[05:35] Hi there === Tw|sT is now known as Tw|sT[Zzz] [06:01] when d class will start? [06:01] !classroom [06:01] The Ubuntu Classroom is a project which aims to tutor users about Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Xubuntu through biweekly sessions in #ubuntu-classroom - For more information visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom [06:02] MysteriousMan: actually the topic also has links to the schedule direcetly. [06:02] ok thanks === Tw|sT[Zzz] is now known as Tw|sT === Tw|sT is now known as Tw|sT[Zzz] === croppa_ is now known as croppa [08:58] #ubuntu-classroom-backstage === coalwater_ is now known as coalwater [13:36] !list [13:36] This is not a file sharing channel (or network); be sure to read the channel topic. If you're looking for information about me, type « /msg ubottu !bot ». If you're looking for a channel, see « /msg ubottu !alis ». [13:40] me [13:49] ChaseVoid, Classes begin in a couple of hours, if I'm not mistaken [13:53] how long until the first classes? my clock is messed up :\ [13:54] classes start at 16:00 UTC. That's just over 2 hours away. [13:54] tumbleweed: Ok, thanks :) [14:02] http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2011&month=7&day=11&hour=16&min=0&sec=0 === johnsgruber is now known as johnsgruber_lern === johnsgruber_lern is now known as jgruber_lernid [14:16] hi [14:17] hello [14:20] philiodilio go for ubuntu-classroom-chat , i think we are not allowed to char here [14:20] chat i meen [14:20] np [14:22] hi [14:23] friends [14:23] hello [14:23] hi there [14:23] do we have any special schedule for ubntu classroom? [14:23] http://ubuntuclassroom.wordpress.com/2011/07/11/coming-up-ubuntu-developer-week-day-1/ [14:23] i read about ubuntu developer week [14:23] and irc [14:23] class [14:24] but [14:24] Just the one mentioned over the wiki [14:24] i didn't have any special schedule program about it [14:24] its here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek [14:24] sergio91pt: yeah [14:25] sergio91pt: and so we should've have program here [14:25] but i don't see anthing [14:25] what's happended? [14:25] 2 hr remaining [14:25] 16 UTC [14:26] MysteriousMan: you mean here is a program at 2 hr after this time? [14:26] UTC + 5:30 is IST [14:26] type "date -u" in your terminal and it will tell you which UTC time it is [14:26] data -u [14:26] ? [14:26] aha! [14:26] terminal :D [14:28] by the way [14:28] ? [14:28] this channel is only for ubuntu developer week [14:28] or here is a [14:28] another program [14:28] in every day? [14:28] data -u [14:28] Pooya: there are other session, check the Classroom wiki page for the schedule [14:29] mhall119: i know but there was a session about this 5 days [14:29] mhall119: i mean after these days(ubuntu developer week days) is there any other session here? [14:30] Pooya: this channel hosts classes to UbuntuOpenWeek, UbuntuDeveloperWeek, UbuntuAppDeveloperWeek, Packaging Training, Beginner's Team Education Focus Group, UserDays [14:30] it is Mon Jul 11 (14:29:59) UTC 2011 and class start 16 UTC [14:32] Pooya: yes [14:32] mhall119: good, tnx [14:32] . === jonas42 is now known as yunus === yunus is now known as jonas42 [14:33] http://ubuntuclassroom.wordpress.com/2011/07/11/coming-up-ubuntu-developer-week-day-1/ just click where it says the time, and it'll take you to a page where it converts that UTC time into several timezones [14:34] hello world === jonas42 is now known as Jonas42 [14:38] how will the instructor teach? Do I need liinux for this? I have wiindows [14:39] dell_: of course! for example about packaging [14:39] dell_: you must have linux obviously [14:40] May be I should install it in virtualbox. Right [14:41] Today i tried to install ubuntu. But the whole process got messed up. So i will wait till later [14:42] im at work right now, and i probably will be on my way home when this class starts, there will be logs right ? [14:42] do i need any multimedia program and any softwae installation. If i got the instruction now I can install it. Internet here is not that fast [14:43] dell_: be carefull that stop your internet while installing ubuntu! [14:43] coalwater, yes, they will be linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek afterwards [14:43] in virtualbox? May be i will disallow internet access via avg [14:44] dholbach, ur the one giving the class right ? [14:44] yes [14:44] ok i want to ask few things [14:44] the first one, but there'll be many others [14:44] sure, fire away [14:44] dell_: generally , ubuntu tries to download some heavy packages while installing process! [14:45] i read some old logs, it was about the same thing, it was kinda hard, like it's intended for lil more advanced users, or that's how i felt it was [14:46] if you have played around with your Ubuntu system