kenvandinegood morning pitti03:25
RAOFGood moririririning.04:01
pittiGood morning04:23
* bryceh waves04:24
pittiTheMuso: do you know whether powerpc still uses /dev/hda, i. e. the old IDE drivers?05:14
TheMusopitti: On ubuntu, probably, but our kernel config needs to be fixed to not use those any more...05:15
TheMusoActually, I am sure we do.05:15
pitti-KERNEL!="sr[0-9]*|xvd*", GOTO="cdrom_end"05:15
pitti+KERNEL!="sr[0-9]*|hd[a-z]|xvd*", GOTO="cdrom_end"05:15
TheMusopitti: Don't worry about it, I hope to fix that kernel side.05:15
pittiI wonder whether we can drop that for good05:15
pittibut I don't have a powerpc system to check05:15
pittiTheMuso: ok, so mind if I drop this? if cdrom still works after that, then all is well05:16
TheMusopitti: Just drop it. I don't care as much about powerpc these days, if I get to fixing the kernel config then it works, otherwise it won't work/05:16
cdbstremolux: hi06:38
tremoluxcdbs: hey!06:38
cdbstremolux: Sorry again, seems like the delay just got longer, I'm going to Medina. A week + 2-3 days would be okay?06:38
cdbsfor the work, I mean06:38
tremoluxcdbs: of course, no worries06:39
tremoluxcdbs: if you need any help, etc., just let me know06:39
TommehArgh, gnome-ppa's fiddled with all my fonts07:40
AfCTommeh: Yeah, I noticed that too. Really annoying. I don't know where Canterell went; not that I'm that upset about it, I just went back to DejaVu Sans like I was used to. Still...07:43
TommehAfC: is there a method to do that for the 'theme', or do I need to adjust it in every app?07:43
RAOFTommeh: gnome-tweak-tool exposes that knob.07:44
TommehMagic, thank you07:44
chrisccoulsongood morning everyone07:45
chrisccoulsonit's quiet in here, where is everyone? ;)07:46
RAOFRaging at sbuild, probably.07:47
TommehOh well. I didn't have to fiddle with gnome-tweak-tool in the end - ran apt-get dist-upgrade and restarted gdm.07:50
TommehBack to how it was last night.07:50
chrisccoulsonhey RAOF, how are you?07:50
RAOFchrisccoulson: Raging at sbuild! :)07:51
RAOFOther than that, pretty good.07:51
RAOFI need to start doing a bit more exercise again, though.07:52
RAOFBut it's cold!  a07:52
RAOFAnd wet!  And windy!07:52
chrisccoulsonit's not too cold here, but it is grey and miserable outside07:52
chrisccoulsonas usual ;)07:52
RAOFI understand that Englishmen actually combust should the sun's rays touch their skin unfiltered by a layer of cloud.07:56
* pitti looks at the bright blue sky and sun and shakes head08:00
RAOFI'm confused.  Why can't sbuild create it's lockfile?08:03
RAOFOh.  Because I can't read properly.e08:05
pittibonjour seb12808:37
seb128hey pitti, how are you?08:38
pittiquite well, thanks! even better now that keyboard/mouse work again :)08:38
* pitti throws new initramfs-tools archivewards, works fine now08:38
pittiseb128: how are you?08:39
seb128nice that this one got debugged ;-)08:40
seb128I'm fine thanks08:40
rodrigo_hi seb128, pitti08:40
pittihey rodrigo_08:40
seb128but I should try to go back to normal hours, I have shifted to late nights and late morning recently!08:40
seb128hey rodrigo_08:40
pittiseb128: bug 807306, in case someone asks -- it comes up quite often on the MLs and on IRC08:40
ubot2Launchpad bug 807306 in udev "[oneiric] Keyboard & mouse not working in X - incomplete migration to /run" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80730608:40
rodrigo_seb128, yeah, me too, because of the heat? :)08:40
pittiseb128: heh, indeed - I already have half my day done :)08:41
seb128pitti, oh, meeting reminder08:41
seb128rodrigo_, yes, not easy to sleep early in summer so I tend to hang around later and sleep in the morning08:41
rodrigo_yeah, same here08:42
pittiworks either way, yeah08:42
pittiI have the cool and fresh air in the morning, but trouble getting to sleep at 10 pm (still too warm)08:42
cassidyseb128, so, we are about to merge another branch making use of libcheese for camera detection. Is a hard dep really an issue for you?08:42
seb128cassidy, yes08:43
seb128cassidy, until someone moves camerabin to good or its own source it's a no go08:43
pittiwell, I guess we could stay at the current version until that happens?08:43
cassidyok, let me ask to our gst people about that08:43
seb128pitti, right, we will do either that or patch it out08:44
seb128cassidy, having cheese depending on mx is annoying as well08:44
seb128but that's less of a blocker, just annoying as a depends08:44
chrisccoulsonhey seb128, pitti08:45
seb128hey chrisccoulson, how are you?08:45
pittihey chrisccoulson08:45
SweetsharkHi all!08:45
pittihey Sweetshark08:45
chrisccoulsonseb128, good thanks, how are you?08:45
chrisccoulsonhi pitti08:45
seb128chrisccoulson, I'm fine thanks08:45
seb128hey Sweetshark08:45
Sweetsharkpitti: ups, forgot that: the files are on chinstrap08:45
pittiSweetshark: ah, nice; thanks!08:45
cassidyseb128, seems camerabin will never go to good, camerabin2 will at some point and cheese is going to move to it08:49
seb128cassidy, ok, well I guess we will wait for that then08:50
seb128cassidy, do you know if that's likely to be this cycle?08:50
cassidyseb128, cheese using camerabin2 propably; the move to good, not sure08:50
seb128cassidy, well in any case if you add the depends to empathy you will make distributors job hard until those issues are sorted, which might take a while08:54
cassidyseb128, I think most distros already ship Cheese by default actually08:55
seb128debian and ubuntu don't at least08:55
seb128but I'm surprised fedora ships with non good codecs by default08:55
pittiSweetshark: uploaded08:55
seb128is cheese working without camerabin?08:56
cassidythey do ship cheese but I don't know the details08:56
pittiseb128: I thought Fedora has the very same large patch to -good to move some codecs to it for empathy?08:56
seb128pitti, right, I'm wondering if they move camerabin as well08:56
seb128we didn't so far since empathy was not needing it08:56
pittihttp://www.fedora.org/ - WTF?08:57
seb128pitti, it's fedoraproject ;-)08:57
pittiyes, I know, but above is still a "WTF" :)08:57
seb128see why you should not use fedora :p08:57
seb128see what they do !08:58
vishpitti: can i quote you on that? ;)09:00
alex3fmvo, hi!09:05
alex3ftwo mails from me are in queue, one with  backend-refactor changes, second with vuntz meeting09:06
alex3fplease look at them :)09:06
mvoalex3f: indeed, sorry for the delay, I check it out now09:08
alex3fmvo, no problem, I know you have a busy schedule09:08
alex3fI'm sorry to push it09:08
chrisccoulson pitti - lol @ www.fedora.org ;)09:08
chrisccoulsondefinitely a "WTF"09:09
mvoalex3f: no worries, pushing it is fine09:09
pittiseb128: would you be able to run the meeting today?09:09
seb128pitti, yes09:09
pittiseb128: I have an UDW talk this evening, and need to do some errands before that09:10
seb128hum ok09:10
pittiseb128: appreciated, thanks!09:10
seb128pitti, I wanted to discuss demoting cheese, pitivi on the CD, demoting gnome-themes09:10
pittiseb128: preping the wiki page now, and sending reminder09:10
seb128but I guess we can discuss that off meeting09:10
pittiseb128: if you want my opinion: +1 for demoting cheese (if possible with empathy0), I'd prefer to not ship pitivi, but don't have a hard objection; demoting gnome-themes> no opinion09:11
mvolol^2 @ fedora.org09:11
seb128pitti, cheese is not building because it depends on mx, clutter, clutter-gst, clutter-gesture09:12
pittiyeah, I remember09:12
