[07:08] <daubers> Morning
[07:36] <MartijnVdS> \o
[07:36] <MooDoo> :)
[07:37] <MartijnVdS> Sunday morning + Kings of Convenience = win
[08:16] <AlanBell> morning all
[08:23] <AlanBell> so, 2 stroke oil. Is that a Halfords thing?
[08:40] <suprengr> AlanBell, http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchCmd?srch=2+stroke+oil&x=0&y=0&action=search&storeId=10001&catalogId=10151&langId=-1
[08:40] <suprengr> guess that's a yes ;)
[08:41] <suprengr> [or a farm shop, or a m/cycle shop maybe?]
[08:41] <daubers> Motorbike shop would have it
[08:43] <MartijnVdS> GAH
[08:43] <MartijnVdS> that's the third time this morning that a part of Unity crashed on me
[08:50] <AlanBell> thanks suprengr and daubers, I will give halfords a go
[09:21] <daubers> Woot! Spinners updating dynamically from a database. Almost at the point where I can do the calculations this thing was built for now :)
[09:46] <bigcalm> How do you do a full update with apt-get? I used to know
[09:47] <bigcalm> 3 packages are being held back on a remote server
[10:01] <dogmatic69_> hi all
[10:01] <dogmatic69_> woke up this morning to my server down :/
[10:01] <dogmatic69_> cpu was at 100%
[10:02] <suprengr> dogmatic69, it's better to use an eider down....
[10:02] <dogmatic69_> ?
[10:02] <bigcalm> SUSHI!
[10:02]  * bigcalm departs
[10:03] <suprengr> (a 'quilt')
[10:03] <bigcalm> suprengr: heh, I got it :)
[10:03] <dogmatic69_> clearly missed that one
[10:07] <dogmatic69_> anything i should check
[10:13] <suprengr> I'd be checking temperature fast.  then look for dust &/or failed/failing cooling.... then memory... then software perhaps
[10:14] <suprengr> [& the NIC]
[10:16] <dogmatic69_> its in the cloud
[10:17] <suprengr> oh!
[10:18] <suprengr> methinks a lot of things 'down' atm... google search is in difficulties as well
[10:25] <suprengr> hmmm.... http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/07/10/0438252/Facebook-Helps-Israel-Blacklist-Air-Travellers?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29
[10:26]  * suprengr apologises - meant to paste the tinyurl there
[10:36] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:36] <dogmatic69_> o/
[10:36] <brobostigon> o/
[10:48] <vflinux979> Hi
[10:49] <brobostigon> hi vflinux979
[10:49] <vflinux979> I was yesterday in the London Hacker Space
[10:49] <vflinux979> was greate
[10:50] <ging> your typo makes me hungry, it sounds like a type of cheese
[10:54] <brobostigon> :)
[10:54] <dogmatic69_> whats the odds of the last notw paper being worth something?
[10:55] <ging> about 5million to 1
[10:55] <dogmatic69_> :/
[10:55] <ging> because thats how many they're printing
[10:55] <dogmatic69_> well not immediately, but in time after 4.5 million are recycled
[10:56] <ging> they'll still be half a million which is probably 100x as many news paper colectors as there in in the country
[10:57]  * dogmatic69_ has a few copies just in case
[11:10] <suprengr> weeeee! F! starts on BBC... me go quiet now
[11:11] <ikonia> exacellent
[11:13]  * suprengr spots a rare ikonia typo ;)
[11:21]  * daubers has type conversion woes :(
[11:22] <daubers> 23.98 != 23.9799995422363
[11:23] <AlanBell> http://xkcd.com/217/
[11:28] <daubers> It's definatley when somethings being cast from a float to a double
[11:30]  * daubers tries going around the houses
[11:31] <daubers> interestingly if I go float -> string -> double it's fine
[11:36] <penguin42> what are you seeing?
[11:38] <daubers> penguin42: Hmmm?
[11:38] <penguin42> daubers: I didn't start of your casting problem - what was the problem?
[11:39] <daubers> daubers has type conversion woes
[11:39] <daubers> [12:22] daubers: 23.98 != 23.9799995422363
[11:39] <penguin42> well it's close :-)
[11:39] <daubers> penguin42: Not close enough for a sql matching exercise :)
[11:40] <penguin42> you should never try and match floats as strings for equality
[11:40] <penguin42> not unless you can set rounding etc
[11:43] <penguin42> daubers: The problem is that 23.98 just isn't representable in fp exactly
[11:45] <daubers> penguin42:  I'm not trying to match a float to a string :) When the data is put into sqlite, the sqlite library will only accept doubles, not floats, so it converts to a double then inserts into the db. So when I try and see if that float is in the db, it isn't because it's been converted into a weird number first
[11:46] <penguin42> daubers: Yeh but you see that's not a safe thing to do (as you've discovered)
[11:47]  * penguin42 doesn't know any sql stuff - but that seems a perfectly reasonable thing for it to do 
[11:47] <daubers> penguin42:  To only accept doubles?
