[00:22] <greg-g> rick_h_: what is your montly data usage on your phone?
[00:23] <greg-g> snap-l jcastro ditto ^
[01:05] <snap-l> I have no idea
[01:05] <snap-l> Mine is a company phone, so I don't get the bill
[01:24] <greg-g> ah, gotcha
[01:27] <rick_h_> greg-g: I'm about 1GB a month
[01:27] <rick_h_> I try to stay on wifi though
[01:27] <rick_h_> wife is around 300MB/mo
[01:27] <jcastro> mine is 1.6ish total
[01:27] <rick_h_> and that's not tethering, I've not done tethering in a few months since I went to arch
[01:28] <rick_h_> not set it up yet, so that's just music streaming, web, podcasts, etc
[01:28] <jcastro> lol
[01:30] <greg-g> :)
[01:30] <greg-g> thanks all
[01:33] <jrwren> i think i'm like 200MB/mo. often less.
[01:33] <jrwren> also no tethering, just a tiny bit of web on phone & stupid stuff like 4sq
[01:34] <rick_h_> jcastro: posted on your monitor arm thread in G+. Let me know if you want some pictures from the rear or anything on those
[01:35] <jcastro> you think a galant's wood would be enough to hold them?
[01:35] <jcastro> I am concerned about snappy breaky
[01:35] <rick_h_> I'm using them on the jerker replacement
[01:35] <rick_h_> works fine here
[01:35] <jcastro> ah
[01:35] <rick_h_> they clamp onto the low shelf above the laptop dock
[01:35] <jcastro> oh, that little looking one?
[01:35] <jcastro> seems like alot of weight
[01:36] <jcastro> but if it works on the jerker then mine should be fine
[01:36] <rick_h_> I can get some movement on the monitor, but it's the desk not the arms
[01:36] <rick_h_> the monitors aren't that heavy these days
[01:36] <rick_h_> and it's pretty spread out, the clamp is really large as well
[01:36] <rick_h_> spreads it out
[01:36]  * jcastro nods
[01:37] <rick_h_> but yea, no fear of breaking the lovely fake wood
[01:37] <jcastro> heh
[01:37] <jcastro> I am just debating it 3 seperate or one mega-array is the best way to go
[01:38] <rick_h_> so I went separate first so that I could move full range
[01:38] <rick_h_> but also, I can reuse them
[01:38] <jcastro> yeah
[01:38] <rick_h_> if I get a display too big, I can make one for the wife
[01:38] <rick_h_> or take it into the office, etc
[01:38] <jcastro> plus I can do some panels lengthwise if I want to
[01:38] <rick_h_> I've got a big one at the office that does two and it's just big and kind of ugh
[01:38] <rick_h_> yea, my left display is portrait
[01:38] <rick_h_> kind of liking that on it
[01:39] <rick_h_> but the only thing there is that you tend to look down/up and the colors can be off if the monitor doesn't have a great angle range
[01:39] <rick_h_> amazing how tall a 22" display can be
[01:39] <rick_h_> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dEP9D6kaw-8/TW-8UGbn5HI/AAAAAAAAArE/_1BIs442hrA/s144/IMG_20110303_110148.jpg
[01:39] <rick_h_> is my work best thing
[01:40] <jcastro> hmm
[01:40] <rick_h_> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-M2Ppncph0yc/TUwgxPjjniI/AAAAAAAAAqE/QugoA_jz8T4/s144/IMG_20110204_105123.jpg and a better shot when I just had two of the arms
[01:40] <jcastro> how do you rotate one monitor in X?
[01:40] <rick_h_> /best/beast
[01:40] <rick_h_> xrandr --output DP1 --mode 1280x1024 --rotate left
[01:40] <rick_h_> the --rotate does it
[01:41] <jcastro> does that work with nvidia?
