MooDoomorning all07:02
DJonesMorning all07:36
DJonesHi MooDoo07:42
MooDooAlanBell, how were your meetings in london?07:55
AlanBelljolly good :)07:55
AlanBellin Germany now07:55
AlanBellbut basically, yes, we are going to do what I proposed07:55
MooDooAlanBell, blimey, do you do a lot of travelling?07:55
* DJones wonders whether sabdfl has a connection problem07:56
AlanBellnot that much these days07:56
MooDooAlanBell, so what's in germany today then?07:58
AlanBellin the Bundesministerium fur Wirtschaft und Technologyie07:58
jpdsNo, that's alwys there, not just today.07:59
AlanBellindeed, it has been here for a while07:59
jpdsAlanBell: http://tinyurl.com/5wjavx808:04
jpdsAlanBell: Best Currywurst place, ever.08:04
MooDoosomeone having connection issues?08:11
DJonesNot just someone, "The One" even08:11
DJonesI did think about setting a forward to ##fixyourconnection, but probably wouldn't very politic to do that :)08:12
MooDooDJones, hee hee :)08:12
popeyMorning all08:15
jpdspopey: Morning.08:16
MooDoomorning popey how are you this morening?08:17
bigcalmGood morning peeps :)08:21
oimonHazRPG: morning, just saw your message on scrollback, thanks, i already fixed the issue using adb shell and a symbolic link :D08:22
oimonCM uses a download cache partition that's too small (and shares it with dalvik cache)08:22
oimoni must say, google plus isn't really getting a massive following amongst my acquaintances08:23
MooDoooimon, 10 million people so far08:25
AlanBellI have 139 Ubuntu people, 22 LotusGeeks08:26
AlanBellnot much else08:26
popeyMooDoo: saw your tweet about adsense08:26
oimonAlanBell: plese say lotus car and not lotus notes :D08:26
popeyYou need to get a crate load more visitors to have any hope of people clicking ads08:26
AlanBelloimon: Notes08:26
popeyand need to appeal to non-techies, who wont have adblock08:26
* oimon loads his gun08:26
DJonesI was going to suggest lotus flowers08:26
AlanBellI am a retired LotusGeek08:27
jussiis there an adblock for andorid?08:27
popeyMooDoo: take OMGUbuntu for example. They earn crazy amounts of adsense money08:27
popeybecause they get metric tonnes of hits08:27
oimonknow how much popey?08:27
popeyi do08:27
TheOpenSourcererjussi: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Adblock+for+Android08:28
popeyIt's pretty amazing what they've done with that site08:29
MooDoopopey, my site is pretty crappy at the moment to be honest, i think tha's part of the problem.....08:29
oimonthere was certainly a niche in the market08:29
MooDooand i don't blog enough.....content is king08:29
popeyi dont think thats the issue ☺08:30
popeyok, chaps I have a question for you08:30
popeyimagine you're going to an event such as "OggCamp", on a scale of 1 (not annoying) to 10 (really annoying) how annoyed would you be if there was no free wifi there?08:30
MooDoopopey, normally i wouldn't be bothered, but as it's a techy event, i would say 8/908:31
AlanBellis there cheap wifi there?08:31
oimoni'd say 5 for myself, since i have mobile internet on my phone08:31
BigRedSIt's free, not at all. There's never wifi at LPWs and nobody minds08:31
popeyAlanBell: please answer the question08:31
jussipopey: 908:31
AlanBellI would be annoyed if there was no wifi08:32
TheOpenSourcererpopey: Not that bothered - have unlimited data plan on my phone and service is "ok" at the maltings.08:32
popeyBigRedS: LPW?08:32
popeyTheOpenSourcerer: what network?08:32
BigRedSpopey: london perl workshop08:32
oimonpopey: maybe word it another way: if the wifi was X pounds per day/hour, would you pay it, or use mobile 2g/3g instead08:32
AlanBellactually, I have a phone I would tether, I wouldn't give a toss08:32
popeyplease forget pay wifi08:32
popeyI was very clear on my question08:32
popeyI'd like to keep it to that08:32
dogmatic69popey: 008:33
dogmatic69as long as there was mobile signal that is08:33
bigcalmpopey: 1. the event is partly about connecting with people there, not over g+08:33
BigRedSso 0 , in case you're doing fancy parsing of logs to get votes08:33
AlanBell1 personally, would be interesting from a video perspective if there was stacks of upload bandwidth08:33
dogmatic69bigcalm: you mean actually talk to people :S08:34
AlanBelldogmatic69: mobile signal is fine08:34
MooDooshall we just answer his question with numbers?08:34
bigcalmFor those presenting, a connection might be useful. But people should be prepaired08:34
BigRedSI think we should trunk 3G devices to get enough bandwidth to upload video08:34
MooDooi that's what he wants08:34
bigcalmpopey: i08:34
popeyso the venue doesn't have wifi coverage over all the rooms08:35
popeyI am trying to sort some kind of solution08:35
popeybut it's expensive08:35
bigcalmHave wifi in one room so that those that can't live without twitter can update08:35
BigRedSthough LPW does have hard-to-saturate 3G coverage as something of a mitigating circumstance. But it's normal there to not be dossing around on the net in talks08:35
awilkinsCould a mesh network be erected that used the existing connections as a gateway?08:36
bigcalmpopey: how good is the building's fabric at blocking 3g signals?08:36
popeyits an old building08:37
popeylisted so running cables is hard08:37
JamesTaitGood morning all!08:37
bigcalmI'm almost tempted to not bring a laptop this year08:37
bigcalmBut then, how would I play minecraft?08:37
awilkinsOld buildings tend to block RF better than newer ones (unless the newer one has been designed to do so)08:37
oimonbut there would be wifi zone somewhere? that's not bad at all08:38
bigcalmGet somebody on a unlimited data plan to tether. Does mean them staying put all day08:40
oimoni'd like to reduce my score to a 1 if there is wifi somewhere in the building08:41
bigcalmJust knowing that there is wifi, even if you don't use it?08:41
BigRedSIt's in a town, isn't it? Surely there's a cafe within reasonable distance that'll do wifi for the cost of a coffee for those who somehow need it08:42
bigcalmMacDonalds has free wifi...08:42
oimonmaybe there should be a talk about disconnecting from the internet08:42
bigcalmoimon: nicely volenteered08:42
* BigRedS imagines a demonstration of unplugging a cat5 lead and then nothing else08:43
bigcalmYes, my copy failed08:43
oimonmaybe rigged up to a heart monitor08:43
HazRPGoimon: ah, good stuff ^_^08:43
HazRPGalso, morning all08:43
oimonas we see ..the patients heart rate returns to normal after 15 minutes08:44
MooDoooimon, i did last week when i was on hols in whitby, it was refreshing to have no internet08:44
MooDoonot even a phone signal08:44
oimontwitter is better when you refresh once a day and read all the stuff08:45
oimonrather than every 10 mins08:45
oimoncos u realise so much of it is dross08:45
czajkowskimorning all08:48
bigcalmHi czajkowski08:51
bigcalmoimon: depends upon whom you follow08:51
MooDooczajkowski, aloha :p08:53
czajkowskioimon: depends on who you follow i regularly hae great discussions with people interactively with them via twitter08:54
oimontbh i tend to use twitter rather differently, mainly as an rss feed08:55