seb128so demoting will allow it to build09:12
seb128then if somebody needs it back into main he,she will need to mir those and argue in favor09:12
seb128clutter and clutter-gst are probably fine09:12
pitti-- oneiric/main build deps on libcheese-gtk-dev:09:13
seb128but I'm really annoyed about the mx depends09:13
pittithat's it09:13
seb128then camerabin is a stopper09:13
pittiyeah, we so much need yet another toolkit on the CD09:13
pittibecause moblin is state of the art, and maintained upstream, etc :)09:13
seb128pitti, right, and it's not even used there, I've asked ev to drop the depends in the next upload09:13
seb128cassidy, sorry but adding depends from empathy on mx and on universe gst plugins really sucks :-(09:14
seb128cassidy, we will try to deal with it but I would not be surprised if we stay on the current version for oneiric or roll back to the previous stable serie09:14
cassidyseb128, ok thanks for the info. I'll see if we can avoid a hard dep09:15
seb128cassidy, thanks09:15
cassidyseb128, we just copied a couple of file from cheese for now so we don't depend on it09:19
seb128cassidy, excellent, thanks09:20
pittiah, f15 download done; let's check09:23
pittithey do ship cheese09:24
pittithey ship plugins-good and a plugins-bad-free09:24
=== czajkows1i is now known as czajkowski
seb128pitti, which is somewhat what cassidy was suggesting09:38
seb128that means they depends on code that upstream gst considers low quality code and doesn't want to include in good though, I would prefer having them using well maintained codecs only if possible09:39
nerd_blokewhich project should a launchpad bug be assigned against if a user should be created as a member of a certain usergroup?09:49
kamstruplatest Oneiric updates gives me a hard freeze whenever X starts (on lightdm or plain ol' startx) both with 3.0.3 and 3.0.4 kernels. Is that a known issue?10:09
pittikamstrup: yes, bug 80730610:09
ubot2Launchpad bug 807306 in udev "[oneiric] Keyboard & mouse not working in X - incomplete migration to /run" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80730610:09
pittikamstrup: bug description has instructions how to recover10:09
ogra_sigh, so we now use that uglyness too ?10:10
kamstruppitti: that was quick, thanks a bunch :-)10:10
* ogra_ wonders what was wrong with /var/run 10:10
=== chaotic_ is now known as chaotic
rodrigo_so, is it safe to dist-upgrade now?10:57
seb128it should10:59
pittirodrigo_: check that you get udev 172-0ubuntu211:01
rodrigo_pitti, ok11:02
seb128pitti, I've restarted the retracers, they were down for 5 days without reason11:03
seb128like lock file still there but no error in the log11:03
seb128let's see if they run fine11:04
seb128but I'm wondering if there is a bug like it doesn't clean the lock after reaching an empty queue and stopping11:04
seb128it seems to happen frequently recently that they get a stale lock with no error in logs11:04
pittimeh, that again11:09
* pitti off for about an hour, bbl11:11
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
* rodrigo_ lunch12:20
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
=== dobey_ is now known as dobey
=== m_conley_away is now known as m_conley
cyphermoxgood morning!13:08
seb128hey cyphermox, how are you?13:09
cyphermoxhey seb128, doing good13:09
cyphermoxand you?13:10
cyphermoxseb128: looking through the versions list, is simple-scan staying at 2.32 on purpose?13:12
seb128cyphermox, no, it only got a new tarball recently and require the new unstable vala serie which is not packaged yet13:12
seb128cyphermox, I'm great thanks13:13
cyphermoxah, ok13:13
seb128cyphermox, bluez gbrainy gedit13:13
seb128those should be easy updates that need to be done13:13
seb128if you want to claim some13:13
Sweetshark /win 413:14
cyphermoxseb128: btw, libgdata needs liboauth in main, I filed the mir a few days ago, otherwise it's pretty much ready13:14
seb128cyphermox, ok13:15
smspillazmvo: do you mind if in a few days I move https://launchpad.net/compiz-plugins-unsupported to something else (eg compiz-plugins-unsupported-package ?)13:15
smspillazmvo: I'm going to need that name since I'm mirroring all of compiz on launchpad :)13:15
mvosmspillaz: not at all13:18
cyphermoxhrmm... maybe i better start with bluez when I'm on the laptop instead of desktop.. seeing with all the changes it won't be luxury to give it a good round of testing ^.^13:20
seb128btw I've added comments to the etherpad about the updates that are blocked or need special consideration13:21
seb128cyphermox, others interested: ^13:21
cyphermoxyup, thanks :)13:22
seb128pitti, btw another things I wanted to raise at the meeting, what's the situation with remmina in oneiric?13:22
seb128pitti, we dropped tsclient right? do we still want to bring remmina on the CD?13:23
cyphermoxseb128: I added my "concerns" about bluez in case someone wants to tackle it before I get back to it (probably this afternoon)13:24
seb128cyphermox, ok, I tend to go the other way around early in the cycle, do basic testing and land ;-)13:25
seb128it's easier to get things tested and bugs worked when the buggy code is in and matches milestoned bugs than to block on the upgrade to nail the issues by itself before upgrading13:26
cyphermoxseb128: well, this one has quite a lot of changes due to the new kernel and what they fit into that for bluetooth. not saying we can't land it, just that there are some gotchas and bluetooth is often broken ;)13:27
pedro_hello folks, anybody using evolution + calendar? is the calendar part in evo a bit 'slow' for you?13:28
cyphermoxpedro_: yes, it doesn't crash but now it's slow13:28
pedro_like if you try to switch months on the calendar widget, left part at the bottom it takes like 10 seconds13:28
cyphermoxpedro_:  you did update today too right?13:28
seb128pedro_, hola!13:29
seb128pedro_, yeah, it's really slow there was well (but I didn't update yet today)13:29
seb128(ie still 3.1.2)13:29
pedro_cyphermox, yeah, the email part is a bit slow as always but the calendar is now really shocking13:29
cyphermoxpedro_: yeah :/13:29
pedro_seb128, salut!, how are you?13:30
cyphermoxdo you get an error about a VEVENT provider for google too?13:30
seb128pedro_, I'm great, what about you?13:30
pedro_seb128, doing good as well :-)13:30
pedro_cyphermox, haven't seen that, will check13:30
cyphermoxpedro_: ok13:30
pedro_cyphermox, seems to work fine no error being shown13:33
cyphermoxdid you have google calendars before or just added one?13:33
pedro_tried both ways, refresh an existing one,  then delete + adding again13:34
cyphermoxah, cool13:34
cyphermoxthen I guess it might just be mine13:34
ogra_kenvandine, tickle ... http://paste.ubuntu.com/642635/ ... thats what i see in .xsession-errors with the new indicator-power13:39
cyphermoxseb128: btw, there's still an issue in evolution's assistant, it apparently requires a patch to gtk, or is included in 3.1.9 : https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=65370513:39
ubot2Gnome bug 653705 in gtk "GtkAssistant doesn't notice destroyed pages" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]13:39
cyphermoxassistant == i mean the wizard to create new accounts13:40
kenvandineogra_, that looks familiar13:40
kenvandinei think we see similar errors related to NM13:40
ogra_kenvandine, i see an empty indicator as well13:40
ogra_no menu items, no icon13:40
kenvandineogra_, oh... interesting13:40