[01:41] <rick_h_> xdock: aliased to xrandr --output LVDS1 --off --output DP1 --mode 1280x1024 --rotate left && xrandr --output VGA1 --mode 1920x1080 --right-of DP1
[01:41] <rick_h_> no idea, this is intel
[01:41] <rick_h_> ^^ is the full dock xrandr command I have aliased for both displays
[01:41] <jcastro> aha
[01:41] <jcastro> 	Option	"RandRRotation"	"on"
[01:41] <jcastro> and then xrand -o left
[01:42] <rick_h_> cool
[01:42] <jcastro> -o normal -o right -o inverted
[01:42] <jcastro> sounds perfect
[01:42] <rick_h_> right
[01:43] <rick_h_> but I like those arms enough to get 3 of them, cheaper than some of those with better range of motion, but good compromise for the price imo
[01:43] <rick_h_> and <3 arms, nice to have the shelf space/better adjustment
[01:43] <snap-l> rick_h_: I think you're on what's called a Frederik, right?
[01:44] <rick_h_> snap-l: yea
[01:44] <rick_h_> that sounds about right
[01:44] <snap-l> It's about the same thickness as a a Gallant
[01:44]  * snap-l is way too expert on Ikea desks. ;)
[01:44] <rick_h_> yea, I mean it's about 1" thick wood matter
[01:45] <snap-l> Doug from Music Manumit told me to check out thie metal band on the WFMU podcast
[01:45] <snap-l> They play CC music on there.
[01:46] <snap-l> This is the band http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/45007
[01:46] <snap-l> Check the review. ;)
[01:46] <rick_h_> awesome
[01:49] <snap-l> I get around (oh-wee do do do do wee do do)
[12:15] <rick_h_> sshhhhhh
[12:28] <_stink_> yeah
[12:30] <snap-l> Yeah, no kidding
[12:30] <brousch> i love how quickly i can recover from a dead HD
[12:31] <brousch> it took about 3 hours to install the os and all the programs i need, then overnight dropbox synced across the lan
[12:32] <rick_h_> nice
[12:40] <snap-l> http://plaintextoffenders.com/
[12:40] <snap-l> This is a site that shames sites that use plain text passwords. ;)
[12:50] <snap-l> rick_h_: That SQLAlchemy vs Django's ORM page is pure gold
[12:50] <rick_h_> snap-l: yea, great write up
[12:50] <rick_h_> reminds me of the bash vs zsh stuff
[12:50] <rick_h_> "Look, they can both do this and that...but only zsh can do YYY"
[12:50] <snap-l> Yeah, it's great because it's clear where each has strengths without being snide
[12:51] <rick_h_> yea, he's good at that
[12:53] <snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/07/mac-os-x-lion-a-visual-introduction.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss
[12:53] <snap-l> Christ, Apple's got Unity now.
[12:53] <rick_h_> pretty much
[12:54] <snap-l> Also, the scrollable list of mails on the left paradigm for mail? Hate.
[12:57] <snap-l> Williek13: Not sure if you can read this, but you keep connecting and disconnecting.
[13:11] <Williek13> sorry about that...I'm on the outskirts of wireless connection in my office at work...I drop and gain connection all day
[13:18] <Wolfger> \o/  I'm finally back
[13:18] <Wolfger> Lost connection before I could send my witty reply to rick_h_  :-(
[13:20] <Wolfger> re:"sshhhhhh" I was going to say that we all decided to stfu&c finally.
[13:26] <snap-l> Man, my boss is driving me insane
[13:27] <snap-l> She's a project manager, in the "what are you doing right now" sort.
[13:30] <Wolfger> "what are you doing right now?"  "Taking time out of doing something productive to give a status report"
[13:30] <Wolfger> ...or, "Nothing. Why?" :-D
[13:54] <snap-l> Well, she's looking for me to give a presentation to "knowledge share" what it is that I do
[13:54] <snap-l> to a bunch of people who fucking developed the system
[13:55] <rick_h_> .lol
[13:55] <rick_h_> "knowledge share" I can appreciate
[13:55] <rick_h_> "what you do" seems a bit of an interesting combo with that
[13:55] <snap-l> What do I add to this? I sit on a forum and answer developer questions
[13:56] <snap-l> about THE SHIT THAT YOU ALL DEVELOPED
[13:56] <rick_h_> "I protect you from stupid people, you can send cookies to: xxx forest road..."
