/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/15/#ubuntu-uk.txt

MooDoo	morning all	07:02
AlanBell	morning	07:15
DJones	Morning all	07:36
MooDoo	morning	07:41
DJones	Hi MooDoo	07:42
MooDoo	AlanBell, how were your meetings in london?	07:55
AlanBell	jolly good :)	07:55
AlanBell	in Germany now	07:55
AlanBell	but basically, yes, we are going to do what I proposed	07:55
MooDoo	AlanBell, blimey, do you do a lot of travelling?	07:55
* DJones wonders whether sabdfl has a connection problem		07:56
AlanBell	not that much these days	07:56
MooDoo	AlanBell, so what's in germany today then?	07:58
AlanBell	in the Bundesministerium fur Wirtschaft und Technologyie	07:58
AlanBell	http://www.odfplugfest.de/	07:58
MooDoo	cool.....	07:59
jpds	No, that's alwys there, not just today.	07:59
AlanBell	indeed, it has been here for a while	07:59
jpds	AlanBell: http://tinyurl.com/5wjavx8	08:04
jpds	AlanBell: Best Currywurst place, ever.	08:04
MooDoo	someone having connection issues?	08:11
DJones	Not just someone, "The One" even	08:11
DJones	I did think about setting a forward to ##fixyourconnection, but probably wouldn't very politic to do that :)	08:12
MooDoo	DJones, hee hee :)	08:12
popey	Morning all	08:15
jpds	popey: Morning.	08:16
MooDoo	morning popey how are you this morening?	08:17
bigcalm	Good morning peeps :)	08:21
oimon	HazRPG: morning, just saw your message on scrollback, thanks, i already fixed the issue using adb shell and a symbolic link :D	08:22
oimon	CM uses a download cache partition that's too small (and shares it with dalvik cache)	08:22
oimon	i must say, google plus isn't really getting a massive following amongst my acquaintances	08:23
MooDoo	oimon, 10 million people so far	08:25
AlanBell	I have 139 Ubuntu people, 22 LotusGeeks	08:26
AlanBell	not much else	08:26
popey	great	08:26
popey	MooDoo: saw your tweet about adsense	08:26
oimon	AlanBell: plese say lotus car and not lotus notes :D	08:26
popey	You need to get a crate load more visitors to have any hope of people clicking ads	08:26
AlanBell	oimon: Notes	08:26
popey	and need to appeal to non-techies, who wont have adblock	08:26
* oimon loads his gun		08:26
DJones	I was going to suggest lotus flowers	08:26
AlanBell	I am a retired LotusGeek	08:27
jussi	is there an adblock for andorid?	08:27
popey	MooDoo: take OMGUbuntu for example. They earn crazy amounts of adsense money	08:27
popey	because they get metric tonnes of hits	08:27
oimon	know how much popey?	08:27
popey	i do	08:27
TheOpenSourcerer	jussi: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Adblock+for+Android	08:28
popey	(maybe)	08:28
popey	It's pretty amazing what they've done with that site	08:29
MooDoo	popey, my site is pretty crappy at the moment to be honest, i think tha's part of the problem.....	08:29
oimon	there was certainly a niche in the market	08:29
MooDoo	and i don't blog enough.....content is king	08:29
popey	i dont think thats the issue ☺	08:30
popey	ok, chaps I have a question for you	08:30
popey	imagine you're going to an event such as "OggCamp", on a scale of 1 (not annoying) to 10 (really annoying) how annoyed would you be if there was no free wifi there?	08:30
MooDoo	popey, normally i wouldn't be bothered, but as it's a techy event, i would say 8/9	08:31
AlanBell	is there cheap wifi there?	08:31
oimon	i'd say 5 for myself, since i have mobile internet on my phone	08:31
BigRedS	It's free, not at all. There's never wifi at LPWs and nobody minds	08:31
popey	AlanBell: please answer the question	08:31
popey	☺	08:31
AlanBell	s/cheap/fast/	08:31
jussi	popey: 9	08:31
AlanBell	I would be annoyed if there was no wifi	08:32
TheOpenSourcerer	popey: Not that bothered - have unlimited data plan on my phone and service is "ok" at the maltings.	08:32
popey	BigRedS: LPW?	08:32
TheOpenSourcerer	2/10	08:32
popey	TheOpenSourcerer: what network?	08:32
BigRedS	popey: london perl workshop	08:32
TheOpenSourcerer	O2	08:32
popey	ta	08:32
oimon	popey: maybe word it another way: if the wifi was X pounds per day/hour, would you pay it, or use mobile 2g/3g instead	08:32
AlanBell	actually, I have a phone I would tether, I wouldn't give a toss	08:32
popey	please forget pay wifi	08:32
popey	I was very clear on my question	08:32
AlanBell	1	08:32
popey	I'd like to keep it to that	08:32
MooDoo	8	08:33
dogmatic69	popey: 0	08:33
dogmatic69	as long as there was mobile signal that is	08:33
bigcalm	popey: 1. the event is partly about connecting with people there, not over g+	08:33
BigRedS	so 0 , in case you're doing fancy parsing of logs to get votes	08:33
AlanBell	1 personally, would be interesting from a video perspective if there was stacks of upload bandwidth	08:33
dogmatic69	bigcalm: you mean actually talk to people :S	08:34
AlanBell	dogmatic69: mobile signal is fine	08:34
MooDoo	shall we just answer his question with numbers?	08:34
MooDoo	lol	08:34
bigcalm	For those presenting, a connection might be useful. But people should be prepaired	08:34
BigRedS	I think we should trunk 3G devices to get enough bandwidth to upload video	08:34
MooDoo	i that's what he wants	08:34
awilkins	22dB	08:34
bigcalm	popey: i	08:34
popey	ok	08:35
popey	so the venue doesn't have wifi coverage over all the rooms	08:35
popey	I am trying to sort some kind of solution	08:35
popey	but it's expensive	08:35
bigcalm	Have wifi in one room so that those that can't live without twitter can update	08:35
BigRedS	though LPW does have hard-to-saturate 3G coverage as something of a mitigating circumstance. But it's normal there to not be dossing around on the net in talks	08:35
awilkins	Could a mesh network be erected that used the existing connections as a gateway?	08:36
bigcalm	popey: how good is the building's fabric at blocking 3g signals?	08:36
popey	pass	08:36
popey	its an old building	08:37
popey	listed so running cables is hard	08:37
bigcalm	Hummz	08:37
JamesTait	Good morning all!	08:37
bigcalm	I'm almost tempted to not bring a laptop this year	08:37
bigcalm	But then, how would I play minecraft?	08:37
awilkins	Old buildings tend to block RF better than newer ones (unless the newer one has been designed to do so)	08:37
oimon	but there would be wifi zone somewhere? that's not bad at all	08:38
bigcalm	Get somebody on a unlimited data plan to tether. Does mean them staying put all day	08:40
oimon	i'd like to reduce my score to a 1 if there is wifi somewhere in the building	08:41
bigcalm	Just knowing that there is wifi, even if you don't use it?	08:41
BigRedS	It's in a town, isn't it? Surely there's a cafe within reasonable distance that'll do wifi for the cost of a coffee for those who somehow need it	08:42
BigRedS	?	08:42
bigcalm	MacDonalds has free wifi...	08:42
oimon	maybe there should be a talk about disconnecting from the internet	08:42
bigcalm	oimon: nicely volenteered	08:42
oimon	:D	08:42
bigcalm	volenteered	08:42
oimon	volunteered	08:43
* BigRedS imagines a demonstration of unplugging a cat5 lead and then nothing else		08:43
bigcalm	Yes, my copy failed	08:43
oimon	maybe rigged up to a heart monitor	08:43
HazRPG	oimon: ah, good stuff ^_^	08:43
HazRPG	also, morning all	08:43
oimon	as we see ..the patients heart rate returns to normal after 15 minutes	08:44
MooDoo	oimon, i did last week when i was on hols in whitby, it was refreshing to have no internet	08:44
MooDoo	not even a phone signal	08:44
oimon	twitter is better when you refresh once a day and read all the stuff	08:45
oimon	rather than every 10 mins	08:45
oimon	cos u realise so much of it is dross	08:45
czajkowski	morning all	08:48
bigcalm	Hi czajkowski	08:51
