ubuntuuk-planet[Jono Bacon] Community Leadership Summit 2011 This Weekend! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/07/22/cls-this-weekend/00:13
MooDoohello all06:57
AlanBelltoday will mostly involve lunch07:13
=== daubers_ is now known as daubers
* daubers has been pondering whether or not to stay in farnham for oggcamp or just commute in from Reading both days07:40
dauberspretty sure it'd be near cost neutral either way (excluding the excessive amount of drinks I may consume if I satyed in farnham)07:41
popeystay stay stay07:41
daubersI'll reconsider my options once I've been paid next week I think....07:42
daubersIf I don't stay, what I save on alcohol and food might go a long way to buying a kindle....07:42
dauberspopey: Small typo on the oggcamp site07:47
daubershttp://oggcamp.org/venue "in Farnhma, Surrey"07:48
* daubers needs to mug his bosses and put some storage together next week for oggcamp07:52
daubersOther unit I built for it got sold :(07:53
daubersand a light gatey arduino thing in case I have the sudden urge to do a talk07:56
AlanBelldaubers: stay at the unofficial campsite08:16
bigcalmGood morning peeps :)08:20
AlanBelltime to head off to lunch I think08:28
DJonesThats an early lunch08:31
bigcalmThat's crazy man, crazy!08:31
BigRedSif it's before ten it's breakfast08:36
bigcalmPlease don't make me think of McDonald's08:38
* DJones thinks of bacon, sausage, fried eggs, black pudding, fried bread, baked beans & HP sauce08:39
bigcalmOk, that you don't get at McDonald's :)08:40
bigcalmPossibly Tesco or ASDA08:40
DJonesYeah, it contains real meat :)08:40
bigcalmNow I wish I lived far enough up north that cafes serve blackpudding08:40
bigcalmIt's a rareity in the West Midlands08:41
DJonesYou'll have to have a day trip to Bolton on somewhere like that08:41
andrewebdevright, so I think I found a bug in Ubuntu Natty, how can I get some kind of traceback of events so that I can log a ticket? basically, if I cut and paste from Libre Office Calc, into Vim (running in terminal) then my computer restarts.08:46
BigRedSwow. that's a bit destructive.08:47
BigRedSdoes it do an instant restart, as if you hit the reset button, or reboot with a relatively clean shutdown first?08:48
andrewebdevBigRedS, basically it logs the user out and sits at the login screen08:49
BigRedSoh, so not quite a restart08:50
andrewebdevall programs closed, nothing saved08:50
andrewebdevMy laptop fan also starts revving up08:50
BigRedSI've no idea what sort of logs to look at for a trace, probably best to file a bug and see what the people fixing it would like by way of info08:51
BigRedSDoes it happen when copying into anything other than vim? Or from anything other than LO into vim?08:51
* andylockran is ninja09:00
andylockranczajkowski: how's tricks?09:07
BigRedSninjas don't say howdy. that's cowboys09:09
BigRedSI think you're an impostor09:09
* Mez thinks he shouldn't have taught andylockran about sm09:09
MezBigRedS: no, it's him.09:09
Mezhe think's he's ninja because I just fixed something.09:10
BigRedSahhh, that sort of a ninja!09:10
Mez(though, he admittedly helped a little)09:10
DJonesIf Mez fixed it, wouldn't that make Mez the ninja & andylockran the damsel in distress?09:10
brobostigongood morning everyone.09:10
BigRedSNinjas are undetectable. You'll never know quite how much they helped09:10
MezDJones: technically yes.  Lol.09:10
MezHard disk raid was expanded > 3TB.  Therefore making the server fail to boot (and update-grub to fail)09:11
Mezso I shrank it back down - then andy pointed me to a mini-howto, which wasn't good enough -then I restored the lvm from a backup, then we booted the kernel manually and reinstalled grub.09:12
* Mez has now sent andylockran off to do grunt work :)09:12
MezI like having a minion09:12
BigRedSAh yeah. I love that about grub. Rather than expending the effort to make it *good* and *do more*, it seems they just fancied making it horrific to configure. Sometimes I wonder what happened to Hurd...09:13
BigRedSMez: what's sm? Does it fix disgruntled grubs?09:13
MezBigRedS: Screen Message  will  display  a given multi-line message as large as possible, fullscreen and black on white09:14
Mezhe keeps sshing into our display monitors and making them show random messages09:14
BigRedSthat sounds more amusing than grub09:14
* BigRedS plots09:15
andylockranI considered sm'ing to my last place of work and freaking them out09:18
Mezyeah, not a good idea.09:18
andylockranserves them right for not changing my passwords - but think they may use it as an excuse to sue me because they weren't too happy with me leaving...09:18
BigRedSdidn't you just leave at and cron jobs lying around on your last day?09:19
BigRedSamateur :)09:19
andylockranI have a professional approach :)09:20
andylockran(hence the sm messageS)09:20
BigRedSit's not the approach we're talking about, it's the departure :)09:21
andylockraneven still - can always be employed as a consultant in the future ...09:23
BigRedSah yeah, I did a week of 'consulting' at my last place09:23
BigRedSwhen they noticed they'd made me redundant and my last day was the day before the one of the two people left in the department went on holiday09:24
BigRedSthat was profitable :)09:24
DJonesDid you get "Consultants" rates?09:25
DJonesRather than salary + a bit for the inconvinience09:26
BigRedSsort-of. They rejigged the redundancy agreement so I got all my holiday pay (including what I'd already taken) and to keep my laptop and £(a few hundred)09:27
DJonesCan't really complain at that09:27
BigRedSbut I didn't invoice them for contracting, it was effectively as if I worked an extra week of my notice09:27
BigRedSno, not at all! That monday was my first 9-to-5 day with company, it was lovely!09:27
DJonesProbably worked better doing that than having to invoice, get it approved, chase for payment, register for tax etc09:28
BigRedSyeah, that was their plan09:28
BigRedSit was the thursday before that week that HR noticed their cock-up09:28
BigRedSwell, it was on the thursday that I asked what they intended to do, which is when they noticed09:28
BigRedSAnd I got to keep the box on which I'd scripted myself into redundancy. I still enjoy that bit of irony.09:29
* DJones notes that tracing documentation through our system, a couple booked a honeymoon and Mrs O Smith was marrying a Mr Krap so she'd become Mrs O Krap :)09:30
oimoni hope it was Miss O Smith09:31
DJonesGood spot09:31
BigRedSWhat's the favourite tool for people with a low level of arsedness to use to concoct network diagrams? I've a bunch of small networks/clusters (4-8 hosts) to document and I'd like pretty pictures with handy labels and minimal mouse wiggling09:41
andylockranBigRedS: add them to nagios and screenshot the nagios map :)09:41
popeyBigRedS: i get my mate bob-lad to do it for me09:44
popeyhe has visio09:44
bigcalmBigRedS: try something new? https://github.com/blog/621-bye-bye-flash-network-graph-is-now-canvas09:46
BigRedSandylockran: that involves configuring nagios, that's a high level of arsedness :)09:46
oimonBigRedS: seen that firefox plugin called pencil?09:47
popeyMooDoo: i tried to leave a comment on your blog but its broken09:47
BigRedSoimon: nope.09:47
* BigRedS adds that to the list :)09:48
czajkowskimy blog got hacked :/09:48
oimonBigRedS: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/pencil/09:48
andylockranczajkowski: by NewsCorp ?09:48
BigRedSoimon: ooh.09:48
BigRedSthat looks generally handy09:48
czajkowskiandylockran: nothing that juicy on my site ever09:49
czajkowskimostly spam links hiden on pages09:49
czajkowskibut none I could seee09:49
czajkowskionly some people could see them which was annoying as was hard to fix09:50
andylockranthat is a pain09:51
andylockranI hate crackers09:51
andylockrana client (charity) was hacked and I had to clean it up.. made a proper mess of the site.09:51
andylockranbut was a shame, as was a charity site with not much funding09:51
andylockranbut a good cause.09:51
andylockranno ethics some people..09:52
oimoni guess it's the equivalent of teenagers breaking into a youth centre and trashing it09:52
andylockranyeah, biting the hand that feeds them09:52
* andylockran thinks that would make a good tag line for a paper/site09:53
MooDoopopey, broken?   oh paulmellors.net?09:53
oimonjust realised in on firefox 509:55
popeyMooDoo: yeah, it failed to let me authenticate openid09:57
MooDoooh i'll look at it09:59
MooDoopopey, it's a google blog so not sure i can fix it...:S10:00
davmor2morning all10:04
MooDoomorning davmor210:04
* davmor2 prods czajkowski 10:04
