[01:16] <ging> anyone know how to make gnome terminal work with tabs but not switch between them with alt+number ?
[01:21] <ging> deleting all the short cuts worked, but seems the wrong way of doing it
[06:28] <shauno> confusing the life out of myself with routing this morning.  connecting to my vps with ptppd.  I can resolve & reach (e.g.) google.com.  I know I'm reaching it because I get a '301 Moved Permanently' sending me to www.google.com, and then a 302 Found sending me onwards to www.google.co.uk.  so data is getting back to me
[06:29] <shauno> but I can't load any pages at all.  wget hangs on 'awaiting response'
[06:52] <czajkowski> Aloha
[06:54] <daubers> Morning
[07:00] <DJones> Morning
[07:12] <shauno> hm.  should probably leave messing with iptables until I get home :/
[07:12] <AlanBell> morning
[07:12] <shauno> o/
[07:14] <daubers> o/
[07:16] <shauno> rather annoying.  don't think I've touched iptables / ufw since I used pptp last.  it just doesn't work anymore :/
[07:28]  * daubers waits for the SEB man to turn up
[07:43] <diplo> Morning all
[07:48] <hoover> morning all
[07:51] <MooDoo> hello
[07:58] <bigcalm> Good morning you Monday people :)
[08:04] <MooDoo> WTF is going on, it's manic at work, thought it was supposed to be the summer hols
[08:04] <daubers> meter changed
[08:05] <bigcalm> People are trying to get as much done before they are forced to take time off with their children
[08:24]  * MooDoo hugs czajkowski as she sounds on a downer x
[08:54] <oimon> it's quiet in here, everyone on holiday?
[08:54] <MooDoo> it's monday....everyone is probably either still in bed or snowed under
[08:55]  * hoover 's playing a game of nethack
[08:55] <hoover> the first time in ages
[08:55] <hoover> DL7 in the Gnomish Mines ATM
[08:55] <oimon> i was working this weekend for a powerdown/powerup..had lots of issues and feeling rather weary today
[08:56] <MooDoo> oimon, sounds like you need a kip
[08:56] <oimon> i'm at work again
[08:56] <oimon> taking wednesday off for my trouble
[08:56] <oimon> SAN failed to update and some switches failed
[08:56] <hoover> I was on call over the weekend, got woken up 3:30 on Sun. morning by a full /var FS 8-P
[08:56] <oimon> how annoying
[08:57] <oimon> webserver?
[09:03] <hoover> na, customers ftp server
[09:03] <hoover> 1GB /var fs... skanky. ;-)
[09:04] <jpds> Why have /var on a partition?
[09:05] <bigcalm> If it's a high-write area, it makes sense to have it on a seperate disc
[09:05] <popey> so logs dont fill up /
[09:05] <oimon> also, if logfiles fill your /...yes as popey said
[09:06] <oimon> not necessary on desktop PC, but very necessary on servers
[09:07] <brobostigon> morning eveyrone.
[09:07] <hoover> mornin brobostigon, hi bigcalm
[09:08] <brobostigon> mmorning hoover
[09:08] <bigcalm> Howdy hoovie :)
[09:08] <brobostigon> mmorning bigcalm
[09:08] <bigcalm> Hullo brobostigon :)
[09:08] <bigcalm> I wonder if I can get Mondays off from now until the end of time
[09:09]  * bigcalm slumps with his coffee
[09:09] <hoover> biggie, are you on google plus?
[09:09] <bigcalm> hoover: http://cuth.eu/+
[09:10] <hoover> thx done ;-)
[09:10] <bigcalm> :D
[09:11] <brobostigon> :)
[09:14] <ubuntuuk-planet> [oimon] Remove windows tax before purchase..save £64 - http://oimon.wordpress.com/2011/07/25/remove-windows-tax-before-purchase-save-64/
[09:14] <popey> AlanBell: poke yamatt on irc about camping at oggcamp pls
[09:16] <bigcalm> 3 weeks to go!
[09:16] <bigcalm> OMG
[09:17]  * MooDoo really wanted to go to that :(
[09:17] <bigcalm> MooDoo: plan for next year!
[09:19] <bigcalm> OggCamp 100
[09:21] <MooDoo> bigcalm, yeah i'll have to do that.
[09:21] <AlanBell> they have already booked the campsite popey, about 20 people
[09:22] <popey> so i hear
[09:24] <MooDoo> oooo never thought of camping :)  that's a cool idea
[09:25] <oimon> my dad is in farnham and my in-laws are in guildford :D
[09:28]  * StevenR wonders how to find the dell n series laptops
[09:31] <oimon> StevenR: it's possible that they exist too, but you have to ask :-\
[09:32] <StevenR> oimon: so nothing on the website?
[09:33] <oimon> i think regional dell sites have the choice to display what they want on the site, however it doesn't mean they don't sell them :)
[09:33] <oimon> UK site is notorious for it
[09:34] <StevenR> oimon: yeah :/   not that I really need a new laptop yet :)
[09:37]  * MooDoo just noticed a small crack on his laptops display :(
[09:40] <oimon> MooDoo: :( still in warranty?
[09:41] <MooDoo> oimon, no about 3/4 years old......it's not bad crack, just something to watch out for
[09:48] <popey> MooDoo: a minor defect on your laptop, you know what that means?
[09:48] <popey> New laptop time!
[09:48]  * popey wonders what laptop sabdfl would recommend for Ubuntu  :D
[09:50]  * MooDoo is thinking of going to popey route...mac
[09:51] <popey> Don't do it man
[09:51] <MooDoo> popey, don't recommend macs then?
[09:51] <popey> Depends
[09:51] <popey> Macs are great if you want to run OSX
[09:51] <diplo> :q
[09:51] <diplo> oops
[09:51] <popey> Less great if you want to run Free software OSs
[09:52] <AlanBell> I would recommend buying the exact same model sabdfl or silbs has
[09:53] <AlanBell> bugs get attention
[09:53]  * daubers is bored of laptops
[09:53] <Laney> i quite happily run ubuntu on my mbp
[09:53]  * daubers wants a desktop that is integrated into his desk
[09:53] <popey> get one thats integrated into your legs
[09:54] <Laney> without the 'top' then
[09:54] <daubers> popey: I'm not Kevin Warwick :)
[09:54] <MooDoo> daubers, one like he had in the original trol?
[09:54] <MooDoo> tron?
[09:55] <daubers> MooDoo: That would be cool, but not good for your neck
[09:55]  * brobostigon wants a monitor, the size of a wall.
[09:55]  * MooDoo just wants a desktop pc, had enough with just a laptop
[09:56] <oimon> btw anyone running natty in classic mode? bug 735070 is really annoying me!
[09:57] <oimon> wonder if it affects everyone
[09:58] <daubers> I think the best PC would be a big desktop somewhere, with the input device as a wireless tablet, like the new Nintendo console has
[09:58] <daubers> that would be _amazing_
[09:59] <hoover> brb lunch
[10:00] <oimon> mmm elevenses..
[10:08] <davmor2> morning people how was the weekend?
[10:08] <MooDoo> davmor2, morning buddy, busy but pleasant
[10:08] <davmor2> MooDoo: How's wifey?
[10:09] <popey> A friend of mine says " If anyone knows any good windows admins in Reading who are looking for alternative employment, we've got a couple of positions open"
[10:09] <popey> followed by another friend who says "The only good Windows admin is a..."
[10:09] <davmor2> oneiric is glitchy but my god the finished product will be much better than natty
[10:09] <MooDoo> davmor2, she's ok.....
[10:10] <davmor2> MooDoo: good,good :)
[10:10] <gord> "alternative employment" sounds scary
[10:10] <davmor2> gord: just means different to the employment you are in
[10:10] <Mez> gord: espescially combined with "a couple of positions open"
[10:11] <gord> davmor2, yes i was being whimsical :P
[10:11] <davmor2> I know I just thought I'd ruin it for you :)
[10:12] <davmor2> gord: you got dungeon siege 3?  /me is annoyed that there are no pack animals
[10:12] <gord> davmor2, nope, no good co-op ruins it for me
[10:14] <davmor2> gord: I recommend you get it for the single player mode alone when you can get it cheap,  it's a really enjoyable game, although it's slower paced than things like dragon age it's a beautiful and tricky game :)
[10:14] <directhex> moo.
[10:14] <daubers> popey: I might know someone
[10:15] <davmor2> directhex: morning good sir
[10:15] <davmor2> directhex: are you the mono fan?
[10:15] <directhex> davmor2, maybe. why? /me hides from ninjas
[10:17] <davmor2> directhex: there is a new game called spacechem in Ubuntu Software Center that runs on it I was wondering why with crappy gfx mono would use 120% of the cpu but with good gfx it would use 35-50%
[10:18] <davmor2> directhex: I'm wondering if there is a bug in there for optimisation maybe?
