keesarchive admins around?02:37
keesFAIL: ABI mismatch in lucid Updates: 33 != 32 (linux-meta vs linux-backports-modules-2.6.32 2.6.32-32.32)02:37
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
keesFAIL: ABI mismatch in lucid Updates: 33 != 32 (linux-ports-meta vs linux-backports-modules-2.6.32 2.6.32-32.32)02:37
keesslangasek: around to fix this? ^^02:37
slangasekkees: hrm02:37
slangasekkees: I copied all those packages over together; did I hit the publisher at the wrong time?02:38
slangasekkees: linux-backports-modules-2.6.32 | 2.6.32-33.33 | lucid-proposed | source02:38
keesslangasek: perhaps... this is why I've recommended doing everything except meta for 1 publisher cycle, then meta on the next cycle. I will re-run the check (this one was from cron)02:39
keesis there are archive-admin alias I can send email to? right now I just CC pitti on these warnings02:39
slangasekah, I guess I may not have gotten that memo :)02:39
slangasekthere's an ubuntu-archive mailing list02:40
keesokay, cool, looks like it was a publisher cycle split or something. the re-run check sees no problems.02:40
slangasekok, good02:40
keesokay. thanks!02:41
keesslangasek: actually, wait... it's not in -security...02:42
slangasekis it supposed to be?02:42
keesslangasek: it should have gone to security (along with all ABI packages)02:42
slangasekok; skaet asked me to copy it to -updates, wasn't sure what was meant to happen wrt -security02:43
keesslangasek: yes, the tracking bug (807175) shows "Security-signoff" as "Fix Released" which means "Promote-to-security" is Confirmed.02:43
keesboth need to be done02:43
slangasekok, copying02:43
keessee https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/kernel-sru-workflow02:43
keesslangasek: you have now had a crash-course in kernel workflow publication. ;)02:44
slangasekso I see :)02:44
* slangasek notes that the interface between this workflow and the pending-sru page leaves something to be desired02:45
slangasekcopying done02:46
* slangasek makes a face at d-shlibs03:37
infinitykees: There's the mailing list, there's also abusing members of ~ubuntu-archive in turn? :)04:10
* persia has always been a fan of the archive-admin-of-the-day model04:11
infinitypersia: That only works during work hours for said admin.04:11
StevenKTimezones tend to defeat that a bit.04:11
infinitypersia: I doubt any of us want to sign up for 24h on-call.04:11
infinityWell, for 24h in a row, that is. :P04:11
infinityBut we get good coverage between many of us.04:11
persiaI suppose.  Most of the AAotD are generall cooperative as long as it's their day *somewhere*.04:12
micahginfinity: I've never worried too much about hours when pinging the AA of the day :)04:12
infinityOften, but I wouldn't bank on it. ;)04:12
persiaBut asking the AAotD is better than randomly selecting someone from ~ubuntu-archive and abusing them04:13
micahgworse case, they say no, and you go find someone else04:14
StevenKI'd suggest not abusing them if you want to actually *do* something. :-)04:14
lifelessdepends on the aaotd :P04:15
infinitypersia: Sure, it was more of an "if the AAotD happens to be eating/sleeping/urinating" thing.04:16
persiainfinity, And after checking the list, there's a significant number of listed AAotDs who don't generally do archive work during their working hours.  Not quite the majority, but getting close.04:16
infinitypersia: Which some of us do. ;)04:16
persiaIf you want to use "us" in that context, go sign up as an AAotD :p04:16
infinityI was using "us" to refer to archive admins. :P04:17
TheMusoCan anybody clone a repo from gitorious? I am getting connection reset. Seems the website is ok though.04:38
broderTheMuso: same for me, though the http transport seems to be working04:39
TheMusobroder: Hrm right, thats certainly an option.04:39
TheMusoalthough that doesn't want to work with the repo I am trying to pull.04:41
TheMusogit://gitorious.org/qt-at-spi/qt-at-spi.git via http gives a fatal error.04:41
TheMusoAh the http transport URLs are slightly different.04:47
pittiGood morning05:08
pitticjwatson: nice! so that assumes that $PACKAGE is already apt-gettable, right? that's fair enough, I just wondered if it would be possible for testing to build it with a local deb05:14
pitticjwatson: but I guess for that it could create a temporary file:// apt repo05:14
pitticjwatson: but anyway, these are refinements I'm able to do :)05:14
pitticjwatson: thanks!05:15
=== _LibertyZero is now known as LibertyZero
dholbachgood morning07:37
=== sabdfl_ is now known as sabdfl
=== MadCow108 is now known as jtaylor
cjwatsonDaviey: mm, I don't know, commented on the bug to the effect that maybe Conflicts is too heavyweight - I'm not sure really09:08
cjwatsonbdmurray: 442941 wiki> sorry, not yet, still on my to-do; I'm not sure I see how 349469 could be related to that09:10
Davieycjwatson: thanks.09:11
dholbach@pilot in09:12
=== udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: open | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> oneiric | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: dholbach
cjwatsonpitti: heh, I abused --ppa a bit in my initial version for that, and created a temporary repository09:12
cjwatsonpitti: it should be perfectly possible to support a local .deb; live-build supports that09:13
cjwatsonpitti: I believe it works by dropping .debs into config/chroot_packages/09:14
pitticjwatson: ah, so an extra --deb option would probably be handy09:14
pitticjwatson: do you want to work on the script further, or do I take it from here?09:15
cjwatsonboggle, that actually creates *and signs* a temporary repository with a temporary key09:15
pittithorough :)09:15
cjwatsonpitti: depends how fast you want it to happen :-)  I think I need to deal with the syslinux-themes-ubuntu packages09:15
cjwatsonwhich is unfortunately not a five-minute job09:15
pitticjwatson: OOI, why does that block local CD builds, but works with the official daily ones? isn't that also using live-build?09:16
cjwatsonno, the official ones only use live-build for the squashfs, not for the entire iso09:16
