[00:07] <gamerchick02> i have a crown.
[00:07] <gamerchick02> but i'm the only one who can wear it.
[02:16] <snap-l> http://www.newscorp.com/news/news_502.html <- Shortest Press Release Ever.
[11:37] <Wolfger> morning
[11:37] <rick_h_> morning
[11:40] <rick_h_> snap-l: http://www.walrus-books.com/2011/06/epubdemo3/
[12:09] <Wolfger> Why does NASA keep looking for signs of life on Mars? I say we should be transporting microscopic organisms over there, and see what happens to them when they are set loose.
[12:09] <greg-g> g'morn
[12:10] <Wolfger> Live? Die? Mutate? Evolve and declare independence from Mother Earth?
[12:11] <brousch> Wolfger: that's not very environmentally friendly of you
[12:11] <Wolfger> It's very environmentally friendly. I'm trying to promote an ecosystem
[12:12] <greg-g> Wolfger: didn't you know? Wastelands are supposed to stay wastelands!
[12:12] <brousch> first we must determine if an ecosystem already exists
[12:12] <Wolfger> I mean, if we're going to launch Curiosity to see if Mars can sustain life, what better way of testing than to send some life over and see? Mythbuster this thing wide open.
[12:12] <greg-g> ok, brousch was actually a better hippy than I there.
[12:13] <brousch> greg-g: but we only have to do this because damned dirty hippies like you would whine if we didn't ;)
[12:13] <greg-g> Wolfger: well, as a scientist, we know that we would have to send every type of simple organism imagineable, which we can't really find in the wild nor create in the lab, so we wouldn't be able to bust any myth other than "given the species we tried..."
[12:14] <greg-g> brousch: true.
[12:14] <greg-g> :)
[12:14] <Wolfger> So renamed "Curiosity" as "Noah" and send sufficient samples of every microorganism we can
[12:15] <greg-g> sufficient is the hard/possibly impossible word there
[12:15] <Wolfger> they're microorganisms... they don't take much room :-)
[12:15] <greg-g> not about room, but about getting all of the right combinations of traits
[12:15] <greg-g> am I being too serious too early in the morning?
[12:16] <Wolfger> greg-g: sufficient meaning, in this case, "a number that scientists agree should be able to start a viable new culture upon arrival". I don't now how many that is, but I'm sure the dudes who study microbiology do.
[12:17] <Wolfger> but I think good starting points are to send organisms that already live in harsh environments on Earth.
[12:18] <Wolfger> of course, one problem with this approach is that the long flight through space may/will start them mutating before they reach Mars
[12:18] <Wolfger> but we can only do so much. Instantaneous transport of material is not yet possible (nor is it likely to ever be, sorry Star Trek fans)
[12:27] <brousch> dreamkiller
[13:04] <snap-l> blargh
[13:05] <snap-l> spent the night at Emergency with JoDee's dad because hefell
[13:05] <Wolfger> :-(  Sorry to hear that snap-l
[13:05] <Wolfger> is he ok?
[13:06] <snap-l> I know there's no way in hell I can get8 hours of sleep in 2hours, but damned if I'm going to try
[13:06] <snap-l> Yeah, he's fine
[13:06] <snap-l> they couldn't stop the bleeding because he's on blood thinners
[13:06] <brousch> snap-l: that's rough
[13:06] <snap-l> common problem
[13:06] <snap-l> But the American House sent him there
[13:06] <snap-l> as he should have been sent the many times before
[13:07] <snap-l> (when he wasn't at American House)
[13:08] <snap-l> Still, quite tired today
[13:08] <snap-l> Didn't get home until after 5am
[13:10] <brousch> did you bring a pillow?
[13:10] <snap-l> to Emergency? No
[13:10] <snap-l> To work? I work from home.
[13:10] <snap-l> So a pillow is a glorious few feet away.
[13:11] <greg-g> an all but too tempting few feet away, eh?
