snap-lGOod morning11:49
snap-lAnyone got a sec to give a promo a listen? http://ubuntuone.com/p/14QM/12:12
snap-lTell me what you think12:12
rick_h_cool, needs a bit more oomph in the voice, sounds a little "sssh we're in a library"12:14
rick_h_but loving the concept12:14
snap-lWell, I'm trying to do it quietly so as not to disturb JoDee. :)12:14
greg-gI forget who i got this from, but this is a pretty good read: http://radar.oreilly.com/2011/07/what-is-html5.html12:14
rick_h_lol, so you were in a library! I knew it!12:14
snap-lMaybe I'll re-record the voice later.12:14
rick_h_snap-l: yea, I mean small tweak, nothing killer against12:15
snap-lHeh, I managed to wake her anyway12:17
snap-lshe told me she doesn't like being woken up that way.12:18
rick_h_that's ok, she can have my wake up12:18
rick_h_there will be a dead cat in the house before nightfall12:18
rick_h_greg-g: man he's hung up on audio/video element, probably the least used thnigs at this point still12:20
greg-grick_h_: it isn't about "now" it is about "when we get our act together and move forward"12:20
rick_h_yea, true12:20
rick_h_but html5 is the big rage 'now' while we're still not able to get our act together12:21
greg-g"HTML5, when used both as the 21st century web suggests and as the original HTML specification allowed, is best at interconnecting things. If you view your pages as a collection of content, and let go of the rather egotistical idea that all that content has to be your own, then all of the new features of HTML5 discussed so far are hugely important. You can pull in audio and video and manipulate that audio and video as if it were your own. You can o12:21
greg-gthe main point up until I had to stop to check email :)12:21
rick_h_heh and see that point I was kind of going against.12:22
rick_h_I don't get how having a container tag audio/video let's you 'own' things more12:22
rick_h_I guess that you can embed it on your page?12:22
rick_h_but you could before12:22
greg-gyeah yeah, I'm more hanging on the "incorporate content from around the web" idea12:22
greg-gwell, and manipulate it with javascript/css more easily12:22
rick_h_ok, so it's just *easier* to embed that into your post since you don't need flash knowledge/etc?12:23
greg-gnot just embed, do things with12:23
rick_h_I mean his point about the video guy only needing video know-how and the web guy only needing web know-how I think is a bit off base, but ok12:23
rick_h_hmm, guess I'm not creative enough to think of how to do more with video on a page than hit play with it. If it's via flash/html5 tag isn't that different12:24
rick_h_just that the pause button is a JS link vs a flash button12:24
snap-lRevised. (Flush cache)12:27
rick_h_Could not locate object12:27
rick_h_like it12:30
snap-lrick_h_: Thanks!12:30
rick_h_greg-g: ping13:00
greg-grick_h_: pong13:00
rick_h_so I thought the interest idea13:00
rick_h_but then realized that if you get paid once at the start of the month13:00
rick_h_you'd set into savings and it'd be earning interest, 2x the amount of the bi-weekly13:00
rick_h_so I don't htink you'd end up with more interest13:01
greg-gyeah, people usually get paid at beginning of months?13:01
rick_h_since you'd be putting the whole amount in at the start vs two parts spaced out13:01
rick_h_well I did, I started work, got paid at the start of the next month13:01
rick_h_so I had all my bills in the first week of the month13:01
rick_h_by the end of that week, put $$ in savings and that was it for the next 2X days13:01
rick_h_I guess if you started, you'd get your first paychgeck after 2wk vs a month13:02
greg-gright,t hat is nice13:02
rick_h_so that one paycheck would be in the bank for interest faster, but the rest wouldn't13:02
rick_h_but now both my wife and I get paid bi-weekly13:03
rick_h_and we're on opposite weeks13:03
rick_h_so it's kind of crazy13:03
greg-gbut, looking at my paycheck, I get paid on 7/1 for my work from 6/1-6/30, so paid after the work (which is kind of obvious). So, in theory, they are earning interest on it all that month of June while I get nothing13:03