[10:19] <directhex> davmor2, i suspect it's more likely to come from Tao, which is the library which wraps OpenGL - i.e. it's using your CPU more when you turn down the GPU detail, and using the GPU less
[10:20] <directhex> davmor2, it might also be a GPU driver bug - it's much smoother on my Intel laptop than FGLRX desktop
[10:20] <davmor2> directhex: ah see now that would makes some sort of sense.
[10:21] <gord> binary drivers tend to suck at 2d acceleration on linux, i would assume its trying to go down that route
[10:21] <davmor2> directhex: possible it was using the built-in nvidia 8100 gfx which has been fine till I've had to start testing the games in USC
[10:21] <directhex> davmor2, i wouldn't trust an 8100 to draw more than a couple of dozen things at once
[10:22] <davmor2> directhex: yeah I treated myself to a new amd/ati HD5450 1 gig ddr3 card on saturday much better now
[10:35] <oimon> docky is behaving terribly on my new machine, have now disocvered cairo dock...quite nice!
[10:37] <brobostigon> i admit to be somewhat amazed by gingerbread on my htc dream. it is so smooth and quick, it is amazing. also, with only the two google services running, over 1/2 the ram, stays free, so nice and low ram usage aswell.
[10:40] <oimon> brobostigon: which version number is GB?
[10:40] <brobostigon> oimon: 2.3.*
[10:40] <oimon> is your phone also charging quicker?
[10:40] <brobostigon> about the same.
[10:41] <oimon> i've noticed that since CM7 my phone charges a lot quicker ...something strange about thatr
[10:41] <brobostigon> agreed.
[10:41] <oimon> after a few weeks of use on CM7 i like some bits but also dislike other bits
[10:43] <brobostigon> oimon: i like that gingerbread is more battery friendly and process management is better. and also the darker themeing, it is easier on my eyes, closer to how i have gnome-terminal setup, dark background, white text.
[10:44] <oimon> contact management sucks a bit
[10:44] <oimon> compared to sense
[10:45] <brobostigon> i have never used sense in full blown, only play, for a few minutes.
[10:45] <brobostigon> i tend to use the folders alot, fo filter which kinds of contacts i see.
[10:46] <oimon> in sense, i can hit the phone key then start typing the name of the contact rather than the number
[10:46] <oimon> on the phone screen
[10:46] <directhex> i keep needing to reboot my phone running wp7
[10:47] <directhex> um, cm7
[10:47] <brobostigon> i calculated the other day, my battery could last, 28 hours under normal usage now, under gingerbread, which is the best of any android version, i have used upto now, on my htc dream.
[10:47] <directhex> random stuff stops working - e.g. screen won't update, apps with black screens, status screen won't go away, etc
[10:47] <brobostigon> oimon: ah, i see, i have a proper hw keyboard on mine, so can do that, with the standard addr book.
[10:48] <brobostigon> directhex: i have aosp gingerbread here, and have seen nothing like that behaviour.
[11:03] <Ng> directhex: you have a windows phone 7 phone?
[11:04] <directhex> Ng, i meant CM7. i won't buy into WP7 until i can transfer music on via banshee
[11:04] <Ng> CM7?
[11:04] <brobostigon> Ng: cyanogenmod 7.
[11:04] <directhex> which i can't, because microsoft decided the iphone was popular due to DRM, and decided to implement the zune's encrypted audio transfer protocol
[11:04] <Ng> oh
[11:05] <andylockran> hey
[11:05] <Ng> I'm just curious that I don't appear to know anybody who uses winphone7
[11:05] <Ng> *somebody* must have bought one, surely ;)
[11:05] <directhex> Ng, it's a fringe platform right now
[11:05] <directhex> Ng, from what i've seen on the web, it's a nice platform. but too locked down.
[11:05] <Ng> directhex: fringe platforms are the norm around here ;)
[11:05] <oimon> i know someone with an HTC phone that runs win phone, ...but he put android on it instead
[11:06] <directhex> oimon, has HTC put out a "runs any mobile OS" piece of hardware with windows originally since the WM6.5 based HTC HD 2?
[11:06] <oimon> i thinik he has the HD2
[11:07] <directhex> WM6.5 has as much bearing on WP7 as openmoko does on android
[11:08] <andylockran> :D
[11:09] <directhex> HTC are the only ones who even made WM6.5 remotely useful for the last couple of years of its life, by replacing pretty much every part of the ui and app stack
[11:09] <oimon> i've never seen a zune IRl
[11:10] <oimon> i will prob never see a WP7 either :P
[11:10] <directhex> they didn't ship zune in the uk, iirc
[11:10] <directhex> wp7 will get more visible when the marketing push from nokia starts
[11:12] <directhex> well that's an unexpected /join
[11:13] <Myrtti> not really
[11:13] <Myrtti> :-(
[11:13] <Myrtti> and :-)
[11:13] <davmor2> oimon: You not missing much to be honest :)
[11:14] <oimon> i rarely see my own mp3 player tbh...stays in my pocket and never needs charging
[11:14] <Myrtti> people still have mp3 players?
[11:14] <Myrtti> wow :-P
[11:14] <oimon> to listen via my phone would suck too much battery
[11:14] <directhex> yeah. my wife is cross that the supply of good ones has dried up
[11:14] <sabdfl> hello directhex :-)
[11:15] <directhex> nowadays a high-end mp3 player is a phone with the phone part ripped out. which seems pointless
[11:15] <popey> hah
[11:16] <popey> I still use my iRiver iHP-140 on a daily basis :D
[11:16] <popey> Lasted well that old clunker has.
[11:16] <popey> Mostly listen to HHGTTG in bed.
[11:16] <AlanBell> hi sabdfl
[11:16] <oimon> i loved my iriver, but it got nicked. however my cowon iaudio is a worthy replacement
[11:16] <davmor2> Myrtti: Yes I do it has much bigger storage than my phone and is dedicated to one task and does it brilliantly unlike some3 phones
[11:17] <directhex> wife has managed to demolish 3 mp3 players since we started dating
[11:17] <sabdfl> i haven't yet figure out why xchat-gnome places me in this room whenever i fire it up
[11:17] <sabdfl> but i like the chatter here so don't mind :-)
[11:17] <brobostigon> :)
[11:17] <oimon> could think of more unfriendly places to arrive at :)
[11:17] <AlanBell> it joins #ubuntu-GB as that is the country code and that redirects to here
[11:18] <directhex> oimon, imagine joining #ubuntu-fr. it's filled with the french!
[11:18] <oimon> moi, j'aime les francais :D
[11:18] <AlanBell> and half of Canada
[11:18] <Myrtti> davmor2: alright :-> I'd be listening to mostly audiobooks and I'm not sure if any mp3 player that I'd bother to pay for would work as well as my phone does for those
[11:19] <brobostigon> does xchat do some detection of you ip addr, and works out where you are, and then joins the relevant regional ubuntu irc room ?
[11:19] <davmor2> sabdfl: That's cause all the cool kids hang out here so it knew you wanted to be here too :)
[11:19] <AlanBell> brobostigon: no, it is the countrycode of your locale settings
[11:19] <brobostigon> AlanBell: ah, ok. interesting.
[11:19]  * TheOpenSourcerer thinks it is time for lunch. Left over boeuf bourguignon, nom nom.
[11:20] <brobostigon> good plan TheOpenSourcerer :)
[11:20] <Myrtti> xchat-gnome is a sad apparatus :-(
[11:20]  * brobostigon gets lunch also.
[11:20] <sabdfl> i'm going to try #ubuntu-im :-)
[11:20] <directhex> Myrtti, we have staff using empathy for IRC. not something i encourage.
[11:20] <davmor2> Myrtti: I think mine has a dedicated section for audio books so it would probably do that better too
[11:21] <sabdfl> just me in there :(
[11:21] <sabdfl> small island!
[11:21] <Myrtti> davmor2: does it had a pause timer? I listen to my books and podcasts in 30 min increments in bed
[11:21] <DJones> sabdfl: At least you'll have op's in #ubuntu-im :)
[11:22] <Laney> who wants to lend me some bonjela?
[11:22] <davmor2> Myrtti: don't know I've never looked to be honest,  I'll have a look at some point and get back to you
[11:22] <AlanBell> sabdfl: http://ubuntu-uk.org/where-are-we/ there is at least one other ubuntu user there
[11:23] <Myrtti> I wish I could put two pins on that map :-/
[11:23] <AlanBell> Myrtti: does it prevent you??
[11:24]  * oimon tries to find isle of man on a map of GB :$
[11:24]  * brobostigon has lashings of ginger beer.
[11:24]  * Myrtti tries
[11:25] <Myrtti> "Duplicate comment detected; it looks as though you’ve already said that!"
[11:25] <AlanBell> oimon: in the Irish sea
[11:26] <oimon> AlanBell: found it, i was looking there but somehow looking too close to land
[11:26] <AlanBell> Myrtti: ok, I will look into that later and remove that block
[11:26]  * oimon looks at the other isle of man ubuntu user's twitter page
[11:30]  * daubers wonders if there's any libraries that do travel routing
[11:39] <oimon> dell have confirmed that the missing PC i had on order has been "lost" in transit and will replace
[11:39] <oimon> :-S
[11:42] <directhex> ._.
