[03:24] <TheMuso> /cf/c
[03:25] <kenvandine> good morning pitti
[04:01] <RAOF> Good moririririning.
[04:23] <pitti> Good morning
[04:24]  * bryceh waves
[05:14] <pitti> TheMuso: do you know whether powerpc still uses /dev/hda, i. e. the old IDE drivers?
[05:15] <TheMuso> pitti: On ubuntu, probably, but our kernel config needs to be fixed to not use those any more...
[05:15] <TheMuso> Actually, I am sure we do.
[05:15] <pitti> -KERNEL!="sr[0-9]*|xvd*", GOTO="cdrom_end"
[05:15] <pitti> +KERNEL!="sr[0-9]*|hd[a-z]|xvd*", GOTO="cdrom_end"
[05:15] <TheMuso> pitti: Don't worry about it, I hope to fix that kernel side.
[05:15] <pitti> I wonder whether we can drop that for good
[05:15] <pitti> but I don't have a powerpc system to check
[05:16] <pitti> TheMuso: ok, so mind if I drop this? if cdrom still works after that, then all is well
[05:16] <TheMuso> pitti: Just drop it. I don't care as much about powerpc these days, if I get to fixing the kernel config then it works, otherwise it won't work/
[05:16] <pitti> right
[05:16] <pitti> thanks
[05:16] <TheMuso> np
[06:38] <cdbs> tremolux: hi
[06:38] <tremolux> cdbs: hey!
[06:38] <cdbs> tremolux: Sorry again, seems like the delay just got longer, I'm going to Medina. A week + 2-3 days would be okay?
[06:38] <cdbs> for the work, I mean
[06:39] <tremolux> cdbs: of course, no worries
[06:39] <tremolux> cdbs: if you need any help, etc., just let me know
[07:40] <Tommeh> Argh, gnome-ppa's fiddled with all my fonts
[07:43] <AfC> Tommeh: Yeah, I noticed that too. Really annoying. I don't know where Canterell went; not that I'm that upset about it, I just went back to DejaVu Sans like I was used to. Still...
[07:43] <Tommeh> AfC: is there a method to do that for the 'theme', or do I need to adjust it in every app?
[07:44] <RAOF> Tommeh: gnome-tweak-tool exposes that knob.
[07:44] <Tommeh> Magic, thank you
[07:45] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[07:46] <chrisccoulson> it's quiet in here, where is everyone? ;)
[07:47] <RAOF> Raging at sbuild, probably.
[07:50] <Tommeh> Oh well. I didn't have to fiddle with gnome-tweak-tool in the end - ran apt-get dist-upgrade and restarted gdm.
[07:50] <Tommeh> Back to how it was last night.
[07:50] <chrisccoulson> hey RAOF, how are you?
[07:51] <RAOF> chrisccoulson: Raging at sbuild! :)
[07:51] <RAOF> Other than that, pretty good.
[07:51] <chrisccoulson> heh
[07:52] <RAOF> I need to start doing a bit more exercise again, though.
[07:52] <RAOF> But it's cold!  a
[07:52] <RAOF> And wet!  And windy!
[07:52] <chrisccoulson> it's not too cold here, but it is grey and miserable outside
[07:52] <chrisccoulson> as usual ;)
[07:56] <RAOF> I understand that Englishmen actually combust should the sun's rays touch their skin unfiltered by a layer of cloud.
[07:58] <chrisccoulson> lol
[08:00]  * pitti looks at the bright blue sky and sun and shakes head
[08:03] <RAOF> I'm confused.  Why can't sbuild create it's lockfile?
[08:05] <RAOF> Oh.  Because I can't read properly.e
[08:29] <rodrigo_> morning
[08:36] <seb128> hey
[08:37] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[08:38] <seb128> hey pitti, how are you?
[08:38] <pitti> quite well, thanks! even better now that keyboard/mouse work again :)
[08:38]  * pitti throws new initramfs-tools archivewards, works fine now
[08:39] <pitti> seb128: how are you?
[08:40] <seb128> nice that this one got debugged ;-)
[08:40] <seb128> I'm fine thanks
[08:40] <rodrigo_> hi seb128, pitti
[08:40] <pitti> hey rodrigo_
[08:40] <seb128> but I should try to go back to normal hours, I have shifted to late nights and late morning recently!
[08:40] <seb128> hey rodrigo_
[08:40] <pitti> seb128: bug 807306, in case someone asks -- it comes up quite often on the MLs and on IRC
[08:40] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 807306 in udev "[oneiric] Keyboard & mouse not working in X - incomplete migration to /run" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/807306
[08:40] <rodrigo_> seb128, yeah, me too, because of the heat? :)
[08:41] <pitti> seb128: heh, indeed - I already have half my day done :)
[08:41] <seb128> pitti, oh, meeting reminder
[08:41] <seb128> rodrigo_, yes, not easy to sleep early in summer so I tend to hang around later and sleep in the morning
[08:42] <rodrigo_> yeah, same here
[08:42] <pitti> works either way, yeah
[08:42] <pitti> I have the cool and fresh air in the morning, but trouble getting to sleep at 10 pm (still too warm)
[08:42] <cassidy> seb128, so, we are about to merge another branch making use of libcheese for camera detection. Is a hard dep really an issue for you?
[08:43] <seb128> cassidy, yes
[08:43] <seb128> cassidy, until someone moves camerabin to good or its own source it's a no go
[08:43] <pitti> well, I guess we could stay at the current version until that happens?
[08:43] <cassidy> ok, let me ask to our gst people about that
[08:44] <seb128> pitti, right, we will do either that or patch it out
[08:44] <seb128> cassidy, having cheese depending on mx is annoying as well
[08:44] <seb128> but that's less of a blocker, just annoying as a depends
[08:45] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128, pitti
[08:45] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
[08:45] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[08:45] <Sweetshark> Hi all!
[08:45] <pitti> hey Sweetshark
[08:45] <chrisccoulson> seb128, good thanks, how are you?
[08:45] <chrisccoulson> hi pitti
[08:45] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm fine thanks
[08:45] <seb128> hey Sweetshark
[08:45] <Sweetshark> pitti: ups, forgot that: the files are on chinstrap
[08:45] <pitti> Sweetshark: ah, nice; thanks!
[08:49] <cassidy> seb128, seems camerabin will never go to good, camerabin2 will at some point and cheese is going to move to it
[08:50] <seb128> cassidy, ok, well I guess we will wait for that then
[08:50] <seb128> cassidy, do you know if that's likely to be this cycle?
[08:50] <cassidy> seb128, cheese using camerabin2 propably; the move to good, not sure
[08:51] <seb128> hum
[08:54] <seb128> cassidy, well in any case if you add the depends to empathy you will make distributors job hard until those issues are sorted, which might take a while
[08:55] <cassidy> seb128, I think most distros already ship Cheese by default actually
[08:55] <seb128> debian and ubuntu don't at least
[08:55] <seb128> but I'm surprised fedora ships with non good codecs by default
[08:55] <pitti> Sweetshark: uploaded
[08:56] <seb128> is cheese working without camerabin?
[08:56] <cassidy> they do ship cheese but I don't know the details
[08:56] <pitti> seb128: I thought Fedora has the very same large patch to -good to move some codecs to it for empathy?
[08:56] <seb128> pitti, right, I'm wondering if they move camerabin as well
[08:56] <seb128> we didn't so far since empathy was not needing it
[08:57] <pitti> http://www.fedora.org/ - WTF?
[08:57] <seb128> pitti, it's fedoraproject ;-)
[08:57] <pitti> yes, I know, but above is still a "WTF" :)
[08:57] <seb128> indeed
[08:57] <seb128> see why you should not use fedora :p
[08:58] <seb128> see what they do !
[08:58] <seb128> ;-)
[09:00] <vish> pitti: can i quote you on that? ;)
[09:05] <alex3f> mvo, hi!
[09:06] <alex3f> two mails from me are in queue, one with  backend-refactor changes, second with vuntz meeting
[09:06] <alex3f> please look at them :)
[09:08] <mvo> alex3f: indeed, sorry for the delay, I check it out now
[09:08] <alex3f> mvo, no problem, I know you have a busy schedule
[09:08] <alex3f> I'm sorry to push it
[09:08] <chrisccoulson>  pitti - lol @ www.fedora.org ;)
[09:09] <chrisccoulson> definitely a "WTF"
[09:09] <mvo> alex3f: no worries, pushing it is fine
[09:09] <pitti> seb128: would you be able to run the meeting today?
[09:09] <seb128> pitti, yes
[09:10] <pitti> seb128: I have an UDW talk this evening, and need to do some errands before that
[09:10] <seb128> hum ok
[09:10] <pitti> seb128: appreciated, thanks!