ogra_next to the NM one13:40
cyphermoxthat's in not unity right?13:41
cyphermoxNM also doesn't have an icon?13:41
seb128cyphermox, right, there are at least 3 patches to gtk trunk, I will probably do some backporting for those13:41
ogra_NMhas an icon13:41
cyphermoxogra_: ok13:41
seb128ogra_, do you have gnome-icon-theme-symbolic installed?13:42
ogra_seb128, according to dpkg i do13:43
seb128dunno then13:43
kenvandineogra_, oh... unity-2d?13:44
kenvandineah... gtk213:44
ogra_no 3d on arm atm13:44
kenvandineindicator-power is only building for gtk3 right now13:45
ogra_ah, k13:45
kenvandinetedg, ^^13:45
kenvandineseb128, do you know when unity-2d will use the gtk3 indicators?13:47
seb128I wouldn't bother to build indicator-power for gtk213:47
seb128agateau, ^ do you know when unity-2d gtk3 indicator loader will land?13:47
agateauseb128: when my mammoth-sized branch gets into trunk13:48
agateauseb128: I am busy cutting it into reviewable-sized pieces13:48
seb128agateau, which means basically "wait for review"?13:48
agateauseb128: yes13:48
seb128agateau, ok, great13:48
seb128so not worth bothering doing new gtk2 builds13:48
seb128kenvandine, ^13:48
seb128kenvandine, especially that we should probably wait for gpm to move to gsd to seed indicator-power13:49
kenvandineless work for me :)13:49
seb128kenvandine, or does it use gpm? or only upower directly?13:49
kenvandinei don't think it does13:50
kenvandinei think upower directly13:50
seb128ok, so no need to wait on the gpm gsd shuffling13:51
seb128kenvandine, btw did you see the appmenu bug I pointed yesterday?13:56
kenvandineseb128, no... sorry13:58
kenvandinebug 80761413:59
ubot2Launchpad bug 807614 in appmenu-gtk "Aplications do not use appmenu when launched through messaging indicator" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80761413:59
seb128it does it also when using the "run a command" dash entry14:00
kenvandinei couldn't reproduce it with gwibber14:00
kenvandinebut not it occurred to me because i am using the new gwibbewr14:00
seb128well it's not specific to gwibber14:00
kenvandinei know14:00
kenvandinejust one of the ones they referenced14:00
kenvandinei bet it is gtk2 vs gtk314:01
kenvandinefor pidgin that is provided with pidgin-libnotify14:02
seb128seems not14:02
kenvandinewhich hasn't been rebuilt in ages14:02
seb128well evolution has the issue when started from the indicator14:02
seb128not from the application lens14:02
kenvandineoh... indeed14:03
seb128it's not only the indicator-messages14:03
seb128the sound one does the same14:03
seb128or the "run a command" from unity14:04
seb128I'm wondering if that could be a glib thing14:04
seb128like on the g_spawn api which leads to unset the environment or something14:04
seb128weird that it works when running from the launcher or lens but not from the dash run a command on the indicator14:05
=== achiang` is now known as achiang
kenvandineif that was the case it would do it for everything14:05
seb128is there anything it doesn't do it for?14:06
kenvandineit does do it for everything14:08
kenvandineempathy is started via telepathy-indicator14:08
seb128using alt-f2 empathy does it14:08
kenvandineso it must be unsetting that14:08
kenvandinei'll look into that14:08
seb128brb session restart14:09
seb128system load is to 1 with nothing using cpu in top, I hate when it does that14:10
=== zyga is now known as zyga-food
Sweetsharkoh, great I get a ld segfaulting.14:12
=== zyga-food is now known as zyga-coffee
pedro_who is working on the X Intel driver? bug 753994 needs to be look , its affecting the hw cert team14:26
ubot2Launchpad bug 753994 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[arrandale] Display is slanted when using 1360x768 resolution" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/75399414:26
seb128pedro_, #ubuntu-x14:26
seb128cyphermox, the strict depends on e-d-s-common are annoying, it should probably be changed to >=, what do you think?14:28
seb128just got gnome-panel, gnome-applets, indicator-datetime removed because libedataserverui-3.0-0 depends on a strict e-d-s-common version14:29
seb128so the lib had to be uninstalled14:29
pittidoes anyone know whether there's an elegant way of creating unity launchers for URLs, which should be opened in the default browser?14:31
cyphermoxsomething like >= 3.114:31
pittiI could create .desktop files with "Exec=sensible-browser http://foo", but is there something easier?14:32
pitticyphermox: would (>= ${source:Upstream-Version}) help?14:33
chrisccoulsonpitti - what about "gvfs-open http://foo" on the Exec line?14:33
pittior still too strict?14:33
seb128pitti, you can try to right click on the desktop, create launcher14:33
chrisccoulsondoesn't sensible-browser rely on alternatives?14:33
pittichrisccoulson: xdg-open perhaps14:33
seb128you should rather use xdg-open14:33
cyphermoxpitti: thanks.14:33
pittiyeah, that seems to make sense indeed14:33
seb128pitti, be careful, xdg-open relies on gvfs-open but doesn't say so, it's broken on the CD right now14:33
pittiseb128: but doesn't it use the correct thing on e. g. kubuntu, xubuntu as well?14:34
seb128it does14:34
seb128pitti, that was just a warning about bug #80439714:34
ubot2Launchpad bug 804397 in xdg-utils "xdg-open depends on gnome-open, but it's not on the CD" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80439714:34
seb128pitti, xdg-open does test for the running environment and try to use the most adapted command for the desktop you use14:35
seb128pitti, did you see my question about remmina before btw?14:36
seb128chrisccoulson, no beer for you at next UDS :p14:38
chrisccoulsonseb128, whats up? ;)14:38
seb128chrisccoulson, you didn't do sponsoring for the things I pointed! ;-)14:39
chrisccoulsonseb128, oh, i started, and then got tired. i'm doing some more now though14:39
seb128great ;-)14:39
chrisccoulson(and my g-c-c upload to lucid got rejected) :(14:39
seb128oh, why?14:39
seb128like archive rejected? or sru reviewer rejected?14:39
chrisccoulsonit seems that the packageset doesn't apply to lucid14:39
seb128oh ok14:40
seb128need sponsoring?14:40
seb128I guess it's not worth bothering cjwatson to get lucid sets fixed14:40
chrisccoulsonseb128, yeah, i'll just copy the package somewhere14:41
chrisccoulsonoh, my internet is going really slow whilst i've got 4 parallel uploads on the go ;)14:42
seb128some days I hate linux14:43
seb128load is back to 1 and cpu fan is noisy while nothing is showing up in top or iotop14:44
chrisccoulsonseb128, ok, i've put them on https://chinstrap.canonical.com/~chrisccoulson/14:44
seb128chrisccoulson, thanks14:44
=== zyga-coffee is now known as zyga
chrisccoulsoni was going to credit the guy with the upload, but he hasn't got a public e-mail address on launchpad, so i've just put his name in the changelog14:45
cyphermoxseb128: it's probably small processes coming up and dieing before top has a chance to show them?14:49
seb128well, I usually use names anyway14:49
seb128cyphermox, no, I've been doing ps ax > log and diffing the lists, nothing is changing pid or showing up there14:50
seb128doing that a bunch of times14:50
cyphermoxas long as load doesn't go up to 60 to 300 ;)14:50
cyphermoxI've already seen a load of 300 on a mail server, it's scary ;)14:51
seb128the load is not really noticable in normal use, but the fan noise is annoying14:52
kenvandineseb128, both indicator-messages and indicator-sound are using g_app_info_launch14:55
