[00:49] <bazhang> MINT users casting themselves as victims. I can see it.
[00:50] <bazhang> at one point MINT was using automatix or its descendant as the official codec getter
[00:51] <bazhang> perhaps spawn rather than descendant
[00:58] <bazhang> * [vibhav] (~vibhav___@59.94.135.61): Vibhav Pant aka "Infinitybot"
[00:58] <bazhang> same user?
 can i have a split screen in gnome terminal
[01:30] <bazhang> possible?
[01:32] <IdleOne> don't think so
[01:32] <bazhang> I better take this to -meta
[02:04] <bazhang> only ops allowed in meta?
[02:04] <bazhang> err -meta
[02:07] <IdleOne> I don't think anybody really knows about that channel
[02:08] <bazhang> augh
[02:08] <bazhang> using ancient hardware and expecting miracles
[05:30] <bazhang> how can one *not * see a huge factoid like gnome3 three consecutive times
[05:31] <rww> because they're being stupid deliberately
[05:32] <bazhang> and a PM in french. quelle surprise
[05:38] <rww> I'm getting kinda tired of how often "pr0n" comes up in #ubuntu-offtopic.
[05:39] <bazhang> I find #defocus to be less troll infested than there
[05:39] <rww> Less troll-infested, but less moderated. So the smaller number of trolls make more noise :|
[05:49] <bazhang> get ryanxb on that one
[05:57] <bazhang> thought the mac makeover was fairly invasive
[07:31] <trijntje_oneiric> Got spam from ~lili@85.103.192.99 while joining
[07:31] <rww> I'm looking into it, thanks.
[07:32] <trijntje_oneiric> cool, thanks
[07:36] <ikonia> Newss = onjoin spam
[07:37] <ikonia> doing the same in #debian
[07:37] <ikonia> newss was using 08:22 -!- Newss [~lili@85.103.192.99] has joined #ubuntu
[07:38] <rww> As I mentioned elsewhere, they weren't doing it for me. Perhaps I am special.
[07:38] <ikonia> I got it
[07:38] <rww> fun
[07:38] <rww> before or after people started complaining about it?
[07:39] <ikonia> now, I just did a test
[07:39] <ikonia> 08:36 -!- Irssi: Starting query in freenode with Newss
[07:39] <ikonia> 08:36 <Newss> hi 13 year asia girls sexy camshow http://to.ly/aMjP
[07:39] <ikonia> 08:36 <Newss> hi 13 year asia girls sexy camshow http://to.ly/aMjP
[07:39] <ikonia> 08:38 -!- Newss [~lili@85.103.192.99]
[07:39] <ikonia> 08:38 -!-  ircname  : %lili
[07:39] <rww> ah, just got it in #debian
[07:39] <ikonia> my current timestamps is 8:39
[07:40] <ikonia> and gone from debian too
[07:40] <ikonia> trijntje_oneiric: thanks for the info
[07:48] <ikonia> hello lotuspsychje
[07:48] <ikonia> trijntje_oneiric: we ask that you leave the channel now that your business is done so we can assist other people
[07:48] <lotuspsychje> was just checking out, im already leaving
[07:49] <ikonia> lotuspsychje: checking out ?
[07:49] <ikonia> lotuspsychje: do you need something ?
[07:49] <lotuspsychje> reported spam to an op
[07:49] <ikonia> lotuspsychje: ahh, the user newss ?
[07:49] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[07:49] <ikonia> he's been delt with, thank you
[07:49] <trijntje_oneiric> ikonia, sure, didnt see that in the topic. Thanks for your help!