[09:10] <seb128> pitti, I wanted to discuss demoting cheese, pitivi on the CD, demoting gnome-themes
[09:10] <pitti> seb128: preping the wiki page now, and sending reminder
[09:10] <seb128> but I guess we can discuss that off meeting
[09:11] <pitti> seb128: if you want my opinion: +1 for demoting cheese (if possible with empathy0), I'd prefer to not ship pitivi, but don't have a hard objection; demoting gnome-themes> no opinion
[09:11] <mvo> lol^2 @ fedora.org
[09:12] <cassidy> demoting?
[09:12] <seb128> pitti, cheese is not building because it depends on mx, clutter, clutter-gst, clutter-gesture
[09:12] <pitti> yeah, I remember
[09:12] <seb128> so demoting will allow it to build
[09:12] <seb128> then if somebody needs it back into main he,she will need to mir those and argue in favor
[09:12] <seb128> clutter and clutter-gst are probably fine
[09:13] <pitti> -- oneiric/main build deps on libcheese-gtk-dev:
[09:13] <pitti> ubiquity
[09:13] <seb128> but I'm really annoyed about the mx depends
[09:13] <pitti> that's it
[09:13] <seb128> then camerabin is a stopper
[09:13] <pitti> yeah, we so much need yet another toolkit on the CD
[09:13] <pitti> because moblin is state of the art, and maintained upstream, etc :)
[09:13] <seb128> pitti, right, and it's not even used there, I've asked ev to drop the depends in the next upload
[09:14] <seb128> cassidy, sorry but adding depends from empathy on mx and on universe gst plugins really sucks :-(
[09:14] <seb128> cassidy, we will try to deal with it but I would not be surprised if we stay on the current version for oneiric or roll back to the previous stable serie
[09:15] <cassidy> seb128, ok thanks for the info. I'll see if we can avoid a hard dep
[09:15] <seb128> cassidy, thanks
[09:19] <cassidy> seb128, we just copied a couple of file from cheese for now so we don't depend on it
[09:20] <seb128> cassidy, excellent, thanks
[09:23] <pitti> ah, f15 download done; let's check
[09:24] <pitti> they do ship cheese
[09:24] <pitti> they ship plugins-good and a plugins-bad-free
[09:38] <seb128> pitti, which is somewhat what cassidy was suggesting
[09:39] <seb128> that means they depends on code that upstream gst considers low quality code and doesn't want to include in good though, I would prefer having them using well maintained codecs only if possible
[09:49] <nerd_bloke> which project should a launchpad bug be assigned against if a user should be created as a member of a certain usergroup?
[10:09] <kamstrup> latest Oneiric updates gives me a hard freeze whenever X starts (on lightdm or plain ol' startx) both with 3.0.3 and 3.0.4 kernels. Is that a known issue?
[10:09] <pitti> kamstrup: yes, bug 807306
[10:09] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 807306 in udev "[oneiric] Keyboard & mouse not working in X - incomplete migration to /run" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/807306
[10:09] <pitti> kamstrup: bug description has instructions how to recover
[10:10] <ogra_> sigh, so we now use that uglyness too ?
[10:10] <kamstrup> pitti: that was quick, thanks a bunch :-)
[10:10]  * ogra_ wonders what was wrong with /var/run 
[10:57] <rodrigo_> so, is it safe to dist-upgrade now?
[10:59] <seb128> it should
[11:01] <pitti> rodrigo_: check that you get udev 172-0ubuntu2
[11:02] <rodrigo_> pitti, ok
[11:03] <seb128> pitti, I've restarted the retracers, they were down for 5 days without reason
[11:03] <seb128> like lock file still there but no error in the log
[11:04] <seb128> let's see if they run fine
[11:04] <seb128> but I'm wondering if there is a bug like it doesn't clean the lock after reaching an empty queue and stopping
[11:04] <seb128> it seems to happen frequently recently that they get a stale lock with no error in logs
[11:09] <pitti> meh, that again
[11:11]  * pitti off for about an hour, bbl
[12:20]  * rodrigo_ lunch
[13:08] <cyphermox> good morning!
[13:09] <seb128> hey cyphermox, how are you?
[13:09] <cyphermox> hey seb128, doing good
[13:10] <cyphermox> and you?
[13:12] <cyphermox> seb128: looking through the versions list, is simple-scan staying at 2.32 on purpose?
[13:12] <seb128> cyphermox, no, it only got a new tarball recently and require the new unstable vala serie which is not packaged yet
[13:13] <seb128> cyphermox, I'm great thanks
[13:13] <cyphermox> ah, ok
[13:13] <seb128> cyphermox, bluez gbrainy gedit
[13:13] <seb128> gst-plugins-good
[13:13] <seb128> gnome-themes
[13:13] <cyphermox> ar!
[13:13] <seb128> those should be easy updates that need to be done
[13:13] <seb128> if you want to claim some
[13:13] <cyphermox> yep
[13:14] <Sweetshark>  /win 4
[13:14] <cyphermox> seb128: btw, libgdata needs liboauth in main, I filed the mir a few days ago, otherwise it's pretty much ready
[13:15] <seb128> cyphermox, ok
[13:15] <smspillaz> mvo: do you mind if in a few days I move https://launchpad.net/compiz-plugins-unsupported to something else (eg compiz-plugins-unsupported-package ?)
[13:15] <smspillaz> mvo: I'm going to need that name since I'm mirroring all of compiz on launchpad :)
[13:18] <mvo> smspillaz: not at all
[13:20] <cyphermox> hrmm... maybe i better start with bluez when I'm on the laptop instead of desktop.. seeing with all the changes it won't be luxury to give it a good round of testing ^.^
[13:21] <seb128> btw I've added comments to the etherpad about the updates that are blocked or need special consideration
[13:21] <seb128> cyphermox, others interested: ^
[13:22] <cyphermox> yup, thanks :)
[13:22] <seb128> pitti, btw another things I wanted to raise at the meeting, what's the situation with remmina in oneiric?
[13:23] <seb128> pitti, we dropped tsclient right? do we still want to bring remmina on the CD?
[13:24] <cyphermox> seb128: I added my "concerns" about bluez in case someone wants to tackle it before I get back to it (probably this afternoon)
[13:25] <seb128> cyphermox, ok, I tend to go the other way around early in the cycle, do basic testing and land ;-)
[13:26] <seb128> it's easier to get things tested and bugs worked when the buggy code is in and matches milestoned bugs than to block on the upgrade to nail the issues by itself before upgrading
[13:26] <seb128> uploading
[13:27] <cyphermox> seb128: well, this one has quite a lot of changes due to the new kernel and what they fit into that for bluetooth. not saying we can't land it, just that there are some gotchas and bluetooth is often broken ;)
[13:28] <pedro_> hello folks, anybody using evolution + calendar? is the calendar part in evo a bit 'slow' for you?
[13:28] <cyphermox> pedro_: yes, it doesn't crash but now it's slow
[13:28] <pedro_> like if you try to switch months on the calendar widget, left part at the bottom it takes like 10 seconds
[13:28] <cyphermox> pedro_:  you did update today too right?
[13:29] <seb128> pedro_, hola!
[13:29] <seb128> pedro_, yeah, it's really slow there was well (but I didn't update yet today)
[13:29] <seb128> (ie still 3.1.2)
[13:29] <pedro_> cyphermox, yeah, the email part is a bit slow as always but the calendar is now really shocking
[13:29] <cyphermox> pedro_: yeah :/
[13:30] <pedro_> seb128, salut!, how are you?
[13:30] <cyphermox> do you get an error about a VEVENT provider for google too?
[13:30] <seb128> pedro_, I'm great, what about you?
[13:30] <pedro_> seb128, doing good as well :-)
[13:30] <pedro_> cyphermox, haven't seen that, will check
[13:30] <cyphermox> pedro_: ok
[13:33] <pedro_> cyphermox, seems to work fine no error being shown
[13:33] <cyphermox> ok
[13:33] <cyphermox> did you have google calendars before or just added one?
[13:34] <pedro_> tried both ways, refresh an existing one,  then delete + adding again
[13:34] <cyphermox> ah, cool
[13:34] <cyphermox> then I guess it might just be mine
[13:39] <ogra_> kenvandine, tickle ... http://paste.ubuntu.com/642635/ ... thats what i see in .xsession-errors with the new indicator-power
[13:39] <cyphermox> seb128: btw, there's still an issue in evolution's assistant, it apparently requires a patch to gtk, or is included in 3.1.9 : https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=653705
[13:39] <ubot2> Gnome bug 653705 in gtk "GtkAssistant doesn't notice destroyed pages" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
[13:40] <cyphermox> assistant == i mean the wizard to create new accounts
[13:40] <kenvandine> ogra_, that looks familiar
[13:40] <kenvandine> i think we see similar errors related to NM
[13:40] <ogra_> kenvandine, i see an empty indicator as well
[13:40] <ogra_> no menu items, no icon
[13:40] <kenvandine> ogra_, oh... interesting
[13:40] <ogra_> next to the NM one
[13:41] <cyphermox> that's in not unity right?
[13:41] <ogra_> unity-2d
[13:41] <cyphermox> ok
[13:41] <cyphermox> NM also doesn't have an icon?