[11:47] <penguin42> daubers: Yeh - who would complain about storing something with _more_ precision
[11:47] <daubers> penguin42:  Interestingly, the field in the db is a float
[11:49] <daubers> penguin42:  If it wasn't for that fact, I'd agree with you
[11:50] <penguin42> daubers: If you want to be able to compare values like that then use either a string or a BCD; I don't know if sql can do approximate comparisons or ranges which is really what you need if you are comparing fp
[11:51] <daubers> penguin42:  I've made it work now :) I know the values in there are only going to be one of about 6 fp numbers and it works with all 6 and some really randome ones I picked out the air too
[11:51] <penguin42> yeuch
[11:52] <daubers> penguin42: I've written worse
[11:52] <penguin42> yeh - so have I :-)
[11:52] <ikonia> long shot but do any of you guys use a heart rate monitor watch ?
[11:57] <daubers> penguin42: It's for this http://www.daubers.co.uk/~matt/androidapp.png
[11:58] <daubers> ikonia: No...
[11:58] <ikonia> was a long shot
[11:59] <daubers> ikonia: Why?
[12:00] <ikonia> just looking for one to get a bit more info on some training, could use a experienced hand
[12:02] <daubers> ikonia: Might be worth sending a yell at tonytiger if he's around in the podcast channel. He runs, as does Ciemon
[12:02] <ikonia> what's the podcast channel
[12:02] <daubers> I think tonytiger runs anyway....
[12:03] <daubers> #ubuntu-uk-podcast
[12:03] <ikonia> I'll see if he's around, thank you
[13:14] <jacobw> MartijnVdS also runs
[13:14] <jacobw> t + 71 minutes
[13:36] <czajkowski> torchwood time
[13:42] <suprengr> czajkowski, where???
[13:43] <czajkowski> july14th on uk
[13:43] <czajkowski> on usa on juky 8th
[13:44] <suprengr> czajkowski,  :(   got all excited there!... but thanks anyway
[13:46]  * suprengr says bfn to avoid dropping off channel... 'borrowed' broadband link dying
[13:47] <gord> i stopped watching torchwood after they killed off the only characters i liked :(
[13:49] <jacobw> has anyone got bt infinity?
[13:49] <czajkowski> gord: go back and watch it
[13:49] <czajkowski> not saying any more
[13:50] <jacobw> also, the last timc was awesome :D
[13:50] <czajkowski> jacobw: the 5 day special the children......
[13:50] <czajkowski> was a bit odd
[13:53] <czajkowski> gord: did you like captain jack
[13:54] <jacobw> i don't think i've heard that one :|
[13:56] <MartijnVdS> ikonia: I use a Polar watch.. let me find the type
[13:56] <MartijnVdS> ikonia: FT4
[13:57] <MartijnVdS> it comes with a nice cloth strap (much better than the old plastic strap that came with my previous watch)
[14:02] <ikonia> MartijnVdS: does the heart rate come from a monitor on the watch, or do you need an external strap on your chest ?
[14:07] <gord> czajkowski, not really
[14:47] <penguin42> odd, my router has some messages about NTP clock is now unsynced - not seen those before
[15:08] <Adam_> hello people!
[15:09] <brobostigon> afternoonings Adam_
[15:11] <Adam_> Whats the general view concerning the creation of a ubuntu-uk forum?
[15:11] <brobostigon> it already exists,
[15:11] <Adam_> do u have a link
[15:11] <brobostigon> on the ubuntu forums
[15:12] <Adam_> u mean the sub loco forum
[15:13] <Adam_> what if I were to change the question slightly, does anyone feel a Ubuntu forum for for UK users would be of any benefit?
[15:15] <brobostigon> !forum
[15:15] <brobostigon> hmm,
[15:17] <ali1234> there is already a subforum forum for the UK and no one uses it
[15:18] <AlanBell> 2http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=274
[15:18] <brobostigon> ali1234: spot on, i am trying to find it.
[15:19] <brobostigon> thank AlanBell :)
[15:19] <AlanBell> the geeknic could be unstickied now I guess
[15:20] <AlanBell> wonder if maco2 can do that
[15:20] <ali1234> 3 posts in the past 2 months
[15:20] <brobostigon> Adam_: see AlanBell's link, we already have a forum,
[15:23] <Adam_> In a broader sense, would you be inclined to say the lack of active participation in the UK loco forum
[15:23] <Adam_> would be applicable on a UK user forum if one existed?
[15:23] <brobostigon> this has been discussed,
[15:24] <Adam_> it has? Where can i find more info?
[15:24] <brobostigon> and that because of cultural differences, it isnt in our nature, to use the forums, but to use the mailing list, and irc.
[15:24] <AlanBell> Adam_: what do you mean?
[15:25] <AlanBell> are you proposing to set something up outside of the ubuntu forums?
[15:25] <Adam_> yese
[15:25] <Adam_> *yes
[15:26] <AlanBell> ok, lets turn that round, why do you think one outside of the ubuntuforums.org namespace would be more successful?
[15:26] <Adam_> not specific to uk-ubuntu but for UK users as a whole
[15:26] <brobostigon> so linux geneally ?
[15:26] <brobostigon> generally?
[15:27] <Adam_> I feel the main ubuntuforums can be very busy at times, so busy that many users do not get the help the need
[15:27] <AlanBell> that cuts both ways
[15:27] <brobostigon> the same could be said about #ubuntu
[15:28] <shauno> the corollary to that is that if there's no-one there, there's no-one to help
[15:28] <brobostigon> hence having seperate forum, as well as irc channel.
