=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
=== dreaded66 is now known as fyrfaktry
* skaet waves14:59
skaetjibel, brendand, pitti, bjf - do we have quorum for a meeting today?15:00
jibelHi all15:00
jibelhggdh, ping15:00
skaetcoolio   looks like a good start anyhow.15:02
MootBotMeeting started at 10:02. The chair is skaet.15:02
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]15:02
skaetSRU/LTS bi-weekly synch meeting.15:02
skaetReminder, please follow the convention  of using ".." on a separate line when you've finished typing.    Also, If someone wants to comment on the last point, please "o/", so we know to wait.15:02
skaet[TOPIC] Release overview - skaet15:02
MootBotNew Topic:  Release overview - skaet15:02
skaet-- targetting July 21st for release.15:02
skaet-- new kernel was been pushed to updates late last week.   Thanks to all involved in getting this last set of bug fixes in during the freeze.15:02
skaet-- candidate images have been posted on the iso tracker.   Help testing is welcome. Please contact jibel, cjwatson or skaet if showstoppers found during testing.15:02
skaetWe've been running into some space issues on cdimage, and some of the old releases have now been moved off to old-images (thanks cjwatson!).  There is supposed to be some more disk space added as well so hopefully we won't get so crunched again for a bit.15:02
skaetThis meeting will be moving on the calendar to Tuesdays going forward.15:03
skaet[TOPIC] Kernel SRU status - sconklin or bjf15:03
MootBotNew Topic:  Kernel SRU status - sconklin or bjf15:03
hggdhI can partially fill in if needed15:04
bjfsconklin is working on it15:04
sconklinthis is kernel new prep week. We are tracking a number of regressions that have turned up after release of kernels last week.15:04
skaetsconklin,  any new regressions on the lucid kernel we need to worry about for the release?15:04
skaetgo cjwatson15:05
* skaet cjwatson followed protocol, ;) o/ after him15:05
cjwatsonwhat's the status of the various peripheral lucid kernel items on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html ?  Do we need to worry about any of them not being in -updates for 10.04.3 this week?15:05
sconklinpossibly. I just became aware of it before the meeting and haven't even looked at it yet. Stand by for the link15:05
ubottuUbuntu bug 811508 in linux (Ubuntu) "Upon updating kernel, lost ethernet networking." [Undecided,New]15:05
cjwatson(right now, if no action is taken, the default will be that none of those reach 10.04.3, and I want to check that that won't make anyone's world collapse)15:06
* skaet looking up the bug15:07
sconklincjwatson: I don't know whether it will or not. Honestly, we don;t pay much attention to the backports due to lack of time15:07
cjwatsonthere's also linux-firmware15:07
sconklinyeah, don't know about that either15:07
cjwatsonok, I'm going to assume nobody is bothered then15:07
sconklinafaik, we have to way to test the firmware package anyway15:07
cjwatsonif that's not true, let me know ASAP and get the bugs validated :-)15:07
cjwatson(at least regression-tested ...)15:08
sconklinyep, I don't know what gets tested by QA, will ask15:08
sconklinI do know that we have new backports kernels in the pipeline, and that should not affect the point release at all15:09
hggdhcurrently QA only tests security regressions, LTP, and boot on arches (bare-metal, KVM, EC2)15:10
sconklinhggdh: thanks15:10
skaetsconklin,  yeah that bug sounds like one to keep an eye on, esp. since it also has +3 people on it already.15:10
sconklinwe have at least two severe regressions in Natty that only appeared after release15:11
skaetlet us know if root cause is figured out if its something we have to respin for, or if we can release note it.15:11
skaetre: Natty,  ack.15:12
skaetbrendand,  go15:12
sconklinok, what's the deadline for respin notification?15:12
brendandsconklin - can i get bug #'s for those. want to check if it's anything we should/could have caught with our testing15:12
ubottuUbuntu bug 810400 in linux (Ubuntu) "Disks not recognized after upgrading to 2.6.38-10 " [Undecided,New]15:12
ubottuUbuntu bug 809878 in linux (Ubuntu) "Wireless network & graphics card stop working after upgrade to 2.6.38-10" [Undecided,New]15:13
sconklinThere may be more. I'm gathering now15:13
skaetsconklin,  soonest at this point.  I think we'll need to know by end of day today,  if at all possible.15:13
skaetany other questions?15:14
skaet[TOPIC] HW certification - brendand15:14
MootBotNew Topic:  HW certification - brendand15:14
brendand== Hardware Certification SRU Report ==15:14
brendand• Tested Natty kernel 2.6.38-10.46 which was released recently. Results: http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/current/natty-proposed.html15:14
brendand• Tested Maverick kernel 2.6.35-30.54 released before Rally: http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/wk25_2011/maverick-proposed.html15:14
brendand• Tested Lucid kernel for 10.04.3 (2.6.32-33.70): http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/current/lucid-proposed.html15:14
brendand• Currently testing Maverick kernel 2.6.35-30.56: http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/current/maverick-proposed.html15:14
skaetbrendand,  what's the summary from your perspective for lucid?15:15
brendandskaet - it looks fine from our point of view.15:15
skaethggdh go15:16
hggdhbrendand: how about bug 806586 -- will it be done this week (just curiosity)?15:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 806586 in linux-lts-backport-natty (Ubuntu) "linux-lts-backport-natty: 2.6.38-10.46~lucid1 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80658615:16
brendandi'm not sure if we should be testing that one15:17
brendanda normal update would only yield 2.6.32-33, right?15:18
hggdhyou have to explicitly select it15:18
brendandno, we don't have the capacity to test backports as well15:19
