[02:39] <rww> dealing with it ^
[03:59] <rww> #ubuntu-hk currently has no humans in it and has had one line spoken in it in the last week. Objections to removing it from !cn?
[04:06] <nhandler> !cn
[04:06] <nhandler> rww: Go ahead
[04:07] <rww> !cn =~ s% 或 /join #ubuntu-hk%%
[04:15] <elky> you might want to figure out what 或 means and if it ought to be put back in between -cn and -tw
[04:17] <tonyyarusso> Google suggests "or".
[04:17] <rww> sssshhhh language is hard
[04:17] <rww> !cn =~ s%cn /%cn 或 /%
[04:17] <rww> (and yes, it's or. I remember the last time this factoid came up)
[04:22]  * nhandler really should fix up his vps so that he doesn't just see a bunch of ?s
[04:22] <rww> nhandler: Incidental offtopic note: I'm beating you on #idlerpg :P
[04:23] <nhandler> :)
[04:24] <rww> [#ubuntu] I am entirely unsurprised to note that littlebearz is a mIRC user with a bunch of scripts installed.
[04:24] <tonyyarusso> Are there mIRC users without a bunch of useless scripts installed?
[04:24] <rww> ah. once of which appears to be a DCC bot.
[04:25] <rww> tonyyarusso: friends don't let friends use mIRC :(
[04:25] <Corey> Indeed.
[06:17] <bazhang> truepurple was asking that repeatedly in another channel
[06:19] <rww> truepurple was another victory for +g
[06:19] <bazhang> I read that as g+
[06:27] <bazhang> ah the high dudgeon
[06:32] <bazhang> wine is installed by default?
[06:32] <rww> not that I'm aware of
[06:33] <bazhang> truepurple, hello
[06:33] <truepurple> bazhang: ?
[06:33] <bazhang> truepurple, this is where to discuss issues with channel moderation, etc
[06:34] <truepurple> How do i tell who is a mod?
[06:35] <truepurple> Verses who is just a bossy regular user?
[06:35] <bazhang> truepurple, not the issue
[06:35] <Myrtti> it doesnt matter
[06:35] <bazhang> you were going way offtopic
[06:35] <truepurple> It sure does
[06:35] <rww> again, /msg chanserv access #ubuntu list. If your client is unable to deal with notices, go ask your client's IRC channel why.
[06:35] <bazhang> #smuxi perhaps
[06:36] <rww> which has a whole seven people in it.
[06:36] <truepurple> I type in "/msg chanserv access #ubuntu list" as a command?
[06:36] <bazhang> truepurple, yes
[06:36] <truepurple> any channel?
[06:36] <bazhang> ?
[06:36] <rww> I know you're familiar with the concept of messages, you attempted to do it to me earlier.
[06:37] <truepurple> You could have said I wont talk to you here or something
[06:37] <truepurple> Rather then silence
[06:38] <rww> truepurple: My IRC session is set to not send me messages that are PMed to me unless they're from specific users. This is by design.
[06:38] <rww> and is entirely irrelevant to whyever you're here, I would guess
[06:38] <bazhang> he/she was asking who the "channel mods" were
[06:39] <bazhang> I suggested truepurple come here
[06:39] <truepurple> Is most of the people here mods?
[06:40] <bazhang> apart from the bots, yes
[06:40] <IdleOne> mods are called ops on irc
[06:40] <truepurple> Anyone with a + next to the name?
[06:40] <truepurple> k
[06:40] <bazhang> truepurple, at any rate, you were going offtopic, were asked to stop.
[06:40] <rww> #ubuntu-ops contains ops from all the core channels, not just #ubuntu.
[06:41] <bazhang> truepurple, hence the removal
[06:41] <truepurple> But if they are here with the + next to their name, they are ops somewhere?
[06:41] <bazhang> yeppers
[06:42] <truepurple> bazhang: So you are the reason my ubuntu tab just vanished, taking all its chat history with it?