oimonAKA one-way communication/broadcast feed08:55
oimoni think i'm just not a twitter fan08:55
Davieyczajkowski: 'great' discussions? :)09:05
DJonesoimon: I use twitter in the same way, mainly as a news feed rather than two way communication09:05
czajkowskiwell myself and acruiz had a good old rant there yesterday about the use of Mac OSx being used to give keynotes at oss events09:06
MooDooczajkowski, is it really that much of an issue?09:17
AlanBellI am currently being amused by the number of people here presenting about ODF using .ppt files09:18
AlanBellnot all, some are using .odp09:18
oimoni am often surprised by the number of people who develop for ubuntu and tweet from their mac09:18
MooDoooimon, most are using ubuntu in  virtual box type situation ......09:19
oimoni find it bizarre. noticed a few people who have been staunch ubuntu fans and then got a mac and go on about it for ages.09:20
directhexi developer for debian from ubuntu, does that count?09:20
oimone.g. ryan paul and the omgubuntu boys09:20
czajkowskiMooDoo: pisses me off no end09:20
czajkowskidirecthex: yes but you're special in a good way :)09:21
BigRedSI only use Ubuntu at work...09:21
MooDooBigRedS, i use fedora at work.....09:21
MooDoobigcalm, if it works i'll use it, i'm not fussed what the os is09:22
MooDoobut that's a discussion for another year :)09:23
BigRedSI was amused to see a couple of windows laptops at fosdem09:23
MooDoolo daubers09:23
MooDooBigRedS, i've seen that too, but they are normally work laptops09:24
czajkowskiBigRedS: one guy 2 years ago presented on one in the keynote room09:26
czajkowskiinteresting talk09:26
czajkowskibut there was much heckling going on about his windows machine09:26
oimonfreedom ideology is quite a big part of why i use linux. not in an extreme RMS way, but it is still significant09:27
JGJonesI use Ubuntu - at home and at work (in last 2 jobs) and now as freelance, it's still ubuntu09:29
AlanBellif anyone is feeling bored please feel free to go through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ReApprovalApplication2011 and add dates when we did stuff, and link in pictures09:31
AlanBelland add extra stuff09:31
DavieyI use Ubuntu/Linux because i don't know how to use other OS's :)09:31
MooDooJGJones, i use a mixture of ubuntu, fedora and windows 709:32
JGJonesMooDoo - I don't have Windows 7 - I haven't even used it yet. I can't find a reason for paying for it - it's not going to bring me anything that I can't get with Windows XP or Vista which I already have OEM licences for)09:34
dogmatic69anyone know if afplay is available for ubuntu?09:34
brobostigon!info afplay09:35
lubotu3Package afplay does not exist in natty09:35
dogmatic69any idea how to play .wav from cmd then?09:36
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: mplayer?09:36
daubersAlanBell: Reading through that list, we should really make an Ubuntu board game09:38
MartijnVdSdaubers: "Community Chest" -> "Community Council"?09:39
dogmatic69is there a easy command for terminal to see if a program is installed?09:39
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: dpkg -l or apt-cache policy09:39
MartijnVdSthat or just type its name :)09:39
dogmatic69ye, just want to do something like if[ installed foo] ..09:40
daubersMartijnVdS: "CEO Stuck on ISS after missing his shuttle home, miss a go"09:41
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: if [ -e /some/binary ]; echo "/some/binary exists"; fi09:41
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: if [ -e /some/binary ]; then echo "/some/binary exists"; fi09:41
dogmatic69a ye09:41
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: check "man test" for more09:41
AlanBellor "which gedit" to get the path to the binary09:42
dogmatic69MartijnVdS: locate foo works also09:42
MartijnVdSAlanBell: if it's in PATH09:42
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: it works but it's not instant09:42
dogmatic69which is better09:42
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: locate-info only gets updated once a day09:42
dogmatic69ah, and which?09:43
MartijnVdSwhich is instant, but requires the binary to be in $PATH09:43
lubotu3The XY problem is when you need to do X, and you think you can use Y to do X, so you ask about how to do Y, when what you really should do is state what your X problem is. There may be a Z solution that is even better than Y, but nobody can suggest it if X is never mentioned.09:43
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: Which problem are you trying to solve?09:43
dogmatic69well im just doing if(notEmpty(which foo)){ foo $params} // excuse the fake code09:43
MartijnVdSwhat are you trying to accomplish?09:44
dogmatic69im trying to support something on mac and linux09:44
dogmatic69so if there is afplay its mac, if not its linux09:44
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: easier way:09:45
dogmatic69or, if there is afplay use afplay, if there is mplayer use it, etc09:45
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: case "`uname`" in09:45
MartijnVdS  Linux)09:45
MartijnVdS  do_linuxy_thing09:45
MartijnVdS  ;;09:45
MartijnVdS  WhateverMacosReturns)09:46
MartijnVdS  do_mac_thing09:46
MartijnVdS  ;;09:46
MartijnVdS  *)09:46
MartijnVdS  help_dontknow_what_to_do09:46
dogmatic69ye, that is possible09:46
MartijnVdS  ;;09:46
MartijnVdSsorry for hte on-channel coding :)09:46
dogmatic69i think doing which for the player is better as it could support others09:46
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: you can have the case fill a variable and use that09:47
=== denny- is now known as denny
andylockranhowdy guys09:56
andylockranpopey: beep beep09:56
andylockranthat's £32.43 please - thanks for shopping with andylockran enterprises09:56
gordthat's pretty good value09:56
andylockrangord: yeah.. setting up scanners to scan the product code of scanners to do asset tags09:59
andylockranI should have just pointed them all at each other and done a single click to scan them all at once10:00
daubersandylockran: mirrors?10:01
davmor2happy friday all10:05
MooDoohullo davmor210:05
andylockranheylo davmor210:06
gordwish someone would do rfid for all groceries already10:08
gordrfid tags?10:08
bigcalmRF ID10:08
daubersbigcalm: Bit like aphids, but completley different10:08
bigcalmdaubers: my mind could not parse the it any other way than as a word10:09
davmor2MooDoo: me owld mukka happy Friday it's here at last man it's been a long week10:38
MooDoodavmor2, tell me about it, busy weekend for me too.......:S10:39
MooDoodavmor2, got anything planned?10:51
=== carlosr is now known as Guest57719
davmor2trip to the black country museum and a chillout kill things sunday10:51
bigcalmOoo, haven't been to the bcm since I was a child10:52
davmor2bigcalm: ditto10:53
bigcalmI liked the barge trip through the tunnel the most10:53
MooDoonever been myself to be honest, wife is having a garden party say10:54
bigcalmOk, Saturday10:55
oimonseen that game "beep" they mentioned on OMG? looks fun10:56