[15:29] <AlanBell> Adam_: I am not averse to the idea of doing something new, you just have to articulate what is new about it
[15:29] <AlanBell> we set up a facebook page recently, which we should probably put more stuff on
[15:29] <brobostigon> what is the USP, wht is different??
[15:30] <AlanBell> as soon as Google Plus has something that organisations can use then we probably will do whatever that ends up being (there are no groups or pages yet)
[15:30] <brobostigon> that we dont have already, that will make peopleuse that, thanwhat we have already.
[15:31] <ali1234> lack of help on ubuntu forums is not because they are "busy"
[15:31] <ali1234> it's because they are full of idiots
[15:31] <brobostigon> if ubuntu-uk as a whole doesnt use he forums  already, then it could be said, that such an idea, is dead. however, if a new forum were to be astablished, what would make people use said forum, that doesnt alreayd allow for,
[15:32] <ali1234> and the biggest idiots also post the most frequently
[15:34] <Adam_> do you use the ubuntuforums ali1234?
[15:35]  * brobostigon doesnt like forums, for various reasons,
[15:35] <ali1234> every time i have attempted to use them i have received nothing but terrible answers
[15:36] <ali1234> usually i get no answer at all except something useless from a forum warrior with 9,000,000 posts all saying "have you tried turning it off and then on again?"
[15:36] <brobostigon> the "sudo su" and sudo gksudo, situation, is a good example.
[15:37] <AlanBell> this is a biased audience, a lot of people do like forums, and don't like IRC at all
[15:37] <brobostigon> ali1234: also i have seen on the forums, potentially, damaging and dangerous things, being unnecceserily suggested.
[15:37] <AlanBell> but that is kind of irrelevant
[15:38] <AlanBell> the proposal to set up some kind of new forum could be interesting and could work, if it is in some way different
[15:39] <shauno> I'd be curious what it actually stands to gain.  otherwise it's an answer looking for a problem
[15:39] <ali1234> this is my experience with pretty much all forums, not just the ubuntu ones
[15:39] <brobostigon> that will allow people tohave something, that doesnt already exist.
[15:40]  * penguin42 doesn't use forums really; more mailing lists and irc - but I can see some of the idea of them
[15:40] <ali1234> forums are mailing lists for people who think the blue e == the internet, and that is the main problem with them
[15:41] <ali1234> the way i see it the most important function of the ubuntu forums is keeping all those people far, far away from the mailing lists and irc :)
[15:42] <penguin42> haha
[15:42] <AlanBell> I hate having to go through lists of stuff a page at a time, I just don't think a web browser (without ajax based background retrieval of stuff for continuous strolling) is a particularly good client for collaboration
[15:43] <penguin42> AlanBell: I wish lp would do that as well
[15:43] <AlanBell> a forum with a desktop client would be good though
[15:43] <ali1234> i can't stand those infinite scrolling pages
[15:44] <penguin42> ali1234: Why?
[15:44] <ali1234> because you can never scroll to the bottom
[15:44] <penguin42> hmm
[15:45] <ali1234> the main reason i dont like them is because of how they mess with the scroll bar
[15:45] <shauno> that's about the one thing they could do with forums to make them useful for me.  an nntp gateway.
[15:45] <brobostigon> if it has to be text based, then some more collbaroative along the ines of whatwe had with google wave, would be better in my mind.
[15:45] <ali1234> if it's a long page i like to scroll by dragging the scroll bar, except on those it bounces around all over the place when more stuff loads in
[15:45] <ali1234> so i can't do that
[15:45] <ali1234> not that it matters now that scrollbars have been made unusable
[15:46] <ali1234> the other bad thing about them is when they don't fire properly
[15:46] <ali1234> and you get to the bottom of the page and nothing happens
[15:46] <brobostigon> ali1234: that isnt antirly accurate, you only experience that with unity, not with gnome3.
[15:46] <ali1234> and there's no "next" button
[15:47] <ali1234> and you have to start scrolling up and down repeatedly trying to trigger the "load some more" function
[15:47] <ali1234> and that takes like 30 seconds
[15:47] <ali1234> and it would have been much easier for everyone if they just put a "next" button instead of this stupidness
[15:48] <penguin42> ali1234: With google reader I find it's already got more by the time you've got to the bottom so there is no waiting
[15:48] <shauno> I found myself liking the ones where it's a mix between the two.  there's a link to load more, than appends it to the original page.  rather than trying to guess when to do it automatically
[15:48] <ali1234> well google reader is just a mess
[15:48] <penguin42> ali1234: I like it because it removes the wait when you press the next button
[15:48] <ali1234> it has even worse problems with it's UI than the scrolling
[15:49] <brobostigon> but the worst is, i cant directlygo to what is useful with a forum, i have to trawl through loads of stuff that isnt useful before i get to something useful.
[15:51] <ali1234> yes you can
[15:51] <ali1234> forum can do anything a mailing list can do
[15:51] <ali1234> it's just a lot more difficult
[15:52] <AlanBell> the Lotus Notes client got scrollbars right, the view tells the client the total document count so it can position and size the scrollbar correctly, then you can scroll to any point and it loads the content that should be there
[15:52] <ali1234> most forums have a "subscribe to thread" feature
[15:52] <ali1234> this is extremely useful
[15:52] <ali1234> because i can watch the threads i posted in without having to ever see the rest of the site
[15:53] <brobostigon> ali1234: agreed, i have exactly that, on several xda threads.