brendandjust the main kernel15:19
hggdhcan you please mark the task invalid so that we can release it?15:19
skaetcjwatson,  go15:19
cjwatsonthere seems to be at least one failure on every model.  I'm not sure I have an account for hwcert data to inspect the details, but is there a common factor there?15:19
cjwatson(sorry if this is a well-known thing)15:19
* skaet wonders this too15:19
brendandcjwatson - fine question. there is a test flaw that's getting fixed.15:20
=== beni is now known as Guest90100
skaetany other questions?15:21
cjwatsonok, thanks15:21
skaet[TOPIC] QA status - hggdh15:21
MootBotNew Topic:  QA status - hggdh15:21
hggdhwell, I have just been doing the kernel QA, so no news (apart from what sconklin and brendand and I already discussed)15:22
hggdhwe are on track, as far as I can see15:22
skaet[TOPIC] 10.04.3 testing status - jibel15:23
MootBotNew Topic:  10.04.3 testing status - jibel15:23
jibel * Smoke Tested Ubuntu alternate|desktop|server|dvd amd64|i386: OK15:23
jibel * English|Non-english: OK15:23
jibel * OEM: KO. Finally found the bug mentioned during last release meeting (bug 650703)15:23
ubottuLaunchpad bug 650703 in Genesi EfikaMX Support Project "oem-config-prepare works, but oem-config fails to start after reboot" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/65070315:23
jibelFix uploaded to -proposed and verified but waiting for a real image to definitely mark it verified15:24
jibelVerification of installer changes in -proposed ok.15:24
skaetThanks jibel.15:25
skaetAny concerns other than the ones mentioned so far for 10.04.3?15:25
skaethggdh,  go15:28
hggdhthis is not as much 10.04.3 (although also applies): it would be nice if HC could test backported kernels, it would vastly increase the number of different hardware we test on15:28
skaethggdh, will ask about it, and cost/tradeoff implications then.15:29
skaetgo brendand.15:29
brendandthe main reason for certification testing is to ensure our certificates still apply15:30
brendandcatching bugs etc is a good thing but doesn't extend to us testing kernels that we are not 'assuring' under the remit of the certification15:31
bjfbut are those systems not supposed to be certified to run natty and maverick kernels which is mostly what lts-backport kernels are?15:32
brendandbjf - sure, but we are testing that kernel when it goes out as a natty kernel then15:33
brendandso i guess what testing does apply between the two gets done15:33
bjfthe difference is that they have been built with lts toolchain and are running with a lucid userspace15:34
sconklinOne particular thing that does not get tested is if there is a problem with the more recent kernels on the older userspace X15:34
brendandtrue, true. in the end it comes down to resources and priorities.15:35
brendandin an ideal world etc...15:35
sconklinyep, I understand that.15:35
bjfso what are your resources and priorities? how long does it take to test a lucid kernel on the certification HW?15:36
brendandbjf - a couple of days15:37
bjfyou are currently testing lucid, maverick and natty, correct?15:38
brendandthat's right15:38
skaetbrendand, lets talk about this more a bit offline,  and see if there's a chance we can use the slots when oneiric images are broken to increase the testing of the backports?15:38
bjfare you at max capacity with that?15:38
araskaet, we are not going to test backports. Right now we don't certify them15:38
araI understand that our certification testing is useful for Ubuntu, to check how things are going in terms of hardware issues15:39
arabut in the end, we are here to certify hardware, and we have to use our resources to do it better and better everytime15:40
arawriting new tests, improving our processes, etc15:40
arabut we can't test stuff we just don't certify, just because it could be useful15:40
skaetara, suggest we take this offline then15:41
araskaet, sure thing15:41
skaet[TOPIC] General SRU status - pitti15:42
MootBotNew Topic:  General SRU status - pitti15:42
* skaet not seeing pitti15:42
skaetor martins for that matter.15:42
vish "<pitti> good night everyone!" <<  about 10mins back15:43
vishfrom -desktop15:43
skaetthanks vish15:44
skaet[TOPIC] OEM priorities - vanhoof15:44
MootBotNew Topic:  OEM priorities - vanhoof15:44
vanhoofskaet: here15:45
vanhoofskaet: we're pretty well sorted presently, we have a number of fixes we're looking forward to that have already been reviewed and ack'd for the next natty sru cycle15:45
vanhoofnothing hot presently for 10.10, or 10.0415:46
skaetthanks vanhoof15:46
skaetany questions?15:46
skaet[TOPIC] New business, last chance for general questions? - all15:46
MootBotNew Topic:  New business, last chance for general questions? - all15:46
cjwatsonjibel pretty much got it all for 10.04.315:47
skaetthanks then everyone.15:48
cjwatsonrespin in progress for that ubiquity fix; if it doesn't validate, though, we'll just drop back to the validated ubiquity currently in -updates15:48
cjwatsonin any event, there will be a respin to use only -updates15:48
cjwatsonanything not in -updates at that point won't be in 10.04.315:48
cjwatsonso if there's anything in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html you care about, speak now or forever hold your peace15:49
skaetThanks cjwatson15:49
* skaet looks around for questions....15:49
skaetok,  time to end it then15:49
MootBotMeeting finished at 10:49.15:49
hggdhthank you skaet15:49
jibelThanks skaet , good evening !15:50
hggdhbonne soiree, jibel15:50
skaetthanks vanhoof, jibel, hggdh, brendand, ara, bjf, sconklin, cjwatson, ara15:50
arathanks skaet15:50
=== brendand_ is now known as brendand_n310
* sbeattie waves17:03
MootBotMeeting started at 12:03. The chair is jdstrand.17:03
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]17:03
jdstrandThe meeting agenda can be found at:17:03
jdstrand[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting17:03
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting17:03