[13:41] <seb128> cyphermox, right, there are at least 3 patches to gtk trunk, I will probably do some backporting for those
[13:41] <ogra_> NMhas an icon
[13:41] <cyphermox> ogra_: ok
[13:42] <seb128> ogra_, do you have gnome-icon-theme-symbolic installed?
[13:43] <ogra_> seb128, according to dpkg i do
[13:43] <ogra_> 3.0.0-2
[13:43] <seb128> ok
[13:43] <seb128> dunno then
[13:44] <kenvandine> ogra_, oh... unity-2d?
[13:44] <ogra_> yes
[13:44] <kenvandine> ah... gtk2
[13:44] <ogra_> no 3d on arm atm
[13:45] <kenvandine> indicator-power is only building for gtk3 right now
[13:45] <ogra_> ah, k
[13:45] <kenvandine> tedg, ^^
[13:47] <kenvandine> seb128, do you know when unity-2d will use the gtk3 indicators?
[13:47] <seb128> soon
[13:47] <seb128> I wouldn't bother to build indicator-power for gtk2
[13:47] <seb128> agateau, ^ do you know when unity-2d gtk3 indicator loader will land?
[13:48] <agateau> seb128: when my mammoth-sized branch gets into trunk
[13:48] <agateau> seb128: I am busy cutting it into reviewable-sized pieces
[13:48] <seb128> agateau, which means basically "wait for review"?
[13:48] <agateau> seb128: yes
[13:48] <seb128> agateau, ok, great
[13:48] <seb128> so not worth bothering doing new gtk2 builds
[13:48] <seb128> kenvandine, ^
[13:48] <kenvandine> cool
[13:49] <seb128> kenvandine, especially that we should probably wait for gpm to move to gsd to seed indicator-power
[13:49] <kenvandine> less work for me :)
[13:49] <seb128> kenvandine, or does it use gpm? or only upower directly?
[13:50] <kenvandine> i don't think it does
[13:50] <kenvandine> i think upower directly
[13:51] <seb128> ok, so no need to wait on the gpm gsd shuffling
[13:56] <seb128> kenvandine, btw did you see the appmenu bug I pointed yesterday?
[13:58] <kenvandine> seb128, no... sorry
[13:58] <kenvandine> link?
[13:59] <kenvandine> bug 807614
[13:59] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 807614 in appmenu-gtk "Aplications do not use appmenu when launched through messaging indicator" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/807614
[13:59] <kenvandine> ?
[13:59] <seb128> yes
[14:00] <seb128> it does it also when using the "run a command" dash entry
[14:00] <kenvandine> interesting
[14:00] <kenvandine> i couldn't reproduce it with gwibber
[14:00] <kenvandine> but not it occurred to me because i am using the new gwibbewr
[14:00] <seb128> well it's not specific to gwibber
[14:00] <kenvandine> i know
[14:00] <kenvandine> just one of the ones they referenced
[14:01] <kenvandine> i bet it is gtk2 vs gtk3
[14:02] <kenvandine> somehow
[14:02] <kenvandine> for pidgin that is provided with pidgin-libnotify
[14:02] <seb128> seems not
[14:02] <kenvandine> which hasn't been rebuilt in ages
[14:02] <seb128> well evolution has the issue when started from the indicator
[14:02] <seb128> not from the application lens
[14:03] <kenvandine> oh... indeed
[14:03] <kenvandine> wtf
[14:03] <seb128> it's not only the indicator-messages
[14:03] <seb128> the sound one does the same
[14:04] <kenvandine> ok
[14:04] <seb128> or the "run a command" from unity
[14:04] <seb128> I'm wondering if that could be a glib thing
[14:04] <seb128> like on the g_spawn api which leads to unset the environment or something
[14:05] <seb128> weird that it works when running from the launcher or lens but not from the dash run a command on the indicator
[14:05] <seb128> or
[14:05] <kenvandine> if that was the case it would do it for everything
[14:06] <seb128> is there anything it doesn't do it for?
[14:07] <kenvandine> empathy
[14:07] <kenvandine> oh!
[14:08] <kenvandine> haha
[14:08] <kenvandine> it does do it for everything
[14:08] <kenvandine> empathy is started via telepathy-indicator
[14:08] <kenvandine> :)
[14:08] <seb128> ;-)
[14:08] <seb128> using alt-f2 empathy does it
[14:08] <kenvandine> right
[14:08] <kenvandine> so it must be unsetting that
[14:08] <kenvandine> i'll look into that
[14:08] <seb128> thanks
[14:09] <seb128> brb session restart
[14:10] <seb128> system load is to 1 with nothing using cpu in top, I hate when it does that
[14:12] <Sweetshark> oh, great I get a ld segfaulting.
[14:26] <pedro_> who is working on the X Intel driver? bug 753994 needs to be look , its affecting the hw cert team
[14:26] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 753994 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[arrandale] Display is slanted when using 1360x768 resolution" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/753994
[14:26] <seb128> pedro_, #ubuntu-x
[14:28] <seb128> cyphermox, the strict depends on e-d-s-common are annoying, it should probably be changed to >=, what do you think?
[14:29] <seb128> just got gnome-panel, gnome-applets, indicator-datetime removed because libedataserverui-3.0-0 depends on a strict e-d-s-common version
[14:29] <seb128> so the lib had to be uninstalled
[14:31] <cyphermox> yeah
[14:31] <pitti> does anyone know whether there's an elegant way of creating unity launchers for URLs, which should be opened in the default browser?
[14:31] <cyphermox> something like >= 3.1
[14:32] <pitti> I could create .desktop files with "Exec=sensible-browser http://foo", but is there something easier?
[14:33] <pitti> cyphermox: would (>= ${source:Upstream-Version}) help?
[14:33] <chrisccoulson> pitti - what about "gvfs-open http://foo" on the Exec line?
[14:33] <pitti> or still too strict?
[14:33] <seb128> pitti, you can try to right click on the desktop, create launcher
[14:33] <chrisccoulson> doesn't sensible-browser rely on alternatives?
[14:33] <pitti> chrisccoulson: xdg-open perhaps
[14:33] <seb128> you should rather use xdg-open
[14:33] <cyphermox> pitti: thanks.
[14:33] <pitti> yeah, that seems to make sense indeed
[14:33] <seb128> pitti, be careful, xdg-open relies on gvfs-open but doesn't say so, it's broken on the CD right now
[14:34] <pitti> seb128: but doesn't it use the correct thing on e. g. kubuntu, xubuntu as well?
[14:34] <seb128> it does
[14:34] <seb128> pitti, that was just a warning about bug #804397
[14:34] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 804397 in xdg-utils "xdg-open depends on gnome-open, but it's not on the CD" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804397
[14:35] <seb128> pitti, xdg-open does test for the running environment and try to use the most adapted command for the desktop you use
[14:36] <seb128> pitti, did you see my question about remmina before btw?
[14:38] <seb128> chrisccoulson, no beer for you at next UDS :p
[14:38] <chrisccoulson> seb128, whats up? ;)
[14:39] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you didn't do sponsoring for the things I pointed! ;-)
[14:39] <chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, i started, and then got tired. i'm doing some more now though
[14:39] <seb128> great ;-)
[14:39] <chrisccoulson> (and my g-c-c upload to lucid got rejected) :(
[14:39] <seb128> oh, why?
[14:39] <seb128> like archive rejected? or sru reviewer rejected?
[14:39] <chrisccoulson> it seems that the packageset doesn't apply to lucid
[14:40] <seb128> oh ok
[14:40] <seb128> need sponsoring?
[14:40] <seb128> I guess it's not worth bothering cjwatson to get lucid sets fixed
[14:41] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i'll just copy the package somewhere
[14:42] <chrisccoulson> oh, my internet is going really slow whilst i've got 4 parallel uploads on the go ;)
[14:43] <seb128> some days I hate linux
[14:44] <seb128> load is back to 1 and cpu fan is noisy while nothing is showing up in top or iotop
[14:44] <chrisccoulson> seb128, ok, i've put them on https://chinstrap.canonical.com/~chrisccoulson/
[14:44] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
[14:45] <chrisccoulson> i was going to credit the guy with the upload, but he hasn't got a public e-mail address on launchpad, so i've just put his name in the changelog
[14:49] <cyphermox> seb128: it's probably small processes coming up and dieing before top has a chance to show them?
[14:49] <seb128> well, I usually use names anyway
[14:50] <seb128> cyphermox, no, I've been doing ps ax > log and diffing the lists, nothing is changing pid or showing up there
[14:50] <cyphermox> ah
[14:50] <seb128> doing that a bunch of times
[14:50] <cyphermox> as long as load doesn't go up to 60 to 300 ;)
[14:51] <cyphermox> s/to/or/
[14:51] <seb128> lol
[14:51] <cyphermox> I've already seen a load of 300 on a mail server, it's scary ;)
[14:52] <seb128> the load is not really noticable in normal use, but the fan noise is annoying
[14:55] <kenvandine> seb128, both indicator-messages and indicator-sound are using g_app_info_launch
[14:55] <seb128> kenvandine, do you want me to pick up on from there and see if that does it with a small testcase?
