[00:13] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Community Leadership Summit 2011 This Weekend! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/07/22/cls-this-weekend/
[06:57] <MooDoo> hello all
[07:07] <DJones> Morning
[07:11] <AlanBell> morning
[07:13] <AlanBell> today will mostly involve lunch
[07:39] <daubers> Morning
[07:39] <popey> Yes!
[07:40]  * daubers has been pondering whether or not to stay in farnham for oggcamp or just commute in from Reading both days
[07:41] <daubers> pretty sure it'd be near cost neutral either way (excluding the excessive amount of drinks I may consume if I satyed in farnham)
[07:41] <popey> stay stay stay
[07:42] <daubers> I'll reconsider my options once I've been paid next week I think....
[07:42] <daubers> If I don't stay, what I save on alcohol and food might go a long way to buying a kindle....
[07:43] <popey> heh
[07:47] <daubers> popey: Small typo on the oggcamp site
[07:48] <daubers> http://oggcamp.org/venue "in Farnhma, Surrey"
[07:50] <popey> fixed
[07:52] <daubers> \o/
[07:52]  * daubers needs to mug his bosses and put some storage together next week for oggcamp
[07:53] <daubers> Other unit I built for it got sold :(
[07:56] <daubers> and a light gatey arduino thing in case I have the sudden urge to do a talk
[08:16] <AlanBell> daubers: stay at the unofficial campsite
[08:20] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:28] <AlanBell> time to head off to lunch I think
[08:31] <bigcalm> o.O
[08:31] <DJones> Thats an early lunch
[08:31] <bigcalm> That's crazy man, crazy!
[08:36] <BigRedS> if it's before ten it's breakfast
[08:38] <bigcalm> Please don't make me think of McDonald's
[08:39]  * DJones thinks of bacon, sausage, fried eggs, black pudding, fried bread, baked beans & HP sauce
[08:40] <bigcalm> Ok, that you don't get at McDonald's :)
[08:40] <bigcalm> Possibly Tesco or ASDA
[08:40] <DJones> Yeah, it contains real meat :)
[08:40] <bigcalm> Now I wish I lived far enough up north that cafes serve blackpudding
[08:41] <bigcalm> It's a rareity in the West Midlands
[08:41] <DJones> You'll have to have a day trip to Bolton on somewhere like that
[08:46] <andrewebdev> right, so I think I found a bug in Ubuntu Natty, how can I get some kind of traceback of events so that I can log a ticket? basically, if I cut and paste from Libre Office Calc, into Vim (running in terminal) then my computer restarts.
[08:47] <BigRedS> wow. that's a bit destructive.
[08:48] <BigRedS> does it do an instant restart, as if you hit the reset button, or reboot with a relatively clean shutdown first?
[08:49] <andrewebdev> BigRedS, basically it logs the user out and sits at the login screen
[08:49] <andrewebdev> instantly
[08:50] <BigRedS> oh, so not quite a restart
[08:50] <andrewebdev> all programs closed, nothing saved
[08:50] <andrewebdev> My laptop fan also starts revving up
[08:51] <BigRedS> I've no idea what sort of logs to look at for a trace, probably best to file a bug and see what the people fixing it would like by way of info
[08:51] <andrewebdev> k
[08:51] <BigRedS> Does it happen when copying into anything other than vim? Or from anything other than LO into vim?
[09:00]  * andylockran is ninja
[09:00] <andylockran> HOWDY!
[09:00] <andylockran> :p
[09:03] <czajkowski> Aloha
[09:07] <andylockran> czajkowski: how's tricks?
[09:08] <czajkowski> ntb
[09:09] <BigRedS> ninjas don't say howdy. that's cowboys
[09:09] <BigRedS> I think you're an impostor
[09:09]  * Mez thinks he shouldn't have taught andylockran about sm
[09:09] <Mez> BigRedS: no, it's him.
[09:10] <Mez> unfortunately.
[09:10] <Mez> he think's he's ninja because I just fixed something.
[09:10] <BigRedS> Oh
[09:10] <BigRedS> ahhh, that sort of a ninja!
[09:10] <Mez> (though, he admittedly helped a little)
[09:10] <DJones> If Mez fixed it, wouldn't that make Mez the ninja & andylockran the damsel in distress?
[09:10] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:10] <BigRedS> Ninjas are undetectable. You'll never know quite how much they helped
[09:10] <DJones> s/damsel/person
[09:10] <Mez> DJones: technically yes.  Lol.
[09:11] <Mez> Hard disk raid was expanded > 3TB.  Therefore making the server fail to boot (and update-grub to fail)
[09:12] <Mez> so I shrank it back down - then andy pointed me to a mini-howto, which wasn't good enough -then I restored the lvm from a backup, then we booted the kernel manually and reinstalled grub.
[09:12]  * Mez has now sent andylockran off to do grunt work :)
[09:12] <Mez> I like having a minion
[09:13] <BigRedS> Ah yeah. I love that about grub. Rather than expending the effort to make it *good* and *do more*, it seems they just fancied making it horrific to configure. Sometimes I wonder what happened to Hurd...
[09:13] <BigRedS> Mez: what's sm? Does it fix disgruntled grubs?
[09:14] <Mez> BigRedS: Screen Message  will  display  a given multi-line message as large as possible, fullscreen and black on white
[09:14] <BigRedS> oh
[09:14] <Mez> he keeps sshing into our display monitors and making them show random messages
[09:14] <BigRedS> that sounds more amusing than grub
[09:15]  * BigRedS plots
[09:15] <Mez> qlol
[09:18] <andylockran> I considered sm'ing to my last place of work and freaking them out
[09:18] <Mez> yeah, not a good idea.
[09:18] <andylockran> serves them right for not changing my passwords - but think they may use it as an excuse to sue me because they weren't too happy with me leaving...
[09:19] <BigRedS> didn't you just leave at and cron jobs lying around on your last day?
[09:19] <BigRedS> amateur :)
[09:20] <andylockran> I have a professional approach :)
[09:20] <andylockran> (hence the sm messageS)
[09:21] <BigRedS> it's not the approach we're talking about, it's the departure :)
[09:23] <andylockran> even still - can always be employed as a consultant in the future ...
[09:23] <BigRedS> ah yeah, I did a week of 'consulting' at my last place
[09:24] <BigRedS> when they noticed they'd made me redundant and my last day was the day before the one of the two people left in the department went on holiday
[09:24] <BigRedS> that was profitable :)
[09:25] <DJones> Did you get "Consultants" rates?
[09:26] <DJones> Rather than salary + a bit for the inconvinience
[09:27] <BigRedS> sort-of. They rejigged the redundancy agreement so I got all my holiday pay (including what I'd already taken) and to keep my laptop and £(a few hundred)
[09:27] <DJones> Can't really complain at that
[09:27] <BigRedS> but I didn't invoice them for contracting, it was effectively as if I worked an extra week of my notice
[09:27] <BigRedS> no, not at all! That monday was my first 9-to-5 day with company, it was lovely!
[09:28] <DJones> Probably worked better doing that than having to invoice, get it approved, chase for payment, register for tax etc
[09:28] <BigRedS> yeah, that was their plan
[09:28] <BigRedS> it was the thursday before that week that HR noticed their cock-up
[09:28] <BigRedS> well, it was on the thursday that I asked what they intended to do, which is when they noticed
[09:29] <BigRedS> And I got to keep the box on which I'd scripted myself into redundancy. I still enjoy that bit of irony.
[09:30]  * DJones notes that tracing documentation through our system, a couple booked a honeymoon and Mrs O Smith was marrying a Mr Krap so she'd become Mrs O Krap :)
[09:30] <BigRedS> haha
[09:31] <oimon> i hope it was Miss O Smith
[09:31] <DJones> Good spot
[09:41] <BigRedS> What's the favourite tool for people with a low level of arsedness to use to concoct network diagrams? I've a bunch of small networks/clusters (4-8 hosts) to document and I'd like pretty pictures with handy labels and minimal mouse wiggling
[09:41] <andylockran> BigRedS: add them to nagios and screenshot the nagios map :)
[09:44] <popey> BigRedS: i get my mate bob-lad to do it for me
[09:44] <popey> he has visio
[09:46] <bigcalm> BigRedS: try something new? https://github.com/blog/621-bye-bye-flash-network-graph-is-now-canvas
[09:46] <BigRedS> andylockran: that involves configuring nagios, that's a high level of arsedness :)
[09:47] <oimon> BigRedS: seen that firefox plugin called pencil?
[09:47] <popey> MooDoo: i tried to leave a comment on your blog but its broken
[09:47] <BigRedS> oimon: nope.
[09:48]  * BigRedS adds that to the list :)
[09:48] <czajkowski> my blog got hacked :/
[09:48] <oimon> BigRedS: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/pencil/
[09:48] <andylockran> czajkowski: by NewsCorp ?
[09:48] <BigRedS> oimon: ooh.
[09:48] <BigRedS> that looks generally handy
[09:49] <czajkowski> andylockran: nothing that juicy on my site ever
[09:49] <czajkowski> mostly spam links hiden on pages
[09:49] <czajkowski> but none I could seee
[09:50] <czajkowski> only some people could see them which was annoying as was hard to fix
[09:51] <andylockran> that is a pain
[09:51] <andylockran> I hate crackers
[09:51] <andylockran> a client (charity) was hacked and I had to clean it up.. made a proper mess of the site.
[09:51] <andylockran> but was a shame, as was a charity site with not much funding
[09:51] <andylockran> but a good cause.
[09:52] <andylockran> no ethics some people..
[09:52] <oimon> i guess it's the equivalent of teenagers breaking into a youth centre and trashing it
[09:52] <andylockran> yeah, biting the hand that feeds them
[09:53]  * andylockran thinks that would make a good tag line for a paper/site
[09:53] <MooDoo> popey, broken?   oh paulmellors.net?
