chronos00Hello everybody! I have trouble suspending my laptop with ubuntu 10.10, and intel i965 video chipset. I have searched every bit of many Ubuntu and Linux related forums, but only found one workaround that partially worked...02:17
chronos00I have read in many places that this is a known issue, but I haven't found a consistent solution.02:18
chronos00Does anybody know a workaround for this problem?02:18
chronos00for the record, the solution that partially worked was: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=10244071&postcount=602:19
chronos00I have also tried: 'sudo apt-get install hibernate', but it didn't help either02:21
philipballewis there a launchpad bug for your issue? chronos0002:27
chronos00I think there is, I'll look it up for you now. I could probabluy find it again02:30
philipballewif there is thats a good place to put all the input so its in one central area02:30
chronos00this would be the bug report description closest to my problem02:33
chronos00note someone talked about a concurrency problem, and the posibble workaround of disabling all but uno processor02:34
philipballewhum. you could create a bug02:34
chronos00the bug would be a duplicate of the one I just linked, wouldn't it?02:35
philipballewyou never linked a bug?02:36
chronos00Are you suggesting that a should report a new bug, and link it to the original by marking it as a duplicate?02:39
pleia2chronos00: you said "the bug would be a duplicate of the one I just linked" but you didn't give a link (you only linked to a forum post)02:40
pleia2chronos00: also you're probably better off asking in #ubuntu, this channel is used for classroom sessions (the next one is tomorrow)02:40
philipballewif #ubuntu doesnt yeled anything try #ubuntu-beginners02:41
chronos00I am sorry, It happend the same as when you mail someone talking about an attachment, and you forget to attach... :p02:41
chronos00this is the link: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/27694302:42
ubot2Ubuntu bug 276943 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "Resume from suspend doesn't work on the Mobile 4 Series chipsets" [High,Fix released]02:42
philipballewalright! lets go to #ubuntu-beginners to talk to discuss this02:42
philipballewthat is better for support02:42
chronos00I guess you are right02:42
chronos00I'd better start a new thread than a new bug report hehe02:42
philipballewperhaps, also as pleia2 said, you will get more help on other channels on the ubuntu irc network. the one i mentioned just above is good chronos0002:44
chronos00I wouldn't be able to reproduce this problem from a clean installation as I don't remember what application installation or upgrade caused this behavior02:44
chronos00ok ok, I get it. Thanks for your time. I'll post on the forums. Regards.02:45
philipballewalright, when you go to irc for support chronos00 i recoment #ubuntu or #ubuntu-beginners02:46
chronos00thank you philipballew, 'll keep it in mind. Regards.02:47
philipballewfor sure chronos00! happy ubuntuing!02:48
farodeAlejandriaso whats this chat aboiut02:55
philipballewfarodeAlejandria, chat related to what?02:56
farodeAlejandriathis chat room02:56
farodeAlejandriaI'm interested in learning more about programming02:56
farodeAlejandriaand I thought I could learn more about ubuntu and how to program for it02:56
philipballewthis chatroom is for sessions on ubuntu, this week is ubuntu community week. try #ubuntu-app-devel they might help you better or know where you can get help02:58
farodeAlejandriais there gonna be session today? I jsut want to attend one02:59
farodeAlejandriaas well02:59
philipballewthere was, its tommorow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuCommunityWeek03:00
farodeAlejandriaare there recordings to go back and watch them or read them?03:01
ClassBotLogs for all classroom sessions that take place in #ubuntu-classroom can be found on http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/03:06
pleia2farodeAlejandria: ^^03:06
stephenthemartyrwhat is bieng discussed here?03:31
ubot2The Ubuntu Classroom is a project which aims to tutor users about Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Xubuntu through biweekly sessions in #ubuntu-classroom - For more information visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom04:11
vnetsaperQUESTION: Is it too late to listen lessons?11:59
head_victimvnetsaper: there are always the logs12:02
ubot2The Ubuntu Classroom is a project which aims to tutor users about Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Xubuntu through biweekly sessions in #ubuntu-classroom - For more information visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom12:02
ClassBotLogs for all classroom sessions that take place in #ubuntu-classroom can be found on http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/12:02
=== med_out is now known as medberry
cjohnstonyay mhall119 !14:56
mhall119is everyone here?14:56
nigelbcjohnston: why are you opped?14:57
cjohnstonim not14:57
cjohnstoni am14:57
cjohnstoni dunno14:57
cjohnstoni rock?14:57
nigelbNot anymore :P14:58
mhall119aw, I guess I'll have to lead the class afterall then14:58
mhall119alright, I guess we can get started15:00
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Writing Test Cases for the Ubuntu Community Website Project - Instructors: mhall119
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/22/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.15:00
mhall119so this isn't going to be a formal class, but more of an group chat about how to write test cases for loco-directory15:00
mhall119the channel is open, so if you have questions or anything just ask them in here15:01