rick_h_because we get a check each week and planning out the bills is more of a mess13:03
rick_h_greg-g: right, but once you get your paycheck on july1 it's 2x the other checks13:03
* greg-g nods13:04
snap-lrick_h_: Savings interest is generally computed quarterly13:04
rick_h_meh, I guess maybe. I'm not smart enough for these things lol.13:04
rick_h_snap-l: ah true13:04
snap-lso no difference between bi-monthly or monthly13:04
greg-gme neither!13:04
greg-gI need help13:04
rick_h_for me I just loved the once a month dealing with bills13:04
rick_h_now I have to do it several times a month to keep tabs and it drives me bonkers13:05
rick_h_I hate doing that stuff, so fewer times was better13:05
snap-lgreg-g: You have a child coming. Twice a month is probably good until you get your bills in order13:05
greg-gsnap-l: fair point with that13:05
greg-grick_h_: most definitely13:05
rick_h_yea, but if you're builing savings it's your safety cache, not the bi-weekly13:05
snap-lThen you don't get tempted with "OMG! I have ${BIGNUM} left"13:06
rick_h_just because you've got another check coming doesn't put more $$ in there13:06
snap-linstead of ${BIGNUM} has to last the entire month13:06
snap-lrick_h_: True13:06
rick_h_although I probably use savings wrong, I use it like a computer memory cache often13:06
snap-lPersonally I like bi-weekly13:06
snap-lrick_h_: I use it like swap13:06
snap-lwhich is wrong13:06
rick_h_I like to keep the checking what I can get rid of and try to end up close to 0 by the end of the month13:06
rick_h_hah! poor greg-g, we're no hlep13:07
snap-lI can recommend using Moneydance to help sort out the bills and such13:07
snap-land keep a checkbook13:07
snap-lI spend about once a week downloading .qif files from my checking / savings / paypal13:08
snap-land then once a month (usually) I'll download the credit card .qifs13:08
snap-lThat way, when it comes time to reconcile, it's not such a pain in the ass.13:08
snap-land usually catches things before they become a problem.13:09
rick_h_yea, that's more time than I can stand putting into things. But I do it wrong I know13:09
snap-lie: When JoDee buys something and forgets to give me the receipt.13:09
snap-lor when I don't get a receipy.13:09
greg-gwe use mint.com right now, I know I know, but it works good enough for use to keep tabs on things13:10
rick_h_won't hear anything from me13:11
rick_h_whatever works and all13:11
greg-gmostly I feel weird about giving intuit access to all of my banking/savings/401(k) accounts13:12
greg-gread-only, of course, but still13:12
brouschthere are floss alternatives13:12
Williek13I need help with a Ubuntu Server....does anyone know how to setup LDAP/Kerberos13:12
greg-gbrousch: any recommendations?13:12
rick_h_heh, man you start out guns blazing13:12
rick_h_Sorry Williek13, use ldap, and tinkered, but not in the realm to help debug a kerberos setup13:13
brouschgreg-g: i think gnucash is the most favored program for personal finance stuff http://www.gnucash.org/13:15
snap-lbrousch: Only if you want to learn double accounting to balance your checkbook13:15
brouschldap makes my head hurt13:15
Williek13i agree brousch its a pain lol13:16
greg-gWilliek13: do you happen to be on the U-M campus?13:21
Williek13how do you personal message? im new to this IRC13:22
brouschdon't worry, no one will beat you up if you're a wolverine13:23
greg-gdepends on the software you're using, usually a double click on the user name of the user you want to PM with13:23
brouschnow if you're a spartan ...13:23
rick_h_Williek13: honestly, no need to PM13:23
rick_h_just chat13:23
Williek13oh i thought red was a pm13:23
Williek13i say go blue13:23
Williek13but i actually go to SVSU for college13:24
greg-gahh, cool, I wish gamerchick was online, she is also from there13:24
Williek13ah ic where abouts are you?13:24
Williek13hey does anyone know wolfger thats on13:33
snap-lyeah, we know him13:36
greg-gWilliek13: I'm in A2, most are either Detroit or suburb of Detroit, with a few on the west coast (most notaly brousch )13:39
