[05:06] <didrocks> good morning
[05:08] <RAOF> Hey there didrocks.
[05:08] <didrocks> hey RAOF, how are you?
[05:08] <RAOF> I'm alright.
[05:09] <RAOF> It's a pity the weekends are so short, though :)
[05:09] <didrocks> heh, got 3 days for once. Was needed :)
[05:10] <RAOF> Awesome!
[05:23] <vish> oh no! the French are coming!! ;p
[05:23] <TheMuso> Morning didrocks.
[05:23] <didrocks> hey TheMuso ;)
[05:23] <didrocks> vish: heh, be prepared!
[05:48] <pitti> Good morning
[05:49] <RAOF> Good morning pitti!
[05:49] <pitti> hey RAOF, how are you?
[05:50] <RAOF> I'm ok :).
[05:50] <RAOF> Hows about you?
[05:50] <didrocks> hey pitti! had a nice week-end?
[05:50] <pitti> hey didrocks
[05:50] <pitti> we did, indeed! my niece got married, so we went to Dresden again
[05:51] <didrocks> oh, excellent :)
[05:51] <pitti> how about you guys?
[05:53] <RAOF> Cool!  A fun wedding?
[05:53] <pitti> it was indeed! they picked nice places for the ceremony (a castle), and the party
[05:54] <didrocks> was nice! 3 days week-end was needed. Just the time to relax and do some exercice + enjoying the feist in Lyon (fireworks)
[05:54] <pitti> http://piware.de/fotos/Hochzeit-Henriette-Andre-Juli2011/ :)
[05:54] <pitti> didrocks: recovered a bit from last week's stress then?
[05:55] <didrocks> pitti: not really stressful (well a lot of questions/bashing on unity, ok…), but crazy hours, yeah. Totally recovered now!
[06:03] <didrocks> pitti: ok, so no need for ping you on the apport dpkg issue from Raphael :-)
[06:03] <pitti> I did some email catchup on Friday
[06:03] <didrocks> we discussed it at RMLL FYI ;)
[06:10] <jbicha> pitti: did you see my g-p-m merge request?
[06:11] <pitti> jbicha: yes, thanks for this! just uploaded
[06:11] <pitti> jbicha: ah, sorry, no; I merged your g-s-d branch
[06:11] <pitti> I didn't see a g-p-m MP yet
[06:12] <jbicha> pitti: https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/ubuntu/oneiric/gnome-power-manager/gnome-power-manager-3.1.2/+merge/68165
[06:13] <didrocks> ok, time to reboot after a week of updates, crossing fingers :)
[06:13] <pitti> ah, /me uncommits his 13-energy-star.patch patch cleanup then and merges your's
[06:13] <pitti> didrocks: you missed all the /run fun!
[06:14] <didrocks> pitti: I followed it by emails, it was enough of "fun" :-)
[06:14] <jbicha> pitti: oh, good thing I said something
[06:22] <pitti> jbicha: I'm surprised that g-p-m still has the icon-policy key
[06:22] <pitti> I thought that moved into g-s-d now
[06:22] <pitti> respectively indicator-power
[06:23] <jbicha> it probably should be there
[06:23] <pitti> anyway, looks good, thanks!
[06:23] <jbicha> by the way, these override settings don't seem to work for me
[06:25] <jbicha> none of them appear to change the defaults or even get applied at all
[06:25] <pitti> jbicha: in g-s-d you mean?
[06:26] <jbicha> pitti: I mean not one of the gschema.override's installed here seem to actually do anythinig
[06:36] <jbicha> pitti: oh, never mind, it's just dconf-editor that's broken
[06:36] <pitti> oh? it usually seems to work for me, including picking up overrides
[06:52] <didrocks> waow, the CD is really oversized. What happened?
[06:54] <didrocks> mvo: hey how are you? :)
[06:54] <mvo> hey didrocks! I'm good, how are you?
[06:54] <didrocks> mvo: I'm fine, thanks! I managed to do some good progress on oneconf during my RMLL trip :)
[06:55] <didrocks> mvo: not on #oneconf?
[06:57] <pitti> didrocks: apparently nobody heard my plea for rebuilding ubuntu-meta on Friday, doing now :)
[06:58] <pitti> didrocks: we added ibus-sunpinyin, but it's too big
[06:58] <pitti> originally I thought that ibus-pinyin was 15 MB (that's what apt-get install does), but due to our clever seeds of preferring the android db, it's only 1.5
[06:58] <pitti> so rebuilding meta will get it down by some 17 MB
[06:58] <pitti> the bad news is that now we once again have no plan how to get rid of the remaining 13 MB
[06:59] <didrocks> pitti: heh, that's worth an ubuntu-meta rebuild, indeed :)
[06:59] <didrocks> hum… no more langpack to remove?
[06:59] <pitti> the original deal for tbird was to build a Chinese image and dropping ibus-pinyin and chinese langpack
[06:59] <pitti> we can still remove the Chinese langpack then
[06:59] <pitti> which will give us back 6.5 MB
[06:59] <didrocks> but that will enable to get a chinese image of 703 MB? still
[07:00] <pitti> and chrisccoulson said that the recent 3 MB firefox growth should be fixed in the next build
[07:01] <pitti> ah, need to re-promote ibus-pinyin
[07:01] <RAOF> If cairo drops its egl backend then libegl and friends will drop off the CD, too.
[07:01] <pitti> oh, will it?
[07:02] <pitti> I guess it still causes memory hogs with nvidia?
[07:02] <RAOF> Yes, yes it does.
[07:02] <RAOF> Unless someone does the work to make it dlopen stuff, it's highly likely we'll just disable the backend again.
[07:02] <RAOF> (This was Seb's plan)
[07:03] <RAOF> That'd drop a couple of meg.
[07:04] <didrocks> glibmm will soon be dropped from compiz and unity, but there is still gparted depending on it, I think
[07:05] <RAOF> And if we make it dlopen stuff, then we can drop egl from the cd anyway.
[07:05]  * RAOF → shop.
[07:07] <pitti> didrocks: and gnome-system-monitor?
[07:08] <didrocks> pitti: oh, even the gnome3 one? I didn't check… ok, no hope on that direction then
[07:08] <pitti> didrocks: is there a gnome 3 one now?