a bit, if you like "making things work again", if you can deal with reading documentation and asking a few questions, I'm sure you'll enjoy this [14:46] hello Ubuntu users.. :) [14:46] Hi [14:46] hey [14:46] dell_: they are not heavy in fact but if your internet is slow it seems heavy :d [14:46] when does the session start [14:46] how long till the class starts? hate time zone calculations [14:47] <--- fails @ timezones.. class starts in 15min? [14:47] excited.. [14:47] 1 hour and 15 minutes I believe :) [14:47] yeah 1 hour and 15 mins [14:47] curse you UTC! [14:47] run 'date -u' in the terminal to get the current UTC time [14:48] or add UTC to your panel clock [14:48] w3bcrawler: What you should actually curse is probably DST. [14:48] no keyboard rofl [14:48] wait what? [14:48] onscreen kbd [14:48] should still work with a terminal windows though, right? [14:49] * mhall119 somtimes forgets that not everybody does IRC through a terminal [14:49] Just add iceland to your clock [14:49] still have some tweaks to do for that [14:50] !time [14:50] Information about using and setting your computer's clock on Ubuntu can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuTime - See https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/NTP.html for information on usage of the Network Time Protocol (NTP) [14:50] Hi [14:50] not what I was hoping for [14:50] @now [14:50] nigelb: Error: "now" is not a valid command. [14:50] Doesn't wwork here i guess [14:51] !now [14:51] Factoid 'now' not found [14:51] 1 hour and 10 minutes remaining.. :) [14:51] !utc [14:51] Factoid 'utc' not found [14:51] :( [14:51] let's us wait guy.. [14:51] *guys [14:52] How is the session going to be. Does the instructor give us some pdf to read. Or will it be live broadcast [14:52] It will be an IRC-based session [14:53] nigelb: how is it? [14:53] The instructor wll type into the chat window here, and all chatter should be in #ubuntu-classroom-chat [14:53] During the first session, it will be completely explained [14:53] nigelb: #ubuntu-classroom-chat or #ubuntu-classroom ? [14:54] Pooya: Didn't get your question there [14:54] any software besides basic ubuntu setup, we are going to need? [14:54] irc [14:54] nigelb: where the lesson will be? here at #ubuntu-classroom or #ubuntu-classroom-chat? [14:55] That will be here [14:55] #ubuntu-classroom [14:55] dholbach, in case i couldn't make it thru the whole session, can i find you later on #ubuntu-beginners or #ubuntu-beginners-team ? [14:55] just in case i have any questions to ask later on [14:55] discussion will be in #ubuntu-classroom-chat.. there will be logs [14:56] so we need to install mono? what else [14:57] how often are ubuntu dev weeks? [14:57] 2 times a year IIRC [14:57] Do we need to install any packaging software? [14:57] same with Ubuntu Open Week [14:57] and App Developer Week [14:58] dell_: You do, but it will be mentioned in the session [14:58] nice i wish id have known years ago lol [14:58] thanks [14:58] dell_: to be on safer side you can install a few packages [14:58] if you are on a slow connection [14:58] ubuntu-dev-tools [14:58] build-essential [14:59] thank you. Here internet is very slow [15:00] dell_: are you in iran?! i'm sure Iran has the most terrible in the world! [15:00] dell_: terrible internet* [15:00] also install devscripts [15:00] and pbuilder/cowbuilder (not sure which one they would ask to install) [15:01] i am currently installing ubuntu on virtualbox. It's 3 minutes away [15:01] Do we need any multimedia support. Like mp3 and so [15:02] do we need to be on our Ubuntu systems? I can only get on windows since my laptop's got a frayed charger- it's not a practical lesson is it? [15:03] pengper: you can still look at the instructions [15:03] logs would be available later [15:03] pengper, some of them will be practical but you should be able to read the logs afterwards [15:03] well pengper i am installing ubuntu right now on virtual box. Ha ha [15:03] Hi dholbach, waiting for your session [15:03] 57m :-D [15:04] ah right- I'll just take notes quietly then :) [15:04] pengper: when you get back to your system, you can look at the logs and try them out [15:04] too many join/parts :( [15:04] Why do we need classroom-chat if we have this one. Won't the instructor use only this? [15:04] dell_, yes, but chat and questions will be in the other channel [15:05] dell_: this keeps the classroom logs clean [15:05] containing instructions with Q&A [15:05] So what do i follow most of the time. This or other. I have tree view. I may miss that one [15:05] when does this start? [15:05] charlesTerry0528, 55m [15:06] Ok I got it guys. What we are doing right now. We will be doing in chat when the instructor starts here. Right? [15:06] of course, I forgot to subtract British Summer Time. dang, I