philipballewhas anyone ever installed linux over a network. i might need to02:10
rwwDepends on what you mean by "installed linux over a network". I've PXE booted Debian before, if that's what you mean.02:11
rww( http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch04s05.html.en explains that pretty well, though I use dnsmasq instead of dhcp3-server)02:13
philipballewrww well i need to install linox on a laptop i was givin. but it doesnt have a cd drive and wont boot from usb.02:13
philipballewplus the hard drive screws are stripped so i cant take it out...02:13
philipballewits an old laptop. but i figured id set it up and ssh into all my computers i use for real stuff and run top on all thee ssh sessions to know whats goin on02:14
akkIt doesn't have any linux on it yet -- this will be the first one?02:15
akkCan it boot from the network, or only from floppies?02:15
philipballewit also doesnt have a floppy drive02:16
philipballewim not sure if it can boot from the network.02:16
akkWhat kind of laptop is it? Does it have PCMCIA? Is there any chance of borrowing a PCMCIA CDROM drive?02:16
akk(That's how I ended up installing on my old Vaio SR17)02:16
rwwI defer to akk's superior old-stuff experience ;)02:17
akkThere are ways to install Linux starting from Windows, but I don't how well tested they are with modern distros (they apparently worked around 8 years ago :)02:17
philipballewhttp://jrv.oddones.org/solo.html i found this. its what i have, but i only have the actual notebook itself02:17
philipballewit has ms 200002:17
rwwIf it has Windows, you could go with Wubi and all its quirkiness.02:18
akkI have some really old links here (hope some of them are still there): http://shallowsky.com/linux/vaiolinux.html#withoutCD02:18
akkIt did sound complicated -- I was much relieved (though ever so slightly disappointed too) when d got a pcmcia CDROM drive which made the process trivial.02:19
philipballewwubi i hear is buggy02:19
akkThat machine sounds very similar in specs to my old Vaio.02:20
philipballewi feel it might not be possible, maybe though02:20
philipballewakk i cant install it to the drive when its booted into windows can i?02:22
akkYes, that's what those Toshiba Libretto pages I link to are about, assuming you can still get that loadlin program somewhere.02:23
akkThis one is still there: http://www.omote.com/libretto/02:23
akkBut the link for where to get the files is broken ... maybe search on loadlin.exe, and if you get a lot of cruft from that search, add libretto.02:24
akkThe toshiba libretto community definitely had the most info on no-cd installations.02:24
philipballewtrue, this looks like a chalenge02:25
philipballewmight be better to sell the thing as is, but where is the fun in that, haha02:26
akkwimp! :)02:27
philipballewhaha, could i just plug the laptop to my main laptop with say a crossover cable and do it that way you think maybe?02:28
akkAren't there programs to install linux on a DOS/Windows partition, from within windows? Seems like I've read about something like that.02:28
philipballewyeah. but is running linux on ntfs a good idea?02:29
akkIf you can get any form of linux up at all, then you can write stuff to the MBR and make your life a lot easier (e.g. install PLOP so you can boot from USB).02:29
philipballewwhat do you mean?02:29
akkWell, once you have a cmdline, you can write anything you want to the disk02:29
philipballewhow would i even get a cmd line?02:30
* philipballew feels confused02:30
akkSee what I asked above about installing to a win partition ^^02:30
akkI'm not saying you should run linux permanently from ntfs, I'm saying if you can get any linux at all running, then installing a real one gets way easier.02:31
akkRight now you're asking us, "I have this windows machine that can't talk to anything, how can I do something hard on windows."02:31
akkIf you get to the point where you're running any kind of linux at all, then you're asking us "how can I do something hard from linux", which is a way easier question for a linux channel to answer. :)02:32
philipballewso i can install on ntfs, then partition the hard drive well im booted from it.? well i can boot up windows02:32
akkIt might be worth trying a repartition first while you're still in windows, so linux doesn't have to try to repartition ntfs.02:33
philipballewcan i partition the drive when its booted?02:33
philipballewnever seen that02:33
rwwWindows XP Pro and above can do online resizing of NTFS, within limits. Dunno about Win2k02:34