seb128kenvandine, do you want me to pick up on from there and see if that does it with a small testcase?14:55
kenvandineand i confirmed that the env is missing the menuproxy when started from the indicator14:55
kenvandinehowever... the new gwibber does use the appmenu!14:55
kenvandinebut nothing else seems too14:55
kenvandineand... telepathy-indicator launches empathy the same way, and it works14:56
kenvandinesomething is fishy14:56
seb128weird indeed14:56
seb128would be worth downgrading glib and see if that fixes it14:56
kenvandinethe code is basically identical14:56
kenvandineseb128, but launching gwibber from the messaging menu does use appmenu...14:57
seb128do you call it directly?14:57
seb128or is that spawned by dbus or a service or something14:57
kenvandineshould be directly14:57
kenvandinelet me confirm14:57
kenvandineyeah, nevermind... that starts gwibber-service which uses spawns the client14:58
kenvandineok... so it is consistent :)14:59
kenvandineseb128, can you try downgrading glib?14:59
seb128kenvandine, yes15:00
=== chrisccoulson_ is now known as chr1sccoulson
pedro_cyphermox, evolution is sending a blank body instead of text here. are you getting the same?15:07
* pedro_ filing a bug15:07
cyphermoxI'll check15:07
cyphermoxpedro_: nah, looks good here. I got the email with everything in gmail from my work account... Body text, text sig and gpg sig attached...15:10
cyphermoxpedro_: can you try to send me an email to my @ubuntu address, I'll see if there's something we can make out of this?15:11
pedro_cyphermox, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/75059020/test.mbox <- that's what i'm seeing here15:11
pedro_i've opened bug 80937915:11
ubot2Launchpad bug 809379 in evolution "Evolution is sending a blank body email" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80937915:11
pedro_will get a log now15:12
cyphermoxsending via your sendmail/postfix/etc ?15:12
seb128kenvandine, hum15:16
seb128$ strings /proc/$(pidof indicator-messages-service)/environ | grep UBU15:16
seb128$ strings /proc/$(pidof compiz)/environ | grep UBUUBUNTU_MENUPROXY=libappmenu.so15:17
seb128ups, it did eat the new line15:17
seb128but compiz has the environment, the indicator service doesn't15:17
kenvandinevery weird15:18
pedro_cyphermox, i'm not using any local service to send the email just remote smtp servers (canonical and gmail)15:19
pittiseb128: so, I'm still here, but need to drop off for a bit at 6, and will come back at 7 for the UDW talk15:19
cyphermoxpedro_: ok... I don't know what it is at this point15:20
seb128pitti, ok, do you want to start the meeting or should I still do it?15:20
pittiseb128: if you could, I'd appreciate15:21
seb128pitti, ok, no problem15:21
seb128kenvandine, bah, and the indicator transition is no fun if you want to downgrade unity15:22
seb128kenvandine, ok, going for plan B15:22
seb128kenvandine, I'm booting an a2 iso from an usb stick on my nb, let's see if that was an issue already there15:22
seb128kenvandine, then I can downgrade or upgrade as needed15:23
pittijasoncwarner, Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_, seb128, tkamppeter, pedro_: meeting reminder in 7 mins15:23
rodrigo_pitti, ok!15:23
seb128pitti, thanks, I don't have the ping alias handy ;-)15:23
pittiseb128: it's a high-tech plugin :)15:24
pitti(copy&paste from a text file)15:24
kenvandinepitti, reliable :)15:25
pittiwell, it's piped through /pitti/brain to calculate the minutes15:25
kenvandinemeeting summary is sparse today :)15:26
* kenvandine adds partner update15:26
pittioh; /me promotes yelp-tools back into main15:27
pittiit wants to go into universe, needs some rdepends15:27
seb128_ok, meeting time15:30
pittiyay, two seb128's!15:30
seb128_hey everybody15:30
seb128_pitti, took the eth cable for the 10v to do indicator testing on a livecd15:30
seb128_(I hate that the wifi doesn't work out of the box on it)15:30
seb128_(that and IRC that doesn't like eth to wifi switches)15:31
* pedro_ waves15:31
seb128_jasoncwarner, Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_, seb128, tkamppeter, pedro_: meeting15:31
kenvandineme waves15:31
seb128_how is everybody?15:31
seb128_let's get started15:31
Sweetshark .15:31
seb128_kenvandine, partner update?15:31
kenvandine  * some bug fixes coming this week15:32
kenvandine  * indicator-messages release which will effectly kill off indicator-me15:32
kenvandineyay ! :)15:32
kenvandine  * still putting all the eggs in the "shim" basket, which as far as I can see is still not completely signed off on15:32
pitti^ we had some more email exchange about this subject15:32
kenvandinejasoncwarner_ was recently added to the email thread15:32
kenvandinepitti, yeah, josh forwarded those to me15:33
kenvandinepitti, still doesn't look like everyone is onboard with it right?15:33
pittiseems they keep the SRU path in mind, but are still pondering what to use the PPA for; still a bit unclear to me15:33
pittiit seems the PPA shouldn't be advertised in the GUI15:33
pittibut then the original intent of delivering features post-release would be moot15:33
kenvandinepitti, but it still sounds to me like that is what they are trying to do15:34
=== seb128_ is now known as seb128
kenvandineat UDS their use case was u1 syncdaemon on lucid15:34
kenvandinethey really want a way to get the new/fast version to lucid users15:35
kenvandineso the discussion just confuses me more15:35
seb128seems the discussion is still ongoing there then15:36
kenvandinethat is all i have15:36
seb128is indicator-power on its way to the default installation btw? ;-)15:36
seb128questions from others about dx or u1?15:37
cyphermoxno, but comments15:37
cyphermoxindicator-power looks nice ;)15:37
kenvandineseb128, jjardon just responded in #ayatana, it does use gpm15:38
seb128kenvandine, ok, well rodrigo_ said the move the gsd should keep the same dbus interface15:38
seb128so in theory it should keep working15:38
seb128to check though15:38
seb128ok, thanks kenvandine15:38
rodrigo_no, sorry, the dbus interface name is changed15:38
seb128no didrocks this week since he's away to a french conference15:38
kenvandinerodrigo_, eta on when that will land?15:39
rodrigo_the interface is the same, afaics, but the dbus name has changed15:39
seb128rodrigo_, oh, is it? no compat layer or anything?15:39
rodrigo_kenvandine, next gnome release, 3.1.415:39
seb128is that likely to break things in the archive using gpm?15:39
seb128which is in 2 weeks15:39
seb128rodrigo_, when will you be in holidays?15:39
rodrigo_I'll have a look and fix what needs to15:39
rodrigo_sebend of month15:40
rodrigo_seb128, end of month15:40
seb128I'm wondering if we should do a gsd snapshot before the next GNOME if the gpm things landed15:40
seb128but let's discuss that out of the meeting15:40
seb128thanks kenvandine15:40
seb128so no didrocks15:40
seb128I've no seen anything coming on the unity side15:40
seb128they are supposed to roll a compiz tarball this week let's see15:41
seb128tremolux, hey15:41
pittiI wonder what happened to the fairly regular weekly releases from last cycle15:41
tremoluxseb128: heyo15:41
seb128pitti, they changed to one month cycles15:41
seb128dbarth's decision...15:41
* kenvandine really preferred the weekly releases15:41
pittifair enough15:41
pittiless release management, more coding :)15:42
seb128pitti, the idea is that they land feature on a monthly cycle until feature freeze then switch to bug fixing mode with regular updates15:42
