[02:19] <h00k> truepurple: How can we help you?
[02:20] <truepurple> Yesterday action was taken against me twice that caused the channels I was ins tab to close
[02:20] <truepurple> What might this action have been?
[02:20] <h00k> @login
[02:20] <h00k> @btlogin
[02:21] <h00k> truepurple: what channels?
[02:21] <truepurple> this one, and ubuntu
[02:21] <h00k> truepurple: you don't recall why you were removed from #ubuntu or #ubuntu-ops?
[02:22] <truepurple> First, no real was was given, but second, that is not what I asked
[02:22] <truepurple> I asked, what was the action taken against me, it seems being kicked does not cause the tab to close, so what was done against me?
[02:23] <tonyyarusso> You were removed.
[02:24] <h00k> truepurple: from looking a the logs, you were removed requested by an opp.
[02:24] <h00k> *op
[02:24] <truepurple> that is different from kicked?
[02:24] <tonyyarusso> yes
[02:24] <h00k> truepurple: yes
[02:24] <tonyyarusso> You can find details on Freenode's documentation.
[02:24] <truepurple> Is it meant to close the tab?
[02:24] <tonyyarusso> That depends on the client implementation.
[02:24] <tonyyarusso> /preferences
[02:25] <truepurple> Is  it meant to close the tab though, is that the general idea of removed verse kicked
[02:25] <tonyyarusso> That depends on the client implementation / preferences.
[02:25] <h00k> It is meant to remove you from the room (basically a /part).
[02:25] <truepurple> If its just a client thing, where is there even a separate command from kicked?
[02:25] <tonyyarusso> You could ask the IRCd developers about that.
[02:26] <truepurple> Well I am requesting that you kick, you don't remove
[02:26] <tonyyarusso> Did you have an Ubuntu ops question?
[02:26] <truepurple> kick is just as good as remove, and allows me to see the log
[02:26] <tonyyarusso> Well, we're not going to do that, but thanks for asking.
[02:26] <h00k> It helps prevent auto-rejoining scripts from auto-rejoining.
[02:26] <h00k> truepurple: also, the channels are publicly logged
[02:27] <h00k> ubottu: tell truepurple about logs
[02:28] <truepurple> But finding messages in a log will not be as easy
[02:28] <truepurple> So if you feel you were unfairly treated regarding a "remove" what are you suppose to do again?
[02:29] <tonyyarusso> ubottu: tell truepurple about appeals
[02:31] <truepurple> what is the exact command for this remove? Is it /remove?
[02:31] <h00k> truepurple: for you to part a channel? /part
[02:31] <truepurple> No, when you remove someone from a channel, what do you type?
[02:32] <tonyyarusso> /ar truepurple
[02:32] <tonyyarusso> for instance
[02:32] <h00k> if you have the autobleh script on irssi, yes.
[02:32] <tonyyarusso> On my client
[02:32] <tonyyarusso> yup
[02:32] <h00k> (also, you must be an op)
[02:33] <tonyyarusso> Again, this is all documented on the Freenode site.
[02:36] <truepurple> I am talking with the developer of the smuxi client I use, he is making it sound like it is some kind of bug or hack with this forced part behavior
[02:36] <tonyyarusso> Try a designed feature of the IRCd.
[02:37] <tonyyarusso> How it is *handled* is a client matter.
[02:37] <h00k> http://dev.freenode.net/ircd-seven
 its freenode? they are known to be IRC protocol abuser
[02:40] <truepurple> I mean I dont care about hack verses feature, I just dont want the tab to close
[02:40] <h00k> truepurple: is there anything else we can help you with in here? If you would like to talk to #freenode about features, feel free in #freenode.
[02:41] <tonyyarusso> Whether the tab closes or not is a client matter.  This has nothing to do with us.  Do you have any further business here?
[02:41] <truepurple> can you kick me if you dont want me in here any more so I can review things said?
[02:41] <truepurple> That is not how this developer is making it sound
[02:42] <truepurple> And I would appreciate it if you guys would use kick more often, and only use that other thing if there is a issue with that user with this bot thing
[02:42] <tonyyarusso> We're not going to change how we operate because you can't set your preferences properly.
