[00:13] jasoncwarner_, hey [00:14] robert_ancell: hey [00:14] getting ready for holiday? long flight to EU? [00:14] jasoncwarner_, sure am. Haven't heard of any LightDM issues? [00:15] I haven't heard anything yet. [00:18] jasoncwarner_, yes, paris first, then berlin, then switzerland before heading back [00:19] Awesome. Sounds fun! [01:21] Discovering gsettings schemas and keys from the command-line is much easier than it was with gconf. === asac_ is now known as asac [02:29] kenvandine: why does gwibber depend on gir1.2-wnck-1.0 instead of gir1.2-wnck-3.0? [02:29] gwibber-accounts is still gtk2 [02:29] and it is python [02:29] so to drop the python-wnck dep [02:30] i ported it to use wnck-1.0 via gir [02:31] oh ok, gwibber is part gtk2 and part gtk3 now, right? [02:31] that's um ... not supported [02:31] well, the gwibber client is pure gtk3 [02:31] but gwibber-accounts is a different executable [02:32] that is much harder to port, all the service plugins include their bits of pygtk that get embedded in the accounts dialog [02:32] i would love to find a volunteer to do that though :) [02:32] or i'll get to it for 3.4 :) [03:35] dist-upgrade for lightdm still a no go, the old greeter is removed, but the new one isn't installed [03:38] * micahg thinks this is a bug in apt [03:46] Bah! At what point did dkms become so frustratingly silent? No logs, no console output, no --verbose option. [03:52] * micahg is testing a lightdm fix [04:06] * micahg gives up and leaves it for someone else [04:09] * micahg guesses transitional packages are the way to go here [04:22] wow, even transitional packages didn't work... [04:37] Argh. What the dizzying dkms? [04:38] Ah. When you say a parameter is optional you are in fact lying through your teeth. Got it. [04:44] lol [05:03] Aha. bug #812979 is the nvidia problem. [05:03] Launchpad bug 812979 in dkms "Kernel modules are not built when the kernel is upgraded" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/812979 [05:53] good morning [05:53] hum, spent 30 minutes fighting with lightdm [06:05] didrocks: Morning. [06:05] hey TheMuso! [06:16] * didrocks reboots [06:25] ok, works now :) [06:29] good morning, all [06:31] hey desrt! [06:31] hi didrocks [06:38] good morning everyone [06:39] Morning chrisccoulson [06:39] hey chrisccoulson [06:40] hi RAOF, didrocks [07:05] chrisccoulson: btw, if you need testing of the cache fix patch, I have it reliably at every start if I don't use the magical option [07:06] didrocks, it's definitely the same error in the error console? [07:06] I can check again, didn't look today [07:06] uno momento [07:06] thanks [07:08] chrisccoulson: tree is undefined …folderPane.js 889 [07:08] thanks [07:08] yw :) [07:47] Good Morning. [07:49] RAOF: hmmm, debian also has a dep on cli-common-dev (one thing it uses from there is /usr/bin/al) [07:49] * Sweetshark tries another build [07:49] Morning all! [07:57] hey [08:04] good morning [08:05] is anybody up for reviewing indicator-bug? [08:06] it's a python indicator which displays bugs for a certain project in a indicator and it regularly polls Launchpad to notify the user when there are new bugs that match the defined settings [08:06] The following packages have unmet dependencies: [08:06] x264 : Depends: libswscale1 (>= 4:0.7~~) but it is not going to be installed or [08:06] libswscale-extra-1 (>= 4:0.7~~) but it is not going to be installed [08:06] I already have an advocate and I am looking for a second one [08:07] http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=9151 [08:07] dholbach told me that he found it very easy to review, so it should not take much time away [08:08] I would be very grateful for your help [08:16] hey oier, will try to have it reviewed today [08:16] it would probably work better with a bug with ubuntu-sponsors subscribed though [08:17] not sure many people check on what is on revu otherwise [08:17] xclaesse, what ubuntu version? what command do you run? [08:17] seb128, oneiric [08:17] seb128, sudo apt-get install x264 [08:18] seb128, did upgrade from natty to oneiric and I can't read x264 videos anymore [08:18] thanks seb128, you mean I should subscribe ubuntu-sponsors on the needes packaging bug (#811837)? [08:18] xclaesse, there is a x264 transition