seb128let's see how it goes ;-)15:42
chr1sccoulsonwe're nearly at feature freeze aren't we?15:42
seb128the number of updates has been low for sure since natty15:42
seb128chr1sccoulson, 1 month15:42
seb128ok, moving on15:43
seb128tremolux, s-c update?15:43
tremoluxseb128: yep, it's on the wiki15:43
seb128tremolux, did the new design got signed off?15:43
seb128nice to see the gtk3 work ;-)15:44
tremoluxseb128: I think there is still more being specified, but much of it is there in the spec now15:44
pittitremolux: do you think the gtk3 port will land for a3, or still too brittle?15:44
pittijust looked at the spec, certainly very detailled15:44
tremoluxpitti: yes, still too early to tell15:45
tremoluxpitti: the gtk3 port includes a lot of the 5.0 layout, so there's a lot in play there15:45
tremoluxpitti: and agreed, the spec is looking great15:46
seb128thanks tremolux15:47
seb128questions about s-c?15:47
seb128seems not15:48
seb128let's move on15:48
seb128seems we are a bit behind and not making much progress on work items15:49
seb128seems like main topic on the iteration are still default email client15:49
seb128oneconf from didrocks15:49
seb128kenvandine, btw how is the new gwibber going?15:49
kenvandinestill on track15:49
seb128good ;-)15:50
kenvandinethe last thing i want before uploading to oneiric is blocked on a libdee bug15:50
kenvandinethat is being fixed right now :)15:50
seb128when does it land in oneiric? ;-)15:50
seb128oh, you already replied :p15:50
seb128ok great15:50
* kenvandine reads minds15:50
seb128don't forget to update your work items when you get work done15:50
* kenvandine just did15:51
seb128ok, does anyone has extra topics, comment, ...?15:51
pittistill want to discuss pro/demotions?15:52
rodrigo_yes, just to let you know about Thrsday's bug day. pedro_ has put up a webpage -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/2011071415:52
seb128oh, gnome-control-center!15:52
seb128rodrigo_, is that a day to find extra bugs to assign to you? ;-)15:52
pedro_yes this Thursday! everybody is welcome :-)15:52
pittirodrigo_: oh, so you get to work on g-c-c for an entire day for a change!15:52
rodrigo_no, it's a day to fix them in my place :-)15:52
rodrigo_pitti, :)15:52
pedro_is the assign bugs to rodrigo_ day15:52
* rodrigo_ starts thinking it was a bad idea to convince pedro_15:53
seb128pitti, yes, good point15:53
seb128so some things I noticed15:53
seb128- gnome-themes can probably be demoted15:53
seb128(gnome-theme-selected demoted)15:53
seb128those are gtk2 only themes15:53
seb128does anybody has an issue with that?15:53
pittishoudl we remove the package entirelY/15:54
pittiah, no, xubuntu might still want to use it, nevermind15:54
seb128pitti, right15:54
seb128we should at least unseed the -selected binary I think15:54
pittiit's the only thing holding it in main15:54
seb128- we are going to demote cheese at least temporarly15:54
seb128it's not building and needs mirs for clutter-gst clutter-gestures, mx15:55
pittiseb128: g-t unseeded15:55
seb128pitti, thanks15:55
seb128so best to demote it and let whoever want it back deal with the work required15:55
seb128there is also an issue that camerabin which it depends on is on the gst universe sets15:56
seb128 15:56
seb128otherwise I've noticed that we dropped tsclient but didn't get remmina promoted or in15:56
seb128is anybody working on that?15:56
seb128do we still want remmina on the CD?15:56
pittimight be nice for the empathy integratino15:56
pitti"share your desktop"15:57
cyphermoxah, good point15:57
seb128pitti, isn't that handled by vino and vinagre?15:57
pittiah, perhaps15:57
kenvandineit is15:57
seb128remmina is doing rdp15:57
rodrigo_yes, it is afaik15:57
seb128which seems important in some corporate situations15:57
pittiif so, wouldn't miss it then15:57
* kenvandine doesn't see a case for and rdp client on the CD15:57
pittiseb128: so is evolution-exchange *cough* *cough*15:57
rodrigo_yeah, it's a too specialized app15:57
seb128ok, let's keep it off the CD then?15:58
pittineed to run, back in an hour15:58
seb128ok, seems an agreement15:58
seb128pitti, see you!15:58
rodrigo_bye pitti15:58
seb128I said to the pitivi guys we would revisit the decision to drop it from the CD15:58
seb128they ported to gtkbuilder and put quite some work on it and they wanted us to revisit the choice15:59
seb128we should probably do it by alpha315:59
seb128so maybe if you used it before give it a new try and make an opinion on how good it is nowadays ;-)15:59
seb128 15:59
seb128I think that was it from me15:59
seb128other questions or comments?16:00
seb128ok, that's a wrap then, thanks everybody16:00
tremoluxthanks, good day everybody16:01
seb128kenvandine, so it's not glib16:02
kenvandinewtf then16:02
=== chaotic_ is now known as chaotic
cyphermoxbrb, need to reboot my quassel server.16:15
seb128kenvandine, ok, got it16:16
seb128kenvandine, it's the dbus-x11 update from 1.4.8 to 1.4.12 which breaks it16:16
seb128don't ask why though16:16
kenvandineso dbus-launch breaks?16:16
seb128kenvandine, indeed16:17
seb128dbus-launch <something> has no appmenu16:17
seb128which makes an easy case out of the indicator stack16:17
kenvandinei would think lots of things would break though16:18
seb128kenvandine, well it's not exactly broken, it does "clean the environment" in some way16:19
seb128kenvandine, there is no so much depending on the environment16:19
chr1sccoulsonwhat's broken?16:19
kenvandinedbus-launch is dropping the env16:19
kenvandineso apps started from the indicators don't use the appmenu16:19
chr1sccoulsonthat's expected isn't it?16:20
chr1sccoulsonif you launch an app with dbus-launch, it can't access your session bus16:20
kenvandineif it runs in your session...16:20
chr1sccoulson(it has it's own DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS value)16:20
kenvandinechrisccoulson, seb128 narrowed it to something that changed between dbus-x11 1.4.8 and 1.4.1216:21
seb128chr1sccoulson, that leads to have UBUNTU_MENUPROXY unset for the client application16:22
chr1sccoulsonwhere are we using dbus-launch?16:23
seb128chr1sccoulson, well it's not only breaking dbus launch, it's breaking indicators16:24
seb128chrisccoulson, like things open for the messaging menu don't use appmenu16:24
seb128gio does use dbus-launch is some places though16:25
seb128like get_session_address_dbus_launch() in gdbus has16:26
seb128  command_line = g_strdup_printf ("dbus-launch --autolaunch=%s --binary-syntax --close-stderr", machine_id);16:26
seb128well it could as well that it's a dbus change not a dbus-launch one16:26
=== zyga is now known as zyga-afk
seb128kenvandine, chrisccoulson: it's due to http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-utopia/dbus.git;a=commitdiff;h=83799f5a28ca70077e6fb4b06736740ec763fd0016:35
chrisccoulsonseb128, yeah, i was just trying to figure out what was going on there16:36
seb128note that I don't really understand what that change and why that create the issue16:37
seb128but I can confirm that reverting the init script fixes it16:37
chrisccoulsonseb128, does it work if you move 80appmenu and 80appmenu-gtk3 to before 75dbus_dbus-launch?16:37
kenvandineseb128, nice bisecting!16:39
pedro_cyphermox, http://mail.gnome.org/archives/distributor-list/2011-July/msg00001.html <- that might be the issue with evo16:40