[06:42] <bazhang> truepurple, not sure what you mean by that
[06:43] <rww> No, that would be me. If your client doesn't support logging either, you should probably give up and find a sane client.
[06:43] <truepurple> bazhang  "truepurple, hence the removal:
[06:43] <truepurple> What is logging?
[06:44] <rww> copying chat history to a file for later perusal
[06:44] <truepurple> Well this is the IRC client that was suggested to me when I asked in ubuntu some time ago, what client should I use
[06:44] <truepurple> I can copy/past chat history, if that is what you mean
[06:46] <truepurple> rww: Well knowing someones knowledge base can be integral to getting help on anything, without that information, its just another random opinion that may be right, or may be wrong, I might as well ask a crazy 8 ball
[06:47] <bazhang> truepurple, you asked about linux running better from the center of the hdd. you were answered there is no effect. you then asked for the qualifications, real-life experience of that fact.
[06:47] <truepurple> No, I asked what you base your answer on, what your level of expertise is etc
[06:48] <bazhang> truepurple, at that point, you were asked to please take the chat to #ubuntu-offtopic
[06:48] <truepurple> Like I said, its easy to answer, you could not know the first thing about the subject and say the same thing
[06:48] <bazhang> truepurple, lots of eyes on that channel.
[06:49] <truepurple> Well it is relevant to the ubuntu topic I was asking about, which would make it ontopic, besides which, I can not join ubuntu-beginners
[06:49] <bazhang> things that are clearly wrong are almost always called out as such
[06:49] <truepurple> bazang: I have asked many a basic question in ubuntu channel and had noone there having a clue
[06:50] <truepurple> bazang: so silence from the crowd (many of which are also others looking for help) says nothing
[06:50] <bazhang> truepurple, at any rate, the continued questioning of said expertise was clearly offtopic.
[06:51] <bazhang> truepurple, was there anything else you wished to discuss?
[06:52] <truepurple> bazhang: I disagree, so your saying if I wish to get help with ubuntu, sometimes I need to split half that conversation into another channel?
[06:53] <truepurple> What purpose does this surve?
[06:53] <bazhang> truepurple, not sure what you mean
[06:53] <truepurple> serve
[06:53] <bazhang> direct ubuntu support in #ubuntu
[06:53] <bazhang> chit chat in #ubuntu-offtopic
[06:53] <truepurple> Asking someones level of expertise is a matter of getting ubuntu support, not of chit-chat
[06:54] <bazhang> truepurple, the channel would grind to a standstill if that were the standard policy
[06:57] <truepurple> If people were allowed to ask your level of expertise, the channel would grind to a standstill? I see no bases in that belief
[06:58] <IdleOne> #ubuntu uses peer review to insure the advice we get/receive is correct. had rww given you the wrong answer 95% of the time someone would have said something. So the question here is were you off topic or not? in the opinion of two active ops at the time you were.
[06:58] <Tm_T> as "level of expertise" is vague at best, I don't see how it would be a short, productive discussion in our support channels
[06:59] <truepurple> rww: Anyway, I can not ask in offtopic, even though it is not a matter of chit-chat, its not working for me to join that channel. I can't ask you in PM, because for what ever crazy reason your not accepting them. Would you please answer here?
[07:00] <IdleOne> truepurple: if you feel the removal was unjust or abusive...
[07:00] <IdleOne> !appeals
[07:00] <rww> If I tell you I have a bachelors degree in channel opping, a masters degree in management, and more LPIC certifications than I can count, will you listen to me when I tell you to stop being monotonous?
[07:00] <IdleOne> I see no reason to continue this discussion.
[07:00] <rww> Neither do I.
[07:01] <truepurple> IdleOne: I have asked questions where noone knew the answer to my question, even though my question was not very advanced. So not always is there someone knowledgable about that same subject
[07:01] <truepurple> And if somoene doesn't know, they say nothing right?
[07:01] <IdleOne> truepurple: people who answer questions in #ubuntu usually do it when they know the answer.