[13:56] <snap-l> I had a call yesterday with my second-level support about forum coverage. I flat out told him "yeah, and if you run into a problem, you'll want to escalate with [his name here]
[13:57] <snap-l> I mean, this is not rocket science
[13:57] <snap-l> About the only special sauce I've added to this is writing some test code in Python
[13:58] <snap-l> and actually figuring out some things that some of the customer developers didn't know (ie: that you can't send everything as application/octet-stream and expect a phone to do something useful with it)
[13:59] <Wolfger> Out-of-context quote of the day: "That child could be doing so much more with his life, instead of walking around with a cock in his hand, waiting to fight"
[13:59] <Wolfger> http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/07/19/washington.dog.fighting.vick/index.html?hpt=hp_bn4
[14:00] <snap-l> Wolfger: Heh
[14:00] <snap-l> That's a beaut
[14:00] <snap-l> "To see the young kid walking with the cock, you know, was astonishing," Vick said. "It was taking place in a similar setting of what I've been around before.
[14:26] <jcastro> greg-g: lol nm, last month I used 2.6gb
[14:26] <jcastro> jill used like ..... 200mb
[14:32] <jcastro> hmmm, I better preload my U1 music while I am on wireless
[14:51] <greg-g> jcastro: gotcha
[14:52] <greg-g> jcastro: I'm looking at the various plans and trying to optimize everything, it is so freaking hard!
[14:55] <rick_h_> greg-g: welcome to the pita that is firstworldproblems
[14:56] <rick_h_> now you nkow why everyone just wants an unlimited plan regardless of actual usage
[14:56] <greg-g> yeah, looks like sprint is the only true unlimited plan there is
[14:57] <greg-g> everyone else throttles you after X amount
[15:03] <jcastro> greg-g: what carrier are you on?
[15:04] <greg-g> right now, sprint, but I'm a free agent
[15:05] <jcastro> ok
[15:05] <jcastro> well, I am on an unlimited family plan on Tmo
[15:05] <jcastro> it's like $130 for the 2 of us (after taxes and all that crap)
[15:05] <brousch> nice, alot cheaper than verizon
[15:06] <jcastro> well, it's a euro-style plan
[15:06] <jcastro> cheaper per month, full price on phones
[15:06] <greg-g> yeah, verizon is looking like the most expensive one right now, from my research last night
[15:06] <brousch> we have 700mins talk, "unlimited" data on vzon for like $175/mo after fees and taxes
[15:06] <rick_h_> yea, it is
[15:06] <jcastro> you can go more cheaper per month on contract
[15:06] <rick_h_> I moved there, but best phones/service
[15:06] <jcastro> but screw that
[15:06] <_stink_> yeah, we're $155 on AT&T for 2 lines, data, 700 mins
[15:06] <jcastro> brousch: I have unlimited data, 1500 minutes
[15:07] <jcastro> but we don't come close to the minutes
[15:07] <brousch> 700 was the fewest they would give us. we use about 70
[15:07] <_stink_> hah
[15:11] <jrwren> ouch
[15:11] <jrwren> although we are probably about the same.
[15:11] <jrwren> maybe I won't get a new smart phone.
[15:11] <jrwren> maybe I'll go back to dumb phone
[15:11] <greg-g> jcastro: how's tmo with throttling after their soft cap?
[15:11] <jrwren> save some $$$
[15:11] <jcastro> I don't think I've hit it
[15:11] <greg-g> gotcha
[15:11] <jcastro> it's ok, since you're on tmobile you're on edge alot anyway. :p
[15:12] <greg-g> lol
[15:12] <jcastro> berkley is like a huge deadspot for me
[15:12] <jcastro> but I hear it's nice and 4g on the west coast
[15:12] <greg-g> see, I'm looking for something that I can use on the road trip out there for conf calls, email, gps, and basic web
[15:12] <greg-g> jcastro: berkeley, ca?