might miss a bit then [15:07] dell_: this channel will become moderated once the session starts [15:08] and we can speak only in -chat channel [15:08] yes [15:08] well I saw this on facebook "Ubuntu Developer Week begins today! Be sure to join this week of tuition sessions about how to contribute as an Ubuntu developer! See " so I'm guessing you did not miss it, the message was from about 40 minutes ago [15:09] I'm new to prgramming, once I learn Java should I move onto Python? [15:10] Today when I tried to download 64 bit version, the ubuntu site recommends 32-bit. If i have 4 g ram what is best? 64-bit or 32-bit any recommendations [15:10] charlesTerry0528: it depends on your purpose [15:10] charlesTerry0528: java is used for special word , python too, c++ too , ... [15:10] work * [15:11] dell_: It depends on your CPU architecture, not your RAM. If you got your computer recently, it is probably 64 bit. [15:11] my first developer week \o/ [15:12] yes it is 64 bit. But some say ubuntu 64-bit does not support some software. And in 32-bit it only uses ram less than 4 G. Is it true? [15:12] google the make of your computer. it'll tell you whether it's 32 or 64 there [15:12] how many this has been arranged before? [15:12] go with 32 if still uncertain [15:12] tbh it's not a massive change- it's a slight increase in performance, though. [15:12] Mine is 64-bit. I am currently running windows 7 64-bit [15:13] dell_: I am using 64 bit, and everything works great. Actually, the 32 bit ubuntu did not work on my system [15:14] Then I should probably download 64-bit later. [15:14] I currently have 32-bit iso [15:14] @crazed really? i wonder if that's the problem with mine. I have an AMD64 laptop but i used 32 because i didn't know it at the time. I now have a glitch where I get strange lag if I don't have an internet connection. [15:14] pengper: Error: "crazed" is not a valid command. [15:15] oops i mean i was talking to crazed. obvious irc noob here... [15:15] did that post go through? [15:15] I want to develop mucho ubuntu [15:16] pengper: That's probably not related... my problem was that the display didn't work [15:16] is there anyway for converting 32bit iso to 64 bit iso? [15:16] no... [15:16] Pooya: No, you have to download the 64 bit version [15:16] there's 32 bit and 64 bit [15:17] Pyker: i know but it's interseting idea [15:17] Pyker: is it possible to write a program to do this job? [15:17] there are coding differences [15:17] i think it is binary. If it were source code we could compile ubuntu into 64-bit i guess [15:17] there are no programs whatsoever that can convert that [15:17] Pooya: the difference is that 64bit software is compiled on a 64bit system [15:18] crazed: ok. I presume i got a corrupt iso cos our connection is dodgy. virgin is the worst isp we've ever had [15:18] should i know python, perl etc [15:18] you can compile a 64 bit in a 32 bit pc with some flags set i suppose.. [15:18] i second Dell_'s question [15:19] dell_: you's better to read article names "how to become hacker" . the usage of perl,python,java,c ... are explained there [15:20] eric ramond or what is the author's name. Ofcource I have read it. But its a long time. I forgot everything [15:20] there are too many articles called "how to become hacker" for us to possibly know what you're talking about, Pooya [15:20] now i have an author, I can look it up! [15:20] He talks even about lisp, which never gets into my head [15:22] heres a link: http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html [15:22] to the article [15:22] pengper: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html [15:22] pengper: it's famous article [15:22] i should probably know more than basic, c++, c# and a wee bit of java :L [15:22] I know little java. Is that enough to understand the author's intent, or should we know how to construct scripts using python, perl etc [15:22] thanks, Pooya. [15:26] can we just talk about Ubuntu here? [15:31] ... 28 minutes to go ... [15:32] yes [15:32] ubuntu-dev-tools build-essential devscripts is 39.9 MB [15:35] dell_, try installing with --no-install-recommends [15:36] why?. I am currently installing. Should I stop. [15:36] After that i will install xchat in ubuntu(virtualbox) and go fullscreen [15:37] dell_, no that's fine [15:37] I thought you mean to say that 39.9MB was too much [15:38] It's a bit big. Considering I will install freepats and xchat in the mean time [15:42] Currently I have started playing need for speed most wanted (2nd time). So I can not permanently switch to ubuntu right now. So I am being very cautious about installing by creating a partition. I know I will eventually switch as before [15:43] Anyways virtual box seems very nice. Previously I had to do quite a bit of work to start internet, but