[09:55] <oimon> just realised in on firefox 5
[09:57] <popey> MooDoo: yeah, it failed to let me authenticate openid
[09:59] <MooDoo> oh i'll look at it
[10:00] <MooDoo> popey, it's a google blog so not sure i can fix it...:S
[10:04] <davmor2> morning all
[10:04] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[10:04]  * davmor2 prods czajkowski 
[10:05] <andylockran> morning davmor2
[10:05] <davmor2> MooDoo: how was everything in the end yesterday dude?
[10:05] <MooDoo> davmor2, just waiting for results mate
[10:05] <diplo-> Any one use Virtual Box with CentOS 4 ?
[10:06] <davmor2> MooDoo: oh that's even worse than waiting to get them done
[10:06] <davmor2> morning andylockran
[10:10] <oimon> high five's popey for being a generally helpful & top  bloke.
[10:11]  * MooDoo thinks oimon is on drugs ;)
[10:11] <MooDoo> popey nice and helpful....never :D
[10:11] <MooDoo> lol
[10:12] <oimon> wonder if those fossbox guys will be back in today. would be nice to give them a load of spare machines
[10:15] <scoundrel50a> can somebody help, or at least point me in the right direction, I have Oneiric RC1 kernel installed, I want to uninstall it and install the latest kernel of 11.04 instead. How do I do that?
[10:16] <scoundrel50a> At the momsnt, I cant install 11.04 fully, as the backlight problem is still not fixed. I just want the kernel to check every now and again, to see when the problem does get fixed
[10:16] <davmor2> oimon: you can get hold of them via their site I would imagine
[10:17] <oimon> yep, thats my plan b
[10:17] <brobostigon> scoundrel50a: go into packages.ubuntu.com and find the version, then go into synaptic, and search for that version, then install it. and then simply switch back and forth in grub.
[10:18] <scoundrel50a> how do you just install the kernel, not the whole thing
[10:18] <brobostigon> scoundrel50a: yes, just tell synaptic to install the kernel, and it will do that.
[10:19] <scoundrel50a> sorry, I dont know how to tell synaptic to do that, which is why i am asking.
[10:19] <scoundrel50a> and how do I remove oneiric?
[10:20] <brobostigon> scoundrel50a: simply tick the box next to the package, and hit apply.
[10:20] <BigRedS> 'removing' oneiric's a bit different/ what exactly do you want to do? downgrade?
[10:21] <ali1234> "question makes no sense please restate"
[10:21] <scoundrel50a> no, just remove the kernel,
[10:21] <BigRedS> The kernel isn't oneiric
[10:21] <scoundrel50a> The kernel is Oneiric, RC1
[10:21] <BigRedS> no
[10:21] <brobostigon> scoundrel50a: in that case, untick the package in synaptic, ie, the option to uninstall, and hit apply.
[10:21] <scoundrel50a> ok, so what is it then?
[10:21] <BigRedS> 'Oneiric' is Ubuntu 11.10
[10:21] <BigRedS> the kernel is 2.6.something or (in Oneiric) 2.3
[10:22] <scoundrel50a> yes, that is what I have install;ed
[10:22] <scoundrel50a> but only the kernel
[10:22] <scoundrel50a> ye4s
[10:22] <BigRedS> yeah, 'only the kernel' is not the same as 'oneiric', hence our confusion
[10:23] <BigRedS> anyway, what you want to do is install an older kernel, then boot into it and make sure it works, then remove the enw one
[10:23] <BigRedS> so install that linux-image package, reboot and select it from the grub menu
[10:23] <scoundrel50a> yeh, but I made that clear in my first message
[10:24] <BigRedS> er, right. So why did you start saying something else?
[10:24] <BigRedS> anyway
[10:24] <BigRedS> once booted, if you're happy with it, just remove the 3.0 kernel package and that'll be gone and the then-highest version will be default
[10:24] <BigRedS> you *can* remove the package now if you like, but if on reboot it all goes wrong you'd be in a bit of a pickle :)
[10:25] <ali1234> why even bother?
[10:25] <ali1234> just carry on using 3
[10:25] <scoundrel50a> BigRedS: well, basically, I want to clean up
[10:25] <ali1234> it won't make any difference
[10:25] <scoundrel50a> I cant nuse 3, because of the backlight problem, that is why i am removing it
[10:25] <ali1234> i thought you said you can't use 11.04 because of the backlight problem? which is it?
[10:26] <scoundrel50a> the same as oneiric, it hasnt been fixed
[10:26] <scoundrel50a> ok, start from beginning
[10:26] <ali1234> so you can't use 11.04 or oneiric?
[10:26] <ali1234> so you can't actually use anything?
[10:26] <scoundrel50a> back a couple of months ago,
[10:26] <ali1234> it doesn't work at all?
[10:26] <scoundrel50a> no
[10:26] <scoundrel50a> no
[10:26] <ali1234> I AM CONFUSED
[10:26] <scoundrel50a> so am I now
[10:27] <scoundrel50a> all I wanted to ask, was how to remove oneiric, then install 11.04 kernel, that was all
[10:27] <ali1234> if you remove oneiric (assuming you actually have it installed) and then install 11.04 kernel, all you will have left is a kernel
[10:27] <scoundrel50a> and I am still none the wiser
[10:28] <ali1234> which will not be very much use to you
[10:28] <ali1234> hence, question does not make sense, please restate
[10:28] <BigRedS> The only way to remove oneiric is to hose the partition it's on, really. But then after that you'll want to install a whole OS, not just a kernel
[10:28] <ali1234> but in the spirit of not helping, i will answer your question anyway
[10:29] <ali1234> to remove oneiric, simply format the partition containing it
[10:29] <scoundrel50a> ok, the oneiric kernel is not connected to anything, its seperate to my 10.10 installation, it just shows in the grub,
[10:29] <BigRedS> unless you're persisting in referring to the kernel as 'oneirc' as part of some dastardly plan to keep us confused
[10:29] <ali1234> then, to install the 11.04 kernel, just unpack it using ar, and copy it to /boot
[10:29] <ali1234> of course, you will not be able to boot, because you deleted your OS in step 1
[10:30] <scoundrel50a> but it is, its oneiric 3.0.0-0300rc1
[10:30] <BigRedS> no
[10:30] <BigRedS> it's *linux* 3.0.0-0300rci
[10:30] <BigRedS> which Oneiric happens to be using
[10:31] <brobostigon> why not just gets nattys kernel version, from packages.ubuntu.com, and then instruct synaptic, to install that, if it is in oneirics repos, or just gets the deb's from packages.ubuntu.com, and install with dpkg?
[10:31] <scoundrel50a> ok, now that is three different people telling me three different things
[10:31] <ali1234> no, we are all telling you the same thing
[10:31] <scoundrel50a> aqnd you wonder why I am confused
[10:31] <ali1234> you're just not listening
[10:31] <BigRedS> well, you're one person telling us at least two different things...
[10:31] <scoundrel50a> no, before I came on ehre today two other people told me somethign different now your teeling me somethign different again
[10:32] <scoundrel50a> and you wonder why i am confused?
[10:32] <ali1234> well those two people obviously didn't have a clue and told you a bunch of rubbish :)
[10:32] <BigRedS> :(
[10:32] <scoundrel50a> one of the was a somebody from ubuntu-x
[10:32] <BigRedS> Oh, before on here. That's fine
[10:32] <scoundrel50a> and another one was somebody from here
[10:33] <BigRedS> What did they tell you? And did you ask them how to remove Oneiric, or how to replace Linux 3.0 with Linux 2.6.*?
[10:33] <ali1234> ok let me see if i have got this straight
[10:33] <BigRedS> because you're flitting between both here, and they're utterly different processes
[10:33] <ali1234> you have 10.10 installed
[10:33] <ali1234> you can't upgrade to 11.04 because the kernel backlight bug
[10:33] <scoundrel50a> yes
[10:33] <brobostigon> which of those?
[10:33] <ali1234> you wanted to check if oneiric the bug was fixed, so you installed the kernel from oneiric onto your 10.10 install
[10:34] <popey> that is correct ali1234
[10:34] <popey> (from my memory)
[10:34] <ali1234> so now you want to ... ?
[10:34] <popey> (remove the linux 3.0 kernel)
[10:34] <popey> i.e. go back to vanilla 10.10
[10:34] <popey> (my understanding from scrollback)
[10:34] <ali1234> so that should be easy enough. just do what brob said right at the start
[10:34] <scoundrel50a> no
[10:35] <scoundrel50a> I dont know, you have lost me completely now
[10:35] <ali1234> ok what result are you looking for?
[10:35] <scoundrel50a> I am usinig 10-.10 on same computer now
[10:35] <ali1234> "make computer work again" how is that?
[10:35] <ali1234> or are you still looking for a fix to use 11.04 or 11.10?
[10:36] <scoundrel50a> I want to remove the rc1 kernel
[10:36] <davmor2> Ah the specials - Ghost town what a track :)
[10:36] <ali1234> ok so just load up synaptic, search for "linux-image" and then remove it
[10:37] <scoundrel50a> ok, and will that break my 10.10
[10:37] <ali1234> make sure you have at least one version of "linux-image" installed though
[10:37] <ali1234> it will break if you don't have at least one version of it installed
[10:37] <scoundrel50a> I have up to date version of 10.10 installed
[10:38] <ali1234> so you know how to use grub to select kernel version?
[10:38] <scoundrel50a> yes, which is how I am using 10.10 to post on here
[10:39] <ali1234> good. so you have all the kernel versions installed
[10:39] <ali1234> so just use synaptic to search linux-image and remove the ones you don't want
[10:39] <ali1234> only remove the ones with a number after the name
[10:40] <scoundrel50a> ok, I found the image in synaptic, and its just on its own, nothing with it, so I removing it now,
[10:40] <ali1234> lol
[10:40] <ali1234> that sounds bad
[10:40] <ali1234> make a screenshot of what you found
[10:41] <ali1234> it sounds to me like you're doing it wrong
[10:41] <scoundrel50a> too late, the image has been removed
[10:49] <scoundrel50a> ok, that didint cause any problems with this installation of 10.10. How can I install the image of 11.04 without it affecting my installation, the same way as the rc1 image was installed. I need to be able to check 11.04 to see of there are any changes.
