? | 09:57 |
| silverarrow | I don't know minimal specs for a burner really | 09:57 |
| silverarrow | very demanding in CPU and RAM? | 09:57 |
| silverarrow | so no one here in summer? | 10:07 |
| silverarrow | everybody at the beach? | 10:07 |
| silverarrow | not bringing laptop and mobile network | 10:07 |
| silverarrow | ;- ) | 10:07 |
| Archdevil | i have a crt monitor and lubuntu 11.04 sees it as 1280x1024. I want to set it to 1024x768. How can i do this? | 10:36 |
| Fudge | yes | 13:12 |
| dzone | join #ubuntu | 17:06 |
| xbo333 | hello | 17:10 |
| xbo333 | can i have some help please? | 17:10 |
| bioterror | what kind of | 17:11 |
| xbo333 | i'm trying to install lubuntu on my old computer Compaq Evo | 17:11 |
| xbo333 | and when i came to the command line "sudo add-apt-repository ppa:lubuntu-desktop/ppa" it gives me an error | 17:12 |
| bioterror | you're installing 10.04? | 17:12 |
| KM0201 | are you connected to the internet? | 17:12 |
| xbo333 | yes i was | 17:12 |
| bioterror | xbo333, you should tell us the error | 17:12 |
| bioterror | helps us to help you | 17:12 |
| xbo333 | then could you hang on for a few minutes, i only have one ethernet cable so i have to switch it to the computer where i'm installing lubuntu ;) brb | 17:14 |
| KM0201 | xbo333: yeah.. go ahead and switch | 17:16 |
| KM0201 | of course then the question becomes, how is he gonna talk here..lol | 17:17 |
| xbo333 | i'm back | 17:19 |
| xbo333 | it gave me this error :"Error reading https://launchpad.net/api/1.0/~lubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppt: HTTP Error 404: Not found" | 17:19 |
| xbo333 | bioterror: still there? | 17:20 |
| GTRsdk | xbo333, have you tried 11.04? | 17:21 |
| bioterror | yes | 17:21 |
| bioterror | hmmm | 17:22 |
| xbo333 | i've downloaded my mini linux version from here http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/ | 17:23 |
| xbo333 | i guess i'm going to spend 3 new hours installing the 11.04 | 17:23 |
| KM0201 | why would it take you 3hrs? | 17:24 |
| bioterror | xbo333, what kind of cpu you have | 17:24 |
| bioterror | in your EVO | 17:24 |
| xbo333 | no really 3 hours but it took me really long so... Any chance it'll work with the 10.04 ? | 17:25 |
| KM0201 | xbo333> it gave me this error :"Error reading https://launchpad.net/api/1.0/~lubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppt: HTTP Error 404: Not found" is it just me, or should that be "ppa" not "ppt" on the end | 17:25 |
| bioterror | ppa | 17:26 |
| xbo333 | i'm going to try with the ppa , i'll be right back | 17:26 |
| KM0201 | bioterror: are you saying it should have been ppa? | 17:33 |
| bioterror | it should have been ppa | 17:34 |
| bioterror | https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa | 17:35 |
| bioterror | but now I'm off to show off with my peacemaker, laters ;) | 17:35 |
| KM0201 | ok. | 17:36 |
| KM0201 | your peacemaker? | 17:36 |
| KM0201 | you're a gun guy? | 17:36 |
| KM0201 | bioterror: are you a gun guy? (you can answer when you get back, i'm curious) | 17:37 |
| phixxor | hey you guys | 17:37 |
| KM0201 | phixxor: sup | 17:37 |
| phixxor | if I want the most stable system, is it recommended I install 10.04 or 11.04? | 17:38 |
| KM0201 | phixxor: 11.04 and 10.04 are stable.. LTS has nothing to do w/ stability, it has to do w/ length of support... if you';re not on a production environment or a server, i would install 11.04 | 17:38 |
| phixxor | ok great | 17:39 |
| KM0201 | phixxor: average home user.. 11.04 is definitely what i recommend... unless there is a specific reason for LTS> | 17:39 |
| xbo | thank you all ;) it worked well :p i'm sending this from my new lubuntu system :D | 17:51 |
| === xbo is now known as xbo333 | ||
| KM0201 | xbo333: thats great.. so it was the ppt thing? | 17:52 |
| xbo333 | yes | 17:52 |
| KM0201 | great | 17:52 |
| xbo333 | maybee i took the bad habit of using windowsand his ppt files ^ | 17:52 |
| KM0201 | it's ok, typos happen, that one was just throwing a wrench in your progress | 17:53 |
| xbo333 | since i'm a new user i've some basic question: do i need to install an antivirus of it's not necessary? if it is which one works good and does'nt use to much cpu? | 17:55 |
| KM0201 | the only scenario that you would need antivirus in, is if you want to scan files, etc.. because you will be giving them to windows suers, and don't want to unknowingly pass it on to them | 17:56 |
