gamerchick02i'm off for antiques roadshow. old? yes, i am. see everyone tomorrow00:00
rick_h_greg-g: no idea when we'll cross paths again00:21
greg-grick_h_: :(00:58
rick_h_greg-g: yea, we'll figure something out at some point00:59
greg-grick_h_: if you need it by any point, just let me know, and I'll take the time to head to CHC01:03
rick_h_early party greg-g ?11:15
greg-gabout the usual now. I have an employee that needs to start at 8am (so she can get to her second half-time gig by noon-ish) so I need to be there to open the door for her11:21
rick_h_ah, gotcha11:22
brouschnappy nappy11:41
rick_h_brousch: +111:44
rick_h_crap, now I feel like I'm a google ad when I do a +1 in chat11:45
Wolfgerwhy do you even do +1? We've always been a ++ crowd....11:45
rick_h_python doesn't do ++11:45
WolfgerIt doesn't?11:45
brouschgoogle's in your head, man11:48
rick_h_crap! /me runs11:48
snap-lGood morning11:49
snap-lWe were doing +1 before +! became cool11:49
snap-lWe're +1 hipsters11:50
snap-lNice, looks like Jamendo updated their terms of service11:52
snap-lAnd we're about 5 minutes away from the OMC big four of CC metal11:55
brouschcrap, i'm way behind on omc11:57
brouschno assburners?11:58
snap-lNo assburners11:58
snap-lEverything else, though11:58
brouschi'm boycotting12:00
snap-lbrousch: OK.12:02
brouschi need a snappy protest chant12:03
greg-gsnap-l: do you know what the changes were to the Jamendo TOS?12:03
brouschblah blah own your ass blah blah all your music are belong to us blah blah lawsuit12:05
snap-lThey give a small summary12:06
snap-lone sec.12:06
snap-lMostly that artists need to make sure they're  not part of some collective agency (ASCAP)12:07
snap-lthat they can pull out of Jamendo Pro at any time (used to be a year)12:07
snap-land that Jamendo is committed to not using their tracks for things like pornos, political stuff, etc.12:08
greg-gah, so mostly with PRO12:08
snap-land the assurance that artists will keep their music "free" on the site.12:08
* greg-g nods12:09
snap-lie: I'm CC, but also ASCAP12:09
snap-lor I made a CC cover of Rick Astley, but that's ASCAP12:09
greg-gheh, right12:09
snap-lor BMI, or ...12:09
snap-lbrousch: Still boycotting?12:10
brouschyes, until this afternoon when i'll have a chance to listen12:10
snap-lOk, just wanted to make a note in Google Analytics. ;)12:11
snap-lI hope you all like the intro12:11
snap-lrick_h_: That's AWESOME.12:30
snap-l(and by awesome, I mean freaking terrible)12:31
rick_h_yea, 90k military passwords for potential reuse across any facing military sites12:31
rick_h_sha-1 wheeee12:31
rick_h_If there's a high ranking officer in there with 12345 as a password, I'm going to explode12:31
snap-lrick_h_: Brace for it12:32
rick_h_http://www.duosecurity.com/docs/top250gawker.txt better not match up12:32
greg-gyeah, chances are there is one with 12345 (but maybe up to 8 if there are char limits) :)12:36
rick_h_always have greg-g to help me feel better12:37
greg-g'tis what I'm here for12:37
Wolfgeror for the touch-typists out there, a password meeting normal restrictions would be Asdfjkl;12:41
Wolfger(one cap plus one non-alpha)12:41
rick_h_Wolfger: however, if you reuse that password it's all for naught12:42
* greg-g nods12:45
greg-gThank you, Revelation Password manager12:45
* Wolfger contemplates the name "Revelation" for a password manager....12:46
WolfgerI don't want my passwords revealed :-p12:46
greg-gonly to you, my good boy12:47
windowsany one looking for work? OU has a sysadmin opening in the school of business. it's going to me mostly windows work. just fyi12:50
windowsand you get to work with me :)12:50
brouschwe would get to work with windows?12:51
brouschis that supposed to be an incentive?12:51
rick_h_heh, don't listen to brousch, he's a windows worker already :P12:52
brouschBut my goal is to phase it out of existence12:53
WolfgerI'd be interested in that position, but something tells me OU wants a degreed applicant. And/or it won't pay comparable to my existing job :-p12:59
windowsyeah, 4 year degree is a must13:05
windowsworking with windows is always a joy. :p13:07
snap-lSpeaking of Windows: https://identi.ca/notice/7861177313:13