[07:08] <pitti> didrocks: a few weeks ago, cjwatson made a first pass at porting to gtkmm3.0
[07:08] <pitti> didrocks: but it would only move from gtkmm 2.4 to 3.0, so no real difference
[07:09] <didrocks> pitti: not sure, didn't follow that TBH. So you seem more up to date than I there :)
[07:13] <jbicha> pitti: I was working on packaging a newer gnome-shell but it doesn't have a ~ubuntu-desktop branch
[07:14] <jbicha> I guess it's in universe, it that why?
[07:14] <pitti> mostly, yes
[07:15] <pitti> jbicha: main reason is that we would like it to stay in sync :)
[07:15] <Sweetshark> Morning desktopers!
[07:15] <pitti> jbicha: seems our only delta is the gir1.2-json-1.0 rename, which hopefully happened in Debian as well?
[07:15] <pitti> hey Sweetshark, how are you?
[07:16] <jbicha> pitti: yeah it looks like the only change now is that we have different default favorite-apps
[07:16] <pitti> jbicha: yes, it did
[07:16] <pitti> jbicha: i. e. 3.0.2-1ubuntu1 was only a temporary delta, and the first one ever
[07:17] <didrocks> good morning Sweetshark
[07:17] <jbicha> pitti: are we going to keep the favorite-apps delta though?
[07:18] <pitti> jbicha: I don't see that delta yet, is it in a merge proposal?
[07:18]  * pitti is looking at apt-get changelog gnome-shell
[07:19]  * pitti checks if the json rename is in svn
[07:19] <pitti> it's not, I'll commit it there
[07:20] <jbicha> pitti: it's 01_favorite_apps.patch and it is part of 3.0.2-1ubuntu1
[07:20] <pitti> jbicha: that's in Debian
[07:21] <pitti> it changes mozilla-firefox.desktop to epiphany.desktop
[07:21] <jbicha> except Debian does it wrong ;-)
[07:22] <jbicha> the Ubuntu version has firefox, libreoffice, banshee, & perhaps should have thunderbird
[07:23] <jbicha> oh you're right, Ubuntu didn't diverge
[07:23] <jbicha> but should we?
[07:23]  * didrocks thinks we shouldn't diverge apart if someone is willing to maintain gnome-shell in ubuntu
[07:24] <pitti> if we can change that only if dpkg-vendor --is ubuntu, sure
[07:24] <pitti>   * debian/control.in, debian/rules: When building on Ubuntu, add a dependency
[07:24] <pitti>     to gnome-icon-theme-full.
[07:24] <pitti> ^ I did that for our gnome-icon-theme split
[07:24] <jbicha> ok, is Debian going to have Gnome 3.2 ready for Oneiric's release?
[07:24] <pitti> jbicha: that's the plan
[07:24] <pitti> erm, sorry, misread
[07:25] <pitti> jbicha: no, Debian will stay at 3.0 until 3.2 is released
[07:25] <pitti> we are packaging 3.2 for Ubuntu right now
[07:25] <pitti> micahg: committed your gnome-shell json dependency fix to debian svn, thanks
[07:26] <didrocks> hum, my usb key isn't automounted, dmesg tells me all is fine, should I check udev?
[07:26] <pitti> didrocks: do you see it in nautilus?
[07:27] <didrocks> no, I don't
[07:27] <pitti> didrocks: in gvfs-mount -li ?
[07:29] <didrocks> pitti: no, I just have my optical drive listed
[07:31] <pitti> didrocks: do you see it in udisks --dump?
[07:31] <pitti> udisks --enumerate-device-files might be easier to read
[07:32] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, it's in!
[07:33] <pitti> ok, so something in gvfs
[07:34]  * didrocks looks at recent uploads
[07:34] <pitti> didrocks: can you remove it again, start "gvfs-mount -oi", and plug it in?
[07:34] <pitti> let's see what happens
[07:34] <didrocks> sure
[07:35] <didrocks> pitti: seems that it doesn't notice anything :/
[07:35] <pitti> didrocks: but you do see it in "udisks --monitor-detail" if you unplug/replug/
[07:35] <pitti> ?
[07:36] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, it's listed there
[07:37] <didrocks> but nothing in gvfs-mount -oi meanwhile
[07:37] <Sweetshark> pitti: I got mails about translation template imports for lo-build in natty, did you upload 3.3.3 to natty-proposed while I was ill?
[07:37] <pitti> is gvfs-gdu-volume-monitor running?
[07:37] <pitti> Sweetshark: it got accepted into natty-proposed on Friday, yes
[07:37] <didrocks> pitti: it even seems to be happily running
[07:37] <pitti> Sweetshark: feeling better now?
[07:37] <Sweetshark> pitti: yes, Ready to conquer the world!
[07:38] <didrocks> should I kill it and run it by hand?
[07:38] <pitti> didrocks: could you perhaps attach an strace -fvv to it and do the replug exercise again?
[07:38] <didrocks> pitti: sure, trying
[07:40] <Sweetshark> pitti: 3.4.1 for oneiric getting its finishing touches (some misbehaving script for creating libebook deps) and I will leave out the mono stuff for the first try.
[07:46] <didrocks> pitti: sorry, had to do it twice, because gvfs-gdu-volume-monitor needs to be ran in /. Here are the trace with connecting, disconnecting: http://paste.ubuntu.com/646280/
[07:47] <pitti> argh, an -s1024 would be helpful there, too, to be able to read the dbus messages
[07:47] <pitti> but anyway, looking
[07:48] <didrocks> can do :)
[07:48] <pitti> bah, why does it read /etc/fstab a million times
[07:48] <pitti> didrocks: but the device is not in there, is it?
[07:49] <didrocks> pitti: no, it's not listed there, I just checked again
[07:50] <didrocks> last time I tried this ubuntu usb stick it worked, I should probably try to swap to another one, just in case…
[07:50] <pitti> didrocks: you can try udisks --mount /dev/sdb1
[07:50] <pitti> if that works, the stick is okay
[07:51] <pitti> didrocks: can you give me the udisks --dump output while it's plugged in?