| KM0201 | xbo333: i email you something that has a virus... it doesnt effect you, because you're a linux user, however, you want to forward that email to some of your windows friends... in tha tcase, you would want to scan any attatchments on that email, w/ a virus scanner, to make sure the windows recipients don't end up infected | 17:58 |
| xbo333 | ok :) | 17:59 |
| AmberJ | Bitdefender and avast on linux are both free for home use. | 17:59 |
| KM0201 | yeah.. | 17:59 |
| AmberJ | There's clamav too. | 17:59 |
| KM0201 | yeah, but clam sucks | 17:59 |
| KM0201 | avast.. is actually really easy to use w/ Linux.. and i started testing Bitdefender yesterday | 18:00 |
| KM0201 | had a little issu einstalling it.. (for some reason).. but after a reinstall, all went well. | 18:00 |
| xbo333 | i was already using avast on windows then i guess i keep on with it since i was satisfied :) | 18:00 |
| KM0201 | xbo333: the linux version is quite a bit different... it doesn't run unless you start it (cuz you don't really need it to) | 18:01 |
| xbo333 | ok | 18:01 |
| KM0201 | only time i use linux antivirus.. is fixing a windows PC... boot live cd, install avast, update avast, scan windows hard drive from live cd. | 18:01 |
| KM0201 | xbo333: if you';re not planning on doing the above, i wouldn't waste my time. | 18:02 |
| xbo333 | and for watching for example streamed videos, i guess i need to install the flash plug in one chromium... | 18:02 |
| KM0201 | xbo333: um, sudo apt-get install lubuntu-restricted-extras that should install all codecs, etc.. for you | 18:03 |
| xbo333 | KM0201: on doing what above? | 18:03 |
| KM0201 | if you're not planning on acting as a file server to windows users, or gonna be doing a lot of file sharing w/ windows users, i wouldn't worry about installing antivirus on linux | 18:04 |
| KM0201 | unless you just want the capabilities. | 18:04 |
| xbo333 | i'm sorry my birth language is french so sometimes i've some difficulties understanding everything | 18:05 |
| xbo333 | ok ok :) | 18:05 |
| xbo333 | no i won't use it as a server :) | 18:05 |
| KM0201 | xbo333: how often do you plan on sharing files w/ windows users? | 18:05 |
| KM0201 | i guess its not like you can't install av, and if it ever comes up you need it, its there. | 18:06 |
| xbo333 | i think i'm gonna install it since i'm planning on using torrent files | 18:06 |
| KM0201 | xbo333: probably a good idea, especially if you're gnna share whatever you download, w/ 'doze users | 18:07 |
| xbo333 | can i download the linux version on the avast website? | 18:07 |
| KM0201 | yes | 18:07 |
| KM0201 | then i think you can just use your windows activation key for avast, on your linux version (assuming you still have it)... | 18:07 |
| KM0201 | xbo333: http://www.avast.com/linux-home-edition | 18:08 |
| xbo333 | what's the difference between the 3 packages proposed | 18:09 |
| xbo333 | *? | 18:09 |
| KM0201 | hold on | 18:10 |
| KM0201 | RPM package -- is for Red Hat Distros... DEB -- is for Debian Distros (this is the one you want)... TAR.GZ --- is to compile from source | 18:11 |
| xbo333 | ok | 18:11 |
| KM0201 | xbo333: download the deb file, and just click it, and it will open up dpkg, then click install | 18:12 |
| xbo333 | and about the "sudo apt-get install lubuntu-restricted-extras" where can i type it to download all the codecs? | 18:12 |
| KM0201 | xbo333: in the terminal | 18:13 |
| KM0201 | sorry, should have told you that | 18:13 |
| xbo333 | where can i find it? | 18:14 |
| KM0201 | find.. the terminal? | 18:14 |
| xbo333 | yes ^^ | 18:14 |
| KM0201 | click the menu, then accessories/LX terminal | 18:15 |
| xbo333 | ok | 18:15 |
| KM0201 | then when that comes up, type "sudo apt-get install lubuntu-restricted-extras | 18:15 |
| KM0201 | type your password (you won't see any **** lor ---- just type it and hit enter)... then watch in awe | 18:15 |
| xbo333 | it says that it cannot find the package | 18:18 |
| KM0201 | OK. | 18:18 |
| KM0201 | do this. | 18:18 |
| xbo333 | i'll be right back | 18:18 |
| KM0201 | ok. | 18:18 |
| xbo333 | i'm back | 18:20 |
| KM0201 | ok. | 18:20 |
| xbo333 | what should i do? | 18:21 |
| KM0201 | hang on a sec, i'm renewing my dads license plates (he's computer retarded) | 18:21 |
| KM0201 | ok | 18:22 |
| KM0201 | go to the menu, then system tools, then synaptic package manager | 18:22 |
| KM0201 | ok? | 18:22 |
| KM0201 | xbo333: ? | 18:23 |
| xbo333 | i don't have a synaptic package manager but i have | 18:23 |
