lubotu3Ubuntu bug 730617 in unity (Ubuntu) "When using scale/expose, windows don't keep their order" [Undecided,Incomplete]02:30
ali1234^ everyone vote for this bug please :)02:30
ali1234and this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/79141202:41
lubotu3Ubuntu bug 791412 in unity (Ubuntu) "Does not switch to right desktop upon launcher click, when target application is side-window-snapped" [Medium,Triaged]02:41
ali1234and this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/77261202:46
lubotu3Ubuntu bug 772612 in compiz (Ubuntu Natty) "maximized window is displaced" [High,Triaged]02:46
ali1234those are my top three most annoying unity bugs :)02:46
ali1234that last one claims to be fixed in "unity 3.8.16 SRU2" whatever that means02:50
ali1234i have 3.8.16 installed; it's still broken02:50
shaunopopey: you're on ios5 beta I believe? tried the g+ app?07:03
HazRPGali1234: Hmm, your actually using 11.04? I'm still on 10.10, updating applications that need updating manually or through ppa's.07:04
diplo-Morning all07:05
HazRPGdiplo-: morning :)07:06
MooDoohi all07:07
TheOpenSourcerermorning all07:10
BigRedSgood morning!07:16
MooDoomorning BigRedS07:21
DJonesMorning all07:26
bigcalmMorning kids :)07:46
BigRedSAh, morning MooDoo07:56
popeyshauno: yes :D08:02
popeyshauno: there was an update to the G+ app on IOS last night08:02
shaunoah.  handy.  because it was pants on mine.  was curious if it was me, or ios5 :)08:03
shaunohm.  it's not offering me an update.  I expect the irish store's a bit 'behind'.  would be apropos08:21
oimonwow, hotot has just received quite a big UI update08:25
ali1234speaking of UI updates08:28
ali1234what happened to calibre in natty?08:28
ali1234it used to have a fairly decent UI08:28
gorddoes anyone have any idea how you can get xchat to not randomly copy bits of irc all the time?08:28
MartijnVdSgord: copy? as in put in the pastebuffer?08:28
MartijnVdSgord: don't randomly select text all the time :)08:29
gordMartijnVdS, right, that bit is dumb, how do i get it to not do that08:29
gordselecting is not the same as copying!08:29
MartijnVdSgord: well, not really.. but select + middle click > select + copy + paste08:29
gordMartijnVdS, click irc window, oh no now my entire copypaste buffer is destroyed with random irc crap is not fun08:30
gordit allows unintentional destruction08:30
ali1234speaking of intentional destruction08:30
ali1234why does the "add repository" dialog always clear the clipboard?08:31
MartijnVdSali1234: because you haven't filed a bug about it?08:32
ali1234it's been this way for years i always assumed it was intentional08:32
ali1234what's the name of that software sources program?08:33
ali1234it's the same thing used by software center and synaptic08:33
MartijnVdSali1234: apt-add-repository oid?08:33
MartijnVdShm, I'm mixing languages here.. "oid" = "of iets dergelijks" = "or something" :)08:33
shaunoso 'dergelijks' would be akin to 'of the like' ?08:35
shaunoor the like .. mayhaps08:35
ali1234well that's interesting. it doesn't happen if i run it stand alone with gksudo08:35
bigcalmpopey: what's the power usage of the HP server compared to the Revo?08:36
ali1234oh wait yeah it does08:36
ali1234it clears the selection buffer, not the clipboard08:37
lubotu3Ubuntu bug 813948 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "software-properties-gtk clears selection buffer when adding a repository" [Undecided,New]08:43
=== chalcedny is now known as chalcedony
popeyMorning all09:21
MooDoomorning popey09:23
MooDooand hugs for Myrtti :D09:23
JGJoneshaving read on twitter about numerous people upgrading to osx lion - I just realised...to upgrade to the server version it's another $5009:24
voidspaceJGJones: a lot less than it used to be though...09:25
JGJonesand apparently that comes with Xsan Clustered File System - which Apple used to charge thousands for09:25
voidspacespeaking of filesystems09:25
voidspacewhat should I use for a new server box - ext4, btrfs?09:25
JGJonesAm imaging - you could make a cheap SAN with thunderbolt and disk array that support iSCSI making use of xsan?09:26
JGJonesvoidspace, I'll pick ext409:26
voidspaceJGJones: seems reasonable09:27
voidspaceJGJones: getting Ubuntu server onto the HP Proliant Microserver was beautifully easy09:27
JGJonesvoidspace, the reason due to its stability. I don't know enough about btrfs to use it on a server09:27
voidspaceJGJones: right09:28
oimonbtrfs isn't mature yet, fsck can't fix errors even09:28
bigcalmGood greif HDDs are slow. Never going back from SSD now. This is going to get expensive09:28
voidspaceJGJones: I'm going to RAID 5 the disks with mdadm first09:28
voidspaceoimon: sounds like a reason to use ext409:29
BigRedScan libparted interfere with ext4 yet?09:34
BigRedSor whatever the frontent that comes with ubuntu is09:34
czajkowskiGood morning09:51
BigRedSgood morning!09:52
MooDooczajkowski, no aloha?09:53
oimonaloe vera09:54
MooDooczajkowski, that's better, i know it's you now :D09:58
davmor2morning all09:58
davmor2morning MooDoo you plaquing czajkowski already09:58
* davmor2 gives czajkowski a big hug to annoy her some more09:59
* TheOpenSourcerer Just watched Atlantis land for the very last time.10:00
MooDoodavmor2, i was showing my concern10:00
MooDooTheOpenSourcerer, rats missed it10:00
czajkowskinow I'm happy http://twitpic.com/5tes4610:16
czajkowskiyes indeed10:19
brobostigongood morning everyone.10:20
MooDoowhy is having a baby so stressful lol10:22
bigcalmThis machine's crashy problems are starting to annoy me.10:22
davmor2MooDoo: cause where would the fun be if it wasn't ;)10:26
MooDoodavmor2, i'm stressed out now lol more bloodtests for the misses, kidney functions now :S10:27
davmor2MooDoo: ha ha! ;)10:28
MooDoodavmor2, not funny10:29
davmor2MooDoo: I hope everything it alright10:29
davmor2is even10:29
MooDoodavmor2, i'm sure it will be but i'm a big worryer :D10:29
davmor2MooDoo: I think you always are when it's the better half too be honest10:29
MooDoodavmor2, and the new nipper10:31
bigcalmWah, Twitter OAUTH is making my brain itch10:45
MartijnVdSItch? It made mine bleed...10:48
bigcalmI've had too much or too little coffee10:51
bigcalmNot sure which it is, best just keep drinking10:51
dwatkinsI considered setting up a script to post to twitter from an application I run, but OAUTH made it so I needed a month to get my head around it.10:52
MooDoopopey, are you not interested in awards or just that one?10:56
popeyi am under no illusion that we'd win for starters10:56
Davieybigcalm: Yeah, i miss simple auth.10:57
BigRedSmy twitter scripts use a single set of developer keys, which seems to work10:59
BigRedSI've no idea how you're supposed to do it - this worked and so I stopped trying to get my head round it10:59
bigcalmThis is the library I'm using in PHP http://www.jaisenmathai.com/articles/twitter-async-documentation.html11:01
bigcalmIt helps an amazing about, but it's still not a 5 min exercise11:01
Davieybigcalm meet python-mechanize. :)11:02
bigcalmDaviey: I should learn me this Python some day11:02
Davieybigcalm: or use perl mechanize.11:02
bigcalmSo, use anything but PHP?11:02
Davieybigcalm: Is that deprecated now?11:03
bigcalmDaviey: it is paying for me to attend Oggcamp, so thankfully not yet11:03
Davieybigcalm: seems so.. i just tried to use php.. and got an error.. how can i hide it?11:06