[13:14] <snap-l> Actually not as far as one might think
[13:19] <snap-l> God I really hate the connection manager that ships with the Thinkpad for Windows
[13:21] <brousch> well the obvious solution is
[13:21] <brousch> bah, nevermind, you have it bad enough this morning
[13:21] <snap-l> Say Ubuntu motherfucker. Say it.
[13:21] <snap-l> ;)
[13:22] <brousch> no, now i'm afraid to
[13:22] <snap-l> OK, the Internet hasn't blown up. Life still exists on the planet
[13:22] <snap-l> All is well with the world.
[13:22] <snap-l> and if we want that homeostatis to continue, I shall try to get inanother hour.
[13:22] <snap-l> laterness.
[13:26] <Wolfger> snap-l: Ubuntu
[13:27] <greg-g> Say 'what' again, I dare you!
[13:27] <Wolfger> greg-g: what
[13:27] <Wolfger> I so totally would have been killed by that man
[13:27] <greg-g> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snW3cM1KipQ
[13:28] <greg-g> Wolfger: I don't think you are alone in that assessment
[13:28] <Wolfger> that I would have been killed?
[13:28] <Wolfger> thanks
[13:32] <Wolfger> Is it just me, or does anybody else think the typical American is more concerned with the NFL lockout than the debt ceiling?
[13:33] <brousch> i'm more concerned with how oracle's lawsuit will impact android
[13:35] <jjesse> Wolfger you are correct
[13:36] <jjesse> i could care less about the nfl lockout
[13:36] <jjesse> though i don't understand the need for a debt ceiling if we are always going to raise it
[13:37] <brousch> heh, that is kind of silly
[13:44] <ColonelPanic001> I am very concerned about the status of the Handegg league. Give me my social opiates
[13:44] <ColonelPanic001> How can I be expected to live without watching a bunch of millionaires play a game?
[13:48] <Wolfger> brousch: are you under the illusion that you are a typical American in this respect?
[13:48] <brousch> no
[14:00] <Wolfger> OK, Python question for anybody except rick_h_: What's the best gui to use? Tkinter, just because it's built in? Or something else? I will want the end product to be cross platform and distributable without non-Linux people having to install other packages (Linux people have no problem with this, due to our awesome package managers!)
[14:00] <rick_h_> http://www.androidcentral.com/google-music-manager-now-available-linux
[14:01]  * rick_h_ wonders how I got to be excluded from python questions
[14:01] <Wolfger> (...and I only exclude rick_h_ because I don't want to hear anything about using CLI instead of gui... not because I don't value his opinion)
[14:02] <rick_h_> wxpython for simple stuff, going all the way to pyqt if you're doing a real app
[14:03] <Wolfger> "real app"?
[14:03] <rick_h_> so if you're just sticking a ui in front of some script/etc I'd just add wxpython as I think it's easier to get into
[14:03] <rick_h_> but I don't know it would scale up well for something larger
[14:03] <Wolfger> I basically want to write an IRC client (from the gui perspective, identical)
[14:04] <rick_h_> with a side note that I've had limited experience
[14:04] <Wolfger> is there any FLOSS IRC client written in Python I could steal from?
[14:04] <rick_h_> no idea, gui irc seems a bit crazy to me :P
[14:05] <Wolfger> heh
[14:07] <brousch> with any gui other than tkinter you will have to install something extra, or go through the pain of trying to package it
[14:07] <brousch> esp on windows
[14:09] <brousch> you need python+wxpython, or python+pygtk all in one installer, or python+pyqt
[14:09] <brousch> because, remember, windows doesn't even come with python
[14:13] <Wolfger> Windows sucks. :-p
[14:14] <Wolfger> is there any built-in package creator for Python, to distribute Py apps on sucky OS's
[14:14] <Wolfger> ?
[14:15] <brousch> kind of
[14:15] <brousch> http://www.py2exe.org/
[14:27] <brousch> rick_h_: are you actually using the google music manager?