| xbo333 | pcman file manager | 18:24 |
| KM0201 | no. | 18:24 |
| xbo333 | system profiler and benchmark | 18:24 |
| KM0201 | click your Menu (the thing that looks like a bird).. go to System Tools, then Synaptic Package manager | 18:24 |
| KM0201 | u should have it. | 18:24 |
| AmberJ | menu is the button on leftmost bottom corner of screen, xbo333 | 18:25 |
| KM0201 | yeah.. "looks like a bird"... :) | 18:25 |
| AmberJ | phillw, ping | 18:25 |
| xbo333 | i konow that but i only have 4 choices in the system tools | 18:25 |
| KM0201 | xbo333: ok | 18:25 |
| KM0201 | xbo333: open a terminal again | 18:26 |
| xbo333 | yes | 18:26 |
| * KM0201 could have swore that was installed by default.. | 18:26 | |
| KM0201 | xbo333: type this... sudo apt-get install synaptic | 18:26 |
| KM0201 | then type your password | 18:27 |
| xbo333 | it says that it is installed but i dont have it ... | 18:27 |
| xbo333 | maybee it has a different name in the franch version? | 18:28 |
| KM0201 | xbo333: hm, i don't think so | 18:28 |
| xbo333 | same thing as the task manager? | 18:28 |
| KM0201 | no | 18:28 |
| KM0201 | xbo333: in a terminal type this gksudo synaptic | 18:28 |
| xbo333 | Lecture des listes de paquets... Fait Construction de l'arbre des dépendances Lecture des informations d'état... Fait synaptic est déjà la plus récente version disponible. synaptic passé en « installé manuellement ». 0 mis à jour, 0 nouvellement installés, 0 à enlever et 3 non mis à jour. boris@boris:~$ | 18:29 |
| KM0201 | i don't know french, so that doesn't help | 18:29 |
| KM0201 | and don't paste long stuff like that, its annoying, use a pastebin if you must | 18:29 |
| xbo333 | it has open.... | 18:30 |
| KM0201 | ok. | 18:30 |
| KM0201 | in synaptic | 18:30 |
| KM0201 | go to Settings/Repositories | 18:30 |
| KM0201 | phillw: why isn't that in his menu? | 18:30 |
| KM0201 | xbo333: are yo in settings/repositories ? | 18:30 |
| xbo333 | i'm going to translate repositories in google see what it is in french | 18:31 |
| KM0201 | xbo333: why did you install in french, if you don't know french? | 18:31 |
| KM0201 | xbo333: you don't need a translation. | 18:31 |
| KM0201 | i'll tell you what you need to do.. this is point/click nonsense right now. | 18:31 |
| xbo333 | ok | 18:32 |
| AmberJ | select all checkboxes ;) | 18:33 |
| xbo333 | i know french but i'm not sure what repositories means | 18:33 |
| AmberJ | KM0201, I guess he wants to translate for us. | 18:33 |
| KM0201 | AmberJ: lol, | 18:33 |
| KM0201 | xbo333: its just an online places that keeps packages, don't worry about it. | 18:33 |
| KM0201 | xbo333: do you have the 'software sources' window open still? | 18:33 |
| KM0201 | me 's head hurts | 18:34 |
| * KM0201 's head hurts | 18:34 | |
| xbo333 | can you pause a minute.. | 18:34 |
| KM0201 | if i was gong any slower i'd be stopped | 18:34 |
| AmberJ | xbo333, willing to give it over teamviewer to someone over here? | 18:36 |
| KM0201 | AmberJ: if you don't know french, it might be tough | 18:36 |
| KM0201 | teamviewer is pretty slick though.. | 18:37 |
| KM0201 | i usually just set up a reverse VNC.. since that doesnt' require the otehr end to think | 18:37 |
| KM0201 | lol | 18:37 |
| AmberJ | we can open programs on our PC and see which icons/stuff we need to click and then click at that location in teamviewer | 18:37 |
| KM0201 | true. | 18:37 |
| xbo333 | found depositories | 18:40 |
| KM0201 | xbo333: ok.. on the first tab, Ubuntu software.. u see that? | 18:40 |
| xbo333 | yes | 18:41 |
| KM0201 | at the top, check all those boxes | 18:41 |
| KM0201 | (there's 5) | 18:41 |
| xbo333 | ok | 18:41 |
| KM0201 | now click the other software tab | 18:41 |
| xbo333 | ok | 18:41 |
| KM0201 | check all those boxes EXCEPT the CD (that will just prompt you to constantly insert a cd) | 18:41 |
| KM0201 | ok? | 18:42 |
| xbo333 | is it normal that i've 4 http links | 18:42 |
| KM0201 | yes | 18:42 |
| KM0201 | repository is an online place... so you gotta have links. | 18:42 |
| KM0201 | just check them all except the CD | 18:43 |
| xbo333 | wich is the CD ? | 18:43 |
| KM0201 | if its not there, don't worry about it | 18:43 |
| KM0201 | it says "CD Repository" | 18:43 |
| KM0201 | so if its not there, thats ok | 18:43 |
| xbo333 | ok | 18:44 |
| xbo333 | i clik on the 4 | 18:44 |
| KM0201 | after you do that | 18:44 |
| KM0201 | click close... | 18:44 |
