PythonPupHowdy.  Are there any Oneiric users here?  There are two things I have not found a way to do in Oneiric.  1.  Move buttons on windows back to the right side.  2. Fix Nautilus to show location entry.   There used to be gconf setting for both of these, but gconf is gone, essentially.07:13
PythonPupTop of the morning to you.07:16
hoovergood morning all07:27
* daubers is off to London shortly :(07:32
gordcan't for the life of me figure out how to enable dhcp hostname thingies on this new router08:08
TheOpenSourcererman - why hadn't I heard of OSSEC before? It sounds great: http://www.ossec.net/main/08:19
PythonPupI suppose you just have not been keeping in the right crowds.08:20
gordthat is neat08:25
diploTheOpenSourcerer, are you thinking of giving it a go ?08:29
TheOpenSourcererAlmost certainly. I'm just reading a bit more before jumping in. Ideally I would like to have two servers able to report on the same agents...08:29
diploIf you do have a go I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts, interested but not a lot of time at the mo :)08:31
popeyMorning all08:58
gordthe new router is a christmas tree of LED's =\ it has a bunch of blinking ones at the front, some green, some blue, some red. then on the side a giant blue one09:05
oimonubuntu startup disk creator in 10.04 doesn't work with oneiric iso :(09:13
oimonunetbootin to the rescue09:13
gordstartup disk creator has always been hit and miss for me, depending more on the usb drive than anything else09:14
oimonit'z bizarre09:14
oimonnoobs could get very confused with a program that only works 25% of th etime09:15
gordpatches welcome :)09:15
gordhonestly i think it lets you do too much, if it just said "you have to wipe the entire usb drive to put the ubuntu iso on the drive" then it would solve 99% of its problems09:16
oimonmy patch would be an error window that says "maybe use unetbootin if this didn't work"09:16
=== issyl0 is now known as Guest65136
=== Guest65136 is now known as issyl0
andylockranhey guys09:36
andylockranjust for confirmation - probably shouldn't be using hardy any more, but on the server security updates will run until april 2013 ?09:36
popeyhowdy howdy howdy09:36
lubotu3Ubuntu 8.04 LTS (Hardy Heron) was the eighth release of Ubuntu. Desktop support ended on May 12 2011. See !upgrade, !lts and !eol for more details.09:36
lubotu3End-Of-Life is the time when security updates and support for an Ubuntu release stop, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases for more information. Looking to upgrade from an EOL release? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades09:36
andylockran!lts | andylockran09:36
lubotu3andylockran, please see my private message09:36
popeyyes, april 201309:36
andylockranok, that's good - how does the update mechanism discern between a desktop and a server?09:37
* AlanBell wonders too09:37
AlanBellif you have a server with openoffice.org installed on it for example09:37
andylockranyeah, interesting.09:39
andylockranI'd have thought apache is a definite to continue getting sec upgrades, and definitely a server tech09:39
andylockranbut interesting to find out which it is09:39
oimonPythonPup: i have the buttons on the right in oneiric, the regular gconftool command works09:42
oimongconftool-2 --set "/apps/metacity/general/button_layout" --type string ":minimize,maximize,close"09:43
PythonPupOh, thank you oiman.  That's interesting.  I hgot it to work, but I changed a different place.  I did gconftool-2 --set /desktop/gnome/shell/windows/button_layout --type string ":minimize,maximize,close"09:44
PythonPuphgot -> got09:44
PythonPupI had to logot and log back in.  Maybe yours would have done it right away.  I'll test that.  Thank you for the note.09:46
popeyandylockran: I have asked this question before and never got a clear answer09:48
JohnRobertdoes anyone know of a linux/oss alternative to flash media encoder and flash media server for streaming live video? (and I don't mean ustream etc..)09:52
JohnRobertwhat should I use for the broadcasting/local encoding?09:52
JohnRoberteg my pc at home ----> my server (red5) ---> viewer09:53
andylockranpopey: I might try and get a proper answer from someone inside Canonical - it's quite critical when we're running hardy at the moment..09:53
AlanBelldunno really JohnRobert, openMeetings perhaps09:53
JohnRobertthanks, I guess I can get started and figure it out :)09:53
PythonPupffmpeg for the encoder.  Lots of choices for streaming.  I used VLC for myself.09:54
JohnRobertso ffmpeg & vlc can push out encoded streams too?09:56
JohnRobertlike over rstp or whatever it is09:56
andylockranrtmpdump is also a useful tool09:56
PythonPupI just use http and ftp.  I don't know about weird things like rtsp.09:56
* andylockran used it week before last to dump the online stream of the gf's graduation of the manchester uni website :)09:56
andylockranshe was chuffed.09:57
PythonPupI do audio streaming constantly.  I have done just a little video streaming.09:57
JohnRobertthat's cool09:57
PythonPupI understand apache can stream pretty well.  The issue is going to be how many people you are expecting to receive the stream and how much bandwidth.09:58
JohnRobertwell, I want a flowplayer thing on my website playing a live stream from a red5 server running on the same server and I want to stream video to it from my pc at home09:59
