/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/16/#ubuntu-ops.txt

bazhangMINT users casting themselves as victims. I can see it.00:49
bazhangat one point MINT was using automatix or its descendant as the official codec getter00:50
bazhangperhaps spawn rather than descendant00:51
bazhang* [vibhav] (~vibhav___@59.94.135.61): Vibhav Pant aka "Infinitybot"00:58
bazhangsame user?00:58
=== gpc is now known as IdleOne
bazhang<philipballew> can i have a split screen in gnome terminal01:30
bazhangpossible?01:30
IdleOnedon't think so01:32
bazhangI better take this to -meta01:32
=== jrib is now known as Guest71999
bazhangonly ops allowed in meta?02:04
bazhangerr -meta02:04
IdleOneI don't think anybody really knows about that channel02:07
bazhangaugh02:08
bazhangusing ancient hardware and expecting miracles02:08
bazhanghow can one *not * see a huge factoid like gnome3 three consecutive times05:30
rwwbecause they're being stupid deliberately05:31
bazhangand a PM in french. quelle surprise05:32
rwwI'm getting kinda tired of how often "pr0n" comes up in #ubuntu-offtopic.05:38
bazhangI find #defocus to be less troll infested than there05:39
rwwLess troll-infested, but less moderated. So the smaller number of trolls make more noise :|05:39
bazhangget ryanxb on that one05:49
bazhangthought the mac makeover was fairly invasive05:57
trijntje_oneiricGot spam from ~lili@85.103.192.99 while joining07:31
rwwI'm looking into it, thanks.07:31
trijntje_oneiriccool, thanks07:32
ikoniaNewss = onjoin spam07:36
ikoniadoing the same in #debian07:37
ikonianewss was using 08:22 -!- Newss [~lili@85.103.192.99] has joined #ubuntu07:37
rwwAs I mentioned elsewhere, they weren't doing it for me. Perhaps I am special.07:38
ikoniaI got it07:38
rwwfun07:38
rwwbefore or after people started complaining about it?07:38
ikonianow, I just did a test07:39
ikonia08:36 -!- Irssi: Starting query in freenode with Newss07:39
ikonia08:36 <Newss> hi 13 year asia girls sexy camshow http://to.ly/aMjP07:39
ikonia08:36 <Newss> hi 13 year asia girls sexy camshow http://to.ly/aMjP07:39
ikonia08:38 -!- Newss [~lili@85.103.192.99]07:39
ikonia08:38 -!-  ircname  : %lili07:39
rwwah, just got it in #debian07:39
ikoniamy current timestamps is 8:3907:39
ikoniaand gone from debian too07:40
ikoniatrijntje_oneiric: thanks for the info07:40
ikoniahello lotuspsychje07:48
ikoniatrijntje_oneiric: we ask that you leave the channel now that your business is done so we can assist other people07:48
lotuspsychjewas just checking out, im already leaving07:48
ikonialotuspsychje: checking out ?07:49
ikonialotuspsychje: do you need something ?07:49
lotuspsychjereported spam to an op07:49
ikonialotuspsychje: ahh, the user newss ?07:49
lotuspsychjeyeah07:49
ikoniahe's been delt with, thank you07:49
trijntje_oneiricikonia, sure, didnt see that in the topic. Thanks for your help!07:49
ikoniatrijntje_oneiric: thanks for yours07:49
lotuspsychjeok tnx good day07:49
ubottuFloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (john_exodus` appears to be flooding, but emergency mode is on)08:02
ikoniahas anyone read this08:03
ikoniahttp://www.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/201104-794508:03
ikoniawhat an utter joke - Canonical are listing hardware as certified08:03
ikoniabut then making the point that "standard ubuntu installs may not work"08:03
ikonia@mark #ubuntu Pwnna complaining about bugs - but won't report them himself08:10
ubottuThe operation succeeded.08:10
ikoniabazhang: as a suggestion, I've found asking to pastebin the output of sudo apt-get update works better, as that captures what repos are active, which includes repos which may not be  in sources.list08:54
bazhangikonia, nice one, will do08:54
ikoniabazhang: it's only a thought, but I've been caught out with sources.list that are fine, but repos are configured elsewhere08:55
ikonialots of bad repos there09:00
bazhangbut the ubuntu one is one where its choking, ie the gpg09:01
ikonialooks like dns09:02
elkyask for the hosts file?09:27
ikonialong resolved I believe09:27
elkyyeah i noted the timestamp after i said that09:29
ikoniatime to go for me, laters09:30
elkyciao09:30
Myrttinnnngggh09:52
Myrttianyone else looking at -ot?09:53
elkywill look now10:13
elkyoh, already dealt with10:13
IdleOnejrib: bluegoon asking about ATI in -ot and aspect ratio in #u11:10
IdleOneconfuzzled me. didn't mean to toss them back into your lap :)11:10