bigcalm	oimon: depends upon whom you follow	08:51
MooDoo	czajkowski, aloha :p	08:53
czajkowski	oimon: depends on who you follow i regularly hae great discussions with people interactively with them via twitter	08:54
oimon	tbh i tend to use twitter rather differently, mainly as an rss feed	08:55
oimon	AKA one-way communication/broadcast feed	08:55
oimon	i think i'm just not a twitter fan	08:55
Daviey	czajkowski: 'great' discussions? :)	09:05
DJones	oimon: I use twitter in the same way, mainly as a news feed rather than two way communication	09:05
czajkowski	well myself and acruiz had a good old rant there yesterday about the use of Mac OSx being used to give keynotes at oss events	09:06
MooDoo	czajkowski, is it really that much of an issue?	09:17
AlanBell	I am currently being amused by the number of people here presenting about ODF using .ppt files	09:18
AlanBell	not all, some are using .odp	09:18
oimon	i am often surprised by the number of people who develop for ubuntu and tweet from their mac	09:18
MooDoo	oimon, most are using ubuntu in virtual box type situation ......	09:19
oimon	i find it bizarre. noticed a few people who have been staunch ubuntu fans and then got a mac and go on about it for ages.	09:20
directhex	tsk.	09:20
directhex	i developer for debian from ubuntu, does that count?	09:20
oimon	e.g. ryan paul and the omgubuntu boys	09:20
czajkowski	MooDoo: pisses me off no end	09:20
czajkowski	directhex: yes but you're special in a good way :)	09:21
BigRedS	I only use Ubuntu at work...	09:21
MooDoo	BigRedS, i use fedora at work.....	09:21
BigRedS	ew	09:22
MooDoo	bigcalm, if it works i'll use it, i'm not fussed what the os is	09:22
MooDoo	but that's a discussion for another year :)	09:23
BigRedS	I was amused to see a couple of windows laptops at fosdem	09:23
daubers	lo	09:23
MooDoo	lo daubers	09:23
MooDoo	BigRedS, i've seen that too, but they are normally work laptops	09:24
czajkowski	BigRedS: one guy 2 years ago presented on one in the keynote room	09:26
czajkowski	interesting talk	09:26
czajkowski	but there was much heckling going on about his windows machine	09:26
oimon	freedom ideology is quite a big part of why i use linux. not in an extreme RMS way, but it is still significant	09:27
JGJones	I use Ubuntu - at home and at work (in last 2 jobs) and now as freelance, it's still ubuntu	09:29
AlanBell	if anyone is feeling bored please feel free to go through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ReApprovalApplication2011 and add dates when we did stuff, and link in pictures	09:31
AlanBell	and add extra stuff	09:31
Daviey	I use Ubuntu/Linux because i don't know how to use other OS's :)	09:31
MooDoo	JGJones, i use a mixture of ubuntu, fedora and windows 7	09:32
JGJones	MooDoo - I don't have Windows 7 - I haven't even used it yet. I can't find a reason for paying for it - it's not going to bring me anything that I can't get with Windows XP or Vista which I already have OEM licences for)	09:34
dogmatic69	anyone know if afplay is available for ubuntu?	09:34
brobostigon	!info afplay	09:35
lubotu3	Package afplay does not exist in natty	09:35
dogmatic69	any idea how to play .wav from cmd then?	09:36
MartijnVdS	dogmatic69: mplayer?	09:36
daubers	AlanBell: Reading through that list, we should really make an Ubuntu board game	09:38
MartijnVdS	daubers: "Community Chest" -> "Community Council"?	09:39
dogmatic69	is there a easy command for terminal to see if a program is installed?	09:39
MartijnVdS	dogmatic69: dpkg -l or apt-cache policy	09:39
MartijnVdS	that or just type its name :)	09:39
dogmatic69	ye, just want to do something like if[ installed foo] ..	09:40
daubers	MartijnVdS: "CEO Stuck on ISS after missing his shuttle home, miss a go"	09:41
MartijnVdS	dogmatic69: if [ -e /some/binary ]; echo "/some/binary exists"; fi	09:41
MartijnVdS	uhr	09:41
MartijnVdS	dogmatic69: if [ -e /some/binary ]; then echo "/some/binary exists"; fi	09:41
dogmatic69	a ye	09:41
dogmatic69	nice	09:41
MartijnVdS	dogmatic69: check "man test" for more	09:41
AlanBell	or "which gedit" to get the path to the binary	09:42
dogmatic69	MartijnVdS: locate foo works also	09:42
MartijnVdS	AlanBell: if it's in PATH	09:42
MartijnVdS	dogmatic69: it works but it's not instant	09:42
dogmatic69	which is better	09:42
MartijnVdS	dogmatic69: locate-info only gets updated once a day	09:42
dogmatic69	ah, and which?	09:43
MartijnVdS	which is instant, but requires the binary to be in $PATH	09:43
dogmatic69	sure	09:43
MartijnVdS	!xyproblem	09:43
MartijnVdS	!xy	09:43
lubotu3	The XY problem is when you need to do X, and you think you can use Y to do X, so you ask about how to do Y, when what you really should do is state what your X problem is. There may be a Z solution that is even better than Y, but nobody can suggest it if X is never mentioned.	09:43
MartijnVdS	dogmatic69: Which problem are you trying to solve?	09:43
dogmatic69	well im just doing if(notEmpty(which foo)){ foo $params} // excuse the fake code	09:43
MartijnVdS	what are you trying to accomplish?	09:44
dogmatic69	im trying to support something on mac and linux	09:44
dogmatic69	so if there is afplay its mac, if not its linux	09:44
MartijnVdS	dogmatic69: easier way:	09:45
dogmatic69	or, if there is afplay use afplay, if there is mplayer use it, etc	09:45
MartijnVdS	dogmatic69: case "`uname`" in	09:45
MartijnVdS	Linux)	09:45
MartijnVdS	do_linuxy_thing	09:45
MartijnVdS	;;	09:45
MartijnVdS	WhateverMacosReturns)	09:46
MartijnVdS	do_mac_thing	09:46
MartijnVdS	;;	09:46
MartijnVdS	*)	09:46
MartijnVdS	help_dontknow_what_to_do	09:46
dogmatic69	ye, that is possible	09:46
MartijnVdS	;;	09:46
MartijnVdS	esac	09:46
MartijnVdS	sorry for hte on-channel coding :)	09:46
dogmatic69	i think doing which for the player is better as it could support others	09:46
MartijnVdS	dogmatic69: you can have the case fill a variable and use that	09:47
=== denny- is now known as denny
andylockran	howdy guys	09:56
andylockran	:)	09:56
andylockran	popey: beep beep	09:56
andylockran	that's £32.43 please - thanks for shopping with andylockran enterprises	09:56
gord	that's pretty good value	09:56
andylockran	gord: yeah.. setting up scanners to scan the product code of scanners to do asset tags	09:59
andylockran	I should have just pointed them all at each other and done a single click to scan them all at once	10:00
daubers	andylockran: mirrors?	10:01
davmor2	happy friday all	10:05
MooDoo	hullo davmor2	10:05
andylockran	heylo davmor2	10:06
bigcalm	\o/	10:07
gord	wish someone would do rfid for all groceries already	10:08
bigcalm	rfid?	10:08
gord	rfid tags?	10:08
bigcalm	Oh	10:08
bigcalm	RF ID	10:08
daubers	bigcalm: Bit like aphids, but completley different	10:08
bigcalm	daubers: my mind could not parse the it any other way than as a word	10:09
daubers	heh	10:09
davmor2	MooDoo: me owld mukka happy Friday it's here at last man it's been a long week	10:38
MooDoo	davmor2, tell me about it, busy weekend for me too.......:S	10:39
MooDoo	davmor2, got anything planned?	10:51
=== carlosr is now known as Guest57719
davmor2	trip to the black country museum and a chillout kill things sunday	10:51
bigcalm	Ooo, haven't been to the bcm since I was a child	10:52
davmor2	bigcalm: ditto	10:53
bigcalm	I liked the barge trip through the tunnel the most	10:53
MooDoo	never been myself to be honest, wife is having a garden party say	10:54
MooDoo	saturday	10:55
bigcalm	Ok, Saturday	10:55
oimon	seen that game "beep" they mentioned on OMG? looks fun	10:56
oimon	in a world of goo kind of way	10:57