andylockranmorning davmor210:05
davmor2MooDoo: how was everything in the end yesterday dude?10:05
MooDoodavmor2, just waiting for results mate10:05
diplo-Any one use Virtual Box with CentOS 4 ?10:05
davmor2MooDoo: oh that's even worse than waiting to get them done10:06
davmor2morning andylockran10:06
oimonhigh five's popey for being a generally helpful & top  bloke.10:10
* MooDoo thinks oimon is on drugs ;)10:11
MooDoopopey nice and helpful....never :D10:11
oimonwonder if those fossbox guys will be back in today. would be nice to give them a load of spare machines10:12
scoundrel50acan somebody help, or at least point me in the right direction, I have Oneiric RC1 kernel installed, I want to uninstall it and install the latest kernel of 11.04 instead. How do I do that?10:15
scoundrel50aAt the momsnt, I cant install 11.04 fully, as the backlight problem is still not fixed. I just want the kernel to check every now and again, to see when the problem does get fixed10:16
davmor2oimon: you can get hold of them via their site I would imagine10:16
oimonyep, thats my plan b10:17
brobostigonscoundrel50a: go into packages.ubuntu.com and find the version, then go into synaptic, and search for that version, then install it. and then simply switch back and forth in grub.10:17
scoundrel50ahow do you just install the kernel, not the whole thing10:18
brobostigonscoundrel50a: yes, just tell synaptic to install the kernel, and it will do that.10:18
scoundrel50asorry, I dont know how to tell synaptic to do that, which is why i am asking.10:19
scoundrel50aand how do I remove oneiric?10:19
brobostigonscoundrel50a: simply tick the box next to the package, and hit apply.10:20
BigRedS'removing' oneiric's a bit different/ what exactly do you want to do? downgrade?10:20
ali1234"question makes no sense please restate"10:21
scoundrel50ano, just remove the kernel,10:21
BigRedSThe kernel isn't oneiric10:21
scoundrel50aThe kernel is Oneiric, RC110:21
brobostigonscoundrel50a: in that case, untick the package in synaptic, ie, the option to uninstall, and hit apply.10:21
scoundrel50aok, so what is it then?10:21
BigRedS'Oneiric' is Ubuntu 11.1010:21
BigRedSthe kernel is 2.6.something or (in Oneiric) 2.310:21
scoundrel50ayes, that is what I have install;ed10:22
scoundrel50abut only the kernel10:22
BigRedSyeah, 'only the kernel' is not the same as 'oneiric', hence our confusion10:22
BigRedSanyway, what you want to do is install an older kernel, then boot into it and make sure it works, then remove the enw one10:23
BigRedSso install that linux-image package, reboot and select it from the grub menu10:23
scoundrel50ayeh, but I made that clear in my first message10:23
BigRedSer, right. So why did you start saying something else?10:24
BigRedSonce booted, if you're happy with it, just remove the 3.0 kernel package and that'll be gone and the then-highest version will be default10:24
BigRedSyou *can* remove the package now if you like, but if on reboot it all goes wrong you'd be in a bit of a pickle :)10:24
ali1234why even bother?10:25
ali1234just carry on using 310:25
scoundrel50aBigRedS: well, basically, I want to clean up10:25
ali1234it won't make any difference10:25
scoundrel50aI cant nuse 3, because of the backlight problem, that is why i am removing it10:25
ali1234i thought you said you can't use 11.04 because of the backlight problem? which is it?10:25
scoundrel50athe same as oneiric, it hasnt been fixed10:26
scoundrel50aok, start from beginning10:26
ali1234so you can't use 11.04 or oneiric?10:26
ali1234so you can't actually use anything?10:26
scoundrel50aback a couple of months ago,10:26
ali1234it doesn't work at all?10:26
ali1234I AM CONFUSED10:26
scoundrel50aso am I now10:26
scoundrel50aall I wanted to ask, was how to remove oneiric, then install 11.04 kernel, that was all10:27
ali1234if you remove oneiric (assuming you actually have it installed) and then install 11.04 kernel, all you will have left is a kernel10:27
scoundrel50aand I am still none the wiser10:27
ali1234which will not be very much use to you10:28
ali1234hence, question does not make sense, please restate10:28
BigRedSThe only way to remove oneiric is to hose the partition it's on, really. But then after that you'll want to install a whole OS, not just a kernel10:28
ali1234but in the spirit of not helping, i will answer your question anyway10:28
ali1234to remove oneiric, simply format the partition containing it10:29
scoundrel50aok, the oneiric kernel is not connected to anything, its seperate to my 10.10 installation, it just shows in the grub,10:29
BigRedSunless you're persisting in referring to the kernel as 'oneirc' as part of some dastardly plan to keep us confused10:29
ali1234then, to install the 11.04 kernel, just unpack it using ar, and copy it to /boot10:29
ali1234of course, you will not be able to boot, because you deleted your OS in step 110:29
scoundrel50abut it is, its oneiric 3.0.0-0300rc110:30
BigRedSit's *linux* 3.0.0-0300rci10:30
BigRedSwhich Oneiric happens to be using10:30
brobostigonwhy not just gets nattys kernel version, from packages.ubuntu.com, and then instruct synaptic, to install that, if it is in oneirics repos, or just gets the deb's from packages.ubuntu.com, and install with dpkg?10:31
scoundrel50aok, now that is three different people telling me three different things10:31
ali1234no, we are all telling you the same thing10:31
scoundrel50aaqnd you wonder why I am confused10:31
ali1234you're just not listening10:31
BigRedSwell, you're one person telling us at least two different things...10:31
scoundrel50ano, before I came on ehre today two other people told me somethign different now your teeling me somethign different again10:31
scoundrel50aand you wonder why i am confused?10:32
ali1234well those two people obviously didn't have a clue and told you a bunch of rubbish :)10:32
scoundrel50aone of the was a somebody from ubuntu-x10:32
BigRedSOh, before on here. That's fine10:32
scoundrel50aand another one was somebody from here10:32
BigRedSWhat did they tell you? And did you ask them how to remove Oneiric, or how to replace Linux 3.0 with Linux 2.6.*?10:33
ali1234ok let me see if i have got this straight10:33
BigRedSbecause you're flitting between both here, and they're utterly different processes10:33
ali1234you have 10.10 installed10:33
ali1234you can't upgrade to 11.04 because the kernel backlight bug10:33
brobostigonwhich of those?10:33
ali1234you wanted to check if oneiric the bug was fixed, so you installed the kernel from oneiric onto your 10.10 install10:33
popeythat is correct ali123410:34
popey(from my memory)10:34
ali1234so now you want to ... ?10:34
popey(remove the linux 3.0 kernel)10:34
popeyi.e. go back to vanilla 10.1010:34
popey(my understanding from scrollback)10:34
ali1234so that should be easy enough. just do what brob said right at the start10:34
scoundrel50aI dont know, you have lost me completely now10:35
ali1234ok what result are you looking for?10:35
scoundrel50aI am usinig 10-.10 on same computer now10:35
ali1234"make computer work again" how is that?10:35
ali1234or are you still looking for a fix to use 11.04 or 11.10?10:35
scoundrel50aI want to remove the rc1 kernel10:36
davmor2Ah the specials - Ghost town what a track :)10:36
ali1234ok so just load up synaptic, search for "linux-image" and then remove it10:36
scoundrel50aok, and will that break my 10.1010:37
ali1234make sure you have at least one version of "linux-image" installed though10:37
ali1234it will break if you don't have at least one version of it installed10:37
scoundrel50aI have up to date version of 10.10 installed10:37
ali1234so you know how to use grub to select kernel version?10:38
scoundrel50ayes, which is how I am using 10.10 to post on here10:38
ali1234good. so you have all the kernel versions installed10:39
ali1234so just use synaptic to search linux-image and remove the ones you don't want10:39
ali1234only remove the ones with a number after the name10:39
scoundrel50aok, I found the image in synaptic, and its just on its own, nothing with it, so I removing it now,10:40
ali1234that sounds bad10:40
ali1234make a screenshot of what you found10:40
ali1234it sounds to me like you're doing it wrong10:41
scoundrel50atoo late, the image has been removed10:41
scoundrel50aok, that didint cause any problems with this installation of 10.10. How can I install the image of 11.04 without it affecting my installation, the same way as the rc1 image was installed. I need to be able to check 11.04 to see of there are any changes.10:49
