| === franciscosouza_ is now known as franciscosouza | ||
| fwereade | good mornings | 05:42 |
|---|---|---|
| === daker_ is now known as daker | ||
| _mup_ | Bug #812343 was filed: formula exec env should include DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive <Ensemble:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/812343 > | 15:04 |
| adam_g | m_3: pong | 16:03 |
| m_3 | adam_g: was just responding with the rabbit stuff | 16:04 |
| m_3 | adam_g: I attached it to the bug report | 16:04 |
| m_3 | adam_g: was able to reproduce your problem, then got it 'started' | 16:05 |
| m_3 | adam_g: misbehaving package dep | 16:05 |
| m_3 | adam_g: lemme know if that fixes it for you pls | 16:06 |
| SpamapS | rabbit is a strange beast | 16:09 |
| SpamapS | causes all kinds of problems for LP devs because of its insistance that its hostname never change. | 16:09 |
| m_3 | SpamapS: I think it was just a startup script in a dependent package not playing nicely | 16:10 |
| SpamapS | m_3: what package? | 16:11 |
| m_3 | don't know which one... | 16:11 |
| m_3 | apt-get install -y rabbitmq-server didn't work | 16:11 |
| m_3 | adding noninteractive and --no-install-recommends fixed it for me | 16:12 |
| adam_g | m_3: i actually was using the non-interactive frontend for a while, but took it out to see if it made any difference | 16:12 |
| adam_g | ill give no-install-recommoends a shot, thanks | 16:12 |
| SpamapS | erlang-base | erlang-base-hipe, erlang-asn1, erlang-corba, erlang-crypto, erlang-docbuilder, erlang-edoc, erlang-eunit, erlang-ic, erlang-inets, erlang-inviso, erlang-mnesia, erlang-odbc, erlang-os-mon, erlang-parsetools, erlang-percept, erlang-public-key, erlang-runtime-tools, erlang-snmp, erlang-ssh, erlang-ssl, erlang-syntax-tools, erlang-tools, erlang-webtool, erlang-xmerl | 16:12 |
| m_3 | I can narrow it down to a particular package if this gets you past the hurdle | 16:13 |
| SpamapS | lots of dependencies from erlang-nox | 16:13 |
| m_3 | yup | 16:13 |
| adam_g | m_3: still no luck with that install hook and those apt-get options. | 16:24 |
| adam_g | m_3: were you able to deploy to a completely fresh system? | 16:26 |
| fwereade | hey guys, didn't notice you come in :) | 16:27 |
| fwereade | it's the end of my day now but I'll be back shortly | 16:27 |
| fwereade | my mind in in a maze of twisty little tests, all alike, and I'm not going to be able to resisit another look :p | 16:28 |
| m_3 | adam_g: yeah, from totally shutdown to rabbitmq 'started' | 16:29 |
| m_3 | adam_g: are you specifying the ami or anything in your environment? | 16:30 |
| adam_g | m_3: yeah, an oneiric daily from last week. which are you using? | 16:30 |
| m_3 | not specifying ami... defaults to natty | 16:31 |
| m_3 | ami-06ad526f | 16:31 |
| m_3 | which ensemble rev? | 16:32 |
| adam_g | sec | 16:32 |
| m_3 | fwereade: hey man | 16:34 |
| m_3 | adam_g: yeah, just tested again and it comes up fine... only bzr diff with your branch is http://pastebin.com/76H4dsBF | 16:36 |
| m_3 | adam_g: my env (less keys) http://pastebin.com/fL0fSn3r | 16:37 |
| fwereade | m_3: heyhey :) | 16:46 |
| fwereade | oh, dammit | 16:49 |
| fwereade | I just spent half an hour reexamining my apparently-flawed understanding of mocker and twisted | 16:50 |
| fwereade | turned out to be a lower-case 'r' in some_mock.callRemote | 16:50 |
| jimbaker | fwereade, they are tricky to combine | 16:50 |
| fwereade | jimbaker: yeah, I assumed I'd encountered some subtlety that would teach me something | 16:51 |
| fwereade | all it's actually taught me is lrn2type | 16:51 |
| RoAkSoAx | fwereade: \o/ | 16:51 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: hey, how's it going | 16:52 |
| SpamapS | we've all been humbled by twisted a bit. :) | 16:52 |
| RoAkSoAx | fwereade: good good | 16:52 |
| RoAkSoAx | you? | 16:52 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: yeah, recovering, not used to this jetlag lark | 16:52 |
| RoAkSoAx | fwereade: hehehe yeah!! fun times !! :) | 16:53 |
