| philipballew | has anyone ever installed linux over a network. i might need to | 02:10 |
|---|---|---|
| rww | Depends on what you mean by "installed linux over a network". I've PXE booted Debian before, if that's what you mean. | 02:11 |
| rww | ( http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch04s05.html.en explains that pretty well, though I use dnsmasq instead of dhcp3-server) | 02:13 |
| philipballew | rww well i need to install linox on a laptop i was givin. but it doesnt have a cd drive and wont boot from usb. | 02:13 |
| philipballew | plus the hard drive screws are stripped so i cant take it out... | 02:13 |
| philipballew | its an old laptop. but i figured id set it up and ssh into all my computers i use for real stuff and run top on all thee ssh sessions to know whats goin on | 02:14 |
| akk | It doesn't have any linux on it yet -- this will be the first one? | 02:15 |
| akk | Can it boot from the network, or only from floppies? | 02:15 |
| philipballew | it also doesnt have a floppy drive | 02:16 |
| philipballew | im not sure if it can boot from the network. | 02:16 |
| akk | What kind of laptop is it? Does it have PCMCIA? Is there any chance of borrowing a PCMCIA CDROM drive? | 02:16 |
| akk | (That's how I ended up installing on my old Vaio SR17) | 02:16 |
| rww | I defer to akk's superior old-stuff experience ;) | 02:17 |
| akk | There are ways to install Linux starting from Windows, but I don't how well tested they are with modern distros (they apparently worked around 8 years ago :) | 02:17 |
| philipballew | http://jrv.oddones.org/solo.html i found this. its what i have, but i only have the actual notebook itself | 02:17 |
| philipballew | it has ms 2000 | 02:17 |
| rww | If it has Windows, you could go with Wubi and all its quirkiness. | 02:18 |
| akk | I have some really old links here (hope some of them are still there): http://shallowsky.com/linux/vaiolinux.html#withoutCD | 02:18 |
| akk | It did sound complicated -- I was much relieved (though ever so slightly disappointed too) when d got a pcmcia CDROM drive which made the process trivial. | 02:19 |
| philipballew | wubi i hear is buggy | 02:19 |
| akk | That machine sounds very similar in specs to my old Vaio. | 02:20 |
| philipballew | i feel it might not be possible, maybe though | 02:20 |
| philipballew | akk i cant install it to the drive when its booted into windows can i? | 02:22 |
| akk | Yes, that's what those Toshiba Libretto pages I link to are about, assuming you can still get that loadlin program somewhere. | 02:23 |
| akk | This one is still there: http://www.omote.com/libretto/ | 02:23 |
| akk | But the link for where to get the files is broken ... maybe search on loadlin.exe, and if you get a lot of cruft from that search, add libretto. | 02:24 |
| akk | The toshiba libretto community definitely had the most info on no-cd installations. | 02:24 |
| philipballew | true, this looks like a chalenge | 02:25 |
| philipballew | might be better to sell the thing as is, but where is the fun in that, haha | 02:26 |
| akk | wimp! :) | 02:27 |
| philipballew | haha, could i just plug the laptop to my main laptop with say a crossover cable and do it that way you think maybe? | 02:28 |
| akk | Aren't there programs to install linux on a DOS/Windows partition, from within windows? Seems like I've read about something like that. | 02:28 |
| philipballew | yeah. but is running linux on ntfs a good idea? | 02:29 |
| akk | If you can get any form of linux up at all, then you can write stuff to the MBR and make your life a lot easier (e.g. install PLOP so you can boot from USB). | 02:29 |
| philipballew | what do you mean? | 02:29 |
| akk | Well, once you have a cmdline, you can write anything you want to the disk | 02:29 |
| philipballew | how would i even get a cmd line? | 02:30 |
| * philipballew feels confused | 02:30 | |
| philipballew | :) | 02:30 |
| akk | See what I asked above about installing to a win partition ^^ | 02:30 |
| akk | I'm not saying you should run linux permanently from ntfs, I'm saying if you can get any linux at all running, then installing a real one gets way easier. | 02:31 |
| akk | Right now you're asking us, "I have this windows machine that can't talk to anything, how can I do something hard on windows." | 02:31 |
| akk | If you get to the point where you're running any kind of linux at all, then you're asking us "how can I do something hard from linux", which is a way easier question for a linux channel to answer. :) | 02:32 |
| philipballew | so i can install on ntfs, then partition the hard drive well im booted from it.? well i can boot up windows | 02:32 |
| akk | It might be worth trying a repartition first while you're still in windows, so linux doesn't have to try to repartition ntfs. | 02:33 |
| philipballew | can i partition the drive when its booted? | 02:33 |
| philipballew | never seen that | 02:33 |
| rww | Windows XP Pro and above can do online resizing of NTFS, within limits. Dunno about Win2k | 02:34 |
| akk | I think PartitionMagic can; don't know if there are free tools included in W2k (I'm not a windows person at all). | 02:34 |
| akk | Are you sure there isn't already a spare partition? A lot of machines of that era already had them. | 02:34 |