mhall119I don't be using ClassBot or monitoring -classroom-chat for this15:01
mhall119okay, so I would really like to see us adding test coverage to loco-directory, or really any other community websites we're currently involved in15:03
mhall119such as summit, hall of fame, cloud portal, etc15:03
nigelbIsn't cloud portal wordpress?15:03
mhall119nigelb: some part of it is django15:04
nigelbah, go on :)15:04
mhall119https://10.cloud.ubuntu.com/ is django I think15:04
mhall119I'm only going to focus on some basic django testing for this session15:05
mhall119firstly,the official link: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.1/topics/testing/15:05
mhall119like pretty much all django documentation, that gives a very good coverage of what tests are and how to write them15:05
mhall119Django supports 2 ways of writing tests, doctests and class-based tests15:06
mhall119I've never been a fan of doctests, so I recommend using the class based method15:06
mhall119test code can be placed in a tests.py module inside any django app, and it will be available to django to test15:07
mhall119you can run those tests from the command line with "python manage.py test $app"15:07
mhall119or, for loco-directory, you can run "make check", which will call that command for you15:07
mhall119Django will look for any test classes in that module15:08
mhall119for each test class, it will run each of it's member functions that start with "test_"15:08
mhall119so you can have a method called "test_foo" and Django will consider that a test method and run it15:09
mhall119before each test method, Django calls the "setUp" method for the class, and after each method it calls the "tearDown" method15:09
mhall119setUp and tearDown are a good place to add data to the database, or files to the filesystem, that will be needed by the test methods15:10
mhall119tearDown is where you clean up after yourself15:10
mhall119it's important to clean up after yourself, otherwise the remains of one test might cause another test to fail15:10
mhall119to make things easier, Django uses a test database, which is based off your normal database settings, except that it prepends "test_" to the database name15:11
mhall119so if you have a MySQL database called "locodirectory", Django will create a database called "test_locodirectory" to run your tests against15:12
mhall119to make it even easier, Django will reset that test database between every test, so if you add data to the database in setUp, you don't have to worry about deleting it in tearDown15:12
mhall119any questions so far on how Django runs tests?15:13
nigelbNope, looks good so far15:14
mhall119okay, now let's get into some examples15:14
mhall119take a look at the diff for https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/loco-directory/fix.806005/+merge/6818115:14
mhall119one of our friends in the Ireland team decided to see how many guests he could register in the Attendee registration form15:15
mhall119and found out that we hit a database size limitation that throws an error, instead of gracefully validating in the Django form15:16
mhall119for bugs like this, it's usually good practice to write your test case first15:16
mhall119so I wrote the test case here15:17
mhall119in the setUp method, you can see that I'm creating the minimum number of data records needed to reproduce this bug15:17
mhall119so I have a country, a team, a venue and an event15:17
mhall119and,  because you need to be logged in to access the registration form, I also had to create a user record15:18
mhall119on line 72 of the diff is where the actual test starts15:18
mhall119it's good practice to include a docstring on your test methods, to tell people looking at it what it will be testing15:19
mhall119so on line 76 I create the path that the registration form posts to, and on line 77 I define a dictionary containing the form data I will pass to it15:20
mhall119notice that I chose a large number for guests in order to reproduce the error condition15:20
mhall119now, since my test class is a child of the Django TestCase class, it inherits some helpful things15:21
mhall119among them is the test client: self.client15:21
mhall119this lets you mimic a browser accessing your site, without having to implement a full HTTP client or have the Django server running15:21
mhall119self.client.get() will mimick an HTTP GET request to your app, and self.client.post() will mimick a POST request15:22
mhall119again, since the registration form requires a logged in user, I first have to log the test client in as the user I created, I do this on line 8215:22
mhall119this login step is only necessary when you need to test pages that require a logged in user15:23
mhall119now that I'm logged in, I can mimick the form submission, which happens on line 85 of the diff15:23
mhall119this returns an HttpResponse object15:23
mhall119I also inherit several assert methods from the Django TextCase, which is what you use to check that the values you expect are the values that you get15:24
mhall119first I want to make sure that my request recieved the HTTP 200 OK response status15:25
mhall119so I use assertEquals to check that response.status_code == 20015:25
mhall119the assert methods tell Django whether a test is passing or not15:25
mhall119it will abort the test method at the first assert call that fails15:26
mhall119if none fail, it considers the test method as having passed15:26
mhall119another useful assert method we inheris is assertContains, which will check to see if a given string exists in the response HTML15:27
mhall119on line 91, I'm checking ot make sure that the error message that the form should generate exists in the response15:27
mhall119now again, all of this was written before the fix was implemented15:27