JohnRobertbandwidth not an issue09:59
PythonPupBut, you hate your users.  I had not heard of flowplayer.  It is evidently some flash junk.  I never install flash.10:03
davmor2morning all10:03
JohnRobertI guess it's freedom hating yes10:04
JohnRobertbut I'm not sure how else to reliably stream video to users on a webpage10:04
JohnRobertto the biggest audience10:04
JohnRobertwithout people having to download plugins10:04
popeyPythonPup: you are in a very small minority10:05
popeyWhere "very small" is 1%10:06
popeyandylockran: i vaguely recall it being something like "what's in the Ubuntu server seed is supported"10:06
PythonPupIf I needed to stream to a buch of people, I would first try VLC server.  I don't know how well it would do.  Then I would look at spinoffs of commercial products, like Darwin Streaming server or Helix.  (I have not used either of the later).10:06
PythonPupIn what way, popey?10:07
popey"I never install flash."10:07
JohnRobertI guess some kind of html5 player could be the way forward10:08
JohnRobertmaybe I should investigate that10:08
popeyhave you looked at the one from collabora?10:08
PythonPupIf so, I am proud.  But, a) I don't believe it is that small of a number. B) Flash is so atrocious that it is the only rational choice.    Most people just don't analyse Flash rationally.  For example, do you know that you agree not to properly backup your system, if you install Flash?10:09
PythonPupThey used to demand the right to enter your home and inspect your computers, but they did drop that requirement.10:09
PythonPupThere must be some nice solution based on html5 for JohnRobert10:10
JohnRobertagain though anyone not running IE9 or later etc.. won't be able to see it10:11
JohnRobertthis is basically why people use flash10:11
JohnRobertit's not out of choice10:11
popeyMy point was not "flash is great"10:11
popeyI am just suggesting all the requirements are looked at first10:11
popeyJohnRobert: have you seen the video stream from debconf11?10:12
popeythats html5 based I believe10:12
popeymaybe speak to them and ask what infrastructure they use?10:12
PythonPupI am running Firefox 6.  Does that qualify as IE9 or later.  I'll admit that I generally don't care if Windows users can access stuff I put up.10:13
popeyI do.10:14
popeyWindows users of today are potential Ubuntu users of tomorrow.10:14
PythonPupI'm sorry.10:14
oimonthey should also be pitied rather than isolated :)10:15
JohnRobertit's not *just* IE that won't play html5 streams10:15
popeymake all content available in a 320x120 window10:15
popey"If you had Free Software, you'd be able to see this in HD!"10:16
gordis IE not supporting webm?10:17
PythonPupFlumotion from Fluendo may be an option.  I don't know if there is a free version.  It supports all platforms.10:17
popeythats the one I meant when I said collabora10:17
PythonPupOK, I did not recognize the name.10:17
PythonPupI think IE is going to support webm in some future version, but not yet.10:18
JohnRobertyeah that was a guess by me if it supports the vid stuff at all10:18
PythonPupGoogle has a plugin at https://tools.google.com/dlpage/webmmf10:19
JohnRobertI'm pretty sure chrome does as you can put youtube into html5 mode10:19
JohnRobertand it plays on that10:19
PythonPupChrome definitely supports it.  I have seen it, but won't install Chrome.  Chrome has an embedded copy of Flash.10:19
oimonhas anyone tried changing the screensaver in oneiric? doesn't seem possible10:20
gordoimon, yup, not possible. you done got gnome-3'ed!10:20
PythonPupoimon  I changed the timeout value.  That was the only thing I could adjust.10:20
* oimon is going to stab someone10:21
oimonthe system settings are really irritating!10:21
PythonPupMostly, there are not enough of them.  From an interview, it seems to be on purpose.  Mark says options divide the community.10:22
oimonit doesn't seem possbile to set the timeout to "off"10:22
gordPythonPup, this is gnome310:22
gordthis is not canonical made10:22
PythonPupThis option is gnome.  Other things are cononical.  For example, in Unity2d, I can't make Firefocx come up without being full screen.10:23
oimoni don't like the "all settings" button to return to the main settings screen - i missed it the first 5 times i used it and quit the app and restarted it10:24
oimoni remember when linux was inuitive10:25
PythonPupInteresting.  debconf11 is giving everyone sim cards to talk to each other.  I wonder if they are running their own micro-cell.10:26
PythonPupIt looks like they plan to document their video streaming setup at   http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf11/Videoteam10:28
PythonPupHave a good day10:30
* davmor2 throws his arms around czajkowski and says Morning :)10:31
gordoimon, unfortunately, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=64782810:32
lubotu3Gnome bug 647828 in Other Preferences "screen: no option 'never'" [Normal,Resolved: notabug]10:32
gordclever bot10:32
dwatkinsAnother reason not to upgrade :(10:34
gorddwatkins, desktop might distro-patch it :)10:34
dwatkinsThe resolution of "NOTABUG" makes me doubt this.10:34
gorddwatkins, thats gnome, gnome said not a bug10:35
Davieydwatkins: You could raise a Ubuntu bug and add that upstream task to it..10:35
gordwe say, "yeah it is" and distropatch10:35