jdstrand[TOPIC] Review of any previous action items17:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Review of any previous action items17:04
jdstrand[ACTION] jjohansen to give jdstrand updated apparmor for testing17:04
MootBotACTION received:  jjohansen to give jdstrand updated apparmor for testing17:04
jjohansenjdstrand: ugh, sorry debugging the weekend revisions, I'll dump it on you in a little bit17:04
jdstrandjjohansen: cool, thanks. I still have a bit to work on before I'll need them. hopefully tomorrow or so is when I can dive in on them17:05
jdstrand[TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report17:06
MootBotNew Topic:  Weekly stand-up report17:06
jdstrandI'll go first17:06
jdstrandlast week I completed security-o-community work items17:06
jdstrandI started on dbus/apparmor work items and will continue to work on that this week17:07
jdstrandthis week I am in the happy place17:07
jdstrandI am preparing a ufw upload for non-network-manager work items/bug fixes17:07
jdstrandand (of course), I have another manager training class17:07
jdstrandthat is it from me. kees is out today, so, mdeslaur, you're up17:08
mdeslaurI need to test the logrotate update I have17:08
mdeslaurand will be going down the list17:08
mdeslaurthat's about it!17:08
mdeslaursbeattie: you're next17:08
sbeattieI'm on community this week17:09
sbeattieI have two embargoed issues that are due to come out this week.17:09
sbeattieI'm also taking a day of holiday on wednesday17:10
sbeattieI need to catch up on a backlog of apparmor issues.17:10
sbeattieOh, I'm also recovering a bit from upgrading my laptop over the weekend to oneiric.17:10
sbeattieI think that's it for me.17:10
sbeattiemicahg: you're up.17:10
micahgso, chromium is due for their 6 week major version update17:11
micahgI'm working on webkit this week17:11
micahgthat's it for me17:11
jdstrand[TOPIC] Highlighted packages17:13
MootBotNew Topic:  Highlighted packages17:13
jdstrandone of my work items was to identify and report on community supported packages that would be a good place for people to contribute17:13
jdstrandso, each week I'll be reporting on this17:14
jdstrandas such...17:14
jdstrandThe Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security on Freenode. The highlighted packages for this week are:17:14
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/textpattern.html17:14
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ayttm.html17:14
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/dhcpcd5.html17:14
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/freebsd-sendpr.html17:14
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xmlsec1.html17:14
jdstrand[TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions17:14
MootBotNew Topic:  Miscellaneous and Questions17:14
jdstrandDoes anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?17:15
sbeattiejdstrand: do you want to give the link in the wiki where the weekly set lives?17:15
sbeattiejdstrand: and thanks for working on that, it's a nice idea.17:16
jdstrandthe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/HighlightedPackages is updated weekly17:16
jdstrandour GettingInvolved page includes this page17:16
jdstrandand dholbach will be incorporating that into his pages/community work17:16
jdstrandmicahg: go ahead17:16
micahgthere was a question over the weekend about sun java updates in hardy, it's in multiverse, I was wondering if the team is willing to sponsor updates with a server leaning for hardy still even in multiverse17:17
jdstrandmicahg: we (the security team) will not be providing updates. sun java is in partner now, and iamfuzz is the person who is in charge of updating this, so would be the best person to ask17:18
jdstrandthat said, we would be happy to sponsor updated packages17:19
micahgjdstrand: k, thanks17:20
jdstrandany other questions?17:20
jdstrandok, thanks everyone!17:24
MootBotMeeting finished at 12:24.17:24
sbeattiejdstrand: thanks!17:24
jdstrandsure thing! :)17:24
mdeslaurthanks jdstrand17:24
=== TheDaniel0108 is now known as Daniel0108
RhondaMade it, even though they closed the venue. Did the meeting already start?19:01
Rhonda… and actually, I did remind a DMB member about the meeting, does this give extra points?  ;)19:02
persiaHeh.  No, but it increases the chances that we *can* have the meeting.19:02
macooh hello19:02
RhondaHe is over here at debconf, we started talking a few hours ago, and he said "Oh, there is a meeting tonight?" :)19:02
stgraberLaney, bdrung: ping19:03
Rhondacody, actually19:03
RhondaI like the aspect of putting faces to names in such conferences. :)19:04
stgraberso, that's persia, maco, bdrung, geser and I. Looks like we have quorum ;)19:04
Rhondastgraber: I would hope cody tries to come on soonish19:04
bdrungRhonda: look at my launchpad account, there is a small picture19:05
macoi havent sent out the results of the last meeting. i think everyone's voted on that last application now, so:  are we sticking with the tabulation procedures persia wrote up on the mailing list in evaluating that one?19:06
Rhondacody will be online any moment. :)19:06
RhondaHe is sitting infront of me right now.19:06
persiamaco, The last meeting consisted of Laney and I being depressed that nobody else showed up.19:06
persiaOh, the last actual meeting.  Nevermind :)19:07
macothe last one that wasnt on a "yay its a holiday i dont have to go to work and get to sleep in!" day ;)19:07
Rhondacody-somerville: say hi :)19:09
macocody-somerville: hello goodbye hello19:09
cody-somervilleHello :)19:09
cody-somervilleHave we started yet?19:11
persiacody-somerville, Not effectively.19:11
persiaCould we start?  Who is chair?19:11
* cody-somerville only has like 40 minutes of battery.19:12
cody-somervilleI can chair19:12
MootBotMeeting started at 14:12. The chair is cody-somerville.19:12
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]19:12
cody-somerville[topic] Rollcall19:13