[15:53] <neuro> bah, forums
[15:53] <ali1234> xda forums is the worrrrrst
[15:54] <brobostigon> ali1234: however the android aosp vrsion iuse,is maintained there, so i have no choice.
[15:54] <ali1234> who is it maintained by?
[15:54] <ali1234> all the real developers of that stuff are on irc
[15:54] <brobostigon> ali1234: ezterry.
[15:56] <ali1234> never heard of em
[15:57] <brobostigon> ali1234: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=882356
[15:58] <penguin42> thing I hate about most forums is the top is normally a big banner; the right side is normally full of adverts, the left side is taken up with stuff about the poster (including a gratuitous picture, the date they joined and inside leg measurement) and then that leaves 3 words in the middel of the display
[15:58] <ali1234> wow people are still using the dream and sapphire??
[15:58] <brobostigon> ali1234: most definatly, yes.
[15:59] <ali1234> the thing i hate most about forums, which i realised when visiting xda forums just now, is when they have a thread that says "ask questions in this thread, don't make a new one" and the thread is 9000 pages long
[15:59] <ali1234> guaranteeing that nobody will ever read it
[16:00] <brobostigon> true point.
[16:01] <ali1234> except the forum warriors of course
[16:01] <ali1234> who will duly respond with their standard unhelpful replies
[16:01] <penguin42> and to those forum lovers reading the transcript of this channel - hard luck!
[16:02] <Adam_> I guess I asked the wrong group of people lol
[16:02] <ali1234> yes most definitely
[16:02] <ali1234> of course, if you ask on some forum, you will get replies along the lines of "what's wrong with this one?"
[16:03] <AlanBell> Adam_: what forum software are you proposing?
[16:03] <ali1234> or if you ask on the loco forum you'll get tumbleweeds
[16:03] <Adam_> I was thinking of using a free server such as forumotion
[16:03] <Adam_> *service
[16:03] <AlanBell> oh, I wouldn't go for that
[16:03] <brobostigon> Adam_: as is said, there a reason why our loco forums dont get used much.
[16:04] <AlanBell> Free software on a server we manage, maybe
[16:04] <ali1234> Adam_: have you ever used ubuntu stack exchange?
[16:04] <Adam_> nope
[16:04] <AlanBell> askubuntu.com
[16:04] <ali1234> it's much better than a forum for getting decent help
[16:04] <ali1234> and people actually do use it
[16:05] <AlanBell> we *could* set up a shapado instance for the UK, but I wouldn't, that kind of thing works better with as many users as possible
[16:06] <ali1234> a what now?
[16:06] <AlanBell> shapado is a ruby on rails free software implementation of the stack exchange concept
[16:06] <ali1234> oh, ok
[16:06] <AlanBell> you don't need to go through the incubation process and prove you are active before they let you have one
[16:07] <ali1234> i think that process is a good thing tbh
[16:07] <AlanBell> so do I
[16:07] <AlanBell> unless you are not going to meet the criteria
[16:10] <ali1234> *especially* if you don't meet the criteria
[16:11] <AlanBell> yeah, true enough
[16:12] <ali1234> think about it: you could set up a ubuntu-uk instance, then totally forget about it
[16:12] <ali1234> then people will be asking questions and nobody will be reading it
[16:13] <ali1234> kind of like how the forum is now
[16:13] <AlanBell> yes, indeed
[16:13] <AlanBell> shapado has its uses though
[16:13] <ali1234> a stack exchange with no users is worse than not having one at all if it gives people false hope :)
[16:13] <ali1234> and you do need a certainly level of activity to make anything like that work
[16:14]  * penguin42 wonders when the search engines will get smart enough to find answers to questions
[16:14] <ali1234> even irc and forums need a certain number of users, otherwise nobody posts because nobody posts
[16:14]  * suprengr wondeers... what's the situation with Firefox's "rolling" releases verses 10.04 LTS [or any LTS]
[16:14] <suprengr> *wonders
[16:45] <daubers> Oooooh... new 2.3.4 update for SGS2 has been leaked
[16:45] <daubers> Just need a USB host shield once thats official :)
[16:46]  * bigcalm has had 2.3.4 for a while now :)
[16:47] <daubers> bigcalm: Nexus S?
[16:47] <bigcalm> N1
[16:48] <bigcalm> CyanogenMod 7.1rc1
[16:48] <daubers> ah, ok :)
[16:48] <bigcalm> ;)
[16:48] <brobostigon> also had 2.3.4 onmy htc dream, or a few months.
[16:48] <brobostigon> for*
[16:49] <daubers> I only got my new phone a week and a bit ago
[16:49] <brobostigon> :)
[16:49] <daubers> Have to admit, it's a lot nice to use than the pre
[16:52] <brobostigon> not tried webos myself yet.
[16:53] <daubers> It has a lot of promise, shame the first round of devices where too underpowered to make it worthwhile
[16:56] <brobostigon> ah, i see.