| KM0201 | and you'll get a message that your source list needs reloaded | 18:44 |
| KM0201 | click Reload | 18:44 |
| xbo333 | ok | 18:44 |
| KM0201 | and give it a minute, it's gonna download a new index of available packages | 18:45 |
| xbo333 | done | 18:45 |
| KM0201 | AmberJ: can you think of any reason Synaptic didn't end up in his system tools menu? | 18:45 |
| KM0201 | xbo333: ok. | 18:45 |
| KM0201 | now... click "Search" and search for "lubuntu-restricted" | 18:45 |
| === meetingology` is now known as meetingology | ||
| KM0201 | xbo333: you should have gotten 2 results to that search | 18:47 |
| xbo333 | still searching | 18:47 |
| KM0201 | ok | 18:47 |
| KM0201 | did it finish? | 18:49 |
| KM0201 | shouldn't take that long, unless you're on a really really slow connection | 18:50 |
| AmberJ | KM0201, Well, I have no idea....localization (isn't this what translations are supposed to be called?) shouldnot mess up lxde settings... | 18:50 |
| KM0201 | AmberJ: exactly. | 18:50 |
| xbo333 | my connection is really good but my computer is really orld | 18:50 |
| KM0201 | ok | 18:50 |
| KM0201 | xbo333: if its really that old, i wouldn't count on it running youtube all that well | 18:51 |
| KM0201 | cuz that search should take 10sec tops, even on an old pc | 18:51 |
| AmberJ | xbo333, KM0201 is expecting a yes/no from you(?) | 18:52 |
| KM0201 | lol | 18:52 |
| KM0201 | well, he said the search was taking a long time, maybe he's still searching | 18:53 |
| xbo333 | i'ts a compaq evo pentium 4 130mo RAM , 1.4GHz with a 20Gb hard drive | 18:53 |
| xbo333 | 1 found | 18:53 |
| pmatulis | expected Lubuntu to be mentioned here, too bad: | 18:54 |
| pmatulis | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/TechnicalOverview | 18:54 |
| KM0201 | 130mb of ram? | 18:54 |
| xbo333 | KM0201: he found one result | 18:54 |
| KM0201 | holy smokes | 18:54 |
| KM0201 | 1? | 18:54 |
| xbo333 | yes | 18:55 |
| KM0201 | should've been two.. but ok.. right click that package and choose "mark for installation" | 18:55 |
| KM0201 | maybe its different on the french version. | 18:55 |
| xbo333 | actually he didn't find anything... | 18:58 |
| xbo333 | Can't find the "lubuntu-restricted" | 19:04 |
| KM0201 | did you use quotes? | 19:08 |
| KM0201 | don't put the quotes | 19:08 |
| xbo333 | i didin't use the quotes | 19:09 |
| xbo333 | don't bother ;) i will take the time to learn how to use it well and discover by myself :) | 19:09 |
| xbo333 | thank you again for all ;) | 19:10 |
| AmberJ | KM0201, maybe the packages name got translated too | 19:10 |
| Unit193 | xbo333: If you're ok with the terminal, you can search using apt-cache search restricted | 19:10 |
| AmberJ | *package | 19:11 |
| KM0201 | AmberJ: possible. | 19:11 |
| KM0201 | Unit193: he's got his system in french.. it's doing some weird things | 19:11 |
| AmberJ | xbo333, Press ALT+F2 | 19:11 |
| AmberJ | Type 'lxterminal' and press enter. | 19:11 |
| AmberJ | Then type: | 19:11 |
| Unit193 | Package name is package name | 19:11 |
| AmberJ | sudo apt-cache search lubuntu-restricted | 19:12 |
| AmberJ | It should show up two entries in output...paste them here | 19:12 |
| Unit193 | AmberJ: apt-cache doesn't need/require sudo | 19:12 |
| AmberJ | Unit193, I never noticed that...Thanks :) | 19:13 |
| AmberJ | Anyways, I'm off now. Over to you guys ;) | 19:13 |
| AmberJ | take care | 19:13 |
| xbo333 | thank you AmberJ | 19:13 |
| xbo333 | didn't find it | 19:14 |
| Unit193 | AmberJ: Have a good one and no problem | 19:14 |
| Unit193 | xbo333: Try apt-cache search lubuntu if that doesn't work, can you give us the error? Or better yet apt-cache search lubuntu |pastebinit | 19:17 |
| xbo333 | lubuntu-artwork - artwork for Lubuntu lubuntu-plymouth-theme - plymouth theme for Lubuntu blubuntu-look - Thème Blubuntu - meta-paquet blubuntu-session-splashes - Thème Blubuntu - Écrans de session blubuntu-theme - Thème Blubuntu - thème GTK+ et Metacity blubuntu-wallpapers - Thème Blubuntu - fonds d'écrans lubuntu-desktop - Lubuntu Desktop environment lubuntu-default-settings - default settings for Lubuntu | 19:18 |
| Unit193 | xbo333: Odd... When was the last time you did a sudo apt-get update ? | 19:19 |
| xbo333 | i installed lubuntu today... | 19:19 |
| Unit193 | xbo333: Try running that and see if you can pick it up after | 19:20 |
| xbo333 | then i guess i'll do the update rightaway | 19:20 |
| xbo333 | i've to leave, i'll work on that later ;) agagin thank you very much :) | 19:23 |