MootBotNew Topic:  Rollcall19:13
=== beni is now known as Guest27522
cody-somervillebdrung, Laney, geser, stgraber: ping19:14
* stgraber waves19:14
cody-somervilleLaney looks away so we19:15
cody-somerville'll begin.19:15
cody-somerville[topic] Administrative Matters - Temporary resolution: Endorse Emmet's voting summary in the interim pending TB feedback19:15
MootBotNew Topic:  Administrative Matters - Temporary resolution: Endorse Emmet's voting summary in the interim pending TB feedback19:15
* persia auto-recuses19:15
cody-somervilleEmmet's summary matches my recollection of the agreement reached by members of the board during our first term.19:15
bdrungcan you post the link to his mail?19:16
cody-somerville[LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/private/developer-membership-board/2011-July/000529.html19:16
MootBotLINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/private/developer-membership-board/2011-July/000529.html19:16
cody-somervilleSince there was some confusion about our voting procedure and the original agreement was never officially documented, Emmet is moving to have the current board endorse the voting summary as written in his e-mail pending any feedback from the TB regarding their current review of the operation of the board.19:17
persiahttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-July/000956.html is a bit easier to get to for most folk19:18
cody-somervilleI'd like to call the vote. If the board votes in the positive, we'll move forward with meeting. If the board votes against, I'll call the meeting to a close until we can agree on our voting procedure.19:19
stgrabersounds good19:20
persiaAnd I'm *not* moving that the current board approve that: if people want something else, that's fine.  I just don't want there to be confusion about the current system.19:20
geserone question19:20
geserif all 7 members are present and 4 vote +1 and 3 vote -1 that would result in a +1 and a deferral19:21
persiaAccording to the procedure set previously, yes.19:21
cody-somerville[vote] Agree that our current voting procedure is as described by Emmet via e-mail (ref: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-July/000956.html)19:22
geserif only the four members are present that voted +1, that would result in +4 and the application approved without question the missing members, right?19:22
MootBotPlease vote on:  Agree that our current voting procedure is as described by Emmet via e-mail (ref: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-July/000956.html).19:22
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot19:22
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting19:22
cody-somervillegeser, Unless they already voted by e-mail19:22
MootBot+1 received from cody-somerville. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 119:22
MootBot+1 received from bdrung. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 219:22
persiageser: Yes, although it is expected that any non-attendees would object by mail prior to the interview if they had objections and didn't expect to attend.19:22
MootBot+1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 319:23
persiaIf DMB members aren't reviewing applications prior to the interviews, we're probably doing it wrong.19:23
* maco is re-reading19:23
cody-somerville(What does E mean btw in the numbering of the applicants?)19:24
cody-somervilleoh, e-mail19:24
MootBot+1 received from maco. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 419:24
geser+1 even if I would prefer to have a voting system which doesn't depend on how many members are at a meeting (the case I mentioned above is constructed and unlikely to happen)19:26
MootBot+1 received from geser. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 519:26
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 519:27
persiageser: How does this system depend on how many people show up?19:27
persiaIt certainly wasn't intended to do so, and if it does, then it needs to be changed.19:27
cody-somerville[AGREED] Current DMB voting procedure is as described at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-July/000956.html19:27
MootBotAGREED received:  Current DMB voting procedure is as described at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-July/000956.html19:27
cody-somerville[TOPIC] Ubuntu Contributing Developer Applications - Juan Negron19:29
MootBotNew Topic:  Ubuntu Contributing Developer Applications - Juan Negron19:29
cody-somerville[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JuanNegron/UbuntuContributingDeveloper19:29
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JuanNegron/UbuntuContributingDeveloper19:29
cody-somervillenegronjl, Are you here?19:30
persiaHrm?  I'm still concerned about the statement that the voting procedure depends on meeting attendance.19:30
persiaCan we resolve that first?19:30
cody-somervilleCan we take it to the ml? I'm running out of battery.19:31
cody-somervilleDidn't we already process Juan Negron and Marc Cluet at the last meeting?19:31
geserI'm happy to move it to the ML. That way I've more time to word it properly (and also notice any errors in my thinking).19:32
macoMarc went to the mailing list19:32
negronjlI'm here cody-somerville19:32
persiaOK.  I'll just say that if results of the system do depend on meeting attendance, I'm against that system.19:33
=== ejat- is now known as ejat
cody-somervillenegronjl, Can you introduce yourself and your contributions to Ubuntu?19:33
geserpersia: it might only happen in border-cases, but those are that one cause the problems about how to interpret the voting19:34
bdrunggeser: i agree that non attending dmb member are a problem in the current voting system.19:34
negronjlHi all.  My name is Juan Negron.  I currently work for Canonical with the Systems Integrations Group.  I am currently contributing to Ensemble (lp:ensemble), Principia (lp:principia), Orchestra (lp:orchestra) and Orchestra Modules (lp:orchestra-modules).19:34