Davieyahh!  I can append ~E_DEPRECATED11:07
DavieyYeah, seems to hide the deprecation warning if i hide deprecation warnings11:08
bigcalmNutta :P11:14
dogmatic69anyone know how i can put one mysql table in a ramdisk?11:18
BigRedSyou could mount a ramdisk at /var/lib/mysql/dbname?11:19
BigRedSthere's probably a more sensible way of doing it, though11:19
MooDooczajkowski, please stop with your bad jokes on twitter ;)11:20
dogmatic69BigRedS: that might just work11:21
dogmatic69hope it does not corrupt everything :S11:21
Davieydogmatic69: if you want REALLY fast writes, you should write to /dev/null.. it's must faster than a ramfs.11:21
dogmatic69Daviey: its for the dest database11:21
dogmatic69not production :D11:21
dogmatic69the thought did cross my mind, but SELECT * FROM /dev/null throws missing table errors for some reason11:22
Davieythen you are doing it wrong.. the data store and schema should be able to be split.11:24
dogmatic69the test writes a row, and then tests that its there.11:24
dogmatic69to /dev/null it would never be there11:25
Davieyah! you said it was throwing missing table errors11:25
dogmatic69it would :D11:25
Davieydogmatic69: Use the 'memory' storage engine then.11:26
dogmatic69Daviey: for the tests, it uses the same exact schema as the production. you cant change the engine for the tests as you will not be testing it properly11:27
BigRedSDaviey: that's cheating.11:27
BigRedSit depends what the 'it' you're testing is11:27
Davieydogmatic69: Well under the covers it == MyISAM.11:28
dogmatic69and memory indexes dont work the same way that innodb does11:28
dogmatic69ew, who uses myisam :P11:28
Davieywho uses mysql for production these days? :)11:29
dogmatic69people that have real computers and dont use ruby11:29
gordczajkowski, and you call me odd :P11:31
AlanBellit isn't a zero sum game, you can both be odd11:32
czajkowskigord: no I say you're special11:33
czajkowskiwhy am I odd....11:33
gordtwitter :P11:35
gordi can't reply to twitter so i have to reply via irc11:35
czajkowskiwhy cant you reply to twitter....11:35
popeyone word11:36
gordhey hey, its only because i'm using the in-development new version :P11:36
czajkowskioh me and gwibber had a falling out, so I've poked the nice ken as I cant even launch it11:36
gordi'm on O, i expect things to be broken11:36
gordnew gwibber is pretty much the greatest though11:37
MooDoogord, is it just one page or can you extend it to show all feeds abit like tweetdeck?11:37
MooDooie multiple columns11:37
gordMooDoo, i'v no idea :) i don't like to use things like that though so i'v not tried11:38
davmor2gord: except when you want to reply, launch it from the messaging menu, and it uses 98% of the cpu when fetching.  then it rocks hard :D11:38
gordthere is a bug with converting the backend model in to the frontend model, but ken's working on it :)11:39
davmor2gord: oh and if you want to translate a message11:39
gordtranslate a message?11:39
czajkowskigord: use web so :)11:40
czajkowskihttp://twitpic.com/5tes46  SO DAMN TASTY11:40
davmor2gord: in old gwibber if you have friends like Ursula that send out tweets in spanish you could click on the cog in the message and click translate this and it did can't in the new one :(11:41
dogmatic69ok, i think ive mounted this thing to a ramdisk.. how can i confirm this?11:41
gorddavmor2, you could? crazy, i don't think it would be too hard to add, poke ken :)11:42
davmor2gord: already a bug for it along with the rest :)11:42
BigRedSdogmatic69: umount the ramdisk and see what breaks?11:46
dogmatic69BigRedS: it will just degrade to the normal hdd11:46
BigRedSand find an empty directory11:46
dogmatic69if there is something in the folder when creating the ramdisk, that will not be removed, i should hope11:47
dogmatic69i would think it coppies from the path -> ram and then goes about as per normal11:48
BigRedSI'd do mv /var/lib/mysql/dbname /somewhere/dbname; mount ramdisk; mv /somewhere/dbname/* /var/lib/mysql/dbname12:00
BigRedSelse you'll never retrieve that space, and you'll have *horrible* confusion if MySQL ever starts without the ramdisk12:00
dogmatic69ill put the ramdisk in bootup script somewhere12:00
BigRedSand have the boot fail if for some reason it can't mount it?12:06
BigRedSif you leave old data knocking around, if for whatever reason mysql starts and has no ramdisk it'll just write the data to the old db and you'll have no idea unless you particularly ask it12:07
dogmatic69that is fine12:07
BigRedSfor the non-hassle of emptying that dir, it makes no sense to keep it full12:07
dogmatic69its a test db12:07
dogmatic69it gets truncated before a test starts12:07
BigRedSin fact, it'd be easier to set up if it's somewhere else...12:07
BigRedSah, fair enough. just disposable data12:07
dogmatic69the data is in fixtures that gets inserted into mysql before the test12:08
ubuntuuk-planet[Tony] OggCamp 11  its happening - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/04/13/oggcamp-11-its-happening/12:13
dogmatic69BigRedS: its about 30% faster on the ram disk12:15
oimonanyone know of a fix i can apply to a windows box connecting to a samba server that requires DOMAIN/user as the login?12:30
oimoni want it to use DOMAIN by default. they are on a workgroup rather than a domain12:30
JGJonesI have no idea where my phone is and this is increasingly common for me12:41
Kirrusphone ut?12:41
oimonbuy a tablet instead, so it's harder to lose :P12:42
JGJonesyeah I have a tablet - that's why my phone keep getting mislaid12:42
JGJonesKirrus, it doesn't make any noise12:42
brobostigonput prey on it. so you can text it, and it makes loads of noise, and gives its gps position, so you can find it.12:43
KirrusJGJones: give up and use landlines12:43
JGJoneshttps://market.android.com/details?id=com.koushikdutta.desktopsms - this app is what make me lose my phone all the time - there's no need to keep it on me to check for messages :)12:43
JGJonesbrobostigon, yeah I have prey on it. GPS tells me it's at home.12:43
gordsomeone should make an app that can use the microphone to pick up on the phrase "where the <expletive of your choice> is my phone?" and make it start making a noise12:43
brobostigonJGJones: hmm, ok.12:43
JGJonesNoise - never thought of that...will have to wait for my kids to get home from school so they can hear for it for me.12:44
brobostigongord: i have a ringtone like that, it says. "its the wife calling, its the wife." in a firm but soft voice.12:44
JGJonesmake you pick up quickly?12:44
brobostigonJGJones: not really, just for the humour really.12:45
JGJonesI have a similar thing to you brobostigon - got an app called Contact Vibrate - assign different vibration pattern to contacts - so the wife get a long and rather annoying vibration (no reference to her character, it's to ensure I actually feel it vibrating and can answer...smartphone vibration aren't that strong)12:46
oimonno one else rings me except my wife, that's how i know it's her.12:47
JGJonesthe DeskSMS app although is great...get a SMS, it goes to your email/jabber chat12:47
oimonwe usually have an arrangement that she hangs up after 2 rings anyway12:47
BigRedSAh, saves the conversation that way :)12:47
brobostigonJGJones: ah, interesting. i dont actually have a partner, i just have it to make me laugh.12:49