| xbo333 | *again | 19:24 |
| phillw | KM0201: ping | 19:31 |
| KM0201 | pong | 19:31 |
| KM0201 | :) | 19:31 |
| phillw | I installed bitdefender without any problems :/ | 19:31 |
| KM0201 | phillw: yeah... i pinged you earlier i think... i purged it, and then reinstalled, and it installe dperfectly, no problems | 19:31 |
| KM0201 | so idunno, somethin happened during my first install, clearly (what i don't know) | 19:32 |
| phillw | okies, I've been having internet problems here, running on backup device now :) | 19:32 |
| Unit193 | phillw: You can also go for Avira if you wish, but I don't know what exactly you were looking for | 19:32 |
| KM0201 | Unit193: it was just a discussion we were having yesterday. | 19:32 |
| KM0201 | "Protecting Windows Users from Windows" | 19:32 |
| phillw | There are several, we were discussing which seems the easiest for those not overly familiar wit scanning files to be transferred to windows users | 19:32 |
| KM0201 | i never tried avira. | 19:33 |
| KM0201 | but avast is very easy... and so is bit defender... usually if someone asks about linux antivirus, i suggest avast | 19:33 |
| phillw | I used clamav (and will be doing again) on the mail server that is due to be set up. That is what it is best for :) | 19:33 |
| Unit193 | I take it ClamAV and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Antivirus came up? | 19:34 |
| phillw | avast! is what I install on XP machines these days, as AVG seems to have an issue with them. | 19:34 |
| Unit193 | Avira is handy if you block that ad (And I find that easy to do) | 19:35 |
| KM0201 | Unit193: of course clamav came up. | 19:35 |
| KM0201 | but my experience w/ it, is it sucks | 19:35 |
| KM0201 | alwyas have a hard time updating it | 19:35 |
| phillw | bodhi_zazen: by the way, I tracked Derrick down! The payment for the new 10.04 LTS server will be accepted this time, so hopefully next week you can go and have a 'play' with it :) | 19:35 |
| phillw | KM0201: I never had a problem with the cron job... most odd :/ | 19:36 |
| KM0201 | my luck i guess.. :) | 19:36 |
| phillw | It has better behave as I'm installing http://flurdy.com/docs/postfix/ on the new server :) | 19:37 |
| phillw | I have to think of a uname for the new server... piglets-big-brother seems a bit of a mouthful ;) | 19:39 |
| Unit193 | uname? Hostname? | 19:40 |
| phillw | it's unix name for when on command line ;) | 19:40 |
| Unit193 | I use uname quite a bit, I have just never heard hostname called uname | 19:41 |
| phillw | most likely beacuse I'm lazy and when I get confused as to which system I'm on i type uname -a :P | 19:41 |
| Unit193 | Seems like it'll fit http://xkcd.com/910/ | 19:42 |
| bodhi_zazen | phillw: sweet =) | 19:42 |
| phillw | Unit193: Hmmm, Epidural :P | 19:43 |
| Archdevil | I made my brother-in-law a lubuntu-machine. He uses an old crt monitor, made for 1600x1200. lubuntu recognizes the correct resolution, but the fonts are very small. I can set the size of the fonts in the openbox settings, but on the live-cd, the menu font size does not change (in the windows). Does it change if you change it on an installed system and reboot? | 19:47 |
| KM0201 | hmm | 19:48 |
| KM0201 | where arey ou changing the fonts? | 19:48 |
| Archdevil | openbox configuration manager | 19:49 |
| KM0201 | Archdevil: well, i'm changing my fonts now, and its going normal. | 19:49 |
| Archdevil | I am installing lubuntu on a spare system now. I will test it there | 19:50 |
| KM0201 | it should work i would think | 19:50 |
| Archdevil | the menu's in the programs do not change font-size | 20:11 |
| bioterror | KM0201, sorry, I'm a bicycle guy ;) | 20:15 |
| KM0201 | bioterror: oh ok>>:) | 20:17 |
| bioterror | my interests are fixed gear bikes and turbo charged cars ;) | 20:17 |
| Archdevil | what brings you here then ;-) | 20:17 |
| KM0201 | never heard of a python bike (I was thinking colt python) | 20:17 |
| Archdevil | :-) | 20:18 |
| bioterror | :D | 20:18 |
| KM0201 | so what is a python?.. is that a bike, or a snake?..lol (i just saw you mention that earlier, and was curious) | 20:21 |
| Unit193 | Python is an interpreted language | 20:22 |
| KM0201 | lol | 20:22 |
| Archdevil | KM0201: problem solved. the openbox is one part of the font setting. The other part is in lxappearance | 20:56 |
| KM0201 | ah... ok | 20:56 |
| KM0201 | Unit193: is there a way to figure out a machines host name? | 21:04 |