dwatkinsah ok, I don't know the relationship between you and gnome10:36
bigcalmAnybody here working for a bank? I have a slight concern about caching dns servers10:39
* StevenR wonders how those two items are related10:40
* Daviey poisons bigcalm's cache.10:40
jpdsDaviey: Thought you said cake there for a second.10:41
andylockranDaviey: did you see the post re: server versus desktop10:41
StevenRdid someone say cake?10:41
Davieyandylockran: no?10:41
Davieyjpds: good idea!10:41
andylockranDaviey: how to differentiate between server versus desktop when talking about LTS updates10:41
andylockraninstalled a ubuntu server hardy.. now between the desktop & server update windows10:42
andylockranbut not sure if 100% of the packages on my server install fall under the 'server updates' 5 year promise10:42
andylockranso wondering how ubuntu discerns the difference10:42
Davieyandylockran: well... $ apt-cache show apache2 | grep Supported10:43
DavieySupported: 18m10:43
andylockranDaviey: :)10:43
Davieybut in truth, if there is an issue in a non-core package it can still be resolved.10:43
andylockranperfect - cheers Daviey10:44
Daviey$ apt-cache show apache2 | grep Supported10:44
DavieySupported: 5y10:44
Daviey^^ Lucid10:44
andylockranDaviey: is there a way to run that query for all packages on the system?10:45
bigcalmI'm wondering if banks and large companies are likely to cache dns10:45
Davieyandylockran: dpkg --get-selections, awk, | etc... but i'd be tempted to use the python apt bindings :)10:45
andylockranDaviey: ta10:45
jpdsbigcalm: I guess it entirely depends on their IT team.10:45
bigcalmI'll just have to continue tailing the access logs on hosts A and B. Once A stops updating I know that everybody now looks at B10:47
bigcalmhttp://www.whatsmydns.net says that the change has been made globally10:48
oimongord: i am aghast at the sheer arrogance of the gnome commenters on that bug10:49
andylockranDaviey: ta10:49
StevenRbigcalm: how large is the TTL on the record?10:53
bigcalmStevenR: It's an hour. But won't caching dns servers ignore that?10:56
bigcalmI don't have direct control over the dns server sadly10:56
StevenRbigcalm: why would they?10:58
bigcalmSave in transactions and therefore bandwidth10:59
StevenRthey shouldn't.11:00
StevenRif the TTL at the source is an hour, caching servers should honour that.11:00
bigcalm*should* :)11:00
StevenRotherwise, they're broken.11:01
hooverhi biggie11:01
bigcalmI have no idea if they will or not11:01
bigcalmHey hoovie :)11:01
bigcalmBrowsers caching is another problem11:01
StevenRbigcalm: I've not noticed browsers do much DNS caching tbh.11:02
* bigcalm shakes his fist at VirginMedia11:02
bigcalmStill waiting for them to update11:02
StevenRbigcalm: well, when did you make the switch?11:03
bigcalmI requested the change be made at 10:34 and got a responce at 10:47 that it had been done.11:03
StevenRbigcalm: ok, so that might still take 15 mins to hit all DNS servers (it does where I work, a change on the master isn't made immediately)11:04
StevenR*isn't replicated11:04
StevenRso you've probably got another 15 mins or so.11:05
bigcalmFrom ns1.netnames.net (where the record lives)11:06
bigcalmtotalderivatives.com.   3600    IN      A
andylockrananyone familiar with python-apt point out which module I should be using for a function similar to: apt-cache show11:06
bigcalmFrom VirginMedia11:07
bigcalmtotalderivatives.com.   17139   IN      A
bigcalmAn odd TTL number there from VM11:07
StevenRbigcalm: ok. that's broken.11:07
StevenRbigcalm: not really, it's a "cache ttl" kind of thing11:07
StevenRbigcalm: so it'll decrease until it expires11:07
bigcalmI see11:08
bigcalmSo in about 4ish hours11:08
bigcalmAnd that's just VM11:08
StevenR4.7 hours to go.11:08
bigcalmI have no idea about all the other caching servers in the world11:08
StevenRbigcalm: if you're wanting to turn a server off, can it wait until tomorrow?11:09
bigcalmAnybody else fancy doing a dig on their ISP's dns?11:09
bigcalmStevenR: hopefully11:09
popeytotalderivatives.com.   3600    IN      A
StevenRI get consistant cached results from my ISP11:10
bigcalmAt least both hosts access the same database. So the transition should be smooth11:10
popeyour internal dns shows the new IP too11:10
bigcalmpopey: thank you :)11:11
popeybut then it would because there will be no caching here11:11
popeybecause nobody has ever looked that host up11:11
StevenRbigcalm: I suspect you'll see stuff on the old until tomorrow.11:11
bigcalmAnd you haven't asked for that domain name before now :)11:11
DavieyStevenR: replications from master to slaves happens near immediately with my nameservers :)11:12
bigcalmFair enough11:12
brobostigonafternoonings everyone.11:12
bigcalmGah, already?11:12
bigcalmHi brobostigon11:12
brobostigonhi bigcalm11:12
StevenRDaviey: that's nice. We can't do that (too many changes!)11:12
DavieyStevenR: seriously?  an AXFR isn't that intensive.11:13
bigcalmWish netnames.net allowed full record transfers11:13
ubuntuuk-planet[Gary Kearley] giffgaff - http://kearley.net/giffgaff/11:14
StevenRDaviey: it's over multiple sites, etc. I don't work on that team, so I don't know how bit it is, but changes can take upto 15 mins to be replicated.11:14
StevenR*how big it is11:14
kaushalHow do i invoke cron every sec11:16