[07:49] <ikonia> trijntje_oneiric: thanks for yours
[07:49] <lotuspsychje> ok tnx good day
[08:03] <ikonia> has anyone read this
[08:03] <ikonia> http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/201104-7945
[08:03] <ikonia> what an utter joke - Canonical are listing hardware as certified
[08:03] <ikonia> but then making the point that "standard ubuntu installs may not work"
[08:10] <ikonia> @mark #ubuntu Pwnna complaining about bugs - but won't report them himself
[08:54] <ikonia> bazhang: as a suggestion, I've found asking to pastebin the output of sudo apt-get update works better, as that captures what repos are active, which includes repos which may not be  in sources.list
[08:54] <bazhang> ikonia, nice one, will do
[08:55] <ikonia> bazhang: it's only a thought, but I've been caught out with sources.list that are fine, but repos are configured elsewhere
[09:00] <ikonia> lots of bad repos there
[09:01] <bazhang> but the ubuntu one is one where its choking, ie the gpg
[09:02] <ikonia> looks like dns
[09:27] <elky> ask for the hosts file?
[09:27] <ikonia> long resolved I believe
[09:29] <elky> yeah i noted the timestamp after i said that
[09:30] <ikonia> time to go for me, laters
[09:30] <elky> ciao
[09:52] <Myrtti> nnnngggh
[09:53] <Myrtti> anyone else looking at -ot?
[10:13] <elky> will look now
[10:13] <elky> oh, already dealt with
[11:10] <IdleOne> jrib: bluegoon asking about ATI in -ot and aspect ratio in #u
[11:10] <IdleOne> confuzzled me. didn't mean to toss them back into your lap :)
[11:10] <elky> IdleOne, <bluegoon> Er, hey chaps, I have a giant red "1" in the top left of my screen, its in a red box.
[11:11] <elky> that's the kind of comments he was making in #u, i interpreted them as g+ trolling as well.
[11:11] <IdleOne> hmm
[11:11] <jrib> ah
[11:11] <IdleOne> ok so it isn't me :)
[11:11] <Myrtti> top left != top right
[11:13] <elky> Myrtti, yeah, but that takes looking twice
[11:13] <elky> when all he was crapping on about was a red box with a 1 in it.
[11:13] <Myrtti> and I'm the best person to remind about the difference
[11:13] <elky> hehe
[11:13] <Myrtti> Vasen means left and Oikea means right in Finnish
[11:13] <Myrtti> the old joke is that I'm one of those persons who should allowed to drive Volvos only
[11:14] <elky> hehehe
[11:14] <Myrtti> as they've got the reminder of which is left and right on the steering wheel
[11:28] <popey> hah
[12:40] <bazhang> * [Johny_Mnemonic] (~john@88.128.22.183): John   was +q earlier, changed IP and rejoined
[12:45] <IdleOne> bazhang: ^ is back
[12:46] <IdleOne> * Johny_Mn1monic (~john@tmo-020-94.customers.d1-online.com) has joined #ubuntu
[12:47] <bazhang> IdleOne, yep, got him in PM now. hopefully he responds this time.
[12:59] <oCean> do you think this is a common problem? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debconf/+bug/349469
[12:59] <oCean> the list with duplicates is the longest I've seen :(
 .  ..  Mac OS X Snow Leopard.vmdk
[13:19] <bazhang> thought that was illegal
[13:20] <oCean> I've heard/read so before
 käften  <-- shut up
[13:22] <oCean> oh nice
[13:22] <elky> its only illegal if it's not on apple hardware.
[13:22] <elky> iirc, ianal.
[13:23] <oCean> so, on vbox on ubuntu is nog legal?
[13:23] <oCean> *not
[13:23] <elky> not unless it's on non-apple hardware. we need not ask that.
[13:23] <oCean> right
[13:24] <elky> licencing is hard ;)
[13:24] <bazhang> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/39159/is-it-possible-to-run-osx-in-a-virtual-machine
[13:25] <bazhang> its vmware, and server is legal, but desktop is not
[13:25] <elky> Note: Virtualization is legal only on Apple hardware. – Eonil Jun 24 at 16:46
[13:26] <elky> we also tolerate discussion of virtualised microsoft environments, which is not explicitly legal in all circumstances either.
[13:29] <elky> I think it's one of those areas where unless it's immediately obvious there's illegal activity, we have to assume best of the situation.
[13:30] <bazhang> he showed us the vmdk as being snow leopard desktop
 .  ..  Mac OS X Snow Leopard.vmdk
[13:33] <elky> And had you not explicitly decided to investigate, we, as non-lawyers, would not have known. Do we now ban every mention of desktop osx in #u?
