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MootBotMeeting started at 10:00. The chair is NCommander.15:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]15:00
NCommander[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110714#preview15:00
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110714#preview15:00
NCommanderwho's here?15:00
* GrueMaster apparates into the area.15:01
NCommander[topic] Standing Items15:01
MootBotNew Topic:  Standing Items15:01
NCommander[topic] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html15:02
MootBotNew Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html15:02
NCommander[link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-2.html15:03
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-2.html15:03
* GrueMaster notes that we are now in alpha 3.15:03
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-3.html15:03
NCommanderwe're off treadline15:04
NCommanderGrueMaster: do you need help with your workitems?15:05
* NCommander echos15:06
GrueMasterI should be able to get them started next week, now that I have systems with sata drives to throw into server testing.  A lot of this can run in parallell.15:06
NCommander[topic] ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)15:06
MootBotNew Topic:  ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)15:06
NCommandernot much to add here, expect infinity's preinstall pool looks like it got impleeneted (I'm not sure the actual status; infinity ?)15:08
NCommanderI'm guessing he's not here, if he pops up we'll come back15:09
NCommanderKernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)15:09
NCommander[topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)15:09
MootBotNew Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)15:09
ppisatigot a new drop from agreen today15:10
ppisatithat fixes a displauy problem we have15:10
ppisatiso far i've a 3.0.0-rc7 kernel running quite ok15:10
ppisatithere's still one issue with audio15:10
ppisatior better, with pulse audio spamming the console (and thus consuming 100%cpu)15:10
ppisatibut the rest looks good to me15:10
ppisatii've an ubuntu session running since a week15:10
ppisatithis was reklated to oneiric/ti-omap415:11
ppisatii think i'll push it today or latest tomorrow15:11
ppisation zinc, and i'll pubblish a kernel to test too15:11
ppisatiif only i could get rid of that audio problem... :P15:11
NCommanderanytihng have something to add or can I move on?15:12
NCommanderARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)15:12
NCommander[topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)15:12
MootBotNew Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)15:12
janimo`fixed a few FTBFS these days15:12
janimo`having a session on it today in Ubuntu Devel Week15:13
NCommanderw'eve had a toolchain bug which has broken quite a few packages like libkdraw15:13
ogra_ocaml seems to be in a bad state, i think persia invested some time last night15:13
NCommanderhas that gotten fixed?15:13
janimo`I don't think it has15:13
janimo`the register spilling issue15:14
ogra_i dont see it on the ftbfs page though15:14
ogra_are you sure it didnt build i.e. someone might have given it back15:15
NCommanderogra_: it causes other packages to blow; gcc itself builds15:15
ogra_i mean libdkraw15:15
NCommanderit may have gotten uploaded with the workaround set in its compile flags; I havne't checked all my email yet today15:15
ogra_hmm and gcc-default failed to upload ... since may already15:16
ogra_i wonder if doko_ just didnt notice or if thats on purpose15:16
ogra_ghostscript is new on the list15:16
NCommanderantone else got something else?15:16
doko_ignore gcc-defaults15:17
ogra_and cantor (no idea what that is)15:17
ogra_doko_, thx15:17
ogra_NCommander, move15:17
NCommander[topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)15:17
MootBotNew Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)15:17
janimo`ah, libkdcraw seems to have beeen rebuilt successfully15:17
doko_would be nice if somebody could look at bug #81040215:17
ubottuLaunchpad bug 810402 in ocaml (Ubuntu Oneiric) "all native ocaml programs segfault on armel" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/81040215:17
ogra_doko_, see above, persia is on it15:18
NCommanderinfinity's preinstall pooled stuff was covered before15:18
ogra_(with some community member)15:18
NCommanderI don't have anything else to ad15:18
ogra_we don and wont have images for a while15:18
ogra_debootstrap is completely hosed by the /run transition15:18
ogra_since quite a while already15:19