[07:01] <truepurple> IdleOne: So to say that one persons statement is correct because noone disagreed at that time is not confirmation
[07:02] <IdleOne> truepurple: What qualifies you to decide that rww didn't lie to you when he gives you his resume?
[07:02] <IdleOne> you are wasting our time with this nonsense.
[07:02] <IdleOne> good night.
[07:03] <truepurple> IdleOne: I would give rww the benefit of the doubt as far as any qualifification claims
[07:03] <rww> You don't appear to be.
[07:03] <truepurple> rww: How can I when you didn't give any in the first place?
[07:03] <truepurple> *qualification
[07:03] <IdleOne> ok so give him the same benefit and assume he gave you the right answer.
[07:04] <bazhang> which he did
[07:04] <truepurple> IdleOne: That is too much of a leap
[07:04] <bazhang> thanks elky
[07:05] <IdleOne> I wanted to but didn't want to be accused of abusing
[07:05] <elky> oh, you'll always be accused of that just by virtue of breathing.
[07:05] <elky> comes with the job.
[07:05] <bazhang> hehe
[07:06] <IdleOne> elky: yeah I know but I rather it be a council member then me :P
[07:06] <IdleOne> than*
[07:06] <rww> Yes, because elky is less likely to be accused of abuse than you.
[07:06] <rww> :P
[07:07] <IdleOne> that isn't what I meant
[07:07] <IdleOne> I am just happy it isn't me this time
[07:08] <Tm_T> hmmm, I think I have never been accused on abusing my demigod powers ):
[07:08] <Tm_T> ldunn: welcome with perfect timing, how can we help you? (;
[07:08] <elky> i seem to recall it happening in your absence.
[07:09] <ikonia> truepurple has done this stuff before, and been banned for it
[07:09] <rww> incidentally, I don't see any modes set on them in #ubuntu-beginners. Dunno why they think there are.
[07:10] <Tm_T> elky: you're intriguing me (:)
[07:10] <elky> Tm_T, i can't remember specificis
[07:10] <ikonia> elky: they are there as they where banned from #ubuntu at one point before
[07:11] <elky> eh?
[07:11] <ikonia> sorry, have I missunderstood the question
[07:12] <bazhang> ikonia, asking people's level of expertise to give basic answers
[07:12] <elky> ok, so i'm still this side of the line. cool.
[07:12] <bazhang> "does linux run better from the center of the hdd"
[07:12] <ikonia> bazhang: repeating the same question over and over and over, then asking you to backup your reasons with documentation or your CV
[07:12] <Tm_T> there's no line, just endless plane
[07:13] <bazhang> ikonia, then insisting that questioning the expertise is totally ON topic
[07:13] <ikonia> bazhang: and then cross-posting the same question in multple channel and trying to play people off against each other
[07:13] <bazhang> ikonia, yes, exactly, as it happened today
[07:13] <rww> I'm not sure why we're expending effort telling each other that the person we know was trolling was trolling :P
[07:13] <ikonia> I could understand him asking how do you know ? but then questioning beyond that, and asking for proof and then just repeating the same question over and over
[07:14] <bazhang> rww, I need your CV to answer that
[07:14] <ikonia> I don't know / think he is trolling
[07:14] <ikonia> I think he just expects the wrong things
[07:14] <rww> bazhang: Why does nobody believe me when I say I have a B.S. in Channel Operation :(
[07:16] <IdleOne> because the B.S. is BS
[08:08] <bazhang> * [KGB_plague] (~alsheeba@94.59.25.66): Abdulla Al Romaithi   wonder if thats lsheeba
[08:13] <bazhang> seems to be him, but odd that bt has zero listing of him
[08:15] <bazhang> Jul 23 15:59:19 <lsheeba>	cant believe u mute me i come with nicks of alsheeba , KGB_plague , Alhubaishy + Crozar , and u muted a person who helped the community for years with those simple questions thats arised in the channe
[12:36] <Pici> a few crazy questions in there today...
[12:40] <jpds> "how can i make my own dns and get the list of all the websites of the world?"