it has become so better [15:45] It seems lots of chat is going on in ubuntu-classroom-chat, should we guys start chatting there instead of here? === maco2 is now known as maco === mohan is now known as Guest45684 === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Developer Week - Current Session: Getting Started with Ubuntu development - Instructors: dholbach [16:00] HELLO EVERYBODY! [16:01] Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/11/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. [16:01] Welcome to another fantastic and exciting Ubuntu Developer Week! [16:01] a few organisational things first [16:01] please make sure you also join #ubuntu-classroom-chat because that's the place where we chat and where you can ask questions while the sessions are going on [16:02] if you want to ask a question please prefix it with QUESTION, ie: [16:02] QUESTION: What's the name of dholbach's dog? [16:02] another thing: if you can't make it to a particular session: no problem, we'll upload logs and link to them at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek [16:03] and another thing: if you work on a project that you would like to demo or present, the last session of UDW (Friday, last slot) is all about 5 minute lightning talks where you can present your project [16:03] talk to nigelb about it [16:04] that should be the organisational bits for now, but if you have any questions, either about the content of the sessions or the general event, please do ask [16:05] LibertyZero asked: What's the name of dholbach's dog? [16:06] LibertyZero, my dog is called Murphy :) [16:06] ok, questions queue cleared up, awesome! :) [16:06] let's get to the first session of UDW [16:07] my name is Daniel Holbach, I've been part of this community since the hoary release and work for Canonical for a few years now, taking care of the developer community [16:07] it's my privilege to do the "Introduction to Ubuntu Development" sessions today [16:07] in the first half I'll try to give a rough overview over Ubuntu Development, how it works, when we do what, who we interact with and which tools and infrastructure we use [16:08] in the second half, I'll explain how to set up your development environment and let's see how much time we have at the end - we might even toy around with a few packages at the end :) [16:08] Ubuntu is made up of thousands of different components, written in many different programming languages. Every component - be it a software library, a tool or a graphical application - is available as a source package. Source packages in most cases consist of two parts: the actual source code and metadata. Metadata includes the dependencies of the package, copyright and licensing information, and instructions on how to build the package [16:08] . Once this source package is compiled, the build process provides binary packages, which are the .deb files users can install. [16:09] This means that the actual .deb files are nothing we copy around or upload somewhere, we as developers always just deal with the source. [16:09] Every time a new version of an application is released, or when someone makes a change to the source code that goes into Ubuntu, the source package must be uploaded to the build machines to be compiled. [16:10] The resulting binary packages then are distributed to the archive and its mirrors in different countries. The URLs in your /etc/apt/sources.list file(s) point to an archive or mirror. [16:10] limivanb asked: what is the meaning of "deb" in .deb extension files? [16:11] limivanb, I think it stands for "Debian binary package" - because Debian is the distribution we inherit a lot of the technical foundation and source code from, more about our relationship to Debian later on [16:12] Every day CD images are built for a selection of different Ubuntu flavours. Ubuntu Desktop, Ubuntu Server, Kubuntu and others specify a list of required packages that get on the CD. These CD images are then used for installation tests and provide the feedback for further release planning. [16:12] Ubuntu’s development is very much dependent on the current stage of the release cycle. We release a new version of Ubuntu every six months, which is only possible because we have established strict freeze dates. [16:13] If you have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule you can get a nice overview of the Oneiric cycle, which will have Ubuntu 11.10 as its end product. [16:13] With every freeze date that is reached developers are expected to make fewer, less intrusive changes. [16:14] The green and red colours on the page are meant as indicators for developers: green means "anything goes", red means "be super super careful". [16:15] It's no indicator of how well the current development release works on your