[14:27] <brousch> mine complained that flac is not supported, now it won't upload anything
[14:34] <rick_h_> brousch: no, I
[14:34] <rick_h_> m in the amazon boat
[14:34] <rick_h_> but figured I'd share
[14:34] <rick_h_> the article says it supports flac and ogg by transcoding them to 320kb .mp3 and uploads those
[14:34] <brousch> yeah, now it says the servers may be overloaded
[14:35] <brousch> all those linux geek uploading their music
[14:35] <rick_h_> we tend to have good bandwidth
[14:35] <rick_h_> need it for those iso's and updates :)
[14:57] <Wolfger> too much to learn :-p
[14:58] <Wolfger> I need the plug-in learning, Matrix style.
[14:58]  * Wolfger knows kung fu
[14:58] <Wolfger> (not really)
[14:58] <brousch> need to learn python, then the gui toolkit, then how to distribute it
[14:58] <rick_h_> google doodle is kind of cool today
[14:58] <rick_h_> yea, welcome to programming :)
[14:59] <jjesse> its pretty nice
[14:59] <rick_h_> next we'll make you a DBA, then a deployment wizard, and finally see if we can melt your brain with some scaling tricks using async, eventual consistancy, and message passing :)
[15:00] <Wolfger> start learning Python, then somebody says stfu&c and I say yeah, sounds good, oh wait, now I'm learning Tk. No, wait, wx...
[15:00] <Wolfger> ugh
[15:00] <Wolfger> I could just make it a cli app that virtually nobody would use... :-p
[15:01] <brousch> webapp
[15:01] <brousch> everything is a webapp now
[15:02] <Wolfger> because I think the overlap between people who use Twitter and people who use CLI is very small... add in the circle of people who would find my app useful, and I might be the only one in that Venn
[15:02] <Wolfger> webapp sucks
[15:02] <Wolfger> then I would have to host it
[15:02] <brousch> oh, it's some kind of twitter app?
[15:03] <brousch> you're supposed to use adobe air for those
[15:03] <Wolfger> THC: Twitter Hastag Chat
[15:03] <Wolfger> for that segment of the Twitter population that treats a hashtag almost exactly like an IRC chatroom (but have no idea what IRC is)
[15:04] <ptenhoopen_> Interesting
[15:04] <brousch> sounds like a plugin for pidgin
[15:04] <Wolfger> I came up with this idea about a year ago, and got some people excited that I might actually do it
[15:05] <Wolfger> and then like a chump I dropped it on the floor
[15:05] <Wolfger> swept it under the rug
[15:06] <Wolfger> now I'm feeling the urge to code (though not necessarily stfu)
[15:06] <Wolfger> :-)
[15:06] <Wolfger> ugh... s/Hastag/Hashtag/...
[15:07] <brousch> write the cli version then slap on the gui
[15:07] <rick_h_> api
[15:07] <Wolfger> thought about that... not sure how well that would work. I think I might be causing myself more pain doing it that way
[15:08] <ptenhoopen_> brousch: +1
[15:08] <ptenhoopen_> rick_h: +1
[15:08] <jrwren> its sad that this channel is most active during business hours.  so much lost productivity :)
[15:09] <brousch> :P
[15:09] <Wolfger> jrwren --
[15:09] <Wolfger> :-)
[15:09] <brousch> who peed on your wheaties this morning?
[15:10] <jrwren> wtf?
[15:10] <jrwren> rofl
[15:10] <jrwren> i just wish I got more done in a day.
[15:11] <brousch> ah, i thought you were admonishing us for being less productive
[15:12] <Wolfger> rick_h_: google doodle is downright bizarre today
[15:16] <rick_h_> yea, interesting/different
[15:25] <Blazeix> I'm a big fan of calders
[15:25] <Blazeix> I'd also like to be on the team who develops these doodles.