[12:40] <jpds> Wins.
[12:41] <bazhang> I thought removal of python was pretty interesting
[12:46] <Pici> jpds: that user is asking in a few other channels as well and still doesn't appear to have a clue :(
[12:47] <jpds> Pici: I think I have educated her in -server.
[12:52] <Pici> jpds: I see her saying nearly the same things in #dns still
[12:52] <Pici> (I joined there just to watch)
[14:08] <CarlFK> where is the op coc?
[14:09] <ikonia> which one ?
[14:09] <ikonia> I thought it was the same as the normal one
[14:09] <CarlFK> not http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct  but something else that is
[14:09] <ikonia> !canibeanop
[14:09] <ikonia> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/leadership-conduct
[14:09] <ikonia> that one ?
[14:09] <CarlFK> yes - thanks
[14:10] <CarlFK> PyCon organizers are looking for such text
[14:10] <ikonia> it's not a bad version
[14:11] <CarlFK> what I was looking for "Leaders make difficult choices but are careful to act in the best interests of their communities."
[14:12] <ikonia> I quite like the whole documents intent
[14:13] <Tm_T> intentions, pavements ];=
[15:29] <ikonia> thats what I was thinking of, thank you Pici
[15:30] <Pici> ikonia: too slow
[15:30]  * ikonia shamed
[15:31] <Pici> ikonia: your turn ;)
[15:31] <ikonia> ha
[15:32] <cjhard> uh hi
[15:32] <cjhard> am i in truble?
[15:33] <cjhard> hello?
[15:33] <cjhard> can u here me?
[15:33] <ikonia> hello cjhard
[15:33] <ikonia> thanks for joining
[15:33] <ikonia> just so you're clear I've muted you in #ubuntu so you can't talk
[15:33] <ikonia> yes we can see you speak in this channel
[15:33] <cjhard> ok kool
[15:33] <cjhard> y did u ban me if u dont mind me asking?
[15:33] <ikonia> cjhard: you've been asked to join this channel so I can explain why you've been muted in #ubuntu
[15:34] <ikonia> this way we can resolve the issue, get your mute removed and allow you to use the #ubuntu channel again
[15:34] <cjhard> i installed gentoo nd i wood lyk 2 noe if ubun2 is easier
[15:34] <cjhard> to use
[15:34] <ikonia> do you understand ?
[15:34] <cjhard> ok kool
[15:34] <cjhard> ues
[15:34] <cjhard> yes
[15:34] <ikonia> cjhard: ok - the first issue, is how you talk
[15:34] <cjhard> ???
[15:35] <ikonia> cjhard: we have a rule in the #ubuntu channel that you need to type / talk in clear English, that means no "U R using Gen2"
[15:35] <ikonia> that sort of thing
[15:35] <cjhard> wats rong with how i talk?
[15:35] <ikonia> it allows people of all English abilities to best understand you
[15:35] <cjhard> its clearly im speeking english
[15:35] <ikonia> no - it's not
[15:35] <cjhard> not lyk im speaking chinese lol
[15:35] <cjhard> wat language do u think im speeking?
[15:35] <ikonia> people have different levels of ability in speaking English due to the fact that #ubuntu is a global channel
[15:36] <cjhard> ni hao
[15:36] <cjhard> lol
[15:36] <ikonia> to help this - we ask everyone to speak in clear English, no text or shortened speak
[15:36] <ikonia> cjhard: do you understand that ?
[15:36] <cjhard> dats reely dere problem if dey dont understand how da natives talk
[15:36] <cjhard> dey shood get betta @ english
[15:36] <ikonia> cjhard: ok - if you don't stop talking in this silly way with me, I'll stop discussing it in here and just ban you
[15:37] <ikonia> cjhard: please start typing in clear English
[15:37] <ikonia> cjhard: do you understand the "speak in clear English" rule for #ubuntu I've just explained to you
[15:37] <cjhard> i dont think u shood discrimin8 on the way ppl speek
[15:37] <ikonia> ok - good bye
[15:37] <cjhard> just cos u dont lyk it
[15:37] <cjhard> dats called tirrany
[15:37] <cjhard> duh
[15:38] <ikonia> cjhard: please leave this channel now
[15:38] <cjhard> how wood u feel if ur goverment legislated good manners?
