[00:13] [Jono Bacon] Community Leadership Summit 2011 This Weekend! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/07/22/cls-this-weekend/ [06:57] hello all [07:07] Morning [07:11] morning [07:13] today will mostly involve lunch === daubers_ is now known as daubers [07:39] Morning [07:39] Yes! [07:40] * daubers has been pondering whether or not to stay in farnham for oggcamp or just commute in from Reading both days [07:41] pretty sure it'd be near cost neutral either way (excluding the excessive amount of drinks I may consume if I satyed in farnham) [07:41] stay stay stay [07:42] I'll reconsider my options once I've been paid next week I think.... [07:42] If I don't stay, what I save on alcohol and food might go a long way to buying a kindle.... [07:43] heh [07:47] popey: Small typo on the oggcamp site [07:48] http://oggcamp.org/venue "in Farnhma, Surrey" [07:50] fixed [07:52] \o/ [07:52] * daubers needs to mug his bosses and put some storage together next week for oggcamp [07:53] Other unit I built for it got sold :( [07:56] and a light gatey arduino thing in case I have the sudden urge to do a talk [08:16] daubers: stay at the unofficial campsite [08:20] Good morning peeps :) [08:28] time to head off to lunch I think [08:31] o.O [08:31] Thats an early lunch [08:31] That's crazy man, crazy! [08:36] if it's before ten it's breakfast [08:38] Please don't make me think of McDonald's [08:39] * DJones thinks of bacon, sausage, fried eggs, black pudding, fried bread, baked beans & HP sauce [08:40] Ok, that you don't get at McDonald's :) [08:40] Possibly Tesco or ASDA [08:40] Yeah, it contains real meat :) [08:40] Now I wish I lived far enough up north that cafes serve blackpudding [08:41] It's a rareity in the West Midlands [08:41] You'll have to have a day trip to Bolton on somewhere like that [08:46] right, so I think I found a bug in Ubuntu Natty, how can I get some kind of traceback of events so that I can log a ticket? basically, if I cut and paste from Libre Office Calc, into Vim (running in terminal) then my computer restarts. [08:47] wow. that's a bit destructive. [08:48] does it do an instant restart, as if you hit the reset button, or reboot with a relatively clean shutdown first? [08:49] BigRedS, basically it logs the user out and sits at the login screen [08:49] instantly [08:50] oh, so not quite a restart [08:50] all programs closed, nothing saved [08:50] My laptop fan also starts revving up [08:51] I've no idea what sort of logs to look at for a trace, probably best to file a bug and see what the people fixing it would like by way of info [08:51] k [08:51] Does it happen when copying into anything other than vim? Or from anything other than LO into vim? [09:00] * andylockran is ninja [09:00] HOWDY! [09:00] :p [09:03] Aloha [09:07] czajkowski: how's tricks? [09:08] ntb [09:09] ninjas don't say howdy. that's cowboys [09:09] I think you're an impostor [09:09] * Mez thinks he shouldn't have taught andylockran about sm [09:09] BigRedS: no, it's him. [09:10] unfortunately. [09:10] he think's he's ninja because I just fixed something. [09:10] Oh [09:10] ahhh, that sort of a ninja! [09:10] (though, he admittedly helped a little) [09:10] If Mez fixed it, wouldn't that make Mez the ninja & andylockran the damsel in distress? [09:10] good morning everyone. [09:10] Ninjas are undetectable. You'll never know quite how much they helped [09:10] s/damsel/person [09:10] DJones: technically yes. Lol. [09:11] Hard disk raid was expanded > 3TB. Therefore making the server fail to boot (and update-grub to fail) [09:12] so I shrank it back down - then andy pointed me to a mini-howto, which wasn't good enough -then I restored the lvm from a backup, then we booted the kernel manually and reinstalled grub. [09:12] * Mez has now sent andylockran off to do grunt work :) [09:12] I like having a minion [09:13] Ah yeah. I love that about grub. Rather than expending the effort to make it *good* and *do more*, it seems they just fancied making it horrific to configure. Sometimes I wonder what happened to Hurd... [09:13] Mez: what's sm? Does it fix disgruntled grubs? [09:14] BigRedS: Screen Message will display a given multi-line message as large as possible, fullscreen and black on white [09:14] oh [09:14] he keeps sshing into our display monitors and making them show random messages [09:14] that sounds more amusing