cody-somervillenegronjl, So Launchpad says your first sponsored upload to Ubuntu was on June 8th 2011, is that correct?19:36
bdrungnegronjl: when did you began packaging?19:36
negronjlcody-somerville:  Sounds about right.  It should be facter-plugins or orchestra ( and modules )19:37
negronjlbdrung:  I started packaging a few years back but nothing that has been uploaded....that I started when I started in Canonical in Dec.19:37
cody-somervillenegronjl, And you created your application for UCD on June 13th, 2011 - right?19:38
negronjl...bdrun:  Dec. 201019:38
cody-somervillenegronjl, When did you join Canonical btw? I don't think we've had a pleasure of meeting before.19:39
negronjlcody-somerville:  not sure of the dates...I've been working on packages for the above mentioned projects for a while so, they could have been ready before but uploaded then....the dates sound about right though19:39
negronjlcody-somerville:  I started on Dec. 201019:39
negronjlcody-somerville:  Worked for zaid_h and now kirkland19:39
persianegronjl, Could you describe what you believe to be the relationship between the orchestra project and the Ubuntu project?19:39
cody-somervillenegronjl, What sort of contributions did you make to Ubuntu before starting work on ensemble?19:40
negronjlpersia:  Orchestra is the mechanism to deploy Ubuntu server onto bare metal...Using cobbler, pxe booting, etc.19:40
negronjlcody-somerville:  Orchestra and Orchestra-modules.  In the 1.x branch, I did facter-plugins ( facter-customfacts-plugins ) and all of the puppet recipes as well as some of the integration work with lynxman19:41
cody-somervillenegronjl, and before that?19:41
persianegronjl, So, do you believe Orchestra and Ubuntu to be one project, or separate-but-parallel projects?19:42
negronjlDec. ( when I was hired ).  I was working with lynxman in the development of the toolchain that will  later be integrated in Orchestra ( the original name was sitoolchain ).  The toolchain was based on puppet and mcollective with a log of "glue" code to "orchestrate" deployment in EC2, UEC and OpenStack19:43
negronjlpersia:  I see Orchestra as a deployment and orchestration mechanism to deploy Ubuntu Server.   Orchestra is the tool that gets Ubuntu Server deployed in bare metal quickly and effortlessly so the admins can go about their business.19:44
negronjlas a side note.  Orchestra will work with Ensemble ( that work is being done right now )19:44
persiaI understand that.  Do you believe them to be part of the same project, or do you see Orchestra as a project to deploy the output of the Ubuntu project?19:45
negronjlpersia:  separate projects with a very parallel development and deployment cycle ( after all, Orchestra is mainly managed by the server/platform team )19:45
gesernegronjl: is Orchestra Canonical funded and do you expect to continue packaging it the next couple months?19:46
negronjlgeser:  Orchestra as a project I believe it is but, I have to be clear about this.... .It is an open source project.  The main focus is to get it out right now and the people most interested in it's development at the moment happen to work for Canonical however, I ( and others ) are going to diff. conferences and promoting Orchestra ( and Ensemble ) to gain community support and development.19:47
persianegronjl, So, if Orchestra is separate from Ubuntu, would it be correct to say that your contributions to Ubuntu consist of delivery of orchestra software to Ubuntu (orchestra, orchestra-modules), and patch contributions for facter-plugins and dotdee?19:48
negronjlgeser:  As an example, I did a presentation at Structure/2011 where a Ben Saller ( Ensemble ) and myself did a talk about Orchestra and Ensemble19:48
negronjlpersia:  ... and principia but, more or less, you can distill my package and bug contributions down to that level...yes.19:49
cody-somervilleAny other questions?19:49
* persia has one, but needs another minute19:49
negronjlgeser:  I am also scheduled to talk at CouchDB where we will be (again) talking about Orchestra and Ensemble as orchestrations for Ubuntu Server19:49
negronjlas another side note:  With or without Canonical, I intend to continue my contributions to Ensemble, Principia, Orchestra, orchestra-modules and facter-plugins  just the same19:50
persianegronjl, How do you feel about your experience of social integration with the Ubuntu Development community?19:51
macoWhat do you think would be the next step for you?  PPU for orchestra-related packages?19:51
negronjlpersia:  re: social integration  ... I'm getting there .. there's a lot of ground to cover and could be quite overwhelming if taken all at once....19:52
* cody-somerville has 19 minutes of battery left.19:52
bdrungi am ready to vote19:52
negronjlpersia:  re: next step...PPU for the packages belonging to the projects I work with ... that would be nice19:52
* persia is done with questions19:53
stgraberI'm ready to vote too19:53
cody-somerville[vote] Ubuntu Contributing Developer Applications - Juan Negron19:53
MootBotPlease vote on:  Ubuntu Contributing Developer Applications - Juan Negron.19:53
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot19:53
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting19:53
persia-1 : I think the contributions are strong enough, if we assume that Orchestra and Ubuntu are the same project (as I prefer to believe).  Given the lack of belief by the applicant that these are contributions to Ubuntu, I am uncomfortable granting the applicant the authority to speak on behalf of the Ubuntu project.19:54
MootBot-1 received from persia. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -119:54
persia(as contributions after subtracting Orchestra work are small)19:54
bdrung+0 it's not enough packaging done and only one month past since the first upload. he has done a lot of upstream work, but this does not count in this application19:55