[10:50] <oimon> yesterday i was looking over someones shoulder on the train and they had course material for city & guilds diploma in IT support . on the page was a large picture of a floppy disk, showing write protect tab and other such features. the text began "nowadays many pcs come preinstalled with a floppy disk drive..."...how old is this stuff?
[10:51] <ali1234> scoundrel50a: i highly doubt it wil get fixed in 11.04
[10:52] <ali1234> anyway you just download the deb file and double click on it
[10:53] <scoundrel50a> where do I find it?
[10:58] <scoundrel50a> ok, does anybody know where the .deb files are found for 11.04?
[10:59] <brobostigon> scoundrel50a: packages.ubuntu.com
[11:04] <scoundrel50a> ok, thanks
[11:08] <popey> I think scoundrel50a isnt going to get anywhere just installing linux kernels from higher releases
[11:09] <brobostigon> i agree, we need to work out what is causing the issue. rather than just wildly messing with kernel's
[11:10] <ali1234> you need to perform a git bisect and find the commit the breaks the backlight
[11:14] <ali1234> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianKernel/GitBisect
[11:16] <gord> so... cron has stopped working for me today on my server, how do you debug cron/cronjobs?
[11:18] <andylockran> /etc/init.d/cron status?
[11:19] <andylockran> gord: virtual machine or physical?
[11:19] <gord> andylockran, physical
[11:19] <gord> andylockran, cron is running
[11:20] <andylockran> but it's just failed to execute when it should have?
[11:20] <andylockran> I'd set a cron for 2 minutes time and see what happends
[11:20] <gord> yup, i have imap filter run on my imap mailbox every 5 minutes, doesn't get called
[11:20] <gord> maybe i should just restart the machine like its been bugging me to do for about two months
[11:21] <andylockran> might be something lowlevel that would be difficult to sort
[11:21] <andylockran> turn it off and on again :)
[11:21] <gord> awww maaan, i hate doing that. ubuntu will find some reason to say "hey, i know i haven't started openssh yet but press a certain button!"
[11:22] <gord> i tried to do "sudo apt-get shutdown -r now" . its not my day today
[11:22] <andylockran> brainfarts suck
[11:24] <gord> heey it restarted fine
[11:26] <popey> gord: you know there was a dodgy patch that hit lucid and killed cron jobs?
[11:26] <popey> about 2 months ago
[11:26] <bigcalm> *grumble*
[11:27] <Daviey> yeah, there wasa USN about it
[11:27] <gord> popey, yeah i got hit by that, which is why i mentioned it here in case it was happening again :)
[11:27] <popey> ahhh
[11:27] <popey> #blamedaviey
[11:27] <Daviey> hah, not me gv'nor
[11:27] <popey> yeah, you say that when the boss is in the room ;)
[11:27] <Daviey> The nicer one, was installing gnome on servers due to a langpack mistake
[11:28] <popey> ooo thats fun
[11:28] <popey> "Here, have a free GUI!"
[11:28] <Daviey> yeah, automated updates++
[11:29] <popey> So it's now 2 weeks since I installed Ubuntu 11.04 on a Samsung netbook for an 8 year old girl..
[11:29] <popey> the only feedback I have had is "It's working fine"
[11:29] <popey> I am starting to panic that its broken and they feel bad about it and dont want to bug me
[11:29] <daubers> heh
[11:29] <czajkowski> why panic you do a good install
[11:29] <popey> so kind
[11:29] <czajkowski> popey: you tested it ?
[11:29] <popey> no feedback from my own kids either!
[11:29] <czajkowski> put on the applications they'd use
[11:29] <popey> me: "have you used the computer today?"
[11:30] <popey> sophie: "yeah"
[11:30] <popey> me: "and?"
[11:30] <czajkowski> I'm sure it's perfect
[11:30] <popey> sophie: "and what?"
[11:30] <Daviey> testing?!
[11:30] <popey> me: "any problems"
[11:30] <popey> sophie: "No."
[11:30] <czajkowski> popey: yeah but you're kids do kinda rock :) are they coming on Sunday
[11:30]  * popey worries too much
[11:30] <popey> thanks
[11:30] <czajkowski> popey: see pm for a laugh so
[11:30] <popey> Sam is, Sophie is in a ballet festival
[11:30] <czajkowski> ahhh cool :)
[11:31] <popey> I expect Sam will spend most of the day on my shoulders
[11:31] <czajkowski> heheh
[11:31] <popey> getting bored in the museum
[11:31] <Daviey> Ooo, gonna skip oggcamp and head to the ballet festival methinks.
[11:31] <davmor2> popey: their 8 year olds they know more about computer than you think you do ;)
[11:31] <popey> I installed WINE on the laptop and called up a company that makes educational software for windows
[11:32] <popey> me: "will it work on linux using wine"
[11:32] <popey> him: "uhhhh"
[11:32] <popey> me: "Look, is your software mostly based on flash?"
[11:32] <popey> him: "Yeah, 100% flash"
[11:32] <popey> turns out it work in WINE just perfectly
[11:32] <oracology> popey: Awesome. You're being a gnusiance. I do that often to these proprietary vendors.
[11:32] <popey> http://www.nessy.com/
[11:32] <popey> tis fun software too
[11:32] <popey> I had a play :D
[11:32] <oracology> popey: to really piss him off next time, say GNU/Linux instead of just "linux"
[11:33] <popey> I never say GNU/Linux
[11:33] <popey> ever
[11:33] <bigcalm> You just did
[11:33] <MartijnVdS> oracology: it's less GNU than other people.
[11:33] <MartijnVdS> oracology: so if you insist on mentioning GNU, insist on mentioning those others as well
[11:33] <oracology> MartijnVdS: oh fair enough. it's just for being an annoyance.
[11:33] <popey> I wasnt intending to be an annoyance
[11:34] <oracology> ahhh nevermind then. :)
[11:34] <popey> What would good is if the company made a little note on their website to say "Works in Linux under WINE"
[11:34] <popey> in fact I'll call them up and tell them it works
[11:34] <Daviey> I'd love it if he responded... "Well, running it again just linux won't exactly work, as you need the userspace to allow execution."
[11:34] <popey> even printing works fine
[11:34] <popey> heh
[11:34] <Daviey> s/again/against/
[11:34] <davmor2> gnu/redhat/novell/microsoft/apple/canonical/random people/linux doesn't have the same ring though right?
[11:35] <popey> he actually asked me to get back in contact because they may get other customers asking
[11:35] <brobostigon> good idea popey :)
[11:35] <oracology> I hadn't intended on starting a semantics war people! sorry!! :(
[11:35] <popey> hah
[11:35] <popey> oracology: hippy :D
[11:35]  * jussi hides from davmor2
[11:36] <oracology> popey: that is a great idea. let them get something out of this too.
[11:36] <oracology> popey: also, maybe submit it to wineHQ?
[11:36] <popey> good idea!
[11:36] <gord> do flash produce linux binaries too? for the stand alone stuff, i mean that machinarium game was 100% flash i think
[11:37] <czajkowski> gord: are you coming to oggcamp or is ther a sprint on
[11:37] <oracology> popey: well, my issue with these people is that they're paid to answer phones and can never deal past the most basic questions. fair enough i guess, but if someone comes along with some legitimate knowledge, it should get crammed into their brains.
[11:39] <oracology> davmor2: hey i'm just taking it from stallman. he got really pissed one time and lectured everyone on why it's GNU/Linux. just trying to satisfy as many people as possible. that said, it probably does need a name to capture all the other entities who helped in its creation.
[11:40] <davmor2> oracology: That's easy The Peoples Linux that credits everyone then :)
[11:41] <oracology> davmor2: that has an awesome ring to it :)
[11:41] <gord> czajkowski, no plans to right now, maybe will feel more like it closer to the date if work is less hectic, its the weekend after feature freeze
[11:42] <oracology> it's actually an interesting point i guess, that GNU/Linux actually does miss the point just as much as "Linux" does. i hadn't realized that it is actually less GNU than other stuff, MartijnVdS, davmor2.
[11:43] <oracology> but enough of that. i'll go mull that over and learn something out of it :)
[11:43] <popey> this is why I say "Ubuntu" :D
[11:44] <davmor2> jussi: why run and hide from me, czajkowski I can understand ;)
[11:44] <jussi> davmor2: hehe, yes, but you are both scary peoples...
[11:44]  * jussi hides behind popey
[11:45] <oracology> popey: you're probably right, that is the closest we'll get...given that if it works on Ubuntu, you could probably make it work on Fedora, for instance.
[11:45] <davmor2> jussi: don't think that will protect you popey see us coming after you he'll soon move :D
[11:45] <oracology> what is up with jussi hiding from people, may I ask? :)
[11:46] <jussi> davmor2: see, popey is scared of you also?
[11:46] <jussi> :P
[11:46] <davmor2> jussi: hahaha
[11:46] <jussi> oracology: nothing, just friday afternoon stupidness and a reason to give out to davmor2 (like I need one)
[11:47] <oracology> jussi: hahaha, understood. i'm staying in today myself to read some stuff for monday...friday afternoon stupidness well on its way here too!
[11:48] <davmor2> jussi: czajkowski is head of the ubuntu Mafioso she is the DON! it's not surprising that popey would give you up, she appears everywhere well kinda like popey, maybe their in it together :D
[11:49] <popey> O_O
[11:49]  * oracology pours out some Pimms and lemonade to watch the fun.
[11:50]  * oracology is glad it's sunny and warm right now.
[11:50] <davmor2> Yay! Friday fun
[11:50] <oracology> that's what "ff" should stand for on those twitter/statusnet things.