oimonin a world of goo kind of way10:57
shaunoI really wish they'd tell us before they turned the water off.  Letting me fill the kettle first seems like a common decency :/11:16
oimontoiiet cistern? :P11:17
shaunothis thought has already occured ;)11:17
oimonprobably as clean as the water tank11:17
oimonactualyl there may be pigeons and rats in the water tank11:18
shaunoin theory, yeah.  but with an ick value that'll leave it until I'm desperate11:18
oimonscrape ice from the freezer...11:18
AlanBellkitchen taps are from the rising main, not the water tank11:19
AlanBellso you don't drink too much dead pigeon11:19
oimonhow about "kitchenette"?11:19
shaunoyou shower in pigeon :)11:19
* oimon doesn't have a water tank, but the office does11:20
oimoncombi boiler ftw11:20
shaunoI dunno if we have a tank, actually11:20
shaunogiven that the loft is a bedroom, I can't think where they'd hide it11:20
oimonin the remaining loft space?11:22
shaunoI'm not sure there is any11:22
shaunoin other news, a job I applied for sent me to a questionaire on surveymonkey that had all the usual interview questions.  never seen that before.  rather awkward.11:24
oimonwhy awkward?11:24
shaunoit's odd not being able to get a feel for what they're actually looking for11:25
oimonis it like a pre-interview filtering?11:26
shaunoI hope so11:26
=== Monster_Killer is now known as MonsterKiller
fvlinuxHi for all11:41
fvlinuxI was here in the last days because I'm without job...11:42
fvlinuxIf somebody have in your company or other company a lot of computers for refurbish11:42
fvlinuxI willing to refurbish some computers for have something to do11:43
fvlinuxif you can help me, please, send me an email vfontanella at gmail dot com11:45
dwatkinsfvlinux: where are you located?11:51
fvlinuxdwatkins: London11:55
AlanBellmaybe talk to fossbox fvlinux11:56
dwatkinsI know of a company in Doncaster that does computer refurbishment, there are lots of them around.11:57
dwatkinsMost municipal tips probably employ a firm to collect discarded computers for recycling, since there's a fair amount of stuff that can often be re-used in them. I suggest speaking to your local council about it, or look up such firms in the local yellow pages.11:57
fvlinuxdwatkins:I was looking for these companys...but  no answer11:58
fvlinuxmay they have fear I start a bussiness :)11:59
dwatkinsperhaps, yes11:59
dwatkinsthe firm I visited in Doncaster had about 6 employees, and some of the guys there were really good at repairing PCs, whereas some of them didn't have a clue.11:59
DJonesfvlinux: It would probably be a good idea to send an email to the ubuntu-uk mailing list as well, there was some discussion abouut that type of thing a month or so back (I think)12:00
fvlinuxdwatkins: do you have the name of this company?12:00
fvlinuxDjones: I sent an amail days a go for ubunu-uk mail list12:01
dwatkinsfvlinux: somewhere, yes12:01
fvlinuxbut I don't know if moderators have sent my email for /dev/null12:02
popey<- moderator12:03
fvlinuxpopey: do you are moderator of the list? :)12:03
popeyi see no mail waiting12:03
popeyone of them12:03
fvlinuxI don't have recive nothing since that12:04
fvlinuxlet me see is the Rigth list...12:04
popeydo you use gmail?12:05
popeyyou only see your own mail to lists if somoene replies to it12:06
popeythats normal for gmail12:06
fvlinuxpopey: well...12:06
fvlinuxpopey: I'll send again12:06
popeyhang on12:06
popeywhat address did you send it from?12:06
fvlinuxvfontanella at gmail dot com12:07
popeyi see no mail from you12:07
popeyand you dont appear to have subscribed to the list12:07
mattipopey: LOL @ http://gscreenlaptop.3dcartstores.com/ ;d12:08
popeymad isn it?12:08
mattiDo they fold somehow?12:08
dwatkinswow, is that real?12:08
mattidwatkins: So it seems ;d12:09
popeyone screen goes behind the other12:09
dwatkinsI'm still waiting to hear about te Noteslate, which is a nifty idea - kinda like a Kindle you can write on.12:10
dwatkinsThey made the marketing mistake of promising stuff on facebook and now people are going off in a huff because they are taking longer than they said they would.12:11
* popey promises cookies on facebook12:11
dwatkinsHooray! We're all going to have cookies!12:11
popeyruh roh12:12
dogmatic69\o/ cookies12:12
dwatkinsI have no cookies yet, I am enraged!12:13
dwatkinsI shall demonstrate this by posting lots of angry messages on popey's facebook page and point out where I can get alternative cookies from, and that I'm off to buy them instead.12:14
dwatkinsThey posted recently on the Noteslate facebook page saying they're still solving problems. It remains to be seen if they actually will have a marketable product.12:19
dogmatic69i dont see the point of that12:21
dogmatic69can just download a drawing app for my ipad12:22
AlanBellbut that isn't e-ink display12:23
dogmatic69but i can switch to a game when im done and get my mails too12:24
dogmatic69not goign to carry 2x  just to draw on.12:24
AlanBellthat would not be a benefit for some use-cases12:24
BigRedSI'd like that for appending to things on a kindle12:25
BigRedSrather than as a genuine dawing thing12:25
BigRedSappending to? annotating12:25
dogmatic69if you dont have a ipad/tablet yet, and will never get one, and you want to draw on something that is not paper... maybe12:25
dogmatic69small market, yes12:25
BigRedSwell, I quite like my kindle for reading from, but none of the advantages apply to a tablet12:26
BigRedSbut it's horrific to type on, so I don't. It'd  be nice to write in the margins exactly as I do a real book12:26
BigRedSwell, almost exactly12:26
AlanBelldogmatic69: exactly12:27
* dogmatic69 likes 16mil colors and hd res12:27
AlanBelldifferent pricepoint too12:29
* BigRedS likes easy to read text and long battery life12:29
dogmatic6910h on my ipad12:30
AlanBellit is an etchasketch, they still sell12:30
dogmatic69mostly use it for reading12:30
BigRedSa few weeks on my kindle12:33
dwatkinsI would find an e-tablet really handy if I could use it to take down notes whilst on the phone then e-mail myself a copy of the display.12:34
dwatkinsI don't have an ipad, and paper is easy to lose etc.12:34
popeythere are kindle like devices you can write on12:35
popeythe iliad irex was one12:36
fvlinuxpopey: Only for note, I have to apologize, I sent an email to ubuntu ony no -uk.12:40
fvlinuxpopey: but I sent minutes a go an email to the list.12:40
fvlinuxpopey: Thank's for your help. ;)12:41
BigRedSodd. that was aimed at vim and I both missed vim and the colon14:03
bigcalmPondering Harry Potter sometime soon. Not sure if I want to bother with the 3d bit though. Thoughts?14:12
JGJones "Harry Potter is about confronting fears, finding inner strength and doing what is right in the face of adversity. Twilight is about how important it is to have a boyfriend." -- Stephen King14:13
JGJonesjust saw this quote14:13
BigRedSyeah, I enjoyed that14:15
bigcalmI don't have a boyfriend, on noes14:18
=== YDdraigGoch is now known as WelshDragon
MooDoomade me smile14:20