[07:51] <didrocks> pitti: indeed, udisks --mount /dev/sdb1 works
[07:52] <didrocks> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/646284/
[07:53] <pitti> uh, that looks screwed up
[07:53] <didrocks> hum, I can see another usb stick randomely picked
[07:54] <didrocks> pitti: what seems screwed?
[07:54] <pitti> looks like both /dev/sdb and sdb1 claim to be a mountable file system
[07:54] <pitti> (iso 9660)
[07:54] <pitti> but it should still automount sdb1
[07:54] <didrocks> oh right, nice
[07:54] <didrocks> hence the manual mount working
[07:55] <jbicha> pitti: I've got the Ubuntu favorites patch for Debian, can I email it to you?
[07:56] <pitti> jbicha: oh, great! sure
[07:56] <pitti> hah! take that, gsettings-data-convert
[07:56] <pitti> no more crashing
[07:56] <didrocks> pitti: probably usb-creator wasn't in a good shape last time I created the key. But anyway, as you told, it should pick one part to mount anyway
[07:56] <didrocks> pitti: nice \o/
[07:57] <didrocks> pitti: thanks a bunch for helping debugging and the explanation ;)
[07:57] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[07:57] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson!
[07:57] <chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, how are you?
[07:58] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm fine, thanks, good and long week-end ;) and you?
[07:58] <didrocks> I can see a thunderbird with nice notification, thanks! :)
[07:58] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[07:59] <pitti> didrocks: how big is this thing?
[07:59] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm good too thanks. i had a long-ish weekend, and went to stay with some friends.
[07:59] <chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you
[07:59] <chrisccoulson> ?
[07:59] <pitti> didrocks: perhaps I can replicate it here if you dump the first MB to a file, and I put it on an USB stick of mine with an usb-creator output on it?
[07:59] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I'm great, thanks!
[08:00]  * Sweetshark dances. 3.4.1 finished (without mono, but still).
[08:00] <didrocks> pitti: it's an ubuntu iso, nothing more. Can do a dd for the first MB, sure
[08:01] <chrisccoulson> pitti - it seems that the PGO build failure on friday is i386-specific (which is why it worked locally)
[08:01] <chrisccoulson> that's a bit weird still :/
[08:01] <pitti> didrocks: right, but with the specialty of the partition table/first blockes being messed up
[08:03] <didrocks> pitti: dd if=/dev/sdb of=messedupkey count=2048 sounds good to you?
[08:03] <pitti> chrisccoulson: is that a compiler bug, or does firefox have platform specific code?
[08:03] <pitti> didrocks: I"m not soure what the default bs is; perhaps try bs=1MB count=1 ?
[08:03] <chrisccoulson> pitti - the code which fails isn't platform specific, so i'm not sure yet
[08:04] <didrocks> that can work too :-)
[08:05] <didrocks> pitti: here we go: http://people.canonical.com/~didrocks/messedupkey
[08:05] <pitti> didrocks: cheers; just uploaded gconf for the session start crash, so I can now look into that
[08:06] <didrocks> pitti: excellent, thanks a lot :)
[08:07] <pitti> jbicha: ah, I'm not a big fan of ubuntu.series -- it has to be kept up to date
[08:07] <pitti> it's not applied in addition to series
[08:07] <pitti> jbicha: perhaps we can use sed in debian/rules instead of a patch?
[08:10] <jbicha> pitti: hmm, I think I sorta understand what you're saying but I haven't done anything like that before
[08:10] <pitti> didrocks: wait, your's actually says iso9660?
[08:10] <jbicha> I haven't done ubuntu.series before either but I was able to read the man page for that
[08:10] <pitti> didrocks: usb-creator creates and writes FAT
[08:11] <pitti> didrocks: perhaps you tried dd'ing an .iso first to sdb then to sdb1?
[08:11] <pitti> didrocks: as cjwatson announced recently we should now have hybrid images, so that would actually work
[08:11] <didrocks> pitti: oh oh… you are probably right, I'm remember doing that some weeks ago
[08:11] <didrocks> for testing it
[08:11] <pitti> didrocks: does it work?
[08:12] <pitti> didrocks: just trying to recreate your steps to get an USB stick which is roughly the same
[08:12] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, it clearly does :)
[08:12] <pitti> nice
[08:13] <didrocks> pitti: so blame the user :-) me in that case! anyway, trying to mount the first part in case there are both would still be a great addition :)
[08:13] <pitti> didrocks: yes, I know
[08:13] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, it's a shame that the 10.04.3 ISO won't have a nice shiny new firefox version on it ;)
[08:13] <pitti> didrocks: I'm not arguing it's not a bug, just trying to recreate your broken usb stick
[08:14] <didrocks> pitti: right, you totally right, quite crazy I forgot that, sorry :/
[08:15] <chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, you fixed the gconf crash? i was going to look at that this morning :)
[08:15] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yes
[08:15] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[08:15] <pitti> no worries ;)
[08:15] <pitti> slightly fewer apport spam dialogs at session start
[08:16] <pitti> the "system crashes" ones are annoying enough
[08:20] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: do you have the "Sharing Options" by right click in a nautilus folder?
[08:20] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, no, it doesn't look like it
[08:21] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: seems I'm not crazy then :)
[08:25] <pitti> didrocks: ah, no need for your image even -- merely dd'ing the iso on an USB stick reproduces that very bug
[08:25] <seb128> hi!
[08:26] <pitti> bonjour seb128! had a nice long weekend?
[08:26] <didrocks> pitti: oh nice :)
[08:26] <didrocks> hey seb128!
[08:26] <seb128> pitti, hey, excellent thanks!
[08:26] <seb128> hey didrocks, how was your week off?