NCommanderbug number?15:19
ogra_no idea if there is one15:19
ogra_everyone is working on that though15:19
ogra_since days15:19
NCommander.......... if there is a critical bug with debootstrap there should be a bug15:19
GrueMasterAny status on the imx5# images?15:19
ogra_there surely is15:19
ogra_i just dont know the number15:19
ogra_GrueMaster, persias list points to first images for 2011080115:20
NCommanderGrueMaster: without debootstrap its kinda moot ATM15:20
ogra_beyond that ScottK owns them15:20
ogra_so ask him :)15:20
GrueMasterWanted to know as that will provide me with a current SATA system to do HD monitoring tests.15:21
ogra_i dont think anything has happened on our side yet15:21
NCommandercan I ove on?15:21
ogra_(will need debioan-cd integration etc)15:21
ogra_ac100 kernel and flash-kernel support are uploaded to oneiric15:21
ogra_kernel and meta are sitting in NEW, i chose to use .38 for the newer packages15:22
ogra_NCommander, move :)15:22
NCommander[topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)15:22
MootBotNew Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)15:22
GrueMasterCurrently have an issue with two boards with overlapping mac addresses.15:23
GrueMasterThis will cause issues with automation testing & PXE boot.15:23
janimo`ogra_, \o/15:23
NCommanderGrueMaster: the MAC can be set in u-boot if need be15:24
GrueMasterRest of the systems now have sata<>usb drives attached and are currently running io tests.  Should be done tomorrow.15:24
ogra_try plugging the the cable backwards that probanbly changes the order of the MAC :)15:24
GrueMasterNCommander: Not automated.15:24
ogra_NCommander, there is already a u-boot patch to use the die-id15:24
NCommanderogra_: reversing the polarity rarely works in real life15:24
ogra_just not in yet15:24
GrueMasterThe die id is the same on two systems so that won't help.15:25
GrueMasterThe mac I am referring to is what the kernel is assigning based on die id.15:25
ogra_same die-id ? thats evil15:25
ogra_do you need them fixed ?15:26
GrueMasterOne is an EA1, the other is one of davidm's A1 boards.15:26
ogra_else it could generate based on die-id and timestamp or so15:26
ogra_so you at least have differing ones for each board15:26
GrueMasterI have two more boards coming, and A3 and a fixed A1.  A1 should be here early next week.  No eta on A3.15:26
ogra_hopefully with different IDs then :)15:27
GrueMasterWork continues on automation using Jenkins.  More ove a learning curve than anything.  Current automated server tests are heavily interwoven with libvirt & kvm, so are all but useless to me.15:28
ogra_great, so you can reimplement the world15:28
GrueMasterSpent two days trying to get natty preinstalled netbook image (basis of filesystem testing) to run on btrfs failed.  Based on the current status of that filesystem, I am not recommending it for default.15:29
ogra_did you file bugs ?15:30
ogra_it should definitely at least *work*15:30
GrueMasterCoudln't figure out what exactly was broken.15:30
ogra_probably sluggish and all, but it should15:31
ogra_did you do any ext4 testing yet ?15:31
GrueMasterIt was having mount issues in intramfs.15:31
GrueMasteryes.  Results were posted.15:31
ogra_ah, great15:31
GrueMasterSlightly faster than ext3.15:31
ogra_where ? :)15:31
GrueMasterThey are in the blueprint.15:31
ogra_well, ext4 has a bunch of flash optimization settings you can apply, there should be more differences if you flick all the switches15:32
ogra_(i.e. the now well known TRIM support we banged our heads on durign the sprint)15:32
ogra_ah, on the wiki15:32
ogra_i looked at the spec15:33
NCommanderanything else?15:33
GrueMasterThere is probably a way to combine the results into a single chart, but I haven't looked into it yet.15:34
ogra_yeah, who cares15:34
GrueMasterNothing else to report on from here.15:34
ogra_we only want the numbers for one shot anyway15:34
NCommander[topic] AOB15:34
MootBotNew Topic:  AOB15:34
NCommanderGIONG ONCE15:35
NCommanderTHREE TIMES15:36
MootBotMeeting finished at 10:36.15:36
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MootBotMeeting started at 12:01. The chair is bdmurray.17:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]17:01
bdmurrayTime for the Bug Squad meeting17:01
bdmurraythe agenda is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meeting17:01
bdmurray[TOPIC] Updates of action items from previous meeting17:02
MootBotNew Topic:  Updates of action items from previous meeting17:02
bdmurrayvish to send an email to the lists re mentoring team admins17:02