| jimbaker | fwereade, in zed shaw's learning python the hard way, learning to type (and the resulting debugging) is a key piece of the learning strategy | 16:53 |
| fwereade | jimbaker: still haven't looked into that... I usually enjoy zed's stuff | 16:53 |
| fwereade | jimbaker: first encountered him ranting about statistics in the ZSFA days :) | 16:54 |
| jimbaker | fwereade, some interesting insight. i was perusing it for teaching my daughter python | 16:54 |
| fwereade | jimbaker: cool :) how old is she? | 16:54 |
| jimbaker | fwereade, she's 10. she has already programmed in C (albeit through the use of a visual editor) and squeak | 16:54 |
| jimbaker | she learned squeak on her own. C was for a robotics camp | 16:55 |
| fwereade | jimbaker: cool, I have that to look forward to, Laura's only 2 :) | 16:55 |
| m_3 | adam_g: they're coming up, but rabbit's not fully installed... still trying to figure out where it's going | 16:55 |
| fwereade | jimbaker: I have some blurred photos of her waving a cuddly snake, and that's as far as I've got | 16:56 |
| SpamapS | jimbaker: My 8 year old found Scratch this last weekend. He had quite a bit of fun with it. :) | 16:56 |
| jimbaker | fwereade, so zed shaw's premise is that those of who learned how to program by typing in code from a magazine/book is fundamentally different than the latter practice of doing cut & paste | 16:56 |
| SpamapS | Still its really hard to keep him focused on it.. its an unbelievable leap for him from that to what the xbox does. ;) | 16:56 |
| fwereade | jimbaker: hmmm, yes | 16:57 |
| jimbaker | i don't know if he uses this analogy, but looking at code is like an expert chess player looking at a board. we can use pattern recognition to really grok what's going on - especially what's wrong | 16:57 |
| SpamapS | crap.. I suck at chess | 16:58 |
| m_3 | _love_ scratch | 16:58 |
| fwereade | jimbaker: nice | 16:58 |
| jimbaker | SpamapS, yeah, my daughter was playing with scratch over at a friend's house. what kids do when you're monitoring them, it's dangerous ;) | 16:58 |
| jimbaker | you're *not* monitoring ... | 16:58 |
| fwereade | jimbaker: it'll be like wargames all over again | 16:59 |
| jimbaker | fwereade, indeed. i think there will be a tv movie about it | 16:59 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: hey, cool, glad you're coming in august | 17:02 |
| RoAkSoAx | fwereade: mee too.. this week I'll be working on getting everything Clint' | 17:06 |
| RoAkSoAx | did onto the ensemble bootstrap | 17:06 |
| RoAkSoAx | and I guess in the sprint we'll figure final details | 17:06 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: awesome | 17:06 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: I have the final(!?) state of that branch in review again, and I'm starting to integrate stuff from our shared branch on top of it | 17:07 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: it crossed my mind that from what Gustavo said I shouldn't be pulling from or pushing to that branch directly | 17:07 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: so I guess it doesn't need to be shared | 17:07 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: but no harm done :) | 17:08 |
| RoAkSoAx | fwereade: right, but well I guess that as long as nothing changes significantely and breaks the stuff i'm working on, there wouldn't be much difference on how e handle that | 17:09 |
| RoAkSoAx | fwereade: but still I'd like to work with a branch that's in sync with your work | 17:10 |
| RoAkSoAx | so I can be sure nothing will break significantly | 17:10 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: indeed not -- I just thought you should know | 17:10 |
| RoAkSoAx | fwereade: :) | 17:11 |
| RoAkSoAx | ;) | 17:11 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: the major source of confusion I think is that I'm having to use the twisted xmlrpc client, and test it, and so the code is coming out the other end a ...little less recognisable | 17:12 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: but given I have an environment, I think I can be pretty confident in it if it has the same results as yours | 17:12 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: that said it might be sensible to get you to review my (your) changes once they've passed through my hands ;) | 17:13 |