than grub [09:15] * BigRedS plots [09:15] qlol [09:18] I considered sm'ing to my last place of work and freaking them out [09:18] yeah, not a good idea. [09:18] serves them right for not changing my passwords - but think they may use it as an excuse to sue me because they weren't too happy with me leaving... [09:19] didn't you just leave at and cron jobs lying around on your last day? [09:19] amateur :) [09:20] I have a professional approach :) [09:20] (hence the sm messageS) [09:21] it's not the approach we're talking about, it's the departure :) [09:23] even still - can always be employed as a consultant in the future ... [09:23] ah yeah, I did a week of 'consulting' at my last place [09:24] when they noticed they'd made me redundant and my last day was the day before the one of the two people left in the department went on holiday [09:24] that was profitable :) [09:25] Did you get "Consultants" rates? [09:26] Rather than salary + a bit for the inconvinience [09:27] sort-of. They rejigged the redundancy agreement so I got all my holiday pay (including what I'd already taken) and to keep my laptop and £(a few hundred) [09:27] Can't really complain at that [09:27] but I didn't invoice them for contracting, it was effectively as if I worked an extra week of my notice [09:27] no, not at all! That monday was my first 9-to-5 day with company, it was lovely! [09:28] Probably worked better doing that than having to invoice, get it approved, chase for payment, register for tax etc [09:28] yeah, that was their plan [09:28] it was the thursday before that week that HR noticed their cock-up [09:28] well, it was on the thursday that I asked what they intended to do, which is when they noticed [09:29] And I got to keep the box on which I'd scripted myself into redundancy. I still enjoy that bit of irony. [09:30] * DJones notes that tracing documentation through our system, a couple booked a honeymoon and Mrs O Smith was marrying a Mr Krap so she'd become Mrs O Krap :) [09:30] haha [09:31] i hope it was Miss O Smith [09:31] Good spot [09:41] What's the favourite tool for people with a low level of arsedness to use to concoct network diagrams? I've a bunch of small networks/clusters (4-8 hosts) to document and I'd like pretty pictures with handy labels and minimal mouse wiggling [09:41] BigRedS: add them to nagios and screenshot the nagios map :) [09:44] BigRedS: i get my mate bob-lad to do it for me [09:44] he has visio [09:46] BigRedS: try something new? https://github.com/blog/621-bye-bye-flash-network-graph-is-now-canvas [09:46] andylockran: that involves configuring nagios, that's a high level of arsedness :) [09:47] BigRedS: seen that firefox plugin called pencil? [09:47] MooDoo: i tried to leave a comment on your blog but its broken [09:47] oimon: nope. [09:48] * BigRedS adds that to the list :) [09:48] my blog got hacked :/ [09:48] BigRedS: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/pencil/ [09:48] czajkowski: by NewsCorp ? [09:48] oimon: ooh. [09:48] that looks generally handy [09:49] andylockran: nothing that juicy on my site ever [09:49] mostly spam links hiden on pages [09:49] but none I could seee [09:50] only some people could see them which was annoying as was hard to fix [09:51] that is a pain [09:51] I hate crackers [09:51] a client (charity) was hacked and I had to clean it up.. made a proper mess of the site. [09:51] but was a shame, as was a charity site with not much funding [09:51] but a good cause. [09:52] no ethics some people.. [09:52] i guess it's the equivalent of teenagers breaking into a youth centre and trashing it [09:52] yeah, biting the hand that feeds them [09:53] * andylockran thinks that would make a good tag line for a paper/site [09:53] popey, broken? oh paulmellors.net? [09:55] just realised in on firefox 5 [09:57] MooDoo: yeah, it failed to let me authenticate openid [09:59] oh i'll look at it [10:00] popey, it's a google blog so not sure i can fix it...:S [10:04] morning all [10:04] morning davmor2 [10:04] * davmor2 prods czajkowski [10:05] morning davmor2 [10:05] MooDoo: how was everything in the end yesterday dude? [10:05] davmor2, just waiting for results mate [10:05] Any one use Virtual Box with CentOS 4 ? [10:06] MooDoo: oh that's even worse than waiting to get them done [10:06] morning andylockran [10:10] high five's popey for being a generally helpful & top bloke. [10:11] * MooDoo thinks oimon is on drugs ;) [10:11] popey nice and helpful....never :D [10:11] lol [10:12] wonder if those fossbox guys will be back in today. would be nice to give them a load of spare machines [10:15] can somebody help, or at least point me in the right direction, I have Oneiric RC1 kernel installed, I want to uninstall it and install the latest kernel of 11.04 instead. How do I do that? [10:16] At the momsnt, I cant install 11.04 fully, as the backlight problem is still not fixed. I just want the kernel to check every now and again, to see when the problem does get fixed [10:16] oimon: you can get hold of them via their site I would imagine [10:17] yep, thats my plan b [10:17] scoundrel50a: go into packages.ubuntu.com and find the version, then go into synaptic, and search for that version, then install it. and then simply switch back and forth in grub. [10:18] how do you just install the kernel, not the whole thing [10:18] scoundrel50a: yes, just tell synaptic to install the kernel, and it will do that. [10:19] sorry, I dont know how to tell synaptic to do that, which is why i am asking. [10:19] and how do I remove oneiric? [10:20] scoundrel50a: simply tick the box next to the package, and hit apply. [10:20] 'removing' oneiric's a bit different/ what exactly do you want to do? downgrade? [10:21] "question makes no sense please restate" [10:21] no, just remove the kernel, [10:21] The kernel isn't oneiric [10:21] The kernel is Oneiric, RC1 [10:21] no [10:21] scoundrel50a: in that case, untick the package in synaptic, ie, the option to uninstall, and hit apply. [10:21] ok, so what is it then? [10:21] 'Oneiric' is Ubuntu 11.10 [10:21] the kernel is 2.6.something or (in Oneiric) 2.3 [10:22] yes, that is what I have install;ed [10:22] but only the kernel [10:22] ye4s [10:22] yeah, 'only the kernel' is not the same as 'oneiric', hence our confusion [10:23] anyway, what you want to do is install an older kernel, then boot into it and make sure it works, then remove the enw one [10:23] so install that linux-image package, reboot and select it from the grub menu [10:23] yeh, but I made that clear in my first message [10:24] er, right. So why did you start saying something else? [10:24] anyway [10:24] once booted, if you're happy with it, just remove the 3.0 kernel package and that'll be gone and the then-highest version will be default [10:24] you *can* remove the package now if you like, but if on reboot it all goes wrong you'd be in a bit of a pickle :) [10:25] why even bother? [10:25] just carry on using 3 [10:25] BigRedS: well, basically, I want to clean up [10:25] it won't make any difference [10:25] I cant nuse 3, because of the backlight problem, that is why i am removing it [10:25] i thought you said you can't use 11.04 because of the backlight problem? which is it? [10:26] the same as oneiric, it hasnt been fixed [10:26] ok, start from beginning [10:26] so you can't use 11.04 or oneiric? [10:26] so you can't actually use anything? [10:26] back a couple of months ago, [10:26] it doesn't work at all? [10:26] no [10:26] no [10:26] I AM CONFUSED [10:26] so am I now [10:27] all I wanted to ask, was how to remove oneiric, then install 11.04 kernel, that was all [10:27] if you remove oneiric (assuming you actually have it installed) and then install 11.04 kernel, all you will have left is a kernel [10:27] and I am still none the wiser [10:28] which will not be very much use to you [10:28] hence, question does not make sense, please restate [10:28] The only way to remove oneiric is to hose the partition it's on, really. But then after that you'll want to install a whole OS, not just a kernel [10:28] but in the spirit of not helping, i will answer your question anyway [10:29] to remove oneiric, simply format the partition containing it [10:29] ok, the oneiric kernel is not connected to anything, its seperate to my 10.10 installation, it just shows in the grub, [10:29] unless you're persisting in referring to the kernel as 'oneirc' as part of some dastardly plan to keep us confused [10:29] then, to install the 11.04 kernel, just unpack it using ar, and copy it to /boot [10:29] of course, you will not be able to boot, because you deleted your OS in step 1 [10:30] but it is, its oneiric 3.0.0-0300rc1 [10:30] no [10:30] it's *linux* 3.0.0-0300rci [10:30] which Oneiric happens