dwatkinsI'm still hoping someone will make a Morse code ringtone app, to play the first 5 letters of people's names when they call.12:52
shaunoyou know you're a geek ..12:52
JGJonesdwatkins, not quite the same thing - but the contact vibrate app can do that - vibrate in a morse code pattern12:53
BigRedSsurely by now it'd just read out their names?12:53
=== n3hima_ is now known as n3hima
dwatkinsJGJones: excellent12:53
JGJonesOr you can use these - https://market.android.com/search?q=morse+code+ringtone :D12:54
dwatkinswow, didn't see those before, cheers :)12:55
shaunoI guess you could fake it by creating a different ringtone for each person.  doing it automagically would be serious nerd cred tho12:55
dwatkinsshauno: that was my plan :D12:55
shauno(not just geek.  nerd.  in my book, if you cna copy anything more than 'cq' you're totally into pocket-protector territory)12:55
JGJoneshttps://market.android.com/details?id=net.kgmoney.MorseRing - look like this will do that as ringtone or as vibrate etc12:56
JGJonesNot free - it's about 60p12:56
dwatkinsyeah, I was just reading that JGJones :)12:56
=== WorMzy2 is now known as WorMzy
andylockranset my mother up on ubuntu last night13:08
andylockrananother #mumbuntu for popey's checklist.13:08
dwatkinshooray, andylockran13:08
andylockranher mac mini had gotten ridonkulously slow.13:08
dwatkinsI didn't know Macs had that trouble.13:09
JGJonesThey do get slow - unless you shove in as much RAM as you can13:10
awilkinspopey, My dear old grey haired mum is on Ubuntu also13:18
awilkinsMaverick, not Natty. Didn't want to scare her too much with Unity.13:19
dwatkinsJGJones: ah I see, I thought it was like the DLL issues Windows tends to experience after much installing and uninstalling over the years13:21
JGJonesdwatkins, no idea if they suffer from OS Rot like Windows - but generally they don't. But as you upgrade to next version...then yup, they get slower13:22
awilkinsThings wot load themselves into the Explorer process are horrible in Windows13:22
awilkinsAs are virus scanners13:23
dwatkinsVirus scanners are a necessary evil, though.13:23
awilkinsWe switched from Symantec to McAfee at work - went from about 4% cpu usage during file access to more like 40%13:23
awilkinsThat's more than necessary evil13:23
dwatkinsOh right, yeah - that's unacceptable, awilkins.13:23
dwatkinsWe use Mcaffe at work, I just put up with it as I have no choice.13:24
awilkins(I run without a virus scanner at home - I just don't visit dodgy sites or transact any kind of business with Windows)13:24
awilkinsOnly play games on my Windows install now13:24
awilkinsSo the worst malware I've got is game DRM13:24
popeyI will probably upgrade my mum to natty soon13:24
dwatkinsiAntiVirus was using loads of CPU on my Macbook Pro at one point, I had to disable it so it didn't do that every time the machine came out of sleep.13:24
gordmy version of windows might as well just be called SteamOS13:25
davmor2gord: haha nice13:25
* AlanBell doesn't use virus scanners at work13:25
oimonmcafee doesn't actually detect viruses anymore, in my experience13:25
popeyyeah, same here13:25
awilkinsIf only they did Windows For Games as opposed to Games for Windows13:26
dwatkinsIsn't that what the Xbox is for?13:27
gordin a way, but without the most important component, a mouse13:28
awilkinsTrue, but XBox has some flaws. i) I only have 1 television, which the wifelet likes to monopolize ii) they don't release all the good PC games on console13:28
awilkinsAnd yes ; mouse input is important13:28
dwatkinsYou can get a VGA cable for the xbox.13:29
awilkinsFair enough ; A Kinect would be incompatible with my matchbox of an office though :)13:29
gordi wish onlive would make a version for ubuntu, that would be great13:30
dwatkinsYeah, I prefer to play my games sitting down.13:30
gordplay windows games from linux, without the problems of compatibility :)13:30
awilkinsI still have grave doubts about Onlive as a concept13:30
dwatkinsgord: I suspect with it only having a tiny percentage of the desktop market, they just don't see the need.13:30
popey"OnLive Is Hiring More Engineers For Linux Client"13:32
gorddwatkins, 1% of windows gamers might think its a good idea, but i'm sure a much larger percentage would think its a good idea for linux13:32
dwatkinsWhat percentage of the desktop market does Ubuntu have at the moment?13:33
gordeightymadeup percent13:33
gordwhy would you even ask that? ;)13:33
dwatkinsThe figure I remember was  closer to 5%.13:34
gordthat figure was made up13:34
BigRedShow's it calculated?13:34
gordall figures are made up13:34
dwatkinsBigRedS: by browser header info13:34
BigRedSnice and representative sample13:35
popeyno way are we at 5%13:35
BigRedSAccording to slashot stats BSD's probably at 12% or something13:35
dwatkinsI don't know of a better way to determine OS distribution.13:35
BigRedSwell, you'd at least take an average of a bunch of sites13:35
ali1234ask everyone you know IRL what they use13:35
gordlinux is pretty big in china these days, that would really inflate our statistics, but at the same time, potentially untrackable13:36
BigRedSbut even then you'd accept that you're leaning heavily towards people who browse a lot13:36
gordits all just made up, but its certainly more than 5 people13:36
popeyI'd suspect we're at about 0.4%13:36
BigRedSw3schools is a pretty dumb choice if you're going to pretend it's representative. Facebook would be better if you want some *single* site. Or google.13:36
BigRedSs/pretend it's/pretend a single site is/13:37
gordi don't think any of those are good13:37
BigRedSno they're not *good*13:37
gordmuch more windows install on bing13:37
BigRedSjust better than w3schools13:37
BigRedSwhich isn't hard13:37
davmor2popey: I wonder if those stats register android as linux then it might be13:38
ali1234the only reasonable way to track it is by sales figures13:38
ali1234nobody cares about after market installs13:38
BigRedSwell, it depends why you care13:39
BigRedSif you're developing something for linux, it's way more important how many of your potential customers are using linux than what proportion of the world is13:39
ali1234if you care because you are trying to sell shovelware then after market installs are not something you should care about13:39
bigcalmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems # of any use?13:40
dwatkinshttp://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-monthly-201004-201104 - they use the logs from millions of sites to ascertain OS share13:40
dwatkinshaha, different numbers again13:41
dwatkinsanyway, my point was, Linux is a tiny part of the OS market, so I can understand a games company being reluctant to spend money supporting it.13:41
bigcalmI'd say that Google analytics knows the answer13:41
BigRedS*an* answer. Arguably, Linux users are more likely to be hiding themselves from google :)13:41
bigcalmWhy hide yourself from google analytics?13:42
daubersbigcalm: So _they_ can't find me!13:42
* daubers puts on his XXL tinfoild hat and quivers under the stairs13:42
BigRedSto stop google tracking what you're doing, generally13:42
bigcalmI'm sure that there is a sub-set of any os users that try to hide13:43
bigcalmBut the majority just don't care13:43
bigcalmOr don't care enough to do something about it13:44