MootBotAbstention received from bdrung. 0 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -119:55
MootBotAbstention received from geser. 0 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -119:55
MootBotAbstention received from stgraber. 0 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -119:55
cody-somerville-1 : Would like to see additional work sponsored into Ubuntu (or additional uploads via PPU) as well as greater integration with wider Ubuntu community.19:58
MootBot-1 received from cody-somerville. 0 for, 2 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -219:58
cody-somervillenegronjl, I'd like to encourage you to apply for PPU for the ensemble related packages you maintain after you get a few more sponsored uploads.19:59
gesernegronjl: did your sponsors suggest to apply for UCD or did you decide it yourself?19:59
negronjlgeser:  my sponsors suggested it.19:59
MootBotAbstention received from maco. 0 for, 2 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now -220:00
kirklandnegronjl's sponsors are baffled by what counts as a contribution to Ubuntu any more20:00
macoi think with a few more uploads to those specific packages, skipping straight to PPU might be possible, but at the moment since it's only been aobut a month of packaging type stuff in ubuntu, i'm abstaining20:00
macokirkland: you missed my explanation of my vote, so i'll repeat it20:01
macoi think with a few more uploads to those specific packages, skipping straight to PPU might be possible, but at the moment since it's only been aobut a month of packaging type stuff in ubuntu, i'm abstaining20:01
geserkirkland: what would you count to Ubuntu *development* contributions?20:01
persiakirkland, What is baffling?  My concern is that negronjl clearly said that Orchestra was not Ubuntu, so when discounting that, there's not much left.  I don't happen to believe that Orchestra *should* be enough separate from Ubuntu for there to be a distinction, but I do expect that people applying for membership believe that their contributions are contributions to Ubuntu.20:02
bdrungkirkland: most of his work is upstream work20:02
kirklandgeser: let's take this offline;  I don't want to derail your meeting again, I'm sorry.20:02
geserI try to understand where the view of sponsors don't match the view of the DMB (related to the voting discussion on the TB list)20:02
cody-somervilleI find it difficult to be comfortable approving someone for UCD when they filed their application for it a few days after their first upload being sponsored into Ubuntu.20:03
cody-somervilleSponsorship is a core component of our model of contribution. There may be new ways to contribute to Ubuntu these days but I don't think the DMB is sufficiently familiar with how to measure those contributions.20:04
persiakirkland, I'd rather resolve this sooner.  If you feel there's a huge disconnect, then it's better to have that discussion *before* we move on, so that there's no chance if it being lost.20:04
cody-somervilleWell, I have 8 minutes of battery. :P20:04
cody-somervilleand Gerfried Fuchs is waiting patiently across the table from me.20:05
cody-somervilleand AndreaVeri is just renewal20:05
geserRhonda: find some power for cody-somerville if you want to see your application processed today :)20:05
macoI must admit some ignorance to what this Ensemble thing is. I now kinda get what Orchestra is after negronjl's explanation...sounds like kickstart but maybe push instead of pull?  But I'm not really sure how these new Canonical products tie into Ubuntu itself and so don't know if this is more like being involved with Ubiquity or more like being involved with Launchpad. Does that make sense?20:06
Rhondageser: Unfortunately we are sitting in a bar at the street corner because the hotel network is … well … "fuzzy", and the hacklab is closed tonight because of a concert in the venue20:06
cody-somervillemaco, I think so. They're questions we should definitely be asking.20:06
=== Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-nom
kirklandmaco: those are excellent questions, and probably at the core of this;  we're working our butts off on Ensemble, Orchestra, CloudFoundry, and their countless dependencies, and failing to gain recognition for those contributions20:07
cody-somervillemaco, and since we never say no, just 'come back later', I don't feel horrible about deferring applications like negronjl's until we and the larger Ubuntu community figure that out.20:07
macoI'm getting an impression that is more like #ubuntu-app-devel than like #ubuntu-devel20:08
kirklandpersia: I would rather discuss this at a different time than now, as I fear my judgment is clouded at the moment and the conversation may fail to reach its most productive20:08
bdrungi feels a little like a native package20:08
MootBotFinal result is 0 for, 2 against. 4 abstained. Total: -220:08
highvoltagekirkland: fwiw I think the work you're doing is really cool though! It is indeed a pity that some of the people who act like rock stars get all the attention though :)20:08
persiakirkland, That's fair.  Please don't let this slip: I'd really like to discuss it with you.20:08
kirklandpersia: when/where/how should this conversation continue?20:09
cody-somervillekirkland, I think ubuntu-devel would be appropriate.20:10
cody-somerville[topic] PerPackageUploader Applications  - Gerfried Fuchs20:10
MootBotNew Topic:  PerPackageUploader Applications  - Gerfried Fuchs20:10
kirklandcody-somerville: thanks20:10
persiakirkland, Easiest for me is to chat in IRC, probably in your afternoons or evenings.  A ML thread on devel-permissions might make sense if it's sufficiently generalied that we don't end up leaving records of too much specific criticism of individuals.20:10
cody-somerville[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GerfriedFuchs/DeveloperApplication20:11