pitticjwatson: I think I'll need today for the remaining /run stuff, and release meeting etc., but I should have time to continue working on this stuff on monday09:16
cjwatsonhow about I get this to the point where it can actually build workable images (possibly not today, I need to work on 10.04.3) and then hand it over to you?09:16
pittiso for testing it's sufficient, as I can just inspect the squashfs09:17
pitticjwatson: sounds great09:17
cjwatsonI did the bare minimum of making sure that it actually contained the defaults package and its dependencies09:17
cjwatsonmostly I just wanted to check on the interface with you, before it gets published and set in stone09:17
pitticjwatson: I need to implement some extra things into defaults-builder anyway for the one remaining thing in the qin spec which it doesn't support yet09:17
pitticjwatson: your --ppa is really like "--apt-source", right? i. e. I could use it to point to a file:// mirror on an alternate CD, to avoid downloading the entire thing for each test run09:19
cjwatsonwell, live-build does its own caching09:20
cjwatsonbut yeah09:20
pittiah, so much the better09:20
cjwatsonI don't actually like the --ppa interface right now; special-casing stuff starting with 'deb' is a massive hack :)09:20
cjwatsonbut it was temporarily convenient09:20
pittioh, sure; but hacking that is easy09:21
cjwatsonI'd rather just support --ppa user/ppaname and have some other interface for extensions09:21
pittibut it's great to have a script which does the live-build invocation right, it would have taken me quite a bit to figure that out09:21
pittibut it actually seems to be delightfully easy09:22
pittiseems all the hard work is already in livecd-rootfs09:22
pittijhunt: hey James, how are you?09:29
jhuntpitti: hi! good thanks.09:32
pittijhunt: part of the /run transition is the move from /dev/.initramfs/ to /run/initramfs09:33
pittijhunt: we need a small change in upstart for this, in bug 81095609:33
ubottuLaunchpad bug 810956 in upstart (Ubuntu) "/dev/.initramfs/ → /run/initramfs transition" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/81095609:33
pittijhunt: we have a compatibily symlink now, so it shouldn't be broken, but it would be good if we could do the transition before the next lts09:34
pittijhunt: it just affects one small part of the code, and is a simple string substitution09:34
pittihowever, it would break stuff if you tried to backport the package to natty09:35
pittiso perhaps a more involved fix would be to check both directories and ignore /dev/.initramfs/ if it is a symlink?09:35
* Riddell nudges barry into looking at https://code.launchpad.net/~jr/ubuntu-packaging-guide/fixes/+merge/6795109:35
jhuntpitti: sure, np. we could always get upstart to check for the existence of both directories and use the first it finds for safety.09:36
pittijhunt: ah, then it should prefer /run/initramfs/, and fall back to /dev/.initramfs09:37
pittithat indeed seems to be safe09:37
jhuntpitti: sure. this whole chunk of code can of course go away once upstart has full state passing :)09:37
pittijhunt: can you do this right in the upstream branch, or do you want me to go through the merge proposal/cherrypick steps?09:38
jhuntpitti: the upstream doesn't have this initramfs+pid file feature - it's Ubuntu-specific.09:38
pittiah, handy09:38
jhuntpitti: I've assigned the upstart part of that bug to me and will try to look at that today/monday.09:40
pittijhunt: thanks09:40
Amozhi all :)10:01
* Amoz hugs dholbach 10:08
apacheloggercjwatson: is there going to be a germinate version that can handle kubuntu seeds branches being owned by kubuntu-dev soon?10:18
cjwatsonapachelogger: why dodes germinate need to change?  you tell it where seeds live10:20
apacheloggercjwatson: -S also works for bzr?10:20
apachelogger--seed-source= that is10:21
cjwatsonapachelogger: yes10:21
cjwatsonor you can just use the default non-bzr mirror which is the default10:22
cjwatsoner, tautology, but YKWIM10:22
cjwatsonthe mirror at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/seeds/ points to kubuntu-dev for >= oneiric now10:22
cjwatsonand has done for a month or so10:23
apacheloggerok, thanks :)10:23
* dholbach hugs Amoz back :)10:33
dholbachAmoz, mvo uploaded your patch :)10:33
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
mvothanks Amoz creating the patch10:36
Amozdholbach, which one?10:36
dupondjeWho maintains http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ ?10:41
dholbachAmoz, sessioninstaller10:42
dholbachdupondje, geser and gaspa judging by the source10:43
persiadupondje, The ubuntuwire team.  I believe geser does most of the updates.10:43
Amozdholbach, ah. speaking of bugs, I wish to find a small project (preferably C) where I can dig a little deeper than just spelling mistakes10:47
Laibschanybody else having trouble with "sudo pbuilder-dist unstable create" on either lucid or natty?10:47
Amozcould also be python and such, just as long as I learn something about the debian eco system10:49
dholbachAmoz, you could try having a look at bugs tagged with "patch-needswork" - maybe there's a problem with an existing patch that just needs some fixing?10:50
persiaAmoz, Have you looked at crash bugs?  Those tend to be small fixes most of the time, but interesting to investigate.10:50
LaibschAmoz: are you more interested to package stuff or to code software?10:50
* Laibsch winks at persia, 久しぶり10:50
AmozLaibsch, packaging is new to me, and I'd love to learn how to package stuff. Even though I read manuals/tutorials, they rarely prepare one for the real world packaging errors =) However, I guess I'll do more good in the coding field for now10:52
Amozpersia, thanks, I will try to find some!10:52
dupondjegeser: Would it eventually possible to add the newest debian version in the ftbfs page ?10:52
dupondjethis way we can easly see if there is a new version in debian, which in alot of cases fixes the ftbfs10:53