[11:42] <davmor2> Myrtti: Yes it has a sleep function that you can set from anything from 1-120 minutes by the look of it, http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CE4QFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sandisk.com%2Fmedia%2F343157%2Ffuze_um_0809_eng.pdf&rct=j&q=sansa%20fuze%20auto%20pause&ei=p1QtTrKoFtOxhQedvsSqCw&usg=AFQjCNE8NE_HW9HQPbfXyk6Z4kqur3lBRQ
[11:43] <davmor2> Myrtti: and when ever it powers off when you switch it back on it's where it switched off
[11:44] <gord> i still say someone needs to make a sound font for the kindle, that uses brian blessed's voice to read your books to you
[11:44] <gord> would sell billions
[11:46] <daubers> GAH EVOLUTION IS RUBBISH
[11:46] <davmor2> gord: the only problem is you'd want to hear him burst into laughter every 2 minutes would kinda ruin the book :)
[11:46] <popey> daubers: is that supposed to be brian blessed?
[11:46] <daubers> Right click on a calender to change its pref as you got the URI wrong and it pops up a box telling you it can't connect to the calender!
[11:47] <davmor2> daubers: no it isn't at least it shows my all my folders I had to brute force thunderbird to do the same thing
[11:47] <popey> People stil use desktop email clients huh? Quaint.
[11:47] <daubers> davmor2: I'm racing my computer to try and click an option before it pops up a box that moves the focus
[11:48] <daubers> popey: Work email :) Useful to have notifications for when people who pay me money need support
[11:48] <davmor2> daubers: I got the same thing on thunderbird, it turned out I was using the wrong google calendar link I was using the read only public one rather than the private read write one :)
[11:49] <gord> i can't get used to using "applications" in a web browser, no idea why
[11:50] <directhex> gord, because unity does a bad job of letting them be applications?
[11:50] <popey> directhex: http://meow.popey.com/
[11:50] <oimon> evolution was a complete fail at calendarnig for me, thunderbird only a bit better, but still needs regular (every few days) restarts or the calendar seizes up
[11:51] <gord> we actually used to have great webapp support, but there are inherent problems with the model
[11:51] <directhex> popey, when my chromium windows don't show up in unity as tweetdeck windows, i'll feel better
[11:51] <gord> namely, that you can leave the webapp and go to google.com or something
[11:51] <Myrtti> davmor2: oh so that's one of the mp3 players I actually considered buying at one time
[11:51]  * daubers kicks evolution and gives up
[11:52] <popey> "You are leaving this webapp, would you like to open in a new window? (Y/N)  [*] Make this default"
[11:52] <popey> surely thats not that hard?
[11:52] <gord> how do you know you are leaving the webapp?
[11:52] <voidspace> I've created a RAID 5 array (software raid using mdadm) with 3 drives
[11:52] <gord> there is no standard for this stuff
[11:52] <davmor2> Myrtti: also supports ogg if you do the firmware update too :)
[11:52] <voidspace> it is now reporting "raid level 5 active with 2 out of 3 devices, algorithm 2"
[11:52] <popey> gord: stop talking, fix it!
[11:52] <popey> :D
[11:52] <voidspace> does this sounds right
[11:53]  * gord starts yelling at web developers until they get themselves standardised
[11:53] <gord> see you guys in 10 years
[11:53] <gord> maybe
[11:53] <davmor2> gord: only 10 that is optimistic
[11:54] <daubers> voidspace: Is it building the raid still?
[11:54] <voidspace> web guys are the *most* standardised - they have *lots* of standards
[11:54] <voidspace> daubers: I think so
[11:54] <daubers> voidspace: Can you pastebin /proc/mdstat
[11:54] <daubers> !pastebin
[11:54] <voidspace> daubers: there is a syslog message that concerns me
[11:54] <voidspace> daubers: DegradedArray event detected on md device /dev/md0
[11:55] <daubers> voidspace: pastebin the output from "cat /proc/mdstat", that'll be more informative
[11:55] <voidspace> daubers: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/445959/
[11:55] <voidspace> daubers: the UU_ concerns me
[11:55] <voidspace> daubers: I didn't think RAID 5 had "spare" drives, but striped data
[11:56] <voidspace> daubers: but I freely admit to not knowing what I'm talking about :-)
[11:56] <daubers> voidspace: It's fine :) When you generate a new raid5/6 with mdadm it crates a degraded one and then rebuilds it
[11:56] <daubers> voidspace: raid 5 is striped with a single parity stripe
[11:56] <voidspace> daubers: ah, cool - that was the alternative diagnosis and I couldn't find clear information as to which one it was...
[11:56] <voidspace> daubers: you have put my mind at ease :-)
[11:56] <daubers> voidspace: so 1 disk can fail and you have a lesser chance of  losing data
[11:56] <voidspace> daubers: thanks
[11:56] <voidspace> daubers: right
[11:56] <daubers> voidspace: The wikipedia article on raid levels is quite good :)
[11:57] <voidspace> daubers: hah, yeah - I tried reading that a few times...
[11:58] <daubers> voidspace: You heading to oggcamp?
[11:58] <voidspace> daubers: no :-(
[11:58] <daubers> voidspace: Ah, I'd have been happy to go over it with you with diagrams if it helped :) bit easier in person with props
[11:59] <davmor2> Myrtti: I can recommend it completely I've had no issues with it at all :)
[11:59] <voidspace> daubers: yeah, that would definitely help - although the articles I read on RAID 5 showed striped parity data
[11:59] <voidspace> daubers: but I'm quite happy to believe you
[11:59] <voidspace> next question, how do I get my box to broadcast (or be available on the network) by name?
[11:59] <voidspace> I can ssh in by ip address but not by name
[11:59] <daubers> voidspace: The parity is striped in raid5, it's not in raid3 (you have 2 parity stripes in raid6)
[12:00] <voidspace> daubers: right, so the parity data is striped across all the drives?
[12:01] <daubers> voidspace: yep
[12:01] <voidspace> daubers: right, so what does the UU_ from mdstat mean?
[12:01] <daubers> voidspace: That means that it's a degraded array (missing the last disk)
[12:01] <voidspace> daubers: right, but for a new array it's still normal
[12:01] <daubers> voidspace: As above, thats because a new raid set is generated as a degraded one and then rebuilt by mdadm
[12:02] <daubers> voidspace: yes. It should go away in about an hour :)
[12:02] <voidspace> daubers: ok, it just picks the last disk to be the degraded one
[12:02] <daubers> voidspace: Pretty much
[12:03] <voidspace> daubers: any idea about my question on network name? (sorry to pick on you - but you know what the reward for being helpful is...)
[12:03] <daubers> voidspace: That one I don't know :) I'm not sure how the magic distributed dns voodoo works. I just have an old fashioned dns server on my network
[12:03] <voidspace> hehe
[12:04] <voidspace> hmm... so I can ssh into my Mac by name
[12:04] <voidspace> I wonder if it is running a dns server?
[12:05] <daubers> voidspace: Might be something to do with avahi
[12:05] <voidspace> right
[12:06] <daubers> does mdns is the magic bit
[12:06] <voidspace> ParseError
[12:09] <daubers> voidspace: Whats the output of avahi-browse -a
[12:09] <daubers> pastebin it :)
[12:09] <voidspace> well, avahi wasn't installed
[12:10] <daubers> voidspace: Install it and try it. It should do the magic lookups for you
[12:11] <voidspace> daubers: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/445966/
[12:11] <voidspace> daubers: it hasn't completed though
[12:12] <voidspace> daubers: interesting that the ipv4 entry is in ipv6 format
[12:12] <daubers> voidspace: That's the devices mac address
[12:12] <daubers> voidspace: I take it your apple machine is called "bigmac"?
[12:12] <voidspace> daubers: indeed
[12:12] <voidspace> daubers: ooh
[12:12] <daubers> voidspace: try "ping bigmac"
[12:12] <voidspace> daubers: I ssh into bigmac.local
[12:13] <voidspace> daubers: so....
[12:13] <voidspace> daubers: royale.local already works
[12:13] <daubers> :) Magic
[12:13] <voidspace> daubers: :-)
[12:13] <voidspace> daubers: thank you
[12:13] <daubers> voidspace: No probs
[12:13] <voidspace> daubers: although I'm going to have to kill avahi-browse
[12:13] <daubers> voidspace: hit q
[12:13] <voidspace> hah
[12:13] <voidspace> SIGINT
[12:14]  * daubers ponders adding avahi/zeroconf magic to his storage servers
[12:14] <oimon> just found a bone in my chicken roll, wonder if it was placed there deliberately to make me think the chicken is real
[12:15] <voidspace> I need to install a newer version of netatalk than available for natty
[12:15] <oimon> thanks for the tweetmention popey :)
[12:15] <voidspace> there is a ppa with it here
[12:15] <popey> np :D
[12:15] <voidspace> https://launchpad.net/~bradya/+archive/netatalk/+packages
[12:16] <voidspace> how do I install from there?