[13:33] <bazhang> there was no investigation. I knew it was illegal, and he posted it there in the channel.
[13:34] <elky> Do we now ban every mention of desktop osx in #u?
[13:34] <elky> Because I've certainly over the past 5 years seen many mentions.
[13:35] <bazhang> being lawyers is beside the point. discussing warez, etc is offtopic on freenode
[13:36] <bazhang> there's even a factoid for illegal.
[13:36] <elky> was he advertising a service of distributing that vmdk?
[13:36] <bazhang> but if hackintosh is now a-okay, then we need to change the factoids
[13:37] <elky> discussing warez != "i have an osx vm"
[13:37] <bazhang> "some illegal activity we'll turn a blind eye to"
[13:37] <ikonia> hackintosh is not ok
[13:37] <oCean> I agree, I don't like to give opportunity to discuss warez etc
[13:37]  * elky gives up trying to get a straight answer and tries to match timestamps.
[13:38] <bazhang> not apple hardware = illegal for desktop. simple.
[13:39] <elky> what. was. the context. that. you are getting riled up over?
[13:40] <elky> because outlawing mentioning a mere mention of vms that are not linux is going to be very very tedious.
[13:41] <oCean> the context is "help me conver Mac OS X Snow Leopard.vmdk to .vdi, so I can run it on my ubuntu
[13:41] <oCean> *convert
[13:42] <elky> oCean, thanks.
[13:42] <bazhang> elky, is this your personal view, or a judgment as a member of the IRCC
[13:42] <elky> That's what I was after. That is clearly out of bounds.
[13:43] <bazhang> ok
[13:43] <elky> bazhang, you seem to think those two categories of view are mutually exclusive.
[13:45] <elky> so what you were actually wanting to say was "that was a discussion of piracy". Because it was a discussion of piracy.
[13:49] <oCean> it's very common that he will change his question to,  Oh but I meant how to convert SomeRandomAppliance.vmdk to vdi
[13:50] <elky> and if he does, we just need to remind him that it's illegal to do it for mac/win when we give the information.
[13:51] <elky> and that the channel is logged if need be.
 15:53 <suzy_> hi girls sexy show cam? http://webcams.de.nu   <-- onjoin spam he reported
[13:59] <bazhang> nothing when I /cycle
[14:01] <oCean> what can we do? We need multiple reports?
[14:01] <bazhang> I suppose. I PM'd them and no answer yet
[14:03] <elky> sometimes they have cycling prevention built in.
[14:04] <elky> nothing for a new connection
[14:20] <bazhang> 2nd complaint about suzy_
[14:21] <oCean> I saw
[14:21] <ikonia> same ip range as the other guy I banned
[14:21] <ikonia> same ip range, same channels
[14:21] <ikonia> I'd take that as the same issue
[14:30] <bazhang> ikonia, what test? to ID backtrack users, that is
[14:30] <bazhang> hang in the backtrack channel?
[14:30] <ikonia> bazhang: nothing concreate, just a message on the other channel,
[14:30] <bazhang> aha
[14:30] <ikonia> there we go
[14:33] <bazhang> does backtrack have some identifiers in their sources.list? or the kernel?
[14:34] <ikonia> yeah, some really annoying stuff too, things like xchat responds with ubuntu
[14:34] <ikonia> although the repos should point at the backtrack ones
[14:34] <ikonia> maybe worth a look at apt-get updae
[14:34] <ikonia> update
[14:39] <bazhang> pm from skaperen
[14:40] <ikonia> oh ?
[14:40] <oCean> me too
[14:43] <bazhang> claiming victimhood
[14:44] <bazhang> cybervolfe looks like running ubuntu, unless I am missing something from that pastebin
[14:45] <ikonia> agreed
[14:45] <oCean> it's not his first entry in BT (skaperen I mean) 40756 kicked by Ikonia for same kind of discussion
[14:46] <bazhang> says he is banned here, cannot join
[14:46] <ikonia> I don't thats actually his apt-get update
[14:46] <ikonia> he's in India yet his fastest mirror is USA ?