brobostigoni noticed an interesting bug yesterday with google+ app, and andoird gingerbread, with gps on, when you write a new post, it would poll the gps to find the position, but would shortly after FC, after you try and choose the position.11:16
davmor2kaushal: why would you want to11:16
kaushal* * * * * root /usr/lib64/sa/sa1 1 111:16
kaushaldavmor2: I am testing an application11:17
popeykaushal: have you searched on google?11:17
kaushaldavmor2: is it possible ?11:17
kaushalpopey: yes11:17
popeythere are lots of threads about this11:17
popeycron has a minute granularity11:18
popeynot seconds11:18
kaushalpopey: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-newbie-8/how-to-run-crontab-job-for-every-5-seconds-667315/11:19
kaushalnot sure how do i set it11:19
gordkaushal, you might have more luck with "while true; do <your program here>; sleep 1; done"11:19
popeywhich is what that link does11:19
popeyand what most other results on google suggest11:20
kaushalgord: so put while true; do <your program here>; sleep 1; done ?11:20
kaushalin a file ?11:20
kaushalbit confused11:20
popeythat link has an explicity example11:20
gordkaushal, just put it in a terminal, replacing <your program here> with your program11:20
kaushalgord: i always want it to run11:21
kaushalso background ?11:21
kaushalefficient way to do it11:21
gordjust don't close the terminal?11:21
kaushalgord: so screen ?11:21
bigcalmPut it in a screen?11:21
gordif  you want?11:22
bigcalmPut it in a cronjob that runs every x mins and checks if it's already running11:22
bigcalmEggdrop bots do this very well11:22
bigcalmkaushal: google botchk for hints11:22
Davieykaushal: Whilst you can (ab)use cron to run something every second, i suspect you are doing it wrong.11:30
bigcalmI keep forgetting that ABP is running and wondering why adverts on a client's site weren't working11:30
oimonbrobostigon: there was a problem with google+ on android yesterday11:34
oimoni couldn't even get past the inital screen11:34
brobostigonoimon: i got past that, souns like a different cause.11:35
oimonwhat would be the reason for an installed app not appearing in the unity dash search list, or the "installed applications" list?11:54
BigRedSIs there a way to force the sidebar thingy in unity to hide when it's deciding to not autohide?11:58
BigRedSjust don't use full-screened (as in F11) windows11:58
BigRedSoimon: at a guess, it's just not put itself in the menu properly12:01
BigRedSI've no real idea, but that's how I'd make that search work12:01
gordoimon, it not having a .desktop file12:02
gordor if its chosen to hide itself from search/menu's12:02
oimongord, the app is gimp12:02
* oimon wonders if new gimp will arrive in oneiric12:03
oimonhmm seems that gimp 2.8 is still some way away12:05
popeyThat is all.12:08
oimonnurse, somebody needs their pills please12:10
gordman, #ubuntu-uk is going to be a riot when we are all pensioners12:10
oimonmost people still using xchat i expect12:11
oimoni've worked with loads of old guys in IT who always go on about mainframes etc and never moved on in their knowledge much. i wonder what the stumbling block will be for those of us in their 30s/40s now? cloud? something else?12:14
gord30s/40's? old? o_O12:15
mar_33hey guys, my Desktop folders and files suddenly disappear but when I list it from terminal I find each and every thing of it . I confuse any help :S12:15
* gord hides from the flack12:15
oimongord..i mean the old guys late 50s/60s probably stopped learning new stuff in their 40s12:15
popeyWhat is this client-server you speak of?12:18
mar_33what about my question ????12:18
BigRedSmar_33: I don't know how to do it, but I suspect you just need to toggle the showing of the contents of ~/Desktop on your desktop in whatever DE you're using12:18
gordmar_33, it sounds like nautilus is crashing, but i can't really help you more than that12:19
oimona lot of users at my place still login to a particular machine to run pine (as per in the 90s) . i tell them they can run it from any host i.e. their own machine, but they persist. i am thinking of changing the ip of that box to
BigRedSI still not-infrequently log on to my machine to run mutt.12:20
oimoni haven't bothered to learn ipv6 yet12:21
BigRedSmakes more sense to me to do that than arse around with imap/pop3/smtp settings. SSH does a perfectly good job of encrypting teh connection and doesn't require config12:21
popeyI used to quite like using pine12:21
popeyabout 15 years ago12:21
oimonBigRedS: yeah but these guys get the same config experience whatever machien they logon to (automounted home dirs), nothing to configure12:21
popeychange is bad12:22
popeyfear change12:22
BigRedSwell, surely they'd have to configure it initially12:22
BigRedSand what's the benefit? The old way works just as well as the new way12:22
* BigRedS might be a tiny bit of a luddite12:22
oimonBigRedS: if it works on the "magic server", it works just the same on their own box12:22
BigRedSoh, so even the server has the same ~ as their pc?12:23
oimonautomounted nfs home dirs ftw12:23
BigRedSah. Well, there's no reason to *not* connect to the 'server' in that case then :)12:23
=== hcfd__ is now known as hcfd
oimonsome also do a remote -X connection to run mathematica/maple to their machine :(12:23
gingoimon: can automounted home dirs like that cope with having more than 1 distro ?12:25