mhall119why write the test first?15:27
mhall119well, how do you test your test?  You do that by making sure that it fails when it should fail, and the easiest way to do that is to write it and run it before you fix the bug15:28
mhall119so I write this test, then run "python mange.py test events"15:28
mhall119and sure enough, my response.status_code is 500, and my assertion fails15:28
mhall119but now I know that my test will fail if the bug is still there15:29
mhall119so now I can fix the code15:29
mhall119(actually somebody else fixed this code, so I just had to merge their branch at this point)15:29
mhall119then re-run the test.15:29
mhall119if the tests pass, you're good to go, you know the bug is fixed15:30
mhall119if they fail, the bug is probably still there15:30
mhall119now that this test case is in the code, we can run it any time we want to make sure that the bug is still fixed15:31
mhall119so if somebody changes something in the form in the future, and it stop's validating the guests number, we'll know right way15:31
mhall119ok, so that's how you write a basic test15:31
mhall119now for a slightly larger example: https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/loco-directory/fixes-805280/+merge/6673615:32
mhall119we had a problem using the country name in Venue URLs15:32
mhall119and these venue URLs were used in multiple places15:32
mhall119some problems were caused by spaced in country names, others by commas in country names15:33
mhall119so I had to write multiple tests to cover as many different scenarios and locations as I could think of15:33
mhall119you can see that in setUp(), I'm again creating the minumum number of records needed to reproduce this problem15:34
mhall119then I have 3 different test methods to check different parts of the site, and difference data scenarios15:35
mhall119the first 2 make sure that we're converting the country name into a URL-acceptable slug by replacing spaces with underscores15:35
mhall119again I'm using the test client to mimick browser actions, and using assertContains to make sure that the response contains what I would expect it to contain15:36
mhall119the 3rd test, test_country_contains_comma, will need slightly different test data, so the first thing I do is change the country name15:36
mhall119I'm using the specific example that we had15:36
mhall119again, since django resets the database between calls to test_ methods, I don't need to worry about this change breaking other tests15:37
mhall119so, that's the 30 minute crash course in writing django tests15:37
mhall119are there any questions?15:38
cjohnstonmhall119: why are the teams tests failing15:38
mhall119cjohnston: the teams tests where written long ago, and have probably been failing for most of that time15:38
cjohnstonyou arent helping me here15:39
mhall119when you change code that changes functionality or output, you're usually going to cause tests to fail, because the conditions they were checking have changed15:39
mhall119when this happens, it just means that you need to update the tests to reflect the new functionality or output15:39
cjohnstoni cant test my tests if the other tests that are being tested by my test fail when tested without my test15:39
mhall119so, the teams tests need to be updated to match what the loco-directory is doing now, not what it was doing way back when they were written15:39
mhall119you can test all the django apps at once, or you can specifiy one or more apps to test15:40
mhall119for example, "python manage.py test events" will only run the tests for the events app15:40
cjohnstoncan you walk us through fixing the teams test15:41
mhall119you can also run individual TestCase classes, or even individual test methods, from the command line15:41
mhall119"python manage.py test $app.$TestClass.$test_method"15:42
mhall119so, for example you can run:15:44
mhall119python manage.py test events.FormTests.test_large_guest_validation15:44
mhall119and it will only run that one test method15:44
cjohnstonlist index out of range :-(15:45
mhall119as for fixing team tests, I haven't even looked into what's broken, so I wouldn't want to do that in here, but we can do it in #ubuntu-website after I've had a chance to look15:45
mhall119cjohnston: okay,  we can debug in the other channel15:45
mhall119nigelb Ronnie daker: any questions from you guys?15:46
mhall119now, since loco-directory, summit and the rest all have a large existing codebase, it's not practical for us to try and write tests for all existing features15:47
mhall119but, for any new features, and when fixing any new bugs, we should make a habit of including test cases15:47
mhall119these both ensure that our fixes actually work, and it lets us easily make sure that future changes don't break them15:47
mhall119so I would highly, highly recommend that our merge proposals all contain at least one new test15:48
mhall119I'll leave it to the various project leads to decide how strictly they want to enforce that15:48
nigelbwould you suggest that we set up something like jenkins/buildbot  ?15:49
mhall119it might be helpful in the future, but for now we can probably get by just by running the entire test suite before approving an MP15:49
ClassBotThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.15:50
mhall119okay, one last thing I wanted to talk about15:50
mhall119while it's important to test that your code works as expected, it's just as important, if not more so, to make sure it fails as expected15:51
mhall119so if you're testing a field that can be null, you should write a test for when it has a value, and another test for when it doesn't have a value, to make sure both instances behave properly15:51