[15:12] <jcastro> no, MI
[15:12] <jcastro> I hear it's awesome in CA
[15:13] <greg-g> cool
[15:14] <brousch> yes, we have 4g
[15:14] <brousch> though i don't own a 4g phone
[15:14] <brousch> i went with vzon because they have much better coverage outside of the west MI cities
[15:15] <brousch> so when i visit family in ravenna and fremont, i still get 3g
[15:15] <brousch> ATT fails there
[15:16]  * greg-g nods
[15:18] <jrwren> 4g phones are pretty rare, aren't they?
[15:18] <jrwren> pretty great world when 3g is considered failing.
[15:25] <snap-l> OK, so I had a discussion with my boss, and cleared things up
[15:26] <snap-l> Also, the whole data cap thing for phones is stupid
[15:26] <snap-l> I'm really sick and tired of things like bandwidth being charged as though they were gold nuggets
[15:27] <snap-l> greg-g: You might want to go with a tracfone for the move
[15:27] <snap-l> just to get your bearings and not commit to a contract
[15:28] <snap-l> tie that in with a Google Voice number so folks can get a hold of you.
[15:28] <Wolfger> Bandwidth is worth its weight in gold. And then some. Considering it weighs nothing....
[15:28] <snap-l> Well, I'm not going to begrudge them profit for bandwidth
[15:28] <snap-l> but what I hate is the incessant capping as though it were something like water or electricity
[15:29] <snap-l> or minutes on a phone
[15:29] <snap-l> I don't get cut off of my phone service because I talk too much
[15:29] <snap-l> they gladly charge me for overages if there are any
[15:31] <snap-l> curious what unlimited voice would look like if someone called someone and left the phone off the hook for 24 hours, 7 days a week
[15:31] <snap-l> that would be an interesting case for someone to try
[15:37] <Wolfger> Not on AT&T...
[15:38] <Wolfger> carrier would drop
[15:38] <Wolfger> :-D
[15:38] <jrwren> ITS A SERIES OF TUBES!
[15:38] <Wolfger> it's totally tubular, dude
[15:39] <snap-l> Seriously, it's like the AOL $BUGNUM hours free that exceeded a month
[15:40] <snap-l> unlimited has a very strange meaning nowadays.
[15:40] <snap-l> Like the buffet "all you can eat" which becomes "all I think  you should have"
[15:44] <snap-l> Hmm, there's some oddball color management on this thinkpad
[15:44] <snap-l> seems whenever I bring up a window, it'll try to balance things out
[15:45] <snap-l> rather disconcerting when I bring up something that's all green.
[15:45] <Wolfger> snap-l: all-you-can-eat has a bandwidth cap. They will only bring it to your table so fast....
[15:48] <Wolfger> I deal with that at my local restaurant on Friday AYCE Perch...
[15:49] <Wolfger> they bring 6, and I ask for a reorder instantly, then they bring 3 more and i reorder again, they bring 3 more....
[15:49] <Wolfger> and I wind up with a lot of time spent waiting for food, rather than eating food
[15:49] <snap-l> Wolfger: That's because they're hoping you'll fill up
[15:49] <Wolfger> and they're right
[15:49] <snap-l> because it takes about 10+ minutes for your body to adjust
[15:50] <_stink_> now i am extraordinarily hungry
[15:50] <Wolfger> because they leave a freaking bread basket on the table
[15:50] <snap-l> a-yep
[15:50] <Wolfger> and while I'm waiting for more fish, I have a breadstick
[15:50] <Wolfger> or 2
[15:50] <snap-l> so you eat cheap bread instead of expensive perch
[15:50] <Wolfger> or 3
[16:03] <Williek13> if you drink water with the bread it doesn't expand as much as soda etc
[16:03] <Williek13> fills u up less
[16:03] <Wolfger> ?
[16:03] <Wolfger> I'm going to Mythbusters with that one...
[16:04] <Williek13> i remember reading it somewhere....I think it was on the hotdog eating contests
[16:04] <_stink_> i love those guys
[16:04] <_stink_> and gals
[16:05] <Wolfger> ok... I think that's really a gas of "water isn't carbonated, so it won't make you feel bloated"
[16:05] <Williek13> yeah i think your right
[16:05] <Wolfger> s/gas/case/  sheesh
[16:06] <_stink_> you have gas on the brain.