BigRedSging: it's more the versions of whatever writes its config files to ~ that matters than the distro (though that is somewhat defined by the distro)12:26
oimonging: sort of..i'll explain12:26
oimoni use ubuntu, whereas most other machines here use scientific linux. so my tomboy applet etc won't load on the SL boxes. even worse, my firefox version is different and plugins may not work, or worse, get uninstalled.12:27
oimondifferent versions of SL5.0-5.7 are absolutely fine.12:28
oimonbut i tend to use KDE on SL box , and gnome on ubuntu machine to avoid shagging up my gnome config, and if firefox is running on my box, it will have a .lock file and start acting funny12:28
gingi guess that's 1 way around it12:29
oimonmost staff don't have an issue because it's just a few of the IT support dudes who run ubuntu12:30
oimoni'm getting a bit nervous about the KDE4 upgrade in SL6.1 - how will users cope?12:30
oimonit's not even a recent KDE4 version12:30
diploAnyone used Hylafax much here ?12:31
GreenDanceAfternoon :)12:38
GreenDanceby any chance does anyone here know CSS?12:49
GreenDance#css is all quiet12:49
wintellectGreenDance: a little, what do you want to know?12:49
GreenDancewintellect: I'm having trouble with a cell, I want it to be 100% height of the browser, but it doesnt seem to want to work12:50
GreenDancewintellect: ill get the code for you, 2 secs please12:51
wintellectok - pastebin it12:51
wintellectlo daubers12:51
daubersquiet in here today isn't it12:53
wintellectI only arrived - about 2mins before you12:54
GreenDancewintellect: http://pastebin.com/SAaMMWfm12:55
wintellectGreenDance: looking...12:55
GreenDancewintellect: thank you12:56
wintellectGreenDance: almost there13:01
GreenDancewintellect: thank you13:02
wintellectadding it to pastebin for you13:04
wintellectGreenDance: http://pastebin.com/fJjyHUmv13:06
wintellectGreenDance: essentially, it works on the premise that "body" is set to a height of 100% and the divs have an "absolute" position, then when their height is set to "100%" the calculation is based upon their parent's height13:07
GreenDancewintellect: the code isn't displaying correctly in the browser13:09
wintellecthow so?13:10
ormiretcan anyone point me in the right direction for letting users start/stop services without sudoig to root (if that's possible)?13:11
GreenDancewintellect: theres a scroll bar on the right hand side to go up and down, the code isn't displaying at the height of the browser13:11
wintellectwhat is it doing wrong GreenDance ?13:11
wintellectGreenDance: it is, just that you have a div along the top called "header"13:11
wintellectGreenDance: I guess you could try and fix this by moving the "left" and "center" divs up by the height of the "header" box13:12
StathisVHello! Three weeks before I was installed the Ati Radeon HD 6670 in my computer under  Ubuntu 10.04.  I had a lot of problems with ati drivers and usualy my system in booting,  message me  "checking battery state" and then died . The problems were solved when I made upgraded to 11.04 with "radeon" vga driver. But suddenly yesterday the same message had rise. What should I do to fix it? I13:13
StathisVwas searching the internet, but nothing useful found.13:13
GreenDancewintellect: i don't understand, sorry13:13
=== GreenDance is now known as GreenDance-brb
hoovercheers all13:56
BigRedShah. I emailed First Direct asking if there's anything I'm likely to want to do that I can't do online, for example replace a lost or stolen card.14:08
BigRedSThey've responded saying that some things need doing over the phone, like registering for telephone banking :/14:08
DJonesBigRedS: With my bank, if I want to order a cheque book via online banking, I have to register for telephone banking........?14:13
ubuntuuk-planet[Kwabena Aning] Moving to Scala - http://blog.kaning.co.uk/archives/29014:14
BigRedSI think I'm going to go with them in any case - they publish a geographical number for enquiries which is also 24hr. That, I think, is as good as the banking industry does :(14:15
oimonthat reminds me, i need a new chequebook - banks never send them automatically when you finish anymore :(14:17
czajkowskiare cheques still in operation thought they were being phased out ?14:18
BigRedSyeah, but it's a very slow phasing out14:18
oimonhow else do i pay the plumber?14:19
DJonesThe banks recently announced that they weren't getting rid of cheques in 2018 as planned14:19
DJonesGoing to be kept for "as long as customers need them" http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-1412212914:20
DJonesBut no cheque guarantee cards anymore14:20
BigRedSthat sounds an awful lot like banks acquiesing to their customers' demands14:22
BigRedSthat's rather nice of them14:23
DJonesNot sure about that, sounds more like the government/mp's have lent on the banks to say don't do it14:24
BigRedSah, perhaps. I was all impressed with the banks for a moment there14:29
oimoncheques are really useful in certain situations14:30
oimoni can't see anything filling the gap tbh14:30
BigRedSNah, cash is too trasnferable14:30
popeyBook tokens!14:31
BigRedSin that a cheque is only valuable to whomever you've made it out to, no point in someone else nicking it, no great loss if it's misplaced14:31
BigRedSI think we should just return to a barterting system14:31