[14:55] <kenvandine> and i confirmed that the env is missing the menuproxy when started from the indicator
[14:55] <kenvandine> however... the new gwibber does use the appmenu!
[14:55] <kenvandine> but nothing else seems too
[14:56] <kenvandine> and... telepathy-indicator launches empathy the same way, and it works
[14:56] <kenvandine> something is fishy
[14:56] <seb128> weird indeed
[14:56] <seb128> would be worth downgrading glib and see if that fixes it
[14:56] <kenvandine> the code is basically identical
[14:57] <kenvandine> seb128, but launching gwibber from the messaging menu does use appmenu...
[14:57] <seb128> do you call it directly?
[14:57] <seb128> or is that spawned by dbus or a service or something
[14:57] <kenvandine> should be directly
[14:57] <kenvandine> let me confirm
[14:58] <kenvandine> yeah, nevermind... that starts gwibber-service which uses spawns the client
[14:59] <kenvandine> ok... so it is consistent :)
[14:59] <kenvandine> seb128, can you try downgrading glib?
[15:00] <seb128> kenvandine, yes
[15:07] <pedro_> cyphermox, evolution is sending a blank body instead of text here. are you getting the same?
[15:07]  * pedro_ filing a bug
[15:07] <cyphermox> I'll check
[15:10] <cyphermox> pedro_: nah, looks good here. I got the email with everything in gmail from my work account... Body text, text sig and gpg sig attached...
[15:11] <cyphermox> pedro_: can you try to send me an email to my @ubuntu address, I'll see if there's something we can make out of this?
[15:11] <pedro_> cyphermox, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/75059020/test.mbox <- that's what i'm seeing here
[15:11] <pedro_> i've opened bug 809379
[15:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 809379 in evolution "Evolution is sending a blank body email" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/809379
[15:12] <cyphermox> ok
[15:12] <pedro_> will get a log now
[15:12] <cyphermox> sending via your sendmail/postfix/etc ?
[15:16] <seb128> kenvandine, hum
[15:16] <seb128> $ strings /proc/$(pidof indicator-messages-service)/environ | grep UBU
[15:16] <seb128> $
[15:17] <seb128> $ strings /proc/$(pidof compiz)/environ | grep UBUUBUNTU_MENUPROXY=libappmenu.so
[15:17] <seb128> ups, it did eat the new line
[15:17] <seb128> but compiz has the environment, the indicator service doesn't
[15:18] <kenvandine> very weird
[15:19] <pedro_> cyphermox, i'm not using any local service to send the email just remote smtp servers (canonical and gmail)
[15:19] <pitti> seb128: so, I'm still here, but need to drop off for a bit at 6, and will come back at 7 for the UDW talk
[15:20] <cyphermox> pedro_: ok... I don't know what it is at this point
[15:20] <seb128> pitti, ok, do you want to start the meeting or should I still do it?
[15:21] <pitti> seb128: if you could, I'd appreciate
[15:21] <seb128> pitti, ok, no problem
[15:22] <seb128> kenvandine, bah, and the indicator transition is no fun if you want to downgrade unity
[15:22] <seb128> kenvandine, ok, going for plan B
[15:22] <seb128> kenvandine, I'm booting an a2 iso from an usb stick on my nb, let's see if that was an issue already there
[15:23] <seb128> kenvandine, then I can downgrade or upgrade as needed
[15:23] <pitti> jasoncwarner, Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_, seb128, tkamppeter, pedro_: meeting reminder in 7 mins
[15:23] <cyphermox> yup
[15:23] <rodrigo_> pitti, ok!
[15:23] <seb128> pitti, thanks, I don't have the ping alias handy ;-)
[15:24] <pitti> seb128: it's a high-tech plugin :)
[15:24] <kenvandine> hehe
[15:24] <pitti> (copy&paste from a text file)
[15:24] <seb128> ;-)
[15:25] <kenvandine> pitti, reliable :)
[15:25] <pitti> well, it's piped through /pitti/brain to calculate the minutes
[15:26] <kenvandine> meeting summary is sparse today :)
[15:26]  * kenvandine adds partner update
[15:27] <pitti> oh; /me promotes yelp-tools back into main
[15:27] <pitti> it wants to go into universe, needs some rdepends
[15:29] <seb128_> re
[15:30] <seb128_> ok, meeting time
[15:30] <pitti> yay, two seb128's!
[15:30] <seb128_> hey everybody
[15:30] <tremolux> howdy
[15:30] <seb128_> pitti, took the eth cable for the 10v to do indicator testing on a livecd
[15:30] <seb128_> (I hate that the wifi doesn't work out of the box on it)
[15:31] <seb128_> (that and IRC that doesn't like eth to wifi switches)
[15:31] <seb128_> so
[15:31]  * pedro_ waves
[15:31] <seb128_> jasoncwarner, Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_, seb128, tkamppeter, pedro_: meeting
[15:31] <seb128_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-07-12
[15:31] <mterry> w00t
[15:31] <kenvandine> me waves
[15:31] <seb128_> how is everybody?
[15:31] <kenvandine> great
[15:31] <seb128_> excellent!
[15:31] <seb128_> let's get started
[15:31] <Sweetshark>  .
[15:31] <seb128_> kenvandine, partner update?
[15:31] <chrisccoulson> hi!
[15:31] <kenvandine> yup
[15:31] <kenvandine> DX:
[15:32] <kenvandine>   * some bug fixes coming this week
[15:32] <kenvandine>   * indicator-messages release which will effectly kill off indicator-me
[15:32] <kenvandine> yay ! :)
[15:32] <kenvandine> U1:
[15:32] <kenvandine>   * still putting all the eggs in the "shim" basket, which as far as I can see is still not completely signed off on
[15:32] <pitti> ^ we had some more email exchange about this subject
[15:32] <kenvandine> jasoncwarner_ was recently added to the email thread
[15:33] <kenvandine> pitti, yeah, josh forwarded those to me
[15:33] <kenvandine> pitti, still doesn't look like everyone is onboard with it right?
[15:33] <pitti> seems they keep the SRU path in mind, but are still pondering what to use the PPA for; still a bit unclear to me
[15:33] <pitti> it seems the PPA shouldn't be advertised in the GUI
[15:33] <pitti> but then the original intent of delivering features post-release would be moot
[15:34] <kenvandine> pitti, but it still sounds to me like that is what they are trying to do
[15:34] <kenvandine> at UDS their use case was u1 syncdaemon on lucid
[15:35] <kenvandine> they really want a way to get the new/fast version to lucid users
[15:35] <kenvandine> so the discussion just confuses me more
[15:36] <seb128> seems the discussion is still ongoing there then
[15:36] <kenvandine> that is all i have
[15:36] <seb128> ok
[15:36] <seb128> is indicator-power on its way to the default installation btw? ;-)
[15:37] <seb128> questions from others about dx or u1?
[15:37] <cyphermox> no, but comments
[15:37] <seb128> yes?
[15:37] <cyphermox> indicator-power looks nice ;)
[15:38] <kenvandine> seb128, jjardon just responded in #ayatana, it does use gpm
[15:38] <seb128> hehe
[15:38] <seb128> kenvandine, ok, well rodrigo_ said the move the gsd should keep the same dbus interface
[15:38] <seb128> so in theory it should keep working
[15:38] <kenvandine> great
[15:38] <seb128> to check though
[15:38] <seb128> ok, thanks kenvandine
[15:38] <rodrigo_> no, sorry, the dbus interface name is changed
[15:38] <seb128> no didrocks this week since he's away to a french conference
[15:39] <kenvandine> rodrigo_, eta on when that will land?
[15:39] <rodrigo_> the interface is the same, afaics, but the dbus name has changed
[15:39] <seb128> rodrigo_, oh, is it? no compat layer or anything?
[15:39] <seb128> hum
[15:39] <rodrigo_> kenvandine, next gnome release, 3.1.4
[15:39] <seb128> is that likely to break things in the archive using gpm?
[15:39] <rodrigo_> yes
[15:39] <seb128> which is in 2 weeks
[15:39] <seb128> rodrigo_, when will you be in holidays?
[15:39] <rodrigo_> I'll have a look and fix what needs to
[15:40] <rodrigo_> sebend of month
[15:40] <rodrigo_> seb128, end of month
[15:40] <seb128> ok
[15:40] <seb128> I'm wondering if we should do a gsd snapshot before the next GNOME if the gpm things landed
[15:40] <seb128> but let's discuss that out of the meeting
[15:40] <seb128> thanks kenvandine
[15:40] <rodrigo_> ok
[15:40] <seb128> so no didrocks
[15:40] <seb128> I've no seen anything coming on the unity side
[15:41] <seb128> they are supposed to roll a compiz tarball this week let's see
[15:41] <seb128> tremolux, hey
[15:41] <pitti> I wonder what happened to the fairly regular weekly releases from last cycle
[15:41] <tremolux> seb128: heyo
[15:41] <seb128> pitti, they changed to one month cycles
[15:41] <seb128> dbarth's decision...