seb128kenvandine, that was rather nice partiail upgrading ;-)16:40
* kenvandine runs out for lunch, bbiab16:41
seb128kenvandine, I didn't have to play versions serie, just to upgrade a bunch of things, restart my session until it broke16:41
seb128kenvandine, have fun, see you16:41
seb128chr1sccoulson, trying16:42
seb128chr1sccoulson, oh, and the 1 in your nick is no fun for completion :p16:42
chrisccoulsonseb128, you can use my normal nick now16:43
seb128chrisccoulson, \o/16:43
chrisccoulsoni've been moving between machines this afternoon, investigating a firefox bug16:43
chrisccoulsonsorry, i meant "firefox has no bugs"16:43
chrisccoulson ;)16:43
seb128chrisccoulson, I've read that tb does though!16:44
chrisccoulsonseb128, yeah, i think i get what that change is doing now16:44
ricotzchrisccoulson, hi :), do you plan to upload 5.0.1 to firefox-stable?16:44
chrisccoulsonricotz, no16:44
chrisccoulson5.0.1 is really a mac only release16:44
seb128well I should shut up, current evo doesn't let you set up an account and you can't dismiss the account wizard either16:44
chrisccoulsonthe windows and linux builds are identical16:44
seb128so it's an useless brick on disk16:44
chrisccoulson(to 5.0)16:44
chrisccoulson^^ ricotz16:45
ricotzchrisccoulson, oh. really, i thought it includes some bugfixes from the 6.0 branch16:45
chrisccoulsonricotz, no, it contains 2 commits to fix 2 mac-only issues16:45
chrisccoulson5.0.1 exists for windows and linux as a by-product of the build automation16:46
ricotzalright, thanks ;)16:46
chrisccoulsonbut it's not actually being offered as an upgrade for 5.0 users16:46
seb128chrisccoulson, you should upgrade, what matters is the version number! ;-)16:47
chrisccoulsonin that case, i should just crank the version number all the way to 1116:47
ricotzchrisccoulson, is there going to be a maintainance release for 5.0 or is it cut out like 4.016:47
chrisccoulsonricotz, only for major issues16:47
chrisccoulsonthe next planned release is 6.016:47
ricotzseb128, lol16:48
ricotzchrisccoulson, ok16:48
chrisccoulson(anything inbetween is unplanned, so i can't answer your question) ;)16:48
chrisccoulsonricotz, do you only run the stable build btw?16:49
chrisccoulsonrunning the unstable builds helps find issues such as bug 809384, before they hit the distro :-)16:50
ubot2Launchpad bug 809384 in firefox "Firefox Aurora PPA build fails to load XPCOM" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80938416:50
ricotzchrisccoulson, i am running oneiric ;) so i dont really care about stable at this machine, but there are some lucid/natty installations that i maintain16:50
=== alecu is now known as alecu-lunch
ricotzchrisccoulson, mhh, running 7.0a1 gives me shivers ;)16:50
seb128chrisccoulson, ok, you were right, moving 80appmenu to 60appmenu fixes16:51
seb128kenvandine, ^16:51
chrisccoulsonseb128, yeah, i thought that would do it :)16:51
seb128<smcv> seb128: that commit will result in any environment variables that are exported later in the session startup sequence not being passed through to dbus-daemon or activated processes16:51
seb128confirmed by the debian maintainer who just replied to my ping16:51
seb128kenvandine, have fun moving the conffiles ;-)16:52
chrisccoulsonperhaps we should move the dbus one ;)16:52
chrisccoulsonkenvandine, i can probably help you with moving conffiles btw16:52
chrisccoulsoni've had to do it in firefox before ;)16:53
chrisccoulsonkenvandine, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox.natty/view/head:/debian/firefox.preinst.in16:53
chrisccoulsonkenvandine, and http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox.natty/view/head:/debian/firefox.postinst.in16:54
chrisccoulson(mv_conffile and prep_mv_conffile)16:54
seb128chrisccoulson, stop living in the stone age!16:56
seb128debian invented dpkg-maintscript-helper so you don't need to copy those functions ;-)16:56
chrisccoulsoni like to make my life difficult ;)16:56
chrisccoulsonseb128, is that available in lucid?16:56
seb128dpkg-maintscript-helper mv_conffile16:56
seb128chrisccoulson, what did I say about the stone age? ;-)16:57
chrisccoulsonseb128, i need my packaging to work in lucid too ;)16:57
seb128but yeah, you have a point, I think it's newer than lucid16:57
seb128but for appmenu in oneiric that should be good enough16:57
seb128mterry, hey16:57
mterryseb128, hi!16:58
seb128mterry, how are you?16:58
mterryseb128, good, what's up?16:58
seb128mterry, do you have any datetime upload pending? did the contributor replied for the ca?16:58
seb128mterry, bug #80941116:58
ubot2Launchpad bug 809411 in indicator-datetime "datetime needs to use evolution-data-server 3.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80941116:58
seb128mterry, basically it needs a rebuild with the new eds but we can as well batch other fixes if there is any pending16:59
mterryseb128, no reply yet and no pending upload16:59
seb128mterry, ok, so I guess we should just do a testbuild and a no change upload16:59
mterryseb128, yeah16:59
seb128I've to run for half an hour but will do that when I'm back in nobody beats me at it17:00
seb128mterry, thanks17:00
kenvandinenice writeup on the new gwibber :)17:38
seb128ok, off to dinner17:42
seb128kenvandine, could you check if indicator-datetime still build with the new eds and do a no change rebuild maybe if you have time?17:43
kenvandineseb128, will do17:43
pittigood night everyone17:59
ricotzseb128, gnome-panel need a rebuild too18:08
cyphermoxricotz: yes18:09
ricotzcyphermox, hello18:10
cyphermoxricotz: hey18:13
cyphermoxricotz: I'll do the rebuild shortly18:14
ricotzcyphermox, thanks, gnome-shell would need one too18:15
cyphermoxyup, I'm following the nbs list18:15
cyphermoxI'll try to get all of those upload asap18:15
cyphermox(trying to figure out why bzr sometimes won't cooperate with me)18:15
ricotzcyphermox, good, thx18:16
=== alecu-lunch is now known as alecu
mterryseb128, heyo -- we're still carrying a patch for bug 205190, which adds "Settings" to gnome-system-monitor's desktop file.  Debian has dropped the patch, but we've kept it.  Mind if I drop it now that menus are more search oriented anyway?18:34
ubot2Launchpad bug 205190 in gnome-system-monitor "Appears in "System Tools"" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/20519018:34
seb128ricotz, hey, it was on my list but it seems I can be slacking and it's already being worked ;-)18:56
seb128mterry, do you work on updating gsm? dropping it is fine, as you said categories don't matter in unity or g-s18:57
mterryseb128, yeah, sync'd on debian and updating to 3.1.  just noticed we were still on 2.28!18:57
seb128mterry, cf etherpas18:58
mterryseb128, i did18:58
seb128but I was pondering doing the update anyway so if you started go for it18:58
mterryseb128, oh I see18:58
mterryseb128, there's a notes section.  sorry18:58
* mterry totally missed the gnome-system-monitor entry18:59
seb128mterry, no worry, but I was unsure about it, I'm dropping that line18:59
seb128mterry, please go for it, I prefer to go forward that hold back18:59
seb128would it be only for upstream binding maintainers being unhappy at us if we stay on the gtk2 ones18:59
seb128it will also increase the need to get gparted ported which is better if we want to be sure it happens for the lts19:00
seb128cyphermox, still there?19:02
cyphermoxseb128: yes19:02
seb128cyphermox, did you see pedro comment before?19:02