it seems, should be sorted later today, wrong timing [08:19] oier, yes, so it would show up on http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/ [08:19] oier, which is what people check usually [08:19] seb128, ok, just wanted to be sure the issue is known :) [08:19] thanks [08:19] yw [08:19] so should I paste the revu link on the launchpad bug? [08:20] oier, yes [08:20] ok [08:20] good to know [08:20] oier, sorry it took a while, better to make sure it shows on the sponsoring list if you want some reviews usually [08:20] not sure who still use REVU nowadays [08:21] that's probably a workflow we should fix [08:21] I read on the guide that that is how you are supposed to get new packages which aren't in debian [08:21] oier, yeah sorry about that [08:22] different people in Ubuntu have different opinions and workflow [08:22] I will check if REVU still has active reviewers [08:22] hey seb128, how are you? [08:22] but in doubt it doesn't hurt to do what you just did now [08:22] i.e add a bug with sponsors and an url to the REVU [08:22] so it shows up on both places [08:22] hey chrisccoulson, I'm fine thanks, how are you? [08:23] seb128, yeah, good thanks [08:23] chrisccoulson, did you daughter let you sleep this night? [08:23] seb128, yeah, she slept all the way through :) [08:23] great! ;-) [08:24] hey rodrigo_ [08:24] morning [08:24] rodrigo_, I've bugs for you!!! [08:24] rodrigo_, joking, don't run away ;-) [08:24] rodrigo_, how are you? [08:25] * rodrigo_ runs [08:25] rodrigo_: howdy [08:25] seb128, I'm fine and you? [08:25] hey jbicha [08:25] hey jbicha! [08:25] rodrigo_, I'm great thanks [08:25] seb128, one more questions. Once my package is in universe, how do I update it when there are new ubuntu releases? do I have to upload a new version to revu again? [08:26] oier: no, just open a sponsoring request [08:26] hey geser [08:26] geser, do you know if REVU is still used? [08:27] rodrigo_: what do you think about adding gnome-tweak-tool as one of your System Settings stub launchers? [08:27] oier, what geser said, either do a merge request or open a bug with the update and subscribe sponsors [08:27] jbicha, hmm, not sure [08:28] seb128: hi, I guess not much if at all as we try to push people to get their package into Debian (and sync later) [08:29] jbicha, but I guess we could do it [08:29] geser, should we just move new packages to use the normal sponsoring process? [08:29] ok, but when I open a bug and subscribe sponsors I just link to where the source is. Is the usual proceedure to attach the orig.tar.gz file to the bug? [08:29] jbicha, we've already "broken" the shell, so one more is ok :) [08:29] RAOF: I have now mono-devel and libmono-2.0-dev installed, hack a call to mkbundle2 to call mkbundle, and the pkg-config call in configure to check module mono-2 instead of mono, sprinkled in some glib2 cflags here and there, but I still get an error: [08:30] oier, the easier is to have a watch file pointing to your tarball and do a merge request on lp:ubuntu/source with the update [08:30] seb128, did the grepping for g-p-m bus service end? [08:30] rodrigo_, "sort of", I went to bed before it was done and since I forget to start a screen I stopped it, I got it running again now though [08:31] Sweetshark: Hurray? [08:32] seb128, ok, let me know when it's done, I'd like to upload any needed package today, as tomorrow I'll be on vacation :) [08:32] rodrigo_, ok [08:32] RAOF: yeah, right. [08:32] * Sweetshark tries to get a clean build [08:33] seb128: I've no real idea about this yet. Not sure if using the normal sponsoring process will work out or if it will only clog the sponsoring queue. Part of the REVU problem is that many packagers vanish once their package is in the archive and those packages bit-rod till they get removed years later. [08:34] Sweetshark: You haven't posted the error message yet. Do you want me to have a quick gander? [08:34] RAOF, hey [08:34] seb128: Ho! [08:34] RAOF, how is colord packaging going? [08:34] seb128: It's done; it needs only a sponsor. [08:34] RAOF, having it in and mir-ed before ff would be nice [08:35] RAOF, oh, where is it? [08:35] RAOF: I want to try it from a mostly clean build. hang on a sec [08:35] RAOF, you should subscribe