[16:07] <Williek13> out of curiousity...anyone have any experience with EMC for Lynix?
[16:11] <snap-l> My only experience with EMC is that it's fast, and you pay for the privilege
[16:12] <Williek13> i ment the CNC software? (Enhanced Machine Control)
[16:21] <Williek13> is that what you were referring to snap?
[16:22] <snap-l> No, I was referring to the storage company
[16:22] <snap-l> http://www.emc.com/products/category/storage.htm
[16:22] <snap-l> Interesting, didn't realize that iomega was now part of EMV
[16:22] <snap-l> EMC, even
[16:23] <Williek13> ah ic...sorry should have been more specific
[16:24] <snap-l> np
[16:40] <Wolfger> http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/20/leopard-killed-after-mauling-six-in-india/?hpt=hp_c2
[16:41] <Wolfger> I particularly like picture #5, in which the man in the foreground has run right out of one of his sandals... Like he could actually outrun the cat?
[16:45] <Blazeix> wow, those images are stunning
[17:03] <Wolfger> I totally did not get today's Google doodle at all. I'm so glad you can click it to Google the explanation. :-)
[17:05] <jrwren> EMC is fast?
[17:05] <jrwren> that is laughable IMO.
[17:06] <jrwren> scalable informatics stuff is fast and a fraction of the price.
[17:06] <jrwren> I guess EMC COULD be fast if configured well. IME its usually not configured well.
[17:08] <snap-l> jrwren: Well, it's faster than just hooking up some drives via USB. :)
[17:16] <jrwren> omg.
[17:16] <jrwren> USB???
[17:17] <jrwren> who would do that?
[17:17] <Wolfger> snap-l would...
[17:17] <Wolfger> XD
[17:18] <greg-g> if all you have a USB connection on your laptop, I guess any reasonable person would :)
[17:20] <Wolfger> Yes, for laptop storage space, USB drive is the way to go
[17:20] <rick_h_> esata *cough*
[17:21] <Wolfger> $$$ *cough*
[17:21] <rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/Acomdata-Tango-2-5-Inch-Enclosure-TNGXXXUSE-BLU/dp/B001XHBNN2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1311182476&sr=8-3
[17:21] <rick_h_> yea, $20, so $$ vs usb
[17:21] <snap-l> Too ugly.
[17:22] <snap-l> Also need an esata connection on my computer
[17:22] <rick_h_> lol, there's no diff in the esata vs usb external disks, tons do both anyway
[17:22] <snap-l> and needs to be purple.
[17:22] <snap-l> And match my decor
[17:22] <snap-l> and make people go "oh, ah" when they enter my lair.
[17:22] <Blazeix> and work with his new macbook air.
[17:22]  * snap-l looks for the $60 Mac version
[17:23] <rick_h_> lol
[17:23] <rick_h_> on both accounts
[17:24] <Wolfger> rick_h_: One thing stands out to me on that page.... "You Save: 	$0.02 " WTF?
[17:24] <Wolfger> LOL
[17:24] <snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003B4CVYA/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=decafbadnet-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399373&creativeASIN=B003B4CVYA
[17:24] <snap-l> THere we go
[17:24] <snap-l> This one says "Hi, let's play with your data."
[17:24] <rick_h_> yea, I carry 3 of those with my laptop everywhere I go
[17:24] <rick_h_> never play with your data
[17:25] <snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013LRLUM/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=decafbadnet-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399369&creativeASIN=B0013LRLUM
[17:25] <snap-l> I'd need a matching Mac Pro to go with this
[17:25] <rick_h_> ah, that's good, a 50% mac looking tax
[17:26] <snap-l> Hey, aluminum isn't cheap
[17:27] <snap-l> I mean really, do you you want your peripherals to look like crap?
[17:27] <snap-l> I don't
[17:27] <rick_h_> they're not room decoration
[17:27] <rick_h_> put them under a shelf
[17:27] <rick_h_> or behind a picture frame
[17:29] <snap-l> You should do an image search on ugly PC cases
[17:29] <snap-l> there's a few that are priceless.