to be using [10:31] why not just gets nattys kernel version, from packages.ubuntu.com, and then instruct synaptic, to install that, if it is in oneirics repos, or just gets the deb's from packages.ubuntu.com, and install with dpkg? [10:31] ok, now that is three different people telling me three different things [10:31] no, we are all telling you the same thing [10:31] aqnd you wonder why I am confused [10:31] you're just not listening [10:31] well, you're one person telling us at least two different things... [10:31] no, before I came on ehre today two other people told me somethign different now your teeling me somethign different again [10:32] and you wonder why i am confused? [10:32] well those two people obviously didn't have a clue and told you a bunch of rubbish :) [10:32] :( [10:32] one of the was a somebody from ubuntu-x [10:32] Oh, before on here. That's fine [10:32] and another one was somebody from here [10:33] What did they tell you? And did you ask them how to remove Oneiric, or how to replace Linux 3.0 with Linux 2.6.*? [10:33] ok let me see if i have got this straight [10:33] because you're flitting between both here, and they're utterly different processes [10:33] you have 10.10 installed [10:33] you can't upgrade to 11.04 because the kernel backlight bug [10:33] yes [10:33] which of those? [10:33] you wanted to check if oneiric the bug was fixed, so you installed the kernel from oneiric onto your 10.10 install [10:34] that is correct ali1234 [10:34] (from my memory) [10:34] so now you want to ... ? [10:34] (remove the linux 3.0 kernel) [10:34] i.e. go back to vanilla 10.10 [10:34] (my understanding from scrollback) [10:34] so that should be easy enough. just do what brob said right at the start [10:34] no [10:35] I dont know, you have lost me completely now [10:35] ok what result are you looking for? [10:35] I am usinig 10-.10 on same computer now [10:35] "make computer work again" how is that? [10:35] or are you still looking for a fix to use 11.04 or 11.10? [10:36] I want to remove the rc1 kernel [10:36] Ah the specials - Ghost town what a track :) [10:36] ok so just load up synaptic, search for "linux-image" and then remove it [10:37] ok, and will that break my 10.10 [10:37] make sure you have at least one version of "linux-image" installed though [10:37] it will break if you don't have at least one version of it installed [10:37] I have up to date version of 10.10 installed [10:38] so you know how to use grub to select kernel version? [10:38] yes, which is how I am using 10.10 to post on here [10:39] good. so you have all the kernel versions installed [10:39] so just use synaptic to search linux-image and remove the ones you don't want [10:39] only remove the ones with a number after the name [10:40] ok, I found the image in synaptic, and its just on its own, nothing with it, so I removing it now, [10:40] lol [10:40] that sounds bad [10:40] make a screenshot of what you found [10:41] it sounds to me like you're doing it wrong [10:41] too late, the image has been removed [10:49] ok, that didint cause any problems with this installation of 10.10. How can I install the image of 11.04 without it affecting my installation, the same way as the rc1 image was installed. I need to be able to check 11.04 to see of there are any changes. [10:50] yesterday i was looking over someones shoulder on the train and they had course material for city & guilds diploma in IT support . on the page was a large picture of a floppy disk, showing write protect tab and other such features. the text began "nowadays many pcs come preinstalled with a floppy disk drive..."...how old is this stuff? [10:51] scoundrel50a: i highly doubt it wil get fixed in 11.04 [10:52] anyway you just download the deb file and double click on it [10:53] where do I find it? [10:58] ok, does anybody know where the .deb files are found for 11.04? [10:59] scoundrel50a: packages.ubuntu.com [11:04] ok, thanks [11:08] I think scoundrel50a isnt going to get anywhere just installing linux kernels from higher releases [11:09] i agree, we need to work out what is causing the issue. rather than just wildly messing with kernel's [11:10] you need to perform a git bisect and find the commit the breaks the backlight [11:14] http://wiki.debian.org/DebianKernel/GitBisect [11:16] so... cron has stopped working for me today on my server, how do you