dwatkinsThe other trouble is that these stats don't take dual-booting into account as far as I know.13:44
bigcalmThat would be impossible to track without having a unique ID for every machine set up13:45
bigcalmAnd then that ID being passed about13:45
dwatkinsIndeed, you probably don't want to enter your MAC address into Google to browse the web.13:45
BigRedSis dual-booting any different to having two machines from that perspective?13:46
bigcalmBut, a lot of dual booting machines will get the same IP from their DHCP server. Once IPv6 is everywhere, machines might become traceable via just their IP address13:46
bigcalmBigRedS: you're only using 1 machine at a time. I guess it's which ever you use more frequently and for longer13:47
BigRedSwell, what you care about normally isn't the number of installs (unless you're selling installs) but the amount of use. if you've 5% of installs, but each of those users dual-boots and only uses yours 5% of the time, you've a 2.5% share13:48
BigRedSof course, that makes it even harder to get a number :)13:48
ali1234the only thing that matters is how many sales in your app store13:49
awilkinsWith the games business larger than the movie industry, a tiny percentage of that pie is still juicy and sweet though .....13:49
BigRedSali1234: well, yeah. This discussions is entirely academic13:49
ali1234it's not even academic13:49
BigRedSI meant in the sense of not being of practical importance, rather than being of some studious value13:51
dwatkinsIt's more that with the amount of effort required to port a game, it's proably much less cost-effective to support Linux than it is to just concentrate on OS X and Windows.13:51
awilkinsAlso depends on your platform13:52
awilkinsIf you're a DirectX kinda game, you're not porting13:52
dwatkinsyeah, awilkins - I imagine some game engines have been ported, but others never will be13:52
Catbuskris_our market share will grow larger in time.  i have faith13:52
BigRedSI don't really care about market share13:53
BigRedSthere's enough people using linux that there's a bunch of good software for it13:53
BigRedSand enough people wanting it to be *good* that it is13:53
dwatkinsYeah, although some of the documentation could improve, it's already a huge community, which is excellent.13:54
BigRedSso long as the market share is such that it's at least half as good as it is now through attracting developers, I'm happy13:54
=== Guest68804 is now known as issyl0
oimonwow, linux is catching on vista14:02
oimononly just read the scrollback14:03
popeyooo, its the thing in london on sunday14:18
oimonwhat thing?14:18
* oimon is working on saturday..14:18
oimonthought you meant a massive demonstration or something , and i wouldn't be able to get to work14:19
bigcalmSo many broken images on that page14:19
* popey notes I said "sunday"14:20
popeyyeah, wonder why14:20
DJonesI wonder whether this phone gets a BSOD http://www.reghardware.com/2011/07/21/fujitsu_windows_7_pc_phone/14:20
oimonmisread sunday for saturday...worrying14:21
* BigRedS is working on Sunday14:25
czajkowskipopey: oh I'd forgotten about that event good thing you posted here or I'd have missed it14:25
czajkowskiit's only up the road here from me14:25
bastubisHi - we're doing some basic ubuntu training at Fossbox today - I'm showing people how to get to ubuntu-uk14:29
hamitronhi :)14:30
bastubisThey haven't been in IRC before14:30
* oimon rolls out a red carpet14:31
davmor2czajkowski: you need to go to the #naughtystep till you learn to remeber stuff (you could be there for a while obviously :P14:31
* hamitron walks along it14:31
Ya-Ummehi every114:31
BigRedSGood morning!14:31
Ya-Ummethis is cool14:31
Ya-Ummefeel bright about computers14:31
davmor2morning rome Ya-Umme14:32
Ya-Ummeo lala14:32
leroyhi to the folks @ fossbox14:32
Ya-Ummebbc2, monday 9pm, 1 2 Watch14:32
oimonbastubis: do you need PCs @ fossbox?14:32
piouchiI am so excited to be joining the Linux community.14:32
bastubiswhat's the spec?14:32
bastubiswe're especially desperate for 6 laptops right now14:33
bastubiswe had people sharing them yesterday14:33
leroythis is a cool seminar - learning nuff!14:33
oimondell dimension 3000 PC, p4 3.2 ghz, 512mb RAM, 80gb disk - run ubuntu nicely14:33
bastubisgreat - thanks!14:33
bastubisbut we don't have transport14:33
romehello every one @ fossbox14:33
oimonyou're in e1?14:33
bastubisyes, St katharines Way14:34
romehello mack14:34
romehow r u?14:34
Ya-Ummenice u could join in the discussion Tyson14:34
leroythis is so cool14:34
romei am loving the ubuntun operating system its great14:34
czajkowskidavmor2: eh I don't take orders from you14:34
popeyHello leroy, having fun?14:36
leroyhi popey - yes indeed! You?14:37
popeygreat thanks ☺14:37
leroyDoing ubuntu @ fossbox today14:37
Myrtti♥ popey14:37
hamitrontoo many fancy symbols :/14:38
Myrttiyour IRC fonts are full of fail then :->14:38
bigcalmJust type £ to confuse an American ;)14:38
Myrttilol :-D14:38
hamitron£ is cool symbol14:38
oimonMyrtti: worked for me :)14:39
hamitronthe smiley face and the heart display right for me also14:39
hamitronstill fancy14:39
davmor2Myrtti: put popey down you don't know where he's been14:39
oimonwhere's the ubuntu unicode symbol?14:39
hamitronI'm only jealous I don't have a keyboard with hearts and smilies14:39
* oimon goes to dragons den with a keyboard for friendly people14:40
Myrttidavmor2: I was going to make a remark that would have made sense were popey a cat, but it sounded wrong :-P14:40
hamitrondress it in pink, and I bet it would sell14:40
Myrttihamitron: irssi autocomplete ftw ♥14:41
oimonpopey: how long does it take blogs to get initially added to ubuntu-uk? days or weeks14:41
popeynear instant if you poke me, Daviey or xen14:41
hamitronit owuld look dodgy if I started pasting hearts all over, my trademark is a sulk :/14:42
* oimon poke14:42
Myrttihamitron: no need to paste, irssi does it automagically :->14:43
davmor2Myrtti: I can imagine haha14:43
hamitronali1234 broke it all!14:43
ali1234instead of typing :( imma just type 1f620 from now on, k?14:44
* Myrtti contemplates on what kind of a cupcake to make for oggcamp.14:46
* BigRedS requests carrot cake14:46
MyrttiI wasn't going to make a huge batch :->14:46
BigRedSIn fact, I might bring some14:46
BigRedSthat was a general request for cake, not necessarily at oggcamp or as cupcakes14:46
Myrttibut carrot cupcakes are nice14:47
BigRedScarrot cake now would be ideal in fact :)14:47
ali1234let's hope they're not 💩 cakes14:47
Myrttiwith philly icing on top14:47
* BigRedS doesn't have an internationalised terminal14:47
* hamitron neither14:47
Myrttiwell, if nobody brings cake, I'll go shopping for some. I need cake on that day.14:48
oimonpopey: polite poke/request : i'm added to wiki, just needs the extra magic to add it to planet ..much obliged14:48
Myrttiif I don't make some myself14:49
davmor2ali1234: to quote czajkowski >:-(14:49
hamitronand tea? :D14:49
bastubisthanks guys - that was really welcoming - people are being really affirmative about ubuntu!14:51
bastubisLaters . .. wrapping up14:51
oimonA ?14:53
oimon /o/14:54
oimonaggh fail14:54
oimonwere you doing the YMCA dance?14:54
ikoniathat should be a test on the krypton factor14:54
Myrttiaw, what am I doing wrong here... the video doesn't show up... was going to watch a time lapse of Atlantis being prepped for takeoff14:54