cyphermoxafaik that would not be the failure he's seeing though, I backported some later patches that fixed the api changes when I did evo19:02
cyphermoxit was the camel_stream_reset and others19:03
seb128the evo update broke the debian-devel-changes email there19:03
seb128not sure if that's the same issue19:03
cyphermoxif the email is missing it's body, then yeah that would be the same issue19:04
seb128they only display the part after the gpg signature19:04
seb128like the "accepted..."19:04
seb128not the changelog summary19:04
cyphermoxah, pedro_ had nothing at all19:04
seb128i.e http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-changes/2011/07/msg00948.html19:05
seb128that's the format of those emails19:05
seb128evo displays only the accepted.. after the gpg signature19:05
seb128where 3.1.2 was working fine19:05
cyphermoxwhen you read the emails in that list?19:06
seb128when what?19:07
seb128the account I use for debian-devel-changes is a pop one19:07
cyphermoxwhere do you see that, when reading emails of that list?19:07
seb128the rendering is broken for some I fetched earlier today and read which are stocked locally19:07
seb128it's broken for new ones as well19:07
cyphermoxthat's something different but most likely related19:08
cyphermoxtime to "downgrade"?19:08
seb128I see that in the preview widget or when opening the email19:08
seb128"downgrade"? no, it's an unstable cycle, we move forward :p19:08
cyphermoxwill debug from pedro's logs and all19:09
seb128or open a bug upstream19:09
seb128or mention it on #evolution19:09
cyphermoxthere is one upstream too19:09
seb128it's only happening on debian-devel-changes for me for some reason19:09
seb128i.e not a blocker19:09
dobeypitti: btw, don't know if you saw my reply to you on bug #80347519:13
ubot2Launchpad bug 803475 in lazr.restfulclient "Missing dependency on python-simplejson" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80347519:13
cyphermoxseb128: guess its some other part of camel that partly broke, I'll try applying some other commits from git19:18
seb128that or just downgrade to 3.1.319:19
cyphermoxwell that's what I meant before ;)19:19
seb128mterry, do you have commit access to GNOME?19:28
mterryseb128, yes19:28
seb128mterry, the gedit unity list patch got commit approved it seems but I'm not sure the contributor has commit access maybe you want to commit it?19:29
mterryseb128, sure, point me19:29
seb128let me check, it's in the patch header, I noticed the other day but got sidetracked19:29
seb128just thinking about it because you updated it in your update ;-)19:30
seb128mterry, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=65347019:30
ubot2Gnome bug 653470 in general "Please add Unity Launcher quicklist to gedit desktop file" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]19:30
bigonseb128: around?19:50
seb128bigon, yes19:51
bigonI just saw that you have synced tp-glib19:51
bigonbut a new 0.15.4-1 has just been release19:51
bigonthis last one fix a nasty bug19:51
seb128yes, I meant to sync today's upload but it's not published in debian yet19:52
seb128will try again later19:52
chrisccoulson06_use_application_indicator.patch in g-s-d is so depressing to look at20:16
seb128chrisccoulson, like you mean it would probably be less code to write a proper system indicator?20:18
seb12816_use_synchronous_notifications.patch is annoying as well20:18
chrisccoulsonseb128, yeah, it's a bit of a mess20:22
seb128chrisccoulson, you hinted at UDS though that you wanted to take some time to do desktop work and that you could work on a proper system indicator for that no? ;-)20:24
chrisccoulsonseb128, is nobody working on it?20:24
seb128chrisccoulson, not yet it seems20:50
=== m_conley is now known as m_conley_away
mterryIs update-notifier changing in any meaningful way this cycle?  I'm updating it to gtk3/gsettings/gdbus, but wanted to make sure my work wasn't in vain21:19
=== skaet is now known as skaet_afk
=== skaet_afk is now known as skaet
tedgmterry, I don't think so, but I'd recommend grabbing mpt in the morning to make sure.21:27
tedgmterry, I think that USC was taking over a bunch of things, but I don't think that was on the list.21:27
mterryit has a lot of statusicon stuff still too...21:27
pimHello, i just read that the save desktop session is discontinued in 11.04. But i noticed that there is an option "Only on this workspace" when I right click on an program title bar. But this does'nt seem to mean that that program is only alowed to run in that workspace...22:13
pimso i guess my question is, is 11.04 able to start an program on a specific workspace?22:14
brycehpim, no22:15
brycehpim, that option doesn't control that behavior; rather, it is the alternative to "always visible on every desktop"22:16
brycehperhaps it is not worded very well.22:16
pimbryceh, aah ok i see.22:16
pimok well i have to dive in to devilspie than. thanks!22:17
brycehpim, as a workaround you can use wmctrl to cycle through desktops while starting programs up22:18
brycehat least in theory; haven't tested it myself22:18
brycehpim, something like this in your .xprofile might do it:22:19
brycehwmctrl -s $desktop_number22:19
brycehdesktop=$(wmctrl -d | grep -e ^$desktop_number | cut -b50-)22:19
pimok i'll give it an try tnx22:21
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RAOFBah.  Starting work at 7:30 makes the Eastern Edition crazily far away :)22:33
broderbryceh: for future reference, you can also make compiz do that through the place plugin22:36
broder(i.e. set it up through ccsm or something)22:37
brycehRAOF, try starting work in PST ;-)22:39
jasoncwarner_evening bryceh, morning RAOF TheMuso and robert_ancell23:03
TheMusoHey jasoncwarner_.23:03
TheMusoAnd good $TIMEOFDAY to all.23:03
RAOFOood morning.23:04
RAOFPossibly even *good* morning!23:04
jasoncwarner_:) seems like we have everyone. How about we start with [TOPIC] X update23:05
RAOFThe X server with backported raw-events patch to help DX do proximity effects is about to be uploaded.  Expect to notice nothing!23:06
brycehI've uploaded a new wayland package today23:07
RAOFAs I'm sure everyone's noticed, a partial transition to /run broke udev, which in turn broke pretty much everything to do with X.  This is now resolved (thanks, pitti!).23:08
brycehworking on wayland-demos, which should be up later today23:08
RAOFIn tangentially-related X news, colord is approximately ready; it just needs a final going-over, a git repository on alioth, some review and a sponsor.23:10
RAOFbryceh: Hm.  While we're on the subject of Wayland - do you think it'd make sense to MIR it for wayland-dev, for the purposes of less divergence from Debian in mesa?23:11
brycehRAOF, yep probably23:13
brycehRAOF, staying close to debian at this stage is a wise course23:13
brycehhowever note the package is libwayland-dev, not wayland-dev now23:14
RAOFI think that's what's in Debian, too.23:14
bryceh(the binary package that is)23:14
brycehRAOF, didn't we already get a MIR approved for wayland?23:17
RAOFWe did?23:17
RAOFThat would make it easy!23:17
brycehI'll check.  fairly sure23:18
RAOFThere's no MIR bug on the wayland package.23:18
brycehnope, perhaps I'm thinking of something else23:19
RAOFI think we might also want to think about what to do about the new SNA Intel accel method.23:19
brycehI'm not looking forward to that23:20
brycehpast history has always shown we get innundated with bug reports23:20