[12:16] <daubers> ewww, netatalk
[12:16]  * daubers runs
[12:16] <voidspace> daubers: hah
[12:16] <daubers> voidspace: I suspect others can guide you through ppa stuff :)
[12:16] <voidspace> daubers: only way to setup a timemachine volume on my server as far as I know
[12:16] <voidspace> daubers: but thanks
[12:18] <voidspace> also anyone want to help me setup LVM on my software raid array?
[12:28] <popey> voidspace: http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
[12:29] <voidspace> :-)
[12:34]  * daubers wonders if he can bully his boss out of a couple of tickets to pycon :)
[12:36] <voidspace> daubers: who do you work for?
[12:36] <voidspace> daubers: see if you can bully them for sponsorship too...
[12:36] <daubers> voidspace: Unlikely that
[12:36] <daubers> voidspace: Only 8 of us in the company
[12:37] <voidspace> :-)
[12:47] <voidspace> popey: the HP Proliant Microserver needs a cable to fit anything in the optical bay drive - it seems to require a sata cable for the drive, but provides power via an IDE power socket
[12:47] <voidspace> popey: is that right? so to fit an extra sata drive there I'd need a  sata cable without power plus an IDE to sata power converter
[12:48] <andylockran> voidspace: that sounds like it makes sense
[12:48] <voidspace> :-)
[12:49] <voidspace> still not sure *exactly* which cables to get
[12:50] <voidspace> although this one looks right: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wired--Up-SATA-Power-Adapter-Cable/dp/B000ITL1PG/
[12:50]  * AlanBell just ordered new broadband
[12:50] <AlanBell> fibre to the cabinet, 34 meg down, 2 meg up
[12:50] <andylockran> £pcm ?
[12:51] <AlanBell> £16.49
[12:51] <voidspace> nice
[12:51] <davmor2> voidspace: you could just go for an esata card with an internal port instead :)
[12:51] <voidspace> davmor2: there's an external esata port
[12:51] <AlanBell> should help get the oggcamp videos up to youtube
[12:51] <voidspace> davmor2: I could just run the cable back inside...
[12:54] <davmor2> voidspace: try it out cheaper that messing with conversion cables it'll either be fine or it won't work then it's only cost you time :)
[12:54] <voidspace> davmor2: the adaptor cable I just ordered cost me £0.87 including delivery...
[12:54] <StevenR> AlanBell: who's your ISP?
[12:54] <popey> ewwwwwww
[12:55] <popey> the microserver has a sata port on the mobo
[12:55] <popey> thats the one I use for connecting a drive in the optical bay
[12:55] <AlanBell> when I first got ADSL I went for a solid business sounding name that I could put through on expenses, they were called IC24
[12:55] <voidspace> popey: yeah, that's the one I'll use
[12:55] <AlanBell> a week later they rebranded to "madasafish - the friendly ISP"
[12:55] <StevenR> lol
[12:56] <voidspace> popey: I was kidding about using the external esata for the internal bay - that would be dumb...
[12:56] <davmor2> popey: I'm assuming there is more than one sata port on the mb I'm offering advice on the fact that sound like voidspace has filled them all
[12:56]  * StevenR has FTTC too (34-36 meg down, 1.6 meg up)
[12:56] <popey> I also have an esata card in one because the esata port on the microserver doesn't support port multipliers
[12:56] <popey> davmor2: there isnt
[12:56] <AlanBell> but now they seem to have merged with plusnet and my new account will be a plusnet account
[12:56] <popey> there is exactly one sata port on the mobo
[12:56] <voidspace> davmor2: nah, I filled the four standard drive bays - but the optical bay is still free
[12:57] <oimon> you could replace the optical bay with a card reader, and boot the OS from SD card :D
[12:57] <StevenR> AlanBell: good honest broadband from Yorkshire :)
[12:57] <voidspace> oimon: there's also an internal USB port so you can already do that if you want...
[12:57] <oimon> voidspace: oh, sweet
[12:57] <voidspace> oimon: some people do boot from flash drives...
[12:57] <oimon> voidspace: yes, cheap, low power and very replaceable
[12:57] <popey> yeah, the internal usb port is an interesting addition
[12:58] <voidspace> that thing has ports out the wazzoo
[12:58] <popey> hahah
[12:58] <popey> shame the esata doesnt do PM
[12:58] <oimon> the dell poweredge servers have one, and they used to sell servers with free esxi preinstalled on the usb stick
[12:59] <StevenR> oimon: some have an SD reader instead now :)
[12:59] <popey> only issue I have with my microserver is it spends a _lot_ of time in IO wait
[12:59]  * StevenR is considering a 4-bay SATA DAS thingy. 
[12:59] <popey> StevenR: I have an Edge10 one of them
[13:00] <popey> works really nicely
[13:00] <hamitron> DAS?
[13:00] <popey> box with disks in :D
[13:00] <StevenR> popey: yeah, http://www.maplin.co.uk/4-bay-terabox-esata-hdd-raid-enclosure-224358 is what I'm looking at (looks like the edge10, comes with an esata card, etc)
[13:00] <StevenR> hamitron: Direct Attach Storage
[13:01] <popey> thats the exact one I have :D
[13:01] <StevenR> popey: :D
[13:01] <hamitron> it certainly seems the quantity of data we have these days, is greater than the capacity of the average hdd
[13:01]  * StevenR has *only* 168GB left!
[13:02] <StevenR> (on the 1.4TB array I have for /home)
[13:02]  * hamitron shamefully checks space free on "C:\"
[13:02] <hamitron> ;)
[13:03]  * StevenR checks to see if hamitron weighs more or less than a duck ;)
[13:03] <hamitron> but I've decided I won't be putting loads of money into more storage
[13:03] <hamitron> just for my data hoarding tendencies
[13:04] <hamitron> gonna actually sort stuff
[13:04] <hamitron> :D
[13:04] <StevenR> I've got a couple of external disks that I need to clean up
[13:04] <popey> i have retired most of my external disks
[13:05] <StevenR> popey: A microserver isn't really that "micro" :)
[13:05] <popey> it is when you compare it to a "server"
[13:05] <StevenR> I suppose that's true
[13:05] <hamitron> the worst thing about a micro server....
[13:05] <popey> is you want one?
[13:05] <popey> enter the competition in the podcast and you might win one :D
[13:05] <hamitron> you get it to reduce clutter, and you end up running that AND the old server
[13:05] <hamitron> :/
[13:06] <hamitron> at least that is how things work out for me
[13:07] <hamitron> brb, got to move some sacks of plaster before 2:30
[13:07] <oimon> i wonder at what point it becomes more cost effective to buy a 500gb disk rather than using 4 80gb disks
[13:08] <popey> I'd say it's cost effective to buy big disks and stop worrying about it
[13:08] <popey> There's a great note from SAP about swap space, says something like "make swap space super huge because the cost of a consultant to diagnose memory issues is almost always higher than the cost of an extra disk"
[13:09] <directhex> swap is useless.
[13:09] <voidspace> on the other hand its cheaper to buy enough memory
[13:09] <popey> heh, not on these servers :D
[13:10] <directhex> the kernel never prioritizes things enough, so if you're touching swap, your system is too far gone to log in & fix it
[13:10] <popey> they have 128GB RAM and ~32GB swap
[13:10] <voidspace> if you have a memory leak then swap becomes a real nuisance
[13:10] <directhex> voidspace, exactly
[13:10] <popey> thats not my experience on large systems.
[13:10] <voidspace> but horses for courses
[13:10] <popey> yes, when it swaps a lot you end up in swap death
[13:10] <popey> but it is possible to swap a bit and not die
[13:11] <oimon> i used to have machines that permanently lived in swap because people ran too many processes on it
[13:11] <oimon> tightwad company that wouldn't buy RAM
[13:12] <popey> Mem:  132103176k total, 65934456k used, 66168720k free,   376112k buffers
[13:12] <popey> Swap: 33554424k total,        0k used, 33554424k free, 50951428k cached
[13:12] <popey> :D
[13:12] <oimon> popey: ever fancied getting a linux job? or the SAP money too good?