computer. :-) [16:15] Feature Freeze is the first big freeze date after the first half of the cycle has passed. At this stage features must be largely implemented. [16:16] After that the user interface, then the documentation, the kernel, etc. are frozen, then the beta release is put out which receives a lot of testing. From the beta release onwards, only critical bugs get fixed and a release candidate release is made and if it does not contain any serious problems, it becomes the final release. [16:16] I think it's clear that most of the first half of the release is about feature development and bringing new versions of all kinds of software in and that the second half is more about ironing out bugs. [16:17] raju asked: if we make some small .deb files (for personal usage), is there any need to send them to ubuntu repo's to install them in my PC? [16:17] raju, It's not strictly required, but if you want others to be able to use your software, it might indeed be helpful to share them. [16:17] Also might you find people who are interested in helping you out fixing things, etc. [16:18] I realise that I zipped through a lot of stuff quickly now, are there any more questions about this? [16:19] And also let me know if I'm too quick or don't make sense. :-) [16:19] Ok, seems we're all fine... for now. [16:19] robinparriath asked: Is the feature freeze applicable for LTS too? or do features get added after release? [16:20] robinparriath, yes, it's applicable for LTS releases too [16:20] as a measure of caution we strictly try to keep changes that go into a released version of Ubuntu to the very minimum [16:21] security fixes and other important fixes naturally should be fixed after the release, but with a couple of million users it's a very risky thing to change too much in the code [16:22] I'll talk a bit more about that later on. I hope for now it suffices to say that 1) there's an Ubuntu release every 6 months and 2) there's the Ubuntu Backports project which tries to give updated versions of software to users of released versions of Ubuntu [16:22] ishan asked: What is LTS? [16:23] ishan, It's "Long term support" releases. [16:23] Instead of 18 months of support, it's 3 years on the desktop and 5 years on the server. [16:23] ben72 asked: are there some kind of checks for quality/malware of personal PPA:s? [16:24] ben72x, for getting packages into Ubuntu, yes, there is checks that make sure that we don't get software into the archive that is problematic [16:24] Undistributable software for example [16:24] for PPAs (Personal Package Archives) the restrictions are less drastic [16:24] ThomasB2k asked: How many releases back does this Ubuntu Backports project support, or is it just the standard 18 months? [16:25] ThomasB2k, as far as I know it supports the currently supported releases [16:25] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu lists the currently supported releases [16:25] limivanb asked: During development, how can ubuntu supports most of the drivers like video (ATI,GeForce),printers, etc? [16:26] limivanb, it's only possible because the developer of Ubuntu work closely with the Kernel and X.org upstream development communities and make sure that all the good fixes go into Ubuntu [16:27] also is there Certification efforts going on, where a lot of different machines are regularly tested if they work on a range of Ubuntu releases [16:27] subrahmanyam asked: Does ubuntu test and check the code that we developers have send.i.e,can we trust the code done by others??And if yes upto what extent === milos is now known as Guest95579 === Guest95579 is now known as Xaude === Xaude is now known as Xauder [16:28] subrahmanyam, I'll dive into that into more detail later on, but for now: extensive code review for old releases, new packages, packages that go into main plus code review of all changes that new contributors (who don't have upload access yet) bring in [16:28] I hope that suffices for now [16:28] Kvrmurthy asked: What system configuration is necessary to do most of development and testing stuff? You can name any specific laptop or desktop model [16:29] Kvrmurthy, there's no specific machine necessary - if it's fast enough for your daily work and you have a reasonable internet connection you should be all set [16:29] how to set up your development environment we'll cover a bit later on [16:29] valleyIIT asked: why unity 2D is provided if it cannot work properly on systems without graphics card [16:29] valleyIIT, at 18:00 UTC (after my session) you should ask the Desktop engineers about that [16:29] ben72 asked: should I avoid using personal PPA:s as much as possible. on different sites out there you can find a lot of links to different PPA:s. [16:30] ben72x, not necessarily - if there's one or two packages you