MooDoobigcalm, you can get one, they are quite cheap from tesco :)14:20
davmor2bigcalm: I'm thinking I could kill whooper meal right now if that helps?14:20
AlanBellbigcalm: ask Pendulum14:21
* bigcalm tickles davmor214:21
bigcalmPendulum: *poke*14:21
davmor2bigcalm: No to 3d until it is actual holograms on a table it's only 2 1/2 d at best and you look a muppet in the glasses :D  hope that helps14:23
* MooDoo can't see 3d :(14:23
davmor2MooDoo: you could if it was holograms on a table :)14:23
gorddavmor2, what you really want, is a play14:24
gordvery 3d14:24
davmor2gord: yeah but the special effects suck, unless it's a magic show14:24
MartijnVdSYou want a holodeck?14:25
AlanBellbigcalm: Pendulum was saying the 3d glasses are like Harry's glasses14:25
davmor2MartijnVdS: hell yeah14:25
gordi'm one of the few people that actually like 3d :) glasses are a giant pain though i agree, 3ds does things right14:25
davmor2gord: agreed the 3ds is way better than the 3d on tellys too14:26
oimonnever seen a 3D film14:26
WelshDragonAnybody compiled breakpad before? It's failing to link for me: "undefined reference to `dlclose'"14:26
gordi don't get people who rage about 3d at all, i can understand not wanting glasses and not wanting to pay more for it, but some people seem to be vindictive against 3d, just the every idea is offensive to them somehow14:27
gordpersonally i think objects looking solid in my media rather than like paintings is a good thing14:27
oimongord:  probably because there is a link between 3D movies and crap story14:27
oimonand sequels in general tbh14:27
gordnope thats not it, they go see the movies in 2d instead14:28
directhexcorrelation does not imply causation14:29
MartijnVdSas xkcd proves today :)14:31
JGJones3D give me an headache and eyesores - because I watched some "3D" films with subtitles (cinemas now do subtitled films yah) and...urgh...it's not pleasant reading subtitles on a 3D screen.14:34
directhexJGJones, i don't see how it would be possible. you can't focus on the peripheries with 3d movies14:35
JGJonesdirecthex, the subtitles obviously are along the bottom of the movie - but with the 3d getting in the way etc, it somehow make reading subtitles a pain.14:35
davmor2gord: I think it sucks cause it isn't 3d and is a blatant lie to call it such can you see the action from the side or behind? if the answer is no then it isn't 3d it's blurry 2d with shadowing enhancements and optical illusion.14:36
JGJonesAnd it's usually white.14:36
JGJonesGet a bright scene in the movie?14:36
davmor2stereographic telly would be better :)14:36
JGJonesGood luck reading that...14:36
JGJonesbut I'm not complaining...at least I GET subtitles in a cinema which is something.14:36
AlanBellhmm, youtube has a 15 minute video limit14:37
AlanBellwhat do I do with a 32 minute video?14:37
JGJonesI complain more about the daft and silly times that cinemas put on subtitles (one cinema stopped showing subtitles completely because they said no deafies ever turn up to watch it)14:37
gordits not really an optical illusion, if its blurry then it was done wrong14:37
JGJonesNot surprisingly because that cinema was showing subtitled films on a monday morning only.14:37
davmor2gord: no it just means you're sat off center14:38
JGJonesdeafies do work, we'll have to take a day off to watch it and who like going to cinemas in the morning? :)14:38
JGJonesbut apart from that...it's great to watch films in a cinema14:38
JGJonesgord - I'm sure I read that they do purposely make some part of the screen a bit blurry so that the focus is on what they want you to focus on or something like that14:39
gorddavmor2, sitting off centre wouldn't make it blurry14:39
gordJGJones, anyone who does that is a terrible cinematographer14:39
JGJonesgord - plenty of them around.14:39
JGJonesgord it's called Hollywoord.14:39
gordJGJones, yeah but they screw up 2d movies too ;) its not specific to 3d14:40
davmor2gord: oh it did when I sat straight on it was perfect moved to the side and it was no longer pin sharp14:41
gorddavmor2, sounds like a crap projector14:41
davmor2gord: Although I don't like it and mock it to hell,  I always tell people to try out the 3d tellys in stores to see how they get on with it14:41
davmor2gord: sorry I was talking tv not cinema sorry14:42
gordoh well 3d tv's are notorious for being crap - frankly its tricky to get one that works well14:42
awilkinsJGJones, You could do subtitles that only the deaf people could see with 3D tech14:43
awilkinsJGJones, Only it would have to be a 2D showing14:43
awilkinsYou just polarize the subtitles and provide polarized glasses that block them for all the hearing people14:43
davmor2gord: I don't go to the cinema every since they found it compulsory to deafen the audience :D14:44
awilkinsHell, yes, what's that about? The guy who adjusts the volume goes "Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk, this one goes up to 'leven, Cleetus!"14:44
oimonMartijnVdS: i thought today's xkcd was about combining 2 axes :P14:46
awilkinsWhat, like the Darth Maul model of axe?                                                          ;-)14:46
oimonah, one of my favourite bad lines from a film "only sith deal in absolutes"14:47
MartijnVdSsounds like a dwarf in my D&D party :P14:47
gordi have a projectionist friend in norway, big film buff, very perfectionist when it comes to providing a good experience. he came over to the uk to watch some movies that came out early here and for a holiday last year. he didn't enjoy how crap most uk cinema's were ;)14:49
MartijnVdSgord: it's not much better over here14:49
oimonmy issue is the sticky carpet14:49
MartijnVdSexcept maybe in "artsy" cinemas with 3-4 seats14:49
MartijnVdSok 30-40 but you get the idea14:50
* awilkins wonders if it would work better if the projectionist wasn't imprisoned in the booth but could join the audience and tweak things via an app on his phone14:50
MartijnVdSawilkins: they don't get paid enough, I think14:51
MartijnVdSjust a one-week crash course as well, instead of a good training14:51
gordthe technology is changing which is making it harder to provide a good experience, its so computer controlled and locked down these days14:51
MartijnVdSand don't forget that more people are deaf from ipods14:52
awilkinsAh yes, the whole "if you don't get an auth code from this internet site before changing 3D filters, we'll brick your projector" gubbins14:52
MartijnVdSand likely to complain that "you should turn up the sound!"14:52
awilkinsIt staggers me the number of people I hear irrevocably screwing up their hearing.14:52
awilkinsWell, OK. MAybe I'm not surprised. I *am* aghast.14:53
oimonfrom loud ipods?14:53
oimonhow loud can you actually listen to UUPC without it getting uncomfortable? ;)14:54
awilkinsIf your phones sound loud to me on a train, or your car stereo sounds loud to me with your windows closed, you're doing soma damage14:54
awilkinsI have some in-ear ones that are virtually inaudible even when they're not in your ears14:55