[15:25] <Blazeix> s/who/that/
[15:44] <Wolfger> normally you can make out the "Google" inside the doodle, but I don't see it at all here
[15:44] <jjesse> can you make it "spin" in a way that shows it?
[15:44] <Wolfger> oh, sure, let's just waste *more* productivity.... :-D
[15:45] <Wolfger> you'll make jrwren get nothing done at all today
[15:50] <Wolfger> wtf? http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1107/quidditch.college.campus/content.11.html
[15:52] <brousch> quidditch seems silly until we get flying, self-propelled, AI-controlled balls
[15:52] <Wolfger> no, no, no... aside from that
[15:52] <Wolfger> wtf is coming out of her shorts?
[15:53] <brousch> does a human act as the ball?
[15:53] <Wolfger> even if we accept quidditch, that's just inexplicably weird
[15:53] <brousch> she is sparkly like the little ball
[15:55] <brousch> "in Muggle Quidditch the Snitch is most often a neutral player, usually dressed in all gold, sometimes adorned with wings"
[15:55] <jjesse> wow thats silly
[15:55] <brousch> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muggle_Quidditch
[15:56] <Wolfger> but what is the brown thing flying out of the snitch's short? That's just wrong.
[15:58] <brousch> you probably have to grab it
[15:58] <Wolfger> Hmm
[15:58] <brousch> held in place by flexing of her buttocks
[15:59] <Wolfger> LOL
[15:59] <Wolfger> I was in the process of typing "that makes sense" until you threw in that last comment
[16:02] <snap-l> Wolfger: Python GUI? wxpython
[16:31] <jrwren> rofl.
[16:31] <jrwren> pygtk?
[16:32] <greg-g> ok, this may be a dumb question, but are there any service providers that all you to use a 4g capable phone on their 3g network (eg: virgin mobile)
[16:32] <jrwren> allow you?
[16:33] <greg-g> well, like, some providers don't let you use any phone other than the ones they sell, right
[16:33] <jrwren> i would think they all do. i've never heard of a 3g fon that doesn't fall back to edge if there is no 3g
[16:33] <greg-g> well, my thinking is this: buy a 4g phone full price, but get a 3g (eg: virgin mobile) plan for a month or so, and maybe switch over to a "grown up" plan later with 4g service
[16:34] <greg-g> (virgin only has 3g service, not 4g)
[16:35] <rick_h_> the problem is that the phones only work per service for the most part
[16:35] <rick_h_> they're built with specific freq. bands
[16:35] <rick_h_> and they just don't run on the bands of the other networks
[16:35] <rick_h_> 4g is the same way, ATT and verizion 4g phones run on a sub-section of the 4g spectrum
[16:36] <Wolfger> uh... hmm...
[16:36] <rick_h_> so even though they'll finally have sim cards, you can't take a Verizon 4g phone over to ATT because the radio isn't build for those bands in the spectrum
[16:36] <Wolfger> I could be completely wrong, but I thought all carriers in the US used one of two bands
[16:36] <rick_h_> they uses ranges in the bands
[16:37] <rick_h_> the band is say xxx-yyy and verizon will use x00-x66 and att x67-x99 kind of thing
[16:37] <rick_h_> http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/15/verizon-no-our-4g-lte-phones-wont-work-with-atts-lte-network/
[16:37] <rick_h_> Verizon’s LTE network operates in the upper half of the 700 Mhz range (746-787 Mhz), while AT&T’s operates on the lower half (704-746).
[16:37] <rick_h_> and then that article brings up that the 4g isn't carrying voice calls yet
[16:40] <Wolfger> re: quidditch... friend of mine came up with a brilliant suggestion just now. Instead of holding the brooms between their legs and running around, they should be "flying" unicycles around the field. Mount a broomstick on it for looks if you like...
[16:41] <rick_h_> lol
[16:41] <greg-g> rick_h_: oh wow, that's stupid. But, I guess I saw that coming
[16:42] <rick_h_> yea, this is why I just go contract. Only tmo has a price cut if you buy your own phone
[16:42] <rick_h_> but it's not like you can get a phone and carrier hop
[16:42] <rick_h_> it's all a very tied system
[16:42] <jrwren> zomg, unicycles would be awesome!
