[07:02] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:15] <AlanBell> morning
[07:36] <DJones> Morning all
[07:41] <MooDoo> morning
[07:42] <DJones> Hi MooDoo
[07:55] <MooDoo> AlanBell, how were your meetings in london?
[07:55] <AlanBell> jolly good :)
[07:55] <AlanBell> in Germany now
[07:55] <AlanBell> but basically, yes, we are going to do what I proposed
[07:55] <MooDoo> AlanBell, blimey, do you do a lot of travelling?
[07:56]  * DJones wonders whether sabdfl has a connection problem
[07:56] <AlanBell> not that much these days
[07:58] <MooDoo> AlanBell, so what's in germany today then?
[07:58] <AlanBell> in the Bundesministerium fur Wirtschaft und Technologyie
[07:58] <AlanBell> http://www.odfplugfest.de/
[07:59] <MooDoo> cool.....
[07:59] <jpds> No, that's alwys there, not just today.
[07:59] <AlanBell> indeed, it has been here for a while
[08:04] <jpds> AlanBell: http://tinyurl.com/5wjavx8
[08:04] <jpds> AlanBell: Best Currywurst place, ever.
[08:11] <MooDoo> someone having connection issues?
[08:11] <DJones> Not just someone, "The One" even
[08:12] <DJones> I did think about setting a forward to ##fixyourconnection, but probably wouldn't very politic to do that :)
[08:12] <MooDoo> DJones, hee hee :)
[08:15] <popey> Morning all
[08:16] <jpds> popey: Morning.
[08:17] <MooDoo> morning popey how are you this morening?
[08:21] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:22] <oimon> HazRPG: morning, just saw your message on scrollback, thanks, i already fixed the issue using adb shell and a symbolic link :D
[08:22] <oimon> CM uses a download cache partition that's too small (and shares it with dalvik cache)
[08:23] <oimon> i must say, google plus isn't really getting a massive following amongst my acquaintances
[08:25] <MooDoo> oimon, 10 million people so far
[08:26] <AlanBell> I have 139 Ubuntu people, 22 LotusGeeks
[08:26] <AlanBell> not much else
[08:26] <popey> great
[08:26] <popey> MooDoo: saw your tweet about adsense
[08:26] <oimon> AlanBell: plese say lotus car and not lotus notes :D
[08:26] <popey> You need to get a crate load more visitors to have any hope of people clicking ads
[08:26] <AlanBell> oimon: Notes
[08:26] <popey> and need to appeal to non-techies, who wont have adblock
[08:26]  * oimon loads his gun
[08:26] <DJones> I was going to suggest lotus flowers
[08:27] <AlanBell> I am a retired LotusGeek
[08:27] <jussi> is there an adblock for andorid?
[08:27] <popey> MooDoo: take OMGUbuntu for example. They earn crazy amounts of adsense money
[08:27] <popey> because they get metric tonnes of hits
[08:27] <oimon> know how much popey?
[08:27] <popey> i do
[08:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> jussi: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Adblock+for+Android
[08:28] <popey> (maybe)
[08:29] <popey> It's pretty amazing what they've done with that site
[08:29] <MooDoo> popey, my site is pretty crappy at the moment to be honest, i think tha's part of the problem.....
[08:29] <oimon> there was certainly a niche in the market
[08:29] <MooDoo> and i don't blog enough.....content is king
[08:30] <popey> i dont think thats the issue ☺
[08:30] <popey> ok, chaps I have a question for you
[08:30] <popey> imagine you're going to an event such as "OggCamp", on a scale of 1 (not annoying) to 10 (really annoying) how annoyed would you be if there was no free wifi there?
[08:31] <MooDoo> popey, normally i wouldn't be bothered, but as it's a techy event, i would say 8/9
[08:31] <AlanBell> is there cheap wifi there?
[08:31] <oimon> i'd say 5 for myself, since i have mobile internet on my phone
[08:31] <BigRedS> It's free, not at all. There's never wifi at LPWs and nobody minds
[08:31] <popey> AlanBell: please answer the question
[08:31] <popey> ☺
[08:31] <AlanBell> s/cheap/fast/
[08:31] <jussi> popey: 9
[08:32] <AlanBell> I would be annoyed if there was no wifi
[08:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Not that bothered - have unlimited data plan on my phone and service is "ok" at the maltings.
[08:32] <popey> BigRedS: LPW?
[08:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> 2/10
[08:32] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: what network?
[08:32] <BigRedS> popey: london perl workshop
[08:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> O2
[08:32] <popey> ta
[08:32] <oimon> popey: maybe word it another way: if the wifi was X pounds per day/hour, would you pay it, or use mobile 2g/3g instead
[08:32] <AlanBell> actually, I have a phone I would tether, I wouldn't give a toss
[08:32] <popey> please forget pay wifi
[08:32] <popey> I was very clear on my question
[08:32] <AlanBell> 1
[08:32] <popey> I'd like to keep it to that
[08:33] <MooDoo> 8
[08:33] <dogmatic69> popey: 0
[08:33] <dogmatic69> as long as there was mobile signal that is
[08:33] <bigcalm> popey: 1. the event is partly about connecting with people there, not over g+
[08:33] <BigRedS> so 0 , in case you're doing fancy parsing of logs to get votes
[08:33] <AlanBell> 1 personally, would be interesting from a video perspective if there was stacks of upload bandwidth
[08:34] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: you mean actually talk to people :S
[08:34] <AlanBell> dogmatic69: mobile signal is fine
[08:34] <MooDoo> shall we just answer his question with numbers?
[08:34] <MooDoo> lol
[08:34] <bigcalm> For those presenting, a connection might be useful. But people should be prepaired
[08:34] <BigRedS> I think we should trunk 3G devices to get enough bandwidth to upload video
[08:34] <MooDoo> i that's what he wants
[08:34] <awilkins> 22dB
[08:34] <bigcalm> popey: i
[08:35] <popey> ok
[08:35] <popey> so the venue doesn't have wifi coverage over all the rooms
[08:35] <popey> I am trying to sort some kind of solution
[08:35] <popey> but it's expensive
[08:35] <bigcalm> Have wifi in one room so that those that can't live without twitter can update
[08:35] <BigRedS> though LPW does have hard-to-saturate 3G coverage as something of a mitigating circumstance. But it's normal there to not be dossing around on the net in talks
[08:36] <awilkins> Could a mesh network be erected that used the existing connections as a gateway?
[08:36] <bigcalm> popey: how good is the building's fabric at blocking 3g signals?
[08:36] <popey> pass
[08:37] <popey> its an old building
[08:37] <popey> listed so running cables is hard
[08:37] <bigcalm> Hummz
[08:37] <JamesTait> Good morning all!
[08:37] <bigcalm> I'm almost tempted to not bring a laptop this year
[08:37] <bigcalm> But then, how would I play minecraft?
[08:37] <awilkins> Old buildings tend to block RF better than newer ones (unless the newer one has been designed to do so)
[08:38] <oimon> but there would be wifi zone somewhere? that's not bad at all
[08:40] <bigcalm> Get somebody on a unlimited data plan to tether. Does mean them staying put all day
[08:41] <oimon> i'd like to reduce my score to a 1 if there is wifi somewhere in the building
[08:41] <bigcalm> Just knowing that there is wifi, even if you don't use it?
[08:42] <BigRedS> It's in a town, isn't it? Surely there's a cafe within reasonable distance that'll do wifi for the cost of a coffee for those who somehow need it
[08:42] <BigRedS> ?
[08:42] <bigcalm> MacDonalds has free wifi...