[16:58] <ali1234> i don't understand why everyone loves webos so much
[17:00] <directhex> ali1234, because it's the mobile os with the cleanest UX
[17:01]  * popey chuckles at the forum discussion
[17:02] <popey> ali1234: I can unsticky
[17:02] <popey> er AlanBell
[17:02] <popey> AlanBell: done
[17:03] <MartijnVdS> ikonia: You need a chest strep that comes with the watch (in the same box)
[17:04] <MattJ> Does anyone have any recommendations for software for recording audio/video from a webcam?
[17:04] <MartijnVdS> MattJ: recording to disk?
[17:04] <MattJ> I was using Cheese, but it doesn't seem very reliable
[17:04] <MartijnVdS> MattJ: ffmpeg :)
[17:04] <MattJ> To disk
[17:05] <MattJ> Does it work with PulseAudio?
[17:05] <MartijnVdS> yes
[17:05] <MartijnVdS> http://www.alex.ballas.org/2010/11/13/ffmpeg-camaudio-recording-pulseaudio/
[17:05] <MattJ> Nice, thanks
[17:10] <popey> ali1234 / AlanBell to be fair I suspect there are a large number of UK residents who use the forums, but they aren't in the loco.
[17:10] <popey> same goes for irc
[17:11] <popey> there's a few people who arrive in #ubuntu and get (and give) support but aren't "in" the loco at all
[17:11] <AlanBell> yes indeed
[17:11] <MattJ101> I should have known better than try to use Empathy for IRC
[17:12] <directhex> MattJ: i agree, as someone who works with empathy devs
[17:13] <MattJ> directhex, sure, Empathy isn't bad, and neither are the devs :)
[17:13] <directhex> MattJ: irc isn't suited to an IM client
[17:13] <MattJ> Indeed
[17:13] <ali1234> that's a weak excuse
[17:13] <MattJ> Not that I expected it to crash
[17:14] <ali1234> irc is nothing but IM with multiple participants
[17:16] <directhex> ali1234: not so much. you're thinking of XMPP MUC.
[17:17] <ali1234> no
[17:17] <ali1234> all protocols support multiple participants in a chat
[17:17] <ali1234> if your IM program is too rubbish to handle that, then it's too rubbish for any protocol
[17:18] <directhex> IM is based around people. people have identities. IRC has no concept of identity beyond the ephemeral - despite the efforts of every one of hundreds of IRC servers to graft it on after the event
[17:18] <ali1234> once again, no
[17:18] <MattJ> Since this isn't XMPP, could someone paste me the ffmpeg link again please?
[17:18] <ali1234> IM is based around you type a message, and it comes out on someone else's computer
[17:18] <MattJ> I lost it when Empathy crashed
[17:19] <directhex> ali1234: whose computer?
[17:19] <ali1234> that is decided by the server, not the IM client
[17:19] <ali1234> so it is irrelevant
[17:20] <ali1234> and it is that way whether you use IRC or jabber or MSN or any of the others
 http://www.alex.ballas.org/2010/11/13/ffmpeg-camaudio-recording-pulseaudio/
[17:26] <MattJ> Thanks directhex :)
[17:26] <popey> oooo that looks handy
[17:27] <MattJ> ./record-camera: line 3: ffmpeg: command not found
[17:27] <MattJ> Not a good start ;)
[17:28] <popey> i had to compile my own ffmpeg today ☹
[17:28]  * MattJ just set up a new machine with 11.04
[17:28] <popey> silly non-free bits missing
[17:28] <AlanBell> popey: tried the G+ video upload yet?
[17:28] <popey> nope
[17:28] <MattJ> "Unknown encoder 'libx264'"
[17:28] <MattJ> \o/
[17:29]  * directhex is compiling OOo
[17:29] <popey> exactly
[17:29] <popey> thats why
[17:29] <popey> also faac
[17:29]  * AlanBell expects to see "* directhex has compiled OOo" on tuesday
[17:29] <MattJ> Heh
[17:29] <directhex> AlanBell: doesn't even build, tbh
[17:29]  * MattJ installs terminator
[17:30] <AlanBell> yeah, when LibreOffice first came out I downloaded the source and totally failed to build it
[17:31] <directhex> sod it, i'll fix it when rene contacts me about it being broken
[18:06] <suprengr> Having a Sunday afternoon bath=good: falling asleep in a Sunday afternoon bath=good; waking up a in a Sunday evening bath=bad!
[18:06] <suprengr> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
[18:09] <zleap> lol
[18:09] <StevenR> suprengr: was the bath cold when you woke up?
[18:10] <StevenR> (if so, have another bath to warm up :) )
[18:10] <suprengr> sort of an ice-box really - & once is enough - I'll use the dressing gown for warming up thanks
[18:13] <suprengr> ...but then again - when you've taken the phrase " knock yourself out" a bit too literally earlier in week ... I'll take all the sleep from relaxing I can
[18:13]  * suprengr feels lump on hear - whopee! it's going down!
[18:13] <suprengr> *head
[18:30] <penguin42> how did you do that?