jjessewest side rulez13:41
Williek13ah ic thanks for the info greg-g.....13:42
Williek13snap is wolf on the westside? i think i used to play an online game with him...the name sounds familiar13:42
greg-goh, right, and jjesse, our own co-author of the Official Ubuntu Book13:43
greg-gWolfger: is on the east side, actually13:44
Williek13ah ic wrong guy then...thanks13:46
jjesseso jcastro is moving to florida?14:39
jjesseretiring early?14:39
brouschhe'll come back with gout and osteoporosis14:41
snap-lYou guys are mean. ;)14:43
jjessewill he start going to dinner at 3pm as well?14:43
jrwrenhe doesn't already have gout?14:44
jrwreni have gout. it can be painful, but its easy to manage14:45
jrwrengreg-g: congrats on your marriage14:45
snap-lYou guys are mean. ;)14:47
snap-lBah, sorry... history repost14:47
greg-gjrwren: thanks buddy14:48
Milyardosnap-l: I use GNUCash for my personal accounting, and while double entry accounting is counter-intuitive to the uninitiated, IMO its the only way to do accounting correctly15:05
greg-gMilyardo: but what if I don't want to do accounting, but instead just keep on top of my finances15:09
Milyardogreg-g: "just keep on top of my finances" isn't a clearly defined goal, what is "just keep on top of my finances" and what does it achieve?15:12
snap-lMilyardo: True, ad I used Gnucash for a while. And I came back to Moneydance.15:13
jrwrengreg-g: i use a spreadsheet :)15:14
rick_h_I'm with jrwren there15:15
rick_h_it's getting pretty wide these days15:15
jrwreni use rows instead of columns15:15
jrwrenand new sheets every month which backref to hte previous month sheet15:15
rick_h_I have bills and their due dates/amounts down in rows15:15
rick_h_and each month is two new columns, amount paid and date paid15:15
rick_h_ah, sheets, fancy! :)15:15
jrwrenoh, you track payments, I don't do that.15:16
rick_h_yea, so I can go back adn tell going up/down/did I pay/not15:16
jrwrenthis is more like expected and actual cash flow tracking15:16
rick_h_without having to search the band stuff15:16
rick_h_yea, that's how I run things I guess15:16
jrwrenall depends on what you want to know.15:16
jrwreni couldn't answer "did I pay that" as quickly as you.15:17
jrwrenbut I can answer "how much do we usually spend on X"15:17
snap-lAnd that's why I use moneydance and .qif files15:17
snap-lI can verify what the bank thinks I have quickly15:17
rick_h_yea, I only track the big things15:17
rick_h_I don't track every gas/coffee purchase and categorize it15:17
snap-ljrwren: Moneydance. It's one of the few Java programs I use15:18
jrwrenbut bank things you have quicken or quickly?15:18
snap-ljrwren: Moneydance does .qif imports. Quickly is how fast I can import them. ;)15:19
Milyardosnap-l: Moneydance looks like its double entry as well15:19
jrwrenmy reading fail.15:19
snap-lMilyardo: It is, but it's not a fiercely pedantic as Gnucash15:20
snap-lat least Gnucash felt very pedantic to me15:20
greg-gMilyardo: sorry, boss walked in. By that I mean: make sure I have enough money to pay bills each month in the right accounts.15:21
Milyardosnap-l: Thats probably the difference in localizations between different types of users: ie, a CPA vs everyon else15:22
jrwrensounds like we have some great specs to go write a personal accounting and finance tool that has never been written before :)15:22
brouschi also use a spreadsheet with columns for due, paid, etc. when a bill is paid, i copy it to a new row and advance the due date a month.15:23
_stink_i'd chip in to that15:23
jrwrenhehe, my problem is I don't write GUI in anything that is easily run on linux, so I can't write this said app :)15:24
snap-lhow... convenient.15:25
_stink_jrwren: ok, you write the back end. :)15:26
ptenhoopenI'm going to start analyzing my spending from each month so I can see where it went.  I'll probably just use a spreadsheet for it and to generate trending graphs.15:29
WolfgerI'm surprised snap-l admitted to knowing me. :-)15:38