[15:41]  * kenvandine really preferred the weekly releases
[15:41] <pitti> fair enough
[15:42] <pitti> less release management, more coding :)
[15:42] <seb128> pitti, the idea is that they land feature on a monthly cycle until feature freeze then switch to bug fixing mode with regular updates
[15:42] <seb128> let's see how it goes ;-)
[15:42] <chr1sccoulson> we're nearly at feature freeze aren't we?
[15:42] <seb128> the number of updates has been low for sure since natty
[15:42] <seb128> chr1sccoulson, 1 month
[15:43] <seb128> ok, moving on
[15:43] <seb128> tremolux, s-c update?
[15:43] <tremolux> seb128: yep, it's on the wiki
[15:43] <seb128> tremolux, did the new design got signed off?
[15:44] <seb128> nice to see the gtk3 work ;-)
[15:44] <tremolux> seb128: I think there is still more being specified, but much of it is there in the spec now
[15:44] <pitti> tremolux: do you think the gtk3 port will land for a3, or still too brittle?
[15:44] <pitti> just looked at the spec, certainly very detailled
[15:45] <tremolux> pitti: yes, still too early to tell
[15:45] <tremolux> pitti: the gtk3 port includes a lot of the 5.0 layout, so there's a lot in play there
[15:45] <pitti> ah
[15:46] <tremolux> pitti: and agreed, the spec is looking great
[15:47] <seb128> ok
[15:47] <seb128> thanks tremolux
[15:47] <seb128> questions about s-c?
[15:47] <tremolux> welcome!
[15:48] <seb128> seems not
[15:48] <seb128> let's move on
[15:48] <seb128> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-desktop-team-oneiric-alpha-3.html
[15:49] <seb128> seems we are a bit behind and not making much progress on work items
[15:49] <seb128> seems like main topic on the iteration are still default email client
[15:49] <seb128> oneconf from didrocks
[15:49] <seb128> gwibber
[15:49] <seb128> kenvandine, btw how is the new gwibber going?
[15:49] <kenvandine> still on track
[15:50] <seb128> good ;-)
[15:50] <kenvandine> the last thing i want before uploading to oneiric is blocked on a libdee bug
[15:50] <kenvandine> that is being fixed right now :)
[15:50] <seb128> when does it land in oneiric? ;-)
[15:50] <seb128> oh, you already replied :p
[15:50] <seb128> ok great
[15:50]  * kenvandine reads minds
[15:50] <seb128> don't forget to update your work items when you get work done
[15:51]  * kenvandine just did
[15:51] <seb128> ok, does anyone has extra topics, comment, ...?
[15:52] <pitti> still want to discuss pro/demotions?
[15:52] <rodrigo_> yes, just to let you know about Thrsday's bug day. pedro_ has put up a webpage -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20110714
[15:52] <seb128> oh, gnome-control-center!
[15:52] <seb128> rodrigo_, is that a day to find extra bugs to assign to you? ;-)
[15:52] <pedro_> yes this Thursday! everybody is welcome :-)
[15:52] <pitti> rodrigo_: oh, so you get to work on g-c-c for an entire day for a change!
[15:52] <rodrigo_> no, it's a day to fix them in my place :-)
[15:52] <rodrigo_> pitti, :)
[15:52] <pedro_> is the assign bugs to rodrigo_ day
[15:52] <rodrigo_> ugh
[15:53]  * rodrigo_ starts thinking it was a bad idea to convince pedro_
[15:53] <seb128> pitti, yes, good point
[15:53] <pedro_> lol
[15:53] <seb128> so some things I noticed
[15:53] <seb128> - gnome-themes can probably be demoted
[15:53] <seb128> (gnome-theme-selected demoted)
[15:53] <seb128> those are gtk2 only themes
[15:53] <seb128> does anybody has an issue with that?
[15:54] <pitti> shoudl we remove the package entirelY/
[15:54] <pitti> ?
[15:54] <pitti> ah, no, xubuntu might still want to use it, nevermind
[15:54] <seb128> pitti, right
[15:54] <seb128> we should at least unseed the -selected binary I think
[15:54] <seb128> otherwise
[15:54] <pitti> it's the only thing holding it in main
[15:54] <seb128> - we are going to demote cheese at least temporarly
[15:55] <seb128> it's not building and needs mirs for clutter-gst clutter-gestures, mx
[15:55] <seb128> gnome-video-effect
[15:55] <pitti> seb128: g-t unseeded
[15:55] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[15:55] <seb128> so best to demote it and let whoever want it back deal with the work required
[15:56] <seb128> there is also an issue that camerabin which it depends on is on the gst universe sets
[15:56] <seb128>  
[15:56] <seb128> otherwise I've noticed that we dropped tsclient but didn't get remmina promoted or in
[15:56] <seb128> is anybody working on that?
[15:56] <seb128> do we still want remmina on the CD?
[15:56] <pitti> might be nice for the empathy integratino
[15:57] <pitti> "share your desktop"
[15:57] <cyphermox> ah, good point
[15:57] <seb128> pitti, isn't that handled by vino and vinagre?
[15:57] <pitti> ah, perhaps
[15:57] <kenvandine> it is
[15:57] <seb128> remmina is doing rdp
[15:57] <rodrigo_> yes, it is afaik
[15:57] <seb128> which seems important in some corporate situations
[15:57] <pitti> if so, wouldn't miss it then
[15:57]  * kenvandine doesn't see a case for and rdp client on the CD
[15:57] <pitti> seb128: so is evolution-exchange *cough* *cough*
[15:57] <rodrigo_> yeah, it's a too specialized app
[15:57] <kenvandine> s/and/an
[15:58] <seb128> ok, let's keep it off the CD then?
[15:58] <pitti> +1
[15:58] <rodrigo_> +1
[15:58] <kenvandine> +1
[15:58] <pitti> need to run, back in an hour
[15:58] <seb128> ok, seems an agreement
[15:58] <seb128> pitti, see you!
[15:58] <rodrigo_> bye pitti
[15:58] <seb128> I said to the pitivi guys we would revisit the decision to drop it from the CD
[15:59] <seb128> they ported to gtkbuilder and put quite some work on it and they wanted us to revisit the choice
[15:59] <seb128> we should probably do it by alpha3
[15:59] <seb128> so maybe if you used it before give it a new try and make an opinion on how good it is nowadays ;-)
[15:59] <seb128>  
[15:59] <seb128> I think that was it from me
[16:00] <seb128> other questions or comments?
[16:00] <kenvandine> nope
[16:00] <seb128> ok, that's a wrap then, thanks everybody
[16:01] <tremolux> thanks, good day everybody
[16:02] <seb128> kenvandine, so it's not glib
[16:02] <kenvandine> :/
[16:02] <kenvandine> wtf then
[16:15] <cyphermox> brb, need to reboot my quassel server.
[16:16] <seb128> kenvandine, ok, got it
[16:16] <kenvandine> woot
[16:16] <seb128> kenvandine, it's the dbus-x11 update from 1.4.8 to 1.4.12 which breaks it
[16:16] <kenvandine> :(
[16:16] <seb128> don't ask why though
[16:16] <kenvandine> so dbus-launch breaks?
[16:17] <seb128> kenvandine, indeed
[16:17] <seb128> dbus-launch <something> has no appmenu
[16:17] <seb128> which makes an easy case out of the indicator stack
[16:18] <kenvandine> i would think lots of things would break though
[16:19] <seb128> kenvandine, well it's not exactly broken, it does "clean the environment" in some way
[16:19] <seb128> kenvandine, there is no so much depending on the environment
[16:19] <kenvandine> true
[16:19] <chr1sccoulson> what's broken?
[16:19] <kenvandine> dbus-launch is dropping the env
[16:19] <kenvandine> so apps started from the indicators don't use the appmenu
[16:19] <kenvandine> etc
[16:20] <chr1sccoulson> that's expected isn't it?
[16:20] <kenvandine> no
[16:20] <chr1sccoulson> if you launch an app with dbus-launch, it can't access your session bus
[16:20] <kenvandine> if it runs in your session...
[16:20] <chr1sccoulson> (it has it's own DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS value)
[16:21] <kenvandine> chrisccoulson, seb128 narrowed it to something that changed between dbus-x11 1.4.8 and 1.4.12
[16:22] <seb128> chr1sccoulson, that leads to have UBUNTU_MENUPROXY unset for the client application
[16:23] <chr1sccoulson> where are we using dbus-launch?