popeyluncheon vouchers!14:31
gordwriting IOU on a piece of paper?14:32
oimon.staff at my old company used to leave luncheon vouchers lying around, up to £100 worth.14:32
popeyi recall being on holiday in spain with some chaps, a local gentleman of african extraction was attempting to tell us some very low quality watches14:32
oimoni used to say to them , thats money, you know...they would be ....nah!14:32
popeymy friend was teaching him the barter system14:32
popeyit was the most fun I had on holiday14:32
davmor2popey: Yeah they operate the barter system up here too, it's more like give it me or I kill you but that is still a fair barter right ;)14:35
popeyhe used to hold his hand up in the air "you're up here mate", then hold his hand at the ground "I'm down here", "We need to meet in the middle, here!" (holiding his hand 1cm off the floor)14:35
oimonanyone know anything about family tax credit ?14:36
popeymy wife does :D14:36
davmor2oimon: the T'interweb does14:36
popeyshe deals with that stuff :D14:36
oimonit doesn't answer my question though :(14:37
oimonwhich is:14:37
davmor2oimon: that why you can't get and answer my friend14:37
davmor2oimon: you need to ask the question :D14:38
oimonsay bob earns 45k but gives 10k/year to charity. then his income (for tax purposes) can be regarded as 35k. therefore with the tax credit system, would bob get the family tax credit, or forfeit it because the ceiling is around 40k income14:38
popeysurely the deduction would have to be done at source for that to work?14:38
oimonHMRC don't have an issue normally14:39
popeyand I'm not sure it does mean his income is 35K14:39
oimontaxable income..14:39
davmor2oimon: the clue is in Bob earns part of that statement14:39
oimonsome employer do allow deduction at source, i just wonder if it is necessary14:40
DJonesoimon: fromthe tax credits website "We need to know the income from working as an employee in the tax year 2010-2011."14:42
DJonesDefinition of earnings is at http://taxcredits.hmrc.gov.uk/ntchelp/helppane.aspx?H_VER=1.7&helpTopic=Glossaryearnings&helpType=undefined&v1=http%3A//taxcredits.hmrc.gov.uk&v2=&tmt=14:42
oimonif bob earned 35k and his wife sheila earned 35k, there would be no problem. if bob's wife is a full time mum and earns 0k , but bob earns 45k there is a problem14:43
oimonso bob needs to look into GAYE scheme14:44
DJonesThats how I read it14:45
oimonthat sucks, because bob's charitable giving could be a regular portion, but also large lump sums14:46
oimonwhich is not possible to include in GAYE14:46
oimonbob's going to be upset when he hears this14:46
oimoni'll recommend that he take a pay cut14:46
* popey wonders whether bob runs the charity14:46
popeyand whether bob is just using this to pay less tax and earn via other means14:47
* popey is sceptical like that14:47
oimonnot that either14:47
* BigRedS wonders whether bob is a beneficiary of the charity :)14:47
oimoncynical bunch :)14:48
oimonit's a shame that some of sheila's tax entitlement can't be shared by bob..rich people manage to do this somehow14:49
oimonbob can pay into his pension to reduce the figure, but not to charridy14:50
DJonesProbably worth a phone call to the help line, might just be something that doesn't come up vey often & hasn't been mentioned on the website14:52
oimonyeah, i'll suggest that to bob :) i think he had some problems last time getting through14:53
HazRPGI see to have nothing but trouble with U1MS :/15:01
HazRPGI think this is only like the 3rd time I've bought something from it...15:01
HazRPGbut my song still hasn't been transferred to my u1 account for syncing to my desktop ;/15:01
popeyHazRPG: poke them in #ubuntuone15:06
popeythey're nice chaps15:06
popeyeven that aquarius bloke15:06
HazRPGpopey: cheers, might just do that :)15:06
HazRPGdidn't realise they had a channel15:06
HazRPGpopey: ah, just read title and clicked links... seems there's a known disruption to the service at the moment15:07
HazRPGdate was 2011-07-20 on the wiki15:08
oimonmy bank won't let me make a payment to the inland revenue of 0.30p15:14
DJonesIt is coming up to the end of the month, a lot people wouldn't have 30p left in their account :)15:16
oimonthat's my tax bill for the year. it says i have to pay a minimum of £115:17
DJonesNice tax bill15:18
oimonthey said i didn't need to do a tax return this year but i did one anyway , cos i don't really trust then15:22
oimonlooks like my giant offlineimap backup failed half way :(15:25
HazRPGoimon: heh, that must be the best tax bill ever15:27
* popey doesn't dare look at his tax bill15:27
DJonesHazRPG: nah, that would be a refund of 30p15:27
oimonthe best one was when i got 2k :)15:27
HazRPGheh nice15:28
oimonalthough to be fair, it just meant i had overpaid by loads15:28
oimonthe way i see it, if people in your g+ circles perform a +1 on a link, it goes higher in your google search results, right?15:33
HazRPGOnly for the affected parties, not for an anonymous user15:37
=== GreenDance-brb is now known as GreenDance
HazRPGIf I +1 a link, that will result in a higher rate of appearance to those logged in on their google account and are following me.15:37
GreenDancewintellect: Hi, are you still here?15:38
GreenDancewintellect must be away15:39
GreenDanceofftopic: does anyone else here know css please?15:40