oimonyesterday i was looking over someones shoulder on the train and they had course material for city & guilds diploma in IT support . on the page was a large picture of a floppy disk, showing write protect tab and other such features. the text began "nowadays many pcs come preinstalled with a floppy disk drive..."...how old is this stuff?10:50
ali1234scoundrel50a: i highly doubt it wil get fixed in 11.0410:51
ali1234anyway you just download the deb file and double click on it10:52
scoundrel50awhere do I find it?10:53
scoundrel50aok, does anybody know where the .deb files are found for 11.04?10:58
brobostigonscoundrel50a: packages.ubuntu.com10:59
scoundrel50aok, thanks11:04
popeyI think scoundrel50a isnt going to get anywhere just installing linux kernels from higher releases11:08
brobostigoni agree, we need to work out what is causing the issue. rather than just wildly messing with kernel's11:09
ali1234you need to perform a git bisect and find the commit the breaks the backlight11:10
gordso... cron has stopped working for me today on my server, how do you debug cron/cronjobs?11:16
andylockran/etc/init.d/cron status?11:18
andylockrangord: virtual machine or physical?11:19
gordandylockran, physical11:19
=== 18WAA03BP is now known as Catbuskris
gordandylockran, cron is running11:19
andylockranbut it's just failed to execute when it should have?11:20
andylockranI'd set a cron for 2 minutes time and see what happends11:20
gordyup, i have imap filter run on my imap mailbox every 5 minutes, doesn't get called11:20
gordmaybe i should just restart the machine like its been bugging me to do for about two months11:20
andylockranmight be something lowlevel that would be difficult to sort11:21
andylockranturn it off and on again :)11:21
gordawww maaan, i hate doing that. ubuntu will find some reason to say "hey, i know i haven't started openssh yet but press a certain button!"11:21
gordi tried to do "sudo apt-get shutdown -r now" . its not my day today11:22
andylockranbrainfarts suck11:22
gordheey it restarted fine11:24
popeygord: you know there was a dodgy patch that hit lucid and killed cron jobs?11:26
popeyabout 2 months ago11:26
Davieyyeah, there wasa USN about it11:27
gordpopey, yeah i got hit by that, which is why i mentioned it here in case it was happening again :)11:27
Davieyhah, not me gv'nor11:27
popeyyeah, you say that when the boss is in the room ;)11:27
DavieyThe nicer one, was installing gnome on servers due to a langpack mistake11:27
popeyooo thats fun11:28
popey"Here, have a free GUI!"11:28
Davieyyeah, automated updates++11:28
popeySo it's now 2 weeks since I installed Ubuntu 11.04 on a Samsung netbook for an 8 year old girl..11:29
popeythe only feedback I have had is "It's working fine"11:29
popeyI am starting to panic that its broken and they feel bad about it and dont want to bug me11:29
czajkowskiwhy panic you do a good install11:29
popeyso kind11:29
czajkowskipopey: you tested it ?11:29
popeyno feedback from my own kids either!11:29
czajkowskiput on the applications they'd use11:29
popeyme: "have you used the computer today?"11:29
popeysophie: "yeah"11:30
popeyme: "and?"11:30
czajkowskiI'm sure it's perfect11:30
popeysophie: "and what?"11:30
popeyme: "any problems"11:30
popeysophie: "No."11:30
czajkowskipopey: yeah but you're kids do kinda rock :) are they coming on Sunday11:30
* popey worries too much11:30
czajkowskipopey: see pm for a laugh so11:30
popeySam is, Sophie is in a ballet festival11:30
czajkowskiahhh cool :)11:30
popeyI expect Sam will spend most of the day on my shoulders11:31
popeygetting bored in the museum11:31
DavieyOoo, gonna skip oggcamp and head to the ballet festival methinks.11:31
davmor2popey: their 8 year olds they know more about computer than you think you do ;)11:31
popeyI installed WINE on the laptop and called up a company that makes educational software for windows11:31
popeyme: "will it work on linux using wine"11:32
popeyhim: "uhhhh"11:32
popeyme: "Look, is your software mostly based on flash?"11:32
popeyhim: "Yeah, 100% flash"11:32
popeyturns out it work in WINE just perfectly11:32
oracologypopey: Awesome. You're being a gnusiance. I do that often to these proprietary vendors.11:32
popeytis fun software too11:32
popeyI had a play :D11:32
oracologypopey: to really piss him off next time, say GNU/Linux instead of just "linux"11:32
popeyI never say GNU/Linux11:33
bigcalmYou just did11:33
MartijnVdSoracology: it's less GNU than other people.11:33
MartijnVdSoracology: so if you insist on mentioning GNU, insist on mentioning those others as well11:33
oracologyMartijnVdS: oh fair enough. it's just for being an annoyance.11:33
popeyI wasnt intending to be an annoyance11:33
oracologyahhh nevermind then. :)11:34
popeyWhat would good is if the company made a little note on their website to say "Works in Linux under WINE"11:34
popeyin fact I'll call them up and tell them it works11:34
DavieyI'd love it if he responded... "Well, running it again just linux won't exactly work, as you need the userspace to allow execution."11:34
popeyeven printing works fine11:34
davmor2gnu/redhat/novell/microsoft/apple/canonical/random people/linux doesn't have the same ring though right?11:34
popeyhe actually asked me to get back in contact because they may get other customers asking11:35
brobostigongood idea popey :)11:35
oracologyI hadn't intended on starting a semantics war people! sorry!! :(11:35
popeyoracology: hippy :D11:35
* jussi hides from davmor211:35
oracologypopey: that is a great idea. let them get something out of this too.11:36
oracologypopey: also, maybe submit it to wineHQ?11:36
popeygood idea!11:36
gorddo flash produce linux binaries too? for the stand alone stuff, i mean that machinarium game was 100% flash i think11:36
czajkowskigord: are you coming to oggcamp or is ther a sprint on11:37
oracologypopey: well, my issue with these people is that they're paid to answer phones and can never deal past the most basic questions. fair enough i guess, but if someone comes along with some legitimate knowledge, it should get crammed into their brains.11:37
oracologydavmor2: hey i'm just taking it from stallman. he got really pissed one time and lectured everyone on why it's GNU/Linux. just trying to satisfy as many people as possible. that said, it probably does need a name to capture all the other entities who helped in its creation.11:39
davmor2oracology: That's easy The Peoples Linux that credits everyone then :)11:40
oracologydavmor2: that has an awesome ring to it :)11:41
gordczajkowski, no plans to right now, maybe will feel more like it closer to the date if work is less hectic, its the weekend after feature freeze11:41
oracologyit's actually an interesting point i guess, that GNU/Linux actually does miss the point just as much as "Linux" does. i hadn't realized that it is actually less GNU than other stuff, MartijnVdS, davmor2.11:42
oracologybut enough of that. i'll go mull that over and learn something out of it :)11:43
popeythis is why I say "Ubuntu" :D11:43
davmor2jussi: why run and hide from me, czajkowski I can understand ;)11:44
jussidavmor2: hehe, yes, but you are both scary peoples...11:44
* jussi hides behind popey11:44
oracologypopey: you're probably right, that is the closest we'll get...given that if it works on Ubuntu, you could probably make it work on Fedora, for instance.11:45
davmor2jussi: don't think that will protect you popey see us coming after you he'll soon move :D11:45
oracologywhat is up with jussi hiding from people, may I ask? :)11:45
jussidavmor2: see, popey is scared of you also?11:46
davmor2jussi: hahaha11:46
jussioracology: nothing, just friday afternoon stupidness and a reason to give out to davmor2 (like I need one)11:46
oracologyjussi: hahaha, understood. i'm staying in today myself to read some stuff for monday...friday afternoon stupidness well on its way here too!11:47
davmor2jussi: czajkowski is head of the ubuntu Mafioso she is the DON! it's not surprising that popey would give you up, she appears everywhere well kinda like popey, maybe their in it together :D11:48
* oracology pours out some Pimms and lemonade to watch the fun.11:49
* oracology is glad it's sunny and warm right now.11:50
davmor2Yay! Friday fun11:50
oracologythat's what "ff" should stand for on those twitter/statusnet things.11:50
MartijnVdSoracology: I just assume they forgot the "s" in "ffs"11:51
oracologyMartijnVdS: well said. :)11:51
davmor2So popey back to the 8 year olds,  you've installed Ubuntu, and heard nothing back and you think that is a bad thing, why?  The only things I could think of were that everything was fine they'll soon let you know if it isn't trust me11:52