[13:12] <popey> that is a linux box :D
[13:13] <popey> ergo I am kinda doing a linux job :D
[13:13] <oimon> a real linux job :P
[13:13] <popey> hah, meow
[13:13] <oimon> there's no claws in that paw
[13:13] <oimon> just playing :D
[13:13] <MooDoo> saucer of milk, table 1 :)
[13:13] <oimon> not sure i'd survive working in a non-linux world now
[13:13] <oimon> would make my brain explode
[13:14] <popey> I'm probably not skilled in linuxy stuff enough to do a linux job
[13:14] <popey> I do spend all day doing linuxy stuff tho
[13:15] <popey> debugging other peoples rubbish shell scripts for example :D
[13:15] <directhex> oimon, i'd need a BIG suitcase of money to not work in linux
[13:15] <oimon> money to pay for the medical bills though
[13:16] <oimon> i get a certain knot in my stomach when windows does its thing
[13:16] <directhex> but tbh i'm not skilled enough on windows to be a windows sysadmin
[13:17] <popey> we have only one app on windows here
[13:17] <popey> and thats because the vendor only ships it on windows
[13:17] <popey> it's a silverlight / .net app ☹
[13:17] <oimon> sometimes you get pushed into it. i had to perform winadmin for a year in a bank when the contractor left. i was the solaris admin at the same time
[13:17] <popey> vast majority of stuff is on RHEL
[13:18]  * StevenR supports both windows and linux (centos/ubuntu) stuff at work. Spend much more time making windows do it's thing
[13:18] <oimon> i wish i was a better programmer, those guys have a better life than sysadmins
[13:19] <oimon> even though i'm a manager nowadays, i still consider myself an SA
[13:19] <davmor2> oimon: but you have more fun honest
[13:20] <oimon> hmmm.. i just had to perform a powerdown/powerup at the weekend :(
[13:20] <oimon> rewarding when you fix problems , but rather have the easier life tbh
[13:21] <oimon> when you SAN goes down and all your running VMs lose their disk, requiring fsck on every one, you want to have a little cry
[13:21] <Stockholm_Angel> hej
[13:22] <oimon> programmers can come in at 11am too ..probably not wife friendly though, which is why they all seem to be single ;)
[13:22] <Stockholm_Angel> Are flaggs at half mast?
[13:22] <Stockholm_Angel> sorry
[13:22] <Stockholm_Angel> wrong channel
[13:26] <oimon> tried out nautilus elementary the other day, seems like an improvement over regular nautilus
[13:27] <popey> have you seen nautilus in 11.10 ?
[13:27] <davmor2> popey: yes
[13:28] <gord> they took away all my precious buttons :(
[13:28] <directhex> buttons are for nerds
[13:28] <gord> i'm a nerd!
[13:28] <popey> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-q3FcVguT_-8/Tg3-9iTxpaI/AAAAAAAABDo/6JU75o4rFdY/s1600/2.png
[13:28] <StevenR> gord: gumdrop buttons?
[13:28] <oimon> time to get a 11.10 testing box
[13:28] <directhex> using keyboard shortcuts is much more user-friendly
[13:29] <gord> if i wanted to use keyboard shortcuts in my file manager i'd use a terminal :P
[13:29] <davmor2> gord: I hope the devs fix the zietgiest thing soon though most annoying :)
[13:30] <gord> Zeitgeist ting?
[13:30] <davmor2> gord: just use mc you know you prefer it ;)
[13:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: That's horrible! Have you worked out how to change the main panel view or the sidebar view? How do you navigate "back" and "forward"
[13:30] <davmor2> gord: I get a bug report popup everytime I start up oneiric
[13:30] <oimon> i like the idea of zeitgeist, i've just never seen it working the way they say it should
[13:31] <gord> davmor2, ah right apport, yeah i tell that thing to shut up
[13:31] <gord>  TheOpenSourcerer back/forward are on the top right
[13:31] <gord> TheOpenSourcerer, you can choose between the bookmark thingy view or a treeview
[13:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> choose where?
[13:32] <gord> TheOpenSourcerer, in the menu i tink
[13:32] <gord> think
[13:32] <gord> h key has gone squishy =\
[13:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ah yes - forgot about the menus - not moved to unity. Still on 10:10
[13:33] <oimon> does oneiric nautilus have an option for the zoom button?
[13:33] <oimon> zoom = resize icons :P
[13:33] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: plus to go back an forward you use the breadcrumb trail
[13:34] <gord> oimon, pretty much all the options in the previous menus are still there
[13:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: That isn't really a breadcrumb is it? It just shows your linear position in the tree. Not if I have jumped between non-sequential directories... That;s what the back and forward buttons do. But I missed them on the far right.
[13:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> Having to use the menus seems daft... Means I have to drag the mouse to the top of the screen, click on the right menu, click on the option, change something then go back.
[13:37] <gord> well the menus are for one time things
[13:37] <gord> not something you are going to reach for often
[13:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> What like the missing buttons?
[13:39] <gord> what were the missing buttons? its been a while
[13:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> I frequently change views in nautilus.
[13:39] <ali1234> me toooooooo
[13:39] <oimon> icon view/list view
[13:39] <gord> ah, then you'll want to file a bug with gnome maybe, but well, you'll be fighting design
[13:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> oh - design seems to have forgotten function.
[13:40] <ali1234> it should really be in the right click menu though
[13:40] <ali1234> but i expect that will be removed soon too
[13:40] <oimon> it's prob under view->
[13:41] <ali1234> you mean int he menu that's been hidden away, and will soon be removed also?
[13:41] <gord> the menu won't be removed
[13:41] <gord> why would you say that?
[13:41] <ali1234> because i read it on sabdfl blog
[13:41] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: no they haven't this is the dummy's guide to computing they are going from, advanced users only need to know how to open emacs right?
[13:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> vi FTW!
[13:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> wq!
[13:42] <oimon> ZZ
[13:43] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer has left the room
[13:43] <oimon> sadbfl has started writing realllly long blog posts
[13:44] <gord> huh, tere is a vim irc client. of course
[13:44] <directhex> gord, pfft, emacs is a  much better irc client than vim
[13:45] <davmor2> yay! I've start another vim vs emacs flame war :D
[13:46] <oimon> not long till godwins law is invoked
[13:46] <voidspace> I'd rather crawl over broken glass than use either :-)
[13:46] <voidspace> you know who else used vim and emacs - hitler!
[13:47] <oimon> nobody uses both...
[13:47] <voidspace> nobody should use either
[13:47] <voidspace> but nobody isn't around to answer for himself
[13:47] <voidspace> so we shouldn't talk about him behind his back
[13:47] <stuphi> vi rules!
[13:48] <oimon> rules! [new file]
[13:48] <stuphi> :-)
[13:50] <oimon> why did adobe call their latest version of adobe reader version X?
[13:50] <directhex> oimon, to sound cool.
[13:50] <directhex> see also: megaman x, mac os x
[13:51] <jpds> Xorg.
[13:51] <oimon> shame it's just a bloated pdf reader
[13:51] <oimon> Xcrement
[13:54] <ali1234> damn i can't find the comment
[13:54] <ali1234> it basically said "we know global menu sucks but it's ok because we're trying to kill the menu entirely anyway"
[14:00] <ali1234> oh here we go: "Many modern applications are doing without a menu altogether, so in our  view, this is a step towards the future, and it will encourage  application developers to think about their interfaces and make them  more usable by design rather than depending on the crutch of a menu."
[14:00] <ali1234> in otherwords, it's ok that global menu sucks, because we don't want developers to use menus at all
[14:01] <MooDoo> hi all, how was the books and butties trip yesterday?
[14:01] <gord> thats not what that says at all
[14:02] <ali1234> sadly i cannot find a direct citation, just this random post on ayatana mailing list: https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg04830.html
[14:03] <ali1234> "Many modern applications are doing without a menu altogether, so in our  view, this is a step towards the future" -> in the future, applications won't have menus
[14:04] <hamitron> simple and less functionality to confuse the dumb user
[14:04] <ali1234> so the justification for global menu is not that it is better than what we had before, it's that, in the future, applications won't have menus at all
[14:04] <hamitron> ;)
[14:05] <hamitron> no more "what does this button do?"
[14:05] <hamitron> :-o
[14:05] <gord> no, you just keep injecting your own words and spin on that
[14:05] <ali1234> fine, what do *you* think it means?
[14:06] <gord> i think it pretty much speaks for itself
[14:06] <ali1234> me too actually
[14:06] <ali1234> odd that
[14:06] <gord> mark thinks that good design is better than putting lots of options in menus
[14:07] <gord> good design that solves the issue that the option in a menu is preferential to just dumping an option in a menu, but thats a lot of good design needed so menus are not going away any time soon
[14:08] <hamitron> I was thinking last night, why do we continue to use square windows/desktops?
[14:09] <ali1234> cos our monitors are square, lol
[14:09] <hamitron> a round monitor would be cool
[14:09] <hamitron> ;/
[14:09] <ali1234> you can't tile circles
[14:09] <ali1234> = bad use of space
[14:09] <hamitron> I think I'd maybe had too much booze or something
[14:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> hexagons are cool.
[14:09] <hamitron> but it made sense at the time
[14:09] <ali1234> yes, yes they are
[14:10] <hamitron> I like circles!
[14:10] <voidspace> so I've created a raid 5 array using mdadm and it seems to be working fine
[14:10] <hamitron> my visions was a round screen, with a square app that morphed into it
[14:10] <hamitron> with rounded off display with buttons
[14:11] <voidspace> but "fdisk -l" reports that the raid array, and the underlying disks, don't have valid partition tables
[14:11] <voidspace> is that likely to cause any problems?
[14:11] <popey> voidspace: pastebin?
[14:12] <ali1234> gord: so at best he's saying "i don't like menus, but i don't have a better idea, so i'm hiding the menus to force people to think of something better"
[14:12] <voidspace> popey: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/446040/
[14:12] <gord> ali1234, no, there you go again injecting your own words
[14:13] <popey> voidspace: what does /proc/mdstat contain?