mhall119the goal is to cover as many possible scenarios as you can think of15:51
mhall119so does everybody feel comfortable with making test writing a part of our normal development process?15:52
mhall119well, I'll be in #ubuntu-website and I'm more than happy to help if you get stuch on something15:53
nigelbafter participating in 3 projects tat do that, I think its wort it.15:53
mhall119once you get into the habit of it, it'll become much easier15:53
mhall119nigelb: definitely worth it15:53
nigelbIts trouble alright, but the long-term regression catching potential we have is worth the trouble.15:54
ClassBotThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.15:55
mhall119okay, let's call it a wrap15:56
mhall119thanks everyone for taking the time to come15:56
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Community Week - Current Session: Preparing for Approval and Re-Approval. Do's and Don'ts - Instructors: czajkowski - Slides: http://is.gd/s3AxPn
ClassBotSlides for Preparing for Approval and Re-Approval. Do's and Don'ts: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuCommunityWeek/oneiric/slides?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=session17.pdf16:00
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/22/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.16:00
czajkowskiPreparing for Approval and Re-Approval. Do's and  Don'ts16:01
czajkowskiAloha and welcome to my 2nd session this week, todays topic is on Preparing for Approval and Re-Approval. Do's and  Don'ts16:01
czajkowskiSo for those of you that don't know me  I'm Laura Czajkowski and I'm currently one of 6 people who sit on the Ubuntu LoCo Council, something which I'm rather passionate about.16:01
=== bambee_ is now known as bambee
czajkowskihttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil  I've been on the council for almost 20 months now and I've learned a lot about teams and how best to approch the approval and re approval process and16:02
czajkowskitoday I'm going to explain some key things that not only will help you and your team, but also help the council help you and advise you on how best you can perform and where you can improve16:02
czajkowskiSo lets get cracking!16:02
czajkowskiFirstly for those of you who don't know who we are:16:02
czajkowskiThere are 6 of us on the council Laura Czajkowski / czajkowski Alan Pope / popey16:03
czajkowskiChristophe Sauthier / huats Chris Crisafulli / itnet7  Paul Tagliamonte / paultag16:03
czajkowskiLeandro Gomez / leogg and we are elected by the CC for a 2 year term. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/16:03
czajkowskiWe are elected to help you loco team members help your team be as active and prodcutive as possible.16:03
czajkowskiYou can find most of us on irc either on our home team channels or hanging out in #ubuntu-locoteams16:03
czajkowskiIf you join that channel and need help or want our attention or find out how to contact us you can  use the command16:04
czajkowski< ubot4> lococouncil is The Loco Council is itnet7, czajkowski, paultag, huats, leogg, popey - they are there to help, just ask! :) You can send them an email at loco-council@lists.ubuntu.com16:04
czajkowskiPlease be patient , we may not be online and only some of us run screen sessions, you can always email us16:04
czajkowskiEmails are moderated so don't be alarmed we will get back to you, and you don't need to suscrbibe to the list.16:04
czajkowskiWe're going to start looking at Team going for APPROVAL for their first time, we'd recommend going for this after being active for approximately 6 months, basically a cycle.16:04
czajkowskiFor us to access this we look at what you've done, so Creating a16:05
czajkowski1) Team on Launchpad16:05
czajkowski2) Mailing List16:05
czajkowski3) IRC Channel - you may want to commuicate only via Mailing list and this is fine, each team is different.16:05
czajkowski4) Create a wiki page - for the examples today I'm going to use my Team page Ireland - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrishTeam16:05
czajkowskiStore all your information here16:06
czajkowskihow to email the team16:06
czajkowskiteam contact information16:06
czajkowskiirc channel16:06
czajkowskibasically if someone wanted to contact your or see what you are doing what they should see16:06
czajkowskiAll of the teams that are created get added to the Loco Directory (LD) http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-ie16:07
czajkowskiAny questions so far ??16:07
czajkowskiWhen that is all done, now you need to grow your community your loco team and get people involved and show us this16:07
czajkowskiA) Started to communicate with one another, either via the mailing list or IRC16:07
czajkowskiB) Had a team meeting each month - publish the minutes of the meting to a wiki page16:08
czajkowskiC) Held an event - Can be anything a face to face meeting, Geeknic, a talk something that shows us you are an Ubuntu group and added it to the loco directory  - http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-ie/events/history16:08
czajkowskiD) Have some fun as a team!16:08
ClassBothead_victim asked: Do team meeting minutes need to be on the wiki AND the loco page?16:09
czajkowskiat present the meeting mins should be on the wiki page, we would love in the future for them to be added to the LD and have the summary of them meeting as you can already create the event on there16:09
czajkowskinot sure what you mean by wiki AND loco page16:10
czajkowskiyour team should have a page called TEAMREPORTS16:10
czajkowskiwe can see at a glance here that each month the team has them all done16:11
czajkowskiok moving on16:11