[11:51] <MartijnVdS> oracology: I just assume they forgot the "s" in "ffs"
[11:51] <oracology> MartijnVdS: well said. :)
[11:52] <davmor2> So popey back to the 8 year olds,  you've installed Ubuntu, and heard nothing back and you think that is a bad thing, why?  The only things I could think of were that everything was fine they'll soon let you know if it isn't trust me
[11:52] <czajkowski> davmor2: I'm a lady and take part in no such things
[11:52] <popey> davmor2: some people don't like to bother their support person, especially when they got the support for free
[11:52] <popey> wifey will be seeing her tonight anyway, will ask her to check all is okay
[11:53] <daubers> popey: Pop round for a cuppa, take cake :) That always makes people talk
[11:53] <popey> hah
[11:53]  * daubers never understood why the gestapo didn't just bring tea and cake
[11:53] <davmor2> popey: I found the opposite they can't do something they are soon back around you put it on you sort it out :)
[11:53]  * popey goes into "town" for "lunch"
[11:54] <davmor2> czajkowski: See only the true DON would deny it, you must be the DON!
[11:55] <davmor2> using monty pythons life of brian as an example of the fact
[11:55] <davmor2> She not the DON! she's a very naughty girl! :D
[11:58] <MooDoo> davmor2, did czajkowski say lady then?
[11:58] <gord> s/town/pub s/lunch/?????
[11:58] <MooDoo> davmor2, put her in the iron maiden.....er #naughtystep
[11:59] <davmor2> MooDoo: yeah but we know that can't be right she swears in Irish too much to get away with that one
[12:01] <gord> "launchpad_net: Available in the next two hours to take part in a 25 minute phone call to help us test Launchpad? There's an Amazon voucher in it for you :)"
[12:01] <gord> if anyone has some free time ^^
[12:01] <MooDoo> Dave2, feck....:)
[12:01] <MooDoo> oops
[12:01] <oracology> gord: ah bollocks. not free :( tempting though!
[12:01] <MooDoo> davmor2, :)  i should use tab less
[12:02] <MooDoo> !language
[12:02] <MooDoo> :)
[12:17] <jussi> gord: I can!
[12:17] <jussi> gord: where and how?
[12:24]  * BigRedS just earned 400g of dairy milk :)
[12:25] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: .. wut?
[12:25] <BigRedS> Someone I share an office with keeps getting annoyed at me being messy. I've had a 'scorecard' and when I've been tidy for ten days I get chocolate :)
[12:26] <DJones> BigRedS: I thought you'd just done exercise for long enough to be able to eat 400g of dairy milk with it affecting weigth/calorie intake
[12:26] <BigRedS> excercise? Pfffft
[12:26] <DJones> my thoughts exactly
[12:26] <MartijnVdS> DJones: he's BIGcalm, niet SMALLcalm :)
[12:27] <BigRedS> I'm not calm at all! :)
[12:27] <DJones> I thought he was Red
[12:27] <BigRedS> I've never seen anyone get us that explicitly confused :)
[12:28] <gord> jussi, #launchpad i guess
[12:28] <gord> jussi, i got that from the launchpad_net twitter
[12:28] <jussi> gord: yeah... I figured it out after I asked...
[12:29] <jussi> replied to their twitter also.
[12:35] <davmor2> MooDoo: no use tab just look at the result before hitting send :D
[12:37] <MooDoo> davmor2, ssssh
[12:37] <davmor2> MooDoo: NO! :P
[12:40] <MooDoo> :p
[12:41] <oracology> MooDoo: what's "ssssh", "super secret secure shell"? ;)
[12:42] <MooDoo> oracology, that would be cool, but in this case it wase sssssshutup davmor2 you darn fool :)
[12:42] <davmor2> MooDoo: Who's the more foolish the fool or the fool who follows :P
[12:43] <MooDoo> davmor2, darn you and your forward thinking
[12:45] <davmor2> MooDoo: Reverse thinking actually all the way back to 1977 infact ;)
[12:46] <MooDoo> :)
[12:46] <MooDoo> davmor2, i've forgotten more than you'll ever know :)
[12:47] <MooDoo> so what's this ubuntu all about then?
[12:47] <davmor2> MooDoo: table tennis?
[12:47] <MooDoo> over the years i've come to regard davmor2 as someone i met :D
[12:47] <MooDoo> pah even though i haven't yet lol
[12:48] <oimon> is that from red dwarf?
[12:48] <MooDoo> yes i do believe so
[12:48] <oimon> the holo ship episode
[12:49] <popey> oimon: updated your planet feed
[12:50] <oimon> popey: thanks popey ..u mean my change 10 mins ago ? realised that wordpress was being naughty and i had to use atom instead :-\
[12:50] <davmor2> I used to love the way Kryton would enter lie mode out loud, "LIe mode! Of course we won't die it's perfectly safe no worries!"
[12:50] <oimon> aren't you supposed to be shopping in town?
[12:50] <popey> yes, thats the change I made oimon
[12:50] <popey> I have returned
[12:50] <oimon> you are on the ball today :D
[12:50] <popey> went nuts in pret
[12:51] <oimon> my wife says that toddler needs to get out of the house each day or he goes a bit nutty, unfortunately, rather than wlaking in the fields looking at nature, she goes shopping :(
[12:51] <oimon> i think thats why babies are so expensive
[12:51] <MooDoo> lol tell me about it, i've a new one on the way :)
[12:51] <davmor2> popey: what you mean you shook your hips, and said thank ya very much as you paid for your order?
[12:54] <davmor2> oimon: if it's a girl wait till she hits 13 yuo think she is expensive now :)
[12:55]  * MooDoo thinks please let my new one be a boy please let my new one be a boy please let my new one be a boy 
[12:55] <oimon> at this point i'm sort of hoping my next child is another boy so that we don't have to buy dollies and dresses
[12:56] <popey> Hah!
[12:57] <popey> I am glad I have one of each.
[12:57] <MooDoo> i'll get what i'm given, not long to find out
[12:57] <popey> When's it due?
[12:57] <MooDoo> 1st sept
[13:00] <popey> heh
[13:00] <oimon> i'm not even pregnant atm and i'm worrying about it
[13:01] <popey> One of mine is at Legoland with a friend of our family.
[13:01] <davmor2> ah a tune that conjures up the image of terri hatcher travelling down the stage on a big fan god bless tango and cash and yazoo don't go :)
[13:01] <popey> He's 4, and he has a massive crush on a 14 year old girl
[13:01] <oimon> on justin bieber?
[13:18] <Azelphur> Is there any way to tell screen to exit, killing the process inside it?
[13:18] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: <escape> k
[13:18] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: so Ctrl+A k
[13:19] <Azelphur> nah I need to do it from a bash script
[13:20] <popey> you can :D
[13:20] <Azelphur> how?
[13:21] <popey> you can "stuff" commands into screen
[13:21] <MartijnVdS> also, kill -9 :)
[13:21] <Azelphur> I know about stuff, but I didn't think that would apply to sending screen ctrl commands?
[13:22] <Azelphur> I'd also prefer not to parse the output of screen -r to get the pid to kill -9 it
[13:22] <Azelphur> that's a bet long winded, I'd just prefer to tell screen to sort it out by screen name
[13:22] <popey> you can send the control codes
[13:22] <popey> like escape
[13:22] <Azelphur> ah, cool
[13:23] <popey> screen -p 0 -S screenname -X eval 'stuff \015'
[13:23] <popey> that will send CTRL+M
[13:23] <popey> enter, basically
[13:24] <MartijnVdS> (M being the 15th letter of the alphabet)
[13:25] <Azelphur> ah, was wondering where the 15 came from
[13:26] <popey> uh
[13:26] <popey> no
[13:26] <popey> its 015 octal which is 13 decimal
[13:26] <MartijnVdS> the 015th letter
[13:26] <MartijnVdS> *
[13:26] <MartijnVdS> *phew* nice save
[13:28] <Azelphur> btw, been trying out lovefilms paid service, it doesn't even come anywhere near the quality or selection of torrents, and they want £30 a month for it :/
[13:28] <Azelphur> unimpressed \o/
[13:28] <MartijnVdS> what did you expect? :)
[13:29] <Azelphur> Ideally all the latest stuff available for 720p or higher streaming, at the very least keeping up with dvd release dates, but ideally having stuff on there as soon as or before it comes out in the cinema
[13:30] <BigRedS> before it comes out in the cinema?
[13:30] <BigRedS> that makes no sense
[13:30] <Azelphur> sure it does, I'm paying more than the Cinema goers
[13:30] <Azelphur> I should get to see it first if anyone is going to see it first.
[13:30] <BigRedS> you're only paying more than the cinema goers if you don't watch very much
[13:31] <Azelphur> *shrug* I'd like to see a person who spends more than £30 a month at the cinema, there really arn't going to be that many
[13:31] <BigRedS> or below some threshold, I've no idea how much that works out as
[13:31] <Azelphur> your talking top few percent for that kind of cash input
[13:32] <BigRedS> but still, teh cinema is always going to be where a film makes its debut
[13:32] <BigRedS> well, if it can get into any
[13:34] <daubers> "UUPC: The Movie Coming soon to a cinema near you!"
[13:34] <Azelphur> yay, pidgin excess flood bug is fun \o/
[13:34] <gord> Azelphur, erm, lovefilm don't even have a £30/month package, unlimited is £20
[13:34] <Azelphur> gord: oops, remembered the price wrong then :)
[13:34] <MartijnVdS> gord: tell that to the admin of his proxy ;)
[13:35] <gord> cheepest for unlimited streaming is £10 - i find that very reasonable personall
[13:35] <MartijnVdS> \o/ MitM
[13:35] <gord> i like that i can just sit down in the evening, watch some movie
[13:35] <Azelphur> I can do that anyway without lovefilm XD
[13:35] <Azelphur> only with a much much larger selection of all the latest stuff
[13:35] <gord> i choose not to pirate stuff thanks
[13:35] <Azelphur> *shrug*
[13:39] <shauno> hrm.  they still don't allow streaming packages to ireland.  mail almost made sense.  artificial borders suck.