shauno	I really wish they'd tell us before they turned the water off. Letting me fill the kettle first seems like a common decency :/	11:16
oimon	toiiet cistern? :P	11:17
shauno	this thought has already occured ;)	11:17
oimon	probably as clean as the water tank	11:17
oimon	actualyl there may be pigeons and rats in the water tank	11:18
shauno	in theory, yeah. but with an ick value that'll leave it until I'm desperate	11:18
oimon	scrape ice from the freezer...	11:18
AlanBell	kitchen taps are from the rising main, not the water tank	11:19
AlanBell	so you don't drink too much dead pigeon	11:19
oimon	how about "kitchenette"?	11:19
Laney	https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/261495_10150252580572473_511097472_7723229_2758211_n.jpg	11:19
shauno	you shower in pigeon :)	11:19
* oimon doesn't have a water tank, but the office does		11:20
oimon	combi boiler ftw	11:20
shauno	I dunno if we have a tank, actually	11:20
shauno	given that the loft is a bedroom, I can't think where they'd hide it	11:20
oimon	in the remaining loft space?	11:22
shauno	I'm not sure there is any	11:22
shauno	in other news, a job I applied for sent me to a questionaire on surveymonkey that had all the usual interview questions. never seen that before. rather awkward.	11:24
oimon	why awkward?	11:24
shauno	it's odd not being able to get a feel for what they're actually looking for	11:25
oimon	is it like a pre-interview filtering?	11:26
shauno	I hope so	11:26
=== Monster_Killer is now known as MonsterKiller
fvlinux	Hi for all	11:41
fvlinux	I was here in the last days because I'm without job...	11:42
fvlinux	If somebody have in your company or other company a lot of computers for refurbish	11:42
fvlinux	I willing to refurbish some computers for have something to do	11:43
fvlinux	if you can help me, please, send me an email vfontanella at gmail dot com	11:45
fvlinux	thank's	11:46
dwatkins	fvlinux: where are you located?	11:51
fvlinux	dwatkins: London	11:55
AlanBell	maybe talk to fossbox fvlinux	11:56
dwatkins	I know of a company in Doncaster that does computer refurbishment, there are lots of them around.	11:57
dwatkins	Most municipal tips probably employ a firm to collect discarded computers for recycling, since there's a fair amount of stuff that can often be re-used in them. I suggest speaking to your local council about it, or look up such firms in the local yellow pages.	11:57
fvlinux	dwatkins:I was looking for these companys...but no answer	11:58
fvlinux	may they have fear I start a bussiness :)	11:59
dwatkins	perhaps, yes	11:59
dwatkins	the firm I visited in Doncaster had about 6 employees, and some of the guys there were really good at repairing PCs, whereas some of them didn't have a clue.	11:59
DJones	fvlinux: It would probably be a good idea to send an email to the ubuntu-uk mailing list as well, there was some discussion abouut that type of thing a month or so back (I think)	12:00
fvlinux	dwatkins: do you have the name of this company?	12:00
fvlinux	Djones: I sent an amail days a go for ubunu-uk mail list	12:01
dwatkins	fvlinux: somewhere, yes	12:01
fvlinux	but I don't know if moderators have sent my email for /dev/null	12:02
popey	<- moderator	12:03
fvlinux	popey: do you are moderator of the list? :)	12:03
popey	i see no mail waiting	12:03
popey	yes	12:03
popey	one of them	12:03
fvlinux	humm	12:04
fvlinux	I don't have recive nothing since that	12:04
fvlinux	let me see is the Rigth list...	12:04
popey	do you use gmail?	12:05
fvlinux	yes	12:06
popey	you only see your own mail to lists if somoene replies to it	12:06
popey	thats normal for gmail	12:06
fvlinux	popey: well...	12:06
fvlinux	popey: I'll send again	12:06
popey	hang on	12:06
popey	what address did you send it from?	12:06
fvlinux	vfontanella at gmail dot com	12:07
popey	i see no mail from you	12:07
popey	and you dont appear to have subscribed to the list	12:07
matti	popey: LOL @ http://gscreenlaptop.3dcartstores.com/ ;d	12:08
popey	mad isn it?	12:08
matti	Do they fold somehow?	12:08
matti	;d	12:08
dwatkins	wow, is that real?	12:08
matti	dwatkins: So it seems ;d	12:09
popey	one screen goes behind the other	12:09
DJones	http://gizmodo.com/5346996/gscreens-dual+screen-spacebook-coming-soonish	12:09
dwatkins	I'm still waiting to hear about te Noteslate, which is a nifty idea - kinda like a Kindle you can write on.	12:10
dwatkins	They made the marketing mistake of promising stuff on facebook and now people are going off in a huff because they are taking longer than they said they would.	12:11
* popey promises cookies on facebook		12:11
dwatkins	Hooray! We're all going to have cookies!	12:11
popey	ruh roh	12:12
dogmatic69	\o/ cookies	12:12
gord	cookies?	12:12
dwatkins	I have no cookies yet, I am enraged!	12:13
dwatkins	I shall demonstrate this by posting lots of angry messages on popey's facebook page and point out where I can get alternative cookies from, and that I'm off to buy them instead.	12:14
dwatkins	They posted recently on the Noteslate facebook page saying they're still solving problems. It remains to be seen if they actually will have a marketable product.	12:19
dogmatic69	i dont see the point of that	12:21
dogmatic69	can just download a drawing app for my ipad	12:22
AlanBell	but that isn't e-ink display	12:23
dogmatic69	but i can switch to a game when im done and get my mails too	12:24
dogmatic69	not goign to carry 2x just to draw on.	12:24
AlanBell	that would not be a benefit for some use-cases	12:24
BigRedS	I'd like that for appending to things on a kindle	12:25
BigRedS	rather than as a genuine dawing thing	12:25
BigRedS	appending to? annotating	12:25
dogmatic69	if you dont have a ipad/tablet yet, and will never get one, and you want to draw on something that is not paper... maybe	12:25
dogmatic69	small market, yes	12:25
BigRedS	well, I quite like my kindle for reading from, but none of the advantages apply to a tablet	12:26
BigRedS	but it's horrific to type on, so I don't. It'd be nice to write in the margins exactly as I do a real book	12:26
BigRedS	well, almost exactly	12:26
AlanBell	dogmatic69: exactly	12:27
* dogmatic69 likes 16mil colors and hd res		12:27
AlanBell	different pricepoint too	12:29
* BigRedS likes easy to read text and long battery life		12:29
dogmatic69	10h on my ipad	12:30
AlanBell	it is an etchasketch, they still sell	12:30
dogmatic69	mostly use it for reading	12:30
BigRedS	a few weeks on my kindle	12:33
dwatkins	I would find an e-tablet really handy if I could use it to take down notes whilst on the phone then e-mail myself a copy of the display.	12:34
dwatkins	I don't have an ipad, and paper is easy to lose etc.	12:34
popey	there are kindle like devices you can write on	12:35
popey	the iliad irex was one	12:36
fvlinux	popey: Only for note, I have to apologize, I sent an email to ubuntu ony no -uk.	12:40
fvlinux	popey: but I sent minutes a go an email to the list.	12:40
fvlinux	popey: Thank's for your help. ;)	12:41
BigRedS	q	14:03
DJones	y?	14:03
BigRedS	odd. that was aimed at vim and I both missed vim and the colon	14:03
bigcalm	Pondering Harry Potter sometime soon. Not sure if I want to bother with the 3d bit though. Thoughts?	14:12
JGJones	"Harry Potter is about confronting fears, finding inner strength and doing what is right in the face of adversity. Twilight is about how important it is to have a boyfriend." -- Stephen King	14:13
JGJones	just saw this quote	14:13
BigRedS	yeah, I enjoyed that	14:15
bigcalm	:)	14:18
bigcalm	I don't have a boyfriend, on noes	14:18
=== YDdraigGoch is now known as WelshDragon