LaibschAmoz: Great.  I maintain a couple of packages and I think I lack some of the skills you seem to have.  We could learn from and help each other if you are interested to co-maintain packages.  private chat?10:53
Amozdholbach, will investigate that too10:53
dholbachgeser, do you track bugs for the ftbfs page somewhere?10:53
AmozLaibsch, uuh, what skills do you refer to? I'm just a beginner ;)10:53
SatorisI try to upgrade from natty to oneiric alpha. The update manager starts but then fails with an error stating some packages can't be downloaded due to "403 forbidden". Should it work?10:57
LaibschSatoris: try #ubuntu+1 channel10:58
SatorisWill do, thanks.10:58
dupondjeI dunno if there is any chance of getting permissions to push a rebuild on launchpad ?10:59
cjwatsondupondje: the permissions for that are identical to upload permissions11:00
dupondjeoh ok11:00
cjwatsondupondje: what package/version?11:00
cjwatsondupondje: so you're saying that simply retrying those builds will work now?11:01
dupondjejust tried locally :)11:01
cjwatsondupondje: OK, retried11:01
dupondjegoing tru the ftbfs list now :)11:01
cjwatsonpitti: could you have a quick look at my debian-installer upload to lucid-proposed?  skaet says we want the 2.6.32-33 kernel for 10.04.311:04
pitticjwatson: looks straightforward, accepted11:08
geserdholbach: not yet, I plan to try to move the code to the ubuntuwire project (after that filing bugs should be possible)11:10
dholbachgeser, awesome11:11
geserdupondje: you mean to show if Debian has a newer version? code-wise it should be possible. Do you have any suggestion where to display it?11:12
dupondjegeser: yea indeed, show if there is newer debian version. I would put it next to the ubuntu version?11:14
persiaMaybe just have a small display indicator, which presents a link to the PTS if there is a new version?11:17
persiaThat page is already very information rich.11:17
dupondjeor a color ?11:17
dupondjeThink its just usefull to see quickly if there is newer version in debian11:17
cjwatsonpitti: ta11:18
persiadupondje, Colour where: on the package name?11:18
dupondjepersia: or on the PTS field ?11:19
dholbachjdstrand, were you happy with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sox/+bug/809619?11:19
ubottuUbuntu bug 809619 in sox (Ubuntu) "Please merge sox 14.3.2-1 (universe) from debian unstable" [Undecided,New]11:19
persiadupondje, Colour on the PTS field sounds reasonable.11:19
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
dupondjehttp://pastebin.ubuntu.com/644718/ => anyone has an idea ?11:51
jhuntpitti: I've got a fix for upstart+/run/initramfs in my stuff-and-nonsense ppa, but it might need a prod to get it built any time today :)12:00
pittijhunt: a "prod"?12:01
pittijhunt: ah, you mean PPA builders are congested?12:01
jhuntpitti: yeah :)12:01
pittijhunt: there, that should be better12:02
jhuntpitti: I'm having some pbuilder issues over here (including a bug I just found relating to /run :) so would like to build it in the ppa.12:03
jhuntpitti: thanks12:03
pittipatch looks fine to me, thanks!12:03
jdstranddholbach: I was yes. I thought I uploaded it. apparently I forgot. let me do that now12:28
* dholbach hugs jdstrand12:29
mdeslaurls: cannot access .: No such file or directory12:29
jdstrandmdeslaur: you caught that huh? :P12:30
mdeslaurjdstrand: busted :)12:30
jdstranddholbach: while I have you. there is a work item for me: "coordinate with dholbach on developer initiatives and create a weekly or monthly list of packages 10-15"12:31
jdstranddholbach: I worked on my other work item for developing a process to identify these12:31
jdstranddholbach: and have decided to suggest 5 packages per week in our weekly meeting12:32
dholbachjdstrand, that sounds great12:32
jdstranddholbach: I need to find another place besides the meeting minutes to have those12:32
jdstranddholbach: is there somewhere that you would suggest?12:33
dholbachjdstrand, if you give me the link to them or mention them to me, I'm happy to put them into my weekly update about ubuntu development12:33
dholbach(ubuntu news, omg!ubuntu! and other places)12:33
jdstranddholbach: cool. I think I can add them to our GettingInvolved page too12:33
jdstranddholbach: thanks! :)12:34
dholbachsweet - just let me know and I'll include them12:34
jdstranddholbach: expect to here from me on monday (our next meeting)12:34
jdstrandactually, we can have these be 9 days.... you might here from me today again :)12:34
jdstranddholbach: oh, one other thing, I wrote https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageSecurityUpdate and added it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes. a) was that the type of thing you had in mind for packaging guide integration, and b) would you mind reviewing it for me?12:40
dholbachjdstrand, I'm happy to have a look at it, sure - I'll add a TODO item12:40
dholbachfor the future it would be nice to get it into lp:ubuntu-packaging-guide12:40
jdstranddholbach: ah, I was unware of that12:41
jdstranddholbach: I might have missed it-- I looked at the Maintenance pages, but didn't see it12:41
dholbachbut getting the content right is the most important thing :)12:41
jdstranddholbach: shall I check it in now?12:41
dholbachjdstrand, it'd require a bit of reformatting (moin vs. ReStructured text)12:42
jdstranddholbach: is moin autogenerated from the ReStructured text?12:42
dholbachno, at some stage in the future we want to retire the Wiki pages12:43
jdstrandI see12:43
dholbachhttp://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/packaging-guide/html/ is the current guide12:43
jdstrandwell, I can check it in12:43
dholbachI think I even filed a bug for it12:43
dholbachif you don't mind doing it, I could review the MP12:43
jdstrandlet's do it that way12:44
dholbachyou are a hero12:44
jdstranddholbach: heh12:45
jdstranddholbach: so, this is what generates the pdf?12:45
dholbachhtml, pdf, epub and a whole lot of other things12:46
jdstranddholbach: huh, the branch doesn't see to coincide with the pdf I downloaded yesterday12:47
dholbachdo you remember where you got the pdf from?12:48