oimoni don't understand - when i take off my earbuds i can't hear them from 1 foot away, so why can i hear some guys music (every word and chord) from 12 feet away14:55
awilkinsMuch more polite, and don't damage your hearing because they block out exterior noise so you don't turn them up14:55
oimoni think the default ipod earbuds are made inside out14:55
awilkinsThe worst of it is, when we're old, everyone will shout at us because they think we went deaf in our 30s14:56
oimoni do think i have tinitus but i think it's unlreated14:57
JGJonesoimon, I've got tinitus - pain in arse...so play lots of music, helps a lot.15:07
JGJonesawilkins, interesting idea actually. in UK - we get subtitles on screen. In USA, a bit different, one method is that they get a dedicated screen that they place in a cup holder and adjust it so that it's in front of a cinema screen15:08
oimongets worse when i'm tired,15:08
JGJonesand you read subtitles on that screen and view the film thru the screen15:08
JGJoneshowever you must sit in a very specific spot, and not move - it's not very much liked15:08
JGJonesSome cinema's in USA are now experimenting with putting subtitles via an app on a iPad - worst idea ever...I do not want to hold a iPad and read subtitles on that and then look at screen.15:09
awilkinsJGJones, You really need hud-glasses15:09
awilkinsJGJones, It can only be a matter of time until such things are practical15:10
gordhud glasses with speech recognition software, you could subtitle everything :)15:10
awilkins"phenomenoscopes" ala Neal Stephenson / Diamond Age15:10
JGJoneshttp://www.yourlocalcinema.com/ - currently for UK - I use this page for looking up when and where subtitled films are in the local area15:11
awilkinsSince you're not going to get the hearing people to all wear glasses, next stupid idea... maybe you could project subtitles in light and it's anti-light simultaneously... polarize them a little differently and issue polarizing glasses to people to filter out the anti-light component (I have no idea if that's even technically possible, surely minute variations in the screen would totally screw up the wavefronts)15:13
awilkinsMaybe a bit like the way you can see rainbow patterns in laminated glass and plastic while wearing polarized sunglasses15:14
JGJonesawilkins, that's the system I mentioned that's used in USA - https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Rear_Window_Captioning_System15:17
awilkinsJGJones, Pretty klunky but functional15:18
JGJonesit's not very much liked though - ie sometime your head might get in way blocking the subtitles etc, and sometime you must sit "in the correct area" and not move etc15:18
awilkinsJGJones, I imagined it being on the ceiling15:18
JGJonesThe subtitles that I watch - are "burnt" into the screen - but the downside is that they are only shown at specific time and dates (ie using yourlocalcinema.com to find out when and where) as cinemas claim hearing folks hate them15:19
awilkinsmight work better on the ceiling15:19
JGJonesI'm sure a lot do hate it, but then whenever I go to watch a popular film that's subtitled, there's plenty of hearing folks in the room too and they don't seem too bothered to me.15:20
JGJonesoh well...one day, they'll come up with a perfect solution meaning I can go and watch any film at any time with subtitles that isn't in the way for others :)15:21
JGJonesHmm interesting...15:21
JGJonesReal time text in jabber15:21
awilkinsI saw mention of this, thought it might be a subset of the Wave stuff15:22
awilkinsNot sure I like realtime text chat though15:23
awilkinsEven the "Someone is typing" notifiers have their downsides15:23
JGJonesit was developed by a deafie - as for text relays, realtime is very useful.15:24
JGJonescurrently it's a bit like this - IRC - when I type my reply, the other person have to wait until I finish my sentence and send it before the text relay operator can voice it over15:25
awilkinsI'm more concerned with people seeing my typos and that I don't accidentally type "what an ****hole" in the wrong window without the ability to retract it15:25
awilkinsBut I do see the plus side15:25
awilkinsI quite liked Wave, which had this feature from the outset15:26
awilkinsShame it didn't catch on, really15:26
MartijnVdSwhoa.. 80% of the Netherlands is without FM radio coverage atm15:26
MartijnVdSOne tower had a fire and collapsed, another was turned off because of fear of short-circuit of some kind15:26
awilkinsThe whole Netherlands is covered by three FM radio towers????15:27
awilkinsTHat's what you get for being flat.15:27
MartijnVdSawilkins: well, 20-ish, but 5 big ones15:27
MartijnVdShttp://radio-tv-nederland.nl/map/Kaart%20met%20alle%20publieke%20nationale%20FM%20zenders%20in%20Nederland.pdf  :)15:28
MartijnVdSawilkins: but the big towers feed the (repeating) smaller ones15:28
=== jpds_ is now known as jpds
zleapwhere are the display settings in ubuntu15:41
bigcalmAnybody fancy givine me an answer to this? http://cuth.eu/aircon15:41
popeybigcalm: I paid 400 or so for mine15:42
popeyat a non-brand garage15:42
popeyzleap: what do you mean?15:42
popeyzleap: if you're on 11.04 then press the button in the top left and type "monitor"15:42
bigcalmpopey: did you go for branded parts?15:42
popeyno idea :D15:42
popeyprobably not15:42
bigcalmI have to ask myself; do I want to save £110 or £205?15:43
bigcalmpopey: and thank you for not ansering "yes" to my original question, you're slipping :P15:44
zleapi think i have fixed it now15:44
zleapi was looking for something called display,  but its called monitors instead15:45
zleapi am trying to work out if my monitor is faulty,  or if there is a problem with my graphics card, so to test i want to see if I can display inmage from netbook on to the monitor15:45
suprengrI recognize some names in list as those who extol Minecraft... is there a safe/legal/honest way for those curious [me ;)] to try it & see if pooter can cope ok?15:50
suprengr..downladed the .jar file but thought I'd check 1st.15:50
zleapin 10.04 how to i switch from using a netbook display to using a external monitor (connected via vga port|) is there a key combination somewhere ?15:51
suprengrzleap, most netbooks [& laptops] have a blue or green key matching functions on top of 'f' keys... one looks like a monitor moving.15:52
suprengr...& throws in sequence to internal, both or external15:53
* suprengr sneaks off to check netbook for better description15:54
suprengrin my case is ble letters 'Fn' [function'?] and key is f5 showing black screen shaped box with a vertical line next to it then pointing to white shaped screen box15:57
suprengr...&... so is the works laptop [coincidence]15:57
JGJonesHmm interesting...http://androidflip.com/linux-android-asus-eee-pad-transformer-tf101-coming/15:59
JGJonesUbuntu on a Asus Transformer?15:59
oimonmy next portable device will look like that16:00
oimonwhether the EPD has been replaced ny then i dunno, but seems great16:00
popeythat article couldn't get any less readable if it was printed upside down16:02
