[00:00] <astraljava> ScottL: No, never heard of him.
[01:27] <TheMuso> ScottL, astraljava, anyone else who worked on the seeds. Here is a list of what has been added/removed, and I think there is a fair amount in here that you may not want on the studio disks. http://paste.ubuntu.com/643670/
[01:27] <TheMuso> ScottL, astraljava, I am not uploading until I hear back as to whether you wish to make more changes, or go with what is there.
[01:28] <TheMuso> astraljava, ScottL, the above is from the changelog entry for ubuntustudio-meta with the recent seed changes.
[01:33] <ScottL> astraljava, i talked to cory via google chat and he's good with what you have done (not that he looked with much depth to be forthcoming)
[01:34] <ScottL> man, we added a lot without removing that much :/
[01:36] <ScottL> astraljava, basically i told cory that i thought we should try the " forward, see what breaks, and try to fix it" method
[04:58] <holstein> whats replacing brasero?
[06:18] <astraljava> ScottL: Like I said, I merged from Xubuntu without really knowing what not to include. Development stuff, sure, but not really anything outside.
[06:19] <astraljava> TheMuso: Thanks for the output! We seriously needed to have the discussion, but as you probably noticed, there wasn't any. :-/
[07:43]  * persia notices backscroll and wonders why abiword should be included.  Same for orage, parole, vinagrr
[08:17] <astraljava> We didn't have any office tools by default before? Okay, I'll scratch all of that.
[08:17] <astraljava> No idea what the rest are.
[08:17] <astraljava> So with abiword, we ought to get rid of gnumeric, too?
[08:31] <persia> Depends on the plan.
[08:32] <persia> If we think people need to be able to do flyers and calculate how much money they lose for signing with a major label, then perhaps we want those tools.
[08:33] <persia> Alternately, we could tell folk who want an office suite to install one of libreoffice, gnome-office, or Calligra, depending on their preference.
[08:34] <persia> orage is a calendar, parole is a media player, vinagre is a remote desktop client.
[08:34] <persia> Again, there might be good reasons to have them.
[08:43] <astraljava> persia: For Xubuntu, or us? Once again, desktop is pretty much directly copied from Xubuntu's. I left out some pretty obvious choices only (e.g. development tools and the like)
[08:43] <persia> There are definite reasons for Xubuntu to have that stuff.
[08:44] <persia> But I always presumed there was a reason that we had a separate desktop seed, related to wanting/not wanting certain things from Ubuntu Desktop.
[08:44] <persia> If we want to have the same behaviour when using Xubuntu, I would expect the same filters to be applied.
[08:45] <persia> If we just want the Xubuntu Desktop as-is, with our stuff on top, then we could just have "xubuntu-desktop" in our seed, or not even have an ubuntustudio-desktop package, and just have the other ones.
[08:47] <astraljava> persia: I highly doubt we want it as-is, hence the discussion. But stuff like "there might be good reasons to have them" only apply for the reason that it's currently a product of direct copying.
[08:48] <astraljava> persia: I am just not well-enough informed to make the call for removing individual packages.
[08:49] <astraljava> That's why we wanted, especially, Cory's input on it.
[08:50] <astraljava> persia: Ahh... your meaning wasn't "there might be reasons why they are there", but rather "there might be reasons people would want them to be there". Gotcha. Sorry. :)
[08:55] <persia> I firmly believe that for Ubuntu Studio to be useful, it has to provide a coherent experience based on some vision.
[08:55] <persia> I'm not at all confident that I understand that vision: I have opinions, but I know I don't have enough time to keep track of what folk are thinking closely.
[08:56] <persia> So, if having an office suite is part of that coherent experience, then it needs documentation targeting the Ubuntu Studio userbase, etc.
[08:56] <persia> But I believe it to be different than the past experience, and wasn't sure if that was intentional.
[09:06] <astraljava> Yep. Well, Scott can put his foot down on this, once we have gathered enough input on the matter. Your points were excellent, though, so thanks! I'll keep that in mind.
[09:09] <persia> Heh, yeah :)  I should also say: nice work in sorting the migration.