[08:42] <oimon> maybe there should be a talk about disconnecting from the internet
[08:42] <bigcalm> oimon: nicely volenteered
[08:42] <oimon> :D
[08:42] <bigcalm> volenteered
[08:43] <oimon> volunteered
[08:43]  * BigRedS imagines a demonstration of unplugging a cat5 lead and then nothing else
[08:43] <bigcalm> Yes, my copy failed
[08:43] <oimon> maybe rigged up to a heart monitor
[08:43] <HazRPG> oimon: ah, good stuff ^_^
[08:43] <HazRPG> also, morning all
[08:44] <oimon> as we see ..the patients heart rate returns to normal after 15 minutes
[08:44] <MooDoo> oimon, i did last week when i was on hols in whitby, it was refreshing to have no internet
[08:44] <MooDoo> not even a phone signal
[08:45] <oimon> twitter is better when you refresh once a day and read all the stuff
[08:45] <oimon> rather than every 10 mins
[08:45] <oimon> cos u realise so much of it is dross
[08:48] <czajkowski> morning all
[08:51] <bigcalm> Hi czajkowski
[08:51] <bigcalm> oimon: depends upon whom you follow
[08:53] <MooDoo> czajkowski, aloha :p
[08:54] <czajkowski> oimon: depends on who you follow i regularly hae great discussions with people interactively with them via twitter
[08:55] <oimon> tbh i tend to use twitter rather differently, mainly as an rss feed
[08:55] <oimon> AKA one-way communication/broadcast feed
[08:55] <oimon> i think i'm just not a twitter fan
[09:05] <Daviey> czajkowski: 'great' discussions? :)
[09:05] <DJones> oimon: I use twitter in the same way, mainly as a news feed rather than two way communication
[09:06] <czajkowski> well myself and acruiz had a good old rant there yesterday about the use of Mac OSx being used to give keynotes at oss events
[09:17] <MooDoo> czajkowski, is it really that much of an issue?
[09:18] <AlanBell> I am currently being amused by the number of people here presenting about ODF using .ppt files
[09:18] <AlanBell> not all, some are using .odp
[09:18] <oimon> i am often surprised by the number of people who develop for ubuntu and tweet from their mac
[09:19] <MooDoo> oimon, most are using ubuntu in  virtual box type situation ......
[09:20] <oimon> i find it bizarre. noticed a few people who have been staunch ubuntu fans and then got a mac and go on about it for ages.
[09:20] <directhex> tsk.
[09:20] <directhex> i developer for debian from ubuntu, does that count?
[09:20] <oimon> e.g. ryan paul and the omgubuntu boys
[09:20] <czajkowski> MooDoo: pisses me off no end
[09:21] <czajkowski> directhex: yes but you're special in a good way :)
[09:21] <BigRedS> I only use Ubuntu at work...
[09:21] <MooDoo> BigRedS, i use fedora at work.....
[09:22] <BigRedS> ew
[09:22] <MooDoo> bigcalm, if it works i'll use it, i'm not fussed what the os is
[09:23] <MooDoo> but that's a discussion for another year :)
[09:23] <BigRedS> I was amused to see a couple of windows laptops at fosdem
[09:23] <daubers> lo
[09:23] <MooDoo> lo daubers
[09:24] <MooDoo> BigRedS, i've seen that too, but they are normally work laptops
[09:26] <czajkowski> BigRedS: one guy 2 years ago presented on one in the keynote room
[09:26] <czajkowski> interesting talk
[09:26] <czajkowski> but there was much heckling going on about his windows machine
[09:27] <oimon> freedom ideology is quite a big part of why i use linux. not in an extreme RMS way, but it is still significant
[09:29] <JGJones> I use Ubuntu - at home and at work (in last 2 jobs) and now as freelance, it's still ubuntu
[09:31] <AlanBell> if anyone is feeling bored please feel free to go through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ReApprovalApplication2011 and add dates when we did stuff, and link in pictures
[09:31] <AlanBell> and add extra stuff
[09:31] <Daviey> I use Ubuntu/Linux because i don't know how to use other OS's :)
[09:32] <MooDoo> JGJones, i use a mixture of ubuntu, fedora and windows 7
[09:34] <JGJones> MooDoo - I don't have Windows 7 - I haven't even used it yet. I can't find a reason for paying for it - it's not going to bring me anything that I can't get with Windows XP or Vista which I already have OEM licences for)
[09:34] <dogmatic69> anyone know if afplay is available for ubuntu?
[09:35] <brobostigon> !info afplay
[09:36] <dogmatic69> any idea how to play .wav from cmd then?
[09:36] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: mplayer?
[09:38] <daubers> AlanBell: Reading through that list, we should really make an Ubuntu board game
[09:39] <MartijnVdS> daubers: "Community Chest" -> "Community Council"?
[09:39] <dogmatic69> is there a easy command for terminal to see if a program is installed?
[09:39] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: dpkg -l or apt-cache policy
[09:39] <MartijnVdS> that or just type its name :)
[09:40] <dogmatic69> ye, just want to do something like if[ installed foo] ..
[09:41] <daubers> MartijnVdS: "CEO Stuck on ISS after missing his shuttle home, miss a go"
[09:41] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: if [ -e /some/binary ]; echo "/some/binary exists"; fi
[09:41] <MartijnVdS> uhr
[09:41] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: if [ -e /some/binary ]; then echo "/some/binary exists"; fi
[09:41] <dogmatic69> a ye
[09:41] <dogmatic69> nice
[09:41] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: check "man test" for more
[09:42] <AlanBell> or "which gedit" to get the path to the binary
[09:42] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: locate foo works also
[09:42] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: if it's in PATH
[09:42] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: it works but it's not instant
[09:42] <dogmatic69> which is better
[09:42] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: locate-info only gets updated once a day
[09:43] <dogmatic69> ah, and which?
[09:43] <MartijnVdS> which is instant, but requires the binary to be in $PATH
[09:43] <dogmatic69> sure
[09:43] <MartijnVdS> !xyproblem
[09:43] <MartijnVdS> !xy
[09:43] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: Which problem are you trying to solve?
[09:43] <dogmatic69> well im just doing if(notEmpty(which foo)){ foo $params} // excuse the fake code
[09:44] <MartijnVdS> what are you trying to accomplish?
[09:44] <dogmatic69> im trying to support something on mac and linux
[09:44] <dogmatic69> so if there is afplay its mac, if not its linux
[09:45] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: easier way:
[09:45] <dogmatic69> or, if there is afplay use afplay, if there is mplayer use it, etc
[09:45] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: case "`uname`" in
[09:45] <MartijnVdS>   Linux)
[09:45] <MartijnVdS>   do_linuxy_thing
[09:45] <MartijnVdS>   ;;
[09:46] <MartijnVdS>   WhateverMacosReturns)
[09:46] <MartijnVdS>   do_mac_thing
[09:46] <MartijnVdS>   ;;
[09:46] <MartijnVdS>   *)
[09:46] <MartijnVdS>   help_dontknow_what_to_do
[09:46] <dogmatic69> ye, that is possible
[09:46] <MartijnVdS>   ;;
[09:46] <MartijnVdS> esac
[09:46] <MartijnVdS> sorry for hte on-channel coding :)
[09:46] <dogmatic69> i think doing which for the player is better as it could support others
[09:47] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: you can have the case fill a variable and use that
[09:56] <andylockran> howdy guys
[09:56] <andylockran> :)
[09:56] <andylockran> popey: beep beep
[09:56] <andylockran> that's £32.43 please - thanks for shopping with andylockran enterprises
[09:56] <gord> that's pretty good value
[09:59] <andylockran> gord: yeah.. setting up scanners to scan the product code of scanners to do asset tags
[10:00] <andylockran> I should have just pointed them all at each other and done a single click to scan them all at once
[10:01] <daubers> andylockran: mirrors?
[10:05] <davmor2> happy friday all
[10:05] <MooDoo> hullo davmor2
[10:06] <andylockran> heylo davmor2
[10:07] <bigcalm> \o/
[10:08] <gord> wish someone would do rfid for all groceries already
[10:08] <bigcalm> rfid?
[10:08] <gord> rfid tags?
[10:08] <bigcalm> Oh
[10:08] <bigcalm> RF ID
[10:08] <daubers> bigcalm: Bit like aphids, but completley different
[10:09] <bigcalm> daubers: my mind could not parse the it any other way than as a word
[10:09] <daubers> heh
[10:38] <davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mukka happy Friday it's here at last man it's been a long week
[10:39] <MooDoo> davmor2, tell me about it, busy weekend for me too.......:S
[10:51] <MooDoo> davmor2, got anything planned?