czajkowskidavmor2: I'm a lady and take part in no such things11:52
popeydavmor2: some people don't like to bother their support person, especially when they got the support for free11:52
popeywifey will be seeing her tonight anyway, will ask her to check all is okay11:52
dauberspopey: Pop round for a cuppa, take cake :) That always makes people talk11:53
* daubers never understood why the gestapo didn't just bring tea and cake11:53
davmor2popey: I found the opposite they can't do something they are soon back around you put it on you sort it out :)11:53
* popey goes into "town" for "lunch"11:53
davmor2czajkowski: See only the true DON would deny it, you must be the DON!11:54
davmor2using monty pythons life of brian as an example of the fact11:55
davmor2She not the DON! she's a very naughty girl! :D11:55
MooDoodavmor2, did czajkowski say lady then?11:58
gords/town/pub s/lunch/?????11:58
MooDoodavmor2, put her in the iron maiden.....er #naughtystep11:58
davmor2MooDoo: yeah but we know that can't be right she swears in Irish too much to get away with that one11:59
gord"launchpad_net: Available in the next two hours to take part in a 25 minute phone call to help us test Launchpad? There's an Amazon voucher in it for you :)"12:01
gordif anyone has some free time ^^12:01
MooDooDave2, feck....:)12:01
oracologygord: ah bollocks. not free :( tempting though!12:01
MooDoodavmor2, :)  i should use tab less12:01
lubotu3Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.12:02
jussigord: I can!12:17
jussigord: where and how?12:17
* BigRedS just earned 400g of dairy milk :)12:24
MartijnVdSBigRedS: .. wut?12:25
BigRedSSomeone I share an office with keeps getting annoyed at me being messy. I've had a 'scorecard' and when I've been tidy for ten days I get chocolate :)12:25
DJonesBigRedS: I thought you'd just done exercise for long enough to be able to eat 400g of dairy milk with it affecting weigth/calorie intake12:26
BigRedSexcercise? Pfffft12:26
DJonesmy thoughts exactly12:26
MartijnVdSDJones: he's BIGcalm, niet SMALLcalm :)12:26
BigRedSI'm not calm at all! :)12:27
DJonesI thought he was Red12:27
BigRedSI've never seen anyone get us that explicitly confused :)12:27
gordjussi, #launchpad i guess12:28
gordjussi, i got that from the launchpad_net twitter12:28
jussigord: yeah... I figured it out after I asked...12:28
jussireplied to their twitter also.12:29
davmor2MooDoo: no use tab just look at the result before hitting send :D12:35
MooDoodavmor2, ssssh12:37
davmor2MooDoo: NO! :P12:37
oracologyMooDoo: what's "ssssh", "super secret secure shell"? ;)12:41
MooDoooracology, that would be cool, but in this case it wase sssssshutup davmor2 you darn fool :)12:42
davmor2MooDoo: Who's the more foolish the fool or the fool who follows :P12:42
MooDoodavmor2, darn you and your forward thinking12:43
davmor2MooDoo: Reverse thinking actually all the way back to 1977 infact ;)12:45
MooDoodavmor2, i've forgotten more than you'll ever know :)12:46
MooDooso what's this ubuntu all about then?12:47
davmor2MooDoo: table tennis?12:47
MooDooover the years i've come to regard davmor2 as someone i met :D12:47
MooDoopah even though i haven't yet lol12:47
oimonis that from red dwarf?12:48
MooDooyes i do believe so12:48
oimonthe holo ship episode12:48
popeyoimon: updated your planet feed12:49
oimonpopey: thanks popey ..u mean my change 10 mins ago ? realised that wordpress was being naughty and i had to use atom instead :-\12:50
davmor2I used to love the way Kryton would enter lie mode out loud, "LIe mode! Of course we won't die it's perfectly safe no worries!"12:50
oimonaren't you supposed to be shopping in town?12:50
popeyyes, thats the change I made oimon12:50
popeyI have returned12:50
oimonyou are on the ball today :D12:50
popeywent nuts in pret12:50
oimonmy wife says that toddler needs to get out of the house each day or he goes a bit nutty, unfortunately, rather than wlaking in the fields looking at nature, she goes shopping :(12:51
oimoni think thats why babies are so expensive12:51
MooDoolol tell me about it, i've a new one on the way :)12:51
davmor2popey: what you mean you shook your hips, and said thank ya very much as you paid for your order?12:51
davmor2oimon: if it's a girl wait till she hits 13 yuo think she is expensive now :)12:54
* MooDoo thinks please let my new one be a boy please let my new one be a boy please let my new one be a boy 12:55
oimonat this point i'm sort of hoping my next child is another boy so that we don't have to buy dollies and dresses12:55
popeyI am glad I have one of each.12:57
MooDooi'll get what i'm given, not long to find out12:57
popeyWhen's it due?12:57
MooDoo1st sept12:57
oimoni'm not even pregnant atm and i'm worrying about it13:00
popeyOne of mine is at Legoland with a friend of our family.13:01
davmor2ah a tune that conjures up the image of terri hatcher travelling down the stage on a big fan god bless tango and cash and yazoo don't go :)13:01
popeyHe's 4, and he has a massive crush on a 14 year old girl13:01
oimonon justin bieber?13:01
AzelphurIs there any way to tell screen to exit, killing the process inside it?13:18
MartijnVdSAzelphur: <escape> k13:18
MartijnVdSAzelphur: so Ctrl+A k13:18
Azelphurnah I need to do it from a bash script13:19
popeyyou can :D13:20
popeyyou can "stuff" commands into screen13:21
MartijnVdSalso, kill -9 :)13:21
AzelphurI know about stuff, but I didn't think that would apply to sending screen ctrl commands?13:21
AzelphurI'd also prefer not to parse the output of screen -r to get the pid to kill -9 it13:22
Azelphurthat's a bet long winded, I'd just prefer to tell screen to sort it out by screen name13:22
popeyyou can send the control codes13:22
popeylike escape13:22
Azelphurah, cool13:22
popeyscreen -p 0 -S screenname -X eval 'stuff \015'13:23
popeythat will send CTRL+M13:23
popeyenter, basically13:23
MartijnVdS(M being the 15th letter of the alphabet)13:24
Azelphurah, was wondering where the 15 came from13:25
popeyits 015 octal which is 13 decimal13:26
MartijnVdSthe 015th letter13:26
MartijnVdS*phew* nice save13:26
Azelphurbtw, been trying out lovefilms paid service, it doesn't even come anywhere near the quality or selection of torrents, and they want £30 a month for it :/13:28
Azelphurunimpressed \o/13:28
MartijnVdSwhat did you expect? :)13:28
AzelphurIdeally all the latest stuff available for 720p or higher streaming, at the very least keeping up with dvd release dates, but ideally having stuff on there as soon as or before it comes out in the cinema13:29
BigRedSbefore it comes out in the cinema?13:30
BigRedSthat makes no sense13:30
Azelphursure it does, I'm paying more than the Cinema goers13:30
AzelphurI should get to see it first if anyone is going to see it first.13:30
BigRedSyou're only paying more than the cinema goers if you don't watch very much13:30
Azelphur*shrug* I'd like to see a person who spends more than £30 a month at the cinema, there really arn't going to be that many13:31
BigRedSor below some threshold, I've no idea how much that works out as13:31
Azelphuryour talking top few percent for that kind of cash input13:31
BigRedSbut still, teh cinema is always going to be where a film makes its debut13:32
BigRedSwell, if it can get into any13:32
daubers"UUPC: The Movie Coming soon to a cinema near you!"13:34
Azelphuryay, pidgin excess flood bug is fun \o/13:34
gordAzelphur, erm, lovefilm don't even have a £30/month package, unlimited is £2013:34
Azelphurgord: oops, remembered the price wrong then :)13:34
MartijnVdSgord: tell that to the admin of his proxy ;)13:34
gordcheepest for unlimited streaming is £10 - i find that very reasonable personall13:35
MartijnVdS\o/ MitM13:35
gordi like that i can just sit down in the evening, watch some movie13:35
AzelphurI can do that anyway without lovefilm XD13:35
Azelphuronly with a much much larger selection of all the latest stuff13:35
gordi choose not to pirate stuff thanks13:35
shaunohrm.  they still don't allow streaming packages to ireland.  mail almost made sense.  artificial borders suck.13:39
* popey enjoys Virgin Media video on demand13:39
gordyeah they don't really do outside the UK13:39
Azelphurfor £10/mo you can get a really nice usenet sub easily and stream all the latest stuff usually in 720p whenever you want and it's always keeping up with dvd releases if not even earlier than that >.<13:39
* bigcalm does not enjoy Virgin Media's video on PC/mobile13:39
gordbut their mail stuff is good if you like blu-rays like me, blu-rays are sooo expensive and some films i only want to watch once13:40
AzelphurI'd expect LoveFilm to do better than what already exists lol13:40