WolfgerAll it needs is a talking paperclip...13:15
WolfgerSpeaking of cutesy little crap... Why hasn't Ubuntu changed the "working" cursor to a rotating Ubuntu circle? That would be pretty slick...13:21
snap-lWolfger: I'm not sure why.13:23
snap-lI'm surprised they didn't use the Atari ST Bee.13:23
snap-lThat way you'd know your computer was a busy bee.13:23
* snap-l is regretting sticking witht eh Atari 8 bit for as long as I did13:25
snap-lmissed out on the classic mac, the Atari ST, etc.13:25
brouschjcastro: which museum were you working at on dinosaur stuff?13:28
snap-lThanks for the RTs13:30
brouschEast siders with kids, how awesome is the Detroit Science Center? http://www.detroitsciencecenter.org/13:31
snap-lbrousch: I don't know. I haven't been to the DSC in a while13:32
snap-lon the order of many many years.13:32
snap-lbrousch: Have you been to Impression 5?13:32
snap-lLast I was there, it was pretty damn awesome.13:33
snap-lthat's been over 10 years now, iirc.13:33
snap-lBut it's a very hands-on place.13:33
brouschwe were supposed to have a family outing to the detroit zoo this weekend, but people are dropping due to heat13:33
rick_h_10yrs and 10 budget cuts later ...13:33
brouschso i'm trying to reroute it to someplace indoors before people just give up13:34
WolfgerDSC is teh awesome13:34
Wolfgerno kids, but I have godchildren :-p13:35
Wolfgerand I love it just for the domed Imax movies13:35
_stink_brousch: it's worth a trip, i think13:36
_stink_depends on the age of the kids13:36
brousch3 - 413:37
brouschi think the animatronic dinos would be enough by themselves13:37
_stink_it's a good alternative for sure13:38
_stink_for the zoo13:38
greg-ganyone know anything about http://www.typemock.com/13:46
greg-gI just got a personal email suggesting we (the LoCo) do a webinar about it13:47
greg-gif you want a free license for it, let me know, I don't think we'll do the webinar as a group :)13:47
rick_h_greg-g: not seen/heard of typemock13:48
snap-lbrousch: There's also the Cranbrook museum, but that's not as geared to young ones, if memory serves.13:48
greg-gbtw, I feel soooo much better with my Photos/Videos/Music now on my RAID 1 enclosure (only took about an hour last night after a couple failed first starts, figuring out the optimum setup)13:52
snap-lgreg-g: Very cool13:57
brouschgreg-g: and in the cloud, i assume14:14
greg-gbrousch: Photos and Music are on my colo, videos not (yet)14:22
greg-gtakes a lot longer to transfer video from laptop to USB drive than laptop to colo over wifi :)14:22
greg-germ, switch than14:22
brouscheven using U-M's ginormous pipes?14:23
greg-gwell, the wifi is artificially limited, and I can't plug my laptop into the ethernet since it is not U-M owned (that is library policy, I could when I worked in the Med School's Dept. of Enabling Technologies)14:24
Wolfgerso Python can do "normal" variable insertion of variables inside print statements, and also C-style formatted (i.e. %s to placehold for string variable) insertion? Why would you ever actually want to do the second of those two things?15:13
_stink_what do you mean by the first of those things?15:13
Wolfgerprint "There are", cars, "cars available."15:14
snap-lWolfger: it's useful for decimal formatting15:14
_stink_ah, ok15:14
_stink_formatting and keeping a string template around for repeated use15:14
_stink_but now % substitution is deprecated, and .format() is what we're supposed to use.15:15
Wolfgerah, I understand the latter. Example of decimal formatting?15:15
_stink_like number of places to the right of the decimal type stuff15:16
rick_h_ok so two parts15:16
rick_h_one, strings are immutable15:17
rick_h_building a string with + is a performance kill15:17
rick_h_never ever do that15:17
rick_h_.format() is the bomb and does all the fancinesss you want in one function call15:17
WolfgerI want fanciness? ;-)15:18
* snap-l looks at all of his + concatenated strings.15:19
snap-lWhat should I use in place of +, then?15:20
rick_h_snap-l: .format()15:20
rick_h_% is gone in pythong315:21
snap-lprint "Sending of " + infile + " with file-type " + data_file_type + "  failed"15:21