ubuntu-sponsors...wait you are not motu? [08:35] seb128: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=collab-maint/colord.git [08:35] RAOF, oh, you want it in debian [08:35] Yah. [08:35] Well, and I need a reviewer before uploading to Ubuntu to match our policy anyway. [08:36] So they might as well also be a DD :). [08:36] RAOF, did you do any pinging around on the debian side? [08:36] I've done a little, but not a great deal. [08:36] k [08:36] I will ping the #debian-gnome guys [08:37] do you have an itp bug or something? [08:37] I find getting stuff sponsored in Debian frustrating, so there's a high activation energy :( [08:37] yeah, that's what I don't agree with geser and others [08:38] trying to push people to get their stuff in Debian is just pushing them in a wall that they will hit, which leads to frustrations and contributors running away [08:38] It depends greatly on what you're pushing, I find. [08:39] If there's an amenable team, then great - debian-x and pkg-cli-* are both welcoming and easy to deal with. [08:39] I'm not going to be popular with this one but I think we should stop trying to get new softwares in universe or in the archive [08:39] we should let people maintain their softwares in a ppa and make it easy to search in ppa from the packaging tools [08:39] well for things like this one which are a desktop component will still need to them in though [08:40] I broadly agree with you. I think we'd need make it possible to trust PPAs a little more first, though. [08:40] RAOF, yeah, pkg-gnome is fine as well [08:40] RAOF, well ppa combined with rating and reviews get you somewhat the "trust" level [08:41] seb128: the ITP is http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=633518 [08:41] Debian bug 633518 in wnpp "ITP: colord -- system service to manage device colour profiles" [Wishlist,Open] [08:41] Some way of blessing “project PPAs’ would be good. [08:41] jbicha, thanks [08:41] jbicha: Thanks. wnpp takes *ages* to come up here! [08:41] RAOF, well then you are back at the issue of having a board needing to do review and approval work [08:41] it was in my Firefox history so it was easy [08:41] seb128: I agree with you, most of the packages on REVU could easily use a PPA instead. And only packages with a team who cares about them (e.g. kubuntu or ubuntu-desktop) should be added to the archive directly [08:42] seb128: seems your idea is more popular that you initialy thought then! :) [08:42] didrocks, ;-) [08:42] people get all sorts of confused when they try to upgrade with PPAs though [08:42] seb128: Well, not necessarily - it's already very nearly possible with existing Launchpad infrastructure. [08:42] I mean, for projects hosted on Launchpad, at least. [08:42] RAOF, I've pointed #debian-gnome to the itp and vcs, let's see if somebody picks it [08:43] jbicha: we need to make that easier for upstream then [08:43] oh, you mean, upgrade [08:43] jbicha, why? [08:43] indeed [08:43] because update-manager disable the ppas? [08:44] and we are not sure there is a build under the next ubuntu release pocket [08:44] (but ppa could maybe automatically rebuild when a new version is out?) [08:44] jbicha, why does libcryptui needs a mir? what in main is using it? [08:44] didrocks, we don't do rebuilds in the archive either [08:44] or copy :) [08:44] didrocks: Or update manager could check whether the PPAs have an upgrade path. [08:44] just makes then available [08:44] didrocks, we clone the archive when a new serie open [08:44] them* [08:44] and then we get solutions like this one: https://lkubuntu.wordpress.com/2011/06/27/easy-way-to-remove-404-messages-on-apt-get-update/ [08:45] urg [08:45] seb128: seahorse depends on that library (or ought to) [08:45] jbicha, no it doesn't [08:45] hum [08:46] hmmmm, i'm not sure how i can make thunderbird get focus when you click on it in the messaging menu :/ [08:46] we seem to be a little screwed by internal API limitations [08:46] chrisccoulson: That's it. Time to drop thunderbird for evolution! :D [08:46] lol [08:47] we would win calendar integration for free! [08:47] seb128: hmm, let me check then [08:47] Thinking of MIRs - could I get the wayland protocol MIR bumped up? I'd like to enable support in mesa in the rc3 upload, which will