[09:29] http://www.webupd8.org/2011/07/lubuntu-1110-default-theme-ozone2-gets.html [09:30] this is frickin crazy, why is lubuntu going for the same look as xubuntu, just one cycle later?? [13:37] * charlie-tca sighs [13:37] Alternate images for Ubuntu and Xubuntu will not work in VBox today [13:38] everything is oversized anyway =] [13:39] Makes it that much harder to use cd-r [13:39] will burn a dvd and try it on hardware [13:40] solitaire is broken in Oneiric, too [13:41] omg! how can we live without it [13:42] re: some discussion on mailing list, a draft: http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/web_banners/microbutton_80x15.png [13:43] The text is blurring here, but I like the design. [13:43] blurring? are you sure you don't have a zoom on [13:44] it's pixel-perfect text here... [13:44] I always have text zooming on, does that mean I have to put up with blurred graphics? [13:45] with firefox, i think that might be the case [13:46] there is NO antialiasing in the font, it should be pixel-by-pixel perfect, as ochosi said [13:46] Then the button is crap [13:46] ERR [13:46] no [13:47] I don't have to have blurred buttons on most websites. [13:47] it is not supposed to be streched really [13:47] There is a difference between zoom all and zoom text-only [13:47] If zoom text-only causes a graphic button to blur, it is a bad design [13:47] there is something wrong with your browser, or your settings. [13:48] this has absolutely nothing to do with the button design [13:48] Okay, sorry, I don't think the button is okay afterall. It is blurred [13:49] there is something wrong with how the browser renders it [13:50] maybe it would work if it was inside an -tag, not loaded directly [13:50] the button is *not* blurry. [13:50] If I have to change my settings to see it properly, it is a bad design [13:50] gosh! [13:50] http://gamelab.uta.fi/wordpress/wp-content/themes/freshy2/images/valid_xhtml11_80x15_2.png [13:50] is this button blurry? [13:51] 404 error [13:52] okay, can you give me a screenshot of the blurry button then? [13:53] if you zoom in firefox, the button definitely goes blurry. that's because the image is 80x15, and it's not meant for strecthing. firefox probably does not know how to handle images that are loaded directly (vs. -tag) [13:55] as addressed in http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/web_banners/microbutton_80x15.html, where the image is loaded with the -tah [13:55] *tag [13:55] Here it is - http://imagebin.org/164775 [13:55] that button is *not* blurred. [13:55] the mousehead is, but it's because the image is 15px tall, and there is no way to get a good-looking mouse without antialiasing in that size. [13:56] so, my eyes are blurring again? [13:56] the text is pixel-perfect. [13:56] probably [13:56] Thank you. I appologize then. [13:56] no problem. good to have it sorted [13:56] I will stop evaling stuff as blurred/hard to see/bad [13:57] at least for oneiric [13:57] I told google stuff is blurred in google + too [13:58] I assume it goes with the clouding vision, maybe [13:58] mr_pouit: hardware fails to install alternate images too [13:58] ugh, i need to go now [13:58] wife is waiting @city [13:58] see you later [13:59] but at least it isn't only us. Must be something Ubuntu did again [14:08] ochosi: take note. My vision is bad again, be best not to have me looking at the theme. [14:09] and if I do, kind of ignore it, I guess. [14:25] charlie-tca: ok, thanks for the heads-up [14:25] on the technical side: i just added support for compiz/metacity in bluebird as well [14:25] Thank knome, he went through the misery of finding it [14:26] hmm, i see [14:26] anyway, sorry to hear that [14:27] heh, it is my regular 18 month or so cycle, I think [14:28] Alternate images are causing a kernel panic right after booting the image [18:14] Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 45 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings [18:26] I'm about sure I can't make it [18:37] I have an appointment at that time, but if I could get feedback to the questions I posed in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2011-July/007858.html that'd be great [18:37] also I'm working on beardygnome's second email too, should have a response tonight [18:38] pretty much just the first bit of the email, and it is "Xubuntu session" right? [18:40] We offer both Xubuntu and Xfce sessions [18:41] A user should always choose Xubuntu session, unless they want the other [18:41] Xubuntu is a community developed, Ubuntu Linux-based operating system [18:41] is a yes [18:43] and as for the blog/news/xfce news, I do not think we should repeat anything from the planet, but