want to try, I guess it's fine - if you have 156 different PPAs installed, which pull in all kinds of different libraries, I guess you might get into trouble [16:30] so no "avoid PPAs" from me :) [16:30] dell asked: I heard you use debian packages. So do you compile it in some old ubuntu computer or do you download it from debian [16:31] dell, I mentioned it earlier actually: we don't download .deb packages from anywhere, we always just use the source and build it on Launchpad build machines for Ubuntu === Vivek is now known as Guest28306 [16:31] but more about the interaction between Ubuntu and Debian later on [16:31] enes asked: Does the 6 months cycle make releases a bit a work of compulsion? Does the developers try to make changes for the cycle but unnecessary? [16:32] a hard question - as I see it, the 6 month release cycle forces us to work on features, but also make sure we get something out there, and something that works [16:32] awanti asked: After developing/building the OS how could you tell that its powerfull os, i mean how you test the OSing [16:33] I'm not sure how to answer the question - there's a lot of testing going on, a variety of testing and QA initiatives [16:33] it's certainly powerful enough for me, I never longed for anything else :) [16:33] limivanb asked: The ubuntu developers are using the drivers/API provided by the manufacturer of graphics adapter (for example), or printers, and other hardware? [16:34] limivanb, there'll be a kernel session later on this week which might be just the right place [16:34] most of the foundational libraries and the kernel define APIs and lots of hardware manufacturers work in those communities [16:34] so it's a bit of both, I guess :) [16:35] jykae asked: I have programs in PPA, how to get them to Ubuntu Software Center? [16:35] jykae, I'll answer that question in more detail later on [16:35] Kvrmurthy asked: On what platform Ubuntu was first developed? For that matter with what and on what the code for os in its initial stages is developed and compiled, run and tested?? [16:36] Kvrmurthy, Ubuntu is a derivative of Debian, so all the developers of Ubuntu in the warty (4.10) release had a Debian machine they were working on :) [16:36] maybe somebody in #ubuntu-classroom-chat can find a link of the very first announcement of the Ubuntu project [16:36] ... and I go back to the Introduction to Ubuntu Development? :) [16:37] zimio asked: If upstream fixes a bug, how important must it be so that it will be also fixed in the ubuntu package? [16:37] zimio, I briefly mentioned it earlier: it always depends where we are in the release cycle [16:37] in the beginning it's very easy to get it in, no matter how critical the bug fix is [16:38] towards the end of the release cycle we try to minimise the amount of new code going in [16:38] alright, end of the question queue - let's crack on :) [16:39] Let's talk a bit about planning the release. [16:39] Thousands of source packages, billions of lines of code, hundreds of contributors require a lot of communication and planning to maintain high standards of quality. At the beginning of each release cycle we have the Ubuntu Developer Summit where developers and contributors come together to plan the features of the next releases. [16:39] Every feature is discussed by its stakeholders and a specification is written that contains detailed information about its assumptions, implementation, the necessary changes in other places, how to test it and so on. [16:40] This is all done in an open and transparent fashion, so even if you can not attend the event in person, you can participate remotely and listen to a streamcast, chat with attendants and subscribe to changes of specifications, so you are always up to date. [16:40] Not every single change can be discussed in a meeting though, particularly because Ubuntu relies on changes that are done in other projects. That is why contributors to Ubuntu constantly stay in touch. [16:40] Most teams or projects use dedicated mailing lists to avoid too much unrelated noise. For more immediate coordination, developers and contributers use Internet Relay Chat (IRC). All discussions are open and public. [16:41] Another important tool regarding communication is bug reports. Whenever a defect is found in a package or piece of infrastructure, a bug report is filed in Launchpad (https://launchpad.net/). [16:41] All information is collected in that report and its importance, status and assignee updated when necessary. This makes it an effective tool to stay on top of bugs in a package or project and organise the workload. [16:42] Any questions about bugs, communication or planning the release? [16:43] Somebody asked earlier, where the first Ubuntu release was developed on. rww dug out this historical web