[13:39]  * popey enjoys Virgin Media video on demand
[13:39] <gord> yeah they don't really do outside the UK
[13:39] <Azelphur> for £10/mo you can get a really nice usenet sub easily and stream all the latest stuff usually in 720p whenever you want and it's always keeping up with dvd releases if not even earlier than that >.<
[13:39]  * bigcalm does not enjoy Virgin Media's video on PC/mobile
[13:40] <gord> but their mail stuff is good if you like blu-rays like me, blu-rays are sooo expensive and some films i only want to watch once
[13:40] <Azelphur> I'd expect LoveFilm to do better than what already exists lol
[13:40]  * popey suggests Azelphur takes his piracy stuff elsewhere
[13:40] <Azelphur> *shrug* was just trying to point out that it wasn't very impressive
[13:41] <BigRedS> you need to use words like 'could' and 'hypothetically' :)
[13:41] <Azelphur> I do indeed
[13:42] <Azelphur> I'm just trying to say that a big company with loads of resources should be able to do better than a bunch of people with no resources and constantly on the run from the MAFIAA :p
[13:42] <BigRedS> Because LoveFilm don't need to appease the *IAA?
[13:42] <gord> you realise its not just lovefilm right? they have to deal with movie companies
[13:43] <Azelphur> yea I know it's not lovefilms fault, more the movie companies
[13:43] <shauno> nothing's really impressive if you set theft as your baseline.  £500 porsche? cheaper to steal 'em
[13:43] <shauno> (mandatory "you wouldn't download a car!")
[13:43] <BigRedS> It's not like LoveFilm torrent the films and then offer them for streaming; they have to pay whoever for the right to let people stream them
[13:43] <MartijnVdS> you wouldn't download a car!
[13:43] <Azelphur> shauno: http://questioncopyright.org/cm/images/piracy-is-not-theft.jpg
[13:43] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: indeed xD
[13:43] <BigRedS> Azelphur: point. missed.
[13:43] <BigRedS> I wondered whether you'd jump for that, though
[13:44] <Azelphur> yea, I get that they have to do deals, it just seems like they are all too busy fighting with eachother to make a decent service though
[13:44] <BigRedS> The point was that if you start from the presumption that you can do something fro free, it's never going to look attractive to buy it instead.
[13:45] <Azelphur> sure it is, if LoveFilm had feature parity with even torrents, I'd pay for it
[13:46] <shauno> it's a different argument, but piracy is theft. closer to theft of service than physical stealing, but claiming otherwise is a weak justification, not a valid argument
[13:47] <BigRedS> No it isn't. It completely, unequivocally, is not theft.
[13:47] <BigRedS> It might share effects, but that doesn't render it the same
[13:47] <Azelphur> According to Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, theft means The act of stealing; specifically, the felonious taking and removing of personal property, with an intent to deprive the rightful owner of the same
[13:47] <Azelphur> theft, it is not.
[13:47] <shauno> because nothing's actually removed from the original holder?
[13:47] <shauno> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_of_services
[13:48] <BigRedS> but it's not a service either
[13:48] <shauno> which is why I say "much closer to"
[13:48] <BigRedS> theft of services still involves a loss (of time)
[13:48] <Azelphur> indeed
[13:48] <shauno> services doesn't need to mean time
[13:48] <BigRedS> copying soemthing doesn't. It's a breach of copyright - the only loss is because of some invented abstraction
[13:49] <Azelphur> ^
[13:49] <shauno> eg, ilegitmate cable/satellite access will stand in court as theft of service, while absolutely nothing was removed from anyone
[13:49] <Azelphur> the vast majority of piracy now days is done by people who couldn't actually pay for what they want to watch even if they want to, anyway.
[13:49] <BigRedS> shauno: extra capacity was used
[13:49] <Azelphur> and in fact, surveys done by the media companies themselves prove that pirates actually pour more money into the industry than any other demographic
[13:50] <shauno> I stole valuable radio waves, depriving my neighbour of the waves they paid for?
[13:50] <oimon> cineworld have an unlimited pass that lets you go for £15 pm
[13:50] <BigRedS> shauno: ok, satellite's hard to argue there
[13:51] <bigcalm> Considering that it cost 11 quid to go and see HP, 15 quid a month isn't that bad
[13:51] <shauno> cable's the same.  it's just RF down a different medium
[13:51] <oimon> bigcalm: maybe it's only 2D though
[13:51] <bigcalm> Ah
[13:51] <Azelphur> oimon: do they stream?
[13:51] <BigRedS> mm, I suppose anything that's purely reception is
[13:51] <oimon> my missis wanted to see the 2D HP but it wasnt' advertised?
[13:51] <bigcalm> I did feel a little robbed when the lass said the total was £22
[13:51] <Azelphur> or do I have to go to the archaic building from the days when we could only afford one TV per town
[13:51] <oimon> Azelphur: they stream onto the screen. you go to the cinema and watch it :)
[13:52] <Azelphur> yay \o/
[13:52] <oimon> popcorn and a drink costs £7.50
[13:52] <Azelphur> lmao
[13:52] <bigcalm> It were all fields around here when I were a lad
[13:52] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: did they go uphill both ways?
[13:52] <oimon> what happens is the people with the unlimited cards come along and then spend another £15 per visit on munchies
[13:52] <shauno> BigRedS, that's pretty much the trap I fall into with 'not theft' then.  torrenting is essentially "purely reception".  no-one's deprived of anything.  you just .. magically acquire
[13:54] <BigRedS> shauno: well, it's broadly similar to torrenting in most respects; I'd find it hard to argue that it's a theft of service rather than infringement of copyright, but IANAL. The loss is the loss of a potential [customer|purchase] rather than the loss of somethign already held
[13:54] <Azelphur> *shrug* it's very weak logic to try and portray piracy as stealing or immoral though
[13:54] <BigRedS> It's easy to portray it as immoral
[13:55] <Azelphur> as I say, pirates spend far more (I believe it's about 5 times as much) on media than other groups
[13:55] <BigRedS> it's not that hard to portray it as stealing, either
[13:55] <bigcalm> I'm not sure this is the best place to be discussing piracy
[13:55] <Azelphur> spending 5 times as much as everyone else, now immoral and stealing :D
[13:55] <ali1234> it's not hard to portray anything as anything
[13:55] <ali1234> all yuo need is some crayons
[13:55] <BigRedS> Azelphur: you're doing exactly what the media industry did, but the other way. They only listen to 'piracy is bad' reports, and you only listen to 'piracy is good' reports
[13:55] <Azelphur> ali1234: good point xD
[13:55] <Azelphur> BigRedS: that's because there arn't any piracy is bad reports that actually make sense
[13:56] <Azelphur> because at large piracy is a good thing
[13:56] <Azelphur> it's like the biggest advertising network on the planet, the media companies try and fight it and loose, certain little people realize it's potential and get rich quick
[13:57] <gord> this entire conversation has fallen into a deep despairing pit of dumb, alas there is no return, watch out for grue's
[13:57] <oimon> let's draw a line under it
[13:57] <oimon> [13:57] <ali1234> piracy cured my chronic rhinitis
[13:57] <BigRedS> that's two lines!
[13:57] <gord> so, cats are pretty cool, you guys seen those?
[13:57] <BigRedS> cats are awesome
[13:57] <BigRedS> uneccesary cats less so
[13:58] <Azelphur> call me dumb all you want, I'm right :P http://torrentfreak.com/best-selling-author-turns-piracy-into-profit-080512/
[13:58] <Azelphur> one example :)
[13:58] <gord> Azelphur, we are talking about cats now
[13:59] <ali1234> speaking of "pit of dumb"
[13:59] <popey> unity?
[13:59] <shauno> my main problem with defending piracy, is that there's a *lot* about our wild wild webs that legitimately requires defending.  the public domain is getting eaten away by ever-expanding copyright terms
[13:59] <ali1234> i just witnessed a website that lets you log in as anyone you like as long as you know their username. all you have to do is put it in a cookie and you are them
[13:59] <popey> nice
[13:59] <BigRedS> haha
[13:59] <popey> is it abbey.com ?
[13:59] <BigRedS> that sounds like 1997
[13:59] <BigRedS> oh man
[14:00] <BigRedS> the abbey national have really irritated me with their latest 'security' bits
[14:00] <Azelphur> ali1234: haha
[14:00] <davmor2> oimon: technically that was two lines you fail man!
[14:00] <BigRedS> They're effectively shifting half the point of SSL over to the responsibility of the user
[14:00] <Azelphur> ali1234: yesterday I found a website that sends all details about a transaction in postdata (amount, etc)
[14:01] <davmor2> meh BigRedS beat me to it as I continue to read
[14:01] <oimon> [14:01] <oimon> ________________________________________________________________
[14:01] <oimon> thats better, now , lovely weather lately
[14:01] <Azelphur> shauno: indeed, that stuff needs to be protected more now than ever, I'm starting to see movies coming to torrents (legally) first, which is awesome :D
[14:01] <Azelphur> the yes men was a pretty cool movie, for example
[14:01] <BigRedS> argh! so many lines!
[14:02] <BigRedS> anyway, in summary, I like cats but not the abbey national.
[14:02] <oimon> today has been asolutely mental
[14:02] <oimon> i have to shutdown all servers and desktops in the building
[14:03] <oimon> but 3 of my staff are off
[14:03] <Azelphur> BigRedS: abbey national tried to steal my money once :(
[14:04] <Azelphur> "I'd like to deposit some money" "Sure no problem", "I'd like to withdraw the money I deposited" "Wait who are you and what have you done with Azelphur /lockdown account for 6 months"
[14:04] <Azelphur> \o/
[14:04] <BigRedS> hah
[14:04] <davmor2> the conversation is moot as the abbey is no more it's now santander
[14:04] <oimon> i have an old N&P account that became something else then becamse abbey, now satander
[14:05] <Azelphur> davmor2: abbey was always santander I think? wasn't abbey just the UK brand name for them?