elkyIdleOne, <bluegoon> Er, hey chaps, I have a giant red "1" in the top left of my screen, its in a red box.11:10
elkythat's the kind of comments he was making in #u, i interpreted them as g+ trolling as well.11:11
IdleOnehmm11:11
jribah11:11
IdleOneok so it isn't me :)11:11
Myrttitop left != top right11:11
elkyMyrtti, yeah, but that takes looking twice11:13
elkywhen all he was crapping on about was a red box with a 1 in it.11:13
Myrttiand I'm the best person to remind about the difference11:13
elkyhehe11:13
MyrttiVasen means left and Oikea means right in Finnish11:13
Myrttithe old joke is that I'm one of those persons who should allowed to drive Volvos only11:13
elkyhehehe11:14
Myrttias they've got the reminder of which is left and right on the steering wheel11:14
popeyhah11:28
bazhang* [Johny_Mnemonic] (~john@88.128.22.183): John   was +q earlier, changed IP and rejoined12:40
IdleOnebazhang: ^ is back12:45
IdleOne* Johny_Mn1monic (~john@tmo-020-94.customers.d1-online.com) has joined #ubuntu12:46
bazhangIdleOne, yep, got him in PM now. hopefully he responds this time.12:47
oCeando you think this is a common problem? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debconf/+bug/34946912:59
ubottuUbuntu bug 349469 in debconf (Ubuntu) "debconf: DbDriver "config": /var/cache/debconf/config.dat is locked by another process: Resource temporarily unavailable" [Medium,Triaged]12:59
oCeanthe list with duplicates is the longest I've seen :(12:59
bazhang<pooltable> .  ..  Mac OS X Snow Leopard.vmdk13:19
bazhangthought that was illegal13:19
oCeanI've heard/read so before13:20
bazhang<fjorgynn> käften  <-- shut up13:22
oCeanoh nice13:22
elkyits only illegal if it's not on apple hardware.13:22
elkyiirc, ianal.13:22
oCeanso, on vbox on ubuntu is nog legal?13:23
oCean*not13:23
elkynot unless it's on non-apple hardware. we need not ask that.13:23
oCeanright13:23
elkylicencing is hard ;)13:24
bazhanghttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/39159/is-it-possible-to-run-osx-in-a-virtual-machine13:24
bazhangits vmware, and server is legal, but desktop is not13:25
elkyNote: Virtualization is legal only on Apple hardware. – Eonil Jun 24 at 16:4613:25
elkywe also tolerate discussion of virtualised microsoft environments, which is not explicitly legal in all circumstances either.13:26
elkyI think it's one of those areas where unless it's immediately obvious there's illegal activity, we have to assume best of the situation.13:29
bazhanghe showed us the vmdk as being snow leopard desktop13:30
bazhang<pooltable> .  ..  Mac OS X Snow Leopard.vmdk13:31
elkyAnd had you not explicitly decided to investigate, we, as non-lawyers, would not have known. Do we now ban every mention of desktop osx in #u?13:33
bazhangthere was no investigation. I knew it was illegal, and he posted it there in the channel.13:33
elkyDo we now ban every mention of desktop osx in #u?13:34
elkyBecause I've certainly over the past 5 years seen many mentions.13:34
bazhangbeing lawyers is beside the point. discussing warez, etc is offtopic on freenode13:35
bazhangthere's even a factoid for illegal.13:36
elkywas he advertising a service of distributing that vmdk?13:36
bazhangbut if hackintosh is now a-okay, then we need to change the factoids13:36
elkydiscussing warez != "i have an osx vm"13:37
bazhang"some illegal activity we'll turn a blind eye to"13:37
ikoniahackintosh is not ok13:37
oCeanI agree, I don't like to give opportunity to discuss warez etc13:37
* elky gives up trying to get a straight answer and tries to match timestamps.13:37
bazhangnot apple hardware = illegal for desktop. simple.13:38
elkywhat. was. the context. that. you are getting riled up over?13:39
elkybecause outlawing mentioning a mere mention of vms that are not linux is going to be very very tedious.13:40
oCeanthe context is "help me conver Mac OS X Snow Leopard.vmdk to .vdi, so I can run it on my ubuntu13:41
oCean*convert13:41
elkyoCean, thanks.13:42
bazhangelky, is this your personal view, or a judgment as a member of the IRCC13:42
elkyThat's what I was after. That is clearly out of bounds.13:42
bazhangok13:43
elkybazhang, you seem to think those two categories of view are mutually exclusive.13:43
elkyso what you were actually wanting to say was "that was a discussion of piracy". Because it was a discussion of piracy.13:45
oCeanit's very common that he will change his question to,  Oh but I meant how to convert SomeRandomAppliance.vmdk to vdi13:49