bdmurrayvish: Did this get done?17:02
pedro_that was done IIRC17:02
bdmurrayI seem to recall an email also17:03
bdmurray[Bugsquad-mentorship-group-alpha] Admin List in Bugsquad Mentoring team17:04
pedro_https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2011-June/003335.html <- that one ?17:04
bdmurraythere we are17:04
bdmurrayso that's done17:04
bdmurrayhggdh: around?17:04
bdmurrayhggdh to announce RedSingularity joining ubuntu-bugcontrol17:04
bdmurraythat's been long enough that I think it should be dropped if its not done17:05
bdmurraywe'll leave the other one pending17:05
bdmurray[TOPIC] Mentorship program discussion17:06
MootBotNew Topic:  Mentorship program discussion17:06
bdmurrayIs there anything to discuss here?17:06
bdmurrayMoving on then17:07
bdmurray[TOPIC] New bug control members17:07
MootBotNew Topic:  New bug control members17:07
bdmurrayWe've recently added the following two people to the Bug Control team17:08
bdmurrayDaniel Manrique - roadmr17:08
bdmurrayBrendan Donegan - brendand17:08
bdmurrayBoth of whom have been doing some great work and participating in Bug Days17:08
bdmurrayThanks for helping out!17:08
pedro_just wanna say that they are both doing an amazing work, congrats guys :-)17:09
bdmurray[TOPIC] Open Discussions17:09
MootBotNew Topic:  Open Discussions17:09
bdmurraycharlie-tca: yes?17:10
charlie-tcaI forwarded a message that went to ubuntu developers about a response given on a bug.17:10
charlie-tcaThe user requested the response be changed. Checking standard responses, he would like us to use that instead17:10
charlie-tcaApparently, the triager used his own response, which is worded slightly off.17:11
charlie-tcaWe need triagers using the standard responses, I think.17:11
charlie-tcaThe response in question is17:12
bdmurraycharlie-tca: I'm fine with modifying the wording of the response - is that something you are willing to do?17:12
charlie-tcaI didn't see any need to change it17:12
charlie-tcaThe response the user got was bad17:13
micahgwhere's this e-mail17:13
micahgah, found it now....17:14
bdmurraycharlie-tca: okay I'm with you now17:14
charlie-tcaIf the standard had been used, I think it would not have been questioned17:15
bdmurrayDo we know who used the response in question?  I ask because the writer says "The n-th time"17:15
charlie-tcaI don't know17:15
charlie-tcano bug number was given17:15
bdmurrayokay I'll find out17:16
bdmurray[ACTION] bdmurray to find out who wrote comment in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2011-July/003374.html17:16
MootBotACTION received:  bdmurray to find out who wrote comment in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2011-July/003374.html17:16
bdmurrayand if the person really is saying that a lot I'll contact them17:17
micahgbdmurray: see bug 68858617:17
ubottuLaunchpad bug 688586 in empathy (Ubuntu) "Empathy doesn't work well after update; user should be warned" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/68858617:17
bdmurraywell I guess my action is done!17:17
pedro_oh was it me?17:18
bdmurrayI wasn't gonna say that but since you did ...17:18
pedro_guess i should update the comment in the script then17:18
pedro_first comment i got about it though17:18
pedro_but one is enough17:19
charlie-tcawell... I agree17:19
bdmurraypedro_: if its a script you might consider look at the number of comments in addition to the status17:19
bdmurraypedro_: that's bug.message_count in the api17:20
pedro_bdmurray, i look at all that17:20
pedro_number of comments, status, date last changed etc17:20
bdmurrayokay cool17:20
micahgwell, the reporter was the last one to comment in this case, so that type of response isn't warranted17:21
bdmurraymicahg: that may not the best way to check since any apport bug has the first comment from the reporter17:22
micahgcomment_count > 1, last_commenter=reporter (not real API usage)17:22
bdmurrayokay lets let pedro write his own code17:23
bdmurraydon't need any backseat coders!17:23
bdmurrayIs there any other business?17:23
micahgwasn't suggesting code...but rather a possible algorithm17:23
bdmurraymicahg: okay as long as its not about algorithms17:24
micahgabout a year ago we discussed about not giving stock replies to users when all the reproduce steps are there, this seems to be happenning now with some of these automated scripts17:25
micahgthis seems to include bugs already in the triaged state17:26
bdmurrayah this is leading into algorithm to detect bug descriptions with steps to reproduce?17:26
micahgjust wanted to bring it up :)17:26