[14:05] <diplo-> Anyone know where to get free to use icons ? Need PDF/CSV/Print or a base to use for said images..
[14:05] <oimon> nope, satander bought thm
[14:05] <BigRedS> only for the last year or so
[14:05] <Azelphur> yea, satander bought my bank too :(
[14:05] <Azelphur> satander buying everything.
[14:05] <oimon> sold out to satan
[14:05] <Azelphur> indeed
[14:06] <davmor2> santander bought most of the banks to be honest including the a&l an b&b and a couple of others which include that postoffice banking services
[14:06] <Azelphur> yea, I was with A&L
[14:07] <davmor2> which means almost all bank transaction payments are handled by them (ie payment slips on the bottom of bills, paypoints, payzones etc)
[14:08] <oimon> my wife wants me to change from halifax because of the adverts
[14:08] <BigRedS> I'm trying to find a genuinely all-online bank
[14:09] <Azelphur> she doesn't like the musical halifax adverts?
[14:09] <BigRedS> but there don't appear to be any
[14:09] <Azelphur> BigRedS: I'm looking at smile.co.uk, does that fit the bill?
[14:09] <BigRedS> Azelphur: I emailed them asking if card replacement was able to be done online or over the phone and they emailed back with a number for me to call and ask...
[14:09] <Azelphur> rofl
[14:09] <BigRedS> I emailed them again and they said no. But that does appear to be the one service of theirs that requires a phone.
[14:10] <BigRedS> only problem is that every time I've lost a card in teh last 10 years or so I've been abroad, and I don't want to phone them, I want to click a button in the web UI.
[14:10] <BigRedS> I still don't understand why they insist on only doing it over the phone
[14:11] <davmor2> BigRedS: ing and first direct are about as close as you are likely to get
[14:13] <Azelphur> BigRedS: it's even more funny that they insist on doing it over the phone because it's abused by nefarious people
[14:13] <Azelphur> if it was behind a web panel with a sane user/pass, it'd be infinitely more secure
[14:20] <BigRedS> davmor2: aha! cheers! Are ING only savings, or are they a normal bank, too?
[14:21] <BigRedS> Azelphur: yeah, I did eventually get Abbey to say "sorry, yes, the security bit was a lie. It's just that our system can't do it"
[14:21] <davmor2> bigcalm: both as I understand it
[14:21] <Azelphur> lol
[14:21] <BigRedS> haha :)
[14:21] <BigRedS> I should really tell irrssi to highligh bigcalm's messages too :)
[14:21] <bigcalm> davmor2: ?
[14:21] <bigcalm> Gah
[14:22] <BigRedS> but cheers! I'll investigate them this weekend
[14:22] <gord> pretty sure BigRedS and bigcalm are the same person. like DJones  and JGJones_
[14:22] <bigcalm> o.O
[14:23] <davmor2> bigcalm: sorry doing my best to make MooDoo feel like he isn't the only one not capable of reading a name after hitting tab :)
[14:23] <BigRedS> I'm a bit sure we're not. But I've never seen bigcalm and me in the same room at the same time
[14:23] <bigcalm> Heh, no worries :)
[14:23] <MooDoo> davmor2, don't worry we all know your name is bill :)
[14:23] <bigcalm> BigRedS: did you go to oggcamp last year?
[14:23] <Azelphur> BigRedS: lemme know if you decide to go with anything :)
[14:23] <davmor2> MooDoo: what's that fred
[14:24] <MooDoo> :)
[14:27] <bigcalm> SQL question: 2 tables, Bookings and Users. Bookings.user_id points to Users.id. How might I select Bookings records that have deleted Users records?
[14:27] <BigRedS> bigcalm: nope
[14:27] <voidspace> I have the following in /var/log/boot.log
[14:27] <voidspace>  * Starting automatic crash report generation                                  [fail]
[14:27] <bigcalm> Nope?
[14:28] <BigRedS> I didn't go to oggcamp last year
[14:28] <bigcalm> Ah
[14:28] <voidspace> where should I look for more info on what failed and why?
[14:28] <bigcalm> Then we could be the same person
[14:28] <BigRedS> aha! Are you going this year?
[14:28] <BigRedS> voidspace: around that line in boot.log might be clues... pastebin the file (or a snippet) and we can have a look
[14:29] <voidspace> BigRedS: ah.. maybe this? init: ureadahead-other main process (410) terminated with status 4
[14:29] <bigcalm> BigRedS: from Friday to Monday. Taking time off work so we can relax
[14:29] <voidspace> BigRedS: I can pastebin the whole file
[14:29] <BigRedS> bigcalm: Ah, we'll have to diverge on the saturday, then, and become two people
[14:30] <voidspace> BigRedS: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/444286/
[14:30] <bigcalm> How will the tab-fail people cope? :P
[14:30] <BigRedS> voidspace: ah, probably. I'm not sure where to go for detals as to what ureadahead-other was doing at the time, though
[14:30] <BigRedS> haha
[14:32] <BigRedS> voidspace: allegedly exiting with status 4 might not be a bad thing
[14:32] <voidspace> BigRedS: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ureadahead/+bug/484677
[14:32] <bigcalm> Aha, I love answering my own SQL questions: SELECT * FROM bookings LEFT JOIN users ON bookings.user_id = users.id WHERE is_active IS NULL;
[14:32] <BigRedS> bigcalm: well, it's more productive than answering other people's...
[14:33] <BigRedS> voidspace: yeah, that's probably not a problem, then
[14:33] <voidspace> hmmm
[14:33] <voidspace> googling
[14:33] <Apacheuk> bigcalm: select * from bookings b where not exists (select 1 from users u where u.user_id = b.user_id)
[14:33] <voidspace> I assumed you guys would know *everything*
[14:34] <BigRedS> voidspace: does it carry on to boot eventually?
[14:34] <BigRedS> voidspace: most people here know more than I do
[14:34] <voidspace> BigRedS: it boots fine
[14:34] <BigRedS> voidspace: but because of that they spend a lot of the day doing real work :)
[14:34] <voidspace> BigRedS: I just don't like to see a fail on boot
[14:34] <davmor2> voidspace: have you tried in /var/crash ?
[14:35] <BigRedS> odd that it appears to feel the need to create a crash report
[14:35] <voidspace> davmor2: empty
[14:35] <voidspace> bug report for this failure
[14:35] <voidspace> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/778587
[14:36] <davmor2> BigRedS: it was on the off chance that it crashed
[14:37] <BigRedS> davmor2: ah, so it tries to file a report and, if it finds nothing's crashed it finds it can't create one?
[14:42] <davmor2> BigRedS: No /var/crash grabs what it can of a crash then adds to it before sending the report to LP via apport/ubuntu-bug
[14:42] <davmor2> aiui
[14:55] <JGJones_> gord - DJones' just my clone.
[14:58] <HazRPG> I've noticed since I switched from Rhythmbox to Banshee on my 10.10, that my sound doesn't suddenly go tinny any more randomly
[14:59] <HazRPG> something that use to bug me no end
[15:00] <HazRPG> even if rhythmbox wasn't playing music... it was weird
[15:43] <shauno> I swear trainees will be the death of me
[15:51]  * BigRedS aims to never be competent enough to get a trainee
[16:31] <Azelphur> uhh
[16:32] <Azelphur> so following the example on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/rsync
[16:32] <Azelphur> where it tells you how to backup over a network
[16:32] <Azelphur> and it just deleted the data I was trying to backup
[16:32] <Azelphur> any way I can get that stuff back?
[16:34] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: are you  sure it deleted it?
[16:34] <Azelphur> rsync spammed "deleting <file>" and the files arn't there any more
[16:35] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: if it's ext4, recovery will probably be impossible
[16:35] <Azelphur> the backup over network command is clearly a troll
[16:35] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: use --dry-run next time -- it tells you what it WILL do
[16:35] <MartijnVdS> then remove --dry-run after you've convinced yourself it's good
[16:35] <MartijnVdS> also, let's fix the troll (Sorry about your data)
[16:35] <Azelphur> heh, the documentation doesn't say that
[16:35] <Azelphur> yea :p
[16:36] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it's almost right..
[16:36] <Azelphur> yea it's ext4, what do I do? :)
[16:37] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: turn off the machine now, then check this page: http://extundelete.sourceforge.net/
[16:37] <MartijnVdS> maybe not turn it off
[16:37] <MartijnVdS> stop touching it anyway
[16:37] <Azelphur> yea I havn't touched it
[16:37] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: check that page
[16:37] <Azelphur> reading
[16:37] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it has a HOWTO
[16:38] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: also.. the "remote backup" rsync command seems OK.. there's just a line break in the middle because it's too long (and it wraps)
[16:38] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: maybe that's what went wrong?
[16:40] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I've added the --dry-run note
[16:40] <Azelphur> nope, it wouldn't have got access to the remote machine to backup at all if I hadn't reached the end?
[16:40] <BigRedS> popey: front page of oggcamp.org is missing a closing bracket at "(though, this year, we also have a scheduled track"
[16:40] <popey> what exact command did you run?
[16:40] <popey> paste it?
[16:41] <Azelphur> rsync --delete -azvv -e ssh . lorna@192.168.1.135:/home
[16:41] <popey> and what was in . at the time?
[16:41] <popey> the current directory
[16:41] <Azelphur> nothing, it was an empty folder with which to put the backup in
[16:41] <popey> well that was silly
[16:41] <MartijnVdS> "deleting" means it's deleting on the remote end
[16:42] <popey> it did exactly what you told it to do
[16:42] <Azelphur> indeed
[16:42] <MartijnVdS> rsync --delete doesn't delete on the local end
[16:42] <Azelphur> unclear documentation is unclear :(
[16:42] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: is it better now I've changed it a bit?
[16:43] <Azelphur> yea cool :)
[16:43] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[16:43] <popey> BigRedS: fixed
[16:43] <BigRedS> whoop!