czajkowskiNow when it comes to your Approval, you can add your team to the Ubuntu LoCo Council Agenda page - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda16:11
czajkowski1) Please do this BEFORE the day of the meeting , it gives us a chance to view them but also makes sure you are prepared.16:12
czajkowski2) TURN up to the meeting if you've added your team to the agenda16:12
czajkowski3) BRING along Team members!!!! WE want to talk to the team contact, but also love to hear from people in the team how they interact and how they enjoy being in the team16:13
czajkowski4) If the time doesn't suit due to timezones, we do fully understand that, just email us and we will email back and we usally as a few questions like we would do in the meeting, just16:13
czajkowskiknow that this option is there for you and it's fine.16:13
czajkowski*ON YOUR APPLICATION *16:13
czajkowskiWe love clear detailed wiki pages.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrishTeam/IrishTeamApprovalApplication16:14
czajkowskiDon't think you have to use colour all over the place, it's not easy on the eye to read and in some cases really off putting to try and read, note you won't be the only team we are looking at.16:14
czajkowskiYou would be amazed at the times we see wiki pages with lack of contact details, like your launchpad page, or team details, use the meeting to tell us how your team is doing while16:14
czajkowskiwe read the wiki page, don't have us googling all over the place to find the content for you.16:14
czajkowski*useful Tip* Every time you run any event, write up a report on it, and even take a photo, this will help you when it comes to your application as this shows us and tells us how active you are16:15
czajkowskiit also helps just to keep track of things.16:15
czajkowskiCreate links to  past events stored on the loco directory or photos of events. Pictures make us happy!16:15
czajkowskiCreate links to podcasts team members have done or have taken part in or interviews they've been involved in - this is the time to show case your team16:16
czajkowski 16:16
czajkowskiIn the meeting we're likely to ask you,16:16
czajkowski1) How you share things out in your team16:16
czajkowski2) How do you motivate your members16:16
czajkowski3) What being a locoteam means to you16:17
czajkowski4) What have you do to warrant being an approved team16:17
czajkowskiBe prepared to talk in the meeting, so again if English is not your first language email us that you want the application done via email we do understand this, it is not a problem,16:17
czajkowskiwe're here to help you16:17
czajkowskiANy questions so far ??16:17
czajkowskiNow Lets have a look at **Re Approval Application**16:18
czajkowski 16:18
czajkowskiSo, we've been tasked we the reassessment of locoteams that have been approved over 2 years.16:18
czajkowskiIt's a bit of a task and some cycles are quieter than others, this cycle we have 27 teams to get through16:18
czajkowskiso we're a bit busy so lets look at how to make things easier on all of us shall we! :)16:19
czajkowskiSo similar to creating a wiki page above for your approval you need to create a NEW  Wiki page16:19
czajkowskiCall it Reapproval and year as again this is going to happen every 2 years https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrishTeam/IrishTeamReApprovalApplication201116:19
czajkowskiWe will again want to see all the basic details of your team16:20
czajkowskiWe are trying to establish here how active you've been in the two years since we would last have met16:20
czajkowskiSo you need to show us this16:20
czajkowskiYou will need to list events you've organised or taken part in16:20
czajkowskiIt will be more detailed than your first application as it should have 2 years worth of information.16:20
czajkowskiAgain come prepared and have it submitted to us before hand16:21
czajkowskiLink to all past events and how you do things16:21
czajkowskiQuestions you are likely to be asked in the meeting are16:21
czajkowski 16:21
czajkowski1) how have you done things since you were first approved16:21
czajkowski2) If you've had difficulty how have you over come these issues and what have you learned from them16:21
czajkowski3) how do you share out tasks16:21
czajkowski4) How have you grown in 2 years16:22
czajkowski5) plan for the next 2 years16:22
czajkowski 16:22
czajkowskiObviously it's re approval so your team should be more established and we will want more detail so bring people along so they can help answer the questions, have your wiki page up to date and have the information on us.16:22
czajkowskiEach team should have a TEAM CONTACT some call this a TEAM LEADER and some teams have a TEAM CONTACT  *AND* a TEAM LEADER16:22
czajkowskiWe encourage teams to contact us, it's what we are elected here to help and do so don't be shy and please don't be annoyed with members who do contact us.16:23
czajkowski 16:23
czajkowskiSome team mail us or poke us on IRC asking us to have a look over their application, that's fine I'd prefer a team to do that then turn up and be told your wiki page has no information and only shows 1 years worth of activity and come back, where I can tell that to them in a quick pm on IRC16:23
czajkowskiAny questions ??16:23
czajkowskiSo to Summerise16:24
czajkowski 16:24
czajkowski1) CLEAR and CLEAN wiki pages - Less colouring and more writing does help16:24
czajkowski2) Links to events - check your links work folks, don't have it go to a 40416:24
czajkowski3) Detailed wiki pages with current information, if your reapplication is 2011  don't have the wrong dates in the application16:24
czajkowski4) Try and have as much information on the events on the wiki page a short discreption or a link to a blog post on it16:25