BigRedSGreenDance: someone might, but nobody's likely to admit to it until you've given some clue as to how much knowledge you need15:40
=== seeker_ is now known as seeker
GreenDanceBigRedS: I know a little, but not much, if anyone could help me with this I'd be most greatful, my problem is for the past 2 days i couldn't get this to work, I have 3 cells, a header, a menu, and a content area, the problem I have is, I would like the menu and content area to be 100% the height of the browser and not spill over if there is no content, also my menu has disappeared when i15:48
GreenDancesay 100%, but if I say 250px it appears, http://pastebin.com/5txMSTAY15:48
andylockranguys - how do you boot into single user mode in natty?15:57
popeyhold shift to get grub prompt15:58
=== fred is now known as Guest54878
popeye to edit boot line and add "single"15:58
andylockranpopey: doesn't seem to want to work15:58
andylockranleft shift/right shift?15:58
=== Guest54878 is now known as GIR
DJonesleft shift15:58
=== GIR is now known as Guest94204
Laneyanyone fancy verifying https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tomboy/+bug/667736 ?15:59
lubotu3Ubuntu bug 667736 in tomboy (Ubuntu Natty) "tomboy help content not available" [Medium,Fix committed]15:59
popeybigcalm: your linksys/cisco thing... did you say you have ddwrt on it? if so, did you flash it first with some hardware specific image then another different one?16:04
popeybigcalm: my boss had one arrive today, he found some online guide which said to do that16:05
popeyseemed to work fine and be fully up to date after first patch16:05
gordi went with some netgear thing, not brave enough to go with ddwrt16:08
popeywell, boss did the flash thing on the cisco one he bought, was very easy16:08
Laneypeople are hawking their affiliate codes on planet u-uk now?16:08
popeyLaney: people as in Gary.16:11
Laneyhe's not a person?16:11
popeyhe is very much a person16:12
popeyI take "people" to mean "more than one person"16:12
BigRedSpopey is strongly typed16:13
=== Guest94204 is now known as The_Fred
daubersspent _ages_ laying out a PCB, then realised that I had the pins wrong on a chip, now it's probably quicker to just start again :(16:16
popeycan you not use a pcb layout thing that does it for you?16:16
bigcalmpopey: was a little while ago now. I recall using one image to start with and then another to fine tune16:18
bigcalmFlip, wrong key16:19
bigcalmctrl+q/w need to be unbound from x-chat16:20
bigcalmI was trying to say that it works atm. So I will bring it as is and let you brick^wflash it16:21
popeyYay! Humble Bundle 3!16:37
shaunough.  so a kid at work tried to make a joke about their being no games on the mac.  me being a smart-ass, fired lemmings up in dosbox.  it went straight over his head because *drumroll*  he'd never heard of lemmings16:41
shaunoso not only am I not funny, but I'm now old to boot.16:41
bigcalmBut you also have lemmings to play :D16:41
BigRedSnever heard of lemmings?16:41
popeymy kids will like crayon physics16:42
gordevery time the humble bundle comes out i already own all the games =\16:42
popeyI've only ever already owned one16:43
popeyworld of goo16:43
gordpopey, congrats :)16:44
gordpopey, second to top contributor16:44
popeyfor about 3 seconds I bet!16:44
gordpopey, yup look at that, someone took you over =\16:48
popeygord: refresh16:50
gordpopey, *cough*16:53
popeywait till notch turns up16:54
gordyeah no i'm not matching him.16:54
popeyalso, linux average, again16:54
gordyup, linux users are awesome :)16:56
davmor2popey: is notch the guy with more money than sense?16:57
davmor2gord: Nice 1¢ more16:58
davmor2gord: I got to ask when do you have time to play all these games?17:05
popeyhe doesn't have children :D17:06
popeythere are some of the old bundle I haven't even played yet!17:06
popeyI will play them when I retire ;)17:06
gordyeah my evenings and weekends are entirely my own ;)17:07
popeyand the cats17:07
gordalso i don't do a very good job of finishing games http://backloggery.com/gordallott17:07
gordaww here come the big guys17:12
exobuzzoh no another humble bundle for me to throw money at and never get the time to play the games17:13
exobuzzim stilling playing some from bundle 117:14
exobuzzpopey, wow. you are generous!17:14
exobuzzcrayon physics looks cool heh17:15
popeywell.. the way I look at it, my kids will play those games for _hours_17:17
exobuzzaah yeh hehe17:17
popeyI could spend that amount on _one_ visit to the cinema17:17
exobuzzdon't buy the popcorn :)17:17
popeywhich would be 2-3 hours of entertainment17:17
popeymight go and see Cars 2 at the weekend thinking about it17:17
popeytell the kids "you cant go to the cinema, daddy spent your pocket money on games"17:18
exobuzzpopey, a few of these games look decent. a few erm. dont :)17:19
exobuzzill do my usual "somewhat more than the average purchase but not as generous as popey" then heh17:20
MartijnVdS\o/ back from UK17:23
MartijnVdS*fires up sound-juicer*17:23
MartijnVdSpopey: "<£5" bins are great :)17:31
MartijnVdSpopey: http://www.discogs.com/MC-Hawking-A-Brief-History-Of-Rhyme-MC-Hawkings-Greatest-Hits/release/130258017:32
exobuzzheh nerdcore17:32
gordvvvvvv is wonderful, you can beat it rather quickly too :) best game on there, crayon physics deluxe is a lot of fun, didn't like and yet it moves much. not got to cogs or hammerflight yet17:33