[16:42] <greg-g> damn, my plans are foiled!
[16:42] <greg-g> rick_h_: thanks for the reality check.
[16:43] <rick_h_> basicaly start with the carrier that works in your area and then find the phone you want amonth them
[16:43] <rick_h_> amonth/among
[16:43]  * greg-g nods
[16:52] <snap-l> Wel, you're also dealing with carriers that have ben slow to upgrae their systems as well
[16:53] <rick_h_> yea, it's a freaking mess
[16:54] <snap-l> Esp since Verizon uses CDMA
[17:03]  * greg-g grumbles
[17:04] <rick_h_> greg-g: you've done good to stay out of this long heh
[17:04] <greg-g> :)
[17:07] <snap-l> greg-g: This video should help you transition to your new phone service: http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/94774
[17:12] <snap-l> Apparently these video was created before the invention of the zero
[17:23] <greg-g> snap-l: thanks :)
[17:27] <Wolfger> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/95224/is-there-any-limit-on-how-much-one-should-consider-about-learning-new-programming
[17:41] <rick_h_> lol, awesome. I think I've got that disease Wolfger
[17:42] <Wolfger> yeah, it reminded me of your rant about part time devs...
[17:43] <Wolfger> there are those that want to know enough to get/keep a job, and then there are those that just want to know more and more and omgitneverends
[17:46] <rick_h_> it is tough though, there really is a never ending set of skills to get from just writing a script to scaling up some large service
[17:46] <rick_h_> and it's hard to know enough about each step/level
[17:46] <rick_h_> and that's not even considering things like languages/db tools that are just plain better for some jobs than others
[17:47] <snap-l> Welcome to programming. It's a journey, not a destination
[17:53] <brousch> great, now you guys don't have to watch my pyohio presentation
[17:53] <rick_h_> why is this?
[17:54] <brousch> you already have all of the conclusions
[17:54] <Wolfger> \o/
[17:56] <snap-l> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/95224/is-there-any-limit-on-how-much-one-should-consider-about-learning-new-programming/95247#95247
[17:57] <snap-l> Wolfger: Why do you read programmers.stackexchange.com? :)
[17:57] <snap-l> It's like the biggest programmer rathole out there.
[17:57] <snap-l> "What color is your bellybutton lint?"
[17:58] <Wolfger> because sometimes it's fun to read that rubbish and make fun of people :-)
[17:58] <snap-l> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/16651/programming-for-the-sake-of-programming-is-there-something-wrong
[17:58] <snap-l> We are artists. Our profession is a form of art. What do you think about it?
[17:59] <snap-l> Bwahahahahahahahahahaha.
[18:01] <rick_h_> well he's got one part right
[18:01] <rick_h_> I mean I didn't take this job because I was facinated by 'market research'
[18:02] <snap-l> Right, and I couldn't give a fuck about the auto industry.
[18:02] <rick_h_> I took it because I had the chance to develop in python, to spread python to others, and hopefully do some interesting things along the way
[18:03] <rick_h_> right _stink_ ?
[18:03] <snap-l> http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/9105/physics-in-an-rpg-water-and-electricity-spells
[18:04] <snap-l> See, this is the kind of meta discussion I care about
[18:05] <_stink_> rick_h_: just recovered after power outage, what'd i miss?
[18:05] <rick_h_> nothing, caught you coming back and figured i'd point you out :P
[18:06] <rick_h_> power problems? You've been on/off today it seems?
[18:06] <_stink_> :)
[18:06] <_stink_> rick_h_: naw, this time it was DTE coming by to replace the meter
[18:06] <_stink_> took the day off
[18:06] <_stink_> so happen to be home
[18:06] <rick_h_> ah, gotcha
[18:06] <_stink_> to reset my server
[18:06] <_stink_> good stroke of luck, because i'd be pissed if i were at work and the server went out
[18:09] <_stink_> oh, and earlier was AT&T fixing my router.