* popey suggests Azelphur takes his piracy stuff elsewhere13:40
Azelphur*shrug* was just trying to point out that it wasn't very impressive13:40
BigRedSyou need to use words like 'could' and 'hypothetically' :)13:41
AzelphurI do indeed13:41
AzelphurI'm just trying to say that a big company with loads of resources should be able to do better than a bunch of people with no resources and constantly on the run from the MAFIAA :p13:42
BigRedSBecause LoveFilm don't need to appease the *IAA?13:42
gordyou realise its not just lovefilm right? they have to deal with movie companies13:42
Azelphuryea I know it's not lovefilms fault, more the movie companies13:43
shaunonothing's really impressive if you set theft as your baseline.  £500 porsche? cheaper to steal 'em13:43
shauno(mandatory "you wouldn't download a car!")13:43
BigRedSIt's not like LoveFilm torrent the films and then offer them for streaming; they have to pay whoever for the right to let people stream them13:43
MartijnVdSyou wouldn't download a car!13:43
Azelphurshauno: http://questioncopyright.org/cm/images/piracy-is-not-theft.jpg13:43
AzelphurMartijnVdS: indeed xD13:43
BigRedSAzelphur: point. missed.13:43
BigRedSI wondered whether you'd jump for that, though13:43
Azelphuryea, I get that they have to do deals, it just seems like they are all too busy fighting with eachother to make a decent service though13:44
BigRedSThe point was that if you start from the presumption that you can do something fro free, it's never going to look attractive to buy it instead.13:44
Azelphursure it is, if LoveFilm had feature parity with even torrents, I'd pay for it13:45
shaunoit's a different argument, but piracy is theft. closer to theft of service than physical stealing, but claiming otherwise is a weak justification, not a valid argument13:46
BigRedSNo it isn't. It completely, unequivocally, is not theft.13:47
BigRedSIt might share effects, but that doesn't render it the same13:47
AzelphurAccording to Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, theft means The act of stealing; specifically, the felonious taking and removing of personal property, with an intent to deprive the rightful owner of the same13:47
Azelphurtheft, it is not.13:47
shaunobecause nothing's actually removed from the original holder?13:47
BigRedSbut it's not a service either13:48
shaunowhich is why I say "much closer to"13:48
BigRedStheft of services still involves a loss (of time)13:48
shaunoservices doesn't need to mean time13:48
BigRedScopying soemthing doesn't. It's a breach of copyright - the only loss is because of some invented abstraction13:48
shaunoeg, ilegitmate cable/satellite access will stand in court as theft of service, while absolutely nothing was removed from anyone13:49
Azelphurthe vast majority of piracy now days is done by people who couldn't actually pay for what they want to watch even if they want to, anyway.13:49
BigRedSshauno: extra capacity was used13:49
Azelphurand in fact, surveys done by the media companies themselves prove that pirates actually pour more money into the industry than any other demographic13:49
shaunoI stole valuable radio waves, depriving my neighbour of the waves they paid for?13:50
oimoncineworld have an unlimited pass that lets you go for £15 pm13:50
BigRedSshauno: ok, satellite's hard to argue there13:50
bigcalmConsidering that it cost 11 quid to go and see HP, 15 quid a month isn't that bad13:51
shaunocable's the same.  it's just RF down a different medium13:51
oimonbigcalm: maybe it's only 2D though13:51
Azelphuroimon: do they stream?13:51
BigRedSmm, I suppose anything that's purely reception is13:51
oimonmy missis wanted to see the 2D HP but it wasnt' advertised?13:51
bigcalmI did feel a little robbed when the lass said the total was £2213:51
Azelphuror do I have to go to the archaic building from the days when we could only afford one TV per town13:51
oimonAzelphur: they stream onto the screen. you go to the cinema and watch it :)13:51
Azelphuryay \o/13:52
oimonpopcorn and a drink costs £7.5013:52
bigcalmIt were all fields around here when I were a lad13:52
MartijnVdSbigcalm: did they go uphill both ways?13:52
oimonwhat happens is the people with the unlimited cards come along and then spend another £15 per visit on munchies13:52
shaunoBigRedS, that's pretty much the trap I fall into with 'not theft' then.  torrenting is essentially "purely reception".  no-one's deprived of anything.  you just .. magically acquire13:52
BigRedSshauno: well, it's broadly similar to torrenting in most respects; I'd find it hard to argue that it's a theft of service rather than infringement of copyright, but IANAL. The loss is the loss of a potential [customer|purchase] rather than the loss of somethign already held13:54
Azelphur*shrug* it's very weak logic to try and portray piracy as stealing or immoral though13:54
BigRedSIt's easy to portray it as immoral13:54
Azelphuras I say, pirates spend far more (I believe it's about 5 times as much) on media than other groups13:55
BigRedSit's not that hard to portray it as stealing, either13:55
bigcalmI'm not sure this is the best place to be discussing piracy13:55
Azelphurspending 5 times as much as everyone else, now immoral and stealing :D13:55
ali1234it's not hard to portray anything as anything13:55
ali1234all yuo need is some crayons13:55
BigRedSAzelphur: you're doing exactly what the media industry did, but the other way. They only listen to 'piracy is bad' reports, and you only listen to 'piracy is good' reports13:55
Azelphurali1234: good point xD13:55
AzelphurBigRedS: that's because there arn't any piracy is bad reports that actually make sense13:55
Azelphurbecause at large piracy is a good thing13:56
Azelphurit's like the biggest advertising network on the planet, the media companies try and fight it and loose, certain little people realize it's potential and get rich quick13:56
gordthis entire conversation has fallen into a deep despairing pit of dumb, alas there is no return, watch out for grue's13:57
oimonlet's draw a line under it13:57
ali1234piracy cured my chronic rhinitis13:57
BigRedSthat's two lines!13:57
gordso, cats are pretty cool, you guys seen those?13:57
BigRedScats are awesome13:57
BigRedSuneccesary cats less so13:57
Azelphurcall me dumb all you want, I'm right :P http://torrentfreak.com/best-selling-author-turns-piracy-into-profit-080512/13:58
Azelphurone example :)13:58
gordAzelphur, we are talking about cats now13:58
ali1234speaking of "pit of dumb"13:59
shaunomy main problem with defending piracy, is that there's a *lot* about our wild wild webs that legitimately requires defending.  the public domain is getting eaten away by ever-expanding copyright terms13:59
ali1234i just witnessed a website that lets you log in as anyone you like as long as you know their username. all you have to do is put it in a cookie and you are them13:59
popeyis it abbey.com ?13:59
BigRedSthat sounds like 199713:59
BigRedSoh man13:59
BigRedSthe abbey national have really irritated me with their latest 'security' bits14:00
Azelphurali1234: haha14:00
davmor2oimon: technically that was two lines you fail man!14:00
BigRedSThey're effectively shifting half the point of SSL over to the responsibility of the user14:00
Azelphurali1234: yesterday I found a website that sends all details about a transaction in postdata (amount, etc)14:00
davmor2meh BigRedS beat me to it as I continue to read14:01
oimon=== signs are quicker to type than ------------14:01
oimonthats better, now , lovely weather lately14:01
Azelphurshauno: indeed, that stuff needs to be protected more now than ever, I'm starting to see movies coming to torrents (legally) first, which is awesome :D14:01
Azelphurthe yes men was a pretty cool movie, for example14:01
BigRedSargh! so many lines!14:01
BigRedSanyway, in summary, I like cats but not the abbey national.14:02
oimontoday has been asolutely mental14:02
oimoni have to shutdown all servers and desktops in the building14:02
oimonbut 3 of my staff are off14:03
AzelphurBigRedS: abbey national tried to steal my money once :(14:03
Azelphur"I'd like to deposit some money" "Sure no problem", "I'd like to withdraw the money I deposited" "Wait who are you and what have you done with Azelphur /lockdown account for 6 months"14:04
davmor2the conversation is moot as the abbey is no more it's now santander14:04
oimoni have an old N&P account that became something else then becamse abbey, now satander14:04
Azelphurdavmor2: abbey was always santander I think? wasn't abbey just the UK brand name for them?14:05