oimoni had to check if chrome was transalting it from chinese16:03
MartijnVdSshauno: Cable and satellite aren't affected, and neither are t'interwebs..so I can still listen to my favourite radio program :)16:58
shaunoheh.  no real loss.  FM's dead anyway16:59
MartijnVdSshauno: over here it's not17:00
MartijnVdSshauno: DAB never materialized here17:00
shaunonot sure there's much in the way of DAB here either (other than what leaks from the UK)17:00
shaunothey just killed FM by filling it with dross17:00
MartijnVdSOver here only the publicly-funded channels are good17:01
shaunoI mostly just listen to the world service on the intertubes17:02
MartijnVdSshauno: vlc http://livestreams.omroep.nl/npo/3fm_vsr-bb17:03
MartijnVdSshauno: for much Dutch silliness :)17:03
shaunohm. can't figure out how to open it.  vlc has a UI only a mother could love17:05
MartijnVdSshauno: hence the command line17:05
shaunoyou know, dutch almost looks intelligible when written down17:09
MartijnVdSshauno: so is English for me :)17:09
shaunoon the radio, not so much :)17:09
bigcalmJust deleted my 4sq account. Feels good to reduce redundant services. Facebook is next if I enough of my friends make it onto Google+17:10
MartijnVdSshauno: Some British artist once said "Your English is very good." from stage... I replied: "You too!" -- looks of confusion all around :)17:11
shaunowow.  how many times do you have to ^C to get vlc to die :/17:16
shaunoI wonder why geoip fails on a large number of addresses I feed17:17
StevenRhrrm. display corruption on resume from hibernate again :(17:31
* StevenR wonders how to submit a bug report about it (or rather, how to gather useful X11 info)17:31
MartijnVdSStevenR: ubuntu-bug will attach the Xorg log and dmesg to the bug automatically17:32
StevenRoh. cool.17:32
MartijnVdSStevenR: ubuntu-bug display17:32
freenodizlil question ...i have wine installed.I have some windozee lil apps..example "aleo flash banner creator",that i want it to work with wine...I've been into wine website,and i saw posts about big apps,such as adobe..but no info about running this small  lil apps...another app came to my mind "faststone photo resizer"..17:38
MartijnVdSfreenodiz: you can just try them17:38
MartijnVdSfreenodiz: or find alternative applications that do what you want17:38
StevenRhrrm. how do I turn off compiz stuff?17:39
MartijnVdSStevenR: on the login screen select 2d mode/classic mod17:39
freenodizMartijnVdS,my i pm you?17:39
MartijnVdSfreenodiz: better to keep things on-channel I think17:39
StevenRMartijnVdS: I'm in classic mode, but the desktop effects are still turned on :S17:39
jacobwuse alternative apps17:39
jacobwimagemagick is awesome17:40
MartijnVdSLots of programs capable of image resizing17:40
freenodizi can't find anything to replace this http://www.aleosoft.com/ nothing good as this one..if i could put such app to work...17:41
freenodizi guess i will try it17:41
jacobwwhat does it do?17:42
freenodizMartijnVdS,you think apps such as this ones,based in flash..would be more likely to have issues?17:42
freenodizjacobw,it does flash banners on the fly17:43
jacobwits impossible to say17:43
jacobwwhat do you want to make flash banners for?17:43
freenodizim sry,this is the correct link17:43
freenodiz http://www.aleosoft.com/flash-intro-banner-maker/index.html17:43
freenodizalso,i have this app,wich relies on microsoft IIS server...i gues i can install IIS on wine...can i?17:45
freenodizi hate the microsof17:47
freenodizi really want to get rid of this apps17:47
freenodizwindows vista is trashing up my brand new hitachi hdd...grrr lol17:50
jacobwits best to use standardised technologies so you can work with open source software17:50
jacobwi.e. flash sucks17:50
freenodizjava guy?17:51
freenodizahhh,or cause it's just from our last stand ADOBE?17:51
MartijnVdSfreenodiz: it's because Adobe software is bloated, full of security holes, and alternatives (HTML5) are becoming more viable by the day17:52
jacobwits a closed format that you can only create with a proprietrary software suite17:52
MartijnVdSand that17:53
freenodizwell,whatever...I will replace the apps..run ubuntu as main os,and a partition with mac os,to run my adobe apps17:53
MartijnVdSYour loss ;)17:53
freenodizi want to learn a bit of sys admin.Is that recommended i install ubuntu server edition,to practise,instead of the normal one?any particular care?17:55
jacobwyou can install whatever you like on either edition17:58
freenodizAnd,regarding adobe,i think that if you can't win,the best is  join... :D17:58
ali1234lol, please tell me what the viable open alternative to after effects is17:58
jacobwso you can install -desktop and add whatever packages you want to learn about17:59
freenodizahh,ok ,ty,so i will go server17:59
freenodizthats cool17:59
freenodizi really want to learn how to set up the server myself,and stop giving money for this virtuozzo hosts with centos installed..parasites18:00
ali1234virtua-whizzo sucks18:00
freenodizali1234,good point,how can u replace such apps?fire works?any matches?there's none...18:01
ali1234lol fireworks is horrible18:01
freenodizyeap,i just realize that now...i'm working with drupal app also,and i just fond drush18:02
ali1234my only experience of it is "that program that steals all the file associations and takes AGES to load"18:02
ali1234i don't see the point of fireworks18:02
freenodizfireworks is horrible,i can see you are not a designer lol18:02
ali1234it's just a half assed image editor18:02
freenodizno way18:02
freenodizdont say that18:02
ali1234why would you use fireworks, when you can use photoshop instead?18:02
freenodizi want go trough that discussion,just google it18:03
freenodizmi won't*18:03
freenodizi won't*18:03
freenodizfireworks is the right arm of a web designer18:03
ali1234they only keep it around to keep the old macromedia customers happy18:03
ali1234they should never have bought any of that stuff18:04
freenodiznot true18:04
freenodiznot true again18:04
ali1234adobe has been going downhill since they bought it18:04
ali1234another company ruined by steven elop18:04
freenodizfireworks runs custom scripts,for especific webdesigner needs18:05
freenodizlike the ubuntu command line :)18:05
freenodizI would be so proud if the open source community could produce a package such as adobe,like a mirror18:06
freenodiza copy :P18:07
freenodizlets hack that code! yayyy18:07
freenodizthanks for tips guys,mean time i will be using the adobe in a partition,thanks all tips18:12
freenodizMartijnVdS ++18:12
freenodizjacobw ++18:12
jacobwali1234: brain still working?18:16
=== BitcoinSpeculatr is now known as OmNomDeBonBon
Azelphurdoes anyone know if sky broadband messes with torrents?18:38
* Azelphur runs18:42
MartijnVdSAzelphur: come to the Netherlands, ISPs aren't allowed to mess with traffic anymore here :)18:42
MartijnVdSAzelphur: by law18:42
AzelphurMartijnVdS: that makes me more tempted to move to the netherlands than it really should do :p18:42