[08:26] <didrocks> seb128: it wasn't a week off ;)
[08:26] <seb128> rrrrright ;-)
[08:26] <didrocks> but was nice
[08:27] <didrocks> seb128: even some people forced me to fix unity-2d at 02:00 AM :p
[08:27] <seb128> next you will tell me GUADEC is an hard work week as well :-p
[08:27] <seb128> lol
[08:27] <didrocks> didn't say it's an hard work, but people was disappointed to not see you so close to your home :)
[08:29] <seb128> lol, you told them that some people have work to do? ;-)
[08:30] <didrocks> seb128: it wasn't a slacking week… but oh well, no time to argue, I have work to follow on
[08:30] <seb128> didrocks, right, have a week off I bet you have ;-)
[08:30] <didrocks> …
[08:30] <seb128> ok, I stop trolling you there :p
[08:31] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: btw, I have now the answer on your thunderbird not getting new emails on some folder before clicking on them: the indicator doesn't show them as well
[08:34] <vuntz> seb128: fwiw, I think it's important from a community perspective to have developers going to events like rmll
[08:35] <seb128> hey vuntz
[08:36] <seb128> vuntz, I'm sure didrocks got you to say that in exchange of something ;-)
[08:37] <seb128> vuntz, but right, I don't disagree, it's just that cycles have a limited number of days and hours and it's hard to get work done and to attend all the conferences around as well
[08:37] <vuntz> oh, I tried to get him to break some stuff, but that didn't work
[08:39] <seb128> vuntz, did you manage to second review the wnck patch? ;-)
[08:40] <vuntz> I'm waiting for some angel telling me what's the best way to name the API
[08:40] <desrt> seb128: didier told me that he relaxed a lot and did almost no work at rmll
[08:40] <desrt> seb128: i wouldn't have high expectations of what he accomplished while there
[08:40] <didrocks> desrt: :-)
[08:41] <seb128> desrt, right, next he's going to tell people that GUADEC is a lot of work, I tell you ;-)
[08:41] <desrt> GUADEC is a lot of work
[08:41] <desrt> ...for ones liver
[08:42] <didrocks> seb128: did I tell that? but ok, meeting the openshot core dev, building the community, taking the time to explain why unity and having people changing their opinion is not that important…
[08:43] <seb128> didrocks, let's stop that, I was mostly playing a bit with you, no worry ;-)
[08:43] <seb128> hug!
[08:44] <seb128> pitti, oh, you fixed that gconf segfault, great
[08:46] <seb128> didrocks, oh, happy piloting btw ;-)
[08:46] <didrocks> seb128: I piloted the week before RMLL to swap with last Friday
[08:46] <didrocks> but thanks for the reminder nevertheless
[08:46] <seb128> oh ok, I'm catching up on calendar and stuff since I was off friday
[08:47] <pitti> seb128: yay less apport spam ;)
[08:48] <seb128> nice, the new gwibber landed, I can clean some extra gtk2 gconf lines
[08:48] <seb128> but robert_ancell still didn't fix lightdm :-(
[08:48] <seb128> hum, I wonder if he noticed it was broken, I will drop him an email
[08:50] <RAOF> What's broken about lightdm?
[08:50]  * RAOF is pretty sure he's got the latest packages, and everything *seems* to be working when he booted today…
[08:51] <seb128> the example greeter (which is default) segfault on protected userdirectories
[08:51] <seb128> it seems to not like not being able to read the .dmrc
[08:51] <RAOF> Ah.  And neither of those statements apply to my system, which would be why I haven't noticed :)
[08:51] <pitti> I use ecryptfs for my home, but the unity greeter
[08:52] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, oh, interesting. thanks
[08:52] <seb128> the unity greeter doesn't have the issue
[08:52] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
[08:52] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, good thanks. how are you?
[08:52] <seb128> I'm fine thanks
[08:53] <seb128> ideally we will get the unity greeter mir-reviewed and promoted soon but still would be nice to fix the default greeter
[09:00] <seb128> pitti, btw did you see my py3cairo preinst comment before the w.e?
[09:00] <seb128> well middle of previous week rather, before my w.e
[09:00] <pitti> seb128: I did
[09:00] <pitti> seb128: I reuploaded to NEW with the preinst removed
[09:00] <seb128> ok, will re-review it
[09:01] <pitti> merci
[09:01] <seb128> it seems fine out of that bit
[09:01] <seb128> de rien ;-)
[09:01] <pitti> seb128: I also sent it to the Debian pycairo maintainers, but haven't heard back from them yet
[09:01] <seb128> yeah, he's usually not very active or responsive
[09:01] <pitti> seb128: but I found a way to build python3-gobject without it, so I could do this large change in Debian
[09:01] <pitti> and we can enable the py3cairo bits once py3cairo lands in debian
[09:05] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, do you use a local filter in thunderbird to move your mail between folders btw, or do you do filtering elsewhere?
[09:06] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: filtering is done server side, nothing local
[09:06] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, aha
[09:06] <chrisccoulson> i guess that might be why
[09:06] <chrisccoulson> i think thunderbird checks those folders lazily
[09:06] <didrocks> oh…
[09:06] <chrisccoulson> i'm not 100% sure on that though
[09:07] <didrocks> some seems to be refresh quite frequently, but it's a huge blocker though :/
[09:08] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, perhaps try right-clicking on the folder and selecting "When getting new messages for this account, always check this folder" (not sure what that translates to in french though)
[09:08] <chrisccoulson> (in the folder properties)
[09:08] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, i don't see the issue because i do my filtering locally
[09:08] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: trying and will tell you
[09:08] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[09:10] <didrocks> yw :)
[09:12] <rodrigo_> hi
[09:15] <seb128> hey rodrigo_
[09:17] <didrocks> morning rodrigo_
[09:17] <pitti> hey rodrigo_, how are you
[09:18] <rodrigo_> hi seb128, pitti, didrocks, how are you?
[09:18] <didrocks> rodrigo_: I'm fine, thanks, and you?
[09:18] <pitti> rodrigo_: quite fine, thanks!
[09:18] <pitti> how about yourself?
[09:18] <rodrigo_> I'm a bit tired since I went to sleep quite late last night, but fine otherwise :)
[09:19] <rodrigo_> didrocks, seb128: enjoyed your 14th july? :)
[09:19] <seb128> yes, very much!
[09:20] <seb128> nice slacking w.e ;-)
[09:20] <rodrigo_> :)
[09:20] <didrocks> nice fireworks in Lyon in the evening, I worked in the train and catchup on emails once back but trade with the 15th
[09:25] <rodrigo_> but no head cutting in the celebrations, right? :)
[09:28] <seb128> no ;-)
[09:29] <seb128> pitti, did you just restart the retracers today?