czajkowski5) keep a back up of photos - we hear a lot that who ever had the photos their ac was deleted16:25
czajkowski6) Come to us if you want some advice BEFORE the meeting16:25
czajkowski7) If the time doesn't suit email us and we can do it via Email16:25
czajkowski8) Bring along team members, don't come alone as you're a team so show that by having a presence there on the day.16:25
czajkowski9) Be prepared to answer questions, have some information written out about your team, again if this is an issue due to language email us.16:25
czajkowski10) Show up to the meeting!!!16:26
czajkowskiyou'd be susprised.........16:26
czajkowskiand finally16:26
czajkowski11) Show us how you are a LoCo Team, show us how you promote and enjoy the Ubuntu Community16:26
czajkowskiwe're not out to trick people or not help teams16:26
czajkowskiwe don't want to unapprove teams16:26
czajkowskiso you have to prove to us you are a LoCo16:27
czajkowskiyou have the content we need to read16:27
czajkowskidon't have us searching for it16:27
czajkowskiThat's me done folks16:27
czajkowskithanks for listening and reading :)16:27
czajkowskianyone have any questions....16:27
czajkowskiI'll post the link to this session on my blog16:36
czajkowskiwith a link to irc logs folks16:36
sabdflhello all16:37
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/22/%23ubuntu-classroom.html16:40
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat ||
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Weekly Q and A - Current Session: Weekly Q+A - Instructors: sabdfl
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/22/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.16:41
sabdflwe interrupt your usual programming for a special preview session on ....16:42
sabdflcopyright assignment and contribution agreements16:42
sabdflthere was a scheduling slipup, and this session will happen properly at a later date16:42
sabdflbut since i was originally told to be here, now, to answer questions...16:42
sabdfli blogged this afternoon, and am here now16:42
sabdflbut will be back16:42
sabdflwhen people actually know about it :-)16:43
sabdflnevertheless, if there are questions, we have till the top of the hour16:43
sabdflperhaps i'll riff a little on the subject, then take questions as and when you feel like asking them16:43
sabdflfirst, my focus is on making a fantastically successful free software ecosystem16:44
sabdflwhat would that look like?16:44
sabdflwell, it would have lots of jobs for free software programmers to work on free software applications full time, on top dollar16:44
sabdflit would also have a very wide range of applications available in the ecosystem, and much more of them under the GPL and related licenses16:45
sabdfli think we have to accept that we have 20 years of data now, the FLOSS experiment is no longer theory, and we should review progress and think hard about what we have learned16:45
sabdflthere are some amazing successes. linux on the server is #1 in all the sense we really care about16:46
sabdfland Android is setting the pace on the handset and device world16:46
sabdflbut there are also some concerns16:46
sabdflwe have a very poor selection of apps, compared to Windows, IOS, Android16:46
sabdfland those last two concern me the most16:46
sabdflwe used to say "Windows dominates because it has an illegal monopoly"16:47
sabdflbut neither iOS nor Android suffered from that16:47
sabdflso, the scientist in me wants to know how to adapt our thinking so that our ecosystem, the Gnu based ecosystem, could be as successful16:47
sabdflthat's the first part16:47
sabdflthe second part is that i think hybrids, and interbreeding, and cross-pollination, are all good16:48
sabdfli think purists usually end up shooting themselves in the foot16:48
sabdfland i try to encourage others not to make that mistake16:48
sabdfli think, when we look at the evolution of the ecosystem, we should be open to approaches which grow the Gnu base, even if they are not pure16:48
sabdflinstead, what i see is a lot of nastiness; it's much easier to be a proprietary software developer, in our parties, than to work for a company which spans those worlds16:49
sabdflwe ignore the proprietary world16:49
sabdflbut we're very nasty to companies, like MySQL or TrollTech, which have dual license strategies16:49
sabdfland this, I think, is self-destructive16:49
ClassBotThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.16:50
sabdflfrom my perspective, those companies have done enormous amounts for good for FLOSS16:50
sabdflI'd like to have more of them16:50
sabdfland frankly, if the whole ecosystem was driven by projects with a similar slant, that would be OK by me16:50
sabdflbecause i think it would be energetic, competitive, and ultimately result in much more, much better FLOSS16:50
sabdflnow, I know this is extremely controversial16:50
sabdflbut someone has to say it :-)16:50
sabdfli find it weird that I end up defending companies that stay silent, because they just don't want to get drawn into the politics16:51
sabdflwhy, do I do that?16:51
sabdflbecause in the end, we live or die as Ubuntu by the quality of our ecosystem16:51
sabdflwe want millions of people to embrace Ubuntu. they will do so if they have fantastic apps16:51
sabdfli personally want most of those apps to be free16:51
sabdflbut i suspect the best way to achieve that is to encourage companies to participate16:52
sabdfland i haven't heard many good answers from the purists on how to do that16:52
sabdflor a response to the fact that the most dynamic focused apps are coming from projects which have institutional backing16:52
sabdflthere are of course exceptions16:52
sabdflthey key to me is to ask "what will motivate investment in this project"?16:52