MartijnVdSexobuzz: Quite :)17:33
exobuzzMartijnVdS, do you know mc fronatalot also ?17:33
HazRPGMartijnVdS: what did ya do in England :)?17:33
MartijnVdSexobuzz: I have heard some of his stuff17:33
MartijnVdSHazRPG: Going to the Scifi thing with the daubersman and AlanBell and some other people who turned up17:34
MartijnVdSHazRPG: (the scifi thing = bl.uk/sciencefiction)17:34
exobuzzMartijnVdS, this one ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeV0pLRyM7o17:34
HazRPGMartijnVdS: Ah cool, doh! Didn't realise that was this weekend o.o17:34
exobuzzone of my faves heh17:34
MartijnVdSexobuzz: "First World Problems" I think I saw17:35
* popey goes home17:35
popeyttfn all17:35
exobuzzive also heard some stuff from Optimus Rhyme17:35
exobuzzMartijnVdS, the video is quite nice from that one i linked.17:35
MartijnVdSexobuzz: those names.. 8-)17:35
MartijnVdSexobuzz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fow7iUaKrq4 -- kill -917:37
exobuzzwow. thats even nerdiercore17:38
exobuzzok. i doubt id listen to that heh17:38
* daubers just sent his first PCB to the magic company that makes them17:39
=== sheep is now known as Guest68667
hamitrondaubers: how many layers?17:57
StevenRdaubers: pcb to do what?18:00
* MartijnVdS guesses something storageish18:02
daubersStevenR:  Building a set of light gates for someone at work :) Just a mux chip and a load of LDRs18:05
daubers(32 LDRs, 2 lasers and some wireless chips to transmit the data)18:06
Azelphurlol fujitsu just came out with a intel atom phone18:45
Azelphurofficial estimated battery life: 2 hours18:45
ali1234does it run meego?18:46
StevenRwindows 7 iirc18:46
ali1234well there you go then18:47
ali1234if it's a full PC it's not going to have good battery life18:47
ali1234would be good candidate for meego port though18:47
ali1234oh it dual boots18:48
ali1234you can't make phone calls from W718:48
ali1234and the phone OS presumably has better battery life18:49
popeyevening all19:23
MartijnVdSEither I bought too many CDs, or my CD drive is way too slow19:24
MartijnVdSfinally done with the juicer19:37
andres-kainyay! software centre now works!20:09
andres-kainbut now keyboard is miss configured20:09
MartijnVdSand you're happy about that? :P20:10
andres-kainmissing the other /20:10
andres-kainyep. cause i think i can solve that!20:10
MartijnVdSright-alt + / might help?20:11
andres-kainfunny I have two keys for < and two keys for >20:12
andres-kainoH wait a minute found it!\20:13
MartijnVdSdid you select the wrong layout?20:13
andres-kainit seems so. I had to install the whole thing, used the auto detect.20:14
MartijnVdSandres-kain: you can (re-)select a keyboard layout in the preferences -> keyboard dialog20:14
gordit would be nice is routers came with an option in their firmware for turining off the LED's20:35
mgdmOoooh yes20:35
mgdmleccy tape is suboptimal20:35
bigcalmI was going to say20:35
MartijnVdSSoldering iron, replace with normal diodes.20:36
mgdmI'd settle for a switch20:36
mgdmI don't want them permanently dead20:36
MartijnVdSyou can solder those in too20:36
gordhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi-CR6owrxA my latest router led conundrum20:36
gorduntil i get some pain or black nail varnish or something i'v had to make do with taping some paper over the big led thing20:37
gordit litterally lights up a corner of the room20:37
MartijnVdSgord: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=765xVYO3aAU20:37
MartijnVdSgord: it has configurable LEDs20:37
gordMartijnVdS, fun20:38
MartijnVdSgord: and it does _everything_ you'll ever need (wifi-n dualband concurrent, dect, isdn, analog phones, SIP, gigabit, USB printer/disk sharing, bandwidth monitoring, power monitoring)20:38
MartijnVdSgord: etc.20:38
MartijnVdSmgdm: I got mine for free -- my emplo^H^H^H^H^HISP gives them away with contracts20:39
MartijnVdSmgdm: you have to be in .nl though20:39
MartijnVdSalso, IPv6 :)20:40
mgdmOne of my medium-priority projects is to make my DD-WRT router do IPv6 for my network20:40
MartijnVdSI get native v6 over DSL20:41
MartijnVdSalso, I will be getting it on fibre next year \o/20:41
MartijnVdS500/500 mbit fibre20:41
* MartijnVdS does a happy dance20:41
* popey moves to MartijnVdS' house20:42
* hamitron flexes with his 600/44020:42
MartijnVdSpopey: 61k homes have been connected, by the end of next year >200k20:42
mgdm♫♪ OggCamp is happening at MartijnVdS' house, MartijnVdS house ♫♪20:43
* MartijnVdS doesn't press the "unlock lobby" button on his intercom system :)20:44
* gord moves to MartijnVdS's house and starts his own UK isp20:44
hamitronwhat worries me about these high internet speeds.... gonna make my house cables reduntant :/20:44
MartijnVdShamitron: my house has gigabit ethernet. It'll cope with 500/500 just fine20:45
gordhoping Be start offering a fibre plan later this year, that would be nice20:45
hamitronmine is 100mbit20:45
hamitronthe cable says cat5e, so should be ok20:46
hamitronbut it was the cheapest I could find20:46
* daubers needs to do a B&Q run tomorrow21:05
mgdmnot as good as a BBQ run21:19
czajkowskiDaviey: are you here ?22:21
Davieyczajkowski: always22:22
czajkowskiDaviey: ok join when I say join22:23
Davieyczajkowski: uh ok22:23
=== denny_ is now known as denny

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