[09:29] <pitti> seb128: yes, fixed up the broken amd64 chroot
[09:29] <pitti> seb128: well, "just" - that was maybe 1.5 hours ago
[09:30] <seb128> ok, good, I was wondering if they were catching up on backlog or if we get a stream of new bugs ;-)
[09:30] <seb128> reading through my bug email box it's retracer spammed
[09:30] <seb128> but if that's backlog catching up that's ok
[09:30] <seb128> pitti, thanks ;-)
[09:36] <pitti> does the new me-menu work for anyone?
[09:40] <jibel> it doesn't for me, and it breaks stacking of other menus
[09:41] <pitti> same here
[09:41] <pitti> and it pointlessly shows my name
[09:42] <jibel> +1 and my name is fairly long. it uses 15% of panel width :/
[09:42] <pitti> it should probably show your status ("Away") instead, which would make more sense
[09:42] <pitti> or at least the user name, not the real name
[09:42] <seb128> didrocks, does the skip bar flag you want to use in nautilus means also it will not be in the alt-tab list?
[09:43] <didrocks> seb128: right, for John, it's acceptable
[09:43] <seb128> didrocks, what about non unity sessions?
[09:44] <didrocks> seb128: don't know, I think we don't have a nice story there
[09:44] <seb128> hum
[09:44] <didrocks> I raised it during the discussion for what it worth
[09:44] <seb128> didrocks, can we have those discussions in public or better on the bug next time?
[09:44] <didrocks> seb128: sure
[09:44] <seb128> I'm not sure I agree with that change, having dialogs not in alt-tab really sucks
[09:45] <seb128> especially when you are not under unity and you don't have a launcher
[09:45] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[09:45] <didrocks> not being able to open nautilus during a copy isn't nice as well
[09:47] <seb128> well you can middle click the icon ;-)
[09:47] <didrocks> not really well advertized :-) but the real solution as told, will be to do some heavy tab-related work in bamf
[09:48] <seb128> right, let's see, I guess they are not going to do that refactoring during the lts cycle either
[09:48] <seb128> so let's see how it goes in practice
[09:48] <seb128> we should make the copy dialog a standalone process so it has its own icon :p
[09:49] <didrocks> integrated into compiz? :-)
[09:51] <seb128> why not ;-)
[09:57] <mvo> what is the current convention for dbus services "CamelCaseFunctions" or "pep8_style_lowercase" ? or something else?
[09:58] <mvo> hey seb128, welcome back, apt with hold-back-for-things-that-would-break-recommends has lnaded (we talked about it during the rally)
[09:58] <seb128> mvo, hey, great!
[09:58] <mvo> (dbus question is regarding the new software-propoerteies frontend/backend split)
[09:59] <seb128> mvo, will you get ride of gksudo there?
[09:59] <seb128> dunno about if there is a naming convention, will let pitti or others reply ;-)
[10:00] <mvo> seb128: yeah, no more gksu there
[10:00] <mvo> seb128: plus better reflection of reality
[10:00] <seb128> \o/
[10:00] <mvo> :)
[10:00] <mvo> *but* lucnhtime ;)
[10:24] <pitti> didrocks: hm, unity-support-test says "no" in a guest session for me, in particilar "not software rendered: no"
[10:25] <didrocks> pitti: whereas it says "yes" in the main session?
[10:25] <pitti> right
[10:25]  * pitti tries another user account
[10:25] <didrocks> can be a Xauth capability with apparmor if it's only the guest session
[10:25] <didrocks> some similar issues happened twice in the natty cycle
[10:26] <pitti> whoops, I get the example-greeter crash
[10:26] <pitti> (even though I run unity-greeter by default)
[10:27] <seb128> pitti, see ;-)
[10:28] <seb128> pitti, is that specific to guest session or do you get it with a test user?
[10:28] <pitti> seb128: guest session works
[10:28] <pitti> freshly created test user crashes
[10:28] <seb128> weird
[10:28] <didrocks> pitti: you can try glxinfo | grep rendering btw, should give the same result (same X call) than the support test
[10:28] <pitti> and unity-2d doesn't respect my /usr/share/gconf/ubuntu-2d/default/zz_ubuntu-defaults-test overrides any more
[10:29] <pitti> didrocks: already tried that; it does say "direct rendering: Yes" in guest session
[10:29] <didrocks> hum, weird, we use the same flag, let me check
[10:29] <didrocks> pitti: right, the overrides are fix is "fix committed"
[10:30] <pitti> didrocks: you mean it doesn't read gconf any more right now?
[10:30] <pitti> so guest doesn't work with 3d; switching to test user is broken; unity-2d doesn't read gconf settings
[10:30] <didrocks> pitti: well, depends, if it fallbacks, it won't until we set the detection in lightdm itself. If you choose the session, the trigger wasn't… triggered
[10:31] <pitti> how am I supposed to test ubuntu-defaults-builder now? :-)
[10:31] <seb128> pitti, kvm for the win? ;-)
[10:31] <pitti> didrocks: oh, you mean I could explicitly set the default session to unity-2d?
[10:31] <didrocks> pitti: right, the other has never worked for default settings
[10:32] <didrocks> (fallbacking)
[10:32] <pitti> didrocks: hm, as it happened /usr/share/xsessions/default.desktop already pointed to ubuntu-2d.desktop
[10:32]  * pitti pokes this harder
[10:32] <didrocks> what is /usr/share/xsessions/default.desktop ?
[10:32] <didrocks> I should miss some updates, I don't have it there
[10:33] <pitti> I don't know where it's coming from
[10:33]  * pitti tries with lightdm.conf
[10:34] <pitti> oh! lightdm doesn't tear down the guest account
[10:35] <pitti> didrocks: so you were saying if unity-2d is selected explicitly, the Xsession.d script should add some $XDG_something to make it pick up the gconf defaults?
[10:35] <seb128> didrocks, it's not a distro package, it's probably an hacking leftover for default session in gdm or something
[10:35] <seb128> didrocks, I've no such file installed either
[10:35] <didrocks> pitti: right
[10:35] <pitti> didrocks: now, doesn't seem to work :(
[10:36] <didrocks> pitti: so env | grep GDMSESSION is showing unity-2d right?
[10:36] <pitti> didrocks: which script is that? 70gconfd_path-on-session?