MooDoo	made me smile	14:20
MooDoo	bigcalm, you can get one, they are quite cheap from tesco :)	14:20
bigcalm	Heh	14:20
davmor2	bigcalm: I'm thinking I could kill whooper meal right now if that helps?	14:20
AlanBell	bigcalm: ask Pendulum	14:21
* bigcalm tickles davmor2		14:21
bigcalm	Pendulum: poke	14:21
davmor2	bigcalm: No to 3d until it is actual holograms on a table it's only 2 1/2 d at best and you look a muppet in the glasses :D hope that helps	14:23
* MooDoo can't see 3d :(		14:23
davmor2	MooDoo: you could if it was holograms on a table :)	14:23
gord	davmor2, what you really want, is a play	14:24
gord	very 3d	14:24
davmor2	gord: yeah but the special effects suck, unless it's a magic show	14:24
MartijnVdS	You want a holodeck?	14:25
AlanBell	bigcalm: Pendulum was saying the 3d glasses are like Harry's glasses	14:25
davmor2	MartijnVdS: hell yeah	14:25
gord	i'm one of the few people that actually like 3d :) glasses are a giant pain though i agree, 3ds does things right	14:25
davmor2	gord: agreed the 3ds is way better than the 3d on tellys too	14:26
oimon	never seen a 3D film	14:26
WelshDragon	Anybody compiled breakpad before? It's failing to link for me: "undefined reference to `dlclose'"	14:26
gord	i don't get people who rage about 3d at all, i can understand not wanting glasses and not wanting to pay more for it, but some people seem to be vindictive against 3d, just the every idea is offensive to them somehow	14:27
gord	personally i think objects looking solid in my media rather than like paintings is a good thing	14:27
oimon	gord: probably because there is a link between 3D movies and crap story	14:27
oimon	and sequels in general tbh	14:27
gord	nope thats not it, they go see the movies in 2d instead	14:28
directhex	correlation does not imply causation	14:29
MartijnVdS	as xkcd proves today :)	14:31
JGJones	3D give me an headache and eyesores - because I watched some "3D" films with subtitles (cinemas now do subtitled films yah) and...urgh...it's not pleasant reading subtitles on a 3D screen.	14:34
directhex	JGJones, i don't see how it would be possible. you can't focus on the peripheries with 3d movies	14:35
JGJones	directhex, the subtitles obviously are along the bottom of the movie - but with the 3d getting in the way etc, it somehow make reading subtitles a pain.	14:35
davmor2	gord: I think it sucks cause it isn't 3d and is a blatant lie to call it such can you see the action from the side or behind? if the answer is no then it isn't 3d it's blurry 2d with shadowing enhancements and optical illusion.	14:36
JGJones	And it's usually white.	14:36
JGJones	Get a bright scene in the movie?	14:36
davmor2	stereographic telly would be better :)	14:36
JGJones	Good luck reading that...	14:36
JGJones	but I'm not complaining...at least I GET subtitles in a cinema which is something.	14:36
AlanBell	hmm, youtube has a 15 minute video limit	14:37
AlanBell	what do I do with a 32 minute video?	14:37
JGJones	I complain more about the daft and silly times that cinemas put on subtitles (one cinema stopped showing subtitles completely because they said no deafies ever turn up to watch it)	14:37
gord	its not really an optical illusion, if its blurry then it was done wrong	14:37
JGJones	Not surprisingly because that cinema was showing subtitled films on a monday morning only.	14:37
davmor2	gord: no it just means you're sat off center	14:38
JGJones	deafies do work, we'll have to take a day off to watch it and who like going to cinemas in the morning? :)	14:38
JGJones	but apart from that...it's great to watch films in a cinema	14:38
JGJones	gord - I'm sure I read that they do purposely make some part of the screen a bit blurry so that the focus is on what they want you to focus on or something like that	14:39
gord	davmor2, sitting off centre wouldn't make it blurry	14:39
gord	JGJones, anyone who does that is a terrible cinematographer	14:39
JGJones	gord - plenty of them around.	14:39
JGJones	gord it's called Hollywoord.	14:39
JGJones	\s\Hollywoord\Hollywood	14:40
gord	JGJones, yeah but they screw up 2d movies too ;) its not specific to 3d	14:40
davmor2	gord: oh it did when I sat straight on it was perfect moved to the side and it was no longer pin sharp	14:41
gord	davmor2, sounds like a crap projector	14:41
davmor2	gord: Although I don't like it and mock it to hell, I always tell people to try out the 3d tellys in stores to see how they get on with it	14:41
davmor2	gord: sorry I was talking tv not cinema sorry	14:42
gord	oh well 3d tv's are notorious for being crap - frankly its tricky to get one that works well	14:42
awilkins	JGJones, You could do subtitles that only the deaf people could see with 3D tech	14:43
awilkins	JGJones, Only it would have to be a 2D showing	14:43
awilkins	You just polarize the subtitles and provide polarized glasses that block them for all the hearing people	14:43
davmor2	gord: I don't go to the cinema every since they found it compulsory to deafen the audience :D	14:44
awilkins	Hell, yes, what's that about? The guy who adjusts the volume goes "Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk, this one goes up to 'leven, Cleetus!"	14:44
oimon	MartijnVdS: i thought today's xkcd was about combining 2 axes :P	14:46
awilkins	What, like the Darth Maul model of axe? ;-)	14:46
oimon	ah, one of my favourite bad lines from a film "only sith deal in absolutes"	14:47
MartijnVdS	sounds like a dwarf in my D&D party :P	14:47
gord	i have a projectionist friend in norway, big film buff, very perfectionist when it comes to providing a good experience. he came over to the uk to watch some movies that came out early here and for a holiday last year. he didn't enjoy how crap most uk cinema's were ;)	14:49
MartijnVdS	gord: it's not much better over here	14:49
oimon	my issue is the sticky carpet	14:49
MartijnVdS	except maybe in "artsy" cinemas with 3-4 seats	14:49
MartijnVdS	ok 30-40 but you get the idea	14:50
* awilkins wonders if it would work better if the projectionist wasn't imprisoned in the booth but could join the audience and tweak things via an app on his phone		14:50
MartijnVdS	awilkins: they don't get paid enough, I think	14:51
MartijnVdS	just a one-week crash course as well, instead of a good training	14:51
gord	the technology is changing which is making it harder to provide a good experience, its so computer controlled and locked down these days	14:51
MartijnVdS	and don't forget that more people are deaf from ipods	14:52
awilkins	Ah yes, the whole "if you don't get an auth code from this internet site before changing 3D filters, we'll brick your projector" gubbins	14:52
MartijnVdS	and likely to complain that "you should turn up the sound!"	14:52
awilkins	It staggers me the number of people I hear irrevocably screwing up their hearing.	14:52
oimon	really?	14:53
awilkins	Well, OK. MAybe I'm not surprised. I am aghast.	14:53
oimon	from loud ipods?	14:53
oimon	how loud can you actually listen to UUPC without it getting uncomfortable? ;)	14:54
awilkins	If your phones sound loud to me on a train, or your car stereo sounds loud to me with your windows closed, you're doing soma damage	14:54
oimon	agree	14:54
awilkins	I have some in-ear ones that are virtually inaudible even when they're not in your ears	14:55
oimon	i don't understand - when i take off my earbuds i can't hear them from 1 foot away, so why can i hear some guys music (every word and chord) from 12 feet away	14:55
awilkins	Much more polite, and don't damage your hearing because they block out exterior noise so you don't turn them up	14:55