debug cron/cronjobs? [11:18] /etc/init.d/cron status? [11:19] gord: virtual machine or physical? [11:19] andylockran, physical === 18WAA03BP is now known as Catbuskris [11:19] andylockran, cron is running [11:20] but it's just failed to execute when it should have? [11:20] I'd set a cron for 2 minutes time and see what happends [11:20] yup, i have imap filter run on my imap mailbox every 5 minutes, doesn't get called [11:20] maybe i should just restart the machine like its been bugging me to do for about two months [11:21] might be something lowlevel that would be difficult to sort [11:21] turn it off and on again :) [11:21] awww maaan, i hate doing that. ubuntu will find some reason to say "hey, i know i haven't started openssh yet but press a certain button!" [11:22] i tried to do "sudo apt-get shutdown -r now" . its not my day today [11:22] brainfarts suck [11:24] heey it restarted fine [11:26] gord: you know there was a dodgy patch that hit lucid and killed cron jobs? [11:26] about 2 months ago [11:26] *grumble* [11:27] yeah, there wasa USN about it [11:27] popey, yeah i got hit by that, which is why i mentioned it here in case it was happening again :) [11:27] ahhh [11:27] #blamedaviey [11:27] hah, not me gv'nor [11:27] yeah, you say that when the boss is in the room ;) [11:27] The nicer one, was installing gnome on servers due to a langpack mistake [11:28] ooo thats fun [11:28] "Here, have a free GUI!" [11:28] yeah, automated updates++ [11:29] So it's now 2 weeks since I installed Ubuntu 11.04 on a Samsung netbook for an 8 year old girl.. [11:29] the only feedback I have had is "It's working fine" [11:29] I am starting to panic that its broken and they feel bad about it and dont want to bug me [11:29] heh [11:29] why panic you do a good install [11:29] so kind [11:29] popey: you tested it ? [11:29] no feedback from my own kids either! [11:29] put on the applications they'd use [11:29] me: "have you used the computer today?" [11:30] sophie: "yeah" [11:30] me: "and?" [11:30] I'm sure it's perfect [11:30] sophie: "and what?" [11:30] testing?! [11:30] me: "any problems" [11:30] sophie: "No." [11:30] popey: yeah but you're kids do kinda rock :) are they coming on Sunday [11:30] * popey worries too much [11:30] thanks [11:30] popey: see pm for a laugh so [11:30] Sam is, Sophie is in a ballet festival [11:30] ahhh cool :) [11:31] I expect Sam will spend most of the day on my shoulders [11:31] heheh [11:31] getting bored in the museum [11:31] Ooo, gonna skip oggcamp and head to the ballet festival methinks. [11:31] popey: their 8 year olds they know more about computer than you think you do ;) [11:31] I installed WINE on the laptop and called up a company that makes educational software for windows [11:32] me: "will it work on linux using wine" [11:32] him: "uhhhh" [11:32] me: "Look, is your software mostly based on flash?" [11:32] him: "Yeah, 100% flash" [11:32] turns out it work in WINE just perfectly [11:32] popey: Awesome. You're being a gnusiance. I do that often to these proprietary vendors. [11:32] http://www.nessy.com/ [11:32] tis fun software too [11:32] I had a play :D [11:32] popey: to really piss him off next time, say GNU/Linux instead of just "linux" [11:33] I never say GNU/Linux [11:33] ever [11:33] You just did [11:33] oracology: it's less GNU than other people. [11:33] oracology: so if you insist on mentioning GNU, insist on mentioning those others as well [11:33] MartijnVdS: oh fair enough. it's just for being an annoyance. [11:33] I wasnt intending to be an annoyance [11:34] ahhh nevermind then. :) [11:34] What would good is if the company made a little note on their website to say "Works in Linux under WINE" [11:34] in fact I'll call them up and tell them it works [11:34] I'd love it if he responded... "Well, running it again just linux won't exactly work, as you need the userspace to allow execution." [11:34] even printing works fine [11:34] heh [11:34] s/again/against/ [11:34] gnu/redhat/novell/microsoft/apple/canonical/random people/linux doesn't have the same ring though right? [11:35] he actually asked me to get back in contact because they may get other customers asking [11:35] good idea popey :) [11:35] I hadn't intended on starting a semantics war people! sorry!! :( [11:35] hah [11:35] oracology: hippy :D [11:35] * jussi hides from davmor2 [11:36] popey: that is a great