[10:51] <davmor2> trip to the black country museum and a chillout kill things sunday
[10:52] <bigcalm> Ooo, haven't been to the bcm since I was a child
[10:53] <davmor2> bigcalm: ditto
[10:53] <bigcalm> I liked the barge trip through the tunnel the most
[10:54] <MooDoo> never been myself to be honest, wife is having a garden party say
[10:55] <MooDoo> saturday
[10:55] <bigcalm> Ok, Saturday
[10:56] <oimon> seen that game "beep" they mentioned on OMG? looks fun
[10:57] <oimon> in a world of goo kind of way
[11:16] <shauno> I really wish they'd tell us before they turned the water off.  Letting me fill the kettle first seems like a common decency :/
[11:17] <oimon> toiiet cistern? :P
[11:17] <shauno> this thought has already occured ;)
[11:17] <oimon> probably as clean as the water tank
[11:18] <oimon> actualyl there may be pigeons and rats in the water tank
[11:18] <shauno> in theory, yeah.  but with an ick value that'll leave it until I'm desperate
[11:18] <oimon> scrape ice from the freezer...
[11:19] <AlanBell> kitchen taps are from the rising main, not the water tank
[11:19] <AlanBell> so you don't drink too much dead pigeon
[11:19] <oimon> how about "kitchenette"?
[11:19] <Laney> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/261495_10150252580572473_511097472_7723229_2758211_n.jpg
[11:19] <shauno> you shower in pigeon :)
[11:20]  * oimon doesn't have a water tank, but the office does
[11:20] <oimon> combi boiler ftw
[11:20] <shauno> I dunno if we have a tank, actually
[11:20] <shauno> given that the loft is a bedroom, I can't think where they'd hide it
[11:22] <oimon> in the remaining loft space?
[11:22] <shauno> I'm not sure there is any
[11:24] <shauno> in other news, a job I applied for sent me to a questionaire on surveymonkey that had all the usual interview questions.  never seen that before.  rather awkward.
[11:24] <oimon> why awkward?
[11:25] <shauno> it's odd not being able to get a feel for what they're actually looking for
[11:26] <oimon> is it like a pre-interview filtering?
[11:26] <shauno> I hope so
[11:41] <fvlinux> Hi for all
[11:42] <fvlinux> I was here in the last days because I'm without job...
[11:42] <fvlinux> If somebody have in your company or other company a lot of computers for refurbish
[11:43] <fvlinux> I willing to refurbish some computers for have something to do
[11:45] <fvlinux> if you can help me, please, send me an email vfontanella at gmail dot com
[11:46] <fvlinux> thank's
[11:51] <dwatkins> fvlinux: where are you located?
[11:55] <fvlinux> dwatkins: London
[11:56] <AlanBell> maybe talk to fossbox fvlinux
[11:57] <dwatkins> I know of a company in Doncaster that does computer refurbishment, there are lots of them around.
[11:57] <dwatkins> Most municipal tips probably employ a firm to collect discarded computers for recycling, since there's a fair amount of stuff that can often be re-used in them. I suggest speaking to your local council about it, or look up such firms in the local yellow pages.
[11:58] <fvlinux> dwatkins:I was looking for these companys...but  no answer
[11:59] <fvlinux> may they have fear I start a bussiness :)
[11:59] <dwatkins> perhaps, yes
[11:59] <dwatkins> the firm I visited in Doncaster had about 6 employees, and some of the guys there were really good at repairing PCs, whereas some of them didn't have a clue.
[12:00] <DJones> fvlinux: It would probably be a good idea to send an email to the ubuntu-uk mailing list as well, there was some discussion abouut that type of thing a month or so back (I think)
[12:00] <fvlinux> dwatkins: do you have the name of this company?
[12:01] <fvlinux> Djones: I sent an amail days a go for ubunu-uk mail list
[12:01] <dwatkins> fvlinux: somewhere, yes
[12:02] <fvlinux> but I don't know if moderators have sent my email for /dev/null
[12:03] <popey> <- moderator
[12:03] <fvlinux> popey: do you are moderator of the list? :)
[12:03] <popey> i see no mail waiting
[12:03] <popey> yes
[12:03] <popey> one of them
[12:04] <fvlinux> humm
[12:04] <fvlinux> I don't have recive nothing since that
[12:04] <fvlinux> let me see is the Rigth list...
[12:05] <popey> do you use gmail?
[12:06] <fvlinux> yes
[12:06] <popey> you only see your own mail to lists if somoene replies to it
[12:06] <popey> thats normal for gmail
[12:06] <fvlinux> popey: well...
[12:06] <fvlinux> popey: I'll send again
[12:06] <popey> hang on
[12:06] <popey> what address did you send it from?
[12:07] <fvlinux> vfontanella at gmail dot com
[12:07] <popey> i see no mail from you
[12:07] <popey> and you dont appear to have subscribed to the list
[12:08] <matti> popey: LOL @ http://gscreenlaptop.3dcartstores.com/ ;d
[12:08] <popey> mad isn it?
[12:08] <matti> Do they fold somehow?
[12:08] <matti> ;d
[12:08] <dwatkins> wow, is that real?
[12:09] <matti> dwatkins: So it seems ;d
[12:09] <popey> one screen goes behind the other
[12:09] <DJones> http://gizmodo.com/5346996/gscreens-dual+screen-spacebook-coming-soonish
[12:10] <dwatkins> I'm still waiting to hear about te Noteslate, which is a nifty idea - kinda like a Kindle you can write on.
[12:11] <dwatkins> They made the marketing mistake of promising stuff on facebook and now people are going off in a huff because they are taking longer than they said they would.
[12:11]  * popey promises cookies on facebook
[12:11] <dwatkins> Hooray! We're all going to have cookies!
[12:12] <popey> ruh roh
[12:12] <dogmatic69> \o/ cookies
[12:12] <gord> cookies?
[12:13] <dwatkins> I have no cookies yet, I am enraged!
[12:14] <dwatkins> I shall demonstrate this by posting lots of angry messages on popey's facebook page and point out where I can get alternative cookies from, and that I'm off to buy them instead.
[12:19] <dwatkins> They posted recently on the Noteslate facebook page saying they're still solving problems. It remains to be seen if they actually will have a marketable product.
[12:21] <dogmatic69> i dont see the point of that
[12:22] <dogmatic69> can just download a drawing app for my ipad
[12:23] <AlanBell> but that isn't e-ink display
[12:24] <dogmatic69> but i can switch to a game when im done and get my mails too
[12:24] <dogmatic69> not goign to carry 2x  just to draw on.
[12:24] <AlanBell> that would not be a benefit for some use-cases
[12:25] <BigRedS> I'd like that for appending to things on a kindle
[12:25] <BigRedS> rather than as a genuine dawing thing
[12:25] <BigRedS> appending to? annotating
[12:25] <dogmatic69> if you dont have a ipad/tablet yet, and will never get one, and you want to draw on something that is not paper... maybe
[12:25] <dogmatic69> small market, yes
[12:26] <BigRedS> well, I quite like my kindle for reading from, but none of the advantages apply to a tablet
[12:26] <BigRedS> but it's horrific to type on, so I don't. It'd  be nice to write in the margins exactly as I do a real book
[12:26] <BigRedS> well, almost exactly
[12:27] <AlanBell> dogmatic69: exactly
[12:27]  * dogmatic69 likes 16mil colors and hd res
[12:29] <AlanBell> different pricepoint too
[12:29]  * BigRedS likes easy to read text and long battery life
[12:30] <dogmatic69> 10h on my ipad
[12:30] <AlanBell> it is an etchasketch, they still sell
[12:30] <dogmatic69> mostly use it for reading
[12:33] <BigRedS> a few weeks on my kindle
[12:34] <dwatkins> I would find an e-tablet really handy if I could use it to take down notes whilst on the phone then e-mail myself a copy of the display.
[12:34] <dwatkins> I don't have an ipad, and paper is easy to lose etc.
[12:35] <popey> there are kindle like devices you can write on
[12:36] <popey> the iliad irex was one
[12:40] <fvlinux> popey: Only for note, I have to apologize, I sent an email to ubuntu ony no -uk.
[12:40] <fvlinux> popey: but I sent minutes a go an email to the list.
[12:41] <fvlinux> popey: Thank's for your help. ;)
[14:03] <BigRedS> q
[14:03] <DJones> y?
[14:03] <BigRedS> odd. that was aimed at vim and I both missed vim and the colon
[14:12] <bigcalm> Pondering Harry Potter sometime soon. Not sure if I want to bother with the 3d bit though. Thoughts?