maybe we should be offering what is on Xfce news feed, it really is not a busy feed, as far as I know, mostly it is about the latest versions of modules when they are released. [18:43] However, gnome feed is not repeated for Ubuntu, and maybe we should follow their lead? [18:44] Just throw a pointer up now and again that xfce news is available for anyone to read? [18:45] pleia2: maybe better wording for the above would be : [18:45] Xubuntu is a community developed, Ubuntu-based linux operating system. [18:46] +1 [18:46] * micahg would capitalize Linux as well since it's a proper noun [18:46] err [18:46] ?? [18:46] it depends on usage [18:47] Linux is the kernel, is a proper noun, but linux is different from windows, is not [18:48] actually, I think Linux and Windows should be capitalized in that example, but I could be wrong [18:48] I will go with others, I don't know proper capitalization that well [18:48] linux is different from windows doesn't make any sense. [18:49] huh? Are they the same? [18:49] Other than pointing out something called linux isn't the stuff you have in the walls of your house. [18:49] Linux is the core of the operating system, windows is the operating system as it is popularly known [18:50] small-case windows has nothing to do with computing. [18:50] and windows is the core of the Windows Operating System, isn't it? [18:50] Then micahg would be correct, and both Linux and Windows should be caps? [18:51] IMHO, yes. [18:51] Yes, since both are names [18:51] I will go with others, I don't know proper capitalization that well [18:58] Are we ready for a meeting. ? [18:58] pleia2 and Unit193 will not be attending, as I understand it. [18:58] In a minute! [18:59] tick tock, tick tock [18:59] now? [19:00] #startmeeting [19:00] great! lost the meeting bot already [19:00] Welcome to the Xubuntu Community Meeting [19:01] We keep the agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings [19:01] woot :) [19:01] * Old business [19:01] * Team updates [19:01] * Packaging & Development [19:01] * Bug Triage & Testing [19:01] * Website & Marketing [19:01] * Artwork [19:01] * Documentation [19:02] * Announcements [19:02] * Governance structure [19:02] * Any Other Business [19:02] Reminder: please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing. If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait. [19:02] We do allow anyone to speak up, that wants to. [19:02] [TOPIC] Old Business [19:02] micahg to find what Ubuntu-desktop does with java in restricted-extras [19:02] micahg: any status? [19:02] charlie-tca: sent an e-mail, waiting on response [19:02] Thank you [19:03] start ML discussion on panels, reviews of current panels, launchers on panels, etc [19:03] ochosi: did we get any thing on the review? [19:04] === Team updates === [19:04] sry, was busy with other stuff, afaik the discussion/review hasn't really started [19:04] feature freeze is approaching fast [19:05] we need to do something if we are going to, right? [19:05] when is FF? [19:05] Aug 11 [19:05] plenty of time to do the discussion [19:05] micahg: maybe we can update gmusicbrowser? [19:05] ochosi: is there a new version? [19:05] (or at least set a deadline for it) [19:06] there are quite a few bugfixes, no new release in the strict sense [19:06] I would say if 4 weeks hasn't been enough time to get it started, three weeks is cutting things short [19:06] ochosi: is he planning a release any time soon? [19:06] ochosi, want to start the discussion on the ML today? i can give my comments right away [19:06] micahg: not sure, he's not planning releases, strictly speaking [19:07] knome: Why not send the email to get it started? [19:07] micahg: i think he's still trying to improve it to finally release 1.2 [19:07] charlie-tca: good idea [19:07] charlie-tca, i'm planning to do other things today, eg. more banners [19:07] awwh :) [19:07] micahg: but i guess i can talk to him to do a 1.1.8 release [19:08] ochosi: personally, I prefer releases to snapshots, but if there are sufficient fixes, I can find out how to make a tarball from th repo [19:09] micahg: actually github has a tarball-feature, so you can simply take it from there [19:10] Can we continue? [19:10] silence is not golden... [19:10] [TOPIC] === Team updates === [19:11] [TOPIC] ==== Packaging & Development ==== [19:11] mr_pouit or micahg ? [19:11] as you prefer :p [19:11] Go ahead, sir [19:11] ok [19:12] nothing much new again, uploaded a new xubuntu-default-settings to make some cleaning of gdm/natty specific hacks, and merged the new xfce4-indicator-plugin with transparency support [19:12] micahg wanted to investigate why evince is still on the daily builds, but I