| RoAkSoAx | fwereade: hehe yeah I was planning to send my changes for your review, as really, the main concern I have is just use all the goodness of your refactoring | 17:15 |
| RoAkSoAx | rather than me putting all the code in one single function | 17:15 |
| RoAkSoAx | :) | 17:15 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: as long as it's moderately spread out I'm not bothered :p | 17:15 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: just shout if you find you're ending up duplicating code | 17:16 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: which would imply a deficiency in itc current shape | 17:16 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: actually I had a question | 17:18 |
| fwereade | netboot_enabled | 17:18 |
| fwereade | acquire_system will only grab systems with it enabled | 17:19 |
| fwereade | start_system always tries to set it to True | 17:19 |
| fwereade | I presume we only actually need one of those, and I was wondering which you thought would be better | 17:19 |
| RoAkSoAx | fwereade: let me check | 17:26 |
| RoAkSoAx | fwereade: no I believe they should be kept | 17:31 |
| RoAkSoAx | fwereade: acquire_system will obtain an available system | 17:32 |
| RoAkSoAx | fwereade: while start system will tell it to start by issueing the commands, like containing the system through IPMI or stuff like that | 17:32 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: not sure I follow | 17:33 |
| fwereade | if a system is already netboot_enabled, why would we set that to True again on start? | 17:33 |
| RoAkSoAx | fwereade: acquire_system browses for a system that is under foo-available management class, and grabs one | 17:33 |
| fwereade | similarly, if we can set it to True on launch, why exclude systems that don't have it set? | 17:33 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: but acquire_system also skips those without netboot_enabled | 17:34 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: ...unless I'm looking at the wrong branch :/ | 17:34 |
| RoAkSoAx | fwereade: then start_system, tells cobbler to contact any configured device to actually power on the machine. Setting it to netboot_enable when acquiring the system makes sure to acquire one that has netboot enabled | 17:34 |
| RoAkSoAx | fwereade: but when starting the system, it is making sure that netboot enabled is correctly set, otherwise the system willfail to netboot | 17:35 |
| RoAkSoAx | fwereade: it is just a way of making sure | 17:35 |
| RoAkSoAx | fwereade: cause let's say for whatever reason we acquired a system, and suddently someone changes the system profile on cobbler, then when ensemble tells it to boot the machine up | 17:36 |
| RoAkSoAx | fwereade: the machine wont be able to PXE | 17:36 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: if we also _set_ it when we acquire the system, I'm happy, but as it is we just skip the system if it isn't already set the way we want | 17:36 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: it makes sense to me to set it immediately before launch, even if it seemed to be set ok before | 17:36 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: but if we _can_ set it, why would we avoid acquiring a system _without_ netboot_enabled? | 17:37 |
| RoAkSoAx | fwereade: maybe it would be a system that we would like to not use for a moment but still keep under foo-available | 17:38 |
| RoAkSoAx | fwereade: I know it does not seem unnecessary, but for me I think it is a necessar evil :) | 17:38 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: I'd be inclined to make in-foo-available the single point of truth for that | 17:39 |
| _mup_ | ensemble/expose-provision-machines-reexpose r292 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com | 17:39 |