hopefully be soon (whenever upstream gets their git in order). [08:47] RAOF, speaking of wayland does it still need cairo-gl? [08:48] RAOF: http://pastebin.com/2zLvuybV [08:48] RAOF, I will give a nudge to mterry to see if he can get the wayland mir ball rolling [08:48] seb128: Yes and no. The wayland server library itself never did, but the demo-compositor does. There's now a non-cairo-gl demo compositor, so it's not as much of an issue. [08:49] seb128: In short - turn off cairo-gl support whenever you want to. [08:49] ok [08:49] RAOF, if we don't solve the nvidia issue we will have to again for oneiric [08:49] rodrigo_, [08:49] ./update-manager-0.152.7/DistUpgrade/utils.py: Send a dbus signal to org.gnome.PowerManager to not suspend [08:49] seb128: ok, maybe it doesn't need libcryptui, the commit message & NEWS is ambiguous [08:49] rodrigo_, that's the first match out of gnome-control-center that you didn't update it [08:50] jbicha, well, I built the new seahorse there, uploaded and it built on the buildds [08:50] jbicha, so I'm pretty confident it doesn't need the lib ;-) [08:50] seb128: Right. At some point we'll want this to be fixed; we can only kick that can down the road for so long. [08:51] RAOF, right, well I'm just saying [08:52] seb128: ok, I guess it's only seahorse-plugins that depends on it, but seahorse-plugins is in main [08:52] seb128, ok, working on it [08:52] jbicha, isn't seahorse-plugins deprecated? [08:52] rodrigo_, do a merge request for mvo I'm sure he will happily review it [08:52] seb128, yeah :) [08:53] seb128: Yeah. We can happily kill it for now. Sometime in the next couple of cycles we should probably schedule some work to fix it once and for all. Like a giant ice cube! [08:53] seb128: well, it sort of still works, it's just not really maintained [08:53] seb128: is it your intention to be following 3.0 or 3.2? [08:53] RAOF, ok, I think I will turn it off early, no point to keep it annoying users if we know it's not going to be solved this cycle [08:53] desrt, GNOME? [08:54] seb128: is there anything else? :) [08:54] GTK [08:54] both. [08:54] desrt, weird question since we are on GNOME 3.1.4 and I keep nagging you about unstable glib and gtk [08:54] desrt, but anyway 3.1 and we are mostly uptodate [08:54] seb128: i didn't know what gnome you're following [08:54] just glib/gtk [08:55] desrt, weren't you there at UDS pushing us to say 3.1 which we agreed on? ;-) [08:55] seb128: we agree on lots of things at UDS that i discover to be less true than i hoped :) [08:55] desrt, see versions url in the topic has well which has current oneiric versions lists [08:55] ah. nice. [08:55] desrt, but yea, we follow 3.1 and got most of 3.1.4 packaged already [08:56] I get a lot of these when building with bzr bd: [08:56] perl: warning: Setting locale failed. [08:56] perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings: [08:56] LANGUAGE = (unset), [08:56] LC_ALL = (unset), [08:56] LC_TIME = "es_ES.utf8", [08:56] LC_MONETARY = "es_ES.utf8", [08:56] LC_MEASUREMENT = "es_ES.utf8", [08:56] LC_NUMERIC = "es_ES.utf8", [08:56] LANG = "en_US.UTF-8" [08:56] are supported and installed on your system. [08:56] perl: warning: Falling back to the standard locale ("C"). [08:56] rodrigo_, seems like your locale is incorrectly set [08:56] seb128, rodrigo_ what is the problem with u-m? [08:57] seb128: i see lots of green :) [08:57] mvo, gpm is moved to gsd so the dbus interface is renamed [08:57] which sort of suck [08:57] mvo, it uses g-p-m's dbus interface, which is gone to g-s-d, so the bus name needs a change [08:57] mvo, I'll submit a branch in a bit [08:57] GNOME should consider dbus interfaces as APIs and keep those stable ;-) [08:58] seb128: we're moving away from that, in fact [08:58] it's a royal pain in the arse, with little advantage [08:58] killall dconf-service and be happy :) [08:58] rodrigo_, ./gdm-3.0.4/gui/simple-greeter/gdm-greeter-panel.c:#define GPM_DBUS_NAME "org.gnome.PowerManager" [08:58] desrt, hum? [08:59] desrt, well, update-manager for example talk to org.gnome.gpm to tell it to not suspend during dist-upgrade [08:59] seb128: it's widely becoming apparent that attempting to maintain API stability on dbus interfaces is a substantial investment [08:59] desrt, there is no "restart the service and the code will work with org.gnome.gsd being the inteface to talk to" [08:59] desrt, well then you need libs wrapping the interface and use those [08:59] seb128: exactly. [09:00] seb128: as i understand it, we will see this a bit more often going forward [09:00] desrt, which is not what we have for it session signals [09:00] or power signals [09:00] it->i.e [09:00] seb128: particularly with the new GDBus binding generation stuff [09:00] then those libraries will have stable API [09:00] well, works for me, as long as the "public interface" is stable [09:01] nod. [09:01] thanks rodrigo_ and seb128 [09:01] because otherwise it sucks [09:01] especially if you rename things like the dbus interface for screen saver inhibition [09:01] or in this case suspend inhibition [09:02] it means all the softwares "out there" which are often non GNOME ones break in some way [09:02] those could be skype or vlc or mplayer or whatever [09:02] i always get slightly nervous when i see random software poking someone else's dbus interface :) [09:02] i.e things that don't synchronize with GNOME [09:02] desrt, well that's what GNOME people recommend to do to inhibit the screensaver [09:02] seb128: i know. i don't think it's the greatest policy. [09:03] alas. [09:03] yeah, we should have a libdesktop wrapping around all those dbus "desktop" apis [09:03] like session, screensaver, power, etc [09:03] yes, I guess power interface should be a freedesktop one [09:04] seb128: libgio is supposed to be this interface, supposedly [09:04] seems weird for screensaver and such, though [09:04] maybe we should consider using gtk... [09:04] yes [09:04] no libdesktop :) [09:04] i'll raise the point with matthias [09:04] or gio itself [09:05] although it seems to be too desktop-specific [09:05] so yeah, gtk makes sense === tkamppeter__ is now known as tkamppeter [09:05] we can implement it with gioextensions [09:05] gtk would just be the public interface [09:05] individual environments would be free to provide overrides [09:06] "stop the screensaver" is not in such a different league as "give me a tray icon" [09:06] seb128: stop screensaver, suspend... anything else you can think of that might fit well here? [09:08] desrt, not sure, we have a bunch of "useful interfaces" like im status [09:08] or mounting interfaces [09:08] we have mounting stuff in gio already [09:09] right [09:09] so no, nothing else I can think about right now [09:09] the most common one is "let my screen alone, I watch a movie" [09:09] the inhibit suspend one is useful as well for things like upgrades [09:11] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=655398 [09:11] Gnome bug 655398 in gtk "provide API for inhibit screensaver/suspend/etc" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed] [09:11] we'll see how the discussion goes [09:11] desrt, thanks [09:11] thanks for the suggestion :) [09:12] rodrigo_, ok, so it seems the only things using the old gpm interface are g-c-c that you just fixed, update-manager and gdm [09:13] seb128: seahorse has a ubuntu-desktop branch [09:14] jbicha, yes like most of GNOME components installed by default ;-) [09:14] but you didn't push to it yesterday [09:14] hum, sorry, I used it, I probably forgot to bzr push [09:14] checking [09:15] jbicha, done [09:16] seb128, ok, almost done with gdm, so update-manager only missing [09:18] Sweetshark: Bah, sorry, missed that pastebin. Also sorry that I can't be any help; I've got no idea what's missing there :/ [09:19] seb128: is pitti the best guy to talk about with regard a regression in managing an audio player? In Natty he fixed it so that the sansa fuse showed up and fired up banshee/shotwell however in oneiric it isn't again, or is this something yet to implement? [09:20] better to open a bug, for one thing pitti is away for 2 weeks [09:21] RAOF: I just kicked out a huge bunch of the creepy mono patches, now it seems to build. hopefully, I will also pack (and be halfway sensible at what it packs). [09:22] seb128: will do [09:32] chrisccoulson, did you need gnome-keyring sponsoring? [09:33] seb128, libgnome-keyring needs sponsoring [09:33] ok [09:33] i need to package p11-kit before gnome-keyring though don't i? [09:33] that's