[18:33] <zleap> do what
[18:36] <penguin42> I just wondered how suprengr knocked himself out
[18:38] <zleap> not sure
[18:41] <czajkowski> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2011-July/msg00006.html
[18:46] <penguin42> oh that's fun
[18:46] <zleap> btw topic for channel gives next meeting as 6th July
[18:46] <penguin42> almost as good as the infridgement the other month
[18:48] <suprengr> Pendulum, working on hardware can be a dangerous thing - 'specially if that hardware is a money machine
[18:48] <AlanBell> itym penguin42
[18:48]  * penguin42 swings back and forwards
[18:48] <suprengr> penguin42, working on hardware can be a dangerous thing - 'specially if that hardware is a money machine#
[18:49] <suprengr> [soz pend
[18:49] <penguin42> suprengr: Haha well erm still an achievement
[18:49] <suprengr> yeh ;)
[18:55] <AlanBell> making the next meeting on a saturday to mix things up a bit, just before the geeknic and we can decide if we are ready to go for reapproval then
[18:58] <brobostigon> good plan AlanBell.
[18:59] <suprengr> +1
[18:59] <brobostigon> new top gear,
[18:59] <brobostigon> apparently.
[18:59] <suprengr> cheers brobostigon - switchin channel now
[18:59]  * popey has two tickets for top gear
[18:59] <popey> need to book that
[19:00] <brobostigon> popey spotting, :)
[19:00] <popey> hah
[19:00]  * suprengr is jealous of popey 
[19:00] <brobostigon> i would rather tickets for HIGNFY.
[19:01]  * AlanBell wonders if Clarkson will make an "Elvis is in the building" comment
[19:01] <popey> I will do my best to look elvis-like
[19:01] <brobostigon> lol
[19:01] <brobostigon> :)
[19:02] <daubers> Speaking of Elvis, I really need a haircut :(
[19:02] <brobostigon> suprengr: now.
[19:02] <suprengr> :)
[19:05] <bigcalm> popey: are you manually posting to G+ the things that you tweet?
[19:05]  * brobostigon admits to fancying a little super7.
[19:08] <brobostigon> lotus/caterham super7.
[19:17] <AlanBell> http://www.watercressonline.co.uk/section.php?xSec=191 anyone fancy a beer on a train?
[19:17] <AlanBell> I know popey and TheOpenSourcerer and czajkowski are likely to
[19:20] <czajkowski> likely to what
[19:21] <brobostigon> go*
[19:21] <AlanBell> czajkowski: beer train
[19:21] <brobostigon> i dont recognise any of the place that arent sold out.
[19:21] <brobostigon> places*
[19:22] <czajkowski> AlanBell: not sure tbh
[19:22] <czajkowski> november is ages away
[19:22] <AlanBell> those are the brewerys, the train is in Alton all the time
[19:23] <popey> AlanBell: lies
[19:23] <popey> it moves up and down the track
[19:23] <AlanBell> this is true
[19:23] <popey> so you mentioned video upload on g+
[19:23] <popey> how do you do that>
[19:23] <AlanBell> I did
[19:23] <popey> I have a video I want to upload
[19:24] <AlanBell> at the top there is a video thing under the comment box
[19:24] <brobostigon> i linked a nice vid from youtube, from carl sagan, on google+ earlier.
[19:24] <AlanBell> click that a second time and a dropdown appears allowing you to upload
[19:25] <AlanBell> I was going to make another chick-flick with titles done in Blender
[19:26] <popey> I just made a video which was testing out a screencasty script I have
[19:26] <brobostigon> chick-flick, eh, huh, pansy.
[19:26] <daubers> AlanBell: I could be tempted again
[19:26] <popey> works a -treat-
[19:26] <brobostigon> sorry, apologies.
[19:27] <brobostigon> AlanBell is not a pansy.
[19:27] <AlanBell> neither is my chicken
[19:27] <brobostigon> :)
[19:28] <AlanBell> I was going to to a video short entitled "Clarabelle lays an egg"
[19:28] <brobostigon> :)
[19:29] <dogmatic69_> popey: what you recoding?
[19:30] <brobostigon> minecraft, ?
[19:30] <popey> uploading!
[19:31] <popey> uploading to youtube and google at the same time :D
[19:31] <brobostigon> cool.
[19:37] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmJ__7OaSF0
[19:38] <popey> should work?
[19:41] <Myrtti> seems like it
[19:44] <popey> cool
[19:44] <czajkowski> popey: really clear
[19:45] <popey> win
[19:45] <popey> shame the google video upload just failed
[19:45] <czajkowski> hear you running through the grass
[19:45] <czajkowski> funky
[19:47] <Myrtti> had to listen to my theme tune of the past year
[19:47] <Myrtti> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qybUFnY7Y8w
[19:47] <Myrtti> while in youtube
[19:56] <popey> Myrtti: tis fantastic :D
[19:56] <AlanBell> need to add a minecraft section to the reapproval application I think
[19:56] <oracology> Myrtti: that video is awesome!
[20:00] <Myrtti> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hvwCmYQsZE
[20:01] <Myrtti> I have it as a ringtone, because I need to be reminded "This Too Shall Pass"
[20:16] <suprengr> bfn
[20:44] <zleap> anyone remember linux world magazine circa 1997
[20:58]  * AlanBell renders the title sequence for "Clarabelle Lays an Egg"
[20:59] <Azelphur> what's the sane thing to use if I want to insert events into google calendar automagically in python?
[20:59] <Azelphur> I see there's a google lib, but is there something more generic I could use that'd work with google and everything else?
[21:05] <shauno> what's "everything else"?  I don't think google calendar uses caldav
[21:07] <Azelphur> shauno: I'm not much on calendar tech, but isn't there other stuff people use too?