| _mup_ | Merged trunk | 17:39 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: but the critical thing is that it is actually intended | 17:39 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: and I don't need to worry that I'm totally misunderstanding ;) | 17:39 |
| RoAkSoAx | fwereade: yeha, but AFAIK I think we should not care that much right now about that, as it is super easy to override | 17:39 |
| RoAkSoAx | fwereade: cause as I mention, i think we need better ways to ensure the interaction with the management classes | 17:40 |
| RoAkSoAx | as I explained last week, we could set the management class from foo-available to foo-acquired and then the physicl machine might fail to start | 17:40 |
| RoAkSoAx | while ensemble status still shows that machine as available | 17:40 |
| RoAkSoAx | and doing the check, we can be assuming that "there's a reason by it has been set to disable. but let's just make sure we enable it before starting the machine" | 17:41 |
| RoAkSoAx | s/by/why | 17:41 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: yep, makes sense | 17:41 |
| fwereade | RoAkSoAx: thanks :) | 17:41 |
| fwereade | anyway, I think that really is it for me now | 17:43 |
| fwereade | gn all, see you soon | 17:43 |
| _mup_ | Bug #812441 was filed: ensemble ssh should passthrough args to ssh <Ensemble:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/812441 > | 17:46 |
| _mup_ | ensemble/expose-provision-machines-reexpose r293 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com | 17:51 |
| _mup_ | Support reexposing a service | 17:51 |
| niemeyer | Hallo! | 18:02 |
| niemeyer | m_3: Nice blog post1 | 18:06 |
| niemeyer | ! | 18:06 |
| === daker is now known as daker_ | ||
| jcastro | m_3: SpamapS: *hand wave* who wants to go over the first cut of my ensemble slides? | 18:26 |
| SpamapS | jcastro: fire away | 18:27 |
| SpamapS | m_3: feedback on the NFS formula.. I don't think we should keep repeating the paradigm of using the remote service name for stuff. | 18:37 |
| SpamapS | m_3: I'd rather see us implement a mode where the consuming side suggests a name... that way two services can share the same NFS export. | 18:38 |
| SpamapS | m_3: we also need to put together some interface docs .. :) | 18:38 |
| jcastro | m_3: nice blog post! | 19:05 |
| jcastro | I wonder if it makes sense to do a debconf prompt when you install ensemble for the EC2 keys instead of punting the user to editing a dotfile right off the bat | 19:06 |
| m_3 | niemeyer: thanks! | 19:20 |
| m_3 | jcastro: are your latest on the U1 share? | 19:21 |
| m_3 | SpamapS: yup... do you have any interfaces written up so far? | 19:23 |
| jcastro | m_3: they are | 19:27 |
| m_3 | seems like it's naturally part of the formula doc... we then have an 'interfaces' page on the wiki that scrapes formula docs from the repo | 19:27 |
| m_3 | jcastro: used 22G on U1 already... gotta get it off the web | 19:29 |
| jcastro | heh, nice! | 19:31 |
| m_3 | jcastro: which talk you wanna go over first? | 19:34 |
| jcastro | m_3: 5 minute is the same you saw, 10 minute is just the exanded version of that, it just needs a once over | 19:34 |
| jcastro | Ensemble Long Presentation is the one I'm having a hard time with, it's like 30 slides but I am wondering if it needs to be so many slides vs. just doing a demo and going through it step by step | 19:35 |
| m_3 | ok, I'll look | 19:36 |
| jcastro | m_3: I just TODOed myself making a presentation of your blog post basically | 19:36 |
| jcastro | it's nice to have something other than mediawiki to talk about, heh | 19:36 |
| SpamapS | m_3: no but I think we'll just use ensemble.ubuntu.com/Formulas/Interfaces/(interface-name-here) .. | 19:37 |
| SpamapS | m_3: I was thinking we can use a yaml format.. and leave it open to plugin test scripts that can be run at each point to verify an interface... but.. I wonder if we shouldn't just write them up in a way we can re-use for your cucumber idea. | 19:37 |