oimon	i think the default ipod earbuds are made inside out	14:55
awilkins	The worst of it is, when we're old, everyone will shout at us because they think we went deaf in our 30s	14:56
oimon	i do think i have tinitus but i think it's unlreated	14:57
popey	Ooo!	15:06
JGJones	oimon, I've got tinitus - pain in arse...so play lots of music, helps a lot.	15:07
JGJones	awilkins, interesting idea actually. in UK - we get subtitles on screen. In USA, a bit different, one method is that they get a dedicated screen that they place in a cup holder and adjust it so that it's in front of a cinema screen	15:08
oimon	gets worse when i'm tired,	15:08
JGJones	and you read subtitles on that screen and view the film thru the screen	15:08
JGJones	however you must sit in a very specific spot, and not move - it's not very much liked	15:08
JGJones	Some cinema's in USA are now experimenting with putting subtitles via an app on a iPad - worst idea ever...I do not want to hold a iPad and read subtitles on that and then look at screen.	15:09
awilkins	JGJones, You really need hud-glasses	15:09
awilkins	JGJones, It can only be a matter of time until such things are practical	15:10
gord	hud glasses with speech recognition software, you could subtitle everything :)	15:10
awilkins	"phenomenoscopes" ala Neal Stephenson / Diamond Age	15:10
JGJones	http://www.yourlocalcinema.com/ - currently for UK - I use this page for looking up when and where subtitled films are in the local area	15:11
awilkins	Since you're not going to get the hearing people to all wear glasses, next stupid idea... maybe you could project subtitles in light and it's anti-light simultaneously... polarize them a little differently and issue polarizing glasses to people to filter out the anti-light component (I have no idea if that's even technically possible, surely minute variations in the screen would totally screw up the wavefronts)	15:13
awilkins	Maybe a bit like the way you can see rainbow patterns in laminated glass and plastic while wearing polarized sunglasses	15:14
JGJones	awilkins, that's the system I mentioned that's used in USA - https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Rear_Window_Captioning_System	15:17
awilkins	JGJones, Pretty klunky but functional	15:18
JGJones	it's not very much liked though - ie sometime your head might get in way blocking the subtitles etc, and sometime you must sit "in the correct area" and not move etc	15:18
awilkins	JGJones, I imagined it being on the ceiling	15:18
JGJones	The subtitles that I watch - are "burnt" into the screen - but the downside is that they are only shown at specific time and dates (ie using yourlocalcinema.com to find out when and where) as cinemas claim hearing folks hate them	15:19
awilkins	might work better on the ceiling	15:19
JGJones	I'm sure a lot do hate it, but then whenever I go to watch a popular film that's subtitled, there's plenty of hearing folks in the room too and they don't seem too bothered to me.	15:20
JGJones	oh well...one day, they'll come up with a perfect solution meaning I can go and watch any film at any time with subtitles that isn't in the way for others :)	15:21
JGJones	Hmm interesting...	15:21
JGJones	Real time text in jabber	15:21
JGJones	http://www.marky.com/realjabber/	15:21
awilkins	I saw mention of this, thought it might be a subset of the Wave stuff	15:22
awilkins	Not sure I like realtime text chat though	15:23
awilkins	Even the "Someone is typing" notifiers have their downsides	15:23
JGJones	it was developed by a deafie - as for text relays, realtime is very useful.	15:24
JGJones	currently it's a bit like this - IRC - when I type my reply, the other person have to wait until I finish my sentence and send it before the text relay operator can voice it over	15:25
awilkins	I'm more concerned with people seeing my typos and that I don't accidentally type "what an ****hole" in the wrong window without the ability to retract it	15:25
awilkins	But I do see the plus side	15:25
awilkins	I quite liked Wave, which had this feature from the outset	15:26
awilkins	Shame it didn't catch on, really	15:26
MartijnVdS	whoa.. 80% of the Netherlands is without FM radio coverage atm	15:26
MartijnVdS	One tower had a fire and collapsed, another was turned off because of fear of short-circuit of some kind	15:26
awilkins	The whole Netherlands is covered by three FM radio towers????	15:27
awilkins	THat's what you get for being flat.	15:27
MartijnVdS	awilkins: well, 20-ish, but 5 big ones	15:27
MartijnVdS	http://radio-tv-nederland.nl/map/Kaart%20met%20alle%20publieke%20nationale%20FM%20zenders%20in%20Nederland.pdf :)	15:28
MartijnVdS	awilkins: but the big towers feed the (repeating) smaller ones	15:28
=== jpds_ is now known as jpds
zleap	where are the display settings in ubuntu	15:41
bigcalm	Anybody fancy givine me an answer to this? http://cuth.eu/aircon	15:41
popey	bigcalm: I paid 400 or so for mine	15:42
popey	at a non-brand garage	15:42
popey	zleap: what do you mean?	15:42
popey	zleap: if you're on 11.04 then press the button in the top left and type "monitor"	15:42
bigcalm	popey: did you go for branded parts?	15:42
popey	no idea :D	15:42
popey	probably not	15:42
zleap	hmm	15:42
bigcalm	Ah	15:42
bigcalm	I have to ask myself; do I want to save £110 or £205?	15:43
bigcalm	popey: and thank you for not ansering "yes" to my original question, you're slipping :P	15:44
bigcalm	answering	15:44
zleap	i think i have fixed it now	15:44
zleap	i was looking for something called display, but its called monitors instead	15:45
zleap	i am trying to work out if my monitor is faulty, or if there is a problem with my graphics card, so to test i want to see if I can display inmage from netbook on to the monitor	15:45
suprengr	I recognize some names in list as those who extol Minecraft... is there a safe/legal/honest way for those curious [me ;)] to try it & see if pooter can cope ok?	15:50
suprengr	..downladed the .jar file but thought I'd check 1st.	15:50
zleap	in 10.04 how to i switch from using a netbook display to using a external monitor (connected via vga port\|) is there a key combination somewhere ?	15:51
suprengr	zleap, most netbooks [& laptops] have a blue or green key matching functions on top of 'f' keys... one looks like a monitor moving.	15:52
suprengr	...& throws in sequence to internal, both or external	15:53
* suprengr sneaks off to check netbook for better description		15:54
suprengr	in my case is ble letters 'Fn' [function'?] and key is f5 showing black screen shaped box with a vertical line next to it then pointing to white shaped screen box	15:57
suprengr	...&... so is the works laptop [coincidence]	15:57
suprengr	*blue	15:58
JGJones	Hmm interesting...http://androidflip.com/linux-android-asus-eee-pad-transformer-tf101-coming/	15:59
JGJones	Ubuntu on a Asus Transformer?	15:59
oimon	my next portable device will look like that	16:00
oimon	whether the EPD has been replaced ny then i dunno, but seems great	16:00
popey	jeez	16:02
popey	that article couldn't get any less readable if it was printed upside down	16:02
oimon	i had to check if chrome was transalting it from chinese	16:03
MartijnVdS	http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14168281	16:56
shauno	whoops	16:58
MartijnVdS	shauno: Cable and satellite aren't affected, and neither are t'interwebs..so I can still listen to my favourite radio program :)	16:58
shauno	heh. no real loss. FM's dead anyway	16:59
MartijnVdS	shauno: over here it's not	17:00
MartijnVdS	shauno: DAB never materialized here	17:00