pedro_could be those updated with the 'TEST CASE' thing as the SRU's ?17:27
bdmurrayI honestly don't know how to test for steps to reproduce in the bug description17:27
micahgalthough, if there were a keyword in the description, we could check for that on newer bugs17:27
bdmurrayHowever if they were Triaged then modifying the description to add TEST CASE as pedro suggests makes sense17:27
bdmurrayAdditionally, tagging 'testcase' would be much easier to search on17:28
charlie-tcahm, actually, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Description does say use TEST CASE17:28
bdmurrayso what actions can we take / make out of this17:29
bdmurraydon't auto incomplete triaged bugs via a script17:30
pedro_i'd like the idea of having the tag too17:30
bdmurraytag bugs with 'TEST CASE' in description testcase17:30
bdmurrayrecommend people modify description with 'TEST CASE' words if steps to reproduce exist in bug description17:30
micahgstart moving steps to reproduce to description as "test case"?17:30
charlie-tcacaps, please, micahg17:31
bdmurrayyeah if they are in comment like #28 out of 10017:31
bdmurrayheh you don't hear that very OFTEN!17:31
charlie-tcacaps makes it easier to see in the descriptions17:32
micahgcharlie-tca: OK, I WILL TRY TO REMEMBER :)17:32
charlie-tcaoh, man!17:32
bdmurrayare we agreed on the actions then?17:32
* micahg does use caps in the descriptions though :)17:32
bdmurray[ACTION] bdmurray tag bugs with 'TEST CASE' in description testcase17:33
MootBotACTION received:  bdmurray tag bugs with 'TEST CASE' in description testcase17:33
micahgI would think the only exceptions might be  kernel/X since hardware might not be available17:34
bdmurray[ACTION] bdmurray recommend people modify description with 'TEST CASE' words if steps to reproduce exist in bug description or in comments17:34
MootBotACTION received:  bdmurray recommend people modify description with 'TEST CASE' words if steps to reproduce exist in bug description or in comments17:34
charlie-tcaIf the steps are there to reproduce, it doesn't matter if you have the hardware, does it?17:34
micahgcharlie-tca: for kernel/X it can17:34
charlie-tcait is still a TEST CASE, though?17:34
bdmurrayIt doesn matter but its still worth noting there is a TEST CASE17:35
micahgif the bug is hardware specific17:35
micahgright, I was referring to the triaged part17:35
bdmurrayah well the kernel's special17:35
charlie-tcaoh, kernel team is different on that17:35
bdmurrayokay any other business?17:36
micahgbdmurray: you forgot one of the actions from your list :)17:36
bdmurrayI recently wrote an update-manager apport package hook - this is now in natty-proposed and could use some SRU verification17:37
bdmurraythat is bug 79789417:37
ubottuLaunchpad bug 797894 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager bug reports would benefit from an apport-hook" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/79789417:37
bdmurraymicahg: which action is that?17:37
micahg <bdmurray> don't auto incomplete triaged bugs via a script17:37
bdmurraymicahg: I won't and don't - should I email others not to either?17:38
micahgbdmurray: you proposed it as a possible action, was wondering what you had in mind17:39
bdmurrayyes so was I17:39
micahgmaybe just a reminder about the triaged state and why bug reports end up there and that people should keep that in mind when writing these scripts?17:41
bdmurray[ACTION] bdmurray to recommend that auto bug modifiers not incomplete bug reports that have been triaged as triaged is a state settable only by people who know17:41
MootBotACTION received:  bdmurray to recommend that auto bug modifiers not incomplete bug reports that have been triaged as triaged is a state settable only by people who know17:41
bdmurraythat sounds reasonably close to what micah said17:41
bdmurrayso any other business?17:41
bdmurrayokay thanks everyone!17:44
charlie-tcabdmurray: Thank you for chairing these meetings!17:44
micahgbdmurray: no dash17:44
MootBotMeeting finished at 12:45.17:45
micahgthanks bdmurray17:45
keesheya, i'll be a few minutes late...17:58
cjwatsonI have to say I don't actually remember what's left on the agenda17:59
cjwatsonwe handled a good deal of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda at the rally18:00
mdzI've missed the past two and have no idea what's going on18:00
cjwatsonI believe that the question of MRE for banshee is still open, but I think we were going to follow up on the mailing list for that18:00
mdzI therefore un-volunteer to chair18:00
cjwatsonthe series RM bit I was going to take care of, though haven't yet18:00