[16:24] <seb128> chr1sccoulson, well it's not only breaking dbus launch, it's breaking indicators
[16:24] <seb128> chrisccoulson, like things open for the messaging menu don't use appmenu
[16:25] <seb128> gio does use dbus-launch is some places though
[16:26] <seb128> like get_session_address_dbus_launch() in gdbus has
[16:26] <seb128>   command_line = g_strdup_printf ("dbus-launch --autolaunch=%s --binary-syntax --close-stderr", machine_id);
[16:26] <seb128> well it could as well that it's a dbus change not a dbus-launch one
[16:34] <seb128> ok
[16:35] <seb128> wth
[16:35] <seb128> kenvandine, chrisccoulson: it's due to http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-utopia/dbus.git;a=commitdiff;h=83799f5a28ca70077e6fb4b06736740ec763fd00
[16:36] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i was just trying to figure out what was going on there
[16:37] <seb128> note that I don't really understand what that change and why that create the issue
[16:37] <seb128> but I can confirm that reverting the init script fixes it
[16:37] <chrisccoulson> seb128, does it work if you move 80appmenu and 80appmenu-gtk3 to before 75dbus_dbus-launch?
[16:39] <kenvandine> seb128, nice bisecting!
[16:40] <pedro_> cyphermox, http://mail.gnome.org/archives/distributor-list/2011-July/msg00001.html <- that might be the issue with evo
[16:40] <seb128> kenvandine, that was rather nice partiail upgrading ;-)
[16:41]  * kenvandine runs out for lunch, bbiab
[16:41] <seb128> kenvandine, I didn't have to play versions serie, just to upgrade a bunch of things, restart my session until it broke
[16:41] <seb128> kenvandine, have fun, see you
[16:42] <seb128> chr1sccoulson, trying
[16:42] <seb128> chr1sccoulson, oh, and the 1 in your nick is no fun for completion :p
[16:43] <chrisccoulson> seb128, you can use my normal nick now
[16:43] <seb128> chrisccoulson, \o/
[16:43] <chrisccoulson> i've been moving between machines this afternoon, investigating a firefox bug
[16:43] <chrisccoulson> oops
[16:43] <chrisccoulson> sorry, i meant "firefox has no bugs"
[16:43] <chrisccoulson>  ;)
[16:43] <ricotz> ;)
[16:44] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I've read that tb does though!
[16:44] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i think i get what that change is doing now
[16:44] <ricotz> chrisccoulson, hi :), do you plan to upload 5.0.1 to firefox-stable?
[16:44] <chrisccoulson> ricotz, no
[16:44] <chrisccoulson> 5.0.1 is really a mac only release
[16:44] <seb128> well I should shut up, current evo doesn't let you set up an account and you can't dismiss the account wizard either
[16:44] <chrisccoulson> the windows and linux builds are identical
[16:44] <seb128> so it's an useless brick on disk
[16:44] <chrisccoulson> (to 5.0)
[16:45] <chrisccoulson> ^^ ricotz
[16:45] <ricotz> chrisccoulson, oh. really, i thought it includes some bugfixes from the 6.0 branch
[16:45] <chrisccoulson> ricotz, no, it contains 2 commits to fix 2 mac-only issues
[16:46] <chrisccoulson> 5.0.1 exists for windows and linux as a by-product of the build automation
[16:46] <ricotz> alright, thanks ;)
[16:46] <chrisccoulson> but it's not actually being offered as an upgrade for 5.0 users
[16:47] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you should upgrade, what matters is the version number! ;-)
[16:47] <chrisccoulson> lol
[16:47] <chrisccoulson> in that case, i should just crank the version number all the way to 11
[16:47] <ricotz> chrisccoulson, is there going to be a maintainance release for 5.0 or is it cut out like 4.0
[16:47] <chrisccoulson> ricotz, only for major issues
[16:47] <chrisccoulson> the next planned release is 6.0
[16:48] <ricotz> seb128, lol
[16:48] <ricotz> chrisccoulson, ok
[16:48] <chrisccoulson> (anything inbetween is unplanned, so i can't answer your question) ;)
[16:49] <chrisccoulson> ricotz, do you only run the stable build btw?
[16:50] <chrisccoulson> running the unstable builds helps find issues such as bug 809384, before they hit the distro :-)
[16:50] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 809384 in firefox "Firefox Aurora PPA build fails to load XPCOM" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/809384
[16:50] <ricotz> chrisccoulson, i am running oneiric ;) so i dont really care about stable at this machine, but there are some lucid/natty installations that i maintain
[16:50] <ricotz> chrisccoulson, mhh, running 7.0a1 gives me shivers ;)
[16:51] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, you were right, moving 80appmenu to 60appmenu fixes
[16:51] <seb128> kenvandine, ^
[16:51] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i thought that would do it :)
 seb128: that commit will result in any environment variables that are exported later in the session startup sequence not being passed through to dbus-daemon or activated processes
[16:51] <seb128> confirmed by the debian maintainer who just replied to my ping
[16:52] <seb128> kenvandine, have fun moving the conffiles ;-)
[16:52] <chrisccoulson> lol
[16:52] <chrisccoulson> perhaps we should move the dbus one ;)
[16:52] <chrisccoulson> kenvandine, i can probably help you with moving conffiles btw
[16:53] <chrisccoulson> i've had to do it in firefox before ;)
[16:53] <chrisccoulson> kenvandine, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox.natty/view/head:/debian/firefox.preinst.in
[16:54] <chrisccoulson> kenvandine, and http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox.natty/view/head:/debian/firefox.postinst.in
[16:54] <chrisccoulson> (mv_conffile and prep_mv_conffile)
[16:56] <seb128> chrisccoulson, stop living in the stone age!
[16:56] <seb128> debian invented dpkg-maintscript-helper so you don't need to copy those functions ;-)
[16:56] <chrisccoulson> lol
[16:56] <chrisccoulson> i like to make my life difficult ;)
[16:56] <chrisccoulson> seb128, is that available in lucid?
[16:56] <seb128> dpkg-maintscript-helper mv_conffile
[16:57] <seb128> chrisccoulson, what did I say about the stone age? ;-)
[16:57] <chrisccoulson> seb128, i need my packaging to work in lucid too ;)
[16:57] <seb128> but yeah, you have a point, I think it's newer than lucid
[16:57] <seb128> but for appmenu in oneiric that should be good enough
[16:57] <seb128> mterry, hey
[16:58] <mterry> seb128, hi!
[16:58] <seb128> mterry, how are you?
[16:58] <mterry> seb128, good, what's up?
[16:58] <seb128> mterry, do you have any datetime upload pending? did the contributor replied for the ca?
[16:58] <seb128> mterry, bug #809411
[16:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 809411 in indicator-datetime "datetime needs to use evolution-data-server 3.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/809411
[16:59] <seb128> mterry, basically it needs a rebuild with the new eds but we can as well batch other fixes if there is any pending
[16:59] <mterry> seb128, no reply yet and no pending upload
[16:59] <seb128> mterry, ok, so I guess we should just do a testbuild and a no change upload
[16:59] <mterry> seb128, yeah
[17:00] <seb128> I've to run for half an hour but will do that when I'm back in nobody beats me at it
[17:00] <seb128> mterry, thanks
[17:38] <kenvandine> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/07/gwibber-revamped-ubuntu-11-10/
[17:38] <kenvandine> nice writeup on the new gwibber :)
[17:39] <seb128> great
[17:42] <seb128> ok, off to dinner
[17:43] <seb128> kenvandine, could you check if indicator-datetime still build with the new eds and do a no change rebuild maybe if you have time?
[17:43] <kenvandine> seb128, will do
[17:43] <seb128> thanks
[17:59] <pitti> good night everyone
[18:08] <ricotz> seb128, gnome-panel need a rebuild too
[18:09] <cyphermox> ricotz: yes
[18:10] <ricotz> cyphermox, hello
[18:13] <cyphermox> ricotz: hey
[18:14] <cyphermox> ricotz: I'll do the rebuild shortly
[18:15] <ricotz> cyphermox, thanks, gnome-shell would need one too
[18:15] <cyphermox> yup, I'm following the nbs list
[18:15] <cyphermox> I'll try to get all of those upload asap
[18:15] <cyphermox> (trying to figure out why bzr sometimes won't cooperate with me)
[18:16] <ricotz> cyphermox, good, thx
[18:34] <mterry> seb128, heyo -- we're still carrying a patch for bug 205190, which adds "Settings" to gnome-system-monitor's desktop file.  Debian has dropped the patch, but we've kept it.  Mind if I drop it now that menus are more search oriented anyway?
[18:34] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 205190 in gnome-system-monitor "Appears in "System Tools"" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205190
[18:56] <seb128> ricotz, hey, it was on my list but it seems I can be slacking and it's already being worked ;-)
[18:57] <seb128> mterry, do you work on updating gsm? dropping it is fine, as you said categories don't matter in unity or g-s
[18:57] <mterry> seb128, yeah, sync'd on debian and updating to 3.1.  just noticed we were still on 2.28!