[14:13] <JGJones>  "Harry Potter is about confronting fears, finding inner strength and doing what is right in the face of adversity. Twilight is about how important it is to have a boyfriend." -- Stephen King
[14:13] <JGJones> just saw this quote
[14:15] <BigRedS> yeah, I enjoyed that
[14:18] <bigcalm> :)
[14:18] <bigcalm> I don't have a boyfriend, on noes
[14:20] <MooDoo> made me smile
[14:20] <MooDoo> bigcalm, you can get one, they are quite cheap from tesco :)
[14:20] <bigcalm> Heh
[14:20] <davmor2> bigcalm: I'm thinking I could kill whooper meal right now if that helps?
[14:21] <AlanBell> bigcalm: ask Pendulum
[14:21]  * bigcalm tickles davmor2
[14:21] <bigcalm> Pendulum: *poke*
[14:23] <davmor2> bigcalm: No to 3d until it is actual holograms on a table it's only 2 1/2 d at best and you look a muppet in the glasses :D  hope that helps
[14:23]  * MooDoo can't see 3d :(
[14:23] <davmor2> MooDoo: you could if it was holograms on a table :)
[14:24] <gord> davmor2, what you really want, is a play
[14:24] <gord> very 3d
[14:24] <davmor2> gord: yeah but the special effects suck, unless it's a magic show
[14:25] <MartijnVdS> You want a holodeck?
[14:25] <AlanBell> bigcalm: Pendulum was saying the 3d glasses are like Harry's glasses
[14:25] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: hell yeah
[14:25] <gord> i'm one of the few people that actually like 3d :) glasses are a giant pain though i agree, 3ds does things right
[14:26] <davmor2> gord: agreed the 3ds is way better than the 3d on tellys too
[14:26] <oimon> never seen a 3D film
[14:26] <WelshDragon> Anybody compiled breakpad before? It's failing to link for me: "undefined reference to `dlclose'"
[14:27] <gord> i don't get people who rage about 3d at all, i can understand not wanting glasses and not wanting to pay more for it, but some people seem to be vindictive against 3d, just the every idea is offensive to them somehow
[14:27] <gord> personally i think objects looking solid in my media rather than like paintings is a good thing
[14:27] <oimon> gord:  probably because there is a link between 3D movies and crap story
[14:27] <oimon> and sequels in general tbh
[14:28] <gord> nope thats not it, they go see the movies in 2d instead
[14:29] <directhex> correlation does not imply causation
[14:31] <MartijnVdS> as xkcd proves today :)
[14:34] <JGJones> 3D give me an headache and eyesores - because I watched some "3D" films with subtitles (cinemas now do subtitled films yah) and...urgh...it's not pleasant reading subtitles on a 3D screen.
[14:35] <directhex> JGJones, i don't see how it would be possible. you can't focus on the peripheries with 3d movies
[14:35] <JGJones> directhex, the subtitles obviously are along the bottom of the movie - but with the 3d getting in the way etc, it somehow make reading subtitles a pain.
[14:36] <davmor2> gord: I think it sucks cause it isn't 3d and is a blatant lie to call it such can you see the action from the side or behind? if the answer is no then it isn't 3d it's blurry 2d with shadowing enhancements and optical illusion.
[14:36] <JGJones> And it's usually white.
[14:36] <JGJones> Get a bright scene in the movie?
[14:36] <davmor2> stereographic telly would be better :)
[14:36] <JGJones> Good luck reading that...
[14:36] <JGJones> but I'm not complaining...at least I GET subtitles in a cinema which is something.
[14:37] <AlanBell> hmm, youtube has a 15 minute video limit
[14:37] <AlanBell> what do I do with a 32 minute video?
[14:37] <JGJones> I complain more about the daft and silly times that cinemas put on subtitles (one cinema stopped showing subtitles completely because they said no deafies ever turn up to watch it)
[14:37] <gord> its not really an optical illusion, if its blurry then it was done wrong
[14:37] <JGJones> Not surprisingly because that cinema was showing subtitled films on a monday morning only.
[14:38] <davmor2> gord: no it just means you're sat off center
[14:38] <JGJones> deafies do work, we'll have to take a day off to watch it and who like going to cinemas in the morning? :)
[14:38] <JGJones> but apart from that...it's great to watch films in a cinema
[14:39] <JGJones> gord - I'm sure I read that they do purposely make some part of the screen a bit blurry so that the focus is on what they want you to focus on or something like that
[14:39] <gord> davmor2, sitting off centre wouldn't make it blurry
[14:39] <gord> JGJones, anyone who does that is a terrible cinematographer
[14:39] <JGJones> gord - plenty of them around.
[14:39] <JGJones> gord it's called Hollywoord.
[14:40] <JGJones> \s\Hollywoord\Hollywood
[14:40] <gord> JGJones, yeah but they screw up 2d movies too ;) its not specific to 3d
[14:41] <davmor2> gord: oh it did when I sat straight on it was perfect moved to the side and it was no longer pin sharp
[14:41] <gord> davmor2, sounds like a crap projector
[14:41] <davmor2> gord: Although I don't like it and mock it to hell,  I always tell people to try out the 3d tellys in stores to see how they get on with it
[14:42] <davmor2> gord: sorry I was talking tv not cinema sorry
[14:42] <gord> oh well 3d tv's are notorious for being crap - frankly its tricky to get one that works well
[14:43] <awilkins> JGJones, You could do subtitles that only the deaf people could see with 3D tech
[14:43] <awilkins> JGJones, Only it would have to be a 2D showing
[14:43] <awilkins> You just polarize the subtitles and provide polarized glasses that block them for all the hearing people
[14:44] <davmor2> gord: I don't go to the cinema every since they found it compulsory to deafen the audience :D
[14:44] <awilkins> Hell, yes, what's that about? The guy who adjusts the volume goes "Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk, this one goes up to 'leven, Cleetus!"
[14:46] <oimon> MartijnVdS: i thought today's xkcd was about combining 2 axes :P
[14:46] <awilkins> What, like the Darth Maul model of axe?                                                          ;-)
[14:47] <oimon> ah, one of my favourite bad lines from a film "only sith deal in absolutes"
[14:47] <MartijnVdS> sounds like a dwarf in my D&D party :P
[14:49] <gord> i have a projectionist friend in norway, big film buff, very perfectionist when it comes to providing a good experience. he came over to the uk to watch some movies that came out early here and for a holiday last year. he didn't enjoy how crap most uk cinema's were ;)
[14:49] <MartijnVdS> gord: it's not much better over here
[14:49] <oimon> my issue is the sticky carpet
[14:49] <MartijnVdS> except maybe in "artsy" cinemas with 3-4 seats
[14:50] <MartijnVdS> ok 30-40 but you get the idea
[14:50]  * awilkins wonders if it would work better if the projectionist wasn't imprisoned in the booth but could join the audience and tweak things via an app on his phone
[14:51] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: they don't get paid enough, I think
[14:51] <MartijnVdS> just a one-week crash course as well, instead of a good training
[14:51] <gord> the technology is changing which is making it harder to provide a good experience, its so computer controlled and locked down these days
[14:52] <MartijnVdS> and don't forget that more people are deaf from ipods
[14:52] <awilkins> Ah yes, the whole "if you don't get an auth code from this internet site before changing 3D filters, we'll brick your projector" gubbins
[14:52] <MartijnVdS> and likely to complain that "you should turn up the sound!"
[14:52] <awilkins> It staggers me the number of people I hear irrevocably screwing up their hearing.
[14:53] <oimon> really?
[14:53] <awilkins> Well, OK. MAybe I'm not surprised. I *am* aghast.
[14:53] <oimon> from loud ipods?
[14:54] <oimon> how loud can you actually listen to UUPC without it getting uncomfortable? ;)
[14:54] <awilkins> If your phones sound loud to me on a train, or your car stereo sounds loud to me with your windows closed, you're doing soma damage
[14:54] <oimon> agree
[14:55] <awilkins> I have some in-ear ones that are virtually inaudible even when they're not in your ears
[14:55] <oimon> i don't understand - when i take off my earbuds i can't hear them from 1 foot away, so why can i hear some guys music (every word and chord) from 12 feet away
[14:55] <awilkins> Much more polite, and don't damage your hearing because they block out exterior noise so you don't turn them up
[14:55] <oimon> i think the default ipod earbuds are made inside out
[14:56] <awilkins> The worst of it is, when we're old, everyone will shout at us because they think we went deaf in our 30s
[14:57] <oimon> i do think i have tinitus but i think it's unlreated
[15:06] <popey> Ooo!