jdstranddholbach: well, yes, for example, "Welcome to the Ubuntu Packaging Guide12:48
jdstrand" is not in the introduction-to-ubuntu-development.rst12:48
jdstrandah, it is in index.rst12:48
jdstrandok, clearly this will take me a moment12:48
dholbachtake your time12:49
dholbachthanks a lot already for getting the content together12:49
jdstranddholbach: ok. I grepped for 'Recipes' (as is in the table of contents) and GnuPrivacyGuardHowto (which is in the 'Updating an Ubuntu Package12:50
jdstrand' recipe), but couldn't find it12:50
jdstranddholbach: where are the recipes?12:50
dholbachit's a different structure - let me for now just file a bug and review the wiki pages12:51
jdstranddholbach: (sorry if I am being dense)12:51
dholbachyou're not, don't worry12:51
jdstranddholbach: I'm happy to do the work :)12:51
dholbachok - for now you could just make it a separate article and we link to it from the knowledge base and from other articles12:52
jdstrandok, so something like 'update-package-security.rst' and then jam that into knowledge-base.rst12:53
Laibschanybody else having trouble with "sudo pbuilder-dist sid create" on either lucid or natty? I need a Debian unstable build environment.12:53
jdstrandI can do that12:53
* dholbach hugs jdstrand12:53
dholbachawesome! :)12:53
* jdstrand hugs dholbach 12:53
dholbachalright, I'll take the dog for a walk now - let me know if there's anything else I can do12:53
cyphermoxcjwatson: using libpipeline, how would I go about getting both stdout and stderr from the output of commands?12:55
kenvandine@pilot in12:56
=== udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: open | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> oneiric | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: dholbach, kenvandine
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
=== doko__ is now known as doko
cjwatsoncyphermox: I think you need an extension to libpipeline.  Could you file a bug report describing what you need, and I'll add support for it?13:09
cyphermoxcjwatson: sure, thanks13:14
=== ximion2 is now known as ximion
=== fabbione is now known as fabbione_vac
jibelpitti, buxy , about bug 541595, a way I've been able to reproduce during a dist-upgrade was to modify update-mime to always exit 1 and cause a failure during a release upgrade.13:29
ubottuLaunchpad bug 541595 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "[Master] package failed to install/upgrade: package is already installed and configured" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/54159513:29
jibelpitti, buxy this made the trigger fail and cause the 'already installed' error13:29
pittijibel: oh, nice13:30
jibelnot a dist-upgrade, during a release upgrade13:30
jibelbut that may work with a dist-upgrade too13:30
pittishouldn't really matter; anything which triggers the dpkg error message should suffice to test the bug pattern13:31
buxyjibel: but there are other cases that will trigger this error (other than just a failing trigger)13:35
buxyLike this one recently: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/80922313:36
ubottuUbuntu bug 809223 in apt (Ubuntu) "package startupmanager 1.9.13-5 failed to install/upgrade: package startupmanager is already installed and configured" [Undecided,New]13:36
buxyand where there's no obvious error at all13:37
pittibuxy: hey13:49
pittibuxy: the pattern is in place, just need to find/run a local test to verify that it's working13:49
=== zyga is now known as zyga-afk
buxypitti: I saw your mail, unfortunately I don't have one to provide you, I don't know if mvo got further since we discussed it but he had troubles reproducing it as well13:53
tkamppetermpt, hi13:54
mpthello tkamppeter13:55
tkamppetermpt, I did not see anything of g-c-c starting s-c-p or parts of it. I updated the system several times this week, and now I updated again and what I get is the new g-c-c printer setup tool and no button to add a printer.13:57
mpttkamppeter, ok, but at UDS you had a list of things that the g-c-c one didn't do.13:59
mpttkamppeter, I don't know enough about each of them to report meaningful bugs about them, but you do. :-)13:59
mvobuxy: I have not looked into this paricular one, but apt never does dpkg -i directly, always unpack/configure. it might be that the ordering code is confused and its configuring it at the wrong spot (or too early)14:00
tkamppetermpt, so the step of getting access to s-c-p in Oneiric is not started yet?14:01
pittitkamppeter: still underway, yes14:01
mpttkamppeter, my message wasn't about Oneiric. It's about 12.04 and 12.10 and so on.14:01
mvobuxy: actually this one looks like one of the apt recovery code kicked, I commented in the bug14:02
tkamppetermpt, what you need from me now is a list of bugs to work through to make g-c-c having all features of s-c-p, so that someone can so-to-say rewrite s-c-p in C, as far as it is needed?14:03
pittiFWIW, that sounds like a step backwards to me14:03
barrypitti: ping14:03
pittis-c-p is hardly performance critical, so the python overhead hardly matters14:03
pittian exception is the daemon which always runs in the user session14:04
pittihey barry; I'm talking, so I'm obviously here :)14:04
buxymvo: what represents the grouping between Log started/Log ended ? is this not equivalent to a call to dpkg ?14:05
mptpitti, I don't really care *how* the printer settings end up inside the System Settings window, whether that's by rewriting them or allowing Python panels or whatever else.14:05
pittimpt: so you prefer keeping the control panel, as opposed to a unity lens?14:05
barrypitti: :)  hi!  do you have any good references for starting to learn about pygi and g object introspection?  i'm looking at bug 806574, which leads me there, and i need to learn more about it anyway.  well, *is* there any good references? ;)14:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 806574 in computer-janitor (Ubuntu Oneiric) "computer-janitor-gtk crashed with AttributeError in reorder(): 'ListStore' object has no attribute 'reorder'" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80657414:05