[21:08] <shauno> not really :/
[21:08] <shauno> ical uses caldav, which is meant to be a standard, but no-one else uses it
[21:08] <Azelphur> haha
[21:08] <shauno> ginger babies use exchange
[21:08] <shauno> etc
[21:08] <Azelphur> \o/
[21:09] <shauno> there's a reason you can't find a sensible way to work with everything.  there's very few contenders for 'everything', and they all hate each other
[21:09] <Azelphur> I see :)
[21:10] <shauno> (facebook should probably figure in that list somewhere, since I seem to know a disturbing amount of people that use it to create events)
[21:21] <zleap> nite all
[21:23] <popey> AlanBell: you using blender?
[21:23] <AlanBell> through openshot, yes
[21:24] <popey> make a video showing how pls ☺
[21:26] <AlanBell> easy peasy
[21:28]  * popey installs openshot and blender in anticipation
[21:29] <AlanBell> don't install blender
[21:29]  * popey also notes that openshot has a much improved UI
[21:29] <popey> oh
[21:29] <AlanBell> well you can, but you won't use that one
[21:29] <popey> ah
[21:29] <AlanBell> you need a shiny new one, but you don't need it installed
[21:29] <AlanBell> the one in oneiric is new enough, but Natty isn't
[21:30] <daubers> Gah! Stupid TV programs. An IP address with 275 in it IS NOT VALID
[21:31] <AlanBell> neither is a phone number with 555 in it
[21:32] <daubers> :(
[21:32] <AlanBell> which is why when you see a phone number in a film it will always have 555 in it
[21:33] <shauno> that's not always true :/  one of our lines at work is 800-555-nnnn.  and it works!
[21:33] <AlanBell> I am slightly wrong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/555_%28telephone_number%29
[21:33] <popey> http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/numbering/guidance-tele-no/numbers-for-drama
[21:34] <popey> bah, I'm on natty
[21:35] <shauno> I found out a little while ago, that the old-style area codes in the UK are numbered for the exchange's name
[21:35] <AlanBell> natty is fine
[21:35] <popey> they were
[21:35] <shauno> I never knew that :)
[21:35] <popey> my mum was a GPO telephonist about 40 years ago
[21:36] <AlanBell> popey: http://www.blender.org/download/get-blender/ download and unpack, but don't install
[21:36] <AlanBell> then in openshot preferences set the blender path to something like /home/alan/Downloads/blender/blender
[21:36] <popey> ok
[21:37] <shauno> I figured barrow and carlisle were right next to each other (0229 and 0228) because they were the only big towns around.  turns out 22 is BA, and CA.  this was a stunning revelation :)  (yes, I don't get out much)
[21:39] <popey> hehe
[21:39] <popey> its funny when you learn stuff like that
[21:39] <popey> my fave one of those planning things is the one about the motorways around london
[21:40] <popey> if you look at london the ones that go out north east are numbered 1, A1, M1, A10, south east is 2, A2, A20, south west is 3, A3, A30, M3, north west is 4, A40, M40, M4..
[21:40] <BigRedS> that's all motorways and a-roads
[21:40] <popey> well yes
[21:40] <BigRedS> they're around london, cardiff and, er, whichever one is the capital of scotland :)
[21:41] <daubers> BigRedS: London?
[21:41] <daubers> :p
[21:41] <BigRedS> I'm still a bit amused where the 'majorness' has changed over time. Like the some of the A406 being rather more main than a lot of the A1
[21:42] <BigRedS> I think thre's only one motorway in scotland and it links the two, so it's irrelevant anyway :)
[21:42] <daubers> Theres only one motorway in Wales and it leads out of Wales....
[21:42] <bigcalm> ;)
[21:42] <BigRedS> haha, oh yeah
[21:50] <popey> AlanBell: then what? ☺
[21:51] <AlanBell> then you want to create a new animated title
[21:52] <AlanBell> I am rendering a glare one at the moment
[21:52] <AlanBell> basically it creates 250 .png files with transparency
[21:52] <AlanBell> so you can overlay it as a sequence on a video clip
[21:53] <popey> oh neat
[21:53] <AlanBell> Fly towards camera is quite nice
[21:54] <AlanBell> and openshot has lots of nice transitions too
[21:55] <popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2011-July/013387.html
[21:55] <popey> *blech*
[21:55] <AlanBell> eww
[21:55] <AlanBell> old title font
[21:55] <AlanBell> old circle of friends
[21:55] <AlanBell> icky colours
[21:56] <AlanBell> psd file source
[21:57] <popey> good isnt it
[21:58] <AlanBell> sad thing is that someone put some time and effort into that
[21:59] <StevenR> hrrm. anyone used openvpn? I'd like the network-manager-openvpn thing to not modify the default route
[21:59] <StevenR> but it wants to pass the default route through the vpn
[22:03] <ali1234> "not sure if troll"
[22:04] <ali1234> StevenR: route configuration with openvpn is something you do in the config file
[22:04] <ali1234> i have no idea how you control it through an nm plugin
[22:04] <ali1234> you probably can't
[22:04] <ali1234> but openvpn itself has lots of options for controlling routing
[22:04] <ali1234> too many in fact
[22:05] <ali1234> making it work can be extremely difficult
[22:19] <StevenR> ali1234: I managed :) ... in nm you say "Use this connection for resources only on it's network" and configure the push "route net mask gw" lines on the server side :)
[22:19] <StevenR> the nm checkbox actually means "Don't make the vpn the default route"
[22:43]  * StevenR does the "my OpenVPN vpn actually works" happydance
[22:43] <hamitron> :)
[22:43] <BigRedS> whoo!