[16:43] <Azelphur> livecding now, I've got slightly old backups of most things
[16:43]  * BigRedS has no more parse errors
[16:43] <BigRedS> cheers :)
[16:44] <popey> no, thank _you_
[16:44] <MartijnVdS> thank ALL Y'ALL
[16:49] <mgdm> Note to self: "Move to workspace right" does not mean "move to the monitor on the right"...
[16:50] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: it's Friday, you're tired, we understand
[16:51] <mgdm> it's good to know people do :)
[17:14] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Preparing for Approval and Re-Approval. Dos and Donts - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/07/22/preparing-for-approval-and-re-approval-dos-and-donts/
[18:14] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] The Art of Community: Second Edition Confirmed - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/07/22/the-art-of-community-second-edition-confirmed/
[18:33] <ali1234> popey: do you think "EaseUS" is a deliberate pun on the spanish pronunciation of Jesus? (as in, it brings your files back from the dead)
[18:34] <popey> heh
[18:35] <xapel> where can I get logs of conversations in a freenode channel?
[18:36] <czajkowski> xapel: depends which channel you're looking for
[18:37] <xapel> czajkowski: ubuntu-classroom
[18:38] <czajkowski> xapel: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/22/
[18:38] <czajkowski> link of channels for todays logs
[18:40] <xapel> czajkowski: thanks!
[18:41] <czajkowski> np
[18:41] <czajkowski> xapel: if you go /topic in here you see the link to the logs for ubuntu channels
[18:44] <davmor2> does anyone have an ati hd 4350 gfx card how does it run under Ubuntu please
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> just plug it in
[18:46] <MartijnVdS> as long as you don't have a xorg.conf (i.e. default settings) it should work out of the box
[18:47] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: Yeah I know that I'm asking how it performs ;)  I need a fairly cheap decent gfx card that will out perform the crappy one on my motherboard :)
[18:48] <ali1234> get nvidia
[18:49] <MartijnVdS> never get nvidia
[18:49] <davmor2> ali1234: there is nvidia in it that's what I'm trying to get away from for a change nvidia's binary driver has gone down hill latey
[18:49] <MartijnVdS> ati's free drivers are getting a lot better, and actually have both 2d and 3d performance
[18:51] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: thanks
[18:51] <ali1234> ati's drivers still can't even do 2d without corrupting the display, free or nonfree, it doesn't matter
[18:51] <MartijnVdS> ati's non-free driver doesn't have 2d performance, but 3D is good, but it has the same problem as the nvidia driver: it's crappy non-free software that's prone to break at the slightest kernel upgrade
[18:52]  * MartijnVdS switched to all-intel
[18:53] <gord> still better than sandybridge ;)
[18:58]  * MartijnVdS waits for ivy bridge
[19:14] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: so I'm trying to run extundelete, I sshfs mounted my PC and am trying to restore the files into that directory
[19:14] <Azelphur> but it's saying stat: RECOVERED_FILES/ permission denied
[19:14] <Azelphur> but the folder is 777 and I can create and remove files and folders in that directory.
[19:14] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I don't know, I've never used it
[19:14] <Azelphur> oh, unless I'm root
[19:15] <Azelphur> root can't create the files, but a standard user can
[19:15] <Azelphur> \o/
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> did you mount the sshfs as standard user?
[19:15] <Azelphur> nope
[19:16] <Azelphur> oh wait, yea I did
[19:16] <Azelphur> I guess that's the problem :)
[19:16] <MartijnVdS> there's your problem ;)
[19:16] <MartijnVdS> fuse is weird like that
[19:16]  * brobostigon gets mumble ready for tommorow nights meeting.
[19:16]  * MartijnVdS can't attend tomorrow's meeting (maybe on irc) -- data roaming ain't cheap
[19:17] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: dont you have unlimited data plans ?
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: yes, but not when abroad
[19:17] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, i see.
[19:17] <mgdm> long shot, but anyone here going to FrosCon (in Germany, end of next month?)
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> (also, not anymore by the end of the year, all mobile phone providers announced price increases for data this week)
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I'll be taking the Eurostar to London tomorrow :)
[19:18] <brobostigon> i thought, for roaming, all over europe, the prices are meant to become fairer. ?
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> sure
[19:19] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah. :)
[19:19] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: with my provider three, it is more or less the same cost roaming, as it is here locally.
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> but it's still "€2 for 35M/day, €a_lot for each MB after that"
[19:20] <brobostigon> ouch.
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> €0,30/MB
[19:20] <brobostigon> agreed.
[19:21] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: where abouts are you? XD
[19:21] <Azelphur> haha 35MB/day
[19:22] <jacobw> London apparently.
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: that's only while roaming -- I have unlimited internet for €7 here in the Netherlands
[19:22] <Azelphur> time to switch to a provider that doesn't suck
[19:22] <brobostigon> 19:18:28 < MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I'll be taking the Eurostar to London tomorrow :)
[19:22] <Azelphur> oh, while roaming
[19:23] <Azelphur> you can get unlimited for £10 here if you want it
[19:23] <Azelphur> for a month
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Only in the UK, or roaming?
[19:23] <Azelphur> only in the UK
[19:23] <Azelphur> I think
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> Yes, I have that for €7 :)
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> Vodafone \o/
[19:24] <Azelphur> fun
[19:24] <mgdm> I have 500MB on my contract, but as I spend most of my time in range of wifi, I don't use all of that
[19:25] <Azelphur> I turn wifi off on my phone just because there's no need to use it
[19:25] <Azelphur> don't have to signal hop and the hsdpa speeds are perfectly acceptable for anything you'd want to do on a phone
[19:26] <MartijnVdS> I hope my hotel has proper wifi
[19:26] <mgdm> I found that if I turned wifi off on my phone, my battery life *decreased*
[19:26] <brobostigon> also, on my phone, wifi seems to use more power, that using hsdpa.
[19:26] <Azelphur> mgdm: that reminds me of the time when I turned compiz effects on and my computer got faster.
[19:26] <mgdm> it ended up doing everything over slower, higher power, phone network
[19:26] <mgdm> heh
[19:26] <Azelphur> (documentable and reproducable, I think I even uploaded it to youtube)
[19:26] <ali1234> 3G is notorious for using lots of power
[19:26] <bigcalm> mgdm: While wifi is on, it won't look for a 3g data signal. Seems a little arse backwards
[19:26] <mgdm> I can believe it
[19:26] <mgdm> bigcalm: aye
[19:27] <MartijnVdS> Works very well on my AP -- which has a special "support low-power devices" flag
[19:27] <Azelphur> yea, there we go http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSjkTOLCMA4
[19:27] <MartijnVdS> it increases the beacon time, or something
[19:27] <Azelphur> no fire: horrible ugly choppyness, put a drop of fire down, suddenly smoothness
[19:27] <mgdm> I have a panel on the phone that has wifi, bluetooth, and GPS controls
[19:27] <mgdm> the only one that's ever off is BT, as I barely use it
[19:27] <bigcalm> The default setting in CyanogenMod is for wifi to go to sleep when the screen is off. That reduces the battery from 2 days to about 8-15 hours
[19:27] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: same for stock
[19:27] <bigcalm> Really?
[19:27] <bigcalm> Not on sense ui
[19:27] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it is on my N11
[19:28] <brobostigon> hsdpa here, on my htc dream, with android 2.3.4, uses less power while turned on, than having wifi turned on.
[19:28] <MartijnVdS> uh
[19:28] <MartijnVdS> N1
[19:28] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: get a better access point -- or increase the beacon interval manually ;)
[19:28] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: Ah, I put CyanogenMod onto my N1 not long after getting it, so couldn't remember
[19:28] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i will look at those, interesting. thank you.
[19:29] <Azelphur> i just went out and bought a fun 3.5kmAh battery for my phone.
[19:29] <Azelphur> fixed(tm)
[19:29] <mgdm> I think the phone uses more instantaneous power when wifi is on, but gets work done faster, so it can go back to sleep again quicker (same reason as clocking a CPU core down is not actually the best way to save power)
[19:29] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://wi-figurus.com/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=183
[19:29] <mgdm> better to go to full power quickly and then back to sleep than go to medium power for longer
[19:29] <Azelphur> I even overclocked to 1.7ghz, battery life is still fine :D
[19:31] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: interesting.
[19:33] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: was set at 200 msec, i have now set it to 100 msec.
[19:33] <brobostigon> 1000*
[19:37] <AlanBell> evening all
[19:38] <brobostigon> evening AlanBell
[19:38] <jacobw> o/
[19:38]  * AlanBell needs to do some blogs and emails
[19:39]  * brobostigon had a productive day, he reinstalled android on his mobile.
[19:40] <jacobw> sounds productive :p
[19:40] <brobostigon> also i played a dartboard, for my doctor to take blood from.
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> "180!"
[20:27] <jacobw> i think i may be addicted to olives
[20:28] <jacobw> i mean, i have to plan which stores to buy from so i don't look strange buying them too often from the same place :|
[20:28] <hamitron> :D
[20:28] <hamitron> not my sorta thing
[20:32] <shauno> jacobw: embrace it.  look weird.  it's easier, and more entertaining :)
[20:32] <shauno> buy them with a smile on your face.  make people worry.
[20:38] <jacobw> haha
[20:48] <shauno> thinking about it, that's how I handle most awkward shopping.  tesco involves female hygiene products?  giant, less than sane grin. take control of the situation :)
[20:50] <ali1234> hmm that's interesting
[20:50] <hamitron> "these work wonders in teh garage"
[20:51] <hamitron> ;/
[20:51] <jacobw> lol
[20:51] <AlanBell> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-YNRhFBousw8/TilZsKnQZRI/AAAAAAAAAa0/_gPQpi-ZKlw/h301/2011-07-22%2B11.56.28.jpg meetup location for Sunday
[20:51]  * jacobw is watching Sherlock
[20:52] <hamitron> I've just been watching disk defragmentor
[20:52] <jacobw> party at your house ;)
[20:52] <hamitron> tired me out, tell ya ;)
[20:52] <ali1234> i just plugged an old memory card into my android phone with google+ app and it auto uploaded all the old photos on it
[20:53] <ali1234> so it doesn't just auto upload new photos
[20:53] <jacobw> oops
[20:53] <hamitron> but all those old dirty pictures of your ex?