| akk | (and no, I don't know how to check that from windows, but google probably knows) | 02:34 |
| philipballew | neither am i. there might be. i can maybe boot into the recovery mode. | 02:34 |
| philipballew | f8 is safe mode. i know that | 02:35 |
| akk | If there's a recovery mode, it probably has its own partition. But I think safe mode != recovery mode. | 02:35 |
| akk | Windows recovery stores a whole separate copy of windows on its own partition (eating up lots of your disk space). | 02:35 |
| rww | safe mode is a Windows function, recovery mode is a thing your OEM creates | 02:36 |
| akk | also, look in My Computer and see if there's a D: drive :) | 02:36 |
| philipballew | could i just partition a ext3 or whatever part on the laptop then manually put the file system there. then update windows boot loader? | 02:36 |
| philipballew | seemes possible | 02:36 |
| philipballew | me and windows are not friends | 02:37 |
| akk | philipballew: If you have commands inside windows that will do those things. | 02:37 |
| rww | Windows' bootloader can't read ext3, iirc | 02:37 |
| philipballew | ah, thats right. lame windows | 02:37 |
| akk | Yeah, you'd want to install grub (or another linux bootloader) | 02:37 |
| rww | though there might be some extra software that does. iono. | 02:37 |
| * akk wonders if cygwin comes with a dd that can write directly to the disk, copying ext3 and boot partitions | 02:38 | |
| philipballew | well im booted into it now. im gonna download partition magic and see if i can make a ntfs filesystem partition first | 02:40 |
| philipballew | theres no way to reverse a usb cable to be able to see the internal hd on my desktop or somethin is there? | 02:41 |
| * philipballew recals seeing that | 02:41 | |
| * philipballew *recalls | 02:41 | |
| akk | no, you'd have to run software on the windows PC to read the disk and act like an external disk | 02:42 |
| akk | in addition to a different cable | 02:42 |
| akk | macs can do that for firewire, but I haven't seen that with usb (sounds useful, though) | 02:42 |
| philipballew | and that wont work if im installing and whipping windows | 02:42 |
| philipballew | haha | 02:43 |
| philipballew | it would | 02:43 |
| akk | right, you'd be booted off the disk you were trying to write to | 02:43 |
| philipballew | be useful | 02:43 |
| akk | Macs can do it because they have code for it in firmware, afaik. | 02:43 |
| akk | You're sure you can't get those stripped disk screws out? :) | 02:43 |
| philipballew | nope. even home depot laughed and told me not to waste my time | 02:44 |
| akk | Or ... leave the disk in place, but unplug the cable and somehow find space to plug in a long cable that goes to a USB adaptor. | 02:44 |
| philipballew | what do you mean? | 02:44 |
| akk | Well, what would you do if the disk was out of the machine? You'd plug a cable into it, maybe make it work as an external usb disk, so you could plug it into a linux box. Right? | 02:45 |
| akk | So maybe you can do that while it's still screwed into the machine. | 02:45 |
| akk | It still has a connector, and that isn't screwed in. | 02:45 |
| akk | (But there might not be much space to get a different connector in there.) | 02:45 |
| philipballew | i am not sure there is. :( | 02:45 |
| akk | What, they soldered lots of individual wires to the disk? I doubt it. Laptop drives are pretty standard. | 02:46 |
| philipballew | the chip on the hard drive is not remoable due to the screw problem | 02:46 |
| akk | chip? | 02:47 |
| philipballew | computer chip that is screwed onto the hard drive | 02:48 |
| akk | laptop hard drive cable/connector: http://www.insidemylaptop.com/images/Sony-Vaio-PCG-V505DXP/upgrade-laptop-hard-drive-05.jpg | 02:50 |
| akk | I have no idea what kind of chip you'd be trying to remove from a drive -- that sounds like delicate surgery. | 02:50 |
| philipballew | thats my laptop hard drive | 02:51 |
| philipballew | that same one | 02:51 |
| * philipballew should buy that | 02:52 | |
| philipballew | do you have a link where to look at that by any chance akk? | 02:56 |
| philipballew | akgraner, | 02:56 |
| philipballew | oh not you | 02:56 |
| philipballew | akk | 02:56 |
| akk | where to look at what? | 02:56 |
| philipballew | the picture, that looks like it would in theroy work pretty easy | 02:57 |
| akk | the pic came from http://www.insidemylaptop.com/upgrade-hard-drive-sony-vaio-pcg-v505dxp/ | 02:57 |
| akk | I did a google image search for laptop hard drive cable | 02:57 |
| akk | but all I'm suggesting is, unplug the cable | 02:57 |
| akk | then buy an IDE-USB adaptor and plug it into the disk (if there's room) | 02:58 |
| akk | then you can run a USB cable to some linux machine and write to the disk directly, no interference from the windows laptop | 02:58 |
| akk | the "if there's room" is the only tricky part there | 02:59 |
| philipballew | i could probably just run to frys and try it myself sometime | 03:00 |
| akk | IDE/USB enclosures for laptop disks cost about $12; a cable (with no enclosure, and you don't need the enclosure) is probably a little cheaper. | 03:00 |