hamitronsuch old tech, men in space :/14:55
hamitronfuture is remotely controlled weapons, shooting down satalites :D14:56
czajkowskidavmor2: why am I being quoted!14:56
davmor2czajkowski: just cause you say it best :D14:57
=== seeker_ is now known as seeker
oimoni can't believe how idiotic this is: "David and Victoria Beckham may have been overjoyed to welcome their new daughter, but, according to a growing group of campaigners, the birth of their fourth child make the couple bad role models and environmentally irresponsible."14:58
hamitronmathematically they are helping the pensions crisis? ;)14:59
ali1234as if the whole of the rest of their lifestyle isn't quite as bad as having 4 kids14:59
popeyplant a tree14:59
hamitronactually, am i allowed to burn things, when I plant trees?15:00
gordi don't think you are just allowed to burn whatever you want ;)15:00
hamitronwell, no15:00
popeya gay friend of mine likes to point out that he has a smaller carbon footprint because he doesnt have children15:00
popeythen I point out he has dogs15:00
popeywhich undoes that argument15:00
hamitronbut, if I plant 6 tree, can i burn 5 of them, and still be green?15:00
oimonanyone that complains about them having 4 kids, i am tempted to say ..how would you feel if your parents chose to stop having children before you were born?15:00
popeythats quite ridiculous though oimon15:01
popeyoimon: how would you feel if we'd never come out of the primordial soup!?15:01
popeyeh!? eh!?15:01
popeyhow would YOU FEEL!15:01
oimon generalising, gay people (in bethanl green area) tend to have small dogs like pugs though15:01
AlanBellas long as they don't set fire to the kids I am sure it will be fine15:01
hamitronhonestly, if my parents hadn't had me, I wouldn't feel a lot..... ;)15:01
popeymy friends have greyhounds15:01
popeyexactly hamitron15:01
oimonwell yes, tongue firmly in cheek of course.15:02
ali1234this whole thing is stupid on so many levels15:02
oimonmy dog weighs < 5kg15:02
oimongreen party always were a bit communist anyway15:03
DJonesMy dog weighs 22Kg15:03
hamitrona bit? ;/15:03
ali1234lol, "a bit"15:03
oimonthey are only green cos red was alrready taken15:03
hamitrongreen certainly seems to be in style atm15:04
oimoni am 4 out of 5 children15:04
hamitronoimon: how come you are worth 4 times as much as the others?15:04
oimoncos i'm special15:05
hamitronoh yeh15:05
hamitronkeep forgetting15:05
oimonthought i'd say it before anyone else15:05
hamitronI'm in a very kind mood15:06
hamitronalso shatted, walked 24 miles today15:06
hamitronshattered too15:06
oimoncheck your typing dude15:06
gordwe just merged in my branch to unity, the diff is 2.1mb (just code). i'm rather proud15:06
AlanBellyay, unity is fixed \o/15:07
oimonwow \o/15:07
bigcalmAll of it?15:07
gordastyle on the entire trunk ;)15:07
hamitronget it all ready for ubuntu 14.0415:07
* hamitron looking ahead15:07
AlanBellwhat I would like in unity is a nice way to launch arbitary applications15:07
ali1234the entire unity source package is only 3.5mb15:08
ali1234so you must have touched over 50% of lines15:08
hamitronor added to it?15:08
ali1234(or just the really long ones)15:08
gordAlanBell, define arbitary15:08
ali1234AlanBell: yeah me too :)15:08
oimonordered a pallet of PCs last week..one was missing :(15:08
* hamitron covers his new PC15:09
gordali1234, we changed from foo (bar) to foo(bar), that covers a lot of the lines15:09
oimonis arbitary anything like arbitrary?15:09
ali1234good work, i hate foo (bar) style15:09
AlanBellsay I want to launch audacity, which I know is in the Sound & Video category15:10
AlanBellhow do I go see all the stuff I have in the sound & video category15:10
ali1234CoF -> more apps -> all applications -> sound and video (but it has been renamed multimedia anyway)15:11
ali1234and yeah, that is really horrible15:11
AlanBellali1234: then it shows me a couple of applications I have, plus a bunch I don't have15:11
ali1234then you click "see x more results"15:12
AlanBelland hides most of what I do have15:12
ali1234i know15:12
ali1234that is actually an actual bug though15:12
ali1234you should never see suggestions unless you are searching15:12
ali1234anyway you don't have to tell me this stuff is rubbish15:13
ali1234you're preaching to the choir15:13
gordAlanBell, ah yes, the horrible drop down box was a result of only having six months to build unity, we'll have a better solution this cycle :)15:13
AlanBellif it was "CoF -> all apps grouped by category" I would be totally happy15:13
ali1234judging on past design decisions the "better solution" will probably involve doing away with the categories entirely and just presenting one massive list of everything15:15
oimonlike elementary OS?15:16
oimonbtw who is gonna sue apple ovr the launchpad name?15:16
gordno one? why would we15:17
ali1234ugh. the gmail app in android is suprisingly bad, considering...15:17
ali1234it's telling me i've got 1 unread email. fine. but it won't show it. i have to scroll through a list of 3000 previously read emails until i find it15:17
ali1234because everybody loves kinetic scrolling right?15:18
ali1234so we should have as much of that as possible...15:18
shaunowhen you say 'kinetic scrolling', I picture someone stood infront of their xbox, throwing two arms into the air.  repeatedly.  to scroll thru their mailbox15:20
ali1234well that's pretty much what it's like15:20
ali1234in so much as it's an unnecessary feature that doesn't add usability but consumers decided they want it anyway because it looks cool15:21
gordi like it15:27
gordlets me go get through a huge list of things quickly, how else would you?15:27
ali1234nested submenus15:28
ali1234or in this case, have an option to go to the next unread message15:29
ali1234instead of forcing me to scroll through a never ending list of items looking for it15:29
ali1234it really is never ending - when you get to the bottom it just loads more, and i have 4Gb of email15:30
ali1234and in the end it turned out that i actually didn't have any unread emails15:30
ali1234just the two screens were out of sync with each other15:30
ali1234so the label list said i had 1 unread that i had already read, and then it didn't update15:30
ali1234so yeah, like i said, pretty terrible, considering15:30
shaunoI use mutt.  tab takes me to the next unread message in a mailbox.  job done.15:30
oimonusually a refresh fixes that for me15:30
ali1234i use symbian. it has a button to go to the next unread, and it doesn't get out of sync with itself15:31
oimoni like the gmail app on android15:32
ali1234that's what i am using15:32
ali1234it sucks15:32
oimonyep, i like it15:32
ali1234the built in default email client of symbian works better than this15:32
ali1234also the battery life on this thing is awful15:32
ali1234but it might just be worn out15:32
ali1234it lasts about 12 hours15:33
oimonshould be better than that.15:33
oimonsomehow my phone charges quicker after i put CM7 on it15:33
hamitronshauno: I reckon I should use a kinect for reading my email, major workout :D15:36
shaunoit could be interesting.  a punch gesture to killfile would make a lot of mailing lists a bit more enjoyable ;)15:37
shauno"yes, I realise you still miss/resent/pine for -sounder, but *KAPOW*"15:40
hamitrongovernment could sponsor it, to solve the fat person problem15:40