sabdflin the case of the kernel, the answer is obvious: as a hw vendor, you HAVE to invest in it16:53
sabdflthere are no other projects where that is true16:53
sabdflso it's a false example that the purists often throw out :-)16:53
sabdflany questions?16:54
sabdflah, that was easy :-)16:54
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ClassBotThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.16:55
ClassBotdscassel45 asked: What do you think LoCo teams could be doing that they aren't doing now?16:56
jono<anakin_87792> QUESTION What do you think most ubuntu enthusiasts despise Unity and considering switching to other debian based distros like Linux Mint?16:56
sabdflhi dcassel16:56
ClassBotThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.16:57
ClassBotThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.16:57
sabdfli think LoCo teams should focus on a balance of fun + ubuntu16:57
sabdfli think it's great we have a structure that brings together a social perspective and a technical one16:57
sabdflloco's thrive when they are well organised and balance entertainment and technology16:57
sabdflat least, that's my assessment, and i've spent time with quite a few :-)16:58
sabdflfrom an adoption point of view, i think a key shift is happening in the corporate desktop16:58
sabdflloco's *may* be in a position to spot local companies that could really benefit from that16:58
sabdfland in turn, help fuel the revolution16:58
sabdflbut that really depends on the nature of the loco, and what its members do from 9-516:59
sabdflanakin_87792: hi Darth !16:59
sabdfli see your Schwartz is as big as mine17:00
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Community Week - Current Session: Simple Ways to Help Build a Stronger Local Community Team - Instructors: itnet7 - Slides: http://is.gd/LSqiBN
ClassBotSlides for Simple Ways to Help Build a Stronger Local Community Team: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuCommunityWeek/oneiric/slides?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=session18.pdf17:00
sabdflthanks all17:00
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/22/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.17:00
nhandlerWe will try to get sabdfl back in the near future (since he was cut short due to some confusion on our part)17:00
itnet7Thanks sabdfl and nhandler !17:02
itnet7Hello everyone!!17:02
itnet7Unfortunately, I dont' have any slides, but I will start out with a quick brief introduction :-)17:02
itnet7My name is Chris Crisafulli, aka itnet7. I am an IT professional and have been involved with Ubuntu Project since around 2007. I have been using Ubuntu since it was first released. I am currently a leader within the Florida LoCo Team, and a Member of the LoCo Council.17:02
itnet7Today I am going to lead a discussion on how to increase the Strength of your LoCo Teams!17:03
itnet7bear with me as I check out the Question/Answer functions of the Bot then we'll get started17:04
itnet7There are plenty of ideas out there on what you can do to help make your team stronger. I am going to talk about several things that you can do (if you aren't already).17:06
itnet7One of the first things I would suggest is to create a semi templated e-mail Welcome Aboard Letter, that you can send out to new team members that join. This by far is one of the things that most new team mates commented on to me in person after meeting them.17:07
itnet7Sending out Welcome Aboard letters, actually meets two goals. One.... It lets the newcomers know that you took interest in him/her joining the team, and two, it gives you the opportunity to invite them to IRC and/or upcoming events in the near future.17:07
itnet7This is great because in a sense you're helping establish an early sense of inclusion and acceptance. Newcomers will have a smoother transition in joining the team and may really become motivated about wanting to contribute.17:09
itnet7The actual welcome aboard letter itself doesn't have to be elaborate.17:09
itnet7   1st paragraph could welcome the NC (New Comer/New Contributor). This line can kind of be in template form.17:09
itnet7   2nd paragraph could discuss how to join IRC, the Mailing List, Etc. Same with this one.17:10
itnet7   3rd paragraph will be freestyle so to speak, there are plenty of things you can say... For example, I often read about their team memberships, or looked to17:10
itnet7see what part of our state they were from, and could let them know about members of our team that live near them in case they are wanting to meet members that are local to them.17:10
ClassBotDieselDragon asked: Pardon my community ignorance, but what exactly does a LoCo (Local Community?) team do?17:11
itnet7DieselDragon: No worries, LoCo Teams are a way of local enthusiasts to come together and advocate the use of Ubuntu17:12
itnet7They also provide support for their areas, and do alot of other things. I can send you a few links at the end if you want more info17:13
ClassBotdscassel45 asked: Is there a nice automated thing in launchpad, or do you send them out manually when you get new team member notifications.17:13
itnet7dscassel69: not at the moment, but when I was drafting this session, I was thinking of asking paultag how hard it would be to automate this a bit whenever someone joins17:14
itnet7a team17:14
itnet7We want to try and minimize the work, but we still want to give it a little personal feel17:14
itnet7if you know what I mean :-)17:14
itnet7Much of the info that you would want to include in these Welcome aboard letters can be found pretty easily by searching, but a lot of times, brand new people to the project are hit with a lot at once17:15