akkI think PartitionMagic can; don't know if there are free tools included in W2k (I'm not a windows person at all).02:34
akkAre you sure there isn't already a spare partition? A lot of machines of that era already had them.02:34
akk(and no, I don't know how to check that from windows, but google probably knows)02:34
philipballewneither am i. there might be. i can maybe boot into the recovery mode.02:34
philipballewf8 is safe mode. i know that02:35
akkIf there's a recovery mode, it probably has its own partition. But I think safe mode != recovery mode.02:35
akkWindows recovery stores a whole separate copy of windows on its own partition (eating up lots of your disk space).02:35
rwwsafe mode is a Windows function, recovery mode is a thing your OEM creates02:36
akkalso, look in My Computer and see if there's a D: drive :)02:36
philipballewcould i just partition a ext3 or whatever part on the laptop then manually put the file system there. then update windows boot loader?02:36
philipballewseemes possible02:36
philipballewme and windows are not friends02:37
akkphilipballew: If you have commands inside windows that will do those things.02:37
rwwWindows' bootloader can't read ext3, iirc02:37
philipballewah, thats right. lame windows02:37
akkYeah, you'd want to install grub (or another linux bootloader)02:37
rwwthough there might be some extra software that does. iono.02:37
* akk wonders if cygwin comes with a dd that can write directly to the disk, copying ext3 and boot partitions02:38
philipballewwell im booted into it now. im gonna download partition magic and see if i can make a ntfs filesystem partition first02:40
philipballewtheres no way to reverse a usb cable to be able to see the internal hd on my desktop or somethin is there?02:41
* philipballew recals seeing that02:41
* philipballew *recalls02:41
akkno, you'd have to run software on the windows PC to read the disk and act like an external disk02:42
akkin addition to a different cable02:42
akkmacs can do that for firewire, but I haven't seen that with usb (sounds useful, though)02:42
philipballewand that wont work if im installing and whipping windows02:42
philipballewit would02:43
akkright, you'd be booted off the disk you were trying to write to02:43
philipballewbe useful02:43
akkMacs can do it because they have code for it in firmware, afaik.02:43
akkYou're sure you can't get those stripped disk screws out? :)02:43
philipballewnope. even home depot laughed and told me not to waste my time02:44
akkOr ... leave the disk in place, but unplug the cable and somehow find space to plug in a long cable that goes to a USB adaptor.02:44
philipballewwhat do you mean?02:44
akkWell, what would you do if the disk was out of the machine? You'd plug a cable into it, maybe make it work as an external usb disk, so you could plug it into a linux box. Right?02:45
akkSo maybe you can do that while it's still screwed into the machine.02:45
akkIt still has a connector, and that isn't screwed in.02:45
akk(But there might not be much space to get a different connector in there.)02:45
philipballewi am not sure there is. :(02:45
akkWhat, they soldered lots of individual wires to the disk? I doubt it. Laptop drives are pretty standard.02:46
philipballewthe chip on the hard drive is not remoable due to the screw problem02:46
philipballewcomputer chip that is screwed onto the hard drive02:48
akklaptop hard drive cable/connector: http://www.insidemylaptop.com/images/Sony-Vaio-PCG-V505DXP/upgrade-laptop-hard-drive-05.jpg02:50
akkI have no idea what kind of chip you'd be trying to remove from a drive -- that sounds like delicate surgery.02:50
philipballewthats my laptop hard drive02:51
philipballewthat same one02:51
* philipballew should buy that02:52
philipballewdo you have a link where to look at that by any chance akk?02:56
philipballewoh not you02:56
akkwhere to look at what?02:56
philipballewthe picture, that looks like it would in theroy work pretty easy02:57
akkthe pic came from http://www.insidemylaptop.com/upgrade-hard-drive-sony-vaio-pcg-v505dxp/02:57
akkI did a google image search for laptop hard drive cable02:57
akkbut all I'm suggesting is, unplug the cable02:57
akkthen buy an IDE-USB adaptor and plug it into the disk (if there's room)02:58
akkthen you can run a USB cable to some linux machine and write to the disk directly, no interference from the windows laptop02:58
akkthe "if there's room" is the only tricky part there02:59
philipballewi could probably just run to frys and try it myself sometime03:00