| SpamapS | jcastro: less slides unless you do them "Identity 2.0" style.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrpajcAgR1E | 19:39 |
| m_3 | cucumber can consume yaml and adapt tests to each interface as nec | 19:39 |
| m_3 | jcastro: I'll try to build out some other stacks and blog about them | 19:41 |
| m_3 | jcastro: mediawiki full stack is still a very compelling xample | 19:42 |
| SpamapS | m_3: more compelling w/ config settings implemented. :) | 19:43 |
| m_3 | jcastro: especially if we can connect other aux services we've developed | 19:43 |
| m_3 | SpamapS: +1 | 19:43 |
| m_3 | jcastro: ok, I personally don't like bullet points on slides... it automatically makes me want to sleep | 19:44 |
| SpamapS | m_3: watch identity 2.0 | 19:44 |
| SpamapS | best presentation I've ever seen | 19:44 |
| SpamapS | Its the top of the pyramid, but some elements fit where we will start.. in the middle. :) | 19:45 |
| m_3 | jcastro: diagrams on 10min-page15 should maybe be flipped over (mysql on bottom)... totally minor though | 19:45 |
| jcastro | m_3: someone from design will make us proper stuff so pretend the blocks and stuff look pretty (but noted) | 19:45 |
| m_3 | wow I really like the animated parts of that... good story | 19:46 |
| m_3 | hard to believe though... (everybody says what we're saying here) | 19:47 |
| SpamapS | Cloud 2.0.... | 19:47 |
| SpamapS | ;) | 19:47 |
| m_3 | it's like... "no, really!" | 19:47 |
| m_3 | jcastro: I'd expect we'll have different long-form talks depending on audience? | 19:49 |
| jcastro | m_3: that's totally ripped off from Nick, but I have no shame | 19:49 |
| jcastro | m_3: yeah so I was thinking of having fragments based on audience | 19:49 |
| jcastro | and then swap out parts of the long one depending on audience | 19:49 |
| jcastro | like, I don't think sysadmins will even want or care about the long presentation, I'd want to just see a terminal and someone typing. | 19:50 |
| m_3 | jcastro:right, that's sort of the point of services though | 19:51 |
| SpamapS | they will care about the long presentation at oscon | 19:51 |
| SpamapS | lots of sysadmins and devs there | 19:51 |
| m_3 | you used to have different perspectives on this | 19:51 |
| jcastro | SpamapS: I look forward to stealing your long form one as well. | 19:52 |
| jcastro | SpamapS: actually if you have it done and want to jet me a copy that would be swell | 19:52 |
| m_3 | infrastructure meant very different things to different people | 19:52 |
| SpamapS | jcastro: I really like the idea around having 40-50 total slides, and just building presentations from those based on a few clues. | 19:52 |
| SpamapS | hahaha done hahahahaha | 19:52 |
| m_3 | high levefolks thought of services, sysadmins thought of servers | 19:53 |
| m_3 | we're bringning th two together | 19:53 |
| m_3 | jcastro: lightning's look great, lemme see what sort of notes I can come up with for longform. | 19:56 |
| jcastro | SpamapS: yeah, right now that's exactly what the 10 minute and long form one are, it's a shuffle of what I had around + more added in | 19:56 |
| jcastro | m_3: you can plop your notes right into the slide notes if you want | 19:56 |
| m_3 | definitely steal from SpamapS... | 19:56 |
| m_3 | SpamapS: how long is your talk? | 19:57 |
| m_3 | (going to be) | 19:57 |
| SpamapS | m_3: 40 min | 19:57 |
| SpamapS | I have approximately 2 slides done.. in outline form only. ;) | 19:58 |
| m_3 | jcastro: there's the answer :) | 19:58 |
| m_3 | nice | 19:58 |
| SpamapS | I actually plan to have only about 10, with a couple repeating, if I do it right. | 19:58 |
| m_3 | that what mornings are for | 19:58 |
| m_3 | SpamapS: let us know if we can help... (draw a diagram or something) | 19:59 |
| SpamapS | Heh.. this was my deck for the last Ubuntu Cloud Days.. http://spamaps.org/files/Ensemble%20Presentation.pdf | 20:00 |
| jcastro | SpamapS: I just stole it, got any others around? | 20:02 |
| _mup_ | ensemble/expose-provision-machines-reexpose r294 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com | 20:02 |