cjwatsonhow about I start and we can move through the things I know about, and anyone with more of a clue about what's going on can chip in18:01
MootBotMeeting started at 13:01. The chair is cjwatson.18:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]18:01
cjwatson[TOPIC] Action review18:02
MootBotNew Topic:  Action review18:02
cjwatsoncjwatson to set series RM to ubuntu-release18:02
cjwatsonnot done18:02
Laneythe banshee MRE is done, fyi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions18:02
cjwatsoneveryone to follow up to mailing list threads18:02
cjwatsonno ideda18:02
cjwatsonLaney: oh good, thanks18:02
cjwatson(er, one moment, need to attend to my daughter)18:02
cjwatsonwe have the DMB voting procedure question still outstanding, I think, but that really does need to be handled by e-mail18:03
cjwatson[TOPIC] Patent enquiry - mesa floating point buffer support (RAOF)18:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Patent enquiry - mesa floating point buffer support (RAOF)18:04
mdzI'm very behind on Ubuntu email right now, I'm afraid18:04
cjwatsonmdz: understandable :)18:04
cjwatsonI was under the impression that our standing policy was only to take action when notified of patent infringement by a patent holder18:05
cjwatsonhowever, given the form of the question, I think we need somebody who can assume risk on behalf of Canonical to answer18:05
mdzI think we err on the side of making the software better18:05
cjwatsondoes anyone object if I forward the question to legal and/or Mark?  or should we tell RAOF to go ahead?18:05
mdzand patent claims can push back iff there is a genuine problem18:05
mdzcjwatson, I think according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PatentPolicy RAOF should go ahead18:06
cjwatsonRAOF seems to be following the last section of that18:07
* kees agrees18:07
cjwatsonbut I guess the answer is "we are not aware of any active claims here"18:07
cjwatsonand we seem to have a plausible defence anyway in the form of RAOF's belief that the patent involves a hardware circuit18:08
cjwatsonso that's agreed, I'll reply to Chris' mail in the course of preparing minutes for this meeting18:09
mdzthere is no claim as far as we're aware, and our best guess at a read of the patent says we can't possibly infringe18:09
cjwatson[ACTION] Brainstorm Top 10 for June 201018:09
MootBotACTION received:  Brainstorm Top 10 for June 201018:09
cjwatsonmdz: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-July/000968.html is directed at you18:10
cjwatson[TOPIC] Brainstorm Top 10 for June 201018:10
MootBotNew Topic:  Brainstorm Top 10 for June 201018:10
cjwatsonsorry, brain failure18:10
mdz2011? :-)18:10
cjwatsonfurther brain failure, but this time on the part of the enquirer ... I was just copying and pasting :-)18:10
mdzso I did the first one, and pitti did the second one18:11
cjwatsonsounds like it's not your turn then18:11
cjwatsonkees: should we flip a coin?18:11
mdzI'd appreciate if we could rotate, yes :-)18:11
mdzbetween me and pitti, there's a pretty well established formula18:11
cjwatsonI'm happy to do it and get it out of the way for a while18:12
mdzcjwatson, thank you18:13
cjwatson[ACTION] cjwatson to initiate brainstorm review18:13
MootBotACTION received:  cjwatson to initiate brainstorm review18:13
keescjwatson: cool; I'll take the next one18:13
cjwatson[TOPIC] AOB18:13
MootBotNew Topic:  AOB18:13
cjwatsonI don't see anything else in the mailing list or community bugs, aside from a few threads in progress18:13
mdzcjwatson, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-March/000726.html has all of the brainstorm review resources18:14
mdzat least, what existed when pitti started the last round18:14
mdzno other business from me18:14
cjwatson[TOPIC] chair for next meeting18:15
MootBotNew Topic:  chair for next meeting18:15
cjwatsonI have no idea whose turn it is.  kees, can you take the next one maybe?18:15
mdz28 July18:16
cjwatsonsorry, woefully underprepared here18:16
mdzI'll be at OSCON, but hopefully will be able to attend18:16
keesit's certainly my turn by now18:16
cjwatsonI'll be at Debconf, but likewise18:16
mdzit's during Debconf too18:16
keesI'll be around (not at debconf)18:16
mdzok, thanks for chairing cjwatson18:16
cjwatsonOK, let's call it a day then18:16
cjwatsonmdz: hope the holiday's going well!18:16
MootBotMeeting finished at 13:16.18:16
mdzcjwatson, it's been grand. getting back to work Monday18:17
cjwatsonah, have fun18:17
cjwatsonright.  pub! :-)18:18
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