[02:42] <truepurple> Its not even a option with this client
[02:43] <h00k> truepurple: I may suggest a different client.
[02:43] <truepurple> The developer of the client says such a command is not a proper command even
[02:43] <h00k> /part surely is a proper command.
[02:43] <h00k> truepurple: the command entered by ops, /ar, is simply an alias.
[02:43] <truepurple> for a user to use in their own client...
[02:43] <h00k> and is one example, on one 'script' on one client.
[02:43] <truepurple> For a OPS to force such a command into my client is another matter
[02:44] <truepurple> You guys sure are talking cold, if someone isnt using whatever bot, there is no problem with you guys using kick instead
[02:44] <h00k> truepurple: the command issued is /remove
[02:45] <h00k> truepurple: if there's something you would like to take up with !appeals, you're welcome to that as well
[02:45] <truepurple> I can appeal a general policy?
[02:46] <tsimpson> our policy of using /remove is not up for debate, sorry
[02:47] <h00k> truepurple: again, I may suggest using a client that doesn't close a particular tab if removed
[02:47] <truepurple> If its no sweat off your backs, there is no rule that requires remove verses kick, there is no reason to show some slight kindness to a user
[02:48] <tsimpson> both /kick and /remove have the same result, the user is forced out of the channel
[02:48] <truepurple> If its a matter of bot, couldn't you use a short ban instead?
[02:48] <tsimpson> exactly how _your_ client handles it is not up to us
[02:48] <truepurple> No, kick keeps the tab open
[02:48] <tonyyarusso> Why should all of us change something instead of you?
[02:48] <ldunn> truepurple: this depends on the client
[02:49] <truepurple> meebey> see they abuse the protocol
[02:49] <truepurple> 21:41 <meebey> so the autojoin bot believe it wanted to leave
[02:49] <truepurple> 21:41 <meebey> do you start to see the issue?
[02:49] <truepurple> 21:42 <meebey> this is what smuxi does, it can not tell apart if you wanted to close the channel or they forced it to
[02:49] <truepurple> 21:42 <meebey> its the exact same command
[02:49] <tonyyarusso> Again, whether your tab stays open is YOUR problem, not ours.  Now stop wasting our time griping about your client's failures.
[02:49] <ldunn> /remove keeps my tab open in xchat
[02:49] <h00k> truepurple: please do not flood the channel
[02:49] <truepurple> I was just telling you what I was told
[02:49] <tonyyarusso> And we're telling you what we're telling you.
[02:49] <elky> how about you discuss the reason why you're banned rather than this.
[02:49] <truepurple> and 5 lines its more of a drissel
[02:50] <tsimpson> truepurple: tell the developers that parting a channel does not mean closing a tab, other than that we can't really do anything about your client
[02:51] <truepurple> elky: I am not banned
[02:51] <elky> when why are you here?
[02:51] <truepurple> elky: I suggested ban instead of /ar so the tab doesnt close
[02:51] <h00k> a ban is unnecessary
[02:51] <elky> why were you here yesterday
[02:52] <truepurple> Oh I remember
[02:53] <truepurple> Someone told me something, I asked if I could get a short technical background so I can determine how accurate the information might be
[02:53] <truepurple> The ops asked me to go to this channel to discuss how that discussion wasnt right or something
[02:54] <truepurple> The ops at the time called that "off topic" I say that is BS, it is very much on topic
[02:54] <elky> It wasn't. That's an incredibly rude thing to ask a volunteer who is helping you.
[02:54] <truepurple> Not in the least
[02:54] <truepurple> Any random person can answer you
[02:54] <tsimpson> the don't use community support services
[02:54] <truepurple> and they might not have a clue or make silly presumptions, and you have no way of knowing
[02:54] <elky> If you want qualified support, you do need to pay for that. Canonical offers paid support.
[02:54] <tonyyarusso> So, you came back to have the same argument as yesterday?  How is that helpful?
[02:55] <tsimpson> there are commercial services available if you want more assurance
[02:55] <truepurple> "<elky> how about you discuss the reason why you're banned rather than this."