don't remember the result ;) [19:13] it's due to gnumeric [19:13] so, gnumeric can use epdfview, but the preview files aren't cleaned when you close epdfview, not sure if that's a deal breaker or not [19:14] What does that mean? Do you have to manually close the previews then? [19:14] They're stored in /tmp, right? [19:14] yep, they're in /tmp [19:14] Doesn't /tmp get cleaned on a restart? [19:15] Shouldn't be a problem, most people reboot often, right? [19:15] it's a potential privacy issue on a running machine [19:15] True. [19:15] even if they don't, does /tmp keep it forever? [19:15] charlie-tca: w/out a reboot, yes [19:15] Other things also get stored there, right? [19:16] yeah [19:16] mr_pouit: opinion? [19:16] I'm not comfortable asking for an alternate depends on epdfview w/out this being fixed [19:17] yeah [19:17] But wait, isn't most privileges in /tmp 600? [19:17] Then we keep evince? [19:17] s/isn't/aren't [19:17] astraljava: hmm, right, true, it is 600 on those files, so maybe not an issue [19:18] .. [19:18] If you are printing a private file, do you expect to not have traces left on the drive? [19:19] that's true, flash drive files would be impacted [19:19] I don't think I understand what is wrong with a copy left in /tmp vs a copy you stored on the drive before print preview was invoked? [19:19] so, I guess we either get this fixed so that epdfview acts like evince in this scenario or go back to evince [19:19] charlie-tca: the file might not be on the system at all [19:20] okay, let's revert to evince again, then. [19:20] sorry to bother, but why were we going for epdf again? [19:20] ochosi: 2-3MB CD space [19:20] we're 30MB oversized ATM [19:20] did we remove pinyin yet? [19:21] can't we just drop somrthing to get the space back? [19:21] Not that simple [19:21] like gimp? [19:21] beardygnome: I think that's what the discussion is all about. :) [19:21] * knome hides [19:22] knome: that's where i was headed :-) [19:22] people, PLEASE start the app comparison wiki page. [19:22] If ubuntu adds things, we get oversized, If they remove them, they don't always get removed from the Xubuntu image [19:22] Wait, Xubuntu actually ships gimp by default? [19:22] yes, astraljava [19:22] don't waste time on loads of irrelevant emails [19:22] We never had the space issue Ubuntu did [19:22] mr_pouit: should we revert to ibus-pinyin from ibus-sunpinyin like UBuntu did? [19:23] iirc, we've had the space issue for a few releases already [19:23] micahg: I've absolutely no idea. I usually try to follow what ubuntu doesn on these matters ;-) [19:23] *does [19:23] well, they have a custom CD with ibus-sunpinyin for China I think [19:24] (there are several transitions in progress apparently, since we have two versions of libwebkit aboard) [19:25] we're stuck with them I think, the GTK3 version is used in yelp [19:25] Ubuntu has the same issue [19:26] Fortunately this isn't an LTS release. :) [19:26] How come alternate 64 is 30MB lighter then the other images? [19:26] I think the two transitions we're impacted by ATM are the SSL 1.0.0 and libnotify ones, libnotify will be done once transmission gets its build-deps MIRd and builds, libssl I haven't started on yet [19:27] charlie-tca: Only 13, and the same with both archs, isn't it? [19:27] no [19:28] alternate 64 is only 702MB, [19:28] Sorry, my bad. [19:28] alternate i386 is 715MB, and the desktop images are both over 730MB [19:28] not sure, we have some amd64 archive failures in main, could be those updates changed build-deps, idk offhand [19:28] s/archive/build/ [19:29] All debian installer images are causing kernel panics today, but they had been working [19:30] anything else on development and packaging? [19:31] summary: keep evince, find out why cd's are oversize [19:31] I think so at this point [19:32] and merged the new xfce4-indicator-plugin with transparency support [19:32] which is a big one, right? [19:32] [TOPIC] ==== Bug Triage & Testing ==== [19:33] We still don't have live sessions, even though the new x11-common is out [19:33] what else do we need to push to get things moving for us? [19:34] Testing is being done as often as we can, with the results at http://2tu.us/3dmh [19:34] mr_pouit: any bugs I can push people with to get the live session working now/ [19:34] ? [19:35] nope, it's still waiting on some support from gdm/lightdm [19:35] bugs in Oneiric are being tracked at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Bugs/OneiricOcelot , Please update it when you report a new bug [19:35] (and they are aware of the issues) [19:35] Do I need to push people, or will it happen before alpha3 next week? [19:36] sorry, I don't know when this'll happen :( [19:36] Any questions on bugs and testing? [19:37] might be something to bring up in the Desktop meeting AU edition [19:37] I keep bringing it up in the release meeting, I don't know the dekstop meeting? [19:37] Do you attend it? [19:38] I'm around for it sometimes (won't be tomorrow) [19:38] They do show the d-i bug 815962 fixed now [19:38] Launchpad bug 815962 in udev (Ubuntu) "oneiric d-i based images kernel panic on boot" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/815962 [19:38] Maybe we will have working images tomorrow [19:39] [TOPIC] ==== Website & Marketing ==== [19:40] Many thanks to beardygnome for his great website review! [19:40] np [19:40] glad to be of service :-) [19:40] As many times as I read it, I never realized how many times we referred to Ubuntu instead of Xubuntu [19:41] i thought that was deliberate thing on some of the spots [19:41] but i might remember wrong [19:41] knome: any update on the website? [19:41] on w&m: http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/web_banners/microbutton_80x15.png was created today, and more is to come [19:41] i'm hoping to get back on working on the actual website this month [19:41] knome: it is in some places, i only mentioned the ones that i thought weren't deliberate [19:41] beardygnome, okay, right :) [19:42] I owe knome an apology for this morning. I looked at the banner just referenced, and it was blurred. He has since pointed out my eyes are very blurred again [19:42] seems my vision is not good at this time [19:43] .. [19:44] charlie-tca, no problem [19:44] * charlie-tca hates not seeing good [19:45] anything else, knome ? [19:45] mmh... not at the moment, i think [19:45] Thank you for the update. It would be good to get the website moving again. [19:45] yes, definitely [19:45] Any questions for website? [19:46] to get the blog set up! [19:46] please [19:46] :) [19:46] [TOPIC] ==== Artwork ==== [19:46] ochosi: You get a turn, too [19:46] * knome rolls ochosi like a dice [19:46] is it a six? is it? [19:47] i'll keep that a secret, knome ;) [19:47] hehe [19:47] :) [19:47] ok, not many news, i added a metacity theme to bluebird [19:47] so basically the two themes we added since i started to contribute actively now work with compiz/metacity [19:48] apart from that i tested gtk3 again in my oneiric install [19:48] but everything is still moving too much in gtk3 and unico to really get down to coding the gtk3 theme [19:49] if someone feels like doing a theme for lightdm, please step forward :) [19:49] (albatross is underway of having a facelift!) [19:50] that's about it from my side :) [19:50] I don't know about a theme, but it is fairly easy to add the wallpaper from greybird to lightdm [19:50] it's css, so maybe we can use parts of the gtk3 theme when it's ready [19:50] Thank you, ochosi [19:50] not sure though [19:50] np [19:50] That would be great! [19:50] any questions for artwork? [19:51] Anyone that wants to work on the theme for lightdm for Xubuntu? [19:51] (a plymouth theme is also needed :) [19:51] yeah, that's a lot harder [19:51] mr_pouit: seriously? [19:51] oh, you mean if we don't want to keep the current one :) [19:51] We been needing one for a while now [19:52] does anyone here have experience with that? [19:52] \o [19:52] /o\ [19:52] * astraljava is not an artist by a long stretch [19:52] I would love to see the current wallpaper as a plymouth background too :) [19:52] charlie-tca, you don't want a new wallpaper for oneiric? :P [19:53] hehe [19:53] ochosi: my experience: take the ubuntu-logo plymouth script, change some random colors and the logo, and poof, here's xubuntu-logo plymouth theme [19:53] but that's not very great [19:53] If we have a good one come into view, we might grab it [19:53] mr_pouit, that's greater than alexander the great! [19:53] mr_pouit: how does that work? could we add animations? if yes, how? [19:53] but wouldn't it be great to see the current wallpaper a plymouth theme? [19:54] charlie-tca, we'll create something with ochosi, that's for sure. if not for oneiric, for the new greybird release then [19:54] ochosi: you can do that if you know the scripting language used [19:54] We could splash XUBUNTU across it even, it white or yellow [19:54] charlie-tca, the current, or maybe the forthcoming [19:54] mr_pouit: pfff. not sure i want to learn something so useful outside of plymouth [19:54] well definitely not yellow, that would remind me of sweden too much [19:54] but anyway, I'll have to update our plymouth script for oneiric, because the natty one doesn't display fsck progress [19:54] mr_pouit, what's the script language there? [19:54] that's right. [19:55] knome: plymouth specific