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GerfriedFuchs/DeveloperApplication20:11
cody-somervilleI believe this application was already voted on by Laney.20:11
RhondaYes, Laney voted on the list.20:11
cody-somervilleFor public record, his vote was in the affirmative for this application.20:11
cody-somervilleRhonda, Please introduce yourself and what you're applying for.20:12
* cody-somerville notes that he has zero minutes of battery left and may go offline at any moment. :)20:12
RhondaI am a Debian Developer since years, and a MOTU since last year.20:12
RhondaI've done sync requests for a fair amount of packages over time, mostly ones I am related to in my Debian area, but also for packages that other give me a query.20:13
RhondaI am applying for PPU for beep, logcheck and irssi because those are not covered by MOTU upload rights, they are in main, and I am involved in their development.20:14
* maco laughs at ScottK's testimonial20:14
RhondaYes, I can be … a bit shy at times, when it comes to these things. I don't like to pester people too hard to not get onto the nerves of others.20:15
cody-somervilleRhonda, Are you sufficiently familiar with the main freeze policies?20:15
RhondaI understand that they happen earlier because they are wanted to be tested over a longer period of time.20:16
macoRhonda: sounds like the same reason none of my sponsors have ever sponsored > 1 package for me that i know of :P20:16
persiaWe have main freeze policies?  Could someone point me to a reference?20:16
cody-somervilleRhonda, Are you subscribed to the Ubuntu dev ml? ie. Are you notified when freezes are put into effect?20:16
RhondaNot yet, but I do regularly consult the ReleaseSchedule page in the wiki.20:17
geserpersia: I assume cody-somerville means the general freezes and also the main soft-freezes20:17
maco"ask first"20:17
persiaI still don't believe we have soft-freezes for "main", but quite possibly.20:17
micahgwell, it's not just main, but anything on an image20:18
bdrungsoft-freezes for packages on the disk20:18
gesermicahg: right, I should learn that main == cd image is not true anymore or simplify it to "main"20:19
cody-somervilleI'm ready to vote.20:19
macoi thought that was supposed to /become/ true with the reorg?20:19
macoanyway, me too20:19
persiamaco, Yes, by making "universe" go away.  Still needs work.  Help appreciated.20:19
* persia has no questions for Rhonda related to beep, irssi, or logcheck20:20
macopersia: archive reorg is a bit of a black box to me. no idea how to help. wouldn't mind an explanation in #u-d20:20
persiamaco, So, grab me about 10 minutes after the end of the meeting.20:20
bdrungRhonda: why didn't you apply for core-dev? ;)20:20
cody-somerville[vote] PerPackageUploader Applications  - Gerfried Fuchs20:21
MootBotPlease vote on:  PerPackageUploader Applications  - Gerfried Fuchs.20:21
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot20:21
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting20:21
MootBot+1 received from maco. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 120:21
MootBot+1 received from bdrung. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 220:21
MootBot+1 received from cody-somerville. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 320:21
MootBot+1 received from stgraber. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 420:21
cody-somerville(my battery light is blinking now, so I think I'm really close to losing power)20:21
persia+1 : log history of caring for all three packages in Ubuntu20:21
MootBot+1 received from persia. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 520:21
Rhondabdrung: I like to not put too much burden onto my shoulders before I am able to make some space for it. I would feel responsible for not doing more where I am already touching my boundries.20:21
MootBot+1 received from geser. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 620:22
MootBotFinal result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 620:22
cody-somervilleRhonda, Congratulations. Your application has been approved.20:23
RhondaCheers. Want to use my laptop to continue? I have plenty of battery left  ;)20:23
macooh. there's an idea20:23
cody-somervillehaha, once mine dies, sure. Wanna see how long it'll go fo20:23
bdrungi hope that and wont take long to process20:23
macodid it died mid-word?20:23
cody-somerville[TOPIC] MOTU Applications - AndreaVeri (RENEWAL)20:24
MootBotNew Topic:  MOTU Applications - AndreaVeri (RENEWAL)20:24
highvoltagecody-somerville: have you run powertop and set all that 'bad' flags to 'good'? that usually extends my battery life significantly when it's running out20:24
bdrungmaco: why should it send the message if it dies while typing20:24
cody-somervillehighvoltage, yup but it started complaining this release about advanced debug flag being disabled20:24
cody-somervillebdrung, I think it was a joke ;)20:24
cody-somervilleand`, are you here?20:25
and`cody-somerville, hey, sure :)20:25
cody-somerville[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndreaVeri20:25
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndreaVeri20:25
cody-somervilleand`, Please introduce yourself and your application.20:25
geserand`: when you did you expire?20:27
and`I become a MOTU in 2007 uploading around 200+ packages and sponsoring dozens. I founded the Ubuntu P2P team and worked to improve p2p-related packages for many months. I was part of the backporters team as well. Apart from that I am a DD, mostly working on GNOME packages and mozilla extensions packages.20:27
bdrunggeser: one year ago20:27
and`geser, around an year ago20:27
cody-somervilleand`, Why did your membership expire?20:27
and`cody-somerville, I left Ubuntu development for a while and moved to Fedora. I then decided to leave Fedora and get back to the origins. I didn't like some bits of Fedora, its community and its structure.20:29