[02:55] <truepurple> "<elky> when why are you here?"
[02:55] <elky> truepurple, focus on the discussion with me please
[02:56] <tsimpson> if you aren't willing to trust the people giving support in #ubuntu, then don't use #ubuntu. it's busy enough without everyone needing to explain every detail of every bit of advice they give, not to mention how off-putting that would be to helpers
[02:56] <truepurple> elky: I did not understand that
[02:57] <elky> what did you not understand?
[02:57] <truepurple> tsimpson: I just asked for a little tech background, if I was given some and I was still questioning, that would be something
[02:58] <truepurple> But it is absurd to say, that saying 'how much do you know about this topic' is rude or uncalled for or offtopic or deserving of "removal"
[02:58] <tsimpson> truepurple: then the correct thing to do would be to discuss it with them in #ubuntu-offtopic or in private, if they were willing to carry on the discussion. but #ubuntu is not the place for such discussions
[02:58] <truepurple> It is not offtopic
[02:58] <tsimpson> it is
[02:58] <truepurple> And that person was not even in that channel
[02:58] <truepurple> Its part of the topic of the tech support one is seeking
[02:59] <elky> You don't get to pry into people's qualifications because they volunteer information to you.
[02:59] <tonyyarusso> You don't determine what is or is not on topic.  People like tsimpson do, so if he says it's offtopic, then it is.  What part of that don't you understand?
[02:59] <elky> This is not negotiable.
[03:00] <tsimpson> truepurple: #ubuntu us for technical support, that is problem-solving. if you're interested in the technical details of the solution, or want to discuss why that solution is valid, #ubuntu is not the place
[03:00] <truepurple> elky: I should be allowed to ask, whether they agree to answer is up to them.
[03:01] <tonyyarusso> No, you shouldn't.  We've already been over that.
[03:01] <truepurple> And negotiable, well lets say it should be discussable, negotiable means something slightly different
[03:01] <tonyyarusso> Do you have any new business that was not addressed already yesterday or earlier today?
[03:02] <truepurple> Are many of you integral to the ubuntu community?
[03:02] <elky> truepurple, this conversation is over. You are not allowed to challenge volunteers qualifications. If you want that option, pay for professional support via Canonical.
[03:02] <truepurple> Are many of you integral to the ubuntu community?
[03:02] <elky> truepurple, we run the channels. THat we are integral should be bleeding obvious.
[03:03] <truepurple> Challenge is the wrong word, the word is inquire.
[03:03] <tonyyarusso> Also, question is not relevent.
[03:03] <truepurple> When you use words like challenge, you give it a unnecessarily negative connotation, like trying to offend or cause trouble
[03:03] <elky> truepurple, this conversation is over. You are not allowed to challenge volunteers qualifications. If you want the option to inquire the qualifications of your helper, pay for professional support via Canonical and ask the professional qualified support folk there.
[03:04] <truepurple> And then you just ignore me
[03:04] <truepurple> I would request that you guys please learn to speak to people a little better
[08:21] <Myrtti> I wonder what that was about
[08:46] <Tm_T> interesting
[08:58] <Myrtti> !guidelines
[08:58] <ikonia> asking someone to speak in English is racist now ?
[08:58] <Myrtti> yeah, seems like it
[08:58] <Myrtti> !guidelines > Us3r_Unfriendly
[09:00] <Myrtti> he doesn't even know German :-<
[09:01]  * Myrtti facepalms
[09:01] <Tm_T> that nick rings bells
[09:02] <Tm_T> ikonia: ?
[09:02] <Myrtti> I'm checking user
[09:04] <Myrtti> ubottu is feeling sick
[09:07] <Tm_T> don't need to be intelligent to feel sick though
[09:15] <ikonia> I'm out, seems like a waste of time today, you say something in #ubuntu to get more info and people take it as a "fix" and start blindly guiding the user down that path
[13:05] <Pici> I'm not sure what ionite is doing. Tab completion on freenode's webchat definitely doesn't pm people./
[13:06] <ikonia> does webchat do tab complete ? I'd have thought it changes focus
[13:07] <Pici> I just tested it.