[14:48] <bazhang> nope not banned here. skaperen that is
 I went to #ubuntuanswers
[14:53] <bazhang> claims he is forwarded there
[14:53] <oCean> huh
[14:54] <bazhang> and surprise; that is not a registered channel
 in the mean time you or someone (but not oCean) might want to revise or append the guidelines to handle things like this
[15:05] <oCean> append what?
[15:05] <ikonia> or he may want to ammend his attitude
[15:05] <ikonia> I suggest that's more realistic
[15:06] <bazhang> append his special situation so he's right and we're wrong, I guess
[15:06] <bazhang> now he claims his server is out of sync, so cannot join here
[15:07] <oCean> out of sync!
[15:08] <ikonia> close the window and have a drink,
[15:08] <ikonia> this sort of nonsense will waste the day
[15:10] <oCean> I closed the pm long ago. He can report here, and we can discuss his "special situation"
[16:08] <rww> ikonia: apparently, it's enough for Canonical that customized images with additional drivers work. As someone who dislikes proprietary hardware drivers, I will be skipping anything that says "(Pre-installed only)" on the side ;)
[16:18] <ikonia> rww: I actually think it's really really poor
[16:18] <ikonia> that's like me cerifying my mac for Sega Master system OS as long as you install all the extra bits to make it work
[17:05] <gord> well no its not
[17:05] <gord> if someone sold a mac that had the master system OS on it with all the bits you needed, then it is
[17:05] <ikonia> expand ?
[17:06] <ikonia> ok, I still feel it's very poor that caonical are certifying hardware for...."special" ubuntu,
[17:06] <ikonia> gord: a valid point
[17:07] <gord> if its stuff you just can't get your hands on, that sucks, that shouldn't be certified, but i'm guessing its restricted drivers and such you can download
[17:07] <gord> i mean if we restricted it to the base system then most nvidia machines couldn't be certified
[17:07] <ikonia> gord: it has no notes on it, it bascially says stock ubuntu may not work
[17:07] <ikonia> which for me is nuts to certify for ubuntu...but it doesn't work
[17:07] <ikonia> thats just me, I think the whole project is getting sloppy
[17:58] <ikonia> I don't think nvidia or ati should be certified unless there is a supported package in the main repo
[18:43] <io> is this the place to report inconsistencies with ubottu?
[18:44] <oCean> hi io
[18:44] <oCean> what is the actual issue?
[18:44] <io> hi :-)
[18:44] <io> 19:42 <io> tor
[18:44] <io> 19:42 <ubottu> Tor is a program to route connections through several servers for anonymity. It is not in Ubuntu's repositories. For setup info, see option (2)  of https://www.torproject.org/docs/debian.html.en | To use Tor on freenode, see !tor-sasl
[18:44] <io> 19:42 <io> info tor
[18:44] <io> 19:42 <ubottu> tor (source: tor): anonymizing overlay network for TCP. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.2.1.30-1 (natty), package size 1016 kB,  installed size 2104 kB
[18:44] <io> it's clearly in the repositories
[18:45] <oCean> right
[18:45] <io> so I think the factoid needs to be fixed?
[18:45] <oCean> probably an old factoid still
[18:45] <oCean> yes, we'll fix it
[18:45] <oCean> thanks for the input
[18:46] <io> nothing major, I just noticed - thank you
[18:46] <io> o/
[18:57] <oCean> Unfortunately https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tor is outdated, and even for 11.04 still pointing to the deb.torproject.org repository
[18:57] <oCean> but since natty it's back in universe
[19:02] <oCean> os2mac: ping
[19:03] <oCean> os2mac: may I remind you of your previous visit? You left us with "sorry... I need to delete this room from my auto start menu... I don't have an issue"
[19:05] <rww> !-tor
[19:06] <oCean> suggested rewording:
[19:06] <oCean> Tor is a program to route connections through several servers for anonymity. Since 11.04 it's back in the repositories (Universe). For previous versions see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tor | To use Tor on freenode, see !tor-sasl
[19:06] <oCean> ok?
