[00:00] great! [00:00] thanks for the tip [00:00] no problem [00:00] that's a quite new project also [00:01] the only problem is the title of window is not correctly aligned [00:01] unless I put all buttons in window (shade, stick, max, min and close) [00:02] I couldn't find a solution for this... [00:02] i suppose that's never right in the center if you don't have the same amount of buttons in both sides [00:02] i don't think you can affect that within the theme, it's in the xfwm code [00:03] to find that out, maybe ask in #xfce-dev [00:03] I think the same way [00:03] * ochosi starts reading the log [00:03] OOOH [00:03] the ochosi [00:03] you didn't go to holiday then? :P [00:05] oh! I forgot something: the css3 code that I made is a little messy D: [00:06] I'm not very good in Inkscape, so I had to do the graphics of rain theme in html and CSS [00:06] knome: i'm leaving tomorrow (to shorten the backlog) [00:06] hehe [00:06] the xfwm theme doesn't look bad at all [00:06] raul_, so there is ochosi/simon ^ !! [00:07] hi :) [00:07] the buttons are a bit big, but i like the shades [00:07] hey raul_ [00:07] ochosi, it's quite like the old albatross, right? [00:07] I plan to make a black variant also [00:07] hmyeah, actually one problem that catches my eye is that the minimize button and the menu-button are the same [00:07] that [00:08] that's not a very good idea imo [00:08] yes :( [00:08] raul_: does the theme pick up gtk-colors? [00:08] I do not know what to put in menu button :( [00:08] hm no... D: [00:09] k, well that can be dealt with later (color-pickup) [00:09] I used gcolor2 and I was looking in it until I find a good color [00:09] then I got this mix of blue and gray [00:10] mhm, it should be no problem to do that with color-pickup [00:10] it's a bit of work, but then the xfwm theme will also work with other themes/colors [00:10] I was thinking about removing the menu button because if you right-click it window the popup appears [00:11] yeah, well, that's not really the point :) [00:11] in window* [00:11] i think that a theme for xfwm should be complete, because users might change the default setup [00:11] hmm [00:11] agreed with ochosi [00:12] was also thinking of another icon because it looks like the minimize button [00:12] in your setup it's clear which is the menu button and which is minimize, but everyone can change the button order by d'n'd (and that's a good thing) [00:12] another thing: what happens when you reorder the maximize/minimize/close buttons? [00:12] (i mean visually) [00:13] ochosi: I started the panel review on the ML [00:13] It looks a bit strange :(, I do not know, but xfwm has a limitation on the "padding" button, I'll try to see it [00:13] charlie-tca: yeah, just saw that. thanks! [00:13] raul_: what padding button? (not sure i get it) [00:14] The problem is the rounded corners [00:14] rounded corner of the window? [00:14] or of the buttons [00:14] if all buttons be square, the bug is fixed [00:14] ah, right [00:14] well there are also other things you can do, e.g. only show that 3d-ish border on hover [00:15] or only make the close-button stand out [00:15] but square buttons looks strange too, it doesn't combine with the rounded corners of the window [00:15] yeah, i agree, the effect is nice [00:15] but it comes at a price [00:15] (oh wow, am i speaking in rhymes?) [00:15] haha [00:16] artists... [00:16] ;) [00:16] yeah, i guess it's because i'm sober ;) [00:16] hah, !drunkard [00:16] ;) [00:16] raul_: what are your thoughts on the "-" and "+" greybird uses for maximize and minimize? [00:17] knome: yeah, we should really get the bot back in #shimmer! [00:17] ochosi, i was having some rum earlier... :) [00:17] I will send another screenshot [00:17] http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/2821/screenshot0725201109160.png [00:17] (the focus button) [00:17] that's on hover? [00:17] pressed [00:17] ah [00:17] this theme maybe reminds me of windows vista somehow [00:17] :P [00:17] the not-completely square buttons [00:17] would you mind just sending me the theme via email, so i can test it a bit? [00:17] yeah, it's pretty vista-ish ;) [00:17] I think about increase the inset shadow [00:18] with this i guess people would be bitch-slapping us for looking like mac *and* windows [00:18] this theme is inspired in old longhorn themes and the buttons of google chrome in Windows [00:18] mhm, i see [00:19] and equinox too [00:19] what i like is the separator between menubar and window-borders [00:19] mm [00:19] and the bg-gradient [00:19] :) [00:20] that could even work with the current greybird-buttons [00:20] huh? [00:21] i mean adding a separator between menubar and window-controls/borders [00:21] oh! I forgot, the hover buttons: http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/9222/screenshot0725201109200.png [00:21] ochosi, mm [00:21] (this is the css version) [00:21] mhm [00:22] i'm thinking maybe we can have the window-border with separator on active windows and merged (as in the current greybird theme) in inactive windows [00:22] (yes yes, i know we've been there...) [00:22] haha [00:23] yes, I pa [00:23] planned* [00:23] to make a gtk theme for this xfwm theme [00:23] but I don't know about gtk 2 \: [00:23] knome: well, now that lubuntu is closing in on us theme-wise again, i guess it's a good idea to take a step ahead into the past ;) [00:23] haha [00:23] and "merge" the window and menubar [00:23] like shiki-colors, elementary, ambiance theme and equinox [00:24] raul_: merging them is not too hard [00:24] but first thing you should do for that is support xfwm's gtk-color pickup [00:24] which means you have to have xpm and png icons for every button [00:24] (twice the icons, twice the work to draw/maintain) [00:24] hmm [00:25] http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/5691/buttongm.png [00:25] this is the pressed buttons of min and max [00:25] i like that more than the pressed button of close [00:25] mm [00:26] the light reddish color looks a bit like you couldn't decide between going red or not :) [00:26] ochosi, something like this is what i kind of tried to achieve with the new albatross buttons [00:26] so, I make all buttons with blue color? (hover and pressed?) [00:26] raul_: no, maybe make the red a tad stronger [00:26] knome: if you want we can work more on them when i'm back [00:26] hover or pressed? or the two? [00:26] raul_: don't think i've seen hover of the close-button [00:27] ochosi, yeah, whenever you have time :) [00:27] raul_: +only [00:27] err [00:27] i'm getting tired... [00:27] fine :) http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/4670/closez.png [00:28] this is the hover of close [00:28] mhm [00:28] or I already sent this? [00:28] oO I forgot [00:28] nope, don't think so [00:28] i'm not sure if i like the red hue [00:28] it's a bit dirty, while the other colors look like metallic or something like that [00:28] ok, if you look at the hover of max and min and close, the max/min is 1) a lot more saturated and 2) has a different gradient/glow [00:29] that should be more consistent [00:29] and if the close button be blue too? [00:31] hmmm [00:31] probably, then it's less vista-ish i guess [00:32] fine, I'll change :) [00:32] thanks [00:32] if it's blue too, then it won't have the contrast to the other buttons any more [00:32] np, i'm just telling you what i think :) [00:32] it might be white as well [00:32] hm D: [00:33] maybe orange? [00:33] hm, no D: [00:33] or navy blue [00:37] Well, if I rearrange the buttons (max, min and close), some of them don't have the side edge. I tried to put a negative value in the "spacing button" but didn't work [00:37] button spacing, I mean [00:38] mhm [00:39] don't think there's much you can do about that [00:40] http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/991/closeminmax.png I don't have any idea how to fix this \: [00:40] raul_: as i said, i don't think it's really fixable [00:40] oh, sorry [00:41] btw, you can test the changes i did (and am doing) to greybird by downloading it from our git-repository [00:42] is this repository https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird right? [00:42] raul_, yes [00:42] the xubuntu 11.10 will come with gtk 3? [00:42] (thanks) [00:43] Xubuntu 11.10 will use gtk2, but we have to include gtk3 for the parts we borrow from Ubuntu [00:43] It's kind of complicated. [00:44] it basically means we have to have two themes, one for gtk2 and one for gtk3 apps [00:44] that's why I decided to don't start making a gtk theme for this xfwm theme, because I don't know if I'd use 3 or GK2 [00:44] gtk 3 or 2 [00:45] gtk2 I know a bit [00:45] but some engines like murrine, no :( [00:46] hm, the github is very slow today, 6.0 kb/s [00:47] lucky for you the tarball isn't very large ;) [00:48] :P [00:48] 4 min left, but chrome can't finish the download [00:48] pff, that's annoying [00:48] are you sure it's github's fault? [00:48] I think yes :( 'cause my other downloads are normal [00:49] (I pause them) [00:49] 8 min :| [00:49] I think is the https [00:50] hm, the download failed [00:50] weird [00:50] works fine for me... [00:50] I removed the "https" [00:50] and is 27 kb/s now [00:50] https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/tarball/master [00:50] did you use this address? [00:50] yes [00:51] hmkay [00:51] but if I put the https [00:51] I can't download [00:52] to the worst try again later/tomorrow [00:52] looks very great! [00:52] I like the main colour [00:52] and the panels [00:53] thanks [00:53] nice to hear [00:53] a inset shadow in the button of active window would be great in my opinion [00:54] like ambiance [00:54] how exactly? [00:55] http://design.canonical.