snap-lso instead that would be:15:22
rick_h_print "Sending of {0} with filetype {1} failed.format(infile, data_filetype)15:22
snap-lprint "Sending of {} with file-type {} failed".format(infile,date_file_type)15:22
rick_h_print "Sending of {in} with filetype {type} failed.format(in=infile, type=data_filetype)15:23
rick_h_I think works15:23
rick_h_which is generally better since you can do things like15:23
rick_h_data = {in: xxx, type: zzz, size: 999}15:24
rick_h_and just do .format(**data)15:24
rick_h_and it'll match any names that exist415:24
WolfgerNow that is fairly sweet15:24
snap-lAh, interesting.15:24
rick_h_but each time you do + it reallocates memeory and builds a new string15:24
rick_h_so "test" + 3 + "bob" + var3 actually builds 4 different strings in memory15:25
rick_h_and you end up getting one back and the other 3 have to be garbage collected15:25
rick_h_yea, the .format() is also good for bringing all your 'output messages' to a single file15:25
rick_h_and doing things like15:25
rick_h_print msgs.invalid_file.format(**data)15:25
rick_h_poor mans internalization or string changes from client to client15:26
_stink_rick_h_: so **some_dict is how you take an existing dict and pass it into a function expecting keyword args?15:26
rick_h_right, it loops through the dict turning each key:val into kwargs15:26
_stink_that.... is something i did not know15:26
rick_h_yea, very handy for things like that15:26
rick_h_cool when an object implements the dict protocol15:27
rick_h_say you have user.name user.age user.sex15:27
rick_h_you can fill out a whole user page with just html.format(**user)15:27
Wolfgerscrew book learning, I'm just going to ask questions in-channel when rick_h_ is around :-)15:27
rick_h_heh, well like all rules I don't always follow and I cheat and do + if I'm only doing it once in a string kind of thing15:28
rick_h_all my functional tests have "should not be empty: " + str(response)15:28
rick_h_because it's in tests and shorter than the .format() version15:28
WolfgerNow is all that dict-passing goodness peculiar to Py3, or is it in Py2 as well?15:28
snap-lIt's in Py215:31
WolfgerAlso, is there some point at which the size of the dict becomes an issue? I mean, if we're concerned about building 4 strings to print one, are we also concerned that we might wind up passing a 200 entry dict into a print that needs only 1 or 2 of those?15:31
rick_h_well, string operations tend to be looped15:31
rick_h_say you're outputting a csv file or soething15:31
rick_h_you do 4 for each row of the file15:31
rick_h_and yes, dicts can have overhead15:31
rick_h_they'd about 5x more memeory overhead than a namedtuples15:32
rick_h_which is the preferred way to keep data like that if you're going ot have tons of it15:32
rick_h_the dict/object thing is handy since most data can/should be in that format anyway15:32
rick_h_but anytime I have a ton of dicts in a script I start using namedtuples15:32
_stink_what do you lose, then?  some dict methods?15:33
rick_h_well namedtuples are only as big as you define them15:33
_stink_ah, ok15:33
rick_h_so if there are 4 properties, you can only have those 415:33
rick_h_you can't keep adding to them15:33
rick_h_since they're immutable15:33
rick_h_so you can't update the values as well15:34
rick_h_like a counter or something15:34
rick_h_they behave more like tuples, but with pretty names so it reads much nicer than15:34
_stink_right, gotcha15:34
rick_h_data[1], data[2]15:34
_stink_mutability is the key difference15:34
rick_h_it's data.filename, data.size15:34
rick_h_but if you're processing something known, file fields, data on a file you know, etc, it's much better performance15:34
_stink_cool, thanks15:35
rick_h_and thus ends python 101 by @mitechie for the day lol15:35
rick_h_homework is due thurs15:35
_stink_my dog ate it15:35
rick_h_psh, must be submitted to the server via git push15:35
mpiccinatoAnyone using GitHub pages at all?15:40
rick_h_no, I looked into it, but doing it with sphinx docs seemed more compliacted15:42
Wolfgerwait, what?15:48
WolfgerI missed the assignment.15:48
WolfgerAnd now I need Git 101 to submit my homework15:49