brouschptenhoopen: have you heard of chext? it's a startup from ryan montgomery in the momentum program. i think it does something like that15:38
ptenhoopenNo, I haven't.15:44
* Wolfger notices jrwren has been silent since it was pointed out he could write the back-end code without any GUI skills... ;-)15:44
snap-lI <3 how I try to answer this guys question, and haven't heard anything back. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6601107/how-to-send-a-file-through-soap-in-python/6631965#663196515:46
ptenhoopenbrousch:  I found it at http://chext.net/ and it is free. Seems to be centered around texting so I don't think it's what I'm looking for/to do.15:47
rick_h_greg-g: needs one of these http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAcy7EVRpXc&feature=youtu.be15:54
rick_h_from jrwren15:54
brouschsnap-l rick_h_: ptenhoopen is one of my West MI friends. He is lord and master of the WMLUG and he'll be my roomie at pyohio15:55
Wolfgersnap-l: well, you know, you did answer 3 days later.... that's an eternity in internet time. He was probably done with that problem by then.15:55
rick_h_nice, howdy ptenhoopen15:55
ptenhoopenrick_h_: Hi!15:56
WolfgerOh, NM. He's responded to everybody except you, today.15:58
Wolfgerin short.... you suck. :-D15:58
brouschPythonistas, what's a more elegant way of doing this? http://paste.mitechie.com/show/363/16:00
Wolfgeroh, my bad. He hasn't responded since the 7th. It's the first responder who's replying on his own post and somebody else's.16:00
Wolfgerbrousch: case statements?16:00
Wolfger1, 2, and fall-through16:01
rick_h_brousch: huh? why bother?16:01
rick_h_what's this going to?16:01
rick_h_a template file or something?16:01
rick_h_what's the template look like?16:01
rick_h_you shuold just be sending the list to the template16:01
brouschdisplays the image or nothing if it's none16:01
rick_h_right, but why do you need the 3 diff grid vars?16:02
brouschah, so i would be sending a maximum of 3 images, and i can just loop through them in the template16:04
brouschyeah, that's much better16:04
rick_h_maybe do some % magic if you want to adjust the cols based on the number of results16:05
rick_h_but no need for the grid1..316:05
rick_h_Wolfger: no case statements in python16:05
rick_h_write a dispatch function/class or something better16:06
WolfgerI'm also wondering what effect limit(3) had in that code if >=3 was still needed...16:06
rick_h_not following16:06
rick_h_the .limit adds a LIMIT 3 to the sql clause16:07
rick_h_if you needed more you'd adjust your LIMIT in the sql statement16:07
greg-gwelcome to the channel, ptenhoopen16:07
ptenhoopengreg-g:  Thanks16:07
WolfgerRight, so in the grid_list = we have .limit(3)16:07
Wolfgerbut in the if statement, we have >=3 instead of ==316:08
Wolfgerand I don't get that16:08
Wolfgerlimit of 3 would preclude ever being >3, yes?16:08
rick_h_but mayube he likes seeing >=3 vs >2 == 2 < 216:09
Wolfgersure... just seemed like an oddity to me. Still fully functional16:10
rick_h_right, I kind of like seeing the 1,2,3 though. Easy to read16:10
WolfgerI would do ==1, ==2, ==3, and >3 for error trapping :-D16:11
rick_h_and if you got back 0 rows :P16:12
Wolfgerif >3 "larger than expected array returned from query"16:12
Wolfgeryeah, that too16:12
brouschthat's much better, thanks. eliminated like 8 lines of code and half of my template16:12
rick_h_brousch: cool, I like that answer then16:12
rick_h_"don't rewrite it...get rid of it!" woo!16:12
brouschyeah, i started with 1 image and expanded from there, and never went back to re-evaluate it16:13
brouschthat also makes it really easy to show the number of images you want instead of hard-coding 316:17
ptenhoopenFor those of you looking for open source personal finance software.  Look at the bottom of page 3.  http://www.datamation.com/open-source/63-open-source-replacements-for-popular-financial-software-1.html17:46
Wolfgerfrakkin' Identica spammers18:31
Wolfgerdon't they know Identica is dead? ;-)18:31
snap-lhar har18:32
WolfgerI guess spammers using your service is a defacto certification of your viability18:35