page: http://web.archive.org/web/20040731032313/http://www.no-name-yet.com/ :) [16:43] thanks rww [16:43] Shock45 asked: Why do some bugs stay unfixed for such a long time after they've been confirmed? [16:44] Shock45, that's a good question [16:44] Sometimes it's because the problem is hard to fix, sometimes it's because there's too much work to be done and not enough hands on deck. [16:44] In a few minutes I'll talk a bit more about how we interact with other projects which should help with bringing each other up to date and fixing problems together. [16:45] Abhijit asked: What to do about the bugs I have reported so many days ago and since they are not critical they still have not fixed yet? [16:45] Abhijit, I hope the reply to Shock45's question answered this. [16:45] Ok, let's talk about Ubuntu and other projects. [16:45] Most of the software available through Ubuntu is not written by Ubuntu developers themselves. Most of it is written by developers of other Open Source projects and then integrated into Ubuntu. These projects are called “Upstreams”, because their source code flows into Ubuntu, where we “just” integrate it. [16:46] The relationship to Upstreams is critically important to Ubuntu. It is not just code that Ubuntu gets from Upstreams, but it is also that Upstreams get users, bug reports and patches from Ubuntu (and other distributions). [16:46] You might have guessed it already: Debian, which we derive from, is one of those Upstreams that is critically important to us. :) [16:46] Debian is the distribution that Ubuntu is based on and many of the design decisions regarding the packaging infrastructure are made there. Traditionally, Debian has always had dedicated maintainers for every single package or dedicated maintenance teams. [16:47] In Ubuntu there are teams that have an interest in a subset of packages too, and naturally every developer has a special area of expertise, but participation (and upload rights) generally is open to everyone who demonstrates ability and willingness. [16:47] ben72 asked: how can I wish for a specific software to be added to ubuntu so I don't have to add extra sources to install it? === fran_ is now known as Guest38065 [16:47] ben72x, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages should answer the question in great detail, but I'll talk about specific parts of it later on as well. [16:48] dell asked: Does ubuntu team use code from other teams like fedora etc [16:48] dell, yes. In a lot of cases maintainers and engineers from various distributions know each other and work together in those upstream communities, which is why issues are often identified together (and depending on their release schedule) integrated where they fit in well. [16:49] coalitians asked: How does community prevent duplicate bug reports or dependent ones [16:49] coalitians, There will be a dedicated session about this later in the week. [16:49] We have some automatic tools that help figuring this out, but in some cases we have to manually find out duplicates and mark them as such in the Launchpad bug tracker. [16:50] limivanb asked: Why Ubuntu requires more memory compare to windows OS? [16:50] limivanb, no idea. I luckily haven't Windows in a very very very very long time. [16:50] ashams asked: is there any one tracks non-bitsize User experience bugs, and fix them? and hwhere to report *big* UE bugs? [16:50] ashams, great question - would you mind asking them when we have the Desktop team here at 18:00 UTC? :) [16:50] There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. [16:50] naveen_ asked: How to know if its a new bug or the issue is happening only to me? [16:51] naveen, in some cases a google search or a search in launchpad.net will let you know, also if you try to report a bug in Launchpad it will try to find bugs that match your description [16:52] if in doubt: file the bug, somebody might mark it as duplicate if it really is, in the other case it will be super helpful to have your input [16:52] ok, let's crack on :) [16:52] Many of you asked how you can get something into Ubuntu. I'll answer this in more detail now: [16:52] Getting a change into Ubuntu as a new contributor is not as daunting as it seems and can be a very rewarding experience. It is not only about learning something new and exciting, but also about sharing the solution and solving a problem for millions of users out there. [16:53] Open Source Development happens in a distributed world with different goals and different areas of focus. For example there might be the case that a particular Upstream might be interested in working on a new big feature while Ubuntu, because of the tight release schedule, might be interested in shipping a solid version with just an additional bug fix. [16:53] That is why we make