[22:44] <BigRedS> That's a bit like halley's comet, though
[22:44] <BigRedS> now nobody else will be able to get it to work for another few thousand years
[22:48] <StevenR> BigRedS: yeah. I know.
[22:49] <StevenR> Dear RestOfWorld, Sorry for stealing all of the OpenVPN Magick for the next 227 million attempts. Sincerly, StevenR
[22:50] <BigRedS> haha
[22:50] <BigRedS> it's not your fault the universe and openvpn don't get along :)
[22:51] <StevenR> for my next trick, I have to make it work so I can somehow connect to my parents' house and admin their systems.
[22:52]  * popey just uses ssh
[22:55] <HazRPG> \o
[22:57] <StevenR> popey: yeah, I'm looking for something that will auto-dial my house somehow.
[22:58] <StevenR> popey: at least, I think I am :) ... more thought and experimentation is required
[22:59] <HazRPG> StevenR: Hmm? Like a dial-up modem?
[22:59] <popey> why dial your house?
[22:59] <popey> hey HazRPG
[22:59] <HazRPG> popey: hey dude :)
[22:59] <HazRPG> Long time no see
[22:59] <popey> yeah
[22:59] <StevenR> popey: because they don't have a particularly stable IP, probably.
[22:59] <popey> dyndns?
[22:59] <popey> i installed Prey on my mums pc anyway
[22:59] <popey> in case it gets stolen
[23:00] <BigRedS> yeah, I've replaced openvpn and squid with ssh and now things break an awful lot less
[23:00] <popey> and every 10-20 mins it checks in with my webserver, so not hard for me to figure out her IP :D
[23:00] <HazRPG> popey: prey ftw \o/
[23:00] <StevenR> popey: possibly, depending on how functional their router is
[23:02] <popey> why is the router involved?
[23:02] <popey> I installed ddclient which does the dyndns checkin
[23:10] <StevenR> popey: I'm just exploring options at this stage, Dad and I have been discussing a bundle of things that they'd like to do, and what they'd need to do it. It might be that ssh will do, it might be that I need something more.
[23:17] <daftykins> nobody kept going with Gitso then?
[23:18] <daftykins> at some point i'll play with it again, set it up to disable desktop compositing on win7 desktops and so on so it's usable
[23:18] <HazRPG> Ooo, while you guys are still about... anyone want an invite to Google+?
[23:21] <StevenR> I do think the marketing of G+ is very clever
[23:22] <daftykins> where's it being marketed? i've not seen any
[23:22] <StevenR> (limited invites, build it up as something special, so almost everyone wants one to be part of it. Worked with gmail, still works)
[23:22] <daftykins> ah
[23:23] <daftykins> i've an invite from a friend sat in my gmail inbox but i'm kinda hesitant...
[23:23] <StevenR> it doesn't look like marketing, but it is. Very clever marketing.
[23:27] <daftykins> though only really the type that appeals to geeks in a way
[23:27] <BigRedS> no, it appeals to everyone
[23:27] <HazRPG> StevenR: Agreed, also... have you not noticed the +1 on google searches yet? That's part of the Google+ stuff.
[23:27] <BigRedS> everyone wants to be part of something they can't be
[23:28] <StevenR> HazRPG: yes, I did.
[23:28] <StevenR> BigRedS: exactly.
[23:28] <HazRPG> BigRedS: Indeed!
[23:29]  * StevenR will probably eventually care about G+ (more important things to care about just now)
[23:29] <HazRPG> daftykins: You've got nothing to lose btw signing up, you can download all your Google+ data, and remove the account. Privacy settings are top notch too compared to facebook's implementation.
[23:29] <BigRedS> I'm still trying to work out what a circle is for...
[23:29] <HazRPG> Circle = Friends List
[23:30] <HazRPG> Facebook already had that, so does twitter - most just don't use it.
[23:30] <BigRedS> it sort of appeared to be a way of grouping them
[23:30] <BigRedS> into 'circles of friends'
[23:30] <HazRPG> pretty much
[23:30] <BigRedS> but Google already knows who is in which circles because it knows who knows each other
[23:30] <BigRedS> that's the sort of tedium I'd like my computer to do for me
[23:30] <BigRedS> divvying friends up into who knows who
[23:31] <HazRPG> if you want just a group of people to see things, all you have to do is select that circle before posting... and make sure to remove "public" and only that circle will see it.
[23:32] <HazRPG> If you don't mind friends of your friends seeing stuff, then you select "extended circle" (or circle of circle it originally showed up as)
[23:32] <HazRPG> circle of circles*
[23:32] <HazRPG> Its quite nifty, once you start using them
[23:34] <BigRedS> hmmm, I think I need more friends first :)
[23:34] <BigRedS> I've spent so long complaining about facebook, nobody's added me to their google wotsit
[23:37]  * StevenR continues to maintain a fairly minimalist facebook presence (I don't want all the students at my previous workplace to find me)