[15:07] <JGJones> oimon, I've got tinitus - pain in arse...so play lots of music, helps a lot.
[15:08] <JGJones> awilkins, interesting idea actually. in UK - we get subtitles on screen. In USA, a bit different, one method is that they get a dedicated screen that they place in a cup holder and adjust it so that it's in front of a cinema screen
[15:08] <oimon> gets worse when i'm tired,
[15:08] <JGJones> and you read subtitles on that screen and view the film thru the screen
[15:08] <JGJones> however you must sit in a very specific spot, and not move - it's not very much liked
[15:09] <JGJones> Some cinema's in USA are now experimenting with putting subtitles via an app on a iPad - worst idea ever...I do not want to hold a iPad and read subtitles on that and then look at screen.
[15:09] <awilkins> JGJones, You really need hud-glasses
[15:10] <awilkins> JGJones, It can only be a matter of time until such things are practical
[15:10] <gord> hud glasses with speech recognition software, you could subtitle everything :)
[15:10] <awilkins> "phenomenoscopes" ala Neal Stephenson / Diamond Age
[15:11] <JGJones> http://www.yourlocalcinema.com/ - currently for UK - I use this page for looking up when and where subtitled films are in the local area
[15:13] <awilkins> Since you're not going to get the hearing people to all wear glasses, next stupid idea... maybe you could project subtitles in light and it's anti-light simultaneously... polarize them a little differently and issue polarizing glasses to people to filter out the anti-light component (I have no idea if that's even technically possible, surely minute variations in the screen would totally screw up the wavefronts)
[15:14] <awilkins> Maybe a bit like the way you can see rainbow patterns in laminated glass and plastic while wearing polarized sunglasses
[15:17] <JGJones> awilkins, that's the system I mentioned that's used in USA - https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Rear_Window_Captioning_System
[15:18] <awilkins> JGJones, Pretty klunky but functional
[15:18] <JGJones> it's not very much liked though - ie sometime your head might get in way blocking the subtitles etc, and sometime you must sit "in the correct area" and not move etc
[15:18] <awilkins> JGJones, I imagined it being on the ceiling
[15:19] <JGJones> The subtitles that I watch - are "burnt" into the screen - but the downside is that they are only shown at specific time and dates (ie using yourlocalcinema.com to find out when and where) as cinemas claim hearing folks hate them
[15:19] <awilkins> might work better on the ceiling
[15:20] <JGJones> I'm sure a lot do hate it, but then whenever I go to watch a popular film that's subtitled, there's plenty of hearing folks in the room too and they don't seem too bothered to me.
[15:21] <JGJones> oh well...one day, they'll come up with a perfect solution meaning I can go and watch any film at any time with subtitles that isn't in the way for others :)
[15:21] <JGJones> Hmm interesting...
[15:21] <JGJones> Real time text in jabber
[15:21] <JGJones> http://www.marky.com/realjabber/
[15:22] <awilkins> I saw mention of this, thought it might be a subset of the Wave stuff
[15:23] <awilkins> Not sure I like realtime text chat though
[15:23] <awilkins> Even the "Someone is typing" notifiers have their downsides
[15:24] <JGJones> it was developed by a deafie - as for text relays, realtime is very useful.
[15:25] <JGJones> currently it's a bit like this - IRC - when I type my reply, the other person have to wait until I finish my sentence and send it before the text relay operator can voice it over
[15:25] <awilkins> I'm more concerned with people seeing my typos and that I don't accidentally type "what an ****hole" in the wrong window without the ability to retract it
[15:25] <awilkins> But I do see the plus side
[15:26] <awilkins> I quite liked Wave, which had this feature from the outset
[15:26] <awilkins> Shame it didn't catch on, really
[15:26] <MartijnVdS> whoa.. 80% of the Netherlands is without FM radio coverage atm
[15:26] <MartijnVdS> One tower had a fire and collapsed, another was turned off because of fear of short-circuit of some kind
[15:27] <awilkins> The whole Netherlands is covered by three FM radio towers????
[15:27] <awilkins> THat's what you get for being flat.
[15:27] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: well, 20-ish, but 5 big ones
[15:28] <MartijnVdS> http://radio-tv-nederland.nl/map/Kaart%20met%20alle%20publieke%20nationale%20FM%20zenders%20in%20Nederland.pdf  :)
[15:28] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: but the big towers feed the (repeating) smaller ones
[15:41] <zleap> where are the display settings in ubuntu
[15:41] <bigcalm> Anybody fancy givine me an answer to this? http://cuth.eu/aircon
[15:42] <popey> bigcalm: I paid 400 or so for mine
[15:42] <popey> at a non-brand garage
[15:42] <popey> zleap: what do you mean?
[15:42] <popey> zleap: if you're on 11.04 then press the button in the top left and type "monitor"
[15:42] <bigcalm> popey: did you go for branded parts?
[15:42] <popey> no idea :D
[15:42] <popey> probably not
[15:42] <zleap> hmm
[15:42] <bigcalm> Ah
[15:43] <bigcalm> I have to ask myself; do I want to save £110 or £205?
[15:44] <bigcalm> popey: and thank you for not ansering "yes" to my original question, you're slipping :P
[15:44] <bigcalm> answering
[15:44] <zleap> i think i have fixed it now
[15:45] <zleap> i was looking for something called display,  but its called monitors instead
[15:45] <zleap> i am trying to work out if my monitor is faulty,  or if there is a problem with my graphics card, so to test i want to see if I can display inmage from netbook on to the monitor
[15:50] <suprengr> I recognize some names in list as those who extol Minecraft... is there a safe/legal/honest way for those curious [me ;)] to try it & see if pooter can cope ok?
[15:50] <suprengr> ..downladed the .jar file but thought I'd check 1st.
[15:51] <zleap> in 10.04 how to i switch from using a netbook display to using a external monitor (connected via vga port|) is there a key combination somewhere ?
[15:52] <suprengr> zleap, most netbooks [& laptops] have a blue or green key matching functions on top of 'f' keys... one looks like a monitor moving.
[15:53] <suprengr> ...& throws in sequence to internal, both or external
[15:54]  * suprengr sneaks off to check netbook for better description
[15:57] <suprengr> in my case is ble letters 'Fn' [function'?] and key is f5 showing black screen shaped box with a vertical line next to it then pointing to white shaped screen box
[15:57] <suprengr> ...&... so is the works laptop [coincidence]
[15:58] <suprengr> *blue
[15:59] <JGJones> Hmm interesting...http://androidflip.com/linux-android-asus-eee-pad-transformer-tf101-coming/
[15:59] <JGJones> Ubuntu on a Asus Transformer?
[16:00] <oimon> my next portable device will look like that
[16:00] <oimon> whether the EPD has been replaced ny then i dunno, but seems great
[16:02] <popey> jeez
[16:02] <popey> that article couldn't get any less readable if it was printed upside down
[16:03] <oimon> i had to check if chrome was transalting it from chinese
[16:56] <MartijnVdS> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14168281
[16:58] <shauno> whoops
[16:58] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Cable and satellite aren't affected, and neither are t'interwebs..so I can still listen to my favourite radio program :)
[16:59] <shauno> heh.  no real loss.  FM's dead anyway
[17:00] <MartijnVdS> shauno: over here it's not
[17:00] <MartijnVdS> shauno: DAB never materialized here
[17:00] <shauno> not sure there's much in the way of DAB here either (other than what leaks from the UK)
[17:00] <shauno> they just killed FM by filling it with dross
[17:01] <MartijnVdS> Over here only the publicly-funded channels are good
[17:02] <shauno> I mostly just listen to the world service on the intertubes
[17:03] <MartijnVdS> shauno: vlc http://livestreams.omroep.nl/npo/3fm_vsr-bb
[17:03] <MartijnVdS> shauno: for much Dutch silliness :)
[17:05] <shauno> hm. can't figure out how to open it.  vlc has a UI only a mother could love
[17:05] <MartijnVdS> shauno: hence the command line
[17:08] <MartijnVdS> hm
[17:09] <shauno> you know, dutch almost looks intelligible when written down
[17:09] <MartijnVdS> shauno: so is English for me :)
[17:09] <shauno> on the radio, not so much :)
[17:10] <bigcalm> Just deleted my 4sq account. Feels good to reduce redundant services. Facebook is next if I enough of my friends make it onto Google+
[17:11] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Some British artist once said "Your English is very good." from stage... I replied: "You too!" -- looks of confusion all around :)
[17:16] <shauno> wow.  how many times do you have to ^C to get vlc to die :/
[17:16] <MartijnVdS> 5-6
[17:17] <shauno> I wonder why geoip fails on a large number of addresses I feed
[17:31] <StevenR> hrrm. display corruption on resume from hibernate again :(
[17:31]  * StevenR wonders how to submit a bug report about it (or rather, how to gather useful X11 info)
[17:32] <MartijnVdS> StevenR: ubuntu-bug will attach the Xorg log and dmesg to the bug automatically
[17:32] <StevenR> oh. cool.