shauno	not sure there's much in the way of DAB here either (other than what leaks from the UK)	17:00
shauno	they just killed FM by filling it with dross	17:00
MartijnVdS	Over here only the publicly-funded channels are good	17:01
shauno	I mostly just listen to the world service on the intertubes	17:02
MartijnVdS	shauno: vlc http://livestreams.omroep.nl/npo/3fm_vsr-bb	17:03
MartijnVdS	shauno: for much Dutch silliness :)	17:03
shauno	hm. can't figure out how to open it. vlc has a UI only a mother could love	17:05
MartijnVdS	shauno: hence the command line	17:05
MartijnVdS	hm	17:08
shauno	you know, dutch almost looks intelligible when written down	17:09
MartijnVdS	shauno: so is English for me :)	17:09
shauno	on the radio, not so much :)	17:09
bigcalm	Just deleted my 4sq account. Feels good to reduce redundant services. Facebook is next if I enough of my friends make it onto Google+	17:10
MartijnVdS	shauno: Some British artist once said "Your English is very good." from stage... I replied: "You too!" -- looks of confusion all around :)	17:11
shauno	wow. how many times do you have to ^C to get vlc to die :/	17:16
MartijnVdS	5-6	17:16
shauno	I wonder why geoip fails on a large number of addresses I feed	17:17
StevenR	hrrm. display corruption on resume from hibernate again :(	17:31
* StevenR wonders how to submit a bug report about it (or rather, how to gather useful X11 info)		17:31
MartijnVdS	StevenR: ubuntu-bug will attach the Xorg log and dmesg to the bug automatically	17:32
StevenR	oh. cool.	17:32
MartijnVdS	StevenR: ubuntu-bug display	17:32
freenodiz	hi	17:35
jacobw	hi	17:35
freenodiz	lil question ...i have wine installed.I have some windozee lil apps..example "aleo flash banner creator",that i want it to work with wine...I've been into wine website,and i saw posts about big apps,such as adobe..but no info about running this small lil apps...another app came to my mind "faststone photo resizer"..	17:38
MartijnVdS	freenodiz: you can just try them	17:38
MartijnVdS	freenodiz: or find alternative applications that do what you want	17:38
StevenR	hrrm. how do I turn off compiz stuff?	17:39
MartijnVdS	StevenR: on the login screen select 2d mode/classic mod	17:39
freenodiz	MartijnVdS,my i pm you?	17:39
freenodiz	may*	17:39
MartijnVdS	freenodiz: better to keep things on-channel I think	17:39
StevenR	MartijnVdS: I'm in classic mode, but the desktop effects are still turned on :S	17:39
freenodiz	ok	17:39
jacobw	use alternative apps	17:39
jacobw	imagemagick is awesome	17:40
MartijnVdS	Lots of programs capable of image resizing	17:40
freenodiz	i can't find anything to replace this http://www.aleosoft.com/ nothing good as this one..if i could put such app to work...	17:41
freenodiz	i guess i will try it	17:41
jacobw	what does it do?	17:42
freenodiz	MartijnVdS,you think apps such as this ones,based in flash..would be more likely to have issues?	17:42
freenodiz	jacobw,it does flash banners on the fly	17:43
jacobw	its impossible to say	17:43
jacobw	what do you want to make flash banners for?	17:43
freenodiz	im sry,this is the correct link	17:43
freenodiz	http://www.aleosoft.com/flash-intro-banner-maker/index.html	17:43
freenodiz	also,i have this app,wich relies on microsoft IIS server...i gues i can install IIS on wine...can i?	17:45
jacobw	haha	17:45
bigcalm	Eww	17:47
freenodiz	i hate the microsof	17:47
freenodiz	i really want to get rid of this apps	17:47
freenodiz	windows vista is trashing up my brand new hitachi hdd...grrr lol	17:50
jacobw	its best to use standardised technologies so you can work with open source software	17:50
jacobw	i.e. flash sucks	17:50
freenodiz	o.O	17:50
freenodiz	java guy?	17:51
freenodiz	ahhh,or cause it's just from our last stand ADOBE?	17:51
MartijnVdS	freenodiz: it's because Adobe software is bloated, full of security holes, and alternatives (HTML5) are becoming more viable by the day	17:52
jacobw	its a closed format that you can only create with a proprietrary software suite	17:52
MartijnVdS	and that	17:53
freenodiz	well,whatever...I will replace the apps..run ubuntu as main os,and a partition with mac os,to run my adobe apps	17:53
MartijnVdS	Your loss ;)	17:53
freenodiz	i want to learn a bit of sys admin.Is that recommended i install ubuntu server edition,to practise,instead of the normal one?any particular care?	17:55
jacobw	you can install whatever you like on either edition	17:58
freenodiz	And,regarding adobe,i think that if you can't win,the best is join... :D	17:58
ali1234	lol, please tell me what the viable open alternative to after effects is	17:58
jacobw	so you can install -desktop and add whatever packages you want to learn about	17:59
freenodiz	ahh,ok ,ty,so i will go server	17:59
freenodiz	thats cool	17:59
freenodiz	i really want to learn how to set up the server myself,and stop giving money for this virtuozzo hosts with centos installed..parasites	18:00
ali1234	virtua-whizzo sucks	18:00
freenodiz	ali1234,good point,how can u replace such apps?fire works?any matches?there's none...	18:01
ali1234	lol fireworks is horrible	18:01
freenodiz	yeap,i just realize that now...i'm working with drupal app also,and i just fond drush	18:02
ali1234	my only experience of it is "that program that steals all the file associations and takes AGES to load"	18:02
freenodiz	whattttttttttttttttttttttttt	18:02
ali1234	i don't see the point of fireworks	18:02
freenodiz	fireworks is horrible,i can see you are not a designer lol	18:02
ali1234	it's just a half assed image editor	18:02
freenodiz	no way	18:02
freenodiz	dont say that	18:02
ali1234	why would you use fireworks, when you can use photoshop instead?	18:02
freenodiz	errrr	18:02
freenodiz	i want go trough that discussion,just google it	18:03
freenodiz	mi won't*	18:03
freenodiz	lol	18:03
freenodiz	i won't*	18:03
freenodiz	fireworks is the right arm of a web designer	18:03
ali1234	they only keep it around to keep the old macromedia customers happy	18:03
ali1234	they should never have bought any of that stuff	18:04
freenodiz	not true	18:04
freenodiz	not true again	18:04
ali1234	adobe has been going downhill since they bought it	18:04
ali1234	another company ruined by steven elop	18:04
freenodiz	fireworks runs custom scripts,for especific webdesigner needs	18:05
freenodiz	like the ubuntu command line :)	18:05
freenodiz	I would be so proud if the open source community could produce a package such as adobe,like a mirror	18:06
freenodiz	a copy :P	18:07
freenodiz	lets hack that code! yayyy	18:07
freenodiz	thanks for tips guys,mean time i will be using the adobe in a partition,thanks all tips	18:12
freenodiz	MartijnVdS ++	18:12
freenodiz	jacobw ++	18:12
jacobw	ali1234: brain still working?	18:16
=== BitcoinSpeculatr is now known as OmNomDeBonBon
Azelphur	does anyone know if sky broadband messes with torrents?	18:38
popey	GOOD EVENING ROOM!	18:42
MartijnVdS	HOWDY POPEYMAN	18:42
Azelphur	AAA!	18:42
* Azelphur runs		18:42
MartijnVdS	Azelphur: come to the Netherlands, ISPs aren't allowed to mess with traffic anymore here :)	18:42
MartijnVdS	Azelphur: by law	18:42
Azelphur	MartijnVdS: that makes me more tempted to move to the netherlands than it really should do :p	18:42
popey	Nice!!	18:43
MartijnVdS	Azelphur: Everyone speaks English, and Dutch really isn't that hard to learn anyway (I know several people who have learned it)	18:43
popey	herdy gerdy	18:44
MartijnVdS	popey: yes, but no.	18:44
popey	:D	18:44
MartijnVdS	popey: try "Goeiemorgen allemaal!"	18:45
czajkowski	▞▀▖ ▌ ▞▀▖ ▌ ▌ ▞▀▖	18:53
czajkowski	▙▄▌ ▌ ▌ ▌ ▙▄▌ ▙▄▌	18:53