[17:29] <snap-l> also, says you. my hardware is decoration
[17:29] <snap-l> only because the room is so damn small. :)
[17:31] <snap-l> and I like good looking hardware. Always have. I hate those plastic piece of shit cases that some PCs hve that look like they were the love-child of Optimus Prime and a toaster
[17:31] <rick_h_> everything should be black and rackable
[17:32] <Wolfger> Hey, I like Optimus' love-child
[17:39] <jrwren> rick_h_++
[17:40] <jrwren> also, its why I bought a 640GB disk in my laptop 2 yrs ago :)  I don't need extra laptop storage space
[17:43] <greg-g> until it crashes on you
[17:43] <greg-g> then you want that external backup
[17:49] <jrwren> i backup to NAS whenver I'm home.
[17:49] <jrwren> gigabit is almost a nice as esata.  definitely better than USB
[17:50] <brousch> We should all be backing up to UbuntuOne
[17:50] <jrwren> sounds $$$$
[17:52] <brousch> $3/mo/20GB i think
[17:53] <Wolfger> grrr
[17:53] <Wolfger> I have "self" loathing
[17:54] <Wolfger> who ever thought "self" was a good idea?
[18:05] <ptenhoopen_> brousch:  That's all when and good but then you hit your ISP's bandwidth cap.
[18:06] <ptenhoopen_> Or they throttle you so when you want to restore it, it takes 3 months!
[18:06] <brousch> that's when you go to GRPUG and shlepp off of calvin ;)
[18:06] <ptenhoopen_> Comcast is starting to cut off people's access for exceeding their caps.
[18:07] <brousch> or sit in metro's lobby for a day and use their oc3
[18:07] <ptenhoopen_> They give 1 or 2 warnings and then ban you.
[18:07] <ptenhoopen_> That's an idea
[18:07] <ptenhoopen_> One guy was banned for a year.
[18:08] <ptenhoopen_> Ridiculous!
[18:08] <brousch> but really it's just the initial upload that's a problem, unless you generate a ton of data yourself
[18:08] <ptenhoopen_> That's true of course.
[18:09] <brousch> you can also use your work internet
[18:09] <ptenhoopen_> Sometimes
[18:09] <ptenhoopen_> Not all systems are laptops!
[18:09] <ptenhoopen_> Anyway, just saying.
[18:10] <ptenhoopen_> Everyone has a cloud solution but the ISP puts the breaks on it.
[18:14] <brousch> bastards
[18:15] <snap-l> Well, that's a nice little lesson
[18:15] <snap-l> rebooted my machine remotely, but unfortuantely it hangs
[18:55] <snap-l> Wow, there's some really interesting ideas in OSX Lion
[18:56] <snap-l> very radical
[18:56] <brousch> other than the unity ripp-offs?
[18:56] <snap-l> Yeah, like saving files automatically, and using version control to manage changes between versions of documents
[18:57] <snap-l> and automatic termination, so you don't have to care what's running, and if you're nearing running out of memory, it'll terminate unused applications until you go back to it
[18:57] <snap-l> extremely interesting ideas.
[18:58] <brousch> your new mac air is the mail already?
[18:58] <ptenhoopen_> The memory management sounds like Android.
[18:58] <snap-l> Heh, not really
[18:58] <snap-l> Yeah, it's borrowing a lot from iOS
[18:59] <snap-l> Also sandboxing applications
[19:00] <snap-l> Earlier, the Mac App Store was suggested as a way Apple might expedite the adoption of new Lion technologies. In the case of sandboxing, that has already happened. Apple has decreed that all applications submitted to the Mac App Store must be sandboxed, starting in November.
[19:00] <Blazeix> oh, didn't they have that file snapshot thing already?
[19:00] <Blazeix> I thought that was built into their filesystem or something
[19:01] <snap-l> Well, this is taking something like time machine and adding another layer
[19:01] <snap-l> so you don't necessarily have to save the document, it's just saved
[19:01] <snap-l> and you can go back versions of that document
[19:05] <krondor> snap-l:  how is that memory management different from android?  It reads exactly like android to me... I'm trying to find some detailed links to get more info
[19:06] <snap-l> krondor: I think you misread me. I was saying "Not Really" to brousch's Mac Air comment
[19:07] <krondor> snap-l:  ahh got it, scrollback misfire
[19:07] <snap-l> The memory stuff is interesting. They're forgoing garbage collection
[19:07] <snap-l> instead they handle it compile time.