| _mup_ | Removed debugging | 20:02 |
| m_3 | SpamapS: great last slide | 20:02 |
| SpamapS | m_3: I think there are a few too many arrows and lines.. it was the first ensemble picture I painted. ;) | 20:03 |
| jcastro | we'll just get someone to do a proper awesome diagram | 20:04 |
| jcastro | once we get the content the way we want it | 20:04 |
| jcastro | so hopefully it won't look so complicated, heh | 20:04 |
| jcastro | robbiew: I'd like to go over these slides today with you too if that's ok | 20:05 |
| * jcastro is looking for any excuse to do a G+ hangout. :p | 20:05 | |
| robbiew | jcastro: heh...cool...got a 1:1 with jimbaker now...in about 30min? | 20:29 |
| jcastro | whenever is fine for me! | 20:29 |
| _mup_ | ensemble/expose-provision-machines-reexpose r295 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com | 20:31 |
| _mup_ | Removed sleeps in ensemble.state.tests.test_base and added test for client being disconnected in a watch | 20:31 |
| robbiew | jimbaker: ping :) | 20:32 |
| jimbaker | robbiew, hi | 20:33 |
| robbiew | jcastro: yo | 21:01 |
| jcastro | howdy | 21:01 |
| robbiew | ready to go, when you are | 21:01 |
| jcastro | robbiew: sure, wanna hang out? | 21:03 |
| jcastro | er, "hangout" | 21:03 |
| robbiew | sure | 21:04 |
| jcastro | started | 21:04 |
| robbiew | jcastro: so this is my big problem with G+ | 21:07 |
| robbiew | I can never figure out how to hangout | 21:07 |
| robbiew | beyond hanging with a whole damn circle | 21:07 |
| bcsaller | oh, are we hanging out? brt | 21:08 |
| bcsaller | j/k | 21:08 |
| SpamapS | jcastro: hrm, why doesn't u1's little messaging indicator tell me when you have shared something with me? In this case, it only told me that I had accepted a share.. :-P | 22:07 |
| SpamapS | seems rather silly | 22:07 |
| SpamapS | jcastro: "Ensemble Manges Services, not Machines" .. how baout "Ensemble Manages Services, not Servers" | 22:11 |
| jcastro | ooh, I like that | 22:12 |
| jcastro | SpamapS: I am heading to dinner, if you can just PM me your feedback that would be great and I can check it out when I get back | 22:12 |
| SpamapS | jcastro: Or in the morning.. no rush. :) | 22:20 |
| adam_g | that reminds me... | 22:24 |
| adam_g | im going to give a demo of ensemble at a local AWS users group. are there slides anywhere that might be of use? | 22:25 |
| jcastro | I've got some | 22:27 |
| jcastro | when is your talk? | 22:27 |
| adam_g | jcastro: thanks! | 22:30 |
| adam_g | tomorrow night :) | 22:30 |
| adam_g | SpamapS: regarding your comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ensemble/+bug/810808 , is there a way to run debug-hooks so that it can catch exec of the install hook of a yet-to-be-deployed unit in time? | 22:42 |
| _mup_ | Bug #810808: Formula install hook never completes <Ensemble:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/810808 > | 22:42 |
| SpamapS | adam_g: I think if you get debug-hooks going before the install hook it will work.. but that may be tricky as you probably can't run debug-hooks until ssh is working | 22:44 |
| adam_g | SpamapS: ssh isn't the tricky part, but deploying the service and getting debug-hooks to run before the install hook fires | 23:03 |
| SpamapS | adam_g: looks like we need a --debug-wait option to deploy/add-unit | 23:16 |
| adam_g | SpamapS: might be useful. i was actually able to catch the hook by looping while waiting on ec2 | 23:19 |
| adam_g | and it turns out, if i run the install hook manually it installs rabbit, exits and continues onto start after | 23:20 |
| * adam_g puts on his strace goggles | 23:20 | |
| SpamapS | Haha | 23:21 |
| * SpamapS has a vision of a gunner in a Mad Max / Waterworld tank preparing to mow down the unfortunate syscalls.. | 23:21 | |
| adam_g | hehe. | 23:23 |
| adam_g | which process actually execs the hooks? the machine agent or the unit agent? | 23:25 |
| SpamapS | unit | 23:26 |
| SpamapS | machine execs unit agent.. | 23:26 |
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