hamitronto reduce costs to us15:40
hamitronIBM put Redhat/SUSE under the Linux download15:45
hamitronand Ubuntu doesn't come under that, it is the Ubuntu download15:45
hamitronreckon this will work? symphony_3.0-1hardy1_i386.deb15:46
shaunoI'd usually say no.  but it's you.  I've every reason to believe your OS may be old enough :p15:46
hamitronI'm on lucid15:47
hamitronsite reckons it is only 2 days old15:48
shaunofigures.  the dust is still settling on the apache move.  it was probably uploaded 2 days ago15:48
shaunodespite sitting on ice since 8.0615:49
hamitronhardy doesn't even have support on the desktop now15:49
hamitrondownload and see15:50
shaunois it not out of LTS completely now?15:50
hamitron2013 on the server I believe15:51
shaunoor does the 5 years run from the last point-release15:51
shaunoah.  yeah.  8+5 isn't 11.  long day :)15:51
hamitronI have a load of systems still on 8.0415:51
hamitrongonna format them soon15:52
shaunoI can't remember why I moved to 10.04.  I still haven't figured out what upstart wants to be when it grows up :(15:52
hamitronI moved what machines I can to 10.0415:52
hamitronpurely for security updates15:52
BigRedSit still seems to accept my calls to /etc/init.d so I'm happy15:52
BigRedSI wont be when it stops15:52
hamitronboot up times are faster though.....15:53
gordjust realised that i was fanning myself to keep cool with my netbook, crazy world we live in15:53
hamitronoh dear15:54
hamitrongonna go get fisha and chips15:55
shaunoboot times I'm not worried about.  I don't have linux on anything I'll be sat in front of15:56
shaunobut sanity .. that's worth something :)15:56
hamitronso be back in a few hours15:56
AlanBellno idea why boot times are not considered important on servers15:56
DJoneshamitron: Are you catching the fish as well?15:56
hamitron18 mile drive15:56
hamitroneat them15:56
hamitron18 mile drive back15:56
BigRedSAlanBell: because there's a fsck running every time you reboot it anyway15:57
hamitronmay grab a pint or 2 as well15:57
hamitronlaters o/15:57
shaunoboot times kinda matter, but trusting that things will come back up is more important.  and I simply don't understand upstart enough to trust it15:57
shaunothe difference between a service being down for 3, 5, 10 minutes, pales compared to a service being down, and staying down15:58
AlanBellbut if you can get it back up again before anyone notices then that would be good15:58
AlanBella server reboot should take less time than it takes a user to find and dial the telephone number of the support desk15:59
shaunoI literally have services that don't come up on boot, and I haven't figured out why not.  that's more annoying to me atm16:00
Davieyhah.. i've got a few fairly high end servers that take ~5 mins to boot.16:00
BigRedSReally, spontaneous reboots should be infrequent enough that it doesn't matter whether they can call you in that time16:00
DJonesAlanBell: Are you in #ubuntu-classroom? Current session, How to raise your teams activity level16:00
AlanBellI am there and it is cheri703 standing in for paultag I think16:01
AlanBellDaviey: exactly my point, they don't seem to put any engineering effort into boot time at all16:02
Davieycloud baby!16:03
AlanBellyeah, virtual all the way, but it still seems odd to me that you can boot a cheap desktop in less than 10 seconds but an expensive server takes minutes16:04
shaunowell, I'm sure they'll be paying more attention to it now that no-one actually cares about non-amazon servers.  since that now makes time=money16:06
* BigRedS remembers arranging 45mins to reboot the Exchange server16:08
* AlanBell remembers a mislabled plug16:25
* MartijnVdS remembers16:26
brobostigonlast time i rebooted my vps, it measured boot time, was 20 secs.16:28
awilkinsBigRedS, Hell, yes, remember the reboot time on Windows being heavily influenced by just how long it takes to shut down....16:47
awilkins"You're TURNING OFF..... your disk light isn't flashing ... WHY do you need to clean up your MEMORY, stupid server"16:48
awilkinsEven my desktop machine does it16:50
AlanBellczajkowski: is now presenting in #ubuntu-classroom, applause, questions and heckling in #ubuntu-classroom-chat17:03
MartijnVdSAlanBell: what's she presenting?17:03
AlanBell"An Overview of LoCo Guidance"17:09
MartijnVdSAlanBell: btw, I'm bringing some cool food to the Geeknic on Sunday :)17:10
JamesTaitHello expert experts of expertness. :)17:11
MartijnVdSAlanBell: Am I reading the loco page correctly, meetup starts 11:00 at (near? where?) BL?17:11
MartijnVdSJamesTait: howdy, stranger ;)17:11
JamesTaitHey MartijnVdS. :) yeah, I've been heads-down for a while....17:11
AlanBellMartijnVdS: yes, 11:00, pondering location17:12
JamesTaitI was wondering what the main differences are between apt-proxy, approx, apt-cacher and apt-cacher-ng.17:12
MartijnVdSAlanBell: Platform 9¾ ;)17:12
AlanBellcould be at the entrance of the BL, or maybe somewhere more picknicish like Russel Square17:12
JamesTaitSince I'm now on a metered internet connection, it would be good if I could have one machine download updates during the super-cheap period, and the rest of my network get them from there.17:13
MartijnVdSAlanBell: so I need to watch the mailing list, basically?17:14
czajkowskiAlanBell: oi no heckling!17:14
MartijnVdSJamesTait: look for apt-cacher or approx, they're made for that kind of work17:14
AlanBellMartijnVdS: good suggestion actually17:15
MartijnVdSAlanBell: I don't know how accessible that is, now the rebuilding is done?17:15
JamesTaitMartijnVdS: Well from what I've read, all four of those packages are, but I wondered if anyone had any hints as to why they're different, pros and cons of each.17:16
* MartijnVdS points in popey's general direction17:16
MartijnVdSif anyone has played with them, it's him17:16
AlanBellI will be in London tomorrow, might check it out17:17
MartijnVdSLast time I saw it was in late 200317:21
JamesTaitMartijnVdS: I'll poke popey and/or drop a mail to the list later - thanks. :)17:59
=== matt_ is now known as Guest60026
=== Guest60026 is now known as daubers
daubersBetter :)18:00
AlanBellhi daubers18:04
AlanBellI am hearing good things about platform 9 3/4 as a place to meet up on Sunday18:04
daubersAlanBell: \o/18:08
* daubers needs to bake a cake18:08
daubersI'll be tubing around from Paddington, so am happy to meet people wherever :)18:09
AlanBellthere were squeals of excitement when I child-tested the platform 9¾ concept18:09
AlanBellit is actually between platforms 8 and 918:10
daubersHeh, so we need pictures of random ubuntu-ites running into a wall?18:12
ubuntuuk-planet[Laura Czajkowski] An Overview of LoCo Guidance - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/07/21/an-overview-of-loco-guidance/18:13
MartijnVdSdaubers: isn't that what being an Ubuntuite is all about? ;)18:19
gordpictures? *super slow motion video*18:21
MartijnVdSgord: with slowed-down soundtrack!18:21
* MartijnVdS has just started re-listening the books18:22
MartijnVdS(Stephen Fry++)18:22
* daubers read 2 books and got bored18:24
popeyEvening all!18:24
MartijnVdSdaubers: Audio books work great for me while sitting on the train to work18:25
MartijnVdSdaubers: 2 hours of boredom/day fixed! :)18:25
popeyJamesTait: hullo!18:25
MartijnVdS\o popey18:25