mptpitti, I don't understand the question14:06
mptWhat does this have to do with Unity lenses?14:06
pittimpt: so right now we use the c-c shell, i. e. a window with all possible options14:06
* brendand has the same question as barry14:06
brendandseems not well documented14:06
pittimpt: in earlier releases we had the "System -> Preferences" menu instead; personally I preferred that, but in natty this was impractical due to the new unity14:07
tkamppetermpt, I could report a bug for each feature, telling for what the feature is good for and how to visualize it/try it out?14:07
pittimpt: but similar to the old menus which went into unity, the settings bits could move there as well?14:07
mvobuxy: a full operation of apt-get, this is why I'm puzzled, there is also no "commandline" information there, I wonder if its something like aptdaemon or packagekit that kicks in here actually violating some locking or something like this14:07
mpttkamppeter, I think the g-c-c developers would find that very helpful.14:07
pittitkamppeter: do you know what Tim thinks about this? it seems like an exceptional waste of developer time to port and bugfix s-c-p to a control center applet written in C..14:08
tkamppetermpt, should I do these bug reports upstream or on LP?14:08
mpttkamppeter, bugzilla.gnome.org14:08
barrybrendand: indeed14:09
pittibarry: I recently wrote https://live.gnome.org/PyGObject/IntrospectionPorting which is a fairly detailled braindump14:09
mptpitti, <mclasen_> we're actually working with twaugh to reasonable features shared between s-c-printer and the printer panel14:09
barrypitti: awesome, thanks.  i'll go digest that14:09
buxymvo: maybe it would be useful to add which libapt user is generating the log indeed14:09
tkamppeterpitti, mpt, I am completely against rewriting the features of s-c-p in C. What I like to have is that the Python code of the s-c-p features gets something like a library or plug-in which various printer setup tools (also of KDE) can use.14:10
* pitti shakes head.. that's what FOSS needs, rewriting everything that's alrady written in sensible languages in C..14:10
pittibarry: hmm, gtk_list_store_reorder() actually exists in C..14:11
barrypitti: yep, this code worked fine before the switch to pygi14:11
mvobuxy: yeah, we have a CommandLine tag for this in history.log now14:11
pittibarry: ah, there we go14:11
mpttkamppeter, fair enough.14:11
brendandpitti - i've seen that, it seems the best resource available atm14:11
pitti      <method name="reorder"14:11
pitti              c:identifier="gtk_list_store_reorder"14:11
pitti              introspectable="0">14:11
mpt So on the one hand we have language purity from developers of an OS that has ~0 users, and on the other hand practicality from an OS that does ~0 upstream development.14:12
pittibarry: so this needs to be fixed in GTK14:12
barrypitti: that was my suspicion based on something else i read.  where did you find that bit of xml?14:12
brendandif someone was a beginner to gtk completely they'd sort of need to mix that with another tutorial14:12
pittibarry: in the gir -- /usr/share/gir-1.0/Gtk-3.0.gir14:12
pittibrendand: so the fact that this part doesn't work is a bug, not a documentation issue14:13
barrypitti: thanks.  i'm sure there's a good reason why that's currently non-introspectable, but i don't know enough about this stuff yet.14:13
mpttkamppeter, but even if that library existed, each of its features would still need to be exposed in g-c-c *somehow*.14:13
brendandpitti - sorry, i'm going off on a tangent here14:13
dholbach@pilot out14:13
=== udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: open | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> oneiric | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: kenvandine
barrypitti: interesting, i don't have that file14:14
pittibarry: libgtk-3-dev14:14
mptpitti, I'm surprised you liked the old Preferences menu. :-) I regard the System Settings window as not perfect, but a massive improvement, for several reasons, including less scrolling and less closing of windows.14:15
pittibarry: my initial hunch is that it's because it passes an array of ints of unknown size14:15
barrypitti: ack.  /me apt-gets14:15
pittimpt: I like being able to do windows + "mouse" to get to the settings I want14:15
pittinow, that already works today14:15
pittibut sometimes it's indeed useful to have a collection of all preferences14:16
pittiit's just that upstream control-center now makes this exceptionally har14:16
mptpitti, there's no reason g-c-c can't be searchable, apart from a lack of planning14:16
mptsearchable from the Dash, I mean14:16
pittimpt: it is14:16
tkamppetermpt, so I will report all the features as separate upstream bugs and after that create a master bug which depends on all these bugs. In each bug I will also paste in a piece of text telling to not try to rewrite s-c-p in C or to freely invent this described functionality. I will also CC Tim Waugh and other people (tell me who) to all these bug reports to let them discuss and agree on a solution. WDYT?14:17
mptpitti, so what do you mean by "makes this exceptionally hard"? (I'm in 11.04 right now, installed Ocelot on another partition yesterday)14:17
pittimpt: my worries are that g-c-c has become pretty much a locked fortress now, and we aren't able to and don't want to rewrite all our configuration bits to be an upstream control center capplet in just a cycle or two14:17
pittiaside from the fact that this would be completely impractical14:18
pittiso it'll be a hack either way14:18
mptpitti, rewriting them all in Nux and C++ would be even *less* practical!14:18
pittimpt: c-c in 3.0/3.2 now forbids external/distro specific settings14:18
pittimpt: ?14:18
mptpitti, I know, I organized the UDS session about that.14:18
=== YDdraigGoch is now known as WelshDragon
pittimpt: and embedded panels pretty much require in-process code and C14:18
pittimpt: who said we'd need to?14:19