elkyand if he does, we just need to remind him that it's illegal to do it for mac/win when we give the information.13:50
elkyand that the channel is logged if need be.13:51
bazhang<exutux> 15:53 <suzy_> hi girls sexy show cam? http://webcams.de.nu   <-- onjoin spam he reported13:56
bazhangnothing when I /cycle13:59
oCeanwhat can we do? We need multiple reports?14:01
bazhangI suppose. I PM'd them and no answer yet14:01
elkysometimes they have cycling prevention built in.14:03
elkynothing for a new connection14:04
bazhang2nd complaint about suzy_14:20
oCeanI saw14:21
ikoniasame ip range as the other guy I banned14:21
ikoniasame ip range, same channels14:21
ikoniaI'd take that as the same issue14:21
bazhangikonia, what test? to ID backtrack users, that is14:30
bazhanghang in the backtrack channel?14:30
ikoniabazhang: nothing concreate, just a message on the other channel,14:30
bazhangaha14:30
ikoniathere we go14:30
bazhangdoes backtrack have some identifiers in their sources.list? or the kernel?14:33
ikoniayeah, some really annoying stuff too, things like xchat responds with ubuntu14:34
ikoniaalthough the repos should point at the backtrack ones14:34
ikoniamaybe worth a look at apt-get updae14:34
ikoniaupdate14:34
bazhangpm from skaperen14:39
ikoniaoh ?14:40
oCeanme too14:40
bazhangclaiming victimhood14:43
bazhangcybervolfe looks like running ubuntu, unless I am missing something from that pastebin14:44
ikoniaagreed14:45
oCeanit's not his first entry in BT (skaperen I mean) 40756 kicked by Ikonia for same kind of discussion14:45
bazhangsays he is banned here, cannot join14:46
ikoniaI don't thats actually his apt-get update14:46
ikoniahe's in India yet his fastest mirror is USA ?14:46
bazhangnope not banned here. skaperen that is14:48
bazhang<Skaperen> I went to #ubuntuanswers14:53
bazhangclaims he is forwarded there14:53
oCeanhuh14:53
bazhangand surprise; that is not a registered channel14:54
bazhang<Skaperen> in the mean time you or someone (but not oCean) might want to revise or append the guidelines to handle things like this15:05
oCeanappend what?15:05
ikoniaor he may want to ammend his attitude15:05
ikoniaI suggest that's more realistic15:05
bazhangappend his special situation so he's right and we're wrong, I guess15:06
bazhangnow he claims his server is out of sync, so cannot join here15:06
oCeanout of sync!15:07
ikoniaclose the window and have a drink,15:08
ikoniathis sort of nonsense will waste the day15:08
oCeanI closed the pm long ago. He can report here, and we can discuss his "special situation"15:10
ubottuIn ubottu, shah_ said: Skype is working great, I am trying to make work bluetooth headphone15:40
rwwikonia: apparently, it's enough for Canonical that customized images with additional drivers work. As someone who dislikes proprietary hardware drivers, I will be skipping anything that says "(Pre-installed only)" on the side ;)16:08
ikoniarww: I actually think it's really really poor16:18
ikoniathat's like me cerifying my mac for Sega Master system OS as long as you install all the extra bits to make it work16:18
gordwell no its not17:05
gordif someone sold a mac that had the master system OS on it with all the bits you needed, then it is17:05
ikoniaexpand ?17:05
ikoniaok, I still feel it's very poor that caonical are certifying hardware for...."special" ubuntu,17:06
ikoniagord: a valid point17:06
gordif its stuff you just can't get your hands on, that sucks, that shouldn't be certified, but i'm guessing its restricted drivers and such you can download17:07
gordi mean if we restricted it to the base system then most nvidia machines couldn't be certified17:07
ikoniagord: it has no notes on it, it bascially says stock ubuntu may not work17:07
ikoniawhich for me is nuts to certify for ubuntu...but it doesn't work17:07
ikoniathats just me, I think the whole project is getting sloppy17:07
ikoniaI don't think nvidia or ati should be certified unless there is a supported package in the main repo17:58
iois this the place to report inconsistencies with ubottu?18:43
oCeanhi io18:44
oCeanwhat is the actual issue?18:44
iohi :-)18:44
io19:42 <io> tor18:44
io19:42 <ubottu> Tor is a program to route connections through several servers for anonymity. It is not in Ubuntu's repositories. For setup info, see option (2)  of https://www.torproject.org/docs/debian.html.en | To use Tor on freenode, see !tor-sasl18:44
io19:42 <io> info tor18:44