| Unit193 | uaname -a or hostname in the terminal | 21:05 |
| Unit193 | ...Or just look at the username@hostname in terminal | 21:05 |
| KM0201 | yeah, what about workgroup? | 21:06 |
| KM0201 | i'm trying to configure samba, not having much luck | 21:06 |
| KM0201 | or does that one even matter? | 21:06 |
| bioterror | you create that workgroup | 21:07 |
| bioterror | my workgroup is SAPPORO | 21:07 |
| bioterror | as all my computers are machine.sapporo ;) | 21:08 |
| KM0201 | hmm | 21:08 |
| KM0201 | well i just left it default as MSHome | 21:09 |
| KM0201 | man this is weird, i've never had a problem w/ this before | 21:26 |
| KM0201 | this is weird, i never had this prob w/ ubuntu.... phillw or bioterror do you guys know where there's like a generic samba.conf between two linux boxes, so i can see what i'm doing wrong? | 21:30 |
| phillw | KM0201: the only thing I can find, that may even be remotely applicable is http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1746055 I don't use samba, so I am really the wrong person to ask! | 21:34 |
| KM0201 | phillw: oh ok.. do you share between two lubuntu desktops? | 21:36 |
| KM0201 | thought maybe there was a tool other than samba | 21:36 |
| phillw | KM0201: soz, no I use Virtual Machines on the same computer | 21:38 |
| KM0201 | oh ok. | 21:39 |
| lubun | whats the best music player? rhythmbox? Banshee? | 22:44 |
| KM0201 | lubun: i like audacious. | 22:44 |
| KM0201 | but there really is no "best" | 22:44 |
| KM0201 | it really depends on what you want.. do you want a full featured, itunes like player.. then you'd want banshee or rhythmbox | 22:44 |
| KM0201 | or do you just want a small program that plays mp3s? audacious is it. | 22:45 |
| lubun | ok thats what i need | 22:45 |
| lubun | the banshee | 22:45 |
| lubun | or rythm | 22:45 |
| KM0201 | yeah, if thats what you want | 22:45 |
| KM0201 | ilike rhythmbox | 22:45 |
| lubun | when a program says ubuntu or mentions gnome can i use that with this version of ubuntu? | 22:46 |
| lubun | because rhythmbox says its a music player for gnome | 22:47 |
| KM0201 | lubun: yes.. but.. | 22:47 |
| KM0201 | the first time you install a gnome app, it's gonna install some gnome dependencies.. after that though, you wont have to install those dependencies again | 22:48 |
| lubun | oh ok. | 22:48 |
| KM0201 | so the first gnome dependent app you install, it may at first look like its installing a lot of dependencies, and it may be.. but after that, you reallly won't notice it again | 22:48 |
| lubun | KM0201: Do i have to install all the other packages? dev, dbg, plugins, ampache, or are those optional? | 22:49 |
| lubun | alot of programs have that | 22:49 |
| KM0201 | lubun: if it has them as a dependency, you have to install them. | 22:50 |
| KM0201 | lubun: when you sudo apt-get install rhythmbox it'll list them as either required, or recommended | 22:50 |
| KM0201 | required, is.. well, required | 22:50 |
| lubun | KM0201: it doesnt do them auto? | 22:50 |
| KM0201 | no, it does. | 22:50 |
| KM0201 | sorry.. | 22:51 |
| Unit193 | You can also get less things to install if you use (for example) sudo apt-get install rhythmbox --no-install-recommends | 22:51 |
| KM0201 | i thought you meant, do you *have* to install them.. | 22:51 |
| KM0201 | Unit193: was just getting to that. | 22:51 |
| KM0201 | but that only keeps back "recommended" programs.. if its required for the program to work, then it will be installed | 22:51 |
| lubun | KM0201: Unit193: i was using synaptic since i kept making mistakes with the spelling of rythmbox | 22:52 |
| KM0201 | lubun: thats fine.. it'll pop up the dependencies, click mark, then click apply, and apply | 22:52 |
| Unit193 | lubun: That's fine, it'll work too | 22:52 |
| KM0201 | and it'll do the rest for you | 22:52 |
| * phillw there, got that T-Shirt :) | 22:52 | |
| KM0201 | i really like #lubuntu... the signal/noise ratio is so much lower than #ubuntu. | 22:52 |
| phillw | +been | 22:52 |
| KM0201 | lol | 22:52 |
| Unit193 | phillw: Do I get a t-shirt? | 22:52 |
| KM0201 | phillw: what did you do? | 22:53 |
| phillw | mis-typed rythmbox.... it was doing my head in! | 22:53 |
| KM0201 | oh yeah, i bet everyone has done that | 22:54 |
| lubun | what is a "rhythmbox devel files" | 22:54 |
| * KM0201 won the spelling be in 4th grade, doznt mispel to offten | 22:54 | |
| KM0201 | :) | 22:54 |
| lubun | im a little gunshy with command line | 22:54 |