[14:13] <hamitron> I get the feeling it is something a bit different, targeting someone other than the traditional thinking PC user
[14:14] <ali1234> gord: so which part don't you agree with? that he doesn't like menus? or that he doesn't have a better idea? or that the justification for global menu is to force people to do something better?
[14:15] <voidspace> popey: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/446043/
[14:15] <popey> voidspace: looks right
[14:15] <popey> i create partitions and then raid them, rather than raid the whole raw disk
[14:15] <popey> but i guess it makes little difference
[14:16] <popey> a few lost sectors for me :D
[14:16] <voidspace> popey: cool - I'm going to partition it with fdisk now
[14:16] <popey> what are you going to partition?
[14:16] <voidspace> popey: partitioning all the disks and then making multiple arrays seems like more work
[14:16] <voidspace> popey: /dev/md0
[14:16] <popey> right
[14:16] <popey> yeah, it is :D
[14:16] <popey> i do it out of habit.
[14:17] <hamitron> popey: your way is fast for RAID 0?
[14:17] <popey> dunno
[14:17] <hamitron> me neither ;)
[14:17] <popey> heh
[14:18] <hamitron> just sort of like the idea, so could have different OS setup differently
[14:18] <hamitron> overcomplicate my setup so it will break.... giving me something to moan about ofc
[14:18] <popey> ofc
[14:54] <AlanBell> google streetview in 3d is rather awesome
[14:56] <daubers> Has anyone written an ldap plugin for apt?
[14:58]  * daubers is bored of changing passwords on half a dozen machines when new password time comes, and is considering a full ldap auth setup
[14:59] <popey> we use ldap for linux auth here
[14:59] <oimon> here too
[14:59] <daubers> I'd like to be able to use it like OD in osx
[15:00] <popey> works well, until one of the boxes gets your pam tally wedged and you cant ssh in
[15:00] <daubers> manage printers and whatnot too
[15:00] <daubers> does it not just default down to local?
[15:01] <oimon> printers manage themselves when you have a cups server
[15:01] <daubers> not if you add a new printer, then you need to go to each machine and make it work with that one or the wife complains....
[15:02] <oimon> linux clients?
[15:02] <daubers> oimon: mostly
[15:02] <oimon> cups server manages the printers, cups client on the workstation looks at cups server. no adding printers on workstations required
[15:04] <oimon> set the printers on the cups server as shared, and the cups client should be by default set to browse for printers on the network
[15:11] <gord> AlanBell, you can get google streetview in 3d?
[15:11] <AlanBell> red blue glasses
[15:11] <AlanBell> right click a streetview image and choose 3d view
[15:11] <gord> ah
[15:13] <gord> woo looking at myself, in google street view, in 3d!
[15:13] <gord> ... easily amused am i
[15:14] <wintellect> gord: link?
[15:16] <gord> wintellect, http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=nantwitch+road+crewe&hl=en&ll=53.089095,-2.437511&spn=0.003041,0.007988&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=24.651744,65.43457&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.08907,-2.437662&panoid=vCnkT-EecrTwkWjiR-XFHw&cbp=12,142.94,,0,24.06
[15:19] <popey> how did you find yourself on that?
[15:20] <popey> or did you see the car go past?
[15:21] <AlanBell> are there any open source licences that require you to publish the source code for changes if you do not distribute or make public the software (i.e. totally internal use, not tripping the AGPL clause)
[15:22] <wintellect> gord: as popey said - how did you find yourself?
[15:23] <gord> saw the car go past :) then months later as we got street view i cheked
[15:23] <gord> checked*
[15:25] <andyc> Hi all
[15:25] <popey> lo
[15:25] <andyc> Just wondering if anyone knows of a way to delay pulseaudio output by a set amount of time?
[15:25] <andyc> It probably sounds like a stupid idea
[15:26] <popey> jack can probably do that
[15:26] <andyc> But I have a sky subscription to watch the cricket, and I want the commentary to be TMS instead of the default commentary
[15:26] <andyc> But TMS is ever so slightly faster than the sky stream
[15:26] <andyc> Hmm I'll look into Jack
[15:26] <popey> ahhh, cunning
[15:27] <gord> is the commentary stream playable with mplayer or vlc?
[15:27] <gord> because you can delay those in application
[15:28] <andyc> It's via bbc iplayer - I believe it's realplayer
[15:28] <andyc> Or used to be last time I had trouble with it
[15:28] <popey> i suspect its flash
[15:28] <popey> all bbc streams switched to rtmp iirc
[15:28] <andyc> OK
[15:29] <andyc> Actually I might be able to find an mms link for radio5
[15:59] <DJones> I suspect the sound & video would go out of sync fairly regularly though, all it would take is a change in the delay in the picture or sound and it would throw things out regardless
[16:01] <popey> i like the added 30 min delay of your comment DJones
[16:01] <DJones> :), time delay, it went via china though
[16:01] <BigRedS> haha
[16:02] <DJones> Its like my father in laws driving, lets go from A to B (but we'll go via C, D & E just because he likes the road better)
[16:02] <BigRedS> that's the best way to drive
[16:03] <BigRedS> assuming there's time...
[16:03] <DJones> He does it even whenever there isn't time
[16:03] <BigRedS> oh
[16:03] <BigRedS> that's less ideal
[16:04] <DJones> Yup
[16:38] <livingdaylight> I'd like to ask what the consensus opinion is here on xbox vs wii as we aer looking to buy one or another console. Are they both good and bad or is there a clear overall winner, if one had to get only one of them. Yes, it would be nice to get every video console out there, but that clearly isnto possible for us. Thanks!
[17:22] <AlanBell> small kids like the wii
[17:22] <AlanBell> it has more cartoonish games and the controller works quite well
[17:23] <AlanBell> and you can get an infrared pen and make a wiimote whiteboard
[17:23] <AlanBell> or do other messing about by pairing the controller over bluetooth
[17:23]  * BigRedS quite likes the wii...
[17:24] <BigRedS> it's more 'fun', but less serious-gamey
[17:31] <daubers> lo
[17:32] <dutchie> hi daubers
[17:38] <jmartin> hi
[17:39] <brobostigon> evening jmartin
[17:50] <AlanBell> !ping
[17:50] <brobostigon> :)
[17:51] <brobostigon> marvin the paranoid android, hhgttg douglas adams,
[17:53] <AlanBell> well I was going to get round to rebooting that machine anyway
[17:53] <brobostigon> lol
[17:53] <brobostigon> :)
[17:53] <brobostigon> hmm
[17:55] <ali1234> popey: that free wifi thing is strange to me
[17:55] <ali1234> all the settings for windows are the defaults
[17:55] <ali1234> they could have listed almost identical steps for mac, but they didn't
[17:57] <ali1234> the most likely explanation for this is simply that windows users are more likely to have a work laptop that's been screwed over by the local NT policy setting weird none-default settings for everything
[17:57] <ali1234> like, who has dhcp off by default on new connections?
[17:57] <AlanBell> there is an assumption that non windows users know what they are doing
[17:57] <ali1234> only insane NT admins
[17:57] <ali1234> no, there is more of an assumption that mac users won't have touched any of the defaults
[17:58] <AlanBell> when I was ordering new broadband today I was asked if I needed new virus software, told them I don't have windows and he said "oh, you will be fine then"
[17:59] <ali1234> i would guess the guide started off with almost identical steps for both
[18:00] <ali1234> and then windows users with work laptops complained, so they added stuff to it
[18:03] <gord> hehe, new virus software. no thanks!
[18:10] <davmor2> AlanBell: I went into currys digital to get my new laptop they tried selling me and extended warranty, I sadi no 8 times to that, so they changed tack, you'll want this AV and case for £50 though, nope as soon as I get it home I'm installing Ubuntu Linux, right but you'll want this to protect windows, I said no thanks
[18:13] <gord> oh wow currys still exists?
[18:13] <gord> i replaced them with amazon years back
[18:17] <directhex> gord: dixons became currys.digital, to replace their terrible reputation
[18:18] <ali1234> i didn't know currys and dixons had independent reputations
[18:21] <davmor2> gord: I only noticed cause the laptop was in the window as we walked passed and it matched the spec of the one from amazon and was £10 cheaper :)
[18:27] <Daviey> davmor2: wait, what.. you bought electrical equipment in person?
[18:27] <Daviey> @lart davmor2
[18:27] <davmor2> Daviey: yeap
[18:28] <davmor2> Daviey: £10 cheaper was the reason for it :)
[18:29] <Daviey> fair enough
[18:40] <livingdaylight> thanks for getting back to me on the games question. I was in 'Game' shop on the highstreet, yesterday and one thing I noticed was that most games were cross console. they had versions for xbox, wii and ps3 of the same game, as mario brothers for e.g. made me wonder whether they looked and played the same?
[18:41] <oracology> livingdaylight: apart from the controls being different, the storyline and objectives would be the same of course, but the graphics do differ.