apparently =] [19:55] Okay, I will go looking at plymouth, if I can figure out how to [19:55] mr_pouit, awwh, resembles... ? [19:56] It looks like C [19:56] somebody good with C? [19:56] madnick maybe? :) [19:56] I don't know any of those, so I should be good to go, huh? [19:56] Not good with animations however :) [19:56] well, we can get artists helping you [19:57] (ochosi) [19:57] * knome hides [19:57] I could look into stuff [19:57] great! [19:57] |o/ [19:57] madnick, seriously, ping me or ochosi when/if you need help with the artistic part [19:57] okay [19:57] [ACTION] madnick to look into plymouth theme, with help from knome and ochosi for animations [19:57] Thank you, madnick [19:58] :) [19:58] i don't think we need any fancy animations really, right? [19:58] right [19:58] just something to indicate progress [19:58] oh yes, i want a spinning wheel and a diamond and a unicorn that rides into the sunset! [19:58] ochosi, still? [19:58] See, and the wallpaper has the sunset! [19:59] haha [19:59] please remember mouse is our mascot, so the unicorn must be riding a mouse, or the other way around!! [19:59] :) [19:59] and not on the horn, either ;) [19:59] haha [20:00] * ochosi jots everything down for the next xubuntu wallpaper draft [20:00] [TOPIC] === Announcements === [20:00] ochosi, gosh! ;) [20:00] let's get through this [20:00] * The next meeting will be on Sunday, 2011-07-31 at 22:00 UTC [20:00] * Important dates coming up: [20:01] * 11.10 Alpha 3: August 4, 2011 [20:01] * 11.10 FeatureFreeze : August 11, 2011 [20:01] * 11.10 Release Date: October 13, 2011 [20:01] * UDS-P will be in Orlando, Florida the week of October 31 - Nov 4. Please apply for sponsorship by August 24. [20:01] * UDS-P information at http://ubuntu-news.org/2011/07/15/ubuntu-developer-summit-sponsorship-now-open-2/ [20:01] anything else? [20:01] yeah [20:01] please start the image editor app comparison wiki page [20:02] [TOPIC] === Any Other Business === [20:02] even if we didn't change anything for oneiric, it will be useful at later time [20:02] image editor comparison should be started on the wiki [20:02] yes [20:02] i sent mail to the ML [20:02] stating the correct pagename and template name [20:02] to somebody to pick up [20:03] (it's a relatively low-hanging fruit, since others will help!) [20:03] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications [20:03] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Oneiric/DefaultImageEditor [20:03] I don't think we are going to drop gimp, but you never know, huh? [20:03] (not yet created) [20:03] i'm all for dropping it, if we find an easy to use, stable enough image editor [20:04] it is true that most of the normal users don't need the majority of gimp features [20:04] and i suppose gimp takes quite a lot of space [20:04] like I am not normal? [20:05] I would prefer to see software center dropped, personally [20:05] i don't know, but many people use gimp for resizing, flipping and cropping images, and gimp is a bit slow for that [20:05] but, yes, gimp is a huge space taker [20:05] charlie-tca: in favour of what? [20:05] it is easy enough to install gimp anyway (sudo apt-get install gimp!) [20:05] You can use Synaptic Package Manager [20:05] i prefer synaptic as well, if one needs a GUI [20:05] or even apt-get install ... [20:06] true, (i do myself) but i think software center is wasier for new users [20:06] but i think the SC is easier for new users [20:06] the general public is becoming quite used to "app stores" [20:06] charlie-tca, doesn't apt-get install need sudo? [20:06] I still believe new users belong in Ubuntu instead. [20:06] yeah, new people really love the software center, in my experience [20:06] * beardygnome hopes apple don't sue him [20:06] everything needs sudo, doesn't it? [20:07] the SC is not too large/bloaty/irrelevant anyway? [20:07] Does the "app store" part work for Xubuntu? [20:07] charlie-tca, nvm, thought you commented on sth else :) [20:08] charlie-tca: shouldn't it? [20:08] I open it every 6 months to test it, for the final candidate image tests [20:08] um, ubuntuone doesn't work for Xubuntu, the buy music parts don't work for Xubuntu, I haven't tested the buy apps now parts to see if they work outside of Ubuntu [20:09] charlie-tca: if they don't that should be a bug [20:09] Software Center is finely tuned to Ubuntu [20:09] micahg, agreed! [20:09] the packages should have appropriate dependencies [20:09] shouldn't be too hard to hide those [20:10] like the bug for ubuntuone? filed a long time back, with the comment: "as soon as Xubuntu writes the interface" ? [20:10] but I regress [20:10] charlie-tca, link? [20:10] Any other business? [20:10]