czajkowski	▌ ▌ ▌ ▌ ▌ ▌ ▌ ▌ ▌	18:53
czajkowski	▘ ▘ ▀▀▘ ▝▀ ▘ ▘ ▘ ▘	18:53
* MartijnVdS waves in czajkowski's direction		18:53
jpds	MartijnVdS: But it's not morning.	18:54
MartijnVdS	jpds: "Goeienavond allemaal!"	18:55
jpds	Gut, ganz gut...	18:55
MartijnVdS	jpds: But we say "mogge" all day long	18:55
MartijnVdS	jpds: (short for "goeiemorgen")	18:55
jpds	MartijnVdS: Probably like moin in Germany.	18:55
MartijnVdS	jpds: likely, yes	18:55
MartijnVdS	heh http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=Liverpool&daddr=Birkenhead&hl=en&dirflg=w	19:12
StevenR	MartijnVdS: oops.	19:13
MartijnVdS	StevenR: slightly :)	19:13
MartijnVdS	StevenR: I love how it says "12 hours. Or take the bus (30 minute)"	19:16
MartijnVdS	29	19:16
StevenR	hehe	19:16
bigcalm_lappy486	popey: which brand of ssd have you gone for?	19:17
dogmatic69	o/	19:17
MartijnVdS	\o	19:17
dogmatic69	does anyone know why ubuntu forums take me to login page from google lately?	19:17
MartijnVdS	dogmatic69: no idea, openid?	19:18
dogmatic69	MartijnVdS: never been registered or needed to before...	19:19
dogmatic69	also, you know when google shows a site + 5 form links as one result	19:19
MartijnVdS	no idea	19:19
MartijnVdS	I don't see a google login page when I go to the forums	19:20
dogmatic69	the 5 links i can always use, just not the main one. although cache works	19:20
dogmatic69	no.	19:20
dogmatic69	http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=404441	19:20
dogmatic69	it says log in	19:20
dogmatic69	but.. i can see it with google cache	19:20
DJones	I just get vbullitin login page with that link	19:21
dogmatic69	ye	19:21
MartijnVdS	same	19:21
dogmatic69	exactly	19:21
dogmatic69	why	19:21
MartijnVdS	maybe it used to be public, but now it's private/locked?	19:21
dogmatic69	http://tinyurl.com/6eeebwe	19:22
dogmatic69	the top result... no matter what i search. the 'main' one is locked and the sub ones work	19:22
dogmatic69	for the ubuntu forums only	19:22
popey	bigcalm_lappy486: I have various ones	19:23
popey	yes dogmatic69 I know why	19:23
bigcalm_lappy486	Ah, ok. Any you would recommend then? :)	19:23
dogmatic69	popey: do tell :)	19:23
popey	they have made old archived stuff non-accessible	19:23
popey	except by google	19:23
dogmatic69	ah	19:23
dogmatic69	lame	19:23
popey	personally I'd wipe it all	19:23
dogmatic69	ye	19:23
dogmatic69	either its there or not	19:24
popey	the old stuff is mostly crap	19:24
dogmatic69	very stupid to have the 'main' result for "ubuntu + xyz" locked	19:24
popey	meh	19:24
dogmatic69	cant you pull some strings :P	19:24
bigcalm_lappy486	popey: I assume that one requires an additional kit to fit an ssd into a desktop machine?	19:25
popey	yes	19:25
popey	most come with them	19:25
dogmatic69	bigcalm_lappy486: a resize thing	19:25
popey	all of mine did	19:25
bigcalm_lappy486	Ah, cool	19:25
popey	i can benchmark all 3 if you want	19:25
MartijnVdS	popey: so which ones do you have? (SSDs)	19:25
* dogmatic69 wants a SSD		19:26
bigcalm_lappy486	I'm looking at http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/search/ref=sr_nr_n_0?rh=k%3Assd%2Cn%3A340831031%2Cn%3A%21340832031%2Cn%3A428655031%2Cn%3A430505031&bbn=428655031&keywords=ssd&ie=UTF8&qid=1310757620&rnid=428655031#/ref=sr_nr_p_72_0?rh=k%3Assd%2Cn%3A340831031%2Cn%3A%21340832031%2Cn%3A428655031%2Cn%3A430505031%2Cp_36%3A428446031%2Cp_72%3A419153031&bbn=430505031&keywords=ssd&ie=UTF8&qid=1310757629&rnid=419152031 and tryi	19:26
bigcalm_lappy486	ng to comprimise between speed/size/cost	19:26
popey	woah	19:26
popey	Corsair CSSD-F12	19:26
bigcalm_lappy486	Sorry :)	19:26
MartijnVdS	Long URL is long	19:26
popey	CSSD-F115GB2-A	19:26
popey	INTEL SSDSA2M120	19:27
popey	^^^ those	19:27
dogmatic69	i was thinking 1VTX30G 30 GB Vertex Series	19:27
bigcalm_lappy486	This is to go in my windows machine for work. So I won't be on steam until it lets you install to other drives	19:27
popey	i have steam on mine	19:28
popey	nothing else tho ☺	19:28
bigcalm_lappy486	Heh	19:28
bigcalm_lappy486	Not even minecraft?	19:28
popey	what do you need for work?	19:28
popey	a text editor surely :D	19:28
popey	yeah, mc too	19:28
bigcalm_lappy486	Haha	19:28
bigcalm_lappy486	:P	19:28
bigcalm_lappy486	MS Office, Adobe CS3, PhpEd, most web browsers, sqlyog,	19:29
bigcalm_lappy486	Reeeeeeeeealy tempting to dual boot the workstation if I do put a new drive in it	19:30
bigcalm_lappy486	It's my external hardware that stops me from using anything other than Windows	19:30
popey	"hardware"	19:31
bigcalm_lappy486	USB dvi graphics card to run a 3rd screen and a skype adaptor box that connects to my desk phone	19:32
popey	does the usb gfx card not work in ubuntu>?	19:33
bigcalm_lappy486	It's not reported to do so. TBH, never tried :)	19:34
* bigcalm_lappy486 takes the lappy to it		19:35
bigcalm_lappy486	Well, it doesn't _just work_	19:36
bigcalm_lappy486	I shall research	19:36
popey	what does lsusb say it is?	19:37
bigcalm_lappy486	It's a conv-usb2dvi	19:37
bigcalm_lappy486	Erm	19:37
popey	usb id ?	19:38
bigcalm_lappy486	Bus 002 Device 005: ID 17e9:0138 Newnham Research	19:38
MartijnVdS	bigcalm_lappy486: check the "udlfb" device driver	19:40
MartijnVdS	and xserver-xorg-video-displaylink	19:40
bigcalm_lappy486	MartijnVdS: ta for the info	19:43
bigcalm_lappy486	I shall play with it over the weekend	19:43
bigcalm_lappy486	Now, it's time to watch In the Line of Fire	19:43
shauno	interesting. get_iplayer's stopped working for me :(	19:48
MartijnVdS	let me chec	19:49
MartijnVdS	k	19:49
MartijnVdS	"Connecting..."	19:50
MartijnVdS	ERROR: rtmp server sent error	19:50
shauno	that's the one	19:50
shauno	oh, it's working now. musta caught auntie with her bloomers down	20:28
shauno	(for a while there, I was terrified they'd pegged me for a foreigner)	20:30
liam	i need a lil help please	20:34
StevenR	liam: don't ask to ask, just ask :)	20:38
liam	i am having issues with ubuntu 11.04 and the laptop an it doesnt spin long enough letting the system get too hot	20:39
liam	around 80 85 degrees	20:42
Guest87896	y	20:51
brobostigon	?	20:51
Guest87896	hi	20:52
brobostigon	hi	20:52
Guest87896	i am just trying the channel	20:53
brobostigon	ok.	20:54
Guest87896	Well what is the classical way of using IRC... with Xchat or Xchat-Gnome? they both look sort of the same...	20:59
Azelphur	hmm, on my server (ubuntu server) grinds to a halt whenever any disk i/o goes on, ie a file copy	21:04
Azelphur	any way to fix it?	21:04
suprengr	Azelphur, http;//smack_it_with_a_hammer.com ;)	21:07
Azelphur	\o/	21:07
shauno	MartijnVdS: fixed it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmqsP6hV5lw	21:17
ubuntuuk-planet	[Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Developer Summit Sponsorship Now Open - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/07/15/ubuntu-developer-summit-sponsorship-now-open-2/	22:12
StevenR	urrgh. I really want to fix that first paragraph in the approval application (I have the technical ability, just haven't worked out how to make it right yet :) )	22:13
ali1234	AlanBell: remember how you asked everyone to test the new wiki, and everyone said "launchpad openid doesn't work", well it still doesn't work	22:37
StevenR	ali1234: works for me :)	22:40
StevenR	oh. new wiki?	22:40
StevenR	ali1234: sorry, thought you meant the approval app page (my brain is full of trying to fix some of the wording)... is there a new wiki?	22:44
ali1234	that's what i mean	22:44
ali1234	login takes several minutes	22:44
ali1234	although it does work eventually	22:45