[19:07] <snap-l> so there's no separate thread going around freeing memory.
[19:08] <krondor> that is interesting
[19:08] <snap-l> Yeah, pages 10 and 11 of the Ars Review cover that
[19:08] <snap-l> pretty interesting stuff
[19:11]  * krondor should have thought to check ars first before hitting apple and google
[19:12] <snap-l> Yeah, they have a really good review
[19:12] <snap-l> one of those reviews that makes me want to subscribe
[19:12] <jrwren> taht is not true.
[19:12] <jrwren> there is still GC
[19:13] <snap-l> jrwren: reference counting is not GC
[19:13] <jrwren> no no.
[19:14] <jrwren> i mean GC is optionally there for devs.
[19:14] <jrwren> apps not using it is not uncommon, most C/C++ apps don't use GC
[19:14] <snap-l> Correct, but they're making it so that you don't have to use GC.
[19:14] <snap-l> This is in the Objective C code
[19:15] <jrwren> i don't understand your statement.
[19:15] <jrwren> you've never had to use GC
[19:15] <snap-l> Did you read the article?
[19:15] <snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2011/07/mac-os-x-10-7.ars
[19:15] <jrwren> yup.
[19:16] <jrwren> and much of what teh author is b.s.
[19:16] <jrwren> at least from a dev POV
[19:16] <snap-l> explain, please.
[19:16] <jrwren> not sure who this guy is, but it seems like he is not a dev.
[19:16] <snap-l> the most I've seen of Objective C is some hello world examples.
[19:17] <jrwren> i've written iphone apps :)
[19:17] <jrwren> its typical ARS stuff, injecting crazy conclusions based on no evidence pointing to them.
[19:18] <jrwren> but that is typical of devs too I guess. They hear something is new so assume the last thing that was new is now old.
[19:20] <jrwren> like my obj-c guru friend says... using the release pool is not hard :)
[19:25] <jrwren> in fact, after reading the dev centric stuff on that ARS lion review and knowing how wrong it is, I can't trust anything else in that article, so I'll skip his similar speculations on the filesystem and otehrs.
[19:26] <snap-l> jrwren: That's pretty harsh.
[19:37] <jrwren> its a matter of trust.
[19:38] <jrwren> i honestly feel that i cannot trust this person.
[19:46] <greg-g> jrwren: that last point "easy to learn" on http://whygitisbetterthanx.com/ is false. Git is *not* easy to learn. BZR is much easier.
[19:47] <greg-g> jrwren: at least to my feeble mind
[19:54] <jrwren> disagree via experience.
[19:54] <jrwren> i did bzr first, then git.
[19:54] <jrwren> and 3 yrs ago, yes, bzr was easier.
[19:55] <jrwren> but git docs and command ahve come a LONG way
[19:55] <jrwren> and git encourages certain workflows, which once you grok them, REALLY do make great sense
[19:55] <jrwren> and once you grok them, going back to hg or bzr from git is not fun.
[19:57] <greg-g> hmm
[20:07] <snap-l> Yeah, I have to agree
[20:07] <snap-l> git makes good practices very easy
[20:07] <snap-l> ie: branching
[20:38] <snap-l> Nice... this rest service requires XML.
[20:38] <snap-l> shoot me
[20:41] <jrwren> lots of rest responses are xml.
[20:41] <ColonelPanic001> <action type="gunshot">BANG!</action>
[20:42] <snap-l> Are lots of rest requests XML?
[20:42] <snap-l> ie: essentially posting XML to a rest URL?
[20:43] <snap-l> Because I need directions here in bizarro-world.
[21:15] <FireZen> !
[21:23] <snap-l> rick_h_: Turntable.fm is hiring.
[23:53] <rick_h_> well so much for getting our group on the 'calendar'