on my list for today :) [09:34] indeed you need it ;-) [09:34] great! [09:35] woohoo, focus issue fixed in thundebird [09:35] chrisccoulson, where is libgnome-keyring? [09:35] turned out to be a simple error :) [09:35] nice [09:35] seb128, 1 second, i will host it somewhere [09:38] seb128: mterry was wanting someone to be a bug subscriber for the transmission mirs, would ubuntu-desktop be a good choice? [09:39] jbicha, no, desktop-bugs rather [09:39] that's the team we use to track desktop bugs, it avoids spamming ubuntu-desktop members ;-) [09:39] ok, could you do that then? :-) [09:40] sure [09:45] this mornings update of lightdm seems a bit broken it isn't starting is there an ubuntu-bug hook for lightdm yet, if not what logs will be useful? [09:45] seb128, http://people.canonical.com/~chrisccoulson/libgnome-keyring/ [09:45] nice and easy ;) [09:48] chrisccoulson, ;-) [09:57] woho, "building module postprocess" [09:58] chrisccoulson: hey, have you heard about any bug in thunderbird which change the preferred smtp sender behind your back? [09:59] and a crash :/ [10:00] tb seems like a lot of fun ;-) [10:00] seb128: at least with me :-) [10:00] didrocks, i haven't heard anything like that. what's the symptom? [10:00] I do not want to generalize :) [10:01] chrisccoulson: well, from yesterday, the default smtp was set to gmail instead of my canonical onen [10:01] chrisccoulson: and I'm sure I didn't change any value [10:01] so, I had to set it back [10:03] mvo, a present for you -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/update-manager/use-new-power-interface/+merge/69422 :-D [10:04] * mvo hugs rodrigo_ [10:05] :D [10:29] what do you guys think: is is ok to upload libreoffice without the mono bridge package for now? for oneiric? [10:29] does anything actually use it? [10:31] what is the mono bridge doing? [10:31] mono bindings to the lo api [10:32] you can write lo plugins in c# for example [10:32] seb128: it provides UNO bindings to mono (i.e. you can write remote control LibreOffice from an mono app). It dont think anybody uses it anyway. [10:33] well if it has no rdepends in the archive seems fine to drop for a bit [10:33] FWIW it is not even published as part of the "official" builds on libreoffice.org -- its novells own go-oo patchery ... [10:34] yeah, drop it [10:35] seb128: ok, then I have a 3.4.1 build for oneiric ;D [10:35] i'd suggest debian do the same [10:37] seb128, I just sent cjwatson a mail about adding gdm to the desktop packageset, I hope that's ok, right? [10:37] sure [10:37] ok, that's why I did it before asking :) [10:38] ;-) [10:46] Laney, hey, did you plan to upload the new tomboy to oneiric as well or should I just rebase on your debian update and upload? [10:48] seb128: doing it now [10:49] like, right now [10:49] Laney, thanks! [11:05] does bzr push send tags too? [11:06] Laney, yes [11:06] cool, thanks [11:07] Laney: not if it's the only change (meaning: there is no commit since last push) [11:08] there were 2 commits and a tag, should be fine then? [11:08] yes [11:08] :-) [11:08] and if not you can always 'bzr commit --unchanged' === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [11:14] rodrigo_, hi :) [11:17] rodrigo_, by any chance did you know about this? bug 811822 [11:17] Launchpad bug 811822 in gnome-session "gnome-session gets stuck utilizing 100% cpu time of one core" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/811822 [11:18] ricotz, hmm, no, looking [11:18] hmm, no trace [11:20] it seems i can confirm this, both gdm gnome-session process and the user one get stuck like this for me, but it seems system related [11:20] i cant reproduce it on this machine [11:20] ricotz, can you try getting a strace? [11:21] i will try it when i am home again [11:21] ricotz, ok, thanks [11:22] it could be somehow related to the graphics driver :\ (happens with nvidia blob) [11:30] didrocks, where does unity get its setting for the default e-mail client from? [11:30] i just logged in to a guest session, and evo was the mail client in the dash [11:30] but the default was thunderbird in the messaging menu [11:30] chrisccoulson: it was gconf before, unity-2d has been fixed for using the mimetypes, not sure about unity 3d, I'll have a look [11:33]