[18:58] <seb128> mterry, cf etherpas
[18:58] <seb128> etherpad
[18:58] <mterry> seb128, i did
[18:58] <seb128> but I was pondering doing the update anyway so if you started go for it
[18:58] <mterry> seb128, oh I see
[18:58] <mterry> seb128, there's a notes section.  sorry
[18:59]  * mterry totally missed the gnome-system-monitor entry
[18:59] <seb128> mterry, no worry, but I was unsure about it, I'm dropping that line
[18:59] <seb128> mterry, please go for it, I prefer to go forward that hold back
[18:59] <seb128> would it be only for upstream binding maintainers being unhappy at us if we stay on the gtk2 ones
[19:00] <seb128> it will also increase the need to get gparted ported which is better if we want to be sure it happens for the lts
[19:00] <mterry> k
[19:02] <seb128> cyphermox, still there?
[19:02] <cyphermox> seb128: yes
[19:02] <seb128> cyphermox, did you see pedro comment before?
[19:02] <cyphermox> yeah
[19:02] <cyphermox> afaik that would not be the failure he's seeing though, I backported some later patches that fixed the api changes when I did evo
[19:02] <seb128> ok
[19:03] <cyphermox> it was the camel_stream_reset and others
[19:03] <seb128> the evo update broke the debian-devel-changes email there
[19:03] <seb128> not sure if that's the same issue
[19:03] <cyphermox> debian-devel-changes?
[19:04] <cyphermox> if the email is missing it's body, then yeah that would be the same issue
[19:04] <seb128> yes
[19:04] <seb128> they only display the part after the gpg signature
[19:04] <seb128> like the "accepted..."
[19:04] <seb128> not the changelog summary
[19:04] <cyphermox> ah, pedro_ had nothing at all
[19:05] <seb128> i.e http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-changes/2011/07/msg00948.html
[19:05] <seb128> that's the format of those emails
[19:05] <cyphermox> right
[19:05] <seb128> evo displays only the accepted.. after the gpg signature
[19:05] <seb128> where 3.1.2 was working fine
[19:06] <cyphermox> when you read the emails in that list?
[19:07] <seb128> when what?
[19:07] <seb128> the account I use for debian-devel-changes is a pop one
[19:07] <cyphermox> where do you see that, when reading emails of that list?
[19:07] <seb128> the rendering is broken for some I fetched earlier today and read which are stocked locally
[19:07] <seb128> it's broken for new ones as well
[19:07] <cyphermox> ok
[19:08] <cyphermox> that's something different but most likely related
[19:08] <cyphermox> time to "downgrade"?
[19:08] <seb128> I see that in the preview widget or when opening the email
[19:08] <cyphermox> ok
[19:08] <seb128> "downgrade"? no, it's an unstable cycle, we move forward :p
[19:09] <cyphermox> :P
[19:09] <cyphermox> will debug from pedro's logs and all
[19:09] <cyphermox> brb
[19:09] <seb128> or open a bug upstream
[19:09] <seb128> or mention it on #evolution
[19:09] <cyphermox> there is one upstream too
[19:09] <seb128> it's only happening on debian-devel-changes for me for some reason
[19:09] <seb128> i.e not a blocker
[19:13] <dobey> pitti: btw, don't know if you saw my reply to you on bug #803475
[19:13] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 803475 in lazr.restfulclient "Missing dependency on python-simplejson" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/803475
[19:18] <cyphermox> seb128: guess its some other part of camel that partly broke, I'll try applying some other commits from git
[19:19] <seb128> that or just downgrade to 3.1.3
[19:19] <cyphermox> well that's what I meant before ;)
[19:28] <seb128> mterry, do you have commit access to GNOME?
[19:28] <mterry> seb128, yes
[19:29] <seb128> mterry, the gedit unity list patch got commit approved it seems but I'm not sure the contributor has commit access maybe you want to commit it?
[19:29] <mterry> seb128, sure, point me
[19:29] <seb128> let me check, it's in the patch header, I noticed the other day but got sidetracked
[19:30] <seb128> just thinking about it because you updated it in your update ;-)
[19:30] <seb128> mterry, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=653470
[19:30] <ubot2> Gnome bug 653470 in general "Please add Unity Launcher quicklist to gedit desktop file" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
[19:50] <bigon> seb128: around?
[19:51] <seb128> bigon, yes
[19:51] <bigon> I just saw that you have synced tp-glib
[19:51] <bigon> but a new 0.15.4-1 has just been release
[19:51] <bigon> d
[19:51] <bigon> this last one fix a nasty bug
[19:52] <seb128> yes, I meant to sync today's upload but it's not published in debian yet
[19:52] <seb128> will try again later
[19:52] <bigon> k
[20:16] <chrisccoulson> 06_use_application_indicator.patch in g-s-d is so depressing to look at
[20:18] <seb128> chrisccoulson, like you mean it would probably be less code to write a proper system indicator?
[20:18] <seb128> 16_use_synchronous_notifications.patch is annoying as well
[20:22] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, it's a bit of a mess
[20:24] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you hinted at UDS though that you wanted to take some time to do desktop work and that you could work on a proper system indicator for that no? ;-)
[20:24] <chrisccoulson> seb128, is nobody working on it?
[20:50] <seb128> chrisccoulson, not yet it seems
[21:19] <mterry> Is update-notifier changing in any meaningful way this cycle?  I'm updating it to gtk3/gsettings/gdbus, but wanted to make sure my work wasn't in vain
[21:27] <tedg> mterry, I don't think so, but I'd recommend grabbing mpt in the morning to make sure.
[21:27] <mterry> k
[21:27] <tedg> mterry, I think that USC was taking over a bunch of things, but I don't think that was on the list.
[21:27] <mterry> it has a lot of statusicon stuff still too...
[21:27] <tedg> DIE!
[21:27] <tedg> :-)
[22:13] <pim> Hello, i just read that the save desktop session is discontinued in 11.04. But i noticed that there is an option "Only on this workspace" when I right click on an program title bar. But this does'nt seem to mean that that program is only alowed to run in that workspace...
[22:14] <pim> so i guess my question is, is 11.04 able to start an program on a specific workspace?
[22:15] <bryceh> pim, no
[22:16] <bryceh> pim, that option doesn't control that behavior; rather, it is the alternative to "always visible on every desktop"
[22:16] <bryceh> perhaps it is not worded very well.
[22:16] <pim> bryceh, aah ok i see.
[22:17] <pim> ok well i have to dive in to devilspie than. thanks!
[22:18] <bryceh> pim, as a workaround you can use wmctrl to cycle through desktops while starting programs up
[22:18] <bryceh> at least in theory; haven't tested it myself
[22:19] <bryceh> pim, something like this in your .xprofile might do it:
[22:19] <bryceh> desktop_number=2
[22:19] <bryceh> wmctrl -s $desktop_number
[22:19] <bryceh> desktop=$(wmctrl -d | grep -e ^$desktop_number | cut -b50-)
[22:19] <bryceh> gedit
[22:21] <pim> ok i'll give it an try tnx
[22:33] <RAOF> Bah.  Starting work at 7:30 makes the Eastern Edition crazily far away :)
[22:36] <broder> bryceh: for future reference, you can also make compiz do that through the place plugin
[22:37] <broder> (i.e. set it up through ccsm or something)
[22:39] <bryceh> RAOF, try starting work in PST ;-)
[23:03] <jasoncwarner_> evening bryceh, morning RAOF TheMuso and robert_ancell
[23:03] <jasoncwarner_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-07-12
[23:03] <TheMuso> Hey jasoncwarner_.
[23:03] <TheMuso> And good $TIMEOFDAY to all.
[23:04] <bryceh> heya
[23:04] <RAOF> Oood morning.
[23:04] <RAOF> Possibly even *good* morning!
[23:04] <TheMuso> heh
[23:05] <jasoncwarner_> :) seems like we have everyone. How about we start with [TOPIC] X update
[23:06] <RAOF> The X server with backported raw-events patch to help DX do proximity effects is about to be uploaded.  Expect to notice nothing!
[23:07] <bryceh> I've uploaded a new wayland package today
[23:08] <RAOF> As I'm sure everyone's noticed, a partial transition to /run broke udev, which in turn broke pretty much everything to do with X.  This is now resolved (thanks, pitti!).
[23:08] <bryceh> working on wayland-demos, which should be up later today
[23:10] <RAOF> In tangentially-related X news, colord is approximately ready; it just needs a final going-over, a git repository on alioth, some review and a sponsor.
[23:11] <RAOF> bryceh: Hm.  While we're on the subject of Wayland - do you think it'd make sense to MIR it for wayland-dev, for the purposes of less divergence from Debian in mesa?
[23:13] <bryceh> RAOF, yep probably
[23:13] <bryceh> RAOF, staying close to debian at this stage is a wise course
[23:14] <bryceh> however note the package is libwayland-dev, not wayland-dev now
[23:14] <RAOF> I think that's what's in Debian, too.
[23:14] <bryceh> (the binary package that is)
[23:17] <bryceh> RAOF, didn't we already get a MIR approved for wayland?