AzelphurInteresting, I think ebay sold/leaked my email address18:26
AzelphurStarted getting spam from etradehouse.com to my ebay address18:27
popeyJamesTait: I use squid-deb-proxy now18:27
popeyJamesTait: have used apt-mirror and debmirror18:27
KrimZonsometimes I think I'm unlucky, but then I read my old code18:31
MartijnVdSKrimZon: then you know you're in hell, not just unlucky?18:38
KrimZonI mean I look back and some stuff that I thought I worked out properly was just a guess, yet it worked18:39
MartijnVdSand thay, my friends, is why we write unit tests18:40
daubersnom nom nom apple pie19:10
AlanBellI think I will check on the exact location of platform 9¾ tomorrow morning19:49
AlanBellit has moved due to building work19:50
popeyphone the station :D19:50
AlanBellhttp://kingscrossstation.com/?page_id=10 they did have a half trolley in the wall there19:51
AlanBellit has fairly recently been moved outside the station entrance http://annabelvita.wordpress.com/2011/07/20/platform-9-and-34/19:51
popeyI am looking forward to Sunday19:52
popeybringing Sam19:52
AlanBellcurrent plan is to meet at platform 9¾19:53
AlanBellthen go eat food19:53
AlanBellthen go to the library19:53
popeygood plan19:53
AlanBellI had two kids drop out when I explained they couldn't take books out of the library19:53
AlanBell"what kind of a stupid library is that then, I am not going"19:53
popeyyour kids?19:54
popeyI have not explained anything about Sunday to Sam :D19:55
popeyAvoiding this awkwardness :D19:55
AlanBellI tried to explain it was a kind of book museum rather than a library, but the damage was done19:55
popeySilly rabbity19:56
daubers"Book museum"?19:56
daubersIn some cases it's a bit like a book graveyard19:56
popeyBook depository.19:56
daubersmemo to self: Hide from snipers19:56
daubersOr was that a repository....19:57
AlanBellmemo to self, take sniper rifle19:57
daubersAlso, cake has been decided. I shall make chocolatey muffins, as they'll travel better19:57
daubersBIG cake for oggcamp19:57
popeyAlso.. we have a new sponsor19:58
popeya company you may have heard of19:58
popeyWhich is nice.19:58
daubersHeh :) That's kind of exciting19:58
daubersWhat're they sponsering with? Dosh? Goodies?19:58
MartijnVdSpopey, daubers, AlanBell: Bring some un-buttered slices of bread -- you'll love what I'm bringing :)19:59
daubersMartijnVdS: O....k....19:59
MartijnVdSdaubers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculaas ("Modern paste recipe" subheading)19:59
popeyslices or a loaf?19:59
MartijnVdSit has the consistency of peanut butter20:00
MartijnVdSso slices would be good, but if you're bringing a knife anyway.. a loaf would work too20:00
AlanBellpopey: "does the stupid library at least have a childrens section?" . . . "err, probably not"20:00
popeyI am planning to bring a fondleslab20:01
popeyor maybe a book or something20:01
AlanBellI will bring a fondleslab too, and one tall child20:02
* daubers always carries a book or two20:02
* popey always carries a book or 5020:03
daubersstill want a kindle20:03
daubersat least amazon can't botch the delivery of an ebook20:04
daubersWonder if my friends book is out by Sunday20:05
* daubers checks20:05
daubersApparently not :( http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sworn-Sword-James-Aitcheson/dp/1848093241/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311278768&sr=8-120:06
czajkowskievening folks20:08
popeypip pip20:08
JGJonesHow do I check if Ubuntu is detecting the firewire port on my laptop?20:53
JGJonesits lspci20:54
JGJonesand it finds it...20:54
JGJonesok dokey...20:54
JGJonesI plug in a camcorder into the firewire....then...20:54
dogmatic69_anyone know how i could achive a script that shows the progress in terminal of some process? something like htop20:54
JGJoneshmm I can't remember what it use in /dev for the camcorder?20:55
JGJoneskino think it's /dev/raw1394 but that doesn't exist20:55
dogmatic69_say i have a cron that runs now and again for a while, and i want to see the progress in terminal20:55
JGJonesHmm so kino use raw1394 but it also tells me that it's deprecated in kernal...so how does ubuntu pick up the video stream from a camcorder using firewire?20:57
JGJoneshmm...I suspect my firewire port on laptop is broken as it's not picking up camera so tested it on a external HDD that have firewire ports and that isn't detected21:07
* popey wonders if Myrtti will be around on Sunday21:27
popeyfor that21:28
Myrttioh no.21:28
MyrttiI've got this family gathering type of thing on Saturday here in Finland :-C21:28
popeyah okay21:28
popeyyou are excused21:29
Myrttia.k.a a funeral21:29
MyrttiI have made it a big issue to be at LugR... er OggCamp21:31
popeyBe lovely to see you.21:31
popeyHave you booked accomodation?21:31
Myrttiit is my birthday and I'll be where ever I please then21:31
MyrttiD was planning to commute from south coast but dunno21:31
MyrttiI've had other things to worry about, I let him do the organisation of that trip21:32
JamesTaitJGJones: Did you figure out your firewire problem?22:02
JGJonesJamesTait, no - I suspect the firewire port on my laptop is broken22:02
popeyJamesTait: did you have a specific question about package caching?22:03
JGJonesas I have used the camcorder on the laptop in the past - um probably 2 years ago, but it worked "out of the box"22:03
JamesTaitJGJones: Possibly, but it could be permissions related. /dev/raw1394 has very restrictive permissions by default.22:03
JamesTaitpopey: Hi! :D22:03
JGJonesplus since the laptop won't even detect the firewire ports on the external HDD's either (they also just works in the past)22:03
JamesTaitpopey: Nothing specific, really, just the eternal Free Software problem of "there's so much choice, which one is the best?" :)22:04
popeywhats the requirement?22:04
JGJonesJamesTait, aye - raw1394 only get created when you plug in a camera - in my case nothing get created22:04
JGJonesJamesTait, via udev that is.22:04
JamesTaitpopey: Very handwavy, really.  Only download package files from the internet once.  I don't care much how it achieves that.22:05
popeylots of machines?22:05
popeypackage building or just desktops?22:06
JamesTaitJGJones: Bear with me a mo, let me see if I can dig out my firewire camera and try this out. ;)22:06
popeyrepeated installations or just usual updates?22:06
JGJonesJamesTait, you probably need dvgrab installed by the way22:06
JamesTaitpopey: Several machines running Lucid i386, one of which is the machine I'm intending to cache the files on.22:07
JamesTaitpopey: Just standard updates.  I don't build many new machines these days.22:07
popeyon the box you want to be the "server", apt-get install squid-deb-proxy22:08
popeyon all machines (including the server) install squid-deb-proxy-client22:08
popeythen forget about it22:08
popeyjob done22:08
popeythe clients will look for and find the server via avahi22:08
popeyif the server is down they will just not find it and go off to the repos as usual22:09
JGJonesthat simple huh?22:09
JGJonesbeen a while since I used squid...22:09
popeyyou dont need to "use" quid22:09
JGJoneswhat would you use then?22:09
popeyits a customised package of squid and avahi, you don't actually *do* anything22:09
popeythats what I use22:09
popeybut you dont need to know or do anthing other than install those packages22:10