[18:41] <popey> bug 816035 is interesting
[18:44] <livingdaylight> oracology: cheers, siggnificantly, I wonder? or just minor, in which case the cheaper console would seem the right solution. I need to go somewhere where I can see them all side by side and compare and contrast them
[18:45] <Daviey> popey: I can't see that being fixed.
[18:45] <popey> odd isnt it?
[18:45] <popey> chipset problem perhaps?
[18:46] <Daviey> Yeah.. i've noticed my boot on oneiric with mbp is much slower than natty.
[19:17]  * popey /57
[19:17] <popey> bah
[19:35] <diplo> Evening all
[19:35] <brobostigon> evening diplo
[20:05] <HazRPG> evening all
[20:06] <brobostigon> good evening HazRPG :)
[20:06] <HazRPG> brobostigon: good evening to you to :)
[20:17] <HazRPG> urgh, why is the u1ms always so slow to transfer newly purchases songs to one's account
[20:17] <HazRPG> s/purchases/purchased/*
[20:20] <AlanBell> http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
[20:23] <HazRPG> AlanBell: woot
[20:23] <HazRPG> \o/
[20:23] <HazRPG> AlanBell: what versions you currently rocking on CD?
[20:25] <AlanBell> 11.04
[20:25] <AlanBell> yes, just updating the image
[20:25] <HazRPG> ah fair enough
[20:26] <HazRPG> here's an interesting question, has anyone managed to get use to 11.04 yet?
[20:26] <HazRPG> I'm still fearful the install it (I don't know why)
[20:26] <AlanBell> I picked up the bundle image and only just realised the bundle is 10.10 still http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=17
[20:26] <brobostigon> HazRPG: with gnome3+gnom,e-shell, yes.
[20:27] <HazRPG> brobostigon: is that combo working out well since release?
[20:27] <brobostigon> HazRPG: yes, mostly.
[20:27] <HazRPG> brobostigon: cos I recall you using it during the alpha/beta stages of both those
[20:27] <brobostigon> HazRPG: quite, and various hurdles.
[20:28] <popey> HazRPG: I use 11.04 daily
[20:28] <HazRPG> brobostigon: bet your looking forward to 11.10 then, since gnome3 shell should be in there :)
[20:28] <popey> gnome 3 already is in 11.10
[20:28] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i have a testing image on live usb,
[20:28] <HazRPG> popey: that's what I meant ^_^
[20:29] <HazRPG> I may have to try out 11.10
[20:30] <brobostigon> HazRPG: the best i have tried upto now, i would say is debian sid + aaptpinned with debian experimental, it breaks, but it is upto date, and is as stable and as pure, and i could ask for.
[20:31] <popey> gord: is 11.10 Unity 3D broken at the moment?
[20:31] <popey> I keep getting dumped into a 2D session
[20:32] <ali1234> surely it's more likely that the graphics driver is broken?
[20:32] <HazRPG> brobostigon: what's aaptpinned?
[20:32] <popey> possibly
[20:33] <ali1234> HazRPG: apt pinning is when you lock packages to specific versions
[20:33] <popey> ah yes
[20:33] <brobostigon> HazRPG: it is using several repos. and having balaence in apt. where and how it chooses package versions.
[20:33] <HazRPG> ah, that makes sense
[20:34] <HazRPG> well I just recently donated a core 2 duo machine, so I might turn that into a 11.04/11.10 test bed
[20:34] <popey> getting segfaults in unity_support_test
[20:34] <brobostigon> HazRPG: ie, i dont always want it to choose packages from experimental, the most unstable, how it is clever, if it needs pcackges from experimental to complete it does so.
[20:34] <HazRPG> s/recently/recently got/*
[20:36] <HazRPG> ali1234, brobostigon: I might have to try out apt pinning...
[20:36] <brobostigon> ie,i have told apt, to pull gnome-shell from experimental, and follow gnome-shell from experimental.
[20:36] <brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
[20:36] <HazRPG> since at the moment, I'm starting to mass add ppa's just to keep up-to-date...
[20:36] <brobostigon> and update from experimental.
[20:37] <brobostigon> HazRPG: you could use apt-pinning, and tell apt. where and to what degreee it chooses new packaged from those ppa's.
[20:39] <HazRPG> I think at some point I need to evaluate what I want in a development system...
[20:40] <HazRPG> since I like certain applications to always be always up-to-date (since new features, bug fixes, etc are always good!), but at the same time I don't want certain things to just randomly break
[20:40] <brobostigon> i choose unstable/sid as i figured, most of the debian based development version, will somehow be based on it.
[20:40] <brobostigon> and distro's based on debian.
[20:40] <HazRPG> true
[20:41] <HazRPG> I really wish I knew where ubuntu is trying to go at the moment, since I chose ubuntu years ago because it fit my style at the time
[20:44] <HazRPG> ali1234: hmm, what version are you currently rolling with anyways? Because iirc you mentioned you preferred gnome2's way of working too...
[20:44] <StevenR> popey: was it you with the edge10 DAS?
[20:44] <AlanBell> http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/ made a few updates, look OK now?
[20:44] <popey> StevenR: yes
[20:44] <HazRPG> AlanBell: looks good :)
[20:45] <StevenR> popey: what size drives do you use? Does the supplied esata card work ok with ubuntu?
[20:45] <HazRPG> AlanBell: although from a designer perspective, it would be nicer to have all 3 on the same line (cropped to fit on one line), but aside from that it looks really good :)
[20:45] <popey> StevenR: desktop size drives
[20:45] <popey> yes
[20:45] <StevenR> popey: ok.. what capacity drives do you use :)
[20:45] <popey> :D
[20:45] <popey> currently 200GB but have had 4x2TB in it
[20:45] <AlanBell> HazRPG: I will make them a bit smaller
[20:46] <ali1234> HazRPG: i use 11.04 and unity
[20:46] <StevenR> popey: did it see all of the 2TB drives? (maplin claim it can't... did you buy the terabox/maplin version?)
[20:46] <HazRPG> ali1234: How's that working out for ya?
[20:46] <ali1234> it's pretty horrible
[20:47] <popey> StevenR: I have an edge10 DAS, not from maplin, and it works fine with the supplied eSATA card
[20:47] <popey> no issues at all
[20:47] <StevenR> ok. (The maplin one isn't edge10 :S)
[20:47] <popey> it looks identical
[20:47] <popey> same case
[20:47] <StevenR> the edge10 one seems to have gone EOL
[20:48] <StevenR> yeah, *looks* identical, but with slightly different specs
[20:48] <HazRPG> AlanBell: Just had a fiddle with chrome inspect, and seems 245 (roughly) works well for putting all three on the same line
[20:49] <AlanBell> try that
[20:50] <AlanBell> I think that is exactly half the native size
[20:50] <HazRPG> AlanBell: the number I came up with was 245, 247 (maximum, cos any more and it rolls to the next line)
[20:51] <AlanBell> depending on screen/window size and whether you have unity
[20:51] <HazRPG> AlanBell: but either way, looks better now that its on one line ^_^
[20:51] <AlanBell> 225 is half of the 450 so should rescale better
[20:51] <HazRPG> true :)
[20:52] <AlanBell> and yes I could save bandwidth/peformance by a factor of 4 by rescaling in gimp, but I am hotlinking to the ubuntu store and I don't care
[20:52] <HazRPG> hehe
[20:54] <HazRPG> I think I prefer the server artwork the most :)
[20:54] <HazRPG> but that's mainly because I dislike len-flare based images
[20:54] <HazRPG> (which the others have)
[20:56] <HazRPG> AlanBell: I just noticed, the podcast logo that was folded in the top-right of the website wasn't put back in since the beta of the site... any reason why?
[20:57] <StevenR> popey: thanks for the info :)
[20:57] <popey> np
[20:58] <HazRPG> ooo, I have noticed that the homepage image changes each time you reload, that's pretty swish :)
[20:59] <popey> StevenR: any other info you need lemme know
[20:59] <popey> StevenR: whats the product number on maplin?
[21:01] <StevenR> popey: 	
[21:01] <StevenR> CFI-B4043ER
[21:01] <StevenR> bah.
[21:01] <popey> that doesnt look like a maplin code
[21:01] <AlanBell> HazRPG: good point, it was removed because there was no active podcast season and they were rebranding, but they did that, so maybe popey would like some kind of promenent podcast link-love againg
[21:02] <popey> AlanBell: there is a banner available
[21:02] <StevenR> popey: the maplin code is A84HW
[21:02] <StevenR> (sorry, thought you meant manuf code)
[21:03] <popey> ta
[21:03] <HazRPG> AlanBell: Ah, yeah I remember that, I just wondered why it wasn't added back when season 4 started ^_^
[21:04] <AlanBell> Daviey: you coming to oggcamp?
[21:05]  * AlanBell fails to find the uupc banner
[21:05] <Daviey> AlanBell: should be!
[21:05] <AlanBell> can you bring the tablecloth?