[23:17] <RAOF> We did?
[23:17] <RAOF> That would make it easy!
[23:18] <bryceh> I'll check.  fairly sure
[23:18] <RAOF> There's no MIR bug on the wayland package.
[23:19] <bryceh> nope, perhaps I'm thinking of something else
[23:19] <RAOF> I think we might also want to think about what to do about the new SNA Intel accel method.
[23:20] <bryceh> I'm not looking forward to that
[23:20] <RAOF> Right.
[23:20] <bryceh> past history has always shown we get innundated with bug reports
[23:20] <RAOF> I look forward to switching to it in an LTS cycle *even less*
[23:21] <jasoncwarner_> :)
[23:21] <bryceh> if they retain legacy compatibility options it might be ok
[23:21] <RAOF> As in: not enable SNA for the LTS?
[23:21] <bryceh> if they follow their historical practice of ripping out all non-sna code, that'd make it harder
[23:22] <bryceh> RAOF, no I mean if we enable SNA, ensure users have a way to flip UXA back on
[23:22] <RAOF> Ah, ok.  *Currently* SNA lives as an almost entirely separate DDX, so for the moment that's ok.
[23:23] <bryceh> so then you're thinking we could retain the other ddx as the legacy driver for LTS?    -intel-uxa or some such?
[23:24] <RAOF> That wasn't what I was thinking, but if push came to shove we probably could do that.  I was thinking that xorg.conf quirking was still a viable course.
[23:25] <bryceh> ok, explain what you mean by "almost entirely separate DDX"?
[23:26] <bryceh> xorg.conf quirking is ok, but since we ship with no xorg.conf by default, users are often perplexed at what to do to craft their own xorg.conf
[23:26] <bryceh> but maybe we could fold something into xdiagnose to do it for them or something
[23:27] <RAOF> SNA lives in the src/sna directory.  This directory contains essentially an entire DDX - it's got loadable module definitions, kms interactions, etc.  The intel_drv.so therefore contains ~2 DDXs.
[23:27] <bryceh> what controls which is used?  environment variable?
[23:28] <bryceh> or xorg.conf setting?
[23:28]  * RAOF hunts through intel_module.c
[23:29] <RAOF> Hm.  Looks like it's currently compile-time.
[23:29] <bryceh> in any case, my concern is that upstream's going to rip out the non-sna ddx prematurely, so if we decide to go the sna route we should plan on keeping a copy of the non-sna ddx around through the lts at least
[23:29] <bryceh> RAOF, ok so perhaps two binary packages would make the simplest packaging in this case?
[23:30] <RAOF> Yeah; we could build the source twice.
[23:30] <bryceh> sounds good
[23:31] <jasoncwarner_> alrighty....shall we move on?
[23:31] <bryceh> jasoncwarner_, sure
[23:31] <bryceh> oh, one other X thing
[23:31] <jasoncwarner_> :)
[23:32] <bryceh> now that the xdiagnose transition seems to be working, and apport hooks are functioning again, I'll be doing another xdiagnose update this week.
[23:32] <lifeless> so when will intel ship a stable driver?
[23:32] <bryceh> which will probably break them again, but hopefully not :-)
[23:32] <bryceh> lifeless, during the year of Linux on the Desktop
[23:33] <lifeless> bryceh: oh! 2001 !
[23:33] <bryceh> jasoncwarner_, ok done - move ahead
[23:33] <jasoncwarner_> Ok...
[23:33] <RAOF> lifeless: Probably about the same time as they release non-broken hardware :)
[23:33] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: want to give a quick LightDM update?
[23:34] <RAOF> When do mere mortals get to play with a shiny new greeter? :)
[23:34] <robert_ancell> Progress on implementing the greeter from the design team is going good.  I hope to have it in Universe by the end of today for people to test, then switch it over next week if I can get the MIR / it's stable
[23:34] <bryceh> RAOF, perhaps he's waiting on a stable intel driver?
[23:35] <RAOF> bryceh: There's a trick to that.  Buy *exactly* the same hardware as I do, and it'll magically work for no apparent reason ;)
[23:35] <robert_ancell> there are some bugs that have been accumulating, which I hope are not a sign of too many problems, but will be investigating those now the greeter has proved itself
[23:35] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: awesome....is there a mir that needs approving?
[23:36] <robert_ancell> not yet, but there will be once it is in universe
[23:36] <jasoncwarner_> ah, ok.
[23:36] <jasoncwarner_> can't wait to test the greeter....especially now that lightdm didn't break my /run anymore :P
[23:36] <jasoncwarner_> thanks, robert
[23:36] <jasoncwarner_> TheMuso: anything you wanted to report?
[23:37] <jasoncwarner_> how is Qt/QML accessibility coming? Are all the patches applied and in Unity 2D?
[23:37] <TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: Only that I have yet to try the new QT a11y patches with unity 2d, due to all the breakage we have been experiencing. Hope to do that today. Ubiquity a11y work is progressing slightly slower than I'd hoped, but steadily. I hope to have something for the installer guys to review early next week.
[23:38] <jasoncwarner_> thanks, TheMuso . All patches are applied to Qt, though, right? now it is a matter of hooking in/testing?
[23:39] <TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: Not sure whether more stuff is needed on QT side, I'd say there will be, but I went through with Florian as to what is still not working in 2D. The recently added patches should help the dash a11y case much more.
[23:39] <TheMuso> Text field entries still need work from the QT side, which upstrea is aware of.
[23:39] <jasoncwarner_> ok...thanks
[23:39] <jasoncwarner_> well, great then...
[23:39] <jasoncwarner_> Anything else?
[23:39] <jasoncwarner_> AOB?
[23:40] <TheMuso> As I said, once I get a chance to play today, I'll have a better idea.
[23:40] <bryceh> thanks
[23:40] <jasoncwarner_> Thanks everyone...sounds like a wrap.
[23:41] <jasoncwarner_> [NED MEETING]
[23:41] <jasoncwarner_> dang...not ned meeting... [END MEETING]
[23:41] <TheMuso> lol
[23:41] <bryceh> the Ned Meeting is tomorrow
[23:41] <TheMuso> I wish it weren't so dull in Sydney today...
[23:41] <TheMuso> I still need a light on in my office.
[23:42] <TheMuso> Actually no, its just light enough to no longer need the light.
[23:43] <RAOF> Heh.  x220 users find using the 90W power brick rather than the 65W makes their touchpad unreliable?  That's *totally awesome* :)
[23:45] <lifeless> \o/
[23:45] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, my light just blew this morning
[23:46] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Oh that sucks, given the density of the cloud over sydney atm.
[23:46] <bryceh> RAOF, heh you'll like this story:
[23:46] <bryceh> our landline started having this annoying static on it
[23:46] <bryceh> we called the phone company; everything was fine on their end.  Arranged for a tech to come out (big $$/hr)
[23:47] <bryceh> then I unplugged one of my laptops, and the static on the phone went away
[23:47] <TheMuso> Awesome!
[23:48] <bryceh> turned out to be caused by an el cheapo replacement chinese knock-off power supply I'd gotten for the old laptop when the previous (Dell) one burnt out
[23:48] <RAOF> Yay EMR!
[23:48] <bryceh> and in addition to messing up the phone, the power supply also caused the mouse cursor to behave erratically
[23:48] <bryceh> different power supply -> no erratic mouse
[23:50] <bryceh> hmm
[23:51] <TheMuso> Power supplies are often overlooked as the cause of various issues.
[23:51] <broder> i had an issue once where a laptop was really, really slow
[23:51] <TheMuso> Not enough thought is given to just how clean or dirty a power supply's input/output might be.
[23:51] <broder> turned out we were using a 65W adapter instead of a 90W
[23:51] <broder> and the BIOS was forcing the CPU down to its minimum speed
[23:51] <TheMuso> broder: Amazing it even worked.
[23:51] <RAOF> Indeed!
[23:51] <broder> TheMuso: there was a BIOS warning at boot, that our testers, of course, dutifully ignored
[23:52] <broder> of course, if you unplugged it and ran off of battery, the CPU spun up just fine
[23:52] <TheMuso> Wonderful! lol!
[23:53] <broder> since then, i've been hoarding the 65W power adapters and hiding them in my desk
[23:53] <TheMuso> heh
[23:54] <TheMuso> Cudos to the engineers for designing the laptop that well such that it even worked in the first place.
[23:56] <bryceh> a few years back dell shipped me some laptops to test, but only sent taiwan/australia power adapters.  One I couldn't use it all; one I could use one of my own adapters just fine.
[23:56] <bryceh> but the third, I could  *charge* with one of my old adapters while the laptop was off, but wouldn't run plugged in
[23:56] <bryceh> so had to shut down the laptop, charge it up, unplug, then do my testing.  >o<
[23:57] <TheMuso> fun
[23:58] <bryceh> speaking of fun, O pbuilder, why you sad?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/642978/