[10:36] <didrocks> pitti: indeed
[10:36] <didrocks> env | grep MANDATORY should add the new mandatory path
[10:36] <didrocks> show*
[10:37] <pitti> hm, now guest is broken, too
[10:37] <pitti> dear lightdm, you are nasty today
[10:38] <pitti> ok, giving up; logging out of my own session and trying ther, bbl
[10:38] <didrocks> /usr/share/xsessions/ubuntu-2d.desktop should enable adding /usr/share/gconf/ubuntu-2d.default.path
[10:44] <seb128> didrocks, pitti, rodrigo_, jasoncwarner_: sorry about the empty email I didn't update my evolution yet
[10:45] <rodrigo_> seb128, :)
[10:47] <Laney> morning
[10:47] <Laney> did we manage to get mono 2.0 stuff off the cd yet? :-)
[10:52] <Laney> livefs logs look good
[11:38] <nerd_bloke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/292203 has been marked as invalid against ppp, which project should it be assigned to for user creation with a usergroup membership?
[11:38] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 292203 in ppp "/usr/bin/pppd has group owner dip, not dialout" [Undecided,Invalid]
[12:12] <cyphermox> goooood morning!
[12:13] <pitti> hey cyphermox, how are you?
[12:13] <cyphermox> hey pitti, pretty good, you?
[12:13] <cyphermox> have you had time to take a look at my code? ;)
[12:13] <pitti> cyphermox: not yet, sorry; but it's high on my list
[12:13] <cyphermox> hehe
[12:21] <didrocks> good morning cyphermox
[12:21] <cyphermox> hey didrocks
[12:21]  * rodrigo_ lunch
[12:54] <kenvandine> good morning everyone
[12:55] <cyphermox> morning kenvandine
[12:55] <pitti> hey kenvandine, how are you? had a nice weekend?
[12:56] <kenvandine> good, too busy... ready for work :)
[12:56] <kenvandine> pitti, and you?
[12:57] <pitti> kenvandine: was nice as well; went to Dresden for my niece's wedding
[12:57] <kenvandine> cool
[13:01] <didrocks> seb128: FYI: bug #723861, what's your pick?
[13:01] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 723861 in ayatana-design "Right clicking on the desktop still displays the “Create Launcher...” option." [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/723861
[13:02] <seb128> didrocks, it calls a gnome-panel binary so it's broken in oneiric
[13:02] <seb128> didrocks, ideally we would check for the binary to enable the menu entry
[13:03] <seb128> which would fix the default install case and make GNOME users still happy
[13:03] <didrocks> seb128: ideally, we would check for the binary and if unity is running
[13:03] <seb128> right
[13:03] <didrocks> seb128: should I take time for this non default case?
[13:04] <seb128> well I would not bother and just drop it adding a comment that it depends on a gnome-panel binary
[13:04] <didrocks> ok, dropping
[13:04] <seb128> users can as well install a "create a launcher" small program and run it
[13:04] <seb128> or use nautilus-script
[13:05] <didrocks> anyway, even showing the desktop isn't the case in fallback mode for upstream
[13:05] <seb128> right, it's really a corner case use
[13:05] <seb128> it doesn't really justify a context menu entry
[13:06] <lamalex> Sarvatt: i think im having that lightdm issue. any known fix? when i log in, it just hangs indefinitely
[13:06] <seb128> didrocks, you might want to open a bug upstream suggesting them to drop it ;-)
[13:06] <seb128> especially if they still call the gnome-panel binary
[13:07] <didrocks> seb128: hum, won't they tell "well, let's drop nautilus showing the desktop?" :-) but yeah, I can try
[13:08] <charlie-tca> didrocks: Are we going to be able to get the fix for bug 804734 into oneiric soon?
[13:08] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 804734 in xorg "Please ship 60xdg_path-on-session like gdm" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804734
[13:09] <didrocks> charlie-tca: it's fix committed. Next time x11-common is uploaded, which is up to the xork guys
[13:09] <didrocks> xorg*
[13:10] <charlie-tca> okay, who do I need to talk to to get that done, then?
[13:10] <lamalex> didrocks: seb128 do you guys know anything about this lightdm bug?
[13:10] <charlie-tca> This is holding my images up from working
[13:10] <seb128> lamalex, no
[13:11] <didrocks> charlie-tca: maybe ask on #ubuntu-x I would say
[13:11] <charlie-tca> Thanlk you
[13:11] <didrocks> yw
[13:11] <charlie-tca> thank you, even
[13:12] <lamalex> is robertancell on holiday?
[13:14] <seb128> no
[13:14] <seb128> he's living on .au
[13:14] <seb128> like it's almost midnight for him at the moment
[13:18] <bigon> seb128: around?
[13:18] <seb128> bigon, yes
[13:19] <bigon> seb128: did you saw that there is a patch that fix FTBFS of tp-glib in ubuntu
[13:19] <bigon> ?
[13:19] <seb128> bigon, yes but I will let infinity deal with it, he did the update and opened an upstream bug
[13:19] <seb128> he's likely on it
[13:20] <bigon> k
[13:33]  * Sweetshark uploads a shiny new 3.4.X libreoffice package.
[13:33] <Sweetshark> Icanhazbeowulfclusterofbuildd?
[13:39] <pitti> heh
[13:39] <pitti> nice!
[13:47] <lamalex> oh my god how do i change my layout options with the new gnome 3 control center
[13:48] <lamalex> my caps lock is a caps lock and it's freaking me out, man
[13:52] <seb128> gnome-control-center region, layout tab, options
[13:52] <seb128> though I think that's being dropped in 3.2
[14:06] <mterry> pitti, what was wrong with sunpinyin that we reverted it?
[14:16] <pitti> mterry: it's too big; I thought that pinyin was 15 MB, but it's only 1.5 (due to the explicitly seeded -android-db)
[14:17] <pitti> mterry: sunpinyin is 19 MB, there's just no way we can make it fit; we'll add it to the Chinese image instead
[14:17] <pitti> mterry: and language-selector now pulls it in dynamically
[14:17] <mterry> pitti, cool
[14:22] <seb128> hum
[14:23] <seb128> pitti, were you in discussion where it was decided that suspend and hibernate would not be turned on as available by default, only on certified systems?