akkIDE/USB enclosures for laptop disks cost about $12; a cable (with no enclosure, and you don't need the enclosure) is probably a little cheaper.03:00
akkIn fact, you definitely don't want an enclosure because the connector for that almost certainly won't fit in the space you have.03:01
philipballewE/USB enclosures for laptop disks cost about $12; a cable (with no enclosure, and you don't need the enclosure) is probably a little cheaper.03:02
philipballewoh, stupid xchat, haha03:02
akk(It is also possible to go after those screws, regardless of what they told you at Home Depot. It's a thing called an easy-out, but it's tricky to use and you have to have a power drill too.)03:02
philipballewthis might work03:02
akkThat's pretty bulky. Do you have that much room next to the hard drive cable?03:03
philipballewprobably. i might just have one in my boxes of spare comp parts03:04
* philipballew needs to organize that03:04
akkSomething like this is what I was thinking: http://www.laptopharddriveide.com/laptop-hard-drive-ide-3.jpg03:05
akkwhich still requires space inside the laptop case (wouldn't work in my teeny vaio)03:05
philipballewi think i have that somewhere03:05
philipballewill look around and let you know how it goes03:07
philipballewhaha, you might be annoyed or happy akk, but I have one and it fits. :)03:12
akkThat makes things much easier!03:12
akkNow installing becomes trivial, and the only hard part is getting grub installed properly onto the disk's MBR.03:13
philipballewwell cant i just wipe ms completely and the linux install will install grub. i might install puppy because the laptop only has 256 ram03:14
philipballewor lubuntu. still thinking about that03:15
akkYeah, as long as you can point the linux installer at the usb disk (make sure it's not pointing at your real disk! :) it'll handle grub for you.03:17
akkFull ubuntu *can* run on that much RAM -- my old Vaio only has 192Mb -- but the desktop will be super slow03:17
akkand things that want 3d, like unity, might not run at all on graphics that old (they lock up my vaio).03:18
philipballewill probably just unplug the real hd on my desktop tp make things simple03:18
akkopenbox is fine, so lubuntu is probably fine; puppy will be a bit faster but a lot more limited.03:18
philipballewhow so limited?03:19
akkarch or debian squeeze are faster than ubuntu on slow hardware these days.03:19
philipballewarch is nice03:19
philipballewi have a cli only debian 6 install. could not be happier03:20
akkwell, I never had much luck getting puppy to do anything esoteric, but maybe markdude can help with that.03:20
philipballewall i wanna do is have it do some sshing to my other laptops and play music, simple for me i think03:20
akk(BIAB, have to help d with something)03:20
philipballewi think debian with lxde or openbox might be best for this thing03:30
akkI've been very happy with openbox on old machines like that, even with low memory.03:37
akkOnly problem is if you need to use two big bloated programs at the same time, like firefox and openoffice.03:38
akkIf you only use one at a time (and don't use too many tabs in firefox) it works okay.03:38
philipballewwell i only plan to use the cli on it03:38
akkoh, yeah, for cli it'll be great03:39
philipballewbut i want to have several cli sessions at the same time03:39
akkcli on top of X, you mean? since you mentioned lxde/openbox03:39
akkyeah, should be fine03:39
philipballewdoes debian or ubuntu have a openbox distro, i can always installa cli version and install from there. just as easy03:40
rwwyou don't need a separate distro, imho. just install openbox on Debian or Ubuntu.03:40
akkNot that I know of, but if you want a lightweight system, install the server/cli version, then add x and openbox and whatever apps you need.03:41
philipballewhaha. openbox is a desktop inveirment or is it not?03:41
akkIt takes a little longer but you'll end up with a lot less cruft and a lot more disk space.03:41
akkopenbox is a window manager03:41
philipballewive herd its not and its just a windiw manager03:41
akkIt's the window manager lxde uses ... lxde is a desktop built on top of openbox.03:41
philipballewyeah, so its gonna be a window manager for my cli?03:41
akkit's a window manager for whatever03:42
philipballewoh. seemes easy03:42
seidosSuper $common-irish-name Brothers18:44
seidoshello everyone18:44
seidosmayber Sisters would be better18:45
=== rbarot__ is now known as rbarot_

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