* Wolfger cries15:49
rick_h_that was a pre-req15:49
rick_h_how did you get in without it?15:49
Wolfgerdunno. They just let me sign up15:49
WolfgerOK, periscope down and back to work. P.S.: I hate stupid rules on the laptop that prevent the wifi from working the instant you plug a cable in, even though the cable is a direct connect to a device :-p15:52
=== mpiccinato_ is now known as mpiccinato
snap-lWolfger: Are you using VPN? It's likely to keep you from routing crap around16:46
snap-lAll in the name of security.16:47
rick_h_whoa, just got emailed out of the blue to present at 1DevDay detroit17:18
rick_h_anyone know David Mckinnon?17:19
rick_h_or ever been to 1DevDay?17:19
ColonelPanic001never heard of either17:22
rick_h_http://1devdaydetroit.wordpress.com/ and https://sites.google.com/site/1devday/17:28
rick_h_looks like17:28
rick_h_cool, michigan based dev conf17:28
snap-lrick_h_: That is awesome. When is it?17:38
rick_h_No 4/5th17:38
rick_h_Nov that is17:38
rick_h_opening stuff the evening of 4th17:39
rick_h_conf day is 5th17:39
Milyardorick_h_: What would you present? Alot of the topics seems to about Java21:03
mpiccinatorick_h_: david is a good guy, runs the Detroit Java User Group and has setup a couple local dev events21:11
Blazeixalpha-01: hey21:25
alpha-01It works!21:25
alpha-01hello blazeix21:25
Blazeixhey, yep21:25
snap-lHello there.21:25
alpha-01I was told this was the place to go to find local michiganders who might be able/willing to assist me with updating my OS21:26
alpha-01any chance that might be any of you?21:26
snap-lUm, that depends.21:27
alpha-01i thought so, just wanted to get some sort of conversation started21:27
alpha-01what would it depend on?21:27
snap-lWhat OS you're talking about?21:28
Blazeixdo you know what version?21:28
alpha-01i read 11.04 was buggy when you try to thumbstick install it using sandisk21:29
alpha-01so i'd be content with whatever would actually work21:29
MilyardoYou should be more specific about the version you're trying to upgrade from21:30
Blazeixwhat version are you on now?21:30
alpha-01i haven't been able to get a successful install since the first time i did this which was 8. something21:30
BlazeixYou can go to the "System > About" menu, I htink21:30
alpha-01so i figure it is time to seek help from others and swallow that granual of pride21:30
alpha-01i have a netbook so a live cd is out of the question...21:31
alpha-01and while i can get the machine to boot from the usb, it hangs at one point and just won't go anyfurther, gives up, and loads 8.1021:32
snap-lalpha-01: I don't believe you can upgrade from 8.10 to 11.04 directly21:33
snap-lbecause the intervening versions aren't there21:34
alpha-01i've also tried 10.04 to no avail21:34
snap-land you'll likely get messed up21:34
alpha-01explains a lot21:34
Milyardoalpha-01: What netbook?21:35
Milyardoand what CD image are you trying to put on the UDB drive?21:35
snap-lHow are you putting the image on the USB key?21:39
alpha-01sorry for the disappearing act21:43
alpha-01anybody there?21:46
alpha-01somebody, anybody!21:57
alpha-01I am sorry for leaving you21:57
alpha-01I won't ever do it again...21:57
Blazeixalpha-01: don't worry about it, some of us are busy. are you using usb-creator to create the usb stick?22:02
alpha-01"create a usb start up disk" part of ubuntu 8.10 admin apps.22:03
alpha-01so i am guessing the likelihood of finding another michigander is a little less than likely. Know thought that I still heartilly appreciate your effort.22:08
alpha-01ok, different question. what must i do to join an additional room?22:22
alpha-01or channel as i believe they might be called here.22:22
_stink_alpha-01: just do /join #whateveryouwant22:22
alpha-01thanks stink22:23
Milyardo"i am guessing the likelihood of finding another michigander is a little less than likely", I know Flint's a ghost town, but I don't think its that bad22:25
alpha-01detroit is closer, but then again, how many detroiter's use ubuntu, and of that number, how many in this channel right now?22:26
_stink_alpha-01: do you have another machine handy?  one with a CD ROM drive?22:42