[15:38] <cjhard> wood u think dis wud be a good thing?
[15:38] <cjhard> no dis is a terrible thing ur doing
[15:38] <cjhard> under da guise of "doing it 4 minorities"
[15:39] <ikonia> cjhard: I've made the rule of the channel and the reasoning behind it quite clear, - you seem to want to ignore it, we are done. Please leave, now
[15:39] <ikonia> !ops
[15:39] <cjhard> u shood be ashamed of urself
[15:39] <cjhard> you sicken me
[15:39] <cjhard> what is ur country of origin?
[15:39] <cjhard> i will go dere
[15:39] <cjhard> and become a leader
[15:39] <cjhard> and legislate good manners
[15:40] <tsimpson> cjhard: come back when you are in a better mood to discuss your issue
[15:40] <cjhard> and jail ppl 4 not bowing 2 me in public
[15:40] <cjhard> cleerly ikonia is in a bad mood
[15:40] <cjhard> 2 b so rude 2 a guest
[15:40] <cjhard> and abuse his powers
[15:41] <tsimpson> cjhard: no, your typing is horrible, please fix it
[15:41] <cjhard> yeh clearly u dont liek how i type
[15:41] <cjhard> well i dont lyk ur attitude
[15:42] <cjhard> but if u came 2 a channe;
[15:42] <cjhard> channel
[15:42] <cjhard> dat i modded
[15:42] <cjhard> i wouldn't mute u cos of ur attitude
[15:42] <tsimpson> sorry, but I really can't talk to you when you type like that
[15:42] <cjhard> cos dats wrogn
[15:42] <cjhard> yes u can
[15:42] <cjhard> u noe exactly wat i'm saying
[15:42] <cjhard> But you just choose to be a pompous ass
[15:42] <tsimpson> are you intentionally trying to make it more difficult for people to read your messages?
[15:42] <cjhard> Because it makes you feel intellectually superior
[15:43]  * tsimpson wins
[15:43] <ikonia> gents, thank you
[17:21] <oCean> derp is banned right?
 in #u
[17:22] <Pici> dunno
[17:22] <oCean> BT is extremely slow on me, but I'm quite certain..
[17:25] <oCean> this one I think 42019, and then 42021
[19:01] <oCean> tsimpson: remember the fix/hack? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots/+bug/790908
[19:03] <tsimpson> oCean: if a mask doesn't have a '*' or a '?', it's considered a @mark
[19:04] <tsimpson> and it's definitely hack rather than fix
[19:04] <oCean> :)
[19:04] <oCean> that's why a mark for guest7218!*@* still results in a reminder
[19:04] <tsimpson> yep
[19:04] <LjL> tsimpson: i like the way you think
[19:04] <oCean> nvm that
[19:05] <tsimpson> marks are only really useful when the bot has the full mask anyway
[19:06] <tsimpson> (the bot is kind of smart about it, it'll check /whois and /whowas to find the mask)
[19:06] <oCean> the mask is in the actual comment :/
[19:06] <oCean> I forgot why
[19:06] <tsimpson> unfortunately, searching the BT seems not to search comments
[19:06] <oCean> Yes, I noticed that too :(
[19:07] <tsimpson> it's all kinds of hack+broken-ness
[19:07] <Pici> Adding another field for "isMark" would be a good solution.
[19:07] <tsimpson> Pici: maybe BT2 has such a feature ;)
[19:07] <Pici> maybe
[19:09] <tsimpson> anyway, the next BT is being planned, and it'll be better
[19:09] <tsimpson> as it can't be any worse than the current one...
[19:20] <rww> the current one exists, I consider that an important feature :P
[19:21]  * rww kids, writes even hackier perl to work around the things that annoy him about BT anyway