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/theme_image04.png [00:55] Like this [00:55] see the "broadcast" button [00:56] still not sure i get it. what exactly? [00:56] oh [00:56] you mean on the panel? [00:56] the shadow :) [00:56] of the active window button [00:56] yeah, but on the panel :) [00:56] yes:) [00:56] i thought you were talking about window-buttons [00:56] I like the albatross panel buttons too [00:57] yeah, that could look nice, i'll consider it [00:57] the albatross panel buttons have more details [00:57] I tried to make a modification of greybird with the albatross panels but I don't know [00:58] I couldn't to this, I think is because of the difference of the gtk engines [00:58] greybird generally uses a very flat panel style [00:58] nope, they both use murrine for that afaik [00:58] strange .-. [00:59] the xubuntu 11.10 will have the overlay scrollbars too? [01:00] probably not by default [01:01] so, I can send my xfwm theme via e-mail? [01:01] I can upload in skydrive/mediafire too [01:01] no, email is better [01:02] xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com, right? [01:02] hm, yeah, if you want it to be public, then send it to the mailing-list [01:03] Hm... which another e-mail I can send? [01:03] simon@ & pasi@shimmerproject.org [01:03] you can also send it to me if you like :) [01:04] knome posted his and my email addr avobe [01:04] arr, above [01:04] adobe?! [01:06] thanks I sent the e-mail [01:06] with the css file too [01:06] k, thanks! [01:06] thanks [01:07] :) I find a hack to get the buttons with the window line [01:07] I left a blank space in active close/max/min button [01:07] raul_, so if we will use some of your work, what name should we use in the attribution, and what license too? [01:07] GPL (I use greybird xfwm theme for this) [01:08] and "Raul de Sousa" [01:08] okay, thanks [01:08] I don't have twitter, and this e-mail is not my main e-mail [01:08] I pretend to migrate to g-mail soon [01:08] hehe [01:08] raul_: hm, the buttons feel a bit bulky and big tbh [01:08] I don't like hotmail D: [01:08] and the color doesn't match the new greybird-blue :) [01:09] if you are changing your email, can you send mail from that when you've migrated, so we'lll get the right address too [01:09] hmm, which colour I can use? [01:09] a light colour? [01:09] either implement gtk-color pickup (as previously mentioned) or redraw all the icons each time the colors in the gtk theme change by hand :) [01:09] that's approximately the options you have [01:10] unless you decide to keep the colors static, no matter what theme is used [01:10] hmm, so I will modify the css code and print the page again [01:10] yeah, that's also an option [01:10] but I don't understand the gtk color pickup yet :( [01:10] can you explain please? [01:10] about the gtk* [01:10] k, it's not that difficult: [01:11] I'm a novice in themes [01:11] you create an xpm-version of each button, then you edit the xpm-file (that you created e.g. in gimp) with a text-editor and edit the line that contains the main bg-color [01:12] you can read about how to do that step here: http://wiki.xfce.org/howto/xfwm4_theme [01:12] xpm can be edited in a text-editor? o_O [01:12] yes [01:12] I didn't know that [01:12] xpm is kinda oldschool, but very cool [01:12] interesting [01:12] so that's the first part [01:12] but why I have to do this with the theme? [01:12] is something like rgb colours etc? [01:13] obviously you can take almost any color from the gtk-theme and then your xfwm theme will "pick up" the color you selected from the gtk-theme you're using at the moment [01:13] meaning: it will change when you switch themes [01:13] chameleon-style [01:14] so I have to make png files too, right? [01:14] but xfwm doesn't use them :| [01:15] yes, because with xpm there's a problem: no antialiasing and no transparency [01:15] example: the rounded corners window, doesn't have a anti-aliasing [01:15] you mean the edges? [01:15] yeah, the edges aren't 100% smooth [01:16] but that's mostly a rendering issue of xwfm's compositor, there's nothing you can do about that (as a themer) [01:16] so I have to edit only the parts that contain active_hilight_2, active_color_2 etc? [01:16] you can only adjust the rounded corners to either dark or light background [01:17] well... [01:17] you can start with that [01:17] or everything? [01:17] omg :P [01:17] but e.g. for the gradient in the title, you have to do something else [01:17] there you have to create an xpm that is flat (only a single color) [01:18] then you create a transparent gradient in gimp and save that as png [01:18] that'll serve as overlay to create the actual gradient [01:18] and since the png overlays the xpm you'll then get a gradient on your window that can change background color [01:18] But if I leave my theme as it is, it will happen some bug in xfwm-compositor? [01:18] it works like with layers in gimp [01:18] no [01:19] you can also leave your theme as is [01:19] but then it won't adjust to color changes [01:19] (auto-adjust) [01:19] ahh! now I understand it :P [01:19] finally [01:19] like elementary xfwm theme? [01:19] heh :) [01:19] just an example, try greybird's xfwm theme with a dark gtktheme [01:19] I notice that it changed to black when I