| akk | In fact, you definitely don't want an enclosure because the connector for that almost certainly won't fit in the space you have. | 03:01 |
| philipballew | E/USB enclosures for laptop disks cost about $12; a cable (with no enclosure, and you don't need the enclosure) is probably a little cheaper. | 03:02 |
| philipballew | oh, stupid xchat, haha | 03:02 |
| akk | (It is also possible to go after those screws, regardless of what they told you at Home Depot. It's a thing called an easy-out, but it's tricky to use and you have to have a power drill too.) | 03:02 |
| philipballew | http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-2-0-IDE-SATA-5-25-S-ATA-2-5-3-5-Adapter-Cable-fa-/160624935484?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2565fe023c | 03:02 |
| philipballew | this might work | 03:02 |
| akk | That's pretty bulky. Do you have that much room next to the hard drive cable? | 03:03 |
| philipballew | probably. i might just have one in my boxes of spare comp parts | 03:04 |
| * philipballew needs to organize that | 03:04 | |
| akk | Something like this is what I was thinking: http://www.laptopharddriveide.com/laptop-hard-drive-ide-3.jpg | 03:05 |
| akk | which still requires space inside the laptop case (wouldn't work in my teeny vaio) | 03:05 |
| philipballew | i think i have that somewhere | 03:05 |
| philipballew | positive | 03:06 |
| philipballew | ill look around and let you know how it goes | 03:07 |
| philipballew | haha, you might be annoyed or happy akk, but I have one and it fits. :) | 03:12 |
| akk | Yay! | 03:12 |
| akk | That makes things much easier! | 03:12 |
| akk | Now installing becomes trivial, and the only hard part is getting grub installed properly onto the disk's MBR. | 03:13 |
| philipballew | well cant i just wipe ms completely and the linux install will install grub. i might install puppy because the laptop only has 256 ram | 03:14 |
| philipballew | or lubuntu. still thinking about that | 03:15 |
| akk | Yeah, as long as you can point the linux installer at the usb disk (make sure it's not pointing at your real disk! :) it'll handle grub for you. | 03:17 |
| akk | Full ubuntu *can* run on that much RAM -- my old Vaio only has 192Mb -- but the desktop will be super slow | 03:17 |
| akk | and things that want 3d, like unity, might not run at all on graphics that old (they lock up my vaio). | 03:18 |
| philipballew | ill probably just unplug the real hd on my desktop tp make things simple | 03:18 |
| akk | openbox is fine, so lubuntu is probably fine; puppy will be a bit faster but a lot more limited. | 03:18 |
| philipballew | how so limited? | 03:19 |
| akk | arch or debian squeeze are faster than ubuntu on slow hardware these days. | 03:19 |
| philipballew | arch is nice | 03:19 |
| philipballew | i have a cli only debian 6 install. could not be happier | 03:20 |
| akk | well, I never had much luck getting puppy to do anything esoteric, but maybe markdude can help with that. | 03:20 |
| philipballew | all i wanna do is have it do some sshing to my other laptops and play music, simple for me i think | 03:20 |
| philipballew | haha | 03:20 |
| akk | (BIAB, have to help d with something) | 03:20 |
| akk | back | 03:29 |
| philipballew | nice! | 03:30 |
| philipballew | i think debian with lxde or openbox might be best for this thing | 03:30 |
| akk | I've been very happy with openbox on old machines like that, even with low memory. | 03:37 |
| akk | Only problem is if you need to use two big bloated programs at the same time, like firefox and openoffice. | 03:38 |
| akk | If you only use one at a time (and don't use too many tabs in firefox) it works okay. | 03:38 |
| philipballew | well i only plan to use the cli on it | 03:38 |
| akk | oh, yeah, for cli it'll be great | 03:39 |
| philipballew | but i want to have several cli sessions at the same time | 03:39 |
| akk | cli on top of X, you mean? since you mentioned lxde/openbox | 03:39 |
| akk | yeah, should be fine | 03:39 |
| philipballew | does debian or ubuntu have a openbox distro, i can always installa cli version and install from there. just as easy | 03:40 |
| rww | you don't need a separate distro, imho. just install openbox on Debian or Ubuntu. | 03:40 |
| akk | Not that I know of, but if you want a lightweight system, install the server/cli version, then add x and openbox and whatever apps you need. | 03:41 |
| philipballew | haha. openbox is a desktop inveirment or is it not? | 03:41 |
| akk | It takes a little longer but you'll end up with a lot less cruft and a lot more disk space. | 03:41 |
| akk | openbox is a window manager | 03:41 |
| philipballew | ive herd its not and its just a windiw manager | 03:41 |
| philipballew | oh.. | 03:41 |
| akk | It's the window manager lxde uses ... lxde is a desktop built on top of openbox. | 03:41 |
| philipballew | yeah, so its gonna be a window manager for my cli? | 03:41 |
| akk | it's a window manager for whatever | 03:42 |
| philipballew | oh. seemes easy | 03:42 |
| seidos | Super $common-irish-name Brothers | 18:44 |
| seidos | hello everyone | 18:44 |
| seidos | mayber Sisters would be better | 18:45 |
| === rbarot__ is now known as rbarot_ | ||
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