_stink_there are utilities for XP (and i guess for win7, not that i would know) that can make a bootable ubuntu USB drive22:43
_stink_might be your best bet22:43
alpha-01i might try that22:44
alpha-01other machine has no internet though so it will take a couple extra steps22:45
alpha-01thanks for the input22:45
rick_h_Milyardo: something about Python. I'm token divisertiy :)22:46
rick_h_mpiccinato: ah cool22:46
_stink_alpha-01: yeah, gotta get the ISO file onto the other machine somehow.22:47
alpha-01the regular install .iso?22:47
_stink_yeah - those USB creation tools always want you to be able to point at the iso file on the local machine's hard drive somewhere.22:48
_stink_and if that machine's not on the internets, you'll have to shuffle it via USB or something.22:49
alpha-01i have that already22:49
_stink_cool.  you just have to get it on the machine you'll create the bootable USB from.22:49
alpha-01ubuntu has an app to convert it to bootable usb form.22:49
alpha-01but it doesn't work22:50
alpha-01it gets stuck and then gives up and boots regular22:50
snap-lHave you verified the media?23:34
alpha-01totally verified...?23:37
rick_h_greg-g: ?? you going back to CC?23:40
greg-grick_h_: yep!23:43
rick_h_greg-g: dude! quit doing awesome stuff :P23:44
greg-galright, email writing time, transition period begins23:44
rick_h_going back to CA then?23:44
rick_h_boooooo! but yay23:44
greg-g:/ :)23:44
brouschwait, moving to california?23:45
brouschalpha-01: there is quite a large linux user group in detroit23:46
brouschsnap-l is one of the board members or something23:46
alpha-01i thought snap-l was from DC23:47
greg-gnope, our snap-l is in Detroit, board member of MUG (http://mug.org)23:47
brouschmost of the active users in here are in detroit/ann arbor23:47
brouschalpha-01: when you emailled me, i assumed you were in west mi23:48
greg-gMUG is going on right now, so that is why he isn't responding, he just finished giving a preso23:48
alpha-01where is MUG?23:48
waldo323we're in Southfield now23:49
waldo323at the engineering society of detroit office23:49
alpha-01I'm hanging out in madison heights and live in west bloomfield23:49
alpha-01yay oakland county23:49
alpha-01well, if tyrok led me astray i may i have to meet up with one of you at some point.23:50
brouschis this still the unofficial MUG channel or did they get their own?23:50
brouschtyrok is the man23:50
waldo323we have one but this remains more active23:50
alpha-01very helpful23:50
rick_h_brousch: mug has its own channel23:50
rick_h_but this is official back channel not to be used on the projector :)23:51
brouschmy dad just got wimax out here in the boondocks between ravenna and sparta23:52
brouschi'm hooking up the rest of his network23:52
alpha-01intrepid ibex is dead, so he recommended replacing intrepid references with karmic in the etc/apt/sources.list and then upgrading which seems to be working so far.23:52
alpha-01not to the reboot yet, we shall see...23:52
brouschhm, risky23:52
brouschhopefully you backed up first23:53
alpha-01he had be back up23:53
alpha-01nothing else seemed to work, so hopefully this does the trick.23:53
brouschi recommend you back up your home dir and install the newest ubuntu. otherwise you'll have to upgrade through 9.04, 9.10, 10.04, 10.10, 11.0423:54
alpha-01tried installing 11.04 but i guess it is buggy with a sandisk thumbstick23:54
alpha-01then tried 10.10 to no avail.23:54
snap-lgreg-g: WHere in CC are you headed?23:55
snap-land COngratulations!23:55
snap-lAnd yes, I'm in Michigan.23:55
alpha-01hopefully after this i can jump to 10.10, otherwise it will be upgrade after upgrade.23:55
greg-gsnap-l: where in CC? or where in CA? in CA: Bay Area (live in SF-city, work in Mt. View)23:56
greg-gin CC: well, working on OER stuff23:56
greg-gblog post forthcoming23:56
rick_h_greg-g: did you see that MSU stuff from Titus I linked you to hte other day?23:56
rick_h_CC course stuff for the genome mapping stuff23:56
greg-gyeah! that was really awesome looking23:57
rick_h_not sure if that fits your stuff, but figured it was cool none the less23:58
greg-gyeah, definitely related23:59

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