StevenR	that's not the same as "doesn't work"	22:45
ali1234	yes it is	22:45
ali1234	unless taking 5 minutes to login is intentional	22:45
ali1234	are you doing a lot of edits?	22:47
ali1234	cos i just went through and fixed all the typos and spelling mistakes, of which there are many	22:47
StevenR	ali1234: I did a bunch last night	22:47
StevenR	ali1234: trying to re-work the paragraphing in that huge opening chunk of text. It just feels like too much text in one chunk	22:49
ali1234	the section headings make no sense	22:49
ali1234	it's like some one inserted them purely to break up the text	22:49
StevenR	ali1234: I'm not so much good at content, but I'm good at making text work (spelling, punctuation, grammar), though I wasn't looking for typos last night, too tired yesterday	22:53
shauno	heh, every time I see trcy.mi I think traverse city, but I know it's not	23:06
shauno	hm, or is it. db says cadillac, but friends in petoskey show as trcy too mumbles	23:08
Azelphur	ali1234: you about? :)	23:12
Azelphur	having an issue with my server, every time it runs a disk intensive cron job (irc stats generation, mysql backup, etc) it makes the entire server grind to a halt	23:12
Azelphur	isn't disk I/O scheduling supposed to make that not happen?	23:12
ali1234	i suppose	23:13
Azelphur	any ideas on fixing it? :D	23:13
ali1234	get more ram	23:13
Azelphur	how would that help o.o	23:13
shauno	stop using the disks :)	23:13
ali1234	well it doesn't seem to happen to me any more since i got 16gb	23:13
Azelphur	seems like a not so good solution :(	23:14
ali1234	i suspect it is something to do with the retardedly aggressive disk caching and swappiness on ubuntu	23:14
ali1234	something along the lines of:	23:14
ali1234	read file, put it in disk cache, disk cache is full, swap out some program memory, write it to disk	23:16
hamitron	I recall something making the install take ages with ext4 partitions	23:16
ali1234	this turns what should be a sequential read into a series of short read/write/read/write etc in totally different parts of the disk	23:16
ali1234	basically killing performance	23:16
Azelphur	maybe switching swap off?	23:16
ali1234	nice one	23:16
ali1234	switch swap off, or reduce swappiness value of the kernel	23:17
Azelphur	ok	23:17
Azelphur	I know about both, what you think would be best?	23:17
ali1234	or buy memory 2x the size of your /usr partition	23:17
Azelphur	can't really buy memory since it's a rented server	23:18
Azelphur	unless I feel like paying +$241352313... /mo	23:18
Azelphur	applications themselves are only using about 80-90% of the RAM	23:19
Azelphur	but that would obviously explain the push	23:19
Azelphur	ali1234: so, disable swap or lower swappiness, what's best? :P	23:21
hamitron	I'd do swapiness first	23:21
Azelphur	I know the defaults 60, so what are we changing it to, 10?	23:21
hamitron	baby steps ftw	23:22
hamitron	just see what it does	23:22
hamitron	:)	23:22
Azelphur	swappiness=0 tells the kernel to avoid swapping processes out of physical memory for as long as possible	23:22
Azelphur	owait we want 0.	23:22
popey	Azelphur: i would actually do something else, like io nice the intensive jobs	23:22
Azelphur	popey: I can see that that might be a good idea, but that said I really want the applications to stay in memory period	23:23
Azelphur	the server runs game servers, so we absolutely don't want to swap out the game servers memory	23:23
Azelphur	that's always going to result in bad.	23:23
ali1234	io nice does nothing	23:23
popey	ok	23:23
hamitron	lag just cost me 3 hearts :/	23:24
Azelphur	there we go, swappiness 0 that should fix that one :)	23:25
ikonia	Azelphur: if the games servers are in use, it won't swap them out to disk	23:29
ikonia	Azelphur: it only swaps out applications to ram if they are unused	23:30
ali1234	ha ha ha, yeah right	23:30
ali1234	where unused is defined as "hasn't executed any code for longer than 0.1 microseconds"	23:30
Azelphur	ikonia: well, they was all in use full of people using high amounts of CPU at the time :P	23:30
Azelphur	haha	23:30
hamitron	I guess another good thing may be to offload some of the scripts and things running on that server	23:30
ikonia	Azelphur: ok, so why are you messing with swap then ?	23:30
Azelphur	ikonia: because ali1234 told me to and it makes sense :P	23:30
Azelphur	feel free to make other suggestions :D	23:30
ikonia	Azelphur: how would changing swapiness help you ?	23:31
ali1234	it will stop his game servers being swapped out when something does a long sequential read of a file	23:31
Azelphur	ikonia: because if what ali1234 says is correct and it's swapping the game servers out when there's heavy disk I/O, turning swappiness to 0 should stop that	23:31
ikonia	ali1234: but if it needs to swap them out to do the read - it will crash him machine as it's out of ram	23:32
ali1234	ikonia: it does not need to swap to do the read	23:32
Azelphur	^	23:32
ikonia	ali1234: it does if there is no ram	23:32
ikonia	something has to give	23:32
ali1234	no, wrong	23:32
ali1234	that's completely idiotic	23:32
ikonia	no, correct	23:32
ali1234	it might need to swap to do the malloc	23:32
bigcalm_lappy486	popey: pondering this http://www.amazon.co.uk/OCZ-Vertex-2-5-inch-Internal-Solid/dp/B003NE5JCE/	23:32
ikonia	if you have no ram	23:32
ali1234	but malloc is not affected by swappiness	23:32
hamitron	can you force zero ram use for copying files?	23:33
hamitron	or any io	23:33
ikonia	ali1234: no, of course that's not effected by swappiness, but that's what I'm saying	23:33
ikonia	why is the games server being swapped to disk ?	23:33
ali1234	you are saying that read(2) is going to fail if swappiness is 0 and there's no free ram, but there is free swap	23:34
ali1234	which is quite obviously nonsense	23:34
ikonia	ali1234: no, that's not what I'm saying	23:34
ikonia	ali1234: I'm saying if there is no ram left, then stopping it to swap to do disk will not help	23:34
ali1234	swappiness does not disable swap	23:34
ikonia	no, it disables the application from being swapped out to disk	23:35
ali1234	it disables "hey let's swap out everything in favour of disk cache and interrupt the long sequential read with lots of extremely slow and tiny write operations in the process"	23:35
ikonia	in the example you're giving	23:35
ali1234	no, it doesn't do that either	23:35
ikonia	ah, so you're not trying to actually stop it swapping out to disk, you're trying to stop it proritising disk over it	23:36
ali1234	there is literally no way under linux to prevent an application from being swapped out except for disabling swap partitions entirely	23:36
AlanBell	hello UK	23:46
bigcalm_lappy486	Hello Docklands	23:47
ali1234	so i just got a android phone and i heard some people here have them	23:54
ali1234	how do i make it not show every single person who has ever emailed me in the contacts?	23:54
hamitron	a hammer to the screen would do it	23:55
hamitron	;)	23:55
ali1234	i dont think i'm going to get on with this	23:55
AlanBell	go to gmail and delete them in contacts there	23:56
ali1234	but i don't want to delete them from gmail	23:56
ali1234	i might want to email them at some point in the future	23:56
ali1234	i just don't ever want to telephone them	23:56
ali1234	this sucks	23:57
ali1234	google maps is slooooooow	23:58
ali1234	and no skype and no google talk support	23:58
AlanBell	in the contacts display settings show only contacts with phone numbers	23:58
ali1234	why do people buy these things?	23:58
AlanBell	there is skype	23:59

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