mptpitti, and it was Ubuntu's patch to override that which sparked the discussion about printer settings in #gnome-os this morning.14:19
mptpitti, you did, by suggesting that they be a Unity lens.14:19
pittiI'm in favor of (1) being able to write settings bits in Python or other languages, and keep our stuff, as it also provides KDE frontends14:19
pittiand (2) still being able to get a consoliated view of all settings apps14:19
pittibut if upstream g-c- doesn't want us to add our own stuff, and we have this wonderful unity thing anyway, why not make a lens which shows all available settings things14:20
pittipretty much like the old system -> prefs menu did14:20
pittiand get rid of the c-c shell window14:20
pittiwhich sticks out like a sore thumb from the session menu anyway14:20
pittithat doesn't require any reimplementation -- it's just showing all desktop files with a "Settings" category14:21
mptpitti, because that would be punishing users (by making them open and close more windows) because of an implementation detail14:22
pittihow so?14:23
=== kentb-out is now known as kentb
tkamppeterpitti, mpt, I also do not like to have "System Settings" in the "Off-Button" menu. As it moved to there I needed a certain time to find it and nearly reported a bug about disappeared System Settings, that about usability.14:23
pittiwhether you open it through a lens or the shell, it's the same number of clicks?14:23
pittimy train station is coming up, back in ~ 30 mins14:23
tkamppeterpitti, mpt, what is a unity lens>14:24
mpttkamppeter, it's a black overlay that covers most of the screen and presents things to search or launch14:27
mptThe things that appear if you click "Applications" or "Files & Folders" in the launcher are examples of lenses.14:27
mptpitti, simple example. Every time you disconnect from AC power, the screen dims. You want to turn that off. You open the lens and choose "Power", but it isn't there. Eventually you figure out that it's in "Screen" instead.14:29
mptpitti, with a lens, that would be : (1) open lens, (2) open Power, (3) close Power, (4) reopen lens, (5) open Screen, (6) close Screen.14:29
mptpitti, with g-c-c, it's: (1) open g-c-c, (2) open Power, (3) click "All Settings", (4) open Screen, (5) close g-c-c.14:29
tkamppetermpt, thanks. Such a thing, with a decent icon, not the standard magnifier, would make the system settings much easier to find.14:29
mptpitti, the more settings you want to change at once, the greater the savings.14:30
mpt(It was even worse for the Preferences and Administration menus: partly because there were two of them, increasing the probability of errors, and partly because they were both submenus, increasing the cost of each error.)14:31
tkamppetermpt, are the bug reports still needed? Or will we go away from this over-rigid System Settings on the Off button to a lens which let us continue to use any application?14:33
mpttkamppeter, this has nothing to do with the Off button and nothing to do with lenses.14:33
mpttkamppeter, yes, please report the bugs.14:34
tkamppetermpt, if we switch to a lens, we should patch away the System Settings entry in the Off menu or let this entry also open the lens to avoid that users use inferior duplicates of the config tools.14:34
cr3barry: out of curiosity, have you heard about any problems importing psycopg2 on oneiric? ImportError: can't import mx.DateTime module14:35
mptSomebody, please, give me something to bash my head against14:35
cr3barry: I'm about to try to reproduce myself, just curious beforehand14:35
mpttkamppeter, this has nothing to do with the Off button and nothing to do with lenses.14:36
pittimpt: actually, it's not totally unrelated to lenses14:36
mptThe g-c-c developers do not care about Unity at all, let alone lenses in particular.14:36
pittimpt: as with a lens, we can easily have s-c-p itself instead of waiting for it to be NIHed in c-c14:37
tkamppetermpt, I was only thinking about how in Ubuntu Linux system settings are presented the bnest way, easy to find and conserving the know-how which has made it into the tools in all the years ...14:37
tkamppetermpt, NIHed?14:38
mpttkamppeter, I am not involved in the design of Unity. I can explain (and just did explain) why settings shouldn't be in the Dash, but I can't guarantee they won't ever be there.14:39
cjwatsonmvo: have you noticed bug 807715?14:40
ubottuLaunchpad bug 807715 in update-manager (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Missing dependency on gir1.2-gconf-2.0" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80771514:40
mvocjwatson: I have a look14:42
tkamppetermpt, sorry, who is the right one to discuss with about the design decision of how System Settings tools are made available in Ubuntu?14:44
LaibschAre all packages that FTBFS due to missing packages listed in http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/? I just tried to build isdnutils and oneiric is missing tcl8.3-dev14:47
=== ximion1 is now known as ximion
mpttkamppeter, JohnLea14:49
pittimvo: did you see the question to you in bug 806559?14:51
ubottuLaunchpad bug 806559 in lightdm (Ubuntu Oneiric) "debconf prompt about DM to use during natty->oneiric" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80655914:51
pittimvo: I started discussing this with Robert, but I'd appreciate your input which solution is better14:51
mvopitti: sure, I have a look14:57
Riddellpackaging guide reviewers:  https://code.launchpad.net/~jr/ubuntu-packaging-guide/fixes/+merge/67951 https://code.launchpad.net/~jr/ubuntu-packaging-guide/02-udd-introduction/+merge/68078 https://code.launchpad.net/~jr/ubuntu-packaging-guide/03-packaging-from-scratch/+merge/6809915:00
nemoI do wish archive.canonical.com was accessible over https...15:00
nemoOver here, I have 2 options for updating the ubuntu machines.  ftp protocol for mirrors that support, http for mirror.anl.gov that I fought to get websense whitelisted, or https.15:00
nemounfortunately, none of those work for sun java which is only available from archive.canonical.com15:01
nemohmmm. maybe archive.canonical.com supports ftp!15:01
* nemo tests15:01