[16:03] <vibhav> I am unbanned right?
[16:03] <vibhav> :|
[16:09] <rww> one sec, I'll go look
[16:10] <Corey> You appear banned still.
[16:10] <Corey> 09:10:27 -!- Irssi: Ban against *!*@unaffiliated/vibhav$#ubuntu-ops matches vibhav!~vibhav___@unaffiliated/vibhav
[16:11] <rww> yeah, the thing I'm going to go look at is whether they should be. There were multiple bans set, we may have missed one.
[16:11] <vibhav> so when am I am going to be unbanned?
[16:11] <rww> (or they may be supposed to be banned, iono)
[16:11] <vibhav>  multiple bans?
[16:12] <Pici> rww: 41921 is the applicable one here.
[16:14] <rww> oh, I see, there was another round of fail after the one I'm thinking of.
[16:14]  * Pici shrugs
[16:14]  * rww shrugs also, leaves it to ikonia
[16:35] <ikonia> anyone can deal with that
[18:41] <Malware> HERRO
[18:41] <Malware> I GOT BANNED FOR NO REASON BY OCEAN
[18:41] <Malware> HE BANNED ME FOR GIVING SUPPORT TO PEOPLE
[18:41] <Malware> WHAT A DICKOFF
[18:42] <oCean> It does not seem to me your showing the correct attitude to discuss your removal now
[18:42] <Malware> I'm sorry :( please unban me
[18:43] <Malware> I'll love you forever
[18:43] <Malware> I'm sorry for calling you names :(
[18:43] <Malware> I shouldn't of done that
[18:43] <Malware> :(
[18:45] <oCean> The language you used in your last post in #ubuntu before I removed you is not acceptable.
[18:45] <Malware> PLEASE UNBAN ME!!!! :( I NEED HELP WIFF UBUNTU
[18:45] <oCean> Also attacking other user, is unacceptable
[18:45] <oCean> Right
[18:45] <oCean> I think it's best for you to step away from the ubuntu channel for a while.
[18:45] <Malware> suck my dick you motherfucker
[18:45] <hypatia> and perhaps the whole internet
[18:45] <maco> and that right there is why you need to leave
[18:45] <hypatia> yeah, that's not going to fly
[18:46] <Malware> fuck, don't be such cock suckers
[18:46] <oCean> Malware: you can leave this channel now, as we have nothing else to discuss at this point
[18:47] <Malware> suck my dick bitch
[18:47] <rww> I'm getting mixed signals here.
[18:48] <maco> rww: yeah me too
[18:49] <oCean> thanks
[18:49] <Pici> Jeeze, I can't leave you kids for 5 minutes.
[18:49] <maco> yay Pici!
[18:49] <hypatia> :p
[18:52] <oCean> He's even yelling in #freenode now
[20:54] <oCean> Pici: g0t has a script enabled, for which he's kicked multiple times in #u, I set a forward earlier this evening. He has in enabled in -server too
[20:57] <Myrtti> oh
[20:57] <oCean> ha
[20:58] <Myrtti> i thouggt i had done it few days ago in u
[20:58] <oCean> that was a kick I think?
[20:58] <oCean> now banforwarded to -ops
[20:58] <Myrtti> no, a ban too
[20:59] <oCean> right 42008
[20:59] <Myrtti> yup
[21:00] <oCean> well, he's still with that script in -server, we have lack of ops in -server
[21:03] <oCean> nhandler: thx
[21:04] <nhandler> oCean: No problem. Poke me to remove the banforward when the #ubuntu one gets removed
[21:06] <oCean> nhandler: okay!
[21:12] <rww> oCean: yeah, I keep hearing that -server's op coverage is suboptimal :(
[21:13] <oCean> true
[21:14] <rww> It might be useful if some of us sat in there and applied for ops there via the usual path. I dunno how much it'd matter as far as op applications go if we're not actually channel regulars :\
[21:14] <oCean> there's not much to do normally, but every now and then you'll find that there's no ops available
[21:15] <oCean> I would not mind to do that, applying for ops there, that is
[21:19] <oCean> rww: I see ikonia in list of pending members