MartijnVdSAzelphur: Everyone speaks English, and Dutch really isn't that hard to learn anyway (I know several people who have learned it)18:43
popeyherdy gerdy18:44
MartijnVdSpopey: yes, but no.18:44
MartijnVdSpopey: try "Goeiemorgen allemaal!"18:45
czajkowski▞▀▖ ▌   ▞▀▖ ▌ ▌ ▞▀▖18:53
czajkowski▙▄▌ ▌   ▌ ▌ ▙▄▌ ▙▄▌18:53
czajkowski▌ ▌ ▌   ▌ ▌ ▌ ▌ ▌ ▌18:53
czajkowski▘ ▘ ▀▀▘ ▝▀  ▘ ▘ ▘ ▘18:53
* MartijnVdS waves in czajkowski's direction18:53
jpdsMartijnVdS: But it's not morning.18:54
MartijnVdSjpds: "Goeienavond allemaal!"18:55
jpdsGut, ganz gut...18:55
MartijnVdSjpds: But we say "mogge" all day long18:55
MartijnVdSjpds: (short for "goeiemorgen")18:55
jpdsMartijnVdS: Probably like moin in Germany.18:55
MartijnVdSjpds: likely, yes18:55
MartijnVdSheh http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=Liverpool&daddr=Birkenhead&hl=en&dirflg=w19:12
StevenRMartijnVdS: oops.19:13
MartijnVdSStevenR: slightly :)19:13
MartijnVdSStevenR: I love how it says "12 hours. Or take the bus (30 minute)"19:16
bigcalm_lappy486popey: which brand of ssd have you gone for?19:17
dogmatic69does anyone know why ubuntu forums take me to login page from google lately?19:17
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: no idea, openid?19:18
dogmatic69MartijnVdS: never been registered or needed to before...19:19
dogmatic69also, you know when google shows a site + 5 form links as one result19:19
MartijnVdSno idea19:19
MartijnVdSI don't see a google login page when I go to the forums19:20
dogmatic69the 5 links i can always use, just not the main one. although cache works19:20
dogmatic69it says log in19:20
dogmatic69but.. i can see it with google cache19:20
DJonesI just get vbullitin login page with that link19:21
MartijnVdSmaybe it used to be public, but now it's private/locked?19:21
dogmatic69the top result... no matter what i search. the 'main' one is locked and the sub ones work19:22
dogmatic69for the ubuntu forums only19:22
popeybigcalm_lappy486: I have various ones19:23
popeyyes dogmatic69 I know why19:23
bigcalm_lappy486Ah, ok. Any you would recommend then? :)19:23
dogmatic69popey: do tell :)19:23
popeythey have made old archived stuff non-accessible19:23
popeyexcept by google19:23
popeypersonally I'd wipe it all19:23
dogmatic69either its there or not19:24
popeythe old stuff is mostly crap19:24
dogmatic69very stupid to have the 'main' result for "ubuntu + xyz" locked19:24
dogmatic69cant you pull some strings :P19:24
bigcalm_lappy486popey: I assume that one requires an additional kit to fit an ssd into a desktop machine?19:25
popeymost come with them19:25
dogmatic69bigcalm_lappy486: a resize thing19:25
popeyall of mine did19:25
bigcalm_lappy486Ah, cool19:25
popeyi can benchmark all 3 if you want19:25
MartijnVdSpopey: so which ones do you have? (SSDs)19:25
* dogmatic69 wants a SSD19:26
bigcalm_lappy486I'm looking at http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/search/ref=sr_nr_n_0?rh=k%3Assd%2Cn%3A340831031%2Cn%3A%21340832031%2Cn%3A428655031%2Cn%3A430505031&bbn=428655031&keywords=ssd&ie=UTF8&qid=1310757620&rnid=428655031#/ref=sr_nr_p_72_0?rh=k%3Assd%2Cn%3A340831031%2Cn%3A%21340832031%2Cn%3A428655031%2Cn%3A430505031%2Cp_36%3A428446031%2Cp_72%3A419153031&bbn=430505031&keywords=ssd&ie=UTF8&qid=1310757629&rnid=419152031 and tryi19:26
bigcalm_lappy486ng to comprimise between speed/size/cost19:26
popeyCorsair CSSD-F1219:26
bigcalm_lappy486Sorry :)19:26
MartijnVdSLong URL is long19:26
popey INTEL SSDSA2M12019:27
popey^^^ those19:27
dogmatic69i was thinking 1VTX30G 30 GB Vertex Series19:27
bigcalm_lappy486This is to go in my windows machine for work. So I won't be on steam until it lets you install to other drives19:27
popeyi have steam on mine19:28
popeynothing else tho ☺19:28
bigcalm_lappy486Not even minecraft?19:28
popeywhat do you need for work?19:28
popeya text editor surely :D19:28
popeyyeah, mc too19:28
bigcalm_lappy486MS Office, Adobe CS3, PhpEd, most web browsers, sqlyog,19:29
bigcalm_lappy486Reeeeeeeeealy tempting to dual boot the workstation if I do put a new drive in it19:30
bigcalm_lappy486It's my external hardware that stops me from using anything other than Windows19:30
bigcalm_lappy486USB dvi graphics card to run a 3rd screen and a skype adaptor box that connects to my desk phone19:32
popeydoes the usb gfx card not work in ubuntu>?19:33
bigcalm_lappy486It's not reported to do so. TBH, never tried :)19:34
* bigcalm_lappy486 takes the lappy to it19:35
bigcalm_lappy486Well, it doesn't _just work_19:36
bigcalm_lappy486I shall research19:36
popeywhat does lsusb say it is?19:37
bigcalm_lappy486It's a conv-usb2dvi19:37
popeyusb id ?19:38
bigcalm_lappy486Bus 002 Device 005: ID 17e9:0138 Newnham Research19:38
MartijnVdSbigcalm_lappy486: check the "udlfb" device driver19:40
MartijnVdSand xserver-xorg-video-displaylink19:40
bigcalm_lappy486MartijnVdS: ta for the info19:43
bigcalm_lappy486I shall play with it over the weekend19:43
bigcalm_lappy486Now, it's time to watch In the Line of Fire19:43
shaunointeresting.  get_iplayer's stopped working for me :(19:48
MartijnVdSlet me chec19:49
MartijnVdSERROR: rtmp server sent error19:50
shaunothat's the one19:50
shaunooh, it's working now.  musta caught auntie with her bloomers down20:28
shauno(for a while there, I was terrified they'd pegged me for a foreigner)20:30
liami need a lil help please20:34
StevenRliam: don't ask to ask, just ask :)20:38
liami am having issues with ubuntu 11.04 and the laptop an it doesnt spin long enough letting the system get too hot20:39
liamaround 80 85 degrees20:42
Guest87896i am just trying the channel20:53
Guest87896Well what is the classical way of using IRC... with Xchat or Xchat-Gnome? they both look sort of the same...20:59
Azelphurhmm, on my server (ubuntu server) grinds to a halt whenever any disk i/o goes on, ie a file copy21:04
Azelphurany way to fix it?21:04
suprengrAzelphur, http;//smack_it_with_a_hammer.com ;)21:07
shaunoMartijnVdS: fixed it!  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmqsP6hV5lw21:17
ubuntuuk-planet[Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Developer Summit Sponsorship Now Open - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/07/15/ubuntu-developer-summit-sponsorship-now-open-2/22:12
StevenRurrgh. I really want to fix that first paragraph in the approval application (I have the technical ability, just haven't worked out how to make it right yet :) )22:13
ali1234AlanBell: remember how you asked everyone to test the new wiki, and everyone said "launchpad openid doesn't work", well it still doesn't work22:37
StevenRali1234: works for me :)22:40
StevenRoh. new wiki?22:40
StevenRali1234: sorry, thought you meant the approval app page (my brain is full of trying to fix some of the wording)... is there a new wiki?22:44
ali1234that's what i mean22:44
ali1234login takes several minutes22:44
ali1234although it does work eventually22:45
StevenRthat's not the same as "doesn't work"22:45
ali1234yes it is22:45
ali1234unless taking 5 minutes to login is intentional22:45
ali1234are you doing a lot of edits?22:47