[19:06] <rww> !tor =~ s/not in Ubuntu's repositories/in Ubuntu's repositories, but the Tor Project recommends against using distribution packages for security reasons/
[19:06] <oCean> the community/Tor link is a bit poor though
[19:06] <oCean> ?
[19:06] <oCean> is that the case?
[19:07] <rww> Yes. See the URL linked in the factoid.
[19:08] <rww> hrm, not that factoid.
[19:08] <oCean> but it's back in universe
[19:08] <rww> oh, yes that factoid. you removed it when you reworded
[19:08] <oCean>  https://www.torproject.org/docs/debian.html.en
[19:09] <oCean> I read that
[19:09] <rww> "Do not use the packages in Ubuntu's universe."
[19:09] <rww> it's in bold ;)
[19:09] <oCean> yes but is it true
[19:09] <oCean> I mean, isn't that an outdated statement?
[19:09] <oCean> after hardy it was not in the repositories
[19:09] <rww> In my opinion as a Tor user, Tor users should be using the Tor repositories for Tor.
[19:09] <oCean> but it returned in natty
[19:10] <rww> This conflicts with my opinion as a channel op, which is that we shouldn't recommend non-Ubuntu repositories, but the first ended up overriding the latter.
[19:11] <oCean> hmm.. in that case "unmaintained and out of date" I don't like it being available through universe anyway
[19:11] <rww> Neither do I or the Tor devs ;)
[19:12] <rww> and Tor is not as... forceful... as Mozilla, and thus doesn't get its packages upgraded to new major versions in SRUs :|
[19:14] <rww> (incidentally, I believe that Tor appearing and disappearing from Ubuntu is a direct result of it appearing and disappearing from Debian, which tends to get even more out of date than Ubuntu)
[19:15] <rww> (also incidentally, this is one of the very few pieces of software that I don't feel !latest reasonably applies to, because I am skeptical of our distros' tendency to keep up to date with security vulnerabilities, and the stakes are very high for something like Tor)
[19:19] <oCean> ok, I understand. Good enough reason to have the factoid mention this
[19:19]  * rww ponders tracking down some tor devs and having a chat about the current state of Tor things on Ubuntu
[19:20] <rww> because we /could/ be backporting this stuff in security updates, and I'm wondering whether anyone's trying to do this.
[19:23] <oCean> both provide 0.2.1.30-1 atm
[19:25] <rww> oCean: I'm going to grab the relevant packages when I get home and see who the points of contact are for this.
[19:25] <oCean> great!
[19:26] <rww> because if Debian's Tor packages are acceptable now, then this really shouldn't be too difficult to hash out. I suspect someone just needs to grease wheels a bit.
[19:27] <oCean> sounds cool, would be nice if it only needs a little grease :)
[19:37] <rww> ubottu: bug 697407
[19:37] <rww> oCean ^^
[19:38] <rww> so apparently I'm wrong again: there allegedly is an SRU exception already
[19:40] <oCean> aha
[19:42] <rww> although now that I think about it... there's Tor packaging for 6.06, 8.04, 11.04, and 11.10. 11.04 and 11.10 are up-to-date with Debian and the Tor project repository. 6.06 and 8.04 are EOL on non-servers, and I doubt that Tor's on the supported packages list for server 5-year support.
[19:43] <oCean> So, we're already in sync, and nothing need be done for those older releases?
[19:44] <rww> 6.06 and 8.04 are probably screwed as far as support goes (I'm trying to find the list of packages we'
[19:44] <rww> re still doing updates to for them)
[19:45] <rww> so torproject.org is probably better than nothing (assuming it's been keeping them up to date). 10.04 and 10.10 don't have Tor packaging in our repositories, so those users have to use torproject.org.