[17:32] <MartijnVdS> StevenR: ubuntu-bug display
[17:35] <freenodiz> hi
[17:35] <jacobw> hi
[17:38] <freenodiz> lil question ...i have wine installed.I have some windozee lil apps..example "aleo flash banner creator",that i want it to work with wine...I've been into wine website,and i saw posts about big apps,such as adobe..but no info about running this small  lil apps...another app came to my mind "faststone photo resizer"..
[17:38] <MartijnVdS> freenodiz: you can just try them
[17:38] <MartijnVdS> freenodiz: or find alternative applications that do what you want
[17:39] <StevenR> hrrm. how do I turn off compiz stuff?
[17:39] <MartijnVdS> StevenR: on the login screen select 2d mode/classic mod
[17:39] <freenodiz> MartijnVdS,my i pm you?
[17:39] <freenodiz> may*
[17:39] <MartijnVdS> freenodiz: better to keep things on-channel I think
[17:39] <StevenR> MartijnVdS: I'm in classic mode, but the desktop effects are still turned on :S
[17:39] <freenodiz> ok
[17:39] <jacobw> use alternative apps
[17:40] <jacobw> imagemagick is awesome
[17:40] <MartijnVdS> Lots of programs capable of image resizing
[17:41] <freenodiz> i can't find anything to replace this http://www.aleosoft.com/ nothing good as this one..if i could put such app to work...
[17:41] <freenodiz> i guess i will try it
[17:42] <jacobw> what does it do?
[17:42] <freenodiz> MartijnVdS,you think apps such as this ones,based in flash..would be more likely to have issues?
[17:43] <freenodiz> jacobw,it does flash banners on the fly
[17:43] <jacobw> its impossible to say
[17:43] <jacobw> what do you want to make flash banners for?
[17:43] <freenodiz> im sry,this is the correct link
[17:43] <freenodiz>  http://www.aleosoft.com/flash-intro-banner-maker/index.html
[17:45] <freenodiz> also,i have this app,wich relies on microsoft IIS server...i gues i can install IIS on wine...can i?
[17:45] <jacobw> haha
[17:47] <bigcalm> Eww
[17:47] <freenodiz> i hate the microsof
[17:47] <freenodiz> i really want to get rid of this apps
[17:50] <freenodiz> windows vista is trashing up my brand new hitachi hdd...grrr lol
[17:50] <jacobw> its best to use standardised technologies so you can work with open source software
[17:50] <jacobw> i.e. flash sucks
[17:50] <freenodiz> o.O
[17:51] <freenodiz> java guy?
[17:51] <freenodiz> ahhh,or cause it's just from our last stand ADOBE?
[17:52] <MartijnVdS> freenodiz: it's because Adobe software is bloated, full of security holes, and alternatives (HTML5) are becoming more viable by the day
[17:52] <jacobw> its a closed format that you can only create with a proprietrary software suite
[17:53] <MartijnVdS> and that
[17:53] <freenodiz> well,whatever...I will replace the apps..run ubuntu as main os,and a partition with mac os,to run my adobe apps
[17:53] <MartijnVdS> Your loss ;)
[17:55] <freenodiz> i want to learn a bit of sys admin.Is that recommended i install ubuntu server edition,to practise,instead of the normal one?any particular care?
[17:58] <jacobw> you can install whatever you like on either edition
[17:58] <freenodiz> And,regarding adobe,i think that if you can't win,the best is  join... :D
[17:58] <ali1234> lol, please tell me what the viable open alternative to after effects is
[17:59] <jacobw> so you can install -desktop and add whatever packages you want to learn about
[17:59] <freenodiz> ahh,ok ,ty,so i will go server
[17:59] <freenodiz> thats cool
[18:00] <freenodiz> i really want to learn how to set up the server myself,and stop giving money for this virtuozzo hosts with centos installed..parasites
[18:00] <ali1234> virtua-whizzo sucks
[18:01] <freenodiz> ali1234,good point,how can u replace such apps?fire works?any matches?there's none...
[18:01] <ali1234> lol fireworks is horrible
[18:02] <freenodiz> yeap,i just realize that now...i'm working with drupal app also,and i just fond drush
[18:02] <ali1234> my only experience of it is "that program that steals all the file associations and takes AGES to load"
[18:02] <freenodiz> whattttttttttttttttttttttttt
[18:02] <ali1234> i don't see the point of fireworks
[18:02] <freenodiz> fireworks is horrible,i can see you are not a designer lol
[18:02] <ali1234> it's just a half assed image editor
[18:02] <freenodiz> no way
[18:02] <freenodiz> dont say that
[18:02] <ali1234> why would you use fireworks, when you can use photoshop instead?
[18:02] <freenodiz> errrr
[18:03] <freenodiz> i want go trough that discussion,just google it
[18:03] <freenodiz> mi won't*
[18:03] <freenodiz> lol
[18:03] <freenodiz> i won't*
[18:03] <freenodiz> fireworks is the right arm of a web designer
[18:03] <ali1234> they only keep it around to keep the old macromedia customers happy
[18:04] <ali1234> they should never have bought any of that stuff
[18:04] <freenodiz> not true
[18:04] <freenodiz> not true again
[18:04] <ali1234> adobe has been going downhill since they bought it
[18:04] <ali1234> another company ruined by steven elop
[18:05] <freenodiz> fireworks runs custom scripts,for especific webdesigner needs
[18:05] <freenodiz> like the ubuntu command line :)
[18:06] <freenodiz> I would be so proud if the open source community could produce a package such as adobe,like a mirror
[18:07] <freenodiz> a copy :P
[18:07] <freenodiz> lets hack that code! yayyy
[18:12] <freenodiz> thanks for tips guys,mean time i will be using the adobe in a partition,thanks all tips
[18:12] <freenodiz> MartijnVdS ++
[18:12] <freenodiz> jacobw ++
[18:16] <jacobw> ali1234: brain still working?
[18:38] <Azelphur> does anyone know if sky broadband messes with torrents?
[18:42] <popey> GOOD EVENING ROOM!
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> HOWDY POPEYMAN
[18:42] <Azelphur> AAA!
[18:42]  * Azelphur runs
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: come to the Netherlands, ISPs aren't allowed to mess with traffic anymore here :)
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: by law
[18:42] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: that makes me more tempted to move to the netherlands than it really should do :p
[18:43] <popey> Nice!!
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Everyone speaks English, and Dutch really isn't that hard to learn anyway (I know several people who have learned it)
[18:44] <popey> herdy gerdy
[18:44] <MartijnVdS> popey: yes, but no.
[18:44] <popey> :D
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> popey: try "Goeiemorgen allemaal!"
[18:53] <czajkowski> ▞▀▖ ▌   ▞▀▖ ▌ ▌ ▞▀▖
[18:53] <czajkowski> ▙▄▌ ▌   ▌ ▌ ▙▄▌ ▙▄▌
[18:53] <czajkowski> ▌ ▌ ▌   ▌ ▌ ▌ ▌ ▌ ▌
[18:53] <czajkowski> ▘ ▘ ▀▀▘ ▝▀  ▘ ▘ ▘ ▘
[18:53]  * MartijnVdS waves in czajkowski's direction
[18:54] <jpds> MartijnVdS: But it's not morning.
[18:55] <MartijnVdS> jpds: "Goeienavond allemaal!"
[18:55] <jpds> Gut, ganz gut...
[18:55] <MartijnVdS> jpds: But we say "mogge" all day long
[18:55] <MartijnVdS> jpds: (short for "goeiemorgen")
[18:55] <jpds> MartijnVdS: Probably like moin in Germany.