diplo-Anyone know where to get free to use icons ? Need PDF/CSV/Print or a base to use for said images..14:05
oimonnope, satander bought thm14:05
BigRedSonly for the last year or so14:05
Azelphuryea, satander bought my bank too :(14:05
Azelphursatander buying everything.14:05
oimonsold out to satan14:05
davmor2santander bought most of the banks to be honest including the a&l an b&b and a couple of others which include that postoffice banking services14:06
Azelphuryea, I was with A&L14:06
davmor2which means almost all bank transaction payments are handled by them (ie payment slips on the bottom of bills, paypoints, payzones etc)14:07
oimonmy wife wants me to change from halifax because of the adverts14:08
BigRedSI'm trying to find a genuinely all-online bank14:08
Azelphurshe doesn't like the musical halifax adverts?14:09
BigRedSbut there don't appear to be any14:09
AzelphurBigRedS: I'm looking at smile.co.uk, does that fit the bill?14:09
BigRedSAzelphur: I emailed them asking if card replacement was able to be done online or over the phone and they emailed back with a number for me to call and ask...14:09
BigRedSI emailed them again and they said no. But that does appear to be the one service of theirs that requires a phone.14:09
BigRedSonly problem is that every time I've lost a card in teh last 10 years or so I've been abroad, and I don't want to phone them, I want to click a button in the web UI.14:10
BigRedSI still don't understand why they insist on only doing it over the phone14:10
davmor2BigRedS: ing and first direct are about as close as you are likely to get14:11
AzelphurBigRedS: it's even more funny that they insist on doing it over the phone because it's abused by nefarious people14:13
Azelphurif it was behind a web panel with a sane user/pass, it'd be infinitely more secure14:13
BigRedSdavmor2: aha! cheers! Are ING only savings, or are they a normal bank, too?14:20
BigRedSAzelphur: yeah, I did eventually get Abbey to say "sorry, yes, the security bit was a lie. It's just that our system can't do it"14:21
davmor2bigcalm: both as I understand it14:21
BigRedShaha :)14:21
BigRedSI should really tell irrssi to highligh bigcalm's messages too :)14:21
bigcalmdavmor2: ?14:21
BigRedSbut cheers! I'll investigate them this weekend14:22
gordpretty sure BigRedS and bigcalm are the same person. like DJones  and JGJones_14:22
davmor2bigcalm: sorry doing my best to make MooDoo feel like he isn't the only one not capable of reading a name after hitting tab :)14:23
BigRedSI'm a bit sure we're not. But I've never seen bigcalm and me in the same room at the same time14:23
bigcalmHeh, no worries :)14:23
MooDoodavmor2, don't worry we all know your name is bill :)14:23
bigcalmBigRedS: did you go to oggcamp last year?14:23
AzelphurBigRedS: lemme know if you decide to go with anything :)14:23
davmor2MooDoo: what's that fred14:23
bigcalmSQL question: 2 tables, Bookings and Users. Bookings.user_id points to Users.id. How might I select Bookings records that have deleted Users records?14:27
BigRedSbigcalm: nope14:27
voidspaceI have the following in /var/log/boot.log14:27
voidspace * Starting automatic crash report generation                                  [fail]14:27
BigRedSI didn't go to oggcamp last year14:28
voidspacewhere should I look for more info on what failed and why?14:28
bigcalmThen we could be the same person14:28
BigRedSaha! Are you going this year?14:28
BigRedSvoidspace: around that line in boot.log might be clues... pastebin the file (or a snippet) and we can have a look14:28
voidspaceBigRedS: ah.. maybe this? init: ureadahead-other main process (410) terminated with status 414:29
bigcalmBigRedS: from Friday to Monday. Taking time off work so we can relax14:29
voidspaceBigRedS: I can pastebin the whole file14:29
BigRedSbigcalm: Ah, we'll have to diverge on the saturday, then, and become two people14:29
voidspaceBigRedS: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/444286/14:30
bigcalmHow will the tab-fail people cope? :P14:30
BigRedSvoidspace: ah, probably. I'm not sure where to go for detals as to what ureadahead-other was doing at the time, though14:30
BigRedSvoidspace: allegedly exiting with status 4 might not be a bad thing14:32
voidspaceBigRedS: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ureadahead/+bug/48467714:32
lubotu3Ubuntu bug 484677 in ureadahead "init: ureadahead-other main process terminated with status 4 (dup-of: 522197)" [Undecided,New]14:32
lubotu3Ubuntu bug 522197 in upstart (Ubuntu) "init: shouldn't log a warning/error when a job fails with a status in "normal exit"" [Undecided,Triaged]14:32
bigcalmAha, I love answering my own SQL questions: SELECT * FROM bookings LEFT JOIN users ON bookings.user_id = users.id WHERE is_active IS NULL;14:32
BigRedSbigcalm: well, it's more productive than answering other people's...14:32
BigRedSvoidspace: yeah, that's probably not a problem, then14:33
Apacheukbigcalm: select * from bookings b where not exists (select 1 from users u where u.user_id = b.user_id)14:33
voidspaceI assumed you guys would know *everything*14:33
BigRedSvoidspace: does it carry on to boot eventually?14:34
BigRedSvoidspace: most people here know more than I do14:34
voidspaceBigRedS: it boots fine14:34
BigRedSvoidspace: but because of that they spend a lot of the day doing real work :)14:34
voidspaceBigRedS: I just don't like to see a fail on boot14:34
davmor2voidspace: have you tried in /var/crash ?14:34
BigRedSodd that it appears to feel the need to create a crash report14:35
voidspacedavmor2: empty14:35
voidspacebug report for this failure14:35
lubotu3Ubuntu bug 778587 in apport (Ubuntu) "starting automatic crash report generation failed at boot" [Undecided,Confirmed]14:35
davmor2BigRedS: it was on the off chance that it crashed14:36
BigRedSdavmor2: ah, so it tries to file a report and, if it finds nothing's crashed it finds it can't create one?14:37
davmor2BigRedS: No /var/crash grabs what it can of a crash then adds to it before sending the report to LP via apport/ubuntu-bug14:42
JGJones_gord - DJones' just my clone.14:55
HazRPGI've noticed since I switched from Rhythmbox to Banshee on my 10.10, that my sound doesn't suddenly go tinny any more randomly14:58
HazRPGsomething that use to bug me no end14:59
HazRPGeven if rhythmbox wasn't playing music... it was weird15:00
shaunoI swear trainees will be the death of me15:43
* BigRedS aims to never be competent enough to get a trainee15:51
Azelphurso following the example on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/rsync16:32
Azelphurwhere it tells you how to backup over a network16:32
Azelphurand it just deleted the data I was trying to backup16:32
Azelphurany way I can get that stuff back?16:32
MartijnVdSAzelphur: are you  sure it deleted it?16:34
Azelphurrsync spammed "deleting <file>" and the files arn't there any more16:34
MartijnVdSAzelphur: if it's ext4, recovery will probably be impossible16:35
Azelphurthe backup over network command is clearly a troll16:35
MartijnVdSAzelphur: use --dry-run next time -- it tells you what it WILL do16:35
MartijnVdSthen remove --dry-run after you've convinced yourself it's good16:35
MartijnVdSalso, let's fix the troll (Sorry about your data)16:35
Azelphurheh, the documentation doesn't say that16:35
Azelphuryea :p16:35
MartijnVdSAzelphur: it's almost right..16:36
Azelphuryea it's ext4, what do I do? :)16:36
MartijnVdSAzelphur: turn off the machine now, then check this page: http://extundelete.sourceforge.net/16:37
MartijnVdSmaybe not turn it off16:37
MartijnVdSstop touching it anyway16:37
Azelphuryea I havn't touched it16:37
MartijnVdSAzelphur: check that page16:37
MartijnVdSAzelphur: it has a HOWTO16:37
MartijnVdSAzelphur: also.. the "remote backup" rsync command seems OK.. there's just a line break in the middle because it's too long (and it wraps)16:38
MartijnVdSAzelphur: maybe that's what went wrong?16:38
MartijnVdSAzelphur: I've added the --dry-run note16:40
Azelphurnope, it wouldn't have got access to the remote machine to backup at all if I hadn't reached the end?16:40
BigRedSpopey: front page of oggcamp.org is missing a closing bracket at "(though, this year, we also have a scheduled track"16:40
popeywhat exact command did you run?16:40
popeypaste it?16:40
Azelphurrsync --delete -azvv -e ssh . lorna@
popeyand what was in . at the time?16:41
popeythe current directory16:41
Azelphurnothing, it was an empty folder with which to put the backup in16:41
popeywell that was silly16:41
MartijnVdS"deleting" means it's deleting on the remote end16:41
popeyit did exactly what you told it to do16:42