snap-lWhat is it with people trying to run PHP under Python? :)19:05
rick_h_oh man, I'm going to cry19:08
snap-lbtw: If anyone wants an invite to Stack overflow Careers 2.0, I have some19:09
rick_h_get ready, making techie angry!!! lol19:10
brouschsnap-l: "some glue code"?19:10
brouschvery nice19:10
rick_h_yea, I love that bit19:10
MilyardoWhat's the point to a Python CGI that runs anything other than python to begin with?19:10
snap-lbrousch: Yeah, pulling out the tact.19:10
rick_h_my answer would have been "less php in my python please!"19:10
rick_h_Milyardo: I'm guessing it was his idea of a *light* no install web server19:10
snap-lrick_h_: ++19:13
snap-lLike people wanting to run php in paste19:13
rick_h_right, the same idea, but paster would be harder to get running19:13
rick_h_since you've have to install it and figure out how to wsgi-ize your app for it19:13
snap-lwsgi? ;)19:13
rick_h_my bad19:14
snap-l@reboot paste server19:14
rick_h_python -m SimpleHTTPServer19:14
rick_h_"what! no php support in SimpleHTTPServer?! What kind of crappy package is that?!"19:14
brouscha guy who came to a grpug meeting created this https://github.com/bendemott/pyhp19:17
* rick_h_ is afraid to click19:18
brouschhaven't seen him much lately19:18
snap-lbrousch: Yeah, that's the sort of thing I was talking about19:18
brouschi think he was using php as the templating language for a python app19:18
snap-lbrousch: probably gibbering in a corner for unleashing this upon humanity.19:18
MilyardoPeople still use PhpBB? I thought that was vBulletien was the defecto php forum nowadays19:18
snap-lMilyardo: Yeah, but vBulletin isn't free, iirc.19:18
snap-lMilyardo: so PHPBB is the defacto way to get SPAM injected onto the internet.19:19
rick_h_really? If you're using mako with the c extensions then guess what, php in it's own process isn't going to help you any, especially when you get to mako storing the compiled caches fo the templates19:20
rick_h_and even if so, your template time is so little of your overall app execution time per request19:20
snap-lrick_h_: breathe19:20
snap-lrick_h_: breathe19:20
snap-lrick_h_: breathe19:20
rick_h_maybe if you're facebook19:20
rick_h_then those numbers matter, I've just not been that big19:20
snap-lThere might be some value for it19:21
snap-lie: gluing together some disparate codebases19:21
brouschi think it's php devs trying to move to python but being frustrated that they can't just slap it all into their html19:21
snap-lho boy19:21
snap-lI think I just heard an explosion south-west of me.19:22
snap-lYep, there goes rick_h_19:22
rick_h_and I'm walking away for a bit, the more I read this readme the more annoyed I get19:22
snap-lI thought you were in the office?19:22
rick_h_yea, not for long :)19:23
rick_h_but that's 14mi19:23
rick_h_so that's still NW (in theory) of 11mi?19:23
snap-lYeah, it is19:23
snap-lif you use numbers and GPS and such19:23
rick_h_oops, sorry for the url19:23
rick_h_well I just used the nubmers of 14mi vs 11mi19:24
snap-lApparently my machine is now incapable of burning a DVD.21:06
devinheitmuellersnap-l: duh, you're using Linux.21:16
snap-lNot helping21:19
alpha-01hello all22:20
alpha-01met some of you yesterday.22:20
alpha-01hopefully i can get a little more help...22:20
alpha-01installed 11.04 yesterday22:21
alpha-01'tdidn't get all the updates right then22:21
alpha-01was able to connect to wifi, can't today22:21
alpha-01hoping it is just an update i need22:21
alpha-01can someone tell me how to run the updates?22:21
alpha-01i did "sudo apt-get update"22:22
alpha-01but i think there must be more to it than that...22:22
alpha-01please help.22:22
rick_h_yea, update just gets the list of updates22:23
rick_h_to perform the upgrade you have to run22:23
rick_h_sudo apt-get upgrade22:23
alpha-01and that should fix everything?22:24
alpha-01"should" being the operative word...22:24
Blazeixit will upgrade your system, no promises on fixing everything :)22:26

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