[09:09] <persia> It will be nice to have buildable images again.
[09:15] <astraljava> Agreed, I hate when we couldn't test. Also, I'm highly stoked to see the new desktop. :)
[10:19] <falktx> hey there
[10:55] <astraljava> Hi falktx!
[11:07] <falktx> hi
[11:09] <falktx> are the new ISOs building now?
[11:09] <falktx> (gnome-session and lash fixed?)
[11:26] <astraljava> At least I didn't receive any notion of uninstallable binaries in the daily health check, but I haven't attempted a test install yet.
[11:27] <astraljava> err... s/binaries/packages/
[11:43] <astraljava> Nah, installation still fails, and obviously so because Luke just informed us that he hadn't updated the seeds due to confusing nature of desktop's contents.
[11:45] <falktx> ah, too bad
[11:46] <astraljava> falktx: If you could, please take a look at the desktop in the ubuntustudio.oneiric seed.
[11:47] <astraljava> We could use the opinion in the application selection area.
[11:49] <falktx> I can take a quick look
[11:54] <falktx> it seems like oneiric has more GCC bugs than natty had
[11:55] <ScottL> astraljava, i have luke's pastebin and i'll parse it later today (hopefully, work is pretty busy again)
[11:55] <ScottL> hi falktx 
[11:58] <astraljava> ScottL: Yeah, no sweat. We still have a few weeks until alpha-3 (but time flies) :D
[12:00] <ScottL> yes and i still want to make additional changes to add new plugins, etc, one xfce is sorted, so that makes the time even shorter
[12:01] <falktx> ScottL: did you ever tested my xfce menu patch for real?
[12:06] <falktx> I can see a lot of plugins missing
[12:06] <falktx> guitarix is not available, so it should be added
[12:07] <falktx> yoshimi is a good choice too
[12:08] <falktx> hm, it seems to me the seed are very short right now... did someone removed lots of apps?
[12:08] <falktx> I can't see invada-plugins in there, but I remember US using it before
[12:09] <falktx> ah! generation.seed adds a few more
[12:09] <astraljava> I see plugins in audio-common and audio-plugins
[12:12] <falktx> damn, I need to sleep
[15:13] <scott-work> astraljava: did you ever get ubuntu studio installed on your mac?  did you dual-boot by chance?
[16:15] <astraljava> scott-work: I never got the mac. I had some financial issues, and when they were resolved, Apple had switched from nVidia to ATi/AMD, so I didn't bother anymore.
[16:22] <scott-work> ah, gotcha
[16:22] <scott-work> one of the hosts for the "terminal geeks" podcast is thinking about using a mac and was curious about dual booting it
[17:03] <astraljava> I understand there's nothing really irky about it anymore. EFI works really well for that.
[18:47] <scott-work> astraljava: what is EFI?
[18:47] <scott-work> oh, and i'm still going to get you information about the back porting situation, there's just too many irons in the fire for my time
[18:52] <astraljava> scott-work: No fear, natty/lucid is not going anywhere for a while. :)
[18:54] <astraljava> scott-work: The BIOS equivalent on Macs, I believe.
[18:56] <charlie-tca> EFI is something in the 64bit macs, that's the reason we have have a special release for mac 64
[18:59] <astraljava> The Unified Extensible Firmware Interface BIOS (UEFI) is a specification that defines a software interface between an operating system and platform firmware. UEFI is a replacement for the older BIOS firmware interface present in all IBM PC-compatible personal computers. (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface)
[19:00] <astraljava> I don't see how that limits to 64-bits only, though.
[19:01] <charlie-tca> I don't understand much of it, but there is something about the 64bit system that requires a special cd spin
[19:09] <persia> EFI is an earlier revision of UEFI, used by Apple, Dell, HP, and maybe some other folk.  Apple did it first, and in a special way that doesn't match what everyone else did, hence the amd64+mac images.
[19:10] <persia> The i386 images either don't support the Intel macs *OR* do something special to get into some "compatibility mode".  I forget which, but suspect the former.
[19:41] <astraljava> Thanks for the correction, persia!