RAOFI look forward to switching to it in an LTS cycle *even less*23:20
brycehif they retain legacy compatibility options it might be ok23:21
RAOFAs in: not enable SNA for the LTS?23:21
brycehif they follow their historical practice of ripping out all non-sna code, that'd make it harder23:21
brycehRAOF, no I mean if we enable SNA, ensure users have a way to flip UXA back on23:22
RAOFAh, ok.  *Currently* SNA lives as an almost entirely separate DDX, so for the moment that's ok.23:22
brycehso then you're thinking we could retain the other ddx as the legacy driver for LTS?    -intel-uxa or some such?23:23
RAOFThat wasn't what I was thinking, but if push came to shove we probably could do that.  I was thinking that xorg.conf quirking was still a viable course.23:24
brycehok, explain what you mean by "almost entirely separate DDX"?23:25
brycehxorg.conf quirking is ok, but since we ship with no xorg.conf by default, users are often perplexed at what to do to craft their own xorg.conf23:26
brycehbut maybe we could fold something into xdiagnose to do it for them or something23:26
RAOFSNA lives in the src/sna directory.  This directory contains essentially an entire DDX - it's got loadable module definitions, kms interactions, etc.  The intel_drv.so therefore contains ~2 DDXs.23:27
brycehwhat controls which is used?  environment variable?23:27
brycehor xorg.conf setting?23:28
* RAOF hunts through intel_module.c23:28
RAOFHm.  Looks like it's currently compile-time.23:29
brycehin any case, my concern is that upstream's going to rip out the non-sna ddx prematurely, so if we decide to go the sna route we should plan on keeping a copy of the non-sna ddx around through the lts at least23:29
brycehRAOF, ok so perhaps two binary packages would make the simplest packaging in this case?23:29
RAOFYeah; we could build the source twice.23:30
brycehsounds good23:30
jasoncwarner_alrighty....shall we move on?23:31
brycehjasoncwarner_, sure23:31
brycehoh, one other X thing23:31
brycehnow that the xdiagnose transition seems to be working, and apport hooks are functioning again, I'll be doing another xdiagnose update this week.23:32
lifelessso when will intel ship a stable driver?23:32
brycehwhich will probably break them again, but hopefully not :-)23:32
brycehlifeless, during the year of Linux on the Desktop23:32
lifelessbryceh: oh! 2001 !23:33
brycehjasoncwarner_, ok done - move ahead23:33
RAOFlifeless: Probably about the same time as they release non-broken hardware :)23:33
jasoncwarner_robert_ancell: want to give a quick LightDM update?23:33
RAOFWhen do mere mortals get to play with a shiny new greeter? :)23:34
robert_ancellProgress on implementing the greeter from the design team is going good.  I hope to have it in Universe by the end of today for people to test, then switch it over next week if I can get the MIR / it's stable23:34
brycehRAOF, perhaps he's waiting on a stable intel driver?23:34
RAOFbryceh: There's a trick to that.  Buy *exactly* the same hardware as I do, and it'll magically work for no apparent reason ;)23:35
robert_ancellthere are some bugs that have been accumulating, which I hope are not a sign of too many problems, but will be investigating those now the greeter has proved itself23:35
jasoncwarner_robert_ancell: awesome....is there a mir that needs approving?23:35
robert_ancellnot yet, but there will be once it is in universe23:36
jasoncwarner_ah, ok.23:36
jasoncwarner_can't wait to test the greeter....especially now that lightdm didn't break my /run anymore :P23:36
jasoncwarner_thanks, robert23:36
jasoncwarner_TheMuso: anything you wanted to report?23:36
jasoncwarner_how is Qt/QML accessibility coming? Are all the patches applied and in Unity 2D?23:37
TheMusojasoncwarner_: Only that I have yet to try the new QT a11y patches with unity 2d, due to all the breakage we have been experiencing. Hope to do that today. Ubiquity a11y work is progressing slightly slower than I'd hoped, but steadily. I hope to have something for the installer guys to review early next week.23:37
jasoncwarner_thanks, TheMuso . All patches are applied to Qt, though, right? now it is a matter of hooking in/testing?23:38
TheMusojasoncwarner_: Not sure whether more stuff is needed on QT side, I'd say there will be, but I went through with Florian as to what is still not working in 2D. The recently added patches should help the dash a11y case much more.23:39
TheMusoText field entries still need work from the QT side, which upstrea is aware of.23:39
jasoncwarner_well, great then...23:39
jasoncwarner_Anything else?23:39
TheMusoAs I said, once I get a chance to play today, I'll have a better idea.23:40
jasoncwarner_Thanks everyone...sounds like a wrap.23:40
jasoncwarner_[NED MEETING]23:41
jasoncwarner_dang...not ned meeting... [END MEETING]23:41
brycehthe Ned Meeting is tomorrow23:41
TheMusoI wish it weren't so dull in Sydney today...23:41
TheMusoI still need a light on in my office.23:41
TheMusoActually no, its just light enough to no longer need the light.23:42
RAOFHeh.  x220 users find using the 90W power brick rather than the 65W makes their touchpad unreliable?  That's *totally awesome* :)23:43
robert_ancellTheMuso, my light just blew this morning23:45
TheMusorobert_ancell: Oh that sucks, given the density of the cloud over sydney atm.23:46
brycehRAOF, heh you'll like this story:23:46
brycehour landline started having this annoying static on it23:46
brycehwe called the phone company; everything was fine on their end.  Arranged for a tech to come out (big $$/hr)23:46
brycehthen I unplugged one of my laptops, and the static on the phone went away23:47
brycehturned out to be caused by an el cheapo replacement chinese knock-off power supply I'd gotten for the old laptop when the previous (Dell) one burnt out23:48
RAOFYay EMR!23:48
brycehand in addition to messing up the phone, the power supply also caused the mouse cursor to behave erratically23:48
brycehdifferent power supply -> no erratic mouse23:48
TheMusoPower supplies are often overlooked as the cause of various issues.23:51
broderi had an issue once where a laptop was really, really slow23:51
TheMusoNot enough thought is given to just how clean or dirty a power supply's input/output might be.23:51
broderturned out we were using a 65W adapter instead of a 90W23:51
broderand the BIOS was forcing the CPU down to its minimum speed23:51
TheMusobroder: Amazing it even worked.23:51
broderTheMuso: there was a BIOS warning at boot, that our testers, of course, dutifully ignored23:51
broderof course, if you unplugged it and ran off of battery, the CPU spun up just fine23:52
TheMusoWonderful! lol!23:52
brodersince then, i've been hoarding the 65W power adapters and hiding them in my desk23:53
TheMusoCudos to the engineers for designing the laptop that well such that it even worked in the first place.23:54
bryceha few years back dell shipped me some laptops to test, but only sent taiwan/australia power adapters.  One I couldn't use it all; one I could use one of my own adapters just fine.23:56
brycehbut the third, I could  *charge* with one of my old adapters while the laptop was off, but wouldn't run plugged in23:56
brycehso had to shut down the laptop, charge it up, unplug, then do my testing.  >o<23:56
brycehspeaking of fun, O pbuilder, why you sad?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/642978/23:58

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