io19:42 <ubottu> tor (source: tor): anonymizing overlay network for TCP. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.2.1.30-1 (natty), package size 1016 kB,  installed size 2104 kB18:44
ioit's clearly in the repositories18:44
oCeanright18:45
ioso I think the factoid needs to be fixed?18:45
oCeanprobably an old factoid still18:45
oCeanyes, we'll fix it18:45
oCeanthanks for the input18:45
ionothing major, I just noticed - thank you18:46
ioo/18:46
oCeanUnfortunately https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tor is outdated, and even for 11.04 still pointing to the deb.torproject.org repository18:57
oCeanbut since natty it's back in universe18:57
oCeanos2mac: ping19:02
oCeanos2mac: may I remind you of your previous visit? You left us with "sorry... I need to delete this room from my auto start menu... I don't have an issue"19:03
rww!-tor19:05
ubottutor has no aliases - added by LjL on 2007-11-04 23:20:20 - last edited by rww on 2011-01-02 03:39:4819:05
oCeansuggested rewording:19:06
oCeanTor is a program to route connections through several servers for anonymity. Since 11.04 it's back in the repositories (Universe). For previous versions see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tor | To use Tor on freenode, see !tor-sasl19:06
oCeanok?19:06
rww!tor =~ s/not in Ubuntu's repositories/in Ubuntu's repositories, but the Tor Project recommends against using distribution packages for security reasons/19:06
ubottuI'll remember that rww19:06
oCeanthe community/Tor link is a bit poor though19:06
oCean?19:06
oCeanis that the case?19:06
rwwYes. See the URL linked in the factoid.19:07
rwwhrm, not that factoid.19:08
oCeanbut it's back in universe19:08
rwwoh, yes that factoid. you removed it when you reworded19:08
oCean https://www.torproject.org/docs/debian.html.en19:08
oCeanI read that19:09
rww"Do not use the packages in Ubuntu's universe."19:09
rwwit's in bold ;)19:09
oCeanyes but is it true19:09
oCeanI mean, isn't that an outdated statement?19:09
oCeanafter hardy it was not in the repositories19:09
rwwIn my opinion as a Tor user, Tor users should be using the Tor repositories for Tor.19:09
oCeanbut it returned in natty19:09
rwwThis conflicts with my opinion as a channel op, which is that we shouldn't recommend non-Ubuntu repositories, but the first ended up overriding the latter.19:10
oCeanhmm.. in that case "unmaintained and out of date" I don't like it being available through universe anyway19:11
rwwNeither do I or the Tor devs ;)19:11
rwwand Tor is not as... forceful... as Mozilla, and thus doesn't get its packages upgraded to new major versions in SRUs :|19:12
rww(incidentally, I believe that Tor appearing and disappearing from Ubuntu is a direct result of it appearing and disappearing from Debian, which tends to get even more out of date than Ubuntu)19:14
rww(also incidentally, this is one of the very few pieces of software that I don't feel !latest reasonably applies to, because I am skeptical of our distros' tendency to keep up to date with security vulnerabilities, and the stakes are very high for something like Tor)19:15
oCeanok, I understand. Good enough reason to have the factoid mention this19:19
* rww ponders tracking down some tor devs and having a chat about the current state of Tor things on Ubuntu19:19
rwwbecause we /could/ be backporting this stuff in security updates, and I'm wondering whether anyone's trying to do this.19:20
oCeanboth provide 0.2.1.30-1 atm19:23
rwwoCean: I'm going to grab the relevant packages when I get home and see who the points of contact are for this.19:25
oCeangreat!19:25
rwwbecause if Debian's Tor packages are acceptable now, then this really shouldn't be too difficult to hash out. I suspect someone just needs to grease wheels a bit.19:26
oCeansounds cool, would be nice if it only needs a little grease :)19:27
rwwubottu: bug 69740719:37
ubottuLaunchpad bug 697407 in tor (Ubuntu) "Please update Tor in older versions of Ubuntu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/69740719:37
rwwoCean ^^19:37
rwwso apparently I'm wrong again: there allegedly is an SRU exception already19:38
oCeanaha19:40
rwwalthough now that I think about it... there's Tor packaging for 6.06, 8.04, 11.04, and 11.10. 11.04 and 11.10 are up-to-date with Debian and the Tor project repository. 6.06 and 8.04 are EOL on non-servers, and I doubt that Tor's on the supported packages list for server 5-year support.19:42
oCeanSo, we're already in sync, and nothing need be done for those older releases?19:43