nemonope :(15:01
* nemo sighs and copies the file over manually15:02
=== shadeslayer_ is now known as shadeslayer
jdstranddholbach: ok, wrote fixing-a-bug-security.rst and proposed the merge just now15:10
nemos/2 options/3 options/15:12
dholbachjdstrand, you rock - will have a look in a bit15:12
jdstranddholbach: thanks! :)15:12
=== ximion is now known as ximion1
cr3barry: so, I can confirm there's a problem with python-psycopg2 on oneiric when importing mx.DateTime. I tried bzr branch lp:ubuntu/psycopg2; debuild; dpkg -i ../*.deb and that worked. trying pbuilder in case it builds the package differently15:29
barrycr3: interesting.  have you filed a bug yet?15:30
cr3barry: not yet, bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/psycopg2 seemed sparse, so I'm waiting to gather more info to report15:31
=== jpds_ is now known as jpds
cr3cyphermox: is there still a problem with pbuilder create for generating an oneiric tarball on oneiric?15:35
highvoltage1/win 2015:36
* cr3 doesn't have the patience to setup an sbuild environment :(15:36
cyphermoxcr3: I haven't tried lately. like I said, I switched to using sbuild following mdeslaur's advice ;)15:38
cr3cyphermox: security > usability, I guess :)15:39
cyphermoxno, it's not that. It's just as simple as pbuilder, really15:40
cr3cyphermox: have you read that wiki page? I feel asleep part of the way through :(15:40
cyphermoxlike I told you, don't bother with the umt script thing, just the first part of the wiki page; there's something like 2-3 files to modify/create and then you run the commands to build the chroots15:41
cr3cyphermox: can you remind me of the wiki page url again? google is returning this but this but I vaguely recall the page being different: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto15:42
brendandwhere do i find extra gobject typelibs?15:44
brendandlooking for GUdev, it's not in /usr/lib/girepository-1.015:45
brendandnot sure about the package name15:45
cyphermoxbrendand: gir1.2-gudev-1.0 maybe15:46
barrycyphermox, cr3 i use sbuild almost exclusively too, though occasionally pbuilder.  that security team page rocks15:46
dholbachLast day of UDW (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek) starting in 15 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom15:46
brendandcyphermox - in general is it gir1.2-*?15:46
cyphermoxit is15:46
cr3barry: I'll give sbuild a try once again and I reported bug #811115 for now15:48
ubottuLaunchpad bug 811115 in psycopg2 (Ubuntu) "[oneiric] ImportError: can't import mx.DateTime module" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/81111515:49
pitticjwatson: ah, seems I misread the original numbers: the old ibus-pinyin didn't take 15 MB, but just 1.5; apt-get install ibus-pinyin additionally pulls in pinyin-database (14 MB), but that wasn't on the CDs15:55
pittiso moving to sunpinyin actually caused a 17 MB increase, not 415:56
barrycr3: i'll take a look after lunch15:56
cjwatsonpitah, wow15:56
cjwatsonpitti: ^-15:56
pitticjwatson: so I guess we'll go back to pinyin for the standard CDs if we need to retain Chinese support there, and only use sunpinyin for the Chinese Edition/check-language-support15:56
cjwatsonthat seems the only practical choice, from what you've said, yes15:57
cjwatson(of course note that the installer uses check-language-support ...)15:57
pitticjwatson: it seems fine for downloading if you are online15:57
pittibut ibus-pinyin with ibus-pinyin-db-open-phrase at least provides a reasonable offline fallback15:58
cr3barry: I'm hoping to have more information or suggest a patch once I get my sbuild environment running15:58
pittigood night everyone16:12
=== beuno is now known as beuno-lunch
bdrungjamespage: eclipse ping16:26
SpamapSCopyright: 1979-2007, MySQL AB16:30
SpamapSWhoa.. how long have they actually existed?! :-P16:30
slangasekSpamapS: heh16:33
SpamapSthats on a one line shell script.. :-P16:33
SpamapSone line, 684 chars long :-P16:33
slangasekclearly someone is confused about copyright :)16:34
SpamapSheh, I think maybe by now they can drop it.. 'msql2mysql.sh'16:34
SpamapSHeh.. I'm not so sure licensecheck2dep5 is helping here.. :-P16:37
SpamapSI think its accurate.. but.. a 3000+ line copyright file is probably a bit too detailed.16:38
slangasekwhere's that from?16:38
SpamapSslangasek: its in cdbs.. scheduled for appearance in devscripts at some point16:38
slangasekin cdbs!16:38
broderlicensecheck2dep5> whoaaaaa16:38
broderthat's awesome16:39
hyperairthat thing should go into devscripts16:39
slangasekno, it clearly isn't, it should do something more sensible than generating a 3000+ line copyright file :)16:39
ubottuDebian bug 472199 in devscripts "[licensecheck] Generate machine readable copyright file" [Wishlist,Open]16:39
hyperairslangasek: it does a great job at summarizing stuff.16:39
SpamapSMySQL *is* extremely detailed in their files16:40
hyperairi usually start from licensecheck2dep5, and then trim stuff down16:40
SpamapS3781 ../copyright16:40
SpamapShyperair: I think it MIGHT be a little bit crackheaded in this case. ;)16:40
slangasekis it 3000+ lines of copyright holder names, or is it 3000+ lines of silly per-file statements because it doesn't use sensible heuristics for aggregation?16:41
SpamapSPer file16:41
SpamapSThere are only 2 or 3 copyright holders.. since MySQL has a CLA16:41
hyperairSpamapS: i'd rather start from the licensecheck2dep5 output than from licensecheck's raw output16:41
SpamapSSun, FSF, MySQL AB, Oracle, and Innobase16:42
slangasekSpamapS: right; so I consider that a significant bug in the tool16:42
SpamapSOh and NetBSD since they embed libedit.. how lovely16:42
slangasekbecause it does exactly what the dep5 critics say they don't want to have to deal with on their packages :)16:42
SpamapShyperair: Contributor Licensing Agreement.16:42
hyperairah i see16:42
SpamapSActually I think its simpler, they just require assignment.16:43
hyperairthat's just CA16:43
bdmurraycjwatson: I'd rather not do this but I think memtest could use a source package hook refiling some bugs about grub16:43