use of “Distributed Development”, where code is being worked on in various branches that are merged with each other after code reviews and sufficient discussion. [16:54] In some cases it would make sense to ship Ubuntu with the existing (old) version of the project, just add a specific bugfix, forward the patch to Upstream for their next release and ship that (if suitable) in the next Ubuntu release. It would be the best possible compromise and a situation where everybody wins. [16:54] http://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/packaging-guide/html/_images/cycle-branching.png might illustrate what I just talked about [16:55] To fix a bug in Ubuntu, you would first get the source code for the package, then work on the fix, document it so it is easy to understand for other developers and users, then build the package to test it. [16:55] After you have tested it, you can easily propose the change to be included in the current Ubuntu development release. A developer with upload rights will review it for you and then get it integrated into Ubuntu. [16:55] There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session. [16:55] Does that make sense so far? [16:56] When trying to find a solution it is usually a good idea to check with Upstream and see if the problem (or a possible solution) is known already and, if not, do your best to make the solution a concerted effort. [16:56] ben72 asked: does it matter if it's Ubuntu developed software or if the package is entirely from an upstream? === coalwater_ is now known as coalwater === limivanb is now known as ivanlim [16:57] ben72x, not all - the only thing that changes might be the number of people you interact with when making sure that your fix is accepted and integrated everywhere [16:57] sorry, I mean "not at all" [16:58] the pattern is the same: share your fix, make sure everybody benefits, keep the differences between Ubuntu and its upstreams as low as you can [16:58] ankurgel asked: In 'Distributed Development', will each and every participant in code will be updated with related bug report as it happens in all Upstreams? [16:59] ankurgel, the session about Bug Triage will answer this in a broader sense, but Launchpad was designed so you can keep track of the same problem in various projects and various bug trackers - it's super helpful when you are trying to figure out who has fixed the problem already or if there are open questions [16:59] ice asked: how to become a good ubuntu developer? [17:00] ice, enjoy "making things work again", be a good team player, don't be afraid of reading documentation and asking a few questions, get your bug fixes submitted for review, work with others to improve them :) [17:00] ice asked: can we view the seesions later? === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Developer Week - Current Session: Getting Started with Ubuntu Development - Instructors: dholbach [17:00] ice, sure you can - just hang out in here or read the session logs on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek later on [17:00] Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/11/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. [17:01] ok, I have a few closing remarks for the Introduction to Ubuntu development, then let's take a 2-3 minute break so everybody can relax a bit and get a new coffee, tea, or whatever else :) [17:02] When you work on a fix, additional steps might involve getting the change backported to an older, still supported version of Ubuntu and forwarding it to Upstream. [17:02] As I said earlier: The most important requirements for success in Ubuntu development are: having a knack for “making things work again,” not being afraid to read documentation and ask questions, being a team player and enjoying some detective work. :) [17:02] ^ This last point is important to me, that's why I keep saying it. :-) === Abhijit_ is now known as Abhijit [17:02] Good places to ask your questions are ubuntu-motu-mentors@lists.ubuntu.com and #ubuntu-motu on irc.freenode.net. You will easily find a lot of new friends and people with the same passion that you have: making the world a better place by making better Open Source software. [17:03] Let's take a quick break, I'll be back in 2-3 minutes. [17:06] Are there any questions from the first part of the session? [17:07] ben72 asked: is it enough for me to upload the fix to launchpad? will upstream monitor and pick it up by themselves? [17:07] ben72x, some will, but the majority won't because they have their own bug tracker [17:08] as I said earlier, we'll have a session about working with Debian later on this week - this one should definitely be interesting [17:08] grungekid_ asked: Does ubuntu provide any good coding tutorials for languages such as python etc? [17:08]