[02:51] yet another announcement: http://shimmerproject.org/2011/07/a-good-weekend-in-window-managers/ [14:12] Good Morning [14:12] We have images, and they are mostly working [14:13] Xubuntu community meeting today at 22:00 UTC [14:14] mr_pouit: I will track down didrocks or RAOF tonite/tomorrow to try and get the live sessions fixed [14:18] o hai [14:18] no need to track didrocks [14:18] no? [14:19] yeah, we're only waiting for the x11-common upload [14:19] okay [14:19] Thanks [14:19] I caused a bit of a stir in the release meeting about it [14:20] yeah, well Robert replied with not so useful comments two days ago, so I won't wait for him to reply again and do differently [14:20] I saw that [14:22] I was talking about bug 804734, which they sent upstream [14:22] Launchpad bug 804734 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Please ship 60xdg_path-on-session like gdm" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804734 [14:23] I want the fix now, now when they get the upstream to push it back to us [14:23] s/now/not [14:24] A fix that goes upstream to xorg doesn't mean we will even see it this release [14:26] ah ok. For this one, didrocks convinced RAOF to ship it in xorg, so yeah, you can try to track him (= RAOF) down [14:28] btw, I received your mails, but no time to reply yet :> [14:30] I sent a new one this morning. I have to fix my own mistake about the teams [14:30] project lead picks from Xubuntu Team for the council, right? [14:31] so, to get a council set up eventually, I have to build the Xubuntu Team properly first [14:32] I am trying to get this stuff straightened out the best we can, before it is time to pick another leader. [15:03] bug 811909, lightdm won't allow the user to login selecting name. Must select "Other..." and enter that user name, then password. [15:03] Error: Launchpad bug 811909 could not be found [21:24] Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 35 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings [21:24] :D [21:34] charlie-tca, i downloaded the desktop from torrent.ubuntu.com but there is only alpha2 and no current :( [21:36] i can't do testings if i dont have the current image XD [21:36] right [21:37] daily images are not in torrent [21:37] you have to grab them from http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/ [21:37] yeah i figured that out, yeap [21:37] charlie-tca: Desktop fixed and working? [21:37] * charlie-tca thinks zsync... ;) [21:37] no [21:38] it installs, though, from the menu [21:38] then you have to pick "other..." as user, enter the real user name and password [21:38] In that case, I was right! I'm 18 before the CDs are fixed! :P [21:38] or you can not login [21:42] woah since alpha2 about 50% of the image has changed [21:45] of course. That changed as soon as they got an image [21:45] (it did take over a week to get an image, too) [21:46] its nice to know you people work so hard :D [21:47] You can tell that by just looking at the final Xubuntu! [21:52] * micahg tries to get the indicator merge done before the meeting [21:53] Thanks, micahg [21:57] huhu nice, so we'll have something to say for "development" :P [21:58] ugh, I didn't realize it was going to be this messy... [21:58] heh, mr_pouit can always say "we did a lot of small things that made life easier on the users" [21:58] mr_pouit: maybe you should take this, I don't entirely understand everything that xubuntu_exclude-modules.patch does [21:58] or maybe "that will make life easier for the users" [21:59] Um, meeting in 2 minutes, right? [21:59] * micahg tries the other merge quickly [21:59] I actually got libgtk2-notify-perl ported to libnotify4 so the only thing holding libnotify1 on th CD is transmission [22:00] which we need for torrents? [22:00] yeah, but it's in the desktop set, they haven't done anything with it this cycle though [22:00] Is everybody for a meeting today? [22:00] pushy, pushy [22:01] #startmeeting [22:01] Meeting started Sun Jul 17 22:01:18 2011 UTC. The chair is charlie-tca. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell. [22:01] Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting. [22:01] :D [22:01] The full agenda for today's meeting is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings [22:02] we will be following : [22:02] * Old business [22:02] * Team updates [22:02] * Packaging & Development [22:02] * Bug Triage & Testing [22:02] * Website & Marketing [22:02] * Artwork [22:02] * Documentation [22:02] * Announcements [22:02] * Governance structure [22:02] * Any Other Business [22:02] and, in the interests of being common, we will try [22:02] Reminder: please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing. If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait. [22:02] again [22:03] [topic] === Old Business === [22:03] TOPIC: === Old Business === [22:03] * micahg to find what Ubuntu-desktop does with java in restricted-extras - Carried Forward [22:03] any change? [22:04] nope [22:04] this week? [22:04] GridCube: go ahead and put together your best effort top 10, please [22:04] charlie-tca: yes [22:05] :) ok will do it as soon as i get pass my exams [22:05] [ACTION] GridCube to put together a top 10 FAQ for the website [22:05] ACTION: GridCube to put together a top 10 FAQ for the website [22:05] * start ML discussion on panels, reviews of current panels, launchers on panels, etc - Carried Forward [22:05] (that be next week) [22:05] any action of the reviews? [22:06] charlie-tca, can i ask what "Carried Foward" means? [22:06] means we did not do it yet [22:06] oh, okay [22:06] ochosi: go ahead and remove app finder from the launcher. Seems to be the only change I know of [22:07] * All teams need to review website content - Carried Forward [22:07] * insure http://xubuntu.org/contribute is up to date for each team [22:07] * send updates to the xubuntu-devel mailing list [22:07] * charlie-tca AT ubuntu DOT com [22:07] * post them and give us the URL [22:07] charlie-tca: what exactly do you mean? [22:07] * submit a bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website [22:07] Have done all the reviews? [22:08] you wanted a review of the launchers. Let's remove app finder from the launcher panel [22:08] ah ok, well but you're aware of the fact that appfinder and xfrun will be merged? [22:08] (or are already merged in fact iirc) [22:08] I don't know if anyone else uses it, but I find snapshot to be most helpful in the panel [22:09] what will that merge do? [22:09] https://wiki.xfce.org/design/appfinder [22:09] doesn't xfrun get run with Alt+F2? [22:09] i know it's a bit of a long read [22:09] charlie-tca: what's snapshot? a screen capture app? [22:09] yup [22:09] yes, but now with alt+f2 you'll get something almost as cool as gnome-do [22:10] you can start apps with autocomplete and you can expand the small launcher to get categories [22:10] I have no idea what gnome-do is, so that didn't help [22:10] ochosi: that's coming in xfce 4.10 right? [22:10] i already tried it here (think the separate git-branch recently got merged) [22:10] how is that going to matter if application finder is in the launcher panel? [22:10] beardygnome: well that's not really how xfce's release policy is working. they're doing individual components' releases now [22:11] so the merged app will be in 11.10? [22:11] charlie-tca: it's just a bit of a different application now and i wanted to ask whether those doing the review where taking this into account, that's all [22:11] beardygnome: that's what i'd assume [22:12] cool, i might then be able to ditch gnome-do.... [22:12] right now, to take a screenshot, you open Menu -> Accessories -> Screenshot. I find it much more convenient to click a launcher on my panels [22:12] charlie-tca: what about "Print Screen"? [22:12] ochosi: you never sent the email to the ML for the review [22:13] I can never remember the keypresses I want. I guess screenshot is fine the way it is [22:13] charlie-tca: yeah sorry, forgot about that [22:13] * start ML discussion on panels, reviews of current panels, launchers on panels, etc - Carried Forward [22:13] charlie-tca: "Print Screen" opens screenshot for me [22:13] well, then we are doing the review, right/ [22:13] which is quicker than a panel button imo [22:14] without knowing all the ins and outs of the chagnes, and referring to something I never use, it is really hard to discuss intelligently. [22:14] I do remember something about xfrun gonna be more like gnome-do, now. IT made as much sense then as it does now. [22:15] without knowing gnome-do, that was a pretty worthless message to me [22:15] charlie-tca: i don't mind if the majority thinks appfinder should be removed from there. i just wanted to let you know about the changes and if you (or those who are doing the review) want to know the details i guess it'd be best to read the wikipage i linked to [22:15] any other changes we want to make to the panels? [22:16] any questions so far? [22:16] ochosi: sounds like it is all good [22:16] k [22:16] Has everyone reviewed the website? [22:17] no, not really [22:17] charlie-tca: are there plans to add more news items? [22:17] Let's get that done this