[18:13] <Wolfger> r
[18:13] <Wolfger> rick_h_: right... who cares about customer happiness? ;-)
[18:13] <snap-l> _stink_: Yeah, DTE replaced our meter a while ago
[18:13] <Wolfger> just stfu&c
[18:14] <snap-l> interesting watching them in action.
[18:15] <Wolfger> I have a comic in my cube. The gist of it is: Getting paid is objective #1, surviving to spend that pay is objective #2. Customer satisfaction, therefore is #3... or maybe #5.
[18:15] <snap-l> Wolfger: That's about it
[18:15] <snap-l> I loved that slogan at Ford" Quality is Job One"
[18:16] <snap-l> unfortunately, outside of the auto industry, nobody knows what Job One means
[18:17] <snap-l> it's not the first priority, it's the first car off the line.
[18:18] <Wolfger> which nobody in their right mind wants to own!
[18:18] <snap-l> a'yep
[18:18] <snap-l> Unless you're a collector, but generally speaking the ones that I've talked to want the last one off the line
[18:21] <Wolfger> "You can better car drive than I"... I loathe German grammar sometimes.
[18:21] <Wolfger> It's like talking to Yoda.
[18:22] <Blazeix> sweet, I just received my spotify invitation.
[18:22] <Blazeix> I just signed up on Wednesday; that was pretty quick
[18:24] <rick_h_> awesome
[18:35] <snap-l> Just sent this to my parents:
[18:35] <snap-l>  Superstition, half-truths and hysteria have many forwards, but the truth goes unnoticed on some website out there.  -- Martin Luther, if he had e-mail.
[18:35] <rick_h_> http://www.zurb.com/article/569/super-awesome-interactions-with-jquery-ta kind of cool video on web design stuff widox Blazeix _stink_
[18:35] <snap-l> (After they had sent this to me: http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/print_did_fdr_promise_that_social_security_would.html)
[18:39] <Blazeix> snap-l: ooh, cool. I've been finding jquery ui kind of awkward at work, definitely going to watch that.
[18:39] <rick_h_> yea, it's not for query ui the libary, but just ui interaction design/etc
[18:42] <Blazeix> ah. they mention jquery ui in the summary, but looking over the notes it's more general stuff. still cool though
[18:42] <rick_h_> yea
[18:42] <rick_h_> jquery ui is kind of annoying
[18:42] <rick_h_> though really anything is I guess
[18:53] <Blazeix> so far I've been pretty impressed by ext.js
[18:54] <rick_h_> I got annoyed with them back when they did their relicensing bit
[18:54] <Blazeix> still trying to wrap my head around their mvc js api, though
[18:54] <rick_h_> I've not checked them out in a while
[18:54] <Blazeix> ah, what did it used to be? The free for GPL seems pretty cool
[18:54] <rick_h_> yea, I did a project for my last job when it was all open, then they did the split license and since it was commercial was kind of annoying
[18:55] <rick_h_> had to look at redoing
[18:55] <Blazeix> ugh
[18:55] <rick_h_> that and that damn infinite scroll table ugh
[19:42] <jrwren> anyone make bitcoins
[19:51] <ColonelPanic001> nein
[21:25] <snap-l> http://www.christiancentury.org/article/2011-07/blogosphere-abuzz-over-rupert-murdoch-bible-mogul
[21:25] <snap-l> Those crazy wst-Michiganders.
[22:48] <Blazeix> this is a neat plugin: http://harvesthq.github.com/chosen/
[22:49] <rick_h_> yea, was checking that out
[22:49] <rick_h_> a good select is hard to come by
[22:49] <rick_h_> but it still misses my one feature I loved from the yui2 auto complete
[22:50] <rick_h_> hitting tab should select the current completion option