apply a theme here [01:19] yeah, actually i did that theme ;) [01:20] :D [01:20] but anyhoo, yeah, also like elementary's xfwm [01:20] k, since that's clear now i'll leave you :) [01:20] I will study the xpm in this weekend, because I don't have so much time available :( [01:20] have fun and good night everyone! [01:21] night simon! [01:21] have a nice holiday [01:21] good night and thanks! [01:21] raul_: yeah, no rush with anything, i won't be back till next week ;) [01:21] knome: thanks, see ya! [01:21] ochosi, tue? [01:21] yup [01:21] okay, see you then! [01:21] ok, thanks again! [01:21] raul_, you're welcome :) [01:21] * ochosi waves [01:22] \o/ [01:22] | [01:22] /'\ [01:22] bye [01:22] * ochosi loves knome's ascii art [01:22] hihi [01:22] me too [01:22] and i'm off... [01:22] :P [01:24] I will leave too [01:24] goodbye and thanks :) [01:24] raul_, bye, and see you too [01:25] hey! I have a question about IRC [01:25] sure [01:25] I didn't understand the ISP e-mail address in my profile [01:25] right [01:25] I never used the irc before, today is my first day on it [01:26] I'm a bit paranoic with security [01:26] the username (before @) is what your username in the machine is, and the part after @ is your address [01:26] if you want to hide that, you probably want a cloak [01:26] hmm, but why I'm the only who have my username as my machine? [01:27] oh, well [01:27] huh? [01:27] http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks <- on cloacks [01:27] -c [01:27] hm thanks! [01:27] in most irc clients, you can set the username to whatever you want [01:28] (the part before @) [01:28] but this don't have any problem? [01:28] yeah, many people irc with no cloaks and username as is [01:29] but if you want, you can get the cloak to hide your host address [01:30] i'm back [01:30] sorry, my HD is broken so xchat froze [01:30] a-ha [01:31] now your ip shows [01:31] omg DD: [01:31] I'm so paranoic [01:31] that's actually something you can't control, without that cloak [01:31] how can I hide this? I didn't understand yet [01:31] read the question in http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks [01:31] so I will not come back anymore [01:32] well, good bye D: [02:57] Kubuntu is dropping gtk3 off their cd's tomorrow [03:32] That's a little too much for scroll back, anyone mind my lazyness and give me the jist of the raul part? :P (Wanting to give a xfwm theme) [08:34] the current feedback for the panel layout is "meh". It seems they didn't even look at the layout in natty [09:52] maybe somebody should send a screenshot of the default natty panels in the ML then [12:57] micahg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/652408/ (diff of the manifest file between alpha2 and today) so pinyin is probably the culprit [14:28] mr_pouit: is there a way for me to do that or do you just have local copies? [14:44] of the manifest? I took them from cdimages.ubuntu.com [15:18] I've looked deep into Plymouth, its all very smooth and neat, I am formulating a message for the ML about the theme, I will need to talk to the artists about what features they require, what they want animated etc [15:18] Here is what it looks like when you use the current bg, i think it looks pretty neat, http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/plymouth.png [15:18] ochosi was the artist right? [15:23] yes, ochosi is the artist, but is on holiday for the next week [15:23] I like that screenshot [15:25] oh okay [15:26] I found this on the mailingl ist [15:26] http://lehrer.schule.at/goell-pregesbauer//wp-content/xubuntu_logo_suggestion_3.gif [15:26] Anyone know who made that? [15:29] I don't know, and with knowing, we can't use it [15:30] Maybe knome or ochosi will know [15:30] yup :) [15:30] The problem is, that is an old logo [15:30] oh okay [15:30] We no longer use that one [15:31] Here are the new ones - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork [15:37] I'm not sure what to put in the email :( [15:37] mr_pouit: ah, right, alpha2 is there as well as the daily :) [15:42] madnick: something along the lines of: [15:43] I am designing a new plymouth screen for Xubuntu. Here is what I have so far, what else should be in this? [15:46] okay, well, if the artist wishes, he could really get free hands and ill just code, otherwise i need to know a few things; should a new background be used instead of xubuntu-greybird? The progressbar, do we want something fancier? FSCK leaves us alot of oppertunities for cool stuff [15:46] Those are questions to ask, in the email, then. [15:46] yes [15:46] :) [15:47] Then you get to say what *you* want the artist to animate, too. [15:48] point to keep in mind, if we put in a background, it may stay there for a very long time. [15:48] :) [15:48] yeah [17:46] charlie-tca: thank you! :) [17:47] You are welcome [20:18] good evening [20:19] remember yesterday storm i was telling you about? well it broke lots of electricity lines and i wont be having power there for like 3 days [20:23]