[21:05] <Daviey> it does clash with a birthday, making it a little tricky.
[21:05] <Daviey> AlanBell: ack
[21:05] <HazRPG> AlanBell: your not the only one ^_^
[21:06] <AlanBell> syn
[21:06] <popey> AlanBell: see tonys blog?
[21:06] <popey> used to be at the top of that
[21:06] <brobostigon> HazRPG: reminds me of something i need to ask, you offered to give me a lift down to farnham for oggcamp, will you be able to give a list back to banbury?
[21:06] <brobostigon> lift*
[21:07] <HazRPG> brobostigon: Hmm, depends on the state of my car
[21:07] <AlanBell> popey: ok, that is just the logo, but an oggcamp banner, also worth adding
[21:07] <brobostigon> HazRPG: state ?
[21:07] <HazRPG> brobostigon: going to take it in for a service tomorrow, since it the engine light just recently popped up... and I almost got stuck in on the A69
[21:08] <brobostigon> HazRPG: ah, i see, fingers crossed in that case.
[21:08] <HazRPG> brobostigon: but yeah, if all works out okay with the car... then sure thing ^_^
[21:09] <HazRPG> why banbury?
[21:09] <brobostigon> HazRPG: thank you. :)
[21:09] <brobostigon> HazRPG: that happens to be where i live.
[21:09] <HazRPG> brobostigon: ah, heh that would make sense... so guessing that's where I'm picking you up from too?
[21:10] <HazRPG> brobostigon: how many days of oggcamp you doing?
[21:10] <brobostigon> HazRPG: yes, :)
[21:10] <brobostigon> HazRPG: thank you. :)
[21:10] <HazRPG> brobostigon: np, :)
[21:10] <HazRPG> just wondered, cos oggcamp is 2 days isn't it?
[21:10] <HazRPG> haven't decided if I should do both or not yet
[21:11] <brobostigon> HazRPG: AlanBell has offered garden camping and facilities, which i thank him for.  so we can do either which fits best for you.
[21:12] <HazRPG> brobostigon: oh, cool!
[21:12] <HazRPG> \o/ camping!
[21:12] <brobostigon> HazRPG: yes. :)
[21:13]  * HazRPG pokes AlanBell for more info.
[21:13] <AlanBell> um, yeah
[21:13] <AlanBell> my garden
[21:13] <AlanBell> complete with chickens
[21:13] <brobostigon> food, :)
[21:14] <AlanBell> walking distance to the Maltings, BBQ and suchlike
[21:14] <mikeatvillage> fresh eggs for breakfast?
[21:14] <brobostigon> jerk chicken
[21:14] <AlanBell> not sure if there will be eggs tbh
[21:14] <AlanBell> I have one ropey old hen who would be a bit tough to eat and isn't laying
[21:15] <AlanBell> and on wednesday I am getting probably 4 new chicks
[21:15] <mikeatvillage> poultry market?
[21:15] <AlanBell> they won't lay for another month or so probably
[21:15] <HazRPG> AlanBell: Ah right cool.
[21:15] <brobostigon> ah, i see.
[21:15] <AlanBell> might just about be starting to lay by oggcamp
[21:15] <HazRPG> AlanBell: Room for a +1?
[21:16] <AlanBell> sure, I have plenty of room for more tents
[21:16] <HazRPG> woot \o/
[21:16] <HazRPG> AlanBell: Much thanks. :)
[21:17] <AlanBell> the chicks are coming from birdworld, they have a kind of petting zoo/farm thing
[21:18] <HazRPG> AlanBell: The eggs will be small when they first start laying though, won't they?
[21:18] <AlanBell> a bit small, yes
[21:18] <AlanBell> might get a bantam too
[21:19] <HazRPG> AlanBell: I know someone who recently bought some chicks/chicken. And so far they've had a couple of dozen eggs, but majority of them are small.
[21:19]  * brobostigon cant do eggs due to his allergies, so thus has no interest.
[21:19] <HazRPG> brobostigon: ouch :( *hugs*
[21:19] <brobostigon> HazRPG: :( *hugs*
[21:19] <mikeatvillage> sorry to hear that brobostigon
[21:20] <HazRPG> brobostigon: if it helps, I don't do bacon... so english breakfast is always a bit plain for me ^_^
[21:20] <brobostigon> mikeatvillage: *hugs*
[21:20] <brobostigon> HazRPG: maybe, yes, quite, although a good sausage, does replace abit.
[21:21] <HazRPG> AlanBell: aww, bantams are cute
[21:21] <mikeatvillage> my chickens seem to have stopped laying... or they've decided to lay in the haybarn instead of the henhouse!
[21:21] <HazRPG> brobostigon: check sausages are my fav :)
[21:21] <HazRPG> chicken*
[21:22] <HazRPG> ironically, very hard to find in these parts though :(
[21:22] <brobostigon> HazRPG: yes. i have tried, interesting certainly. maybe we should be planning breakfast with AlanBell ?
[21:23] <HazRPG> brobostigon: maybe!
[21:24] <HazRPG> I should really put the details of oggcamp into my phone o.o
[21:24] <HazRPG> I keep forgetting when it is
[21:24] <dutchie> i should really unbook my oggcamp ticket
[21:24] <dutchie> :(
[21:25] <brobostigon> HazRPG: once you know if it will be more than a day, so i can plan overnight stuff, and we can confuirm with AlanBell, give me a shout.
[21:25] <HazRPG> noticed that the site still lets you register for tickets still, but the remaining bit shows nothing - so technically its sold out?
[21:25] <AlanBell> it is sold out, yes
[21:25] <HazRPG> ah
[21:25] <AlanBell> but really don't worry
[21:26] <HazRPG> oh well, I told my friends if they wanted to go they had to register fast
[21:26] <mikeatvillage> Tesco do chicken sausages. Anyway, I only popped in here for a quick look. Enjoy your camping, hope the weather stays fine for you.
[21:26] <AlanBell> thanks mikeatvillage
[21:27] <mikeatvillage> bye
[21:28] <HazRPG> mikeatvillage: Yeah, it's the only place that sells them here. And its only found in one column, and every time I go they're either sold out, or there's only 1 or 2 packs left. Always seems to be plenty of beef ones, but again only on one column.
[21:28] <HazRPG> brobostigon: agreed
[21:28] <HazRPG> brobostigon: I think I might as well do more than one day, it's a long trip down for me.
[21:29] <brobostigon> HazRPG: very true, for you, yes. ok, i will plan for over night stay then.
[21:30] <HazRPG> wow, just checked, 5hrs drive down!
[21:30] <brobostigon> ouch.
[21:30] <HazRPG> 5hrs 30mins in fact!
[21:30] <brobostigon> wow.
[21:31] <brobostigon> HazRPG: also calculate how i csn help with petrol money.
[21:32] <HazRPG> brobostigon: will do :)
[21:32] <brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
[21:36] <AlanBell> bother, broke my /etc/groups file and can't sudo
[21:36] <AlanBell> bother, or shut down cleanly
[21:37] <AlanBell> bah
[21:37] <brobostigon> :(
[21:39] <dutchie> AlanBell: vigrp
[21:40] <mgdm> dutchie: only useful if he can sudo
[21:40] <dutchie> bit late now, but for the future :)
[21:40] <dutchie> mgdm: aye
[21:40] <mgdm> but yes, I do recommend it
[21:40] <mgdm> and indeed visudo :)
[21:40] <dutchie> and vipw, for the full(?) set
[21:41] <mgdm> those are the 3 I'm aware of, at least
[21:45] <HazRPG> brobostigon: think it works out at about £10-12 each way from yours
[21:46] <brobostigon> HazRPG: ok, sounds good to me, :)
[21:49] <HazRPG> brobostigon: so roughly £20 both ways
[21:49] <HazRPG> which isn't too bad really
[21:51] <HazRPG> brobostigon: trying to work out when I should leave from mine
[21:52] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i agree, thank you.
[21:52] <HazRPG> brobostigon: since from mine to yours is about 4hrs, and then a further 1hr 30min from yours to oggcamp
[21:53] <brobostigon> HazRPG: yes, that is what i roughly worked out, from mine to there, if i drove it.
[21:54] <HazRPG> brobostigon: I've just been basing my prices using this: http://www.fuel-economy.co.uk/calc.shtml :)
[21:54] <HazRPG> and using the average mpg of my car
[21:58] <brobostigon> ok.
[22:27] <Andres-kain> good night.
[22:55] <HazRPG> Andres-kain: nite
[22:56] <Andres-kain> yeah.. 2-3hrs past my normal bedtime: going wild!
[23:00]  * Andres-kain learning?
[23:00]  * Andres-kain nods
[23:01] <Andres-kain> !pastebin
[23:28] <voidspace> how do I install a package from a specific ppa?
[23:28]  * voidspace goes to try google
[23:29] <voidspace> ah, add-apt-repository
[23:30] <voidspace> so what's the actual ppa url from this launchpad "page"?
[23:30] <voidspace> https://launchpad.net/~bradya/+archive/netatalk/+packages