[14:23] <seb128> that seems a bit crazy
[14:23] <seb128> suspends work on most laptop usually
[14:23] <pitti> erm, what?
[14:23] <seb128> or is that a design,dx decision?
[14:24] <seb128> pitti, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Power
[14:24] <pitti> I've heard about wishes to disable hibernate, but even the OEM team said that they want it on
[14:24] <pitti> disabling suspend sounds crazy to me
[14:24] <seb128> pitti, well "having an ui to turn it on but not checked by default"
[14:24] <pitti> if it really doesn't work on a particular machine, well, "don't do that then"
[14:24] <seb128> c.f that wiki
[14:24] <pitti> but it works fine in most cases
[14:27] <seb128> right
[14:50] <seb128> vuntz, so, how is that wnck naming thinking going? ;-)
[15:01] <bryceh> I've got a couple baby doctor appointments, but will be back in ~3 hrs
[15:10] <seb128> rodrigo_, how is the goa packaging going?
[15:10] <seb128> rodrigo_, do you need reviews or help for it?
[15:30] <pitti> good night everyone!
[15:32] <seb128> 'night pitti
[15:32] <didrocks> good night pitti
[15:35] <micahg> pitti: re gnome-shell fix>thanks, I meant to fwd it after I verified it broken in Debian
[15:44] <AlfE1> hello
[15:45] <AlfE1> where does network manager store the vpn logs?
[15:46] <rodrigo_> seb128, no, almost done, will probably ask for a review tomorrow
[15:47] <seb128> rodrigo_, ok
[15:57] <cyphermox> AlfE1: you'll want to look at /var/log/sys
[15:57] <cyphermox> */var/log/syslog
[15:58] <cyphermox> AlfE1: that said, please go to #ubuntu if you have questions to ask about how to use, or running into problems with using, NM and others; #ubuntu-desktop is a development channel to discuss the development of the Ubuntu Desktop; #ubuntu is the support channel.
[15:59] <cyphermox> didrocks: still around? did you have time to look at the vpnc/network-manager-vpnc mirs?
[16:01] <didrocks> cyphermox: sure
[16:01] <didrocks> cyphermox: so, not seeded, isn't it?
[16:01] <cyphermox> didrocks: no
[16:08] <seb128> re
[16:08] <mvo> if someone is keen to play (and fix ;) with the dbus-ified software-properties, its at lp:~mvo/software-properties/updates-redesign
[16:08] <seb128> mvo, mterry: update-notifier notifies me about updates, reboot required, apport issues, etc since I update, is that normal behaviour or a bug in the gsettings update?
[16:09] <seb128> it's confusing because the notification say to click on the notification icon but we have none
[16:09] <seb128>  
[16:09] <seb128> bah, evolution still fails to display the debian-devel-changes emails
[16:09] <seb128> but at least it sends non empty emails now ;-)
[16:17] <mterry> seb128, hrm, I haven't seen that myself.  Could be a bug in gsettings...  What does your dconf-editor show in com.canonical.update-notifier?
[16:18] <seb128> mterry, com.ubuntu you mean I guess?
[16:18] <mterry> seb128, nope, canonical
[16:18] <seb128> com.ubuntu.update-notifier false
[16:18] <seb128> mterry, there is no canonical
[16:18] <mterry> hmm....
[16:19] <mterry> maybe mvo changed my merge
[16:19] <seb128> mterry, I think mvo changed the namespace when he merged it
[16:19]  * mterry thinks we need a clear policy on such things
[16:19] <mterry> It's a Canonical CA project...
[16:19] <seb128> yeah, same here
[16:19] <seb128> dunno why he changed it
[16:20] <didrocks> cyphermox: there are some direct call for vpnc to system($Var_from_config_file), I don't really like that, I asked the security team to do a review
[16:20] <seb128>     <key name="no-show-notifications" type="b">
[16:20] <seb128>       <default>false</default>
[16:20] <seb128>       <summary>Stop showing update notifications</summary>
[16:20] <seb128> mterry, mvo: so yeah, default is to display notifications it seems
[16:20] <mterry> seb128, I have that as false too, but I haven't seen notifications
[16:20] <mterry> seb128, I don't believe that was changed
[16:21]  * mterry looks at merge again
[16:21] <cyphermox> didrocks: ok, thanks
[16:21] <seb128> mterry, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/update-notifier/ubuntu/revision/632 btw
[16:22] <didrocks> cyphermox: network-manager-vpnc seems ok, but waiting on the other one :)
[16:24] <cyphermox> sure, that's fine
[16:24] <seb128> mterry, seems like no_show_notifications was not in the schemas before?
[16:27] <mterry> seb128, true, it was a secret pref.  but undeclared bool prefs in gconf default to false
[16:28] <mterry> It does seem like the culprit though...
[16:29] <seb128> maybe I had tweaked values for those
[16:29] <seb128> but I'm pretty sure we didn't display notifications by default since we autospawn update-manager
[16:30] <seb128> same for the reboot, we change the indicator to indicate a restart is required
[16:32] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: seems I don't get again the "no notification until clicking on folder" after checking on each folder the box you pointed me at. That's weird it wasn't the case everywhere though
[16:33] <mterry> seb128, does dconf-editor show that you have auto-launch enabled?
[16:33] <mterry> seb128, the code skips the reboot notification if so
[16:34] <seb128> it's enabled yes and that seems the default
[16:34] <seb128> mterry, don't bother about it, thanks for looking at it
[16:34] <seb128> I wonder if that was an upgrade thing
[16:34] <seb128> like update-notifier on gconf still running
[16:34] <seb128> but the gconf database went away under its feet
[16:34] <mterry> seb128, as long as no one else sees it, I guess we're fine
[16:35] <seb128> I've restarted my session and it seems to work fine now
[16:35] <seb128> so maybe it was the gconf instance still running with the gsettings one installed
[16:35] <seb128> we should perhaps restart it in the postinst or something
[16:35] <seb128> I will check with mvo
[16:36] <seb128> bah, dconf is a mess
[16:37] <seb128> the namespace use rather
[16:37] <seb128> the desktop.unity stuff should probably be moved
[16:38] <seb128> it's confusing to have apps. desktop. and then com. and org
[16:43] <czajkowski> kenvandine: ello ello you about
[16:45] <kenvandine> hey czajkowski
[16:46] <czajkowski> kenvandine: guess what :)
[16:46] <kenvandine> gwibber bug :)
[16:46] <czajkowski> yup latest update makes it crash on start up
[16:46] <czajkowski> just when gwibber and I were getting on
[16:46] <kenvandine> on oneiric?