and`if I have to spend some of my free time contributing to an open source project, it must be one I really care of / use.20:30
and`and Fedora wasn't the right place for me.20:30
persiaand`, In what areas do you expect to work in Ubuntu once you are again a developer?20:30
* cody-somerville is ready to vote (based on our current precedent of renewing expired membership liberally if nothing else).20:31
bdrungi am ready to vote, but the questions are interesting. i want to hear the answers.20:31
and`persia, I would love focusing on sponsoring and reviewing other people's work and packages together with GNOME packages and if I'll be able to revive the p2p team, anything else related to that.20:31
and`but I plan to spend some time on REVU, on the sponsorship queue, on mentoring.20:32
macocody-somerville: as i joked to bdrung:   "have you turned into a saboteur? no? ok!"20:32
persiaand`, Have you been following the changes in the way we sponsor stuff?20:32
* cody-somerville grins.20:32
* cody-somerville thinks persia has good questions (as usual).20:33
* maco isn't sure *which* changes persia means...20:33
bdrungand`: do you think that REVU is the best place for new packages?20:33
and`persia, I saw many things changed on that side (i.e the ubuntu-universe-sponsors team is no more there), yes, but I plan to review all the new guidelines and procedures on the wiki asap.20:33
bdrungand`: heard of patch pilots?20:34
persiamaco, When you look in the mirror every day, you see few changes.  If you take a picture, and wait a year, you'll see more.20:34
* persia idly notes that being a patch pilot is not required to sponsor, but the work of patch pilots is much appreciated.20:35
and`bdrung, I alwais thought REVU was a very nice software for new packages, I definitely prefer it to Debian mentor's. You can comment on stuff, you can get more opinions on a specific package and most of all you need two acks for a package to be uploaded20:35
bdrungpersia: patch pilots changed a lot in sponsoring20:35
cody-somerville[VOTE] MOTU Applications  - AndreaVeri (RENEWAL)20:35
MootBotPlease vote on:  MOTU Applications  - AndreaVeri (RENEWAL).20:35
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot20:35
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting20:35
MootBot+1 received from cody-somerville. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 120:35
MootBot+1 received from maco. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 220:35
MootBot+1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 320:35
MootBot+1 received from stgraber. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 420:35
bdrungand`: but wouldn't it be better to get new packages to debian first?20:36
MootBot+1 received from bdrung. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 520:36
macobdrung: i feel like they just made it possible for sponsors to go "oh  yay! someone knocked off 1/4 of the queue!"20:36
and`bdrung, definitely yes :)20:36
macowhat id see as a bigger change in sponsoring is the addition of UDD merge proposal sponsory stuff20:36
and`bdrung, straight sync is usually the right way of doing things :)20:36
MootBot+1 received from persia. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 620:36
bdrungmaco: i am waiting that you mention sponsor-patch! ;)20:36
MootBotFinal result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 620:36
macobdrung: i keep forgetting that exists20:37
macoim still doing it the manual way :P20:37
cody-somervilleand`, Welcome back!20:37
and`thanks guys :) I have one fast questions: is the backporters team still up and running?20:37
bdrung... and welcome back! ;)20:37
MootBotMeeting finished at 15:37.20:37
bdrungand`: yes, but it needs more man power!20:37
Rhondaand`: Yes, and looking for people to join, from what I understood20:37
cody-somervilleThanks everyone!20:38
RhondaIf you could join and through that speed up my backports offers, that would be great :)20:38
macoRhonda: can't you join too?20:38
and`awesome, I'll get in touch with John Dong for joining back :)20:38
Rhonda… which brings me back to irssi, there is a backport pending. Or … wait, no, that was done already. But an update. :)20:38
persiaRhonda, So, the invitation to join also extends to people with vast history of backporting :p20:38
Rhondamaco: See what I formerly responded to bdrung about core-dev application. :)20:39
gesercody-somerville, Rhonda: have fun in the bar celebrating Rhonda's PPU rights20:39
persiaBut the speed of processing backports is mostly limited by backports-testers, not backports-developers (although people in both categories are to be especially thanked)20:39
cody-somervillegeser, Good idea! Rhonda: buy me a round of drinks! :P20:39
macoRhonda: but if you're doing the backports already and then just waiting for backport *sponsors*...20:39
bdrungcody-somerville: that's not allowed, because it's corruption. :p20:40
macocody-somerville: seems your battery lies to you20:40
bdrungmaco: my laptop battery lies in the wrong direction.20:40
cody-somervillemaco, I like to think of my battery as like the train who could ;)20:41
Rhondamaco: Weelll...  I would potentially not ACK my own backports requests. We also don't do that in Debian neither.20:41
micahgand`: ScottK would be the person to talk to for Ubuntu Backports20:41
and`micahg, thank you, will get in touch with him :)20:41
Rhondapersia: I'm ignoring you intentionally :P20:42
RhondaNo, I really need to sort out some things first before extending my responsibilities. I somehow naturally feel too responsible in areas that I enrolled to, and I want to get some of the "older" areas into better shape to feel comfortable to extend to new ones.20:44
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
=== Ursinha-nom is now known as Ursinha
LaneyRhonda: congrats :-)22:30
Laneyand apologies to the rest of you. My girlfriend got back from some time away today so I was with her.22:30

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!