| lubun | i messed up ubuntu10.10 thats whay i came to lubuntu11.04 fresh install | 22:55 |
| KM0201 | lubun: *usually* there's a GUI tool, to do most things a command line can do. | 22:55 |
| KM0201 | it's just a matter of knowing what it is. | 22:55 |
| Unit193 | Baaa... Synaptic is odd... I don't use it much (Read at all) | 22:56 |
| lubun | yeah... i dont like it as much as the software center | 22:56 |
| KM0201 | Unit193: odd? i think it's fantastic (even though i don't use it to much) | 22:56 |
| KM0201 | lubun: i hate, HATE software center | 22:56 |
| lubun | why? | 22:56 |
| KM0201 | lubun: but... you can install ubuntu software center on lubuntu if you want | 22:56 |
| KM0201 | lubun: SLOW | 22:57 |
| lubun | oh | 22:57 |
| Unit193 | KM0201: sudo apt-get purge software-center :D | 22:57 |
| lubun | lol | 22:57 |
| KM0201 | Unit193: sudo apt-get purge software-cener && and shoot developer && and burn with fire | 22:57 |
| KM0201 | i think that'll do it | 22:57 |
| KM0201 | :) | 22:57 |
| lubun | can i type sudo apt-get purge lubuntu? = boom | 22:57 |
| KM0201 | lubun: actually, you could purge lubuntu-desktop, but you'd only have a CLI machine | 22:58 |
| KM0201 | could you imagine the smoke that would arise from a 'doze machine, if you tried to uninstall "windows-desktop" | 22:58 |
| lubun | my worst nightmare | 22:58 |
| Unit193 | I'm not sure if you purge lubuntu-desktop you would be missing anything... | 22:59 |
| KM0201 | lubun: naa.. then you just stick another GUI on top of it... apt-get install ubuntu-desktop or kubuntu-desktop, or xubuntu-desktop | 22:59 |
| phillw | I'd love see it done... it just conjurs up wonderful images! | 22:59 |
| Unit193 | Does anyone still have lubuntu-desktop still installed? (It's a metapackage that can get removed quite easily) | 23:00 |
| lubun | so the difference between the versions is the desktop and a few programs? | 23:01 |
| * phillw on both my 10.10 and 11.04 for testing on :) | 23:01 | |
| lubun | Unit193: i do | 23:01 |
| lubun | why is that not good? | 23:01 |
| lubun | what should i use? | 23:01 |
| lubun | i thought it was supposed to be faster or something? | 23:01 |
| phillw | lubun: if you are happy with the default prgrammes, then keep it there :) | 23:02 |
| Unit193 | lubun: No, that's just fine! It's also the default, but if you remove any default programs the metapackage gets removed too (It's not good or bad) | 23:02 |
| phillw | I believe the devs are working on that issue for the 11.10 edition, so it does not ask to remove. | 23:03 |
| lubun | Unit193: i got lost with the metapackage comment? and also if there is a better setup than i dont want to be the only chump using default... | 23:03 |
| Unit193 | phillw: Eh? Are you sure you can do that? (Besides putting it all in recommends) | 23:03 |
| KM0201 | lubun: well.. do you not think lubuntu is faster than ubuntu? | 23:04 |
| lubun | meh... | 23:04 |
| lubun | i just took people for there word | 23:04 |
| Unit193 | lubun: It's fine, I just removed a default program. thus mine isn't "default" | 23:04 |
| lubun | basically | 23:04 |
| phillw | KM0201: I am not a dev, i leave that work to the Gods :) | 23:04 |
| lubun | oh dev files for rhythmbox would be for developers? | 23:05 |
| KM0201 | lubun: whats the specs on your machine? | 23:05 |
| Unit193 | Lubuntu should make a fast computer seem even faster and a slow computer seem almost fast! | 23:05 |
| lubun | KM0201: Pent4 3ghz 1gig ram (out of 2) i got it at an antique shop | 23:06 |
| KM0201 | lubun: that's a perfect machine for Lubuntu IMO. | 23:06 |
| KM0201 | anything under 1gig of ram.. IMO.. it's just gonna suck w/ Unity or KDE4 | 23:06 |
| KM0201 | and not be all that great w/ xfce 4 | 23:06 |
| Unit193 | XFCE could take it... | 23:06 |
| KM0201 | yeah, but.. i dunno, i was REALLY disappointed in xfce 4 | 23:06 |
| lubun | but its not slow by anymeans (was faster than windows on ubuntu 10.10) | 23:07 |
| lubun | in fact. since i got onto ubuntu last year. ive bot 3 computers and put them on ubuntu... | 23:08 |
| lubun | $25-$40 for a dead computer and back to normal on ubuntu... | 23:08 |
| KM0201 | pawn shop specials! | 23:09 |
| lubun | flea market, ebay, and thrift store. | 23:09 |
| KM0201 | :) | 23:09 |
| lubun | i tell you. after discovering open source, i cannot justify paying to much for anything | 23:10 |
| lubun | i got spoiled | 23:10 |
| KM0201 | lubun: i know | 23:11 |