[20:53] <hamitron> ;/
[20:53] <ali1234> well luckily it doesn't auto share them, it just uploads them
[20:53]  * hamitron looks at clock
[20:54] <ali1234> but sadly nothing so interesting
[20:54] <hamitron> maybe too early for such joking
[20:54] <hamitron> :D
[20:54] <ali1234> it's just the one and only photo i took with the old phone, in order to test the camera
[20:54] <hamitron> :/
[20:54] <ali1234> that was the only picture i ever took with that phone
[20:54] <hamitron> oh well
[20:54] <hamitron> just shows how useful camera on the phone are
[20:54] <hamitron> ;)
[20:54] <ali1234> well the phone was kind of crap so i never really used it
[20:55] <hamitron> ah
[20:55] <ali1234> and then i put the card in a different phone that didn't save to external memory card
[20:55] <ali1234> it was a 5800
[20:55] <hamitron> I'm tempted with the 5800
[20:55] <ali1234> then i got a C7 instead
[20:55] <hamitron> :/
[20:55] <ali1234> 5800 is rubbish, do not buy
[20:55] <hamitron> heard it is a little slow
[20:55] <ali1234> get a C6 or a C7
[20:56] <ali1234> C6-01 is pretty much the direct replacement for 5800
[20:56] <hamitron> they are symbian?
[20:56] <ali1234> yeah they are all symbian
[20:56] <hamitron> symbian was "open" for a while
[20:56] <hamitron> is there any group online making a firmware?
[20:56] <ali1234> no
[20:56] <ali1234> the phones are locked
[20:56] <hamitron> :/
[20:56] <ali1234> and nokia actually knows how tomake a secure bootloader
[20:57] <ali1234> so you have to solder wires to the circuit board if you want to reflash
[20:57] <ali1234> not that there is any point
[20:57] <hamitron> I'd be happy with that tbh
[20:57] <hamitron> :)
[20:57] <ali1234> i mean symbian just works
[20:57] <hamitron> true
[20:57] <ali1234> there's no need to reflash it
[20:57] <hamitron> but it is just the idea of using the source
[20:57] <hamitron> ;)
[20:58] <hamitron> I sure wish I could customise my ngagfe firmware
[20:58] <hamitron> allow reseting of it, to recover from the white screen of death
[20:58] <hamitron> :/
[20:59] <hamitron> real shame meego never took off
[21:00] <hamitron> or was it Meamo
[21:00] <hamitron> or something
[21:00] <hamitron> :/
[21:00] <brobostigon> both.
[21:00] <hamitron> I get confused
[21:00] <hamitron> :D
[21:01] <ali1234> meego device isn't even available yet
[21:01] <ali1234> if you want to wind some people up go to #meego and ask them when you'll be able to buy a meego phone. they REALLY hate that
[21:01] <hamitron> I'm actually tempted to get a WP7 phone
[21:02] <hamitron> I will certainly look into it, if I ever go get a phone
[21:02] <andylockran> hey guys - I could do with some web advice. I can't port a site to a CMS due to time constraints, so I'm going to create a 'front page' for the site instead.
[21:03] <andylockran> It'll display the latest news (rss feed), a couple of twitter feeds, next match info and a link through to the main site.
[21:03] <andylockran> I'm thinking of doing it in pure php - but any other ideas?
[21:04] <ali1234> do it entirely in javascript?
[21:05] <andylockran> ali1234: well I was thinking php + jquery
[21:05] <ali1234> you don't need any php for that
[21:06] <hamitron> was tempted to ask if that could be done, to reduce load on the server.. but didn't wanna show my newbness :/
[21:10] <gord> honestly sounds like it would be easier in pure javascript andylockran, just because someone will have nice api's toget twitter feeds and rss feeds
[21:14] <Laney> wait
[21:14] <Laney> lion has overlay scrollbars?!
[21:15] <andylockran> gord: ok, will do
[21:25] <jacobw> does it Laney ?
[21:25] <jacobw> the madness is spreading ..
[21:27] <Laney> apparently
[21:35] <popey> yes
[21:36] <popey> it has other very natty changes
[21:36] <popey> like the network icon and power icon on the logon screen
[21:36] <ali1234> did they move the buttons over to the right?
[21:37] <Laney> didn't ubuntu have that window resizing thing too?
[21:37] <Laney> http://static.arstechnica.net/2011/07/04/lion/window-resizing-11A511.png
[21:37] <gord> yeah but ours is better than that
[21:37] <ali1234> what, the ability to resize a window from any edge?
[21:38] <ali1234> they finally added that to mac os?!?!?
[21:38] <ali1234> wow
[21:38] <ali1234> amazing
[21:39] <ali1234> how much is lion going to cost?
[21:39] <ali1234> $29.99
[21:40] <ali1234> bit much just to see if it's no longer completely infuriating
[21:41] <gord> i'm guessing you can demo it at a macstore
[21:41] <gord> apple store
[21:42] <popey> ali1234: 21 quid
[21:43] <popey> I upgraded my mbp and my imac
[21:43] <popey> but really only the mbp gets the benefit
[21:43] <popey> the imac doesnt have "magic" touchpad
[22:28] <andylockran> cheers for the tip on javascript
[22:28] <andylockran> reckon I'm a fair bit of the way through
[22:28] <andylockran> how are you popey
[22:38] <popey> howdy howdy howdy andylockran
[22:47] <andylockran> :)
[22:51] <gord> upload has nerfed down to 0.2mbit, dns requests are taking forever... i need a new router =\
[22:53] <frnasani_attotec> hello
[22:54] <AlanBell> hi
[22:54] <frnasani_attotec> hi alen
[22:56] <andylockran> hi
[22:59] <andylockran> how's things
[22:59] <andylockran> AlanBell: it's weird.  didn't think you could get such a countryside looking place so close to Tower Bridge..
[22:59] <andylockran> where were you at?
[22:59] <AlanBell> yeah, nice angle isn't it
[22:59] <andylockran> brilliant angle
[23:00] <andylockran> gf is currently working @ Alzheimer's Society on St Katharine's Docks (right next to tower bridge)
[23:00] <andylockran> absolutely gorgeous part of London
[23:00] <AlanBell> that is where I was going
[23:00] <andylockran> Alzheimers?
[23:00] <AlanBell> (um, not to your gf you understand)
[23:00] <andylockran> or just St Ks?
[23:00] <AlanBell> St ks
[23:00] <AlanBell> that is where fossbox is
[23:01]  * andylockran goes to google fossbox
[23:03] <AlanBell> https://bitly.com/
[23:03] <AlanBell> http://bit.ly/pvda49 even
[23:05] <StevenR> AlanBell: when's the approval app due? (or has the deadline passed?) Been out of the world for a week
[23:05] <AlanBell> due any time this cycle really
[23:06] <AlanBell> http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/07/22/preparing-for-approval-and-re-approval-dos-and-donts/
[23:07] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ReApprovalApplication2011 we need to add dates to everything and photos and get stuff in order
[23:07] <andylockran> ONhttp://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3708306/Hospital-tells-families-Visit-sick-relatives-on-Skype.html
[23:07] <andylockran> can you believe that ^
[23:11] <AlanBell> junk story
[23:11] <popey> +1
[23:12] <hamitron> the sun is a quality source of information ;/
[23:12] <andylockran> in the sun??
[23:12] <AlanBell> it is spun to make it sound bad
[23:12] <StevenR> hamitron: you mis-spelled "misinformation"
[23:12] <StevenR> :P
[23:12] <hamitron> a lot of the media is doing that loads recently :/
[23:12] <hamitron> StevenR: :D
[23:13] <hamitron> I reckon suicide rates would go up, if everyone just read the headlines and stuff
[23:13] <AlanBell> hospital investigates adding webcams to the spec of their bedside multifunctional screen things, hey, this means we can let patients skype relatives, won't that be awesome . . .
[23:13] <hamitron> :/
[23:13] <AlanBell> press gets hold of story, spins it until it sounds evil enough, then prints it
[23:13] <hamitron> AlanBell: how much will they charge? ;)
[23:14] <hamitron> is the big question
[23:14] <AlanBell> loads, which is fine by me
[23:15] <StevenR> AlanBell: good. I started to re-write the first paragraph to make it clearer, but never got chance to fit it in with all the links and stuff
[23:16] <AlanBell> StevenR: great, I really appreciate the help
[23:16] <StevenR> (this week has vanished for various unavoidable reasons, and things will probably continue this way for a bit unfortunately)
[23:17]  * hamitron punches Azelphur
[23:17] <hamitron> ;)
[23:17] <StevenR> AlanBell: when's the end of this cycle ?
[23:17]  * Azelphur punches pidgin
[23:17] <popey> !oneiric
[23:18] <popey> some time in october
[23:18] <StevenR> cool.
[23:18] <hamitron> !11.10
[23:18] <hamitron> yey
[23:18] <hamitron> I'm no good with names ;)
[23:18] <AlanBell> October 13th
[23:19] <StevenR> I'm not much use content-wise (fairly new to this community), but I'm obsessive over correct grammar and spelling. :)
[23:19] <StevenR> it tends to upset people at work.
[23:20] <StevenR> (if they don't want me to correct it, they should write it properly before they publish it)
[23:20] <StevenR> but hey, I'm not alone in that, there's a few of us like that on the team
[23:31] <StevenR> (that came out alot nastier that I meant it to :S )
[23:33]  * hamitron wonders if it is safe to come out
[23:58] <StevenR> hamitron: if you mean from me, then yes, it is. :P  ... I'm just tired and grouchy (I should think more happy thoughts probably)
[23:59] <hamitron> :D