week, please [22:17] yes, if someone writes them, beardygnome [22:18] could we pull in news from xfce or ubuntu, for example? [22:18] We would like all the content there now reviewed, to make sure it is up-to-date and pertinent [22:18] We won't pull from Ubuntu, since that is alll on the planet feed already [22:18] pleia2: around? [22:19] knome: here? [22:19] I wonder, would that "up to date" be LTS or 11.04? [22:19] we will make a note to get an answer, beardygnome [22:19] I think pulling from Xfce would be interesting, myself. [22:19] both, GridCube [22:20] They apply to different audiences, but both would be current [22:20] ok [22:20] that makes sense [22:20] As has been noted, we need new screenshots for upgrades [22:20] i still use 10.04 [22:20] Can anybody get us good screenshots? [22:20] looking for a volunteer here... [22:21] i can give you screenshot of 10.04 whit greybird [22:21] I don't know about "good", but I can do one in a VM [22:21] charlie-tca: what kind of screenshots do you want/need? [22:21] do they have to be stock xubuntu? [22:21] yes, since that is the product [22:21] ochosi: replace bluebird on the website? [22:22] oh, whats the "stock" theme for 10.04? [22:22] albatros? [22:22] charlie-tca: where exactly? [22:22] I don't know [22:22] where ever pleia2 wants them [22:22] hm, i think i already did that tbh [22:22] greybird is on the front-page and the tour [22:22] those are the screenshots that pleia2 requested back then [22:22] i can do a few screenshots of 10.04 whit standard themes, and whit up to date greybird too [22:22] I could do some screenshots from a vm, but my installs are pretty customised [22:23] Unit193: any idea? [22:23] i just looked through the website a bit and i can [22:23] 't find any not up-to-date screenshots [22:24] do you want comments to the ML? [22:24] I think they removed a few, because they were so out of date, but I tend to stay away [22:24] beardygnome: for? [22:24] yes [22:24] the website? [22:24] charlie-tca: http://xubuntu.org/getubuntu will tell you how to upgrade with old screenshots [22:24] as posted above, I will put the ways to send comments in the minutes, too [22:25] GridCube: apparently, not 10.04 [22:25] ochosi: note Unit193's comment? [22:25] Unit193: hm, true. yeah i guess those should be replaced (even if it's not a usability isse) [22:25] as said i can screenshot the update manager asking me to update to 10.10 [22:25] It does reflect on the project, overall, though. [22:26] If you want 10.10 > 11.04, I can install it in a VM [22:26] I think 10.10 to 11.04, since that is the current release [22:27] or shoot both and let pleia2 decide what to use [22:27] [ACTION] GridCube and Unit193 to get screenshots for the website [22:27] ACTION: GridCube and Unit193 to get screenshots for the website [22:27] oh, also im on a spañish setup :/ don't know if that changes things [22:27] only the words [22:27] oh, well then i will do it [22:28] Any other discussion / questions on anything covered so far? [22:28] Bug #784158 [22:28] Launchpad bug 784158 in Xubuntu Website "xubuntu.org/getubuntu has old screenshots" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/784158 [22:28] i want to ask something to ochosi regerding the themes [22:29] old business or new? [22:29] new [22:29] let's hold it for artwork then, okay? [22:29] ok [22:29] [TOPIC] === Team updates === [22:29] TOPIC: === Team updates === [22:30] [TOPIC] Packaging and Development [22:30] TOPIC: Packaging and Development [22:30] mr_pouit: your turn, please [22:30] eh, so nothing new this week [22:30] o/ [22:30] waiting on some uploads to happen (x11-common) [22:30] GridCube: go ahead [22:31] can we change gimp to something smaller/simplier? [22:31] (merge of the newer xfce4-indicator-plugin release that fixes transparency in progress) [22:31] That's important! [22:31] mr_pouit: i'm also looking forward to the new session-menu/action-buttons merge [22:32] GridCube: you can send that one to the mailing list with suggestions as to what to use? [22:32] oh okay [22:32] i propose gnu paint [22:33] ML - SUBJECT possible change from gimp [22:33] :) [22:33] mr_pouit: go ahead [22:34] sorry, that's all :p [22:35] I will say thank you to both micahg and mr_pouit for all their work getting Oneiric together. [22:35] This is going to a fun ride... [22:35] :D i second [22:35] mr_pouit: well, we're down to 1 rdepend on libnotify1, which should get sorted this week (transmission -> 2.32) [22:36] Thank you, mr_pouit. [22:36] any questions for development? [22:36] micahg: yay :) [22:37] [TOPIC] Bug Triage & Testing [22:37] TOPIC: Bug Triage & Testing [22:37] Testing had a bad week, since there were images until Thursday [22:37] We will try to pick up again this week [22:38] I am going to skip Website and Marketing for now [22:38] [TOPIC] Artwork [22:38] TOPIC: Artwork [22:38] ochosi: your the person! [22:38] hmkay, guess it's my turn [22:39] last week was pretty productive [22:39] i tackled a few things on my todo-list [22:39] mostly window-manager related [22:39] * finished the compact xfwm4 theme (good as alternative for netbooks etc., 18px height instead of 24px) [22:40] * added full support for compiz (emerald and metacity themes) [22:40] i also looked into gtk3 again in oneiric, have a working install here now. but tbh it's still pretty much a mess [22:40] the unico engine seems unfinished and buggy [22:40] i guess i'll postpone doing a real gtk3 port of greybird to some later stage [22:41] ochosi: nice news post [22:41] :D very nice indeed [22:41] i also wrote a short blog article on shimmerproject.org [22:41] if xubuntu.org gets easier to handle i can crosspost those kinds of articles there as well [22:42] We still have hopes [22:42] :) [22:42] ochosi: keep in mind that ideally for release, we should have a GTK3 theme so that we have a uniform look for all the apps (GTK2 & GTK3) [22:42] micahg: it's hard to not keep that in mind if you're really testing oneiric [22:42] Will we have to ship two themes, then? [22:42] charlie-tca: no, it'll all be in the greybird-folder/package [22:43] we are washing out some of the plugins in the panel, now [22:43] charlie-tca: no, the desktop team has a gateway that can use a GTK3 theme in GTK2 [22:43] charlie-tca: but on a technical level, yes, it will be two different themes (doubling the maintenance work for me :( ) [22:43] timer, clipman [22:43] ochosi: no, it shouldn't [22:43] micahg: a gateway? [22:43] charlie-tca: washing out? [22:43] * micahg forgets what it's called [22:43] making them invisible again, beardygnome [22:44] ochosi: some type of theme proxy [22:44] micahg: well, let me know about this, it sounds interesting (but also a bit scary) [22:44] so they appear in the indicator plugin instead? [22:44] micahg: can't really imagine something like this will 100% work [22:44] they don't appear, just take up space [22:44] ochosi: I did see something on that. I just don't remember where [22:44] ochosi: well, the desktop team needed it since not everything will be ported to GTK3 [22:45] micahg: but they have a working gtk2 theme which they're porting to gtk3, so they can easily ship both [22:45] ochosi: the plan is to have 1 GTK3 that GTK2&3 apps use last I checked [22:46] micahg: ok, interesting. i can ask luca about that. at the moment they're still shipping both [22:46] We are keeping in mind that we are staying in gtk2 for this release, right? [22:46] yes, but some of the shared desktop apps will be GTK3 [22:47] tbh if i have a working gtk2 theme and i port it to gtk3 i won't drop the working gtk2 theme for some "proxy"-solution, at least not in the short run [22:48] it'll hardly look the same anyway [22:48] Thank you [22:48] ochosi: it should look the same, that's the goal [22:48] micahg: well unless it uses the pixmap engine it's hard to believe for me, but i'm open for good surprises ;) [22:49] but anyway, if anyone hears any details on this, please let me know [22:49] okay, can we move on and discuss this when we get actual references to look at? [22:49] GridCube: did you have a question about art? [22:49] My question was this, can't themes be added to a ppa so when an update to the theme is done we can see it on the update manager? [22:50] ochosi: ?? [22:50] sry, i'm back [22:50] is it a lot of work adding themes to the ppa? [22:51] yeah, well actually this is planned already [22:51] mr_pouit ^ ;) [22:51] :D oh okay [22:51] it seems we just haven't gotten round to it [22:51] and then what about my whislist bug 800918 [22:51] and when i say "we", i mean the "royal we" (== mr_pouit) [22:51] Launchpad bug 800918 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Some wallpaper/backdrops ideas" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/800918 [22:52] We need to add these kind of bugs to the bug list [22:52] GridCube: i read and second that bugreport, but i think it should be done upstream or at least in coop with upstream [22:52] GridCube: and it needs a coder :) (which i am not) [22:53] Any bugs we want to be able to track easy, regardless of priority can be added to [22:53] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Bugs/OneiricOcelot [22:53] :D well