[19:46] <rww> 11.04 and onwards may be okay to just use our repositories, and from the look of the version numbers, even if you do add torproject.org's repositories it'll use Ubuntu's package, because the torproject.org package has a ~natty+1 attached to the version number
[19:47] <rww> one question though is what Ubuntu (and Debian, for that matter) are doing as far as security updates for Tor packages in our repositories. If we're not updating them and torproject.org is...
[19:47] <rww> yup, torproject.org's staying up to date for 6.06 and 8.04.
[19:49] <oCean> what's the ~natty+1 ?
[19:49] <oCean> in the version nr
[19:50] <rww> oCean: effectively, 1.2.3~something is a lower version number than 1.2.3 as far as apt-get's concerned. It looks like the packages were backported to older releases and that tag added so the package would be replaced by a newer version from Ubuntu's repositories when the user upgrades.
[19:50] <rww> well, "newer"
[19:51] <rww> "same actual version or newer", I guess
[19:51] <rww> oh, duh, 6.06 is EOL completely now. so we can cross that off the list.
[19:52] <oCean> right, so there might not even be any grease required?
[19:52] <oCean> wheels are turning already :)
[19:53] <rww> on Ubuntu's side of things, we might be covered if Tor's getting updated appropriately already. I need to check that. On Tor's side of things, if we're doing things right, we need to tell Tor that so the page can be changed.
[19:53] <rww> anyways, back to my day job. ttyl.
[19:53] <oCean> rww: thanks man
[20:01] <Daviey> rww: ~ means less.  1~foo < 1
[20:02] <oCean> less is more!
[20:02] <oCean> more or less
[20:03] <oCean> Daviey: so what does ~natty+1 mean?
[20:06] <Daviey> oCean: For an SRU, a package cannot be higher than the version in the next release.  You can't add a binary which is already released in a newer release.
[20:07] <Daviey> (the convention is growing to use the release version number)
[20:08] <Daviey> Example, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Update_the_packaging
[20:08] <Daviey> backports follow the ~distro1 convention.
[20:09] <oCean> ahh, thanks
[21:13] <oCean> bazhang / elky pooltable returned with his vmdk/vdi question I've send him a link after telling him: we cannot help you with illegal activities such as trying to run mac images on other than mac hardware.
[21:13] <oCean> all I've heard from him since, was "i understand"
[22:30] <topyli> i hope this is not too wrong
[22:31] <rww> if +qing trolls in #ubuntu-offtopic is wrong, I don't want to be right
[22:31] <topyli> heh
[22:31] <Myrtti> word
[22:31] <topyli> i have to go to bed. could someone remove the quiet in good time? (no hurry)
[22:32] <topyli> meh, i can do it tomorrow myself
[22:32] <topyli> ah, he left
[22:34] <rww> and came back
[22:34] <rww> and I think that's an attempt at quiet evasion.
[22:35] <topyli> dunno, didn't change anything, just returned
 the people on ubuntu-offtopic are bad like all others.
[22:36] <topyli> not banned after all
[22:36] <bazhang> let me guess who got +q
[22:36] <topyli> i will leave this to you now and go to bed. i'm in sleep already anyway
[22:37] <topyli> night
[22:37] <bazhang> oCean, thanks!
[22:39] <rww> topyli: they changed IP addresses
[22:40] <rww> bazhang: if memory serves, mernilio was ban evading.
[22:40] <bazhang> rww, mernilio is always an issue, ban evading or not.
[22:42] <rww> and indeed they are, so they're gone.
[22:42] <bazhang> wfm
[22:43] <rww> oCean: https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-commits/2011-July/033754.html
[22:44] <rww> oCean: On Tor's side of things, that notice is staying there until "there is some kind of track record indicating [Ubuntu] have learned sanity". On Ubuntu's side of things, I'm going to go look at how we can start that track record ;)
[22:48] <rww> !away > lemons
[22:54] <rww> ah, looks like happyaron's way ahead of me. bug 413657. I'll give this a rest, then :)
[22:55] <rww> (and someone named ioerror that hasn't been on freenode in months :|)
[23:02] <rww> (oh, they're on OFTC. yay)
[23:48] <tonyyarusso> rww: ioerror used to always be in the WordPress channel.