ali1234cos i just went through and fixed all the typos and spelling mistakes, of which there are many22:47
StevenRali1234: I did a bunch last night22:47
StevenRali1234: trying to re-work the paragraphing in that huge opening chunk of text. It just feels like too much text in one chunk22:49
ali1234the section headings make no sense22:49
ali1234it's like some one inserted them purely to break up the text22:49
StevenRali1234: I'm not so much good at content, but I'm good at making text work (spelling, punctuation, grammar), though I wasn't looking for typos last night, too tired yesterday22:53
shaunoheh, every time I see trcy.mi I think traverse city, but I know it's not23:06
shaunohm, or is it.  db says cadillac, but friends in petoskey show as trcy too  *mumbles*23:08
Azelphurali1234: you about? :)23:12
Azelphurhaving an issue with my server, every time it runs a disk intensive cron job (irc stats generation, mysql backup, etc) it makes the entire server grind to a halt23:12
Azelphurisn't disk I/O scheduling supposed to make that not happen?23:12
ali1234i suppose23:13
Azelphurany ideas on fixing it? :D23:13
ali1234get more ram23:13
Azelphurhow would that help o.o23:13
shaunostop using the disks :)23:13
ali1234well it doesn't seem to happen to me any more since i got 16gb23:13
Azelphurseems like a not so good solution :(23:14
ali1234i suspect it is something to do with the retardedly aggressive disk caching and swappiness on ubuntu23:14
ali1234something along the lines of:23:14
ali1234read file, put it in disk cache, disk cache is full, swap out some program memory, write it to disk23:16
hamitronI recall something making the install take ages with ext4 partitions23:16
ali1234this turns what should be a sequential read into a series of short read/write/read/write etc in totally different parts of the disk23:16
ali1234basically killing performance23:16
Azelphurmaybe switching swap off?23:16
ali1234nice one23:16
ali1234switch swap off, or reduce swappiness value of the kernel23:17
AzelphurI know about both, what you think would be best?23:17
ali1234or buy memory 2x the size of your /usr partition23:17
Azelphurcan't really buy memory since it's a rented server23:18
Azelphurunless I feel like paying +$241352313... /mo23:18
Azelphurapplications themselves are only using about 80-90% of the RAM23:19
Azelphurbut that would obviously explain the push23:19
Azelphurali1234: so, disable swap or lower swappiness, what's best? :P23:21
hamitronI'd do swapiness first23:21
AzelphurI know the defaults 60, so what are we changing it to, 10?23:21
hamitronbaby steps ftw23:22
hamitronjust see what it does23:22
Azelphurswappiness=0 tells the kernel to avoid swapping processes out of physical memory for as long as possible23:22
Azelphurowait we want 0.23:22
popeyAzelphur: i would actually do something else, like io nice the intensive jobs23:22
Azelphurpopey: I can see that that might be a good idea, but that said I really want the applications to stay in memory period23:23
Azelphurthe server runs game servers, so we absolutely don't want to swap out the game servers memory23:23
Azelphurthat's always going to result in bad.23:23
ali1234io nice does nothing23:23
hamitronlag just cost me 3 hearts :/23:24
Azelphurthere we go, swappiness 0 that should fix that one :)23:25
ikoniaAzelphur: if the games servers are in use, it won't swap them out to disk23:29
ikoniaAzelphur: it only swaps out applications to ram if they are unused23:30
ali1234ha ha ha, yeah right23:30
ali1234where unused is defined as "hasn't executed any code for longer than 0.1 microseconds"23:30
Azelphurikonia: well, they was all in use full of people using high amounts of CPU at the time :P23:30
hamitronI guess another good thing may be to offload some of the scripts and things running on that server23:30
ikoniaAzelphur: ok, so why are you messing with swap then ?23:30
Azelphurikonia: because ali1234 told me to and it makes sense :P23:30
Azelphurfeel free to make other suggestions :D23:30
ikoniaAzelphur: how would changing swapiness help you ?23:31
ali1234it will stop his game servers being swapped out when something does a long sequential read of a file23:31
Azelphurikonia: because if what ali1234 says is correct and it's swapping the game servers out when there's heavy disk I/O, turning swappiness to 0 should stop that23:31
ikoniaali1234: but if it needs to swap them out to do the read - it will crash him machine as it's out of ram23:32
ali1234ikonia: it does not need to swap to do the read23:32
ikoniaali1234: it does if there is no ram23:32
ikoniasomething has to give23:32
ali1234no, wrong23:32
ali1234that's completely idiotic23:32
ikoniano, correct23:32
ali1234it might need to swap to do the malloc23:32
bigcalm_lappy486popey: pondering this http://www.amazon.co.uk/OCZ-Vertex-2-5-inch-Internal-Solid/dp/B003NE5JCE/23:32
ikoniaif you have no ram23:32
ali1234but malloc is not affected by swappiness23:32
hamitroncan you force zero ram use for copying files?23:33
hamitronor any io23:33
ikoniaali1234: no, of course that's not effected by swappiness, but that's what I'm saying23:33
ikoniawhy is the games server being swapped to disk ?23:33
ali1234you are saying that read(2) is going to fail if swappiness is 0 and there's no free ram, but there is free swap23:34
ali1234which is quite obviously nonsense23:34
ikoniaali1234: no, that's not what I'm saying23:34
ikoniaali1234: I'm saying if there is no ram left, then stopping it to swap to do disk will not help23:34
ali1234swappiness does not disable swap23:34
ikoniano, it disables the application from being swapped out to disk23:35
ali1234it disables "hey let's swap out everything in favour of disk cache and interrupt the long sequential read with lots of extremely slow and tiny write operations in the process"23:35
ikoniain the example you're giving23:35
ali1234no, it doesn't do that either23:35
ikoniaah, so you're not trying to actually stop it swapping out to disk, you're trying to stop it proritising disk over it23:36
ali1234there is literally no way under linux to prevent an application from being swapped out except for disabling swap partitions entirely23:36
AlanBellhello UK23:46
bigcalm_lappy486Hello Docklands23:47
ali1234so i just got a android phone and i heard some people here have them23:54
ali1234how do i make it not show every single person who has ever emailed me in the contacts?23:54
hamitrona hammer to the screen would do it23:55
ali1234i dont think i'm going to get on with this23:55
AlanBellgo to gmail and delete them in contacts there23:56
ali1234but i don't want to delete them from gmail23:56
ali1234i might want to email them at some point in the future23:56
ali1234i just don't ever want to telephone them23:56
ali1234this sucks23:57
ali1234google maps is slooooooow23:58
ali1234and no skype and no google talk support23:58
AlanBellin the contacts display settings show only contacts with phone numbers23:58
ali1234why do people buy these things?23:58
AlanBellthere is skype23:59

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