i just wanted to bring that up again [22:53] k, one last word on artwork, then i'm done: [22:53] mr_pouit has been busy just trying to get us sessions working [22:53] .. [22:54] it's possible that the gtk-theme will change again slightly as soon as i start to work seriously on the gtk3 port. in my opinion it's really important that they look the same, so it's possible i need to change some things again [22:54] so please be open for discussion and friendly about it ;) [22:56] (..) ?? [22:56] :) [22:56] that's it. that's all :) [22:56] Thank you, ochosi [22:56] You have been very busy this last week! [22:57] Any other questions for Artwork? [22:57] not from me [22:57] [TOPIC] [22:57] TOPIC: [22:57] [TOPIC] Announcements [22:57] TOPIC: Announcements [22:58] I have a feew things here, so I will try to go too fast [22:58] * The next meeting will be on Sunday, 2011-07-25 at 19:00 UTC [22:58] * Important dates coming up: [22:58] * 10.04.3 Release: July 21, 2011 [22:58] * 11.10 Alpha 3: August 4, 2011 [22:59] * 11.10 FeatureFreeze : August 11, 2011 [22:59] charlie-tca: shouldn't the next meeting be on a monday? [22:59] * 11.10 Release Date: October 13, 2011 [22:59] i thought we were alternating? [22:59] 7-25 is a monday :) [22:59] That is monday [23:00] * The next meeting will be on Monday, 2011-07-25 at 19:00 UTC [23:00] * UDS-P will be in Orlando, Florida October 31 - Nov 4. Please apply for sponsorship by August 24. [23:00] * UDS-P information at http://ubuntu-news.org/2011/07/15/ubuntu-developer-summit-sponsorship-now-open-2/ [23:00] [TOPIC] Any Other Business [23:00] TOPIC: Any Other Business [23:01] This is the chance to bring up all the stuff we haven't brought up yet :) [23:01] again, nothing from me [23:01] is Firefox 6 in oneiric interesting? [23:01] I am seeing a rather disturbing thing happening in #xubuntu [23:01] sure, micahg [23:02] beta 1 is in, beta 2 should get in next week [23:02] s/next/this/ [23:02] whats whit firefox numbering? [23:02] charlie-tca: what are you seeing in #xubuntu? [23:02] too many are now receiving answers of "I don't use Xubuntu, and can't really help with that" [23:02] GridCube: similar versioning to Chromium, major bump every 6 weeks [23:02] If a user is coming to #xubuntu, they should expect to get xubuntu support. [23:03] charlie-tca: why are those people idling in #xubuntu then? [23:03] any suggestions how to deal with this, other than flat out banning those users? [23:03] yes i've seen that once or twice [23:03] I am wondering the same things [23:03] o/ [23:03] go ahead [23:03] beardygnome: [23:03] whenever some says that, we could ask them why they are in the channel [23:04] and suggest to them that it is not helpful to other users to state that they can't help [23:04] good suggestion [23:04] they *may* have a valid reason for idling in the room [23:04] charlie-tca: you could add a bot-action for that [23:04] I would like to see the channel ops watching for that, also [23:04] that would make it easier ;) [23:04] yes we could have an ubottu responce for that too [23:04] good idea [23:05] they shouldn't get involved if they have nothing to add [23:05] something like "if you are not an xubuntu user, please don't advertise it on this channel"? [23:05] let's add one, since those users seem to speak up often now [23:06] more like "Please do not disrupt the channel with off-topic subjects. If you are using Xubuntu, you are not helping this user." ? [23:06] I don't really know how to word it, but I think it is quite serious. [23:06] >if you are *not* using [23:07] i agree charlie-tca [23:07] well, yeah, *not* [23:07] +1 [23:08] Okay, name for that? [23:08] maybe ! notxubuntu? [23:08] maybe !nothelping [23:08] because they are not [23:08] sure, I like that [23:08] +1 [23:08] anyone else? [23:09] nope [23:09] yeah, just don't make it a very strong suggestion to shut up [23:09] well, it gets them banned in #ubuntu [23:10] !topic [23:10] Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic [23:10] I can't remember what it is now [23:10] !offtopic [23:10] #xubuntu is the Xubuntu support channel, #xubuntu-devel for discussion regarding development of Xubuntu, and #xubuntu-offtopic is for random chatter. Welcome! [23:10] anyway, are we okay with the suggestion, then? [23:10] i am [23:11] if they continue, I suggesting calling ops and having them removed for offtopic discussions, myself. [23:12] Okay, then. Any other discussions? [23:12] Thanks for attending the meeting. [23:12] :) thank you [23:12] Your inputs are always welcome, whether in person or by email [23:12] #endmeeting [23:12]