JamesTaitpopey: Sounds just about ideal then. :)22:10
popeyindeed :D22:10
JamesTaitpopey: Fire and forget.22:10
JGJonesyup...that's fantastic.22:10
JGJoneswhat about log viewer - what would you recommend as the log viewer?22:10
popeywhat logs?22:10
JGJonesfor squid22:10
popeyI never look at them22:10
popeywhy would I22:10
popeyno apps will use it, only apt22:11
* JamesTait rummages around in boxes.22:13
JGJonesbtw how do you find out which app is using a usb device?22:13
popeywhat type of USB device?22:13
JGJonesin this case, it's a webcam22:14
popeylsof | grep \/dev\/video22:14
popeyor something :D22:14
JamesTaitI can't find the blasted camera. :-/22:16
popeycheese    11167       alan   30u      CHR               81,0      0t0       8804 /dev/video022:16
popeythat works22:16
JGJonesyeah that works...for my laptop camera22:16
JGJonesbut I plugged in my logitech camera...and the green light's on22:16
popeyrun cheese?22:17
JGJonesit was working - but now in cheese, the camera's greyed out22:17
popeymine is greyed out too22:17
JGJonesand I've unplugged it and plugged it back in.22:17
popeyand it's in use by cheese22:17
JamesTaitJGJones: From a very hazy memory, "something" appears in /var/log/syslog when you plug in a firewire device, I can't remember what now.22:17
JamesTaitJGJones: If nothing appears there, you could try lsmod | grep 139422:18
JGJonesJamesTait, aye I did a tail -f /var/log/syslog and then plugged in camera into firewire. Nothing comes up - I honestly think my firewire port is fracked22:18
JamesTaitJGJones: And if that shows that modules are loaded, then I agree the port is probably not working.22:18
JGJonespopey, cheese not running and doing the lsof |grep show nothing22:19
JGJonesso it's not /dev/video22:19
JamesTaitJGJones: Does it show up in lspci?22:19
popeyfirewire webcam?22:19
JGJonesno...now it's a usb camera22:20
JGJoneslogitech pro 400022:20
JGJonesI used to use a camcorder as my "webcam" - better video quality than a webcam.22:20
JGJonesbut since I can't use the firewire, I dug out the logitech as it's much better than the laptop webcam. Plugged it in and tested in cheese. it worked...22:20
JGJonesah...I remember...started Google Talk and tested plugin for video...and after that it's frozen22:21
JGJonesthe logitech that is...22:21
popeyclose browser?22:21
JGJoneskilling chrome...22:21
JGJonesdoing a ps -A show I have lsusb running22:22
JGJonesshouldn't lsusb just display USB devices and then exit?22:22
popeygolly, i have 10 usb devices attached!22:22
popeyoh, 822:23
JGJoneshmm lsusb is "kill-proof"22:23
popeytwo hubs22:23
hamitrongetting to the stage where the USB devices cost more than the rest of the comp :/22:23
JGJonesok...system monitor tells me that lsusb is "uninterruptible"22:24
Daviey(reading scrollback, the server installer now has install time support for squid-deb-proxy)22:25
JGJonesok...how do I kill lsusb?22:25
JamesTaitHi Daviey. :)22:26
hamitronyou can't kill it?22:26
JGJoneswould really rather not use the Approved Microsoft Error Solving Method.22:27
hamitronit won't even die with -9?22:28
JGJoneseven as root22:28
JGJonesstatus is "uninterruptible"22:28
hamitronApproved MS way then22:29
JGJonesThe horror...the horror...22:30
popeynn all22:32
JGJonesoh wait22:32
JGJonesnot you popey you can go ;-)22:32
JGJonesI have an excuse to reboot....22:32
JGJonesJamesTait, according to this - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Firewire#Ubuntu 10.04 (Lucid Lynx) and 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat) that need to be done22:32
JGJonesso will do that and then reboot and also get to kill off lsusb at the same time...it's now no longer an Approved Microsoft Error Solving Method22:33
JamesTaitHm, not sure why the reboot is required there, tbh.22:35
JGJonesthat guide didn't help22:40
JGJonesfirewire still not working22:40
JGJonesJamesTait, I did a modprobe raw1394 - Not Found is what I get.22:40
JamesTaitJGJones: Weird.22:42
JamesTaitJGJones: linux-image-2.6.35-30-generic: /lib/modules/2.6.35-30-generic/kernel/drivers/ieee1394/raw1394.ko22:44
JGJoneshmm had a kernel panic22:45
JGJonesanyway JamesTait - any idea on how to get that blasted firewire working?22:46
JamesTaitJGJones: It's odd that the driver isn't found.22:46
JGJoneswell I know that it was taken out of the kernel, that might be a reason...22:47
JGJoneshowever lspci does show I have firewire hardware22:47
JamesTaitJGJones: If I do dpkg -S /lib/modules/2.6.35-30-generic/kernel/drivers/ieee1394/raw1394.ko it tells me linux-image-2.6.35-30-generic: /lib/modules/2.6.35-30-generic/kernel/drivers/ieee1394/raw1394.ko22:47
JamesTaitJGJones: So it should be there in the generic kernel package.22:48
JGJonesI can't figure out how my firewire port on laptop might break...I don't use it very much22:51
JGJonesbut if I can't use firewire I dunno if it's cos it's broken or if my laptop isn't installing the drivers22:51
JGJonesJamesTait - if I use an external HDD with firewire - does it also use raw1394?22:52
Davieyhey JamesTait22:52
JamesTaitJGJones: I don't know, to be honest.  My guess would be that it's device-specific.22:53
JGJones(btw kernel panic is caused by the Logitech Quickcam Pro 4000)22:53
JamesTaitDaviey: You never call. Where have you been? Is there somebody else?22:54
DavieyJamesTait: Yes. :)22:55
JamesTaitJGJones: Do you have files listed if you do ls /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/kernel/drivers/ieee1394 ?22:55
JamesTaitDaviey: I'm sad to hear this, but not surprised. Just tell me it's not DropBox.22:56
JGJoneshmm JamesTait - no ieee139422:58
JamesTaitJGJones: I should have asked, which version of Ubuntu?22:58
JGJones2.6.38-11 (Ubuntu 11.04)22:59
JamesTaitJGJones: Does this help? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FireWire#Driver%20Confusion:%20FireWire%20stacks%20explained23:01
JamesTaitJGJones: I'm still on Maverick (I know, I know) so I can't test it myself.23:02
JGJonesheh...it worked pretty damn well on maverick23:02
JGJones_those community document should list version number in addition to names23:05
JGJones_I can't remember what number belong to which codename23:05
JamesTaitJGJones: Heh, yes, that can be a pain.23:06
JamesTaitJGJones: 10.04 is Lucid, 10.10 is Maverick, 11.04 is Natty.23:06
JGJonesah...the legacy stack has been removed from natty which I just about remember is 11.0423:06
JGJonesthus no raw139423:06
JamesTaitJGJones: So lsmod | grep firewire should produce some output, I guess.23:08
JGJonesit use the Juju stack...23:08
JGJonesstill...eitherway, it doesn't bloody work23:08
JGJonesI'm still leaning toward a broken firewire port though to be honest rather than a software issue23:09
JGJonesas the laptop is a dell vostro 1500 - *everything* just works on ubuntu.23:09
JGJoneseven use an intel wifi (open source drivers) etc.23:10
JGJonesand as mentioned...it's a Dell...so must be a broken port ;)23:10
JamesTaitJGJones: It does seem the most likely. :(23:10
JGJonessigh oh well thanks for your help anyway. wonder if the firewire port can be replaced easily...23:11
JamesTaitJGJones: I imagine it's soldered onto the mainboard.23:12
JamesTaitJGJones: That's been a useful learning experience for me anyway. I didn't know about the JuJu stack.23:17
JamesTaitYawn, time for bed.23:55

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!