| KM0201 | i think eventually, microsoft will catch on, and you'll start seeing their popular software, in an online repository, rather than having to go buy a CD | 23:12 |
| KM0201 | of course, it took microsoft 5yrs to figure out tabbed browsing was something that should be in IE.. so.. i'm not anticipating that any time soon, but i believei t'll happen | 23:12 |
| Unit193 | They are even making apps for Android now | 23:12 |
| lubun | who is making apps?. now im on a quest to build me a beast computer that i can game with, but i struggle installing windows software. | 23:13 |
| lubun | even with crossover... | 23:13 |
| KM0201 | lubun: thats the one area where ubuntu kinda sucks, is gaming... playonlinux helps, but.. it's still rarely gonna be 100% | 23:13 |
| Unit193 | StarCraft2 works well under wine/crossover | 23:14 |
| lubun | how would i install something on playonlinux? | 23:17 |
| w30 | Does anyone know how much Lubuntu takes up after it is installed? I have 8.6 gig available for instalation. | 23:19 |
| w30 | including whatever later | 23:20 |
| KM0201 | w30: prolly under 3gigs would be my guess | 23:20 |
| w30 | KM0201, hey, that'll work cool | 23:21 |
| KM0201 | KM0201: now thats not concrete (i have a lot of crap on my ubuntu partition).. but i can't imagine it being much more than 3... bu ti think it *requires* 5gigs, cuz of an error in the installer | 23:22 |
| w30 | KM0201, XP takes up all 8.6 gigs so it has to go | 23:22 |
| KM0201 | 8.6? is this the entire size of the hard drive? | 23:23 |
| w30 | KM0201, yep it's a ssd solid state | 23:23 |
| KM0201 | oh ok. | 23:23 |
| Unit193 | w30: Would it make you feel any better if I told you I had this installed on 10G? (With way too much crap filling it up...) | 23:23 |
| KM0201 | yeah. | 23:24 |
| lubun | i have notice that my music plays faster than on ubuntu... | 23:24 |
| phillw | KM0201: there is a version of lubuntu that fits snugly in about 2.7GB... as to your data, we cannot do anything about how much you hold | 23:25 |
| KM0201 | phillw: thats what i'm syaing, i've got a ton of data on my main / partition | 23:25 |
| w30 | I think I can mount a /usr/local on a sd card and use that if I need something bib | 23:25 |
| KM0201 | at least 10gigs, and i'm showing 13.5gigs used. | 23:25 |
| w30 | KM0201, this is going to be something I carry in my pocket, I will be ok with a big old Dell laptop plus a desktop with lots of storage | 23:28 |
| KM0201 | hmm | 23:28 |
| KM0201 | w30: why not just get like a persistant USB install, then just use the SSD for storage. | 23:29 |
| w30 | KM0201, yeah that would work too but I would be unlucky and break off my usbdrive | 23:30 |
| KM0201 | lol | 23:31 |
| w30 | KM0201, ben there done that | 23:31 |
| KM0201 | i've never done that, but i can see how its possibe | 23:32 |
| w30 | I have run the usbdrive on my desktop and it works well, I guess I will find out how it works on minimal hardware with this netbook | 23:35 |
| phillw | netbooks should be happy with a pen drive. a little piece of advise, if you want. | 23:36 |
| w30 | I need a pen drive with a monitor eh? | 23:38 |
| phillw | get a pen drive that is certified as Microsoft Speed Boost. they are twice the price, but are built with faster chips and far greater redundancy. | 23:39 |
| w30 | phillw, what about usb 3.0? which is more beneficial? | 23:42 |
| w30 | not that I have usb 3.0 ports | 23:43 |
| phillw | I'm a little behind the times, I'm not sure where linux is with usb3 support. | 23:43 |
| === zkriesse is now known as Guest35470 | ||
| phillw | I do know, that my speed-boost 2GB drive is a great little beast. Having heard about people having their cheap usb sticks 'die' on them, as they are not designed for the amounts of re-writes that a live stick takes, it was not a great leap of knowledge to realise that a stick designed as a swap area and certified, would have a great use as a ubuntu live drive :) | 23:45 |
| w30 | my budget is mostly met by hand-me-downs *sigh* | 23:45 |
| === Guest35470 is now known as zkriesse | ||
| phillw | join the club, that is why I could only afford a 2GB model :/ | 23:47 |
| w30 | phillw, rewrites make me fill my camera cards before erasing | 23:48 |
| === zkriesse_ is now known as Guest55449 | ||
| phillw | I've read of people using those for live sticks! again, there are the cheap ones and the better ones. | 23:48 |
| === zkriesse is now known as Guest90833 | ||
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