itnet7so any time we can save them when they first get involved would be great17:16
itnet7Another win is to use our team mailing lists to keep others in the loop about events17:17
itnet7Most of us have jobs and access to irc, etc. during the day is limited17:18
itnet7but we can leverage the Mailing lists to highlight events that are upcoming, communicate upcoming meetings, and let the rest of our team mates know how things went on events that have just passed17:19
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itnet7Social Media is another way to help your teams flourish17:20
itnet7It costs next to nothing to create a facebook group or to create an account on Meetup17:20
itnet7Even though you may not really like some of these Social Media sites for self-use, you can use them to reach people that you wouldn't normally have within your audience range.17:21
itnet7For example, I use twitter and identica.... I personally prefer identica, but I know that there is a lot of potential for using both17:22
itnet7Just remember if you are planning to schedule an event and add it to facebook or something similar, you might have a few extra people you wouldn't expect show up17:24
itnet7so be prepared, and if the venue is small I would say you may want to be careful how many places you post the event17:25
itnet7Another way you can grow your team is by recruiting from other enthusiast groups17:26
itnet7See if some Local Linux User Group Members like Ubuntu. If they do invite them to join the LoCo Team. Let them know early the intent is not to steal them from their Lug or anything.17:26
itnet7Often times there are Ubuntu Users in Lugs that would love to do something Ubuntu related, but often they don’t have the time or patience to do presentations on say Software Center or quicklists... but Ideally if they join their LoCo Team there is a good chance that they can learn more about Ubuntu, and get some LoCo members involved when doing install fests/presentations.17:27
itnet7I have in the past, volunteered to give presentations for local pc user groups (windows users mainly) when they have a last minute presenter back out17:29
itnet7and at the end most people really do have some great questions17:30
itnet7Just be mindful of your audience, and focus on the strengths of Ubuntu and not the weaknesses of other systems17:30
itnet7There are about two more things I'd like to bring up....17:31
itnet7There are a lot of local businesses that have community boards, where you can post events and such17:32
itnet7So If you are wanting to attract people to your LoCo Team you can put up some fliers, on their community boards. Local libraries and college campuses are excellent places to do this17:33
itnet7If you have a team artist, ask them to draw up a great information flier with the tear off tabs at the bottom, put the teams URL and contact info17:35
itnet7but be prepared to receive inquiries17:35
itnet7If you are contacted for more information, remember to be pleasant and patient, and try and understand that when you are interacting with new people to our community, often there will be a wide range of experience levels, needs, and even to some degree skepticism. Everyone has their reason for choosing to use Ubuntu or OSS, and often they don’t match our own reasons17:36
itnet7Once you begin growing the team, and you have events, do your team reports and post pictures of the events. Share these with other LoCo Teams17:38
itnet7The purpose behind sharing this is to encourage others with idea17:39
itnet7and if they see your successful events, they may try to host a few themselves17:41
itnet7One final thing, Most of this takes a lot of teamwork. Try to make sure that you collaborate with your other team mates to get an idea of how you can tackle it together17:43
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itnet7At first when the team is small or beginning to grow, a little extra effort might be necessary by only a couple of people. As the team grows raise up other leaders and contributors to implement your plans of attack!17:46
ClassBotThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.17:50
itnet7Does anyone else have any ideas on what we can do to grow strong teams?17:51
itnet7er... stronger teams?17:52
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ClassBotThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.17:55
itnet7Well, Thanks to all of you for your attention, and thanks for being a part of our great community :-)17:55
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Community Week - Current Session: Spare - Self Study About Community - Instructors: rrnwexec - Slides: http://is.gd/Ci5Cd6
ClassBotSlides for Spare - Self Study About Community: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuCommunityWeek/oneiric/slides?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=session19.pdf18:00
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/22/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.18:00
nhandlerIt looks like our instructor is not around right now. We will attempt to locate him.18:05
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=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Community Week - Current Session: Spare: Read "The Art of Community" - Instructors: rrnwexec - Slides: http://is.gd/bitMkI
ClassBotSlides for Spare: Read "The Art of Community": https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuCommunityWeek/oneiric/slides?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=session20.pdf19:00
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/22/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.19:00
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