[18:55] <MartijnVdS> jpds: likely, yes
[19:12] <MartijnVdS> heh http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=Liverpool&daddr=Birkenhead&hl=en&dirflg=w
[19:13] <StevenR> MartijnVdS: oops.
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> StevenR: slightly :)
[19:16] <MartijnVdS> StevenR: I love how it says "12 hours. Or take the bus (30 minute)"
[19:16] <MartijnVdS> 29
[19:16] <StevenR> hehe
[19:17] <bigcalm_lappy486> popey: which brand of ssd have you gone for?
[19:17] <dogmatic69> o/
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> \o
[19:17] <dogmatic69> does anyone know why ubuntu forums take me to login page from google lately?
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: no idea, openid?
[19:19] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: never been registered or needed to before...
[19:19] <dogmatic69> also, you know when google shows a site + 5 form links as one result
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> no idea
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> I don't see a google login page when I go to the forums
[19:20] <dogmatic69> the 5 links i can always use, just not the main one. although cache works
[19:20] <dogmatic69> no.
[19:20] <dogmatic69> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=404441
[19:20] <dogmatic69> it says log in
[19:20] <dogmatic69> but.. i can see it with google cache
[19:21] <DJones> I just get vbullitin login page with that link
[19:21] <dogmatic69> ye
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> same
[19:21] <dogmatic69> exactly
[19:21] <dogmatic69> why
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> maybe it used to be public, but now it's private/locked?
[19:22] <dogmatic69> http://tinyurl.com/6eeebwe
[19:22] <dogmatic69> the top result... no matter what i search. the 'main' one is locked and the sub ones work
[19:22] <dogmatic69> for the ubuntu forums only
[19:23] <popey> bigcalm_lappy486: I have various ones
[19:23] <popey> yes dogmatic69 I know why
[19:23] <bigcalm_lappy486> Ah, ok. Any you would recommend then? :)
[19:23] <dogmatic69> popey: do tell :)
[19:23] <popey> they have made old archived stuff non-accessible
[19:23] <popey> except by google
[19:23] <dogmatic69> ah
[19:23] <dogmatic69> lame
[19:23] <popey> personally I'd wipe it all
[19:23] <dogmatic69> ye
[19:24] <dogmatic69> either its there or not
[19:24] <popey> the old stuff is mostly crap
[19:24] <dogmatic69> very stupid to have the 'main' result for "ubuntu + xyz" locked
[19:24] <popey> meh
[19:24] <dogmatic69> cant you pull some strings :P
[19:25] <bigcalm_lappy486> popey: I assume that one requires an additional kit to fit an ssd into a desktop machine?
[19:25] <popey> yes
[19:25] <popey> most come with them
[19:25] <dogmatic69> bigcalm_lappy486: a resize thing
[19:25] <popey> all of mine did
[19:25] <bigcalm_lappy486> Ah, cool
[19:25] <popey> i can benchmark all 3 if you want
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> popey: so which ones do you have? (SSDs)
[19:26]  * dogmatic69 wants a SSD
[19:26] <bigcalm_lappy486> I'm looking at http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/search/ref=sr_nr_n_0?rh=k%3Assd%2Cn%3A340831031%2Cn%3A%21340832031%2Cn%3A428655031%2Cn%3A430505031&bbn=428655031&keywords=ssd&ie=UTF8&qid=1310757620&rnid=428655031#/ref=sr_nr_p_72_0?rh=k%3Assd%2Cn%3A340831031%2Cn%3A%21340832031%2Cn%3A428655031%2Cn%3A430505031%2Cp_36%3A428446031%2Cp_72%3A419153031&bbn=430505031&keywords=ssd&ie=UTF8&qid=1310757629&rnid=419152031 and tryi
[19:26] <bigcalm_lappy486> ng to comprimise between speed/size/cost
[19:26] <popey> woah
[19:26] <popey> Corsair CSSD-F12
[19:26] <bigcalm_lappy486> Sorry :)
[19:26] <MartijnVdS> Long URL is long
[19:26] <popey> CSSD-F115GB2-A
[19:27] <popey>  INTEL SSDSA2M120
[19:27] <popey> ^^^ those
[19:27] <dogmatic69> i was thinking 1VTX30G 30 GB Vertex Series
[19:27] <bigcalm_lappy486> This is to go in my windows machine for work. So I won't be on steam until it lets you install to other drives
[19:28] <popey> i have steam on mine
[19:28] <popey> nothing else tho ☺
[19:28] <bigcalm_lappy486> Heh
[19:28] <bigcalm_lappy486> Not even minecraft?
[19:28] <popey> what do you need for work?
[19:28] <popey> a text editor surely :D
[19:28] <popey> yeah, mc too
[19:28] <bigcalm_lappy486> Haha
[19:28] <bigcalm_lappy486> :P
[19:29] <bigcalm_lappy486> MS Office, Adobe CS3, PhpEd, most web browsers, sqlyog,
[19:30] <bigcalm_lappy486> Reeeeeeeeealy tempting to dual boot the workstation if I do put a new drive in it
[19:30] <bigcalm_lappy486> It's my external hardware that stops me from using anything other than Windows
[19:31] <popey> "hardware"
[19:32] <bigcalm_lappy486> USB dvi graphics card to run a 3rd screen and a skype adaptor box that connects to my desk phone
[19:33] <popey> does the usb gfx card not work in ubuntu>?
[19:34] <bigcalm_lappy486> It's not reported to do so. TBH, never tried :)
[19:35]  * bigcalm_lappy486 takes the lappy to it
[19:36] <bigcalm_lappy486> Well, it doesn't _just work_
[19:36] <bigcalm_lappy486> I shall research
[19:37] <popey> what does lsusb say it is?
[19:37] <bigcalm_lappy486> It's a conv-usb2dvi
[19:37] <bigcalm_lappy486> Erm
[19:38] <popey> usb id ?
[19:38] <bigcalm_lappy486> Bus 002 Device 005: ID 17e9:0138 Newnham Research
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm_lappy486: check the "udlfb" device driver
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> and xserver-xorg-video-displaylink
[19:43] <bigcalm_lappy486> MartijnVdS: ta for the info
[19:43] <bigcalm_lappy486> I shall play with it over the weekend
[19:43] <bigcalm_lappy486> Now, it's time to watch In the Line of Fire
[19:48] <shauno> interesting.  get_iplayer's stopped working for me :(
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> let me chec
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> k
[19:50] <MartijnVdS> "Connecting..."
[19:50] <MartijnVdS> ERROR: rtmp server sent error
[19:50] <shauno> that's the one
[20:28] <shauno> oh, it's working now.  musta caught auntie with her bloomers down
[20:30] <shauno> (for a while there, I was terrified they'd pegged me for a foreigner)
[20:34] <liam> i need a lil help please
[20:38] <StevenR> liam: don't ask to ask, just ask :)
[20:39] <liam> i am having issues with ubuntu 11.04 and the laptop an it doesnt spin long enough letting the system get too hot
[20:42] <liam> around 80 85 degrees
[20:51] <Guest87896> y
[20:51] <brobostigon> ?
[20:52] <Guest87896> hi
[20:52] <brobostigon> hi
[20:53] <Guest87896> i am just trying the channel
[20:54] <brobostigon> ok.
[20:59] <Guest87896> Well what is the classical way of using IRC... with Xchat or Xchat-Gnome? they both look sort of the same...
[21:04] <Azelphur> hmm, on my server (ubuntu server) grinds to a halt whenever any disk i/o goes on, ie a file copy
[21:04] <Azelphur> any way to fix it?
[21:07] <suprengr> Azelphur, http;//smack_it_with_a_hammer.com ;)
[21:07] <Azelphur> \o/
[21:17] <shauno> MartijnVdS: fixed it!  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmqsP6hV5lw
[22:12] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Developer Summit Sponsorship Now Open - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/07/15/ubuntu-developer-summit-sponsorship-now-open-2/
[22:13] <StevenR> urrgh. I really want to fix that first paragraph in the approval application (I have the technical ability, just haven't worked out how to make it right yet :) )
[22:37] <ali1234> AlanBell: remember how you asked everyone to test the new wiki, and everyone said "launchpad openid doesn't work", well it still doesn't work
[22:40] <StevenR> ali1234: works for me :)
[22:40] <StevenR> oh. new wiki?