MartijnVdSrsync --delete doesn't delete on the local end16:42
Azelphurunclear documentation is unclear :(16:42
MartijnVdSAzelphur: is it better now I've changed it a bit?16:42
Azelphuryea cool :)16:43
popeyBigRedS: fixed16:43
Azelphurlivecding now, I've got slightly old backups of most things16:43
* BigRedS has no more parse errors16:43
BigRedScheers :)16:43
popeyno, thank _you_16:44
MartijnVdSthank ALL Y'ALL16:44
mgdmNote to self: "Move to workspace right" does not mean "move to the monitor on the right"...16:49
MartijnVdSmgdm: it's Friday, you're tired, we understand16:50
mgdmit's good to know people do :)16:51
ubuntuuk-planet[Laura Czajkowski] Preparing for Approval and Re-Approval. Dos and Donts - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/07/22/preparing-for-approval-and-re-approval-dos-and-donts/17:14
=== dominic_ is now known as domjohnson
=== mike is now known as Guest67044
=== mike_ is now known as Guest66653
ubuntuuk-planet[Jono Bacon] The Art of Community: Second Edition Confirmed - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/07/22/the-art-of-community-second-edition-confirmed/18:14
ali1234popey: do you think "EaseUS" is a deliberate pun on the spanish pronunciation of Jesus? (as in, it brings your files back from the dead)18:33
xapelwhere can I get logs of conversations in a freenode channel?18:35
czajkowskixapel: depends which channel you're looking for18:36
xapelczajkowski: ubuntu-classroom18:37
czajkowskixapel: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/22/18:38
czajkowskilink of channels for todays logs18:38
xapelczajkowski: thanks!18:40
czajkowskixapel: if you go /topic in here you see the link to the logs for ubuntu channels18:41
davmor2does anyone have an ati hd 4350 gfx card how does it run under Ubuntu please18:44
MartijnVdSjust plug it in18:45
MartijnVdSas long as you don't have a xorg.conf (i.e. default settings) it should work out of the box18:46
davmor2MartijnVdS: Yeah I know that I'm asking how it performs ;)  I need a fairly cheap decent gfx card that will out perform the crappy one on my motherboard :)18:47
ali1234get nvidia18:48
MartijnVdSnever get nvidia18:49
davmor2ali1234: there is nvidia in it that's what I'm trying to get away from for a change nvidia's binary driver has gone down hill latey18:49
MartijnVdSati's free drivers are getting a lot better, and actually have both 2d and 3d performance18:49
davmor2MartijnVdS: thanks18:51
ali1234ati's drivers still can't even do 2d without corrupting the display, free or nonfree, it doesn't matter18:51
MartijnVdSati's non-free driver doesn't have 2d performance, but 3D is good, but it has the same problem as the nvidia driver: it's crappy non-free software that's prone to break at the slightest kernel upgrade18:51
* MartijnVdS switched to all-intel18:52
gordstill better than sandybridge ;)18:53
* MartijnVdS waits for ivy bridge18:58
AzelphurMartijnVdS: so I'm trying to run extundelete, I sshfs mounted my PC and am trying to restore the files into that directory19:14
Azelphurbut it's saying stat: RECOVERED_FILES/ permission denied19:14
Azelphurbut the folder is 777 and I can create and remove files and folders in that directory.19:14
MartijnVdSAzelphur: I don't know, I've never used it19:14
Azelphuroh, unless I'm root19:14
Azelphurroot can't create the files, but a standard user can19:15
MartijnVdSdid you mount the sshfs as standard user?19:15
Azelphuroh wait, yea I did19:16
AzelphurI guess that's the problem :)19:16
MartijnVdSthere's your problem ;)19:16
MartijnVdSfuse is weird like that19:16
* brobostigon gets mumble ready for tommorow nights meeting.19:16
* MartijnVdS can't attend tomorrow's meeting (maybe on irc) -- data roaming ain't cheap19:16
brobostigonMartijnVdS: dont you have unlimited data plans ?19:17
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: yes, but not when abroad19:17
brobostigonMartijnVdS: ah, i see.19:17
mgdmlong shot, but anyone here going to FrosCon (in Germany, end of next month?)19:17
MartijnVdS(also, not anymore by the end of the year, all mobile phone providers announced price increases for data this week)19:17
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: I'll be taking the Eurostar to London tomorrow :)19:18
brobostigoni thought, for roaming, all over europe, the prices are meant to become fairer. ?19:18
brobostigonMartijnVdS: ah. :)19:19
brobostigonMartijnVdS: with my provider three, it is more or less the same cost roaming, as it is here locally.19:19
MartijnVdSbut it's still "€2 for 35M/day, €a_lot for each MB after that"19:20
AzelphurMartijnVdS: where abouts are you? XD19:21
Azelphurhaha 35MB/day19:21
jacobwLondon apparently.19:22
MartijnVdSAzelphur: that's only while roaming -- I have unlimited internet for €7 here in the Netherlands19:22
Azelphurtime to switch to a provider that doesn't suck19:22
brobostigon19:18:28 < MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I'll be taking the Eurostar to London tomorrow :)19:22
Azelphuroh, while roaming19:22
Azelphuryou can get unlimited for £10 here if you want it19:23
Azelphurfor a month19:23
MartijnVdSAzelphur: Only in the UK, or roaming?19:23
Azelphuronly in the UK19:23
AzelphurI think19:23
MartijnVdSYes, I have that for €7 :)19:23
MartijnVdSVodafone \o/19:23
mgdmI have 500MB on my contract, but as I spend most of my time in range of wifi, I don't use all of that19:24
AzelphurI turn wifi off on my phone just because there's no need to use it19:25
Azelphurdon't have to signal hop and the hsdpa speeds are perfectly acceptable for anything you'd want to do on a phone19:25
MartijnVdSI hope my hotel has proper wifi19:26
mgdmI found that if I turned wifi off on my phone, my battery life *decreased*19:26
brobostigonalso, on my phone, wifi seems to use more power, that using hsdpa.19:26
Azelphurmgdm: that reminds me of the time when I turned compiz effects on and my computer got faster.19:26
mgdmit ended up doing everything over slower, higher power, phone network19:26
Azelphur(documentable and reproducable, I think I even uploaded it to youtube)19:26
ali12343G is notorious for using lots of power19:26
bigcalmmgdm: While wifi is on, it won't look for a 3g data signal. Seems a little arse backwards19:26
mgdmI can believe it19:26
mgdmbigcalm: aye19:26
MartijnVdSWorks very well on my AP -- which has a special "support low-power devices" flag19:27
Azelphuryea, there we go http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSjkTOLCMA419:27
MartijnVdSit increases the beacon time, or something19:27
Azelphurno fire: horrible ugly choppyness, put a drop of fire down, suddenly smoothness19:27
mgdmI have a panel on the phone that has wifi, bluetooth, and GPS controls19:27
mgdmthe only one that's ever off is BT, as I barely use it19:27
bigcalmThe default setting in CyanogenMod is for wifi to go to sleep when the screen is off. That reduces the battery from 2 days to about 8-15 hours19:27
MartijnVdSbigcalm: same for stock19:27
bigcalmNot on sense ui19:27
MartijnVdSbigcalm: it is on my N1119:27
brobostigonhsdpa here, on my htc dream, with android 2.3.4, uses less power while turned on, than having wifi turned on.19:28
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: get a better access point -- or increase the beacon interval manually ;)19:28
bigcalmMartijnVdS: Ah, I put CyanogenMod onto my N1 not long after getting it, so couldn't remember19:28
brobostigonMartijnVdS: i will look at those, interesting. thank you.19:28
Azelphuri just went out and bought a fun 3.5kmAh battery for my phone.19:29
mgdmI think the phone uses more instantaneous power when wifi is on, but gets work done faster, so it can go back to sleep again quicker (same reason as clocking a CPU core down is not actually the best way to save power)19:29
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: http://wi-figurus.com/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=18319:29
mgdmbetter to go to full power quickly and then back to sleep than go to medium power for longer19:29
AzelphurI even overclocked to 1.7ghz, battery life is still fine :D19:29
brobostigonMartijnVdS: interesting.19:31
brobostigonMartijnVdS: was set at 200 msec, i have now set it to 100 msec.19:33
AlanBellevening all19:37
brobostigonevening AlanBell19:38
* AlanBell needs to do some blogs and emails19:38
* brobostigon had a productive day, he reinstalled android on his mobile.19:39
jacobwsounds productive :p19:40
brobostigonalso i played a dartboard, for my doctor to take blood from.19:40
jacobwi think i may be addicted to olives20:27
jacobwi mean, i have to plan which stores to buy from so i don't look strange buying them too often from the same place :|20:28