hyperaircopyright assignment, is it not?16:43
hyperairsimilar to canonical's16:43
SpamapSslangasek: agreed, it should be able to look at the massive chunk of files and use globbing.. and year heuristics16:43
* SpamapS hacks a bit on it16:44
slangasekthere's probably enough information there to pick a "default" copyright statement for the upstream source16:44
SpamapSslangasek: the most common gets the * .. ;)16:44
slangasekSpamapS: already?16:45
SpamapSslangasek: no, I was thinking of doing that16:45
slangasekah, yes16:45
broderhow much of the variation is from differences in the exact copyright statement, as opposed to the license?16:55
broder(i.e. differences in year or something)16:55
SpamapSbroder: a lot16:57
kenvandine@pilot out17:04
=== udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: open | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> oneiric | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
=== beuno-lunch is now known as beuno
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
=== zyga-afk is now known as zyga
=== abhinav_ is now known as abhinav-
=== deryck is now known as deryck[lunch]
barrycr3: bug 81119318:13
ubottuLaunchpad bug 811193 in psycopg2 (Ubuntu) "Sync psycopg2 2.4.2-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/81119318:13
cr3barry: noticed the email, I really like the dh_python2 for free part :)18:15
barrycr3: indeed! :)18:15
=== n1xNc0d3 is now known as muneeb
=== jtaylor_ is now known as jtaylor
vikapiusing kubuntu11.04..my rkonq is crashing quite frequently.18:45
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
=== deryck[lunch] is now known as deryck
micahgvikapi: you probably want #kubuntu19:03
vikapimicahg: thought wud report to developers.19:07
micahgvikapi: then you probably want #kubuntu-devel19:09
SpamapS  3781 ../copyright19:09
SpamapS  2567 ../new.copyright19:09
SpamapSHeh.. progress19:09
* SpamapS plods on19:09
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
bdmurrayIs there somebody who wouldn't mind sponsoring openssh for me?  I just made a change to the apport package hook.19:20
infinitybdmurray: Sure.19:24
infinitybdmurray: Sufficiently tested and such, I hope? :)19:24
sladenbdmurray: simple un-intent?  What if statement was it originally under?19:26
infinitysladen: un-indent plus a newline!19:26
infinity(putting it outside the if)19:26
sladeninfinity: yeah, wondering what the if statement was/is19:27
bdmurraythere is a ui.yesno regarding sensitive info in /etc/ssh/ssh_config19:27
bdmurrayand asking whether or not you want to include it19:28
infinitybdmurray: Have you tested this?19:28
infinitybdmurray: It looks to me like these lines might just exit straight out:19:28
infinity    if response == None: # user cancelled19:29
infinity        raise StopIteration19:29
bdmurrayyes that's true19:29
infinitybdmurray: Which means your code will never get run.19:29
bdmurrayno, if the dialog box is closed by clicking X and you don't choose yes or no that happens19:29
infinityAhh.  Fair enough.  I don't speak apport, so wasn't sure what the dialog responses would be.19:30
infinitySo, None = cancel and back out, True = include private stuff, False = include only non-private stuff?19:30
bdmurraythat's correct19:31
infinityMmkay.  Signing and uploading.19:31
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
nigelbtumbleweed: ping19:56
tumbleweednigelb: hi19:56
nigelbtumbleweed: lightning talks start in 3 mins, can you join #ubuntu-classroom-backstage? :)19:57
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
SpamapSslangasek: well I'm down from 3781 lines to 2305 ... :)20:45
SpamapSI've managed to get each "owner" line down to one.20:46
SpamapSand directories in which all files fall into the same owner are *'d ..20:46
SpamapSThere's a merge operation now that needs to happen..20:47
SpamapSactually I'm not even convinced thats true..20:47
SpamapSmysql files are all single copyright holder from what I can see.20:47
SpamapShrm.. licensecheck seems to be broken when a copyright spans multiple lines.20:49
SpamapS   Copyright (C) 1984, 1989, 1990, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 200620:49
SpamapS   Free Software Foundation, Inc.20:49
SpamapSThat produces an empty copyright holder20:49
cjwatsoninfinity: openssh is maintained in lp:ubuntu/openssh, and the importer is having trouble with openssh at the moment.  Could you please commit the changes you sponsored there?21:03
infinitycjwatson: Can do.21:07
infinitycjwatson: Done.21:12
DavieySpamapS: Is this mysql 5.5 or the current package in Debian?21:22
ubottucjwatson, jdong, pitti, skaet, ScottK, kees, Daviey, pgraner: reporting regression in a stable release update; investigate severity, start an incident report, perhaps have the package blacklisted from the archive21:28
mikewhateverThe 2.6.32-33.70 kernel update introduced some Elantech touchpad related changes.21:31
mikewhateverRelevant bug #780588.21:32
ubottuLaunchpad bug 780588 in linux (Ubuntu Lucid) "Lucid update to v2. stable release" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/78058821:32
mikewhateverThe touchpad on my Dell Mini 10 is now unusable - its dimentiones are wrong, right click is jumpy, etc.21:33
=== rsalveti` is now known as rsalveti
brycehmikewhatever, did you boot to the earlier kernel and verify it is the kernel update?21:59
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
micahgany AAs who know how to copy stuff still around?23:11
slangasekmicahg: there are only two of us in Pacific Time, you could poke us by name ;)23:13
micahgslangasek: I could, but I didn't want to bother you if you we busy with something23:14
slangasekmicahg: what do you have?23:14
micahgslangasek: could you please copy thunderbird from security to updates for maverick and natty only, *NO LUCID* :)23:14
slangasekack, looking23:14
slangasekmicahg: done23:17
micahgslangasek: thanks!, have a great weekend23:17
slangasekmicahg: you too :)23:17
SpamapSDaviey: 5.523:29

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