rww6.06 and 8.04 are probably screwed as far as support goes (I'm trying to find the list of packages we'19:44
rwwre still doing updates to for them)19:44
rwwso torproject.org is probably better than nothing (assuming it's been keeping them up to date). 10.04 and 10.10 don't have Tor packaging in our repositories, so those users have to use torproject.org.19:45
rww11.04 and onwards may be okay to just use our repositories, and from the look of the version numbers, even if you do add torproject.org's repositories it'll use Ubuntu's package, because the torproject.org package has a ~natty+1 attached to the version number19:46
rwwone question though is what Ubuntu (and Debian, for that matter) are doing as far as security updates for Tor packages in our repositories. If we're not updating them and torproject.org is...19:47
rwwyup, torproject.org's staying up to date for 6.06 and 8.04.19:47
oCeanwhat's the ~natty+1 ?19:49
oCeanin the version nr19:49
rwwoCean: effectively, 1.2.3~something is a lower version number than 1.2.3 as far as apt-get's concerned. It looks like the packages were backported to older releases and that tag added so the package would be replaced by a newer version from Ubuntu's repositories when the user upgrades.19:50
rwwwell, "newer"19:50
rww"same actual version or newer", I guess19:51
rwwoh, duh, 6.06 is EOL completely now. so we can cross that off the list.19:51
oCeanright, so there might not even be any grease required?19:52
oCeanwheels are turning already :)19:52
rwwon Ubuntu's side of things, we might be covered if Tor's getting updated appropriately already. I need to check that. On Tor's side of things, if we're doing things right, we need to tell Tor that so the page can be changed.19:53
rwwanyways, back to my day job. ttyl.19:53
oCeanrww: thanks man19:53
Davieyrww: ~ means less.  1~foo < 120:01
oCeanless is more!20:02
oCeanmore or less20:02
oCeanDaviey: so what does ~natty+1 mean?20:03
DavieyoCean: For an SRU, a package cannot be higher than the version in the next release.  You can't add a binary which is already released in a newer release.20:06
Daviey(the convention is growing to use the release version number)20:07
DavieyExample, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Update_the_packaging20:08
Davieybackports follow the ~distro1 convention.20:08
oCeanahh, thanks20:09
oCeanbazhang / elky pooltable returned with his vmdk/vdi question I've send him a link after telling him: we cannot help you with illegal activities such as trying to run mac images on other than mac hardware.21:13
oCeanall I've heard from him since, was "i understand"21:13
topylii hope this is not too wrong22:30
rwwif +qing trolls in #ubuntu-offtopic is wrong, I don't want to be right22:31
topyliheh22:31
Myrttiword22:31
topylii have to go to bed. could someone remove the quiet in good time? (no hurry)22:31
topylimeh, i can do it tomorrow myself22:32
topyliah, he left22:32
rwwand came back22:34
rwwand I think that's an attempt at quiet evasion.22:34
topylidunno, didn't change anything, just returned22:35
bazhang<ronq--> the people on ubuntu-offtopic are bad like all others.22:36
topylinot banned after all22:36
bazhanglet me guess who got +q22:36
topylii will leave this to you now and go to bed. i'm in sleep already anyway22:36
topylinight22:37
bazhangoCean, thanks!22:37
rwwtopyli: they changed IP addresses22:39
rwwbazhang: if memory serves, mernilio was ban evading.22:40
bazhangrww, mernilio is always an issue, ban evading or not.22:40
rwwand indeed they are, so they're gone.22:42
bazhangwfm22:42
rwwoCean: https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-commits/2011-July/033754.html22:43
rwwoCean: On Tor's side of things, that notice is staying there until "there is some kind of track record indicating [Ubuntu] have learned sanity". On Ubuntu's side of things, I'm going to go look at how we can start that track record ;)22:44
rww!away > lemons22:48
rwwah, looks like happyaron's way ahead of me. bug 413657. I'll give this a rest, then :)22:54
ubottuLaunchpad bug 413657 in tor (Ubuntu) "Please sync tor 0.2.1.26-6 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/41365722:54
rww(and someone named ioerror that hasn't been on freenode in months :|)22:55
rww(oh, they're on OFTC. yay)23:02
tonyyarussorww: ioerror used to always be in the WordPress channel.23:48

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