[16:47] <czajkowski> works on fine my mini 9 2d unity.
[16:47] <czajkowski> dear gods no, natty. not brave yet for oneiric
[16:47] <kenvandine> it didn't change on natty....
[16:47] <kenvandine> oh, do you have it from a ppa?
[16:47] <czajkowski> no...
[16:48] <kenvandine> apt-cache policy gwibber
[16:48] <kenvandine> just to make sure :)
[16:48] <czajkowski> Installed: 3.0.0.1-0ubuntu3
[16:48] <czajkowski>   Candidate: 3.0.0.1-0ubuntu3
[16:48] <czajkowski>   Version table:
[16:48] <czajkowski>  *** 3.0.0.1-0ubuntu3 0
[16:48] <czajkowski>         500 http://ubuntu.datahop.net/ubuntu/ natty-updates/main i386 Packages
[16:48] <czajkowski>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
[16:49] <czajkowski>      3.0.0.1-0ubuntu2 0
[16:49] <czajkowski>         500 http://ubuntu.datahop.net/ubuntu/ natty/main i386 Packages
[16:49] <kenvandine> ok
[16:49] <kenvandine> i wonder what changed
[16:50] <kenvandine> killall -9 gwibber-service; gwibber-service -d -o
[16:50] <kenvandine> then run the client again
[16:53] <czajkowski> ok
[16:53] <czajkowski> dear gwibber, please start :(
[16:54] <czajkowski> kenvandine: it crashes and report comes up to send in bug
[16:55] <kenvandine> ok, send the bug please
[16:55] <czajkowski> will do
[16:55] <kenvandine> czajkowski, ping me with the bug number
[16:55] <czajkowski> pretty sure gwibber and this machine just don't want to work
[16:58] <czajkowski> kenvandine: thanks
[16:58] <czajkowski> kenvandine: I promise one day to ask you about a non gwibber bug!
[16:59] <kenvandine> hehe :)
[16:59] <kenvandine> sure...
[16:59] <czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gwibber/+bug/812414
[16:59] <ubot2> czajkowski: Error: <Bugtracker.plugin.Launchpad instance at 0x8d65a2c> bug 812414 not found
[17:00] <kenvandine> czajkowski, please also attach the log file
[17:00] <kenvandine> ~/.cache/gwibber/gwibber.log
[17:03] <czajkowski> kenvandine: Thank you
[17:04] <didrocks> have a good evening everyone
[17:53] <seb128> kenvandine, you should clean gwibber merge requests one day ;-)
[17:53] <seb128> there is a stack of those sitting there
[18:09] <kenvandine> seb128, yeah... i know
[20:42] <mterry> tedg, heyo, want to have a chat about ubuntu-local?
[20:42] <mterry> The menubar property, that is
[20:44] <tedg> mterry, Sure
[20:45] <mterry> tedg, so, the intention is that it's an opt-out for 3rd parties of appmenu-gtk in case they have a non-main menubar hanging around, right?
[20:46] <mterry> tedg, or is it an internal implementation detail?
[20:46] <tedg> mterry, Or if they don't want their menu bar shown.
[20:46] <tedg> mterry, More a universal opt-out
[20:46] <mterry> tedg, well, it's more targeted than 'universal'.  I'm talking about the per-menubar property 'ubuntu-local'
[20:47] <tedg> mterry, Yes, I realize.  But the idea was that app developers could put that on all their menu bars if they wanted.
[20:47] <mterry> tedg, I see
[20:48] <mterry> tedg, well, freeciv hit a bug where non-main menubars weren't showing up.  One solution would have been to set ubuntu-local.  But that didn't work, because if they opened a submenu on it, the menubar disappeared again
[20:48] <mterry> tedg, I've tracked that down as an overzealous mirroring of the 'show-local' proxy property into menubars' 'ubuntu-local' properties by appmenu-gtk
[20:49] <mterry> Or rather, overzealous setting of 'show-local' by appmenu-gtk.  GTK+ itself does the mirroring
[20:49] <tedg> Ah, hmm.  Interesting.
[20:52] <tedg> mterry, Uhg, sorry if missed something.  Focus issues and using Ctrl+W
[20:52] <mterry> tedg, you may have missed "Or rather, overzealous setting of 'show-local' by appmenu-gtk.  GTK+ itself does the mirroring".  So the quick fix is to not set show-local to the same value it already holds (which prevents constant setting of show-local and thus constant mirroring to ubuntu-local).  But I feel like there are still legitimate times when show-local will be set and the user-provided value in ubuntu-local will be overwritten.  Is there
[20:52] <mterry> a good way to help this situation?
[20:53] <mterry> We could introduce a third variable, 'ubuntu-local-internal' which considers the value of show-local and ubuntu-local....
[20:54] <tedg> mterry, Is there a reason to cache it?  I mean, just have a macro to pull the two together?
[20:56] <mterry> tedg, sure, that's true.  We could stop mirroring in GTK+ and just have the menubar look at both
[20:56] <tedg> mterry, Seems simpler to me.  what do you think?
[20:56] <mterry> tedg, sure, I'll work on a patch tomorrow
[20:57] <tedg> Great, thanks mterry!
[21:42] <RoAkSoAx> [6~win 16
[22:42] <AlfE1> thanks to cyphermox, but I didn't got a reply on #ubuntu, so i tried here
[23:34] <ronoc> TheMuso, hey
[23:34] <TheMuso> ronoc: Hi.
[23:35] <ronoc> TheMuso, Have you noticed pavucontrol crashes on startup
[23:35] <ronoc> its looking for some xml file that isn't there
[23:35] <TheMuso> ronoc: No, I haven't/don't use it.
[23:35] <ronoc> okay ill have a look
[23:35] <TheMuso> ah ok
[23:35] <ronoc> TheMuso, good night