hamitronnot my sorta thing20:28
shaunojacobw: embrace it.  look weird.  it's easier, and more entertaining :)20:32
shaunobuy them with a smile on your face.  make people worry.20:32
shaunothinking about it, that's how I handle most awkward shopping.  tesco involves female hygiene products?  giant, less than sane grin. take control of the situation :)20:48
ali1234hmm that's interesting20:50
hamitron"these work wonders in teh garage"20:50
AlanBellhttps://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-YNRhFBousw8/TilZsKnQZRI/AAAAAAAAAa0/_gPQpi-ZKlw/h301/2011-07-22%2B11.56.28.jpg meetup location for Sunday20:51
* jacobw is watching Sherlock20:51
hamitronI've just been watching disk defragmentor20:52
jacobwparty at your house ;)20:52
hamitrontired me out, tell ya ;)20:52
ali1234i just plugged an old memory card into my android phone with google+ app and it auto uploaded all the old photos on it20:52
ali1234so it doesn't just auto upload new photos20:53
hamitronbut all those old dirty pictures of your ex?20:53
ali1234well luckily it doesn't auto share them, it just uploads them20:53
* hamitron looks at clock20:53
ali1234but sadly nothing so interesting20:54
hamitronmaybe too early for such joking20:54
ali1234it's just the one and only photo i took with the old phone, in order to test the camera20:54
ali1234that was the only picture i ever took with that phone20:54
hamitronoh well20:54
hamitronjust shows how useful camera on the phone are20:54
ali1234well the phone was kind of crap so i never really used it20:54
ali1234and then i put the card in a different phone that didn't save to external memory card20:55
ali1234it was a 580020:55
hamitronI'm tempted with the 580020:55
ali1234then i got a C7 instead20:55
ali12345800 is rubbish, do not buy20:55
hamitronheard it is a little slow20:55
ali1234get a C6 or a C720:55
ali1234C6-01 is pretty much the direct replacement for 580020:56
hamitronthey are symbian?20:56
ali1234yeah they are all symbian20:56
hamitronsymbian was "open" for a while20:56
hamitronis there any group online making a firmware?20:56
ali1234the phones are locked20:56
ali1234and nokia actually knows how tomake a secure bootloader20:56
ali1234so you have to solder wires to the circuit board if you want to reflash20:57
ali1234not that there is any point20:57
hamitronI'd be happy with that tbh20:57
ali1234i mean symbian just works20:57
ali1234there's no need to reflash it20:57
hamitronbut it is just the idea of using the source20:57
hamitronI sure wish I could customise my ngagfe firmware20:58
hamitronallow reseting of it, to recover from the white screen of death20:58
hamitronreal shame meego never took off20:59
hamitronor was it Meamo21:00
hamitronor something21:00
hamitronI get confused21:00
ali1234meego device isn't even available yet21:01
ali1234if you want to wind some people up go to #meego and ask them when you'll be able to buy a meego phone. they REALLY hate that21:01
hamitronI'm actually tempted to get a WP7 phone21:01
hamitronI will certainly look into it, if I ever go get a phone21:02
andylockranhey guys - I could do with some web advice. I can't port a site to a CMS due to time constraints, so I'm going to create a 'front page' for the site instead.21:02
andylockranIt'll display the latest news (rss feed), a couple of twitter feeds, next match info and a link through to the main site.21:03
andylockranI'm thinking of doing it in pure php - but any other ideas?21:03
ali1234do it entirely in javascript?21:04
andylockranali1234: well I was thinking php + jquery21:05
ali1234you don't need any php for that21:05
hamitronwas tempted to ask if that could be done, to reduce load on the server.. but didn't wanna show my newbness :/21:06
gordhonestly sounds like it would be easier in pure javascript andylockran, just because someone will have nice api's toget twitter feeds and rss feeds21:10
Laneylion has overlay scrollbars?!21:14
andylockrangord: ok, will do21:15
jacobwdoes it Laney ?21:25
jacobwthe madness is spreading ..21:25
popeyit has other very natty changes21:36
popeylike the network icon and power icon on the logon screen21:36
ali1234did they move the buttons over to the right?21:36
Laneydidn't ubuntu have that window resizing thing too?21:37
gordyeah but ours is better than that21:37
ali1234what, the ability to resize a window from any edge?21:37
ali1234they finally added that to mac os?!?!?21:38
ali1234how much is lion going to cost?21:39
ali1234bit much just to see if it's no longer completely infuriating21:40
gordi'm guessing you can demo it at a macstore21:41
gordapple store21:41
popeyali1234: 21 quid21:42
popeyI upgraded my mbp and my imac21:43
popeybut really only the mbp gets the benefit21:43
popeythe imac doesnt have "magic" touchpad21:43
andylockrancheers for the tip on javascript22:28
andylockranreckon I'm a fair bit of the way through22:28
andylockranhow are you popey22:28
popeyhowdy howdy howdy andylockran22:38
gordupload has nerfed down to 0.2mbit, dns requests are taking forever... i need a new router =\22:51
frnasani_attotechi alen22:54
andylockranhow's things22:59
andylockranAlanBell: it's weird.  didn't think you could get such a countryside looking place so close to Tower Bridge..22:59
andylockranwhere were you at?22:59
AlanBellyeah, nice angle isn't it22:59
andylockranbrilliant angle22:59
andylockrangf is currently working @ Alzheimer's Society on St Katharine's Docks (right next to tower bridge)23:00
andylockranabsolutely gorgeous part of London23:00
AlanBellthat is where I was going23:00
AlanBell(um, not to your gf you understand)23:00
andylockranor just St Ks?23:00
AlanBellSt ks23:00
AlanBellthat is where fossbox is23:00
* andylockran goes to google fossbox23:01
AlanBellhttp://bit.ly/pvda49 even23:03
StevenRAlanBell: when's the approval app due? (or has the deadline passed?) Been out of the world for a week23:05
AlanBelldue any time this cycle really23:05
AlanBellhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ReApprovalApplication2011 we need to add dates to everything and photos and get stuff in order23:07
andylockrancan you believe that ^23:07
AlanBelljunk story23:11
hamitronthe sun is a quality source of information ;/23:12
andylockranin the sun??23:12
AlanBellit is spun to make it sound bad23:12
StevenRhamitron: you mis-spelled "misinformation"23:12
hamitrona lot of the media is doing that loads recently :/23:12
hamitronStevenR: :D23:12
hamitronI reckon suicide rates would go up, if everyone just read the headlines and stuff23:13
AlanBellhospital investigates adding webcams to the spec of their bedside multifunctional screen things, hey, this means we can let patients skype relatives, won't that be awesome . . .23:13
AlanBellpress gets hold of story, spins it until it sounds evil enough, then prints it23:13
hamitronAlanBell: how much will they charge? ;)23:13
hamitronis the big question23:14
AlanBellloads, which is fine by me23:14
StevenRAlanBell: good. I started to re-write the first paragraph to make it clearer, but never got chance to fit it in with all the links and stuff23:15
AlanBellStevenR: great, I really appreciate the help23:16
StevenR(this week has vanished for various unavoidable reasons, and things will probably continue this way for a bit unfortunately)23:16
* hamitron punches Azelphur23:17
StevenRAlanBell: when's the end of this cycle ?23:17
* Azelphur punches pidgin23:17
lubotu3Ubuntu 11.10 (Oneiric Ocelot) will be the fifteenth release of Ubuntu.  Codename announcement here: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/?p=646 Discussion and support in #ubuntu+123:17
popeysome time in october23:18
lubotu3Ubuntu 11.10 (Oneiric Ocelot) will be the fifteenth release of Ubuntu.  Codename announcement here: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/?p=646 Discussion and support in #ubuntu+123:18
hamitronI'm no good with names ;)23:18
AlanBellOctober 13th23:18
StevenRI'm not much use content-wise (fairly new to this community), but I'm obsessive over correct grammar and spelling. :)23:19
StevenRit tends to upset people at work.23:19
StevenR(if they don't want me to correct it, they should write it properly before they publish it)23:20
StevenRbut hey, I'm not alone in that, there's a few of us like that on the team23:20
StevenR(that came out alot nastier that I meant it to :S )23:31
* hamitron wonders if it is safe to come out23:33
StevenRhamitron: if you mean from me, then yes, it is. :P  ... I'm just tired and grouchy (I should think more happy thoughts probably)23:58

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