idea. let them get something out of this too. [11:36] popey: also, maybe submit it to wineHQ? [11:36] good idea! [11:36] do flash produce linux binaries too? for the stand alone stuff, i mean that machinarium game was 100% flash i think [11:37] gord: are you coming to oggcamp or is ther a sprint on [11:37] popey: well, my issue with these people is that they're paid to answer phones and can never deal past the most basic questions. fair enough i guess, but if someone comes along with some legitimate knowledge, it should get crammed into their brains. [11:39] davmor2: hey i'm just taking it from stallman. he got really pissed one time and lectured everyone on why it's GNU/Linux. just trying to satisfy as many people as possible. that said, it probably does need a name to capture all the other entities who helped in its creation. [11:40] oracology: That's easy The Peoples Linux that credits everyone then :) [11:41] davmor2: that has an awesome ring to it :) [11:41] czajkowski, no plans to right now, maybe will feel more like it closer to the date if work is less hectic, its the weekend after feature freeze [11:42] it's actually an interesting point i guess, that GNU/Linux actually does miss the point just as much as "Linux" does. i hadn't realized that it is actually less GNU than other stuff, MartijnVdS, davmor2. [11:43] but enough of that. i'll go mull that over and learn something out of it :) [11:43] this is why I say "Ubuntu" :D [11:44] jussi: why run and hide from me, czajkowski I can understand ;) [11:44] davmor2: hehe, yes, but you are both scary peoples... [11:44] * jussi hides behind popey [11:45] popey: you're probably right, that is the closest we'll get...given that if it works on Ubuntu, you could probably make it work on Fedora, for instance. [11:45] jussi: don't think that will protect you popey see us coming after you he'll soon move :D [11:45] what is up with jussi hiding from people, may I ask? :) [11:46] davmor2: see, popey is scared of you also? [11:46] :P [11:46] jussi: hahaha [11:46] oracology: nothing, just friday afternoon stupidness and a reason to give out to davmor2 (like I need one) [11:47] jussi: hahaha, understood. i'm staying in today myself to read some stuff for monday...friday afternoon stupidness well on its way here too! [11:48] jussi: czajkowski is head of the ubuntu Mafioso she is the DON! it's not surprising that popey would give you up, she appears everywhere well kinda like popey, maybe their in it together :D [11:49] O_O [11:49] * oracology pours out some Pimms and lemonade to watch the fun. [11:50] * oracology is glad it's sunny and warm right now. [11:50] Yay! Friday fun [11:50] that's what "ff" should stand for on those twitter/statusnet things. [11:51] oracology: I just assume they forgot the "s" in "ffs" [11:51] MartijnVdS: well said. :) [11:52] So popey back to the 8 year olds, you've installed Ubuntu, and heard nothing back and you think that is a bad thing, why? The only things I could think of were that everything was fine they'll soon let you know if it isn't trust me [11:52] davmor2: I'm a lady and take part in no such things [11:52] davmor2: some people don't like to bother their support person, especially when they got the support for free [11:52] wifey will be seeing her tonight anyway, will ask her to check all is okay [11:53] popey: Pop round for a cuppa, take cake :) That always makes people talk [11:53] hah [11:53] * daubers never understood why the gestapo didn't just bring tea and cake [11:53] popey: I found the opposite they can't do something they are soon back around you put it on you sort it out :) [11:53] * popey goes into "town" for "lunch" [11:54] czajkowski: See only the true DON would deny it, you must be the DON! [11:55] using monty pythons life of brian as an example of the fact [11:55] She not the DON! she's a very naughty girl! :D [11:58] davmor2, did czajkowski say lady then? [11:58] s/town/pub s/lunch/????? [11:58] davmor2, put her in the iron maiden.....er #naughtystep [11:59] MooDoo: yeah but we know that can't be right she swears in Irish too much to get away with that one [12:01] "launchpad_net: Available in the next two hours to take part in a 25 minute phone call to help us test Launchpad? There's an Amazon voucher in it for you :)" [12:01] if anyone has some free time ^^ [12:01] Dave2, feck....:) [12:01] oops [12:01]