[22:44] <StevenR> ali1234: sorry, thought you meant the approval app page (my brain is full of trying to fix some of the wording)... is there a new wiki?
[22:44] <ali1234> that's what i mean
[22:44] <ali1234> login takes several minutes
[22:45] <ali1234> although it does work eventually
[22:45] <StevenR> that's not the same as "doesn't work"
[22:45] <ali1234> yes it is
[22:45] <ali1234> unless taking 5 minutes to login is intentional
[22:47] <ali1234> are you doing a lot of edits?
[22:47] <ali1234> cos i just went through and fixed all the typos and spelling mistakes, of which there are many
[22:47] <StevenR> ali1234: I did a bunch last night
[22:49] <StevenR> ali1234: trying to re-work the paragraphing in that huge opening chunk of text. It just feels like too much text in one chunk
[22:49] <ali1234> the section headings make no sense
[22:49] <ali1234> it's like some one inserted them purely to break up the text
[22:53] <StevenR> ali1234: I'm not so much good at content, but I'm good at making text work (spelling, punctuation, grammar), though I wasn't looking for typos last night, too tired yesterday
[23:06] <shauno> heh, every time I see trcy.mi I think traverse city, but I know it's not
[23:08] <shauno> hm, or is it.  db says cadillac, but friends in petoskey show as trcy too  *mumbles*
[23:12] <Azelphur> ali1234: you about? :)
[23:12] <Azelphur> having an issue with my server, every time it runs a disk intensive cron job (irc stats generation, mysql backup, etc) it makes the entire server grind to a halt
[23:12] <Azelphur> isn't disk I/O scheduling supposed to make that not happen?
[23:13] <ali1234> i suppose
[23:13] <Azelphur> any ideas on fixing it? :D
[23:13] <ali1234> get more ram
[23:13] <Azelphur> how would that help o.o
[23:13] <shauno> stop using the disks :)
[23:13] <ali1234> well it doesn't seem to happen to me any more since i got 16gb
[23:14] <Azelphur> seems like a not so good solution :(
[23:14] <ali1234> i suspect it is something to do with the retardedly aggressive disk caching and swappiness on ubuntu
[23:14] <ali1234> something along the lines of:
[23:16] <ali1234> read file, put it in disk cache, disk cache is full, swap out some program memory, write it to disk
[23:16] <hamitron> I recall something making the install take ages with ext4 partitions
[23:16] <ali1234> this turns what should be a sequential read into a series of short read/write/read/write etc in totally different parts of the disk
[23:16] <ali1234> basically killing performance
[23:16] <Azelphur> maybe switching swap off?
[23:16] <ali1234> nice one
[23:17] <ali1234> switch swap off, or reduce swappiness value of the kernel
[23:17] <Azelphur> ok
[23:17] <Azelphur> I know about both, what you think would be best?
[23:17] <ali1234> or buy memory 2x the size of your /usr partition
[23:18] <Azelphur> can't really buy memory since it's a rented server
[23:18] <Azelphur> unless I feel like paying +$241352313... /mo
[23:19] <Azelphur> applications themselves are only using about 80-90% of the RAM
[23:19] <Azelphur> but that would obviously explain the push
[23:21] <Azelphur> ali1234: so, disable swap or lower swappiness, what's best? :P
[23:21] <hamitron> I'd do swapiness first
[23:21] <Azelphur> I know the defaults 60, so what are we changing it to, 10?
[23:22] <hamitron> baby steps ftw
[23:22] <hamitron> just see what it does
[23:22] <hamitron> :)
[23:22] <Azelphur> swappiness=0 tells the kernel to avoid swapping processes out of physical memory for as long as possible
[23:22] <Azelphur> owait we want 0.
[23:22] <popey> Azelphur: i would actually do something else, like io nice the intensive jobs
[23:23] <Azelphur> popey: I can see that that might be a good idea, but that said I really want the applications to stay in memory period
[23:23] <Azelphur> the server runs game servers, so we absolutely don't want to swap out the game servers memory
[23:23] <Azelphur> that's always going to result in bad.
[23:23] <ali1234> io nice does nothing
[23:23] <popey> ok
[23:24] <hamitron> lag just cost me 3 hearts :/
[23:25] <Azelphur> there we go, swappiness 0 that should fix that one :)
[23:29] <ikonia> Azelphur: if the games servers are in use, it won't swap them out to disk
[23:30] <ikonia> Azelphur: it only swaps out applications to ram if they are unused
[23:30] <ali1234> ha ha ha, yeah right
[23:30] <ali1234> where unused is defined as "hasn't executed any code for longer than 0.1 microseconds"
[23:30] <Azelphur> ikonia: well, they was all in use full of people using high amounts of CPU at the time :P
[23:30] <Azelphur> haha
[23:30] <hamitron> I guess another good thing may be to offload some of the scripts and things running on that server
[23:30] <ikonia> Azelphur: ok, so why are you messing with swap then ?
[23:30] <Azelphur> ikonia: because ali1234 told me to and it makes sense :P
[23:30] <Azelphur> feel free to make other suggestions :D
[23:31] <ikonia> Azelphur: how would changing swapiness help you ?
[23:31] <ali1234> it will stop his game servers being swapped out when something does a long sequential read of a file
[23:31] <Azelphur> ikonia: because if what ali1234 says is correct and it's swapping the game servers out when there's heavy disk I/O, turning swappiness to 0 should stop that
[23:32] <ikonia> ali1234: but if it needs to swap them out to do the read - it will crash him machine as it's out of ram
[23:32] <ali1234> ikonia: it does not need to swap to do the read
[23:32] <Azelphur> ^
[23:32] <ikonia> ali1234: it does if there is no ram
[23:32] <ikonia> something has to give
[23:32] <ali1234> no, wrong
[23:32] <ali1234> that's completely idiotic
[23:32] <ikonia> no, correct
[23:32] <ali1234> it might need to swap to do the malloc
[23:32] <bigcalm_lappy486> popey: pondering this http://www.amazon.co.uk/OCZ-Vertex-2-5-inch-Internal-Solid/dp/B003NE5JCE/
[23:32] <ikonia> if you have no ram
[23:32] <ali1234> but malloc is not affected by swappiness
[23:33] <hamitron> can you force zero ram use for copying files?
[23:33] <hamitron> or any io
[23:33] <ikonia> ali1234: no, of course that's not effected by swappiness, but that's what I'm saying
[23:33] <ikonia> why is the games server being swapped to disk ?
[23:34] <ali1234> you are saying that read(2) is going to fail if swappiness is 0 and there's no free ram, but there is free swap
[23:34] <ali1234> which is quite obviously nonsense
[23:34] <ikonia> ali1234: no, that's not what I'm saying
[23:34] <ikonia> ali1234: I'm saying if there is no ram left, then stopping it to swap to do disk will not help
[23:34] <ali1234> swappiness does not disable swap
[23:35] <ikonia> no, it disables the application from being swapped out to disk
[23:35] <ali1234> it disables "hey let's swap out everything in favour of disk cache and interrupt the long sequential read with lots of extremely slow and tiny write operations in the process"
[23:35] <ikonia> in the example you're giving
[23:35] <ali1234> no, it doesn't do that either
[23:36] <ikonia> ah, so you're not trying to actually stop it swapping out to disk, you're trying to stop it proritising disk over it
[23:36] <ali1234> there is literally no way under linux to prevent an application from being swapped out except for disabling swap partitions entirely
[23:46] <AlanBell> hello UK
[23:47] <bigcalm_lappy486> Hello Docklands
[23:54] <ali1234> so i just got a android phone and i heard some people here have them
[23:54] <ali1234> how do i make it not show every single person who has ever emailed me in the contacts?
[23:55] <hamitron> a hammer to the screen would do it
[23:55] <hamitron> ;)
[23:55] <ali1234> i dont think i'm going to get on with this
[23:56] <AlanBell> go to gmail and delete them in contacts there
[23:56] <ali1234> but i don't want to delete them from gmail
[23:56] <ali1234> i might want to email them at some point in the future
[23:56] <ali1234> i just don't ever want to telephone them
[23:57] <ali1234> this sucks
[23:58] <ali1234> google maps is slooooooow
[23:58] <ali1234> and no skype and no google talk support
[23:58] <AlanBell> in the contacts display settings show only contacts with phone numbers
[23:58] <ali1234> why do people buy these things?
[23:59] <AlanBell> there is skype