[04:40] morrrrning [04:53] \o knightwise === mar_33 is now known as marmar [06:51] morning everyone [07:04] morning all [07:05] \o [07:18] Morning all [07:25] Car insurancers are a scam, current insurer has quoted £800, just got various quotes, cheapest with a recognised insurer is only £375 [07:29] morning all [07:35] Morning [07:41] DJones, I totally agree they suck [07:42] Also charge you an exorbitant amount to pay monthly, it worked out at just over £100 a year :/ [07:45] Who sucks now? [07:45] Insurance companies :) [07:45] Ah, ok [07:46] normal OT chatter :P [07:49] diplo: This one is only charging about an extra £20 for monthly payments, but always depends on original premium and whether their interest rates are rip off rates [07:50] yeah, I'm going for a new credit card when mine is due in Oct, pay it off with that with 0% on purchases for 12 months, so can can pay £25/30 a month or more with out interesrt [07:51] interest* [07:56] morning everyone. [07:57] Morning brobostigon [07:57] when i just tried to run aptitude safe/upgrade, when it got to eglic, it came up with a message in a text editor, i cant get rid of, to continue, i cant remember how to get rid of it, ideas please.? [07:58] safe-upgrade* [08:06] happy birthday to you brobostigon :-D Too early for a swift one? [08:07] TheOpenSourcerer: thank you :), maybe around lunchtime, :) [08:08] TheOpenSourcerer: can you help with my question above please. [08:08] Nope - don't really understand the question :-( [08:09] ALT+F4? [08:09] TheOpenSourcerer: wouldnt that kill my whole terminal ? [08:09] Yes. [08:10] Probably [08:10] Depends, is the text editor in its own window? [08:10] TheOpenSourcerer: while aptitude is unpacking, it came up with a blocking message, inside what looks like vi. [08:11] ALT+f4 just closes the currently focussed window [08:11] Ahh - vi. [08:11] TheOpenSourcerer: inside the same screen window, i am running aptitude safe-upgrade inside. [08:11] just type ESC then : then q! [08:11] i am not sure it vi, it just looks like it, to me. [08:11] try that then. [08:11] one minute. [08:13] TheOpenSourcerer: nope, nothing. [08:13] dunno then. Screenshot perhaps? [08:16] TheOpenSourcerer: http://imagebin.org/165083 [08:18] Nope - sorry - don't know. It does look a nit like vi but might not be. [08:18] s/nit/bit [08:18] yes, that is what i thought, aswell. [08:19] ohwell, thank you TheOpenSourcerer [08:19] :) [08:24] brobostigon: Looking at the screenshot, am I right in thinking you're using debian, might be worth asking in the debian channel as well, could be something they'll know off the top of their heads [08:28] DJones: i just found the solution, simply pressed q. [08:28] simplest. [08:28] lol [08:32] sometimes the simplest solution is the best, and why i didnt think like that, who knows. [08:39] i was just told, the message was outputted in less. === imexil1 is now known as imexil === luke_ is now known as Featurefreak [09:04] Morning all. [09:05] morning popey [09:05] morning all [09:05] * davmor2 prods czajkowski to wake her up, then prods her again for not being here to get her prod in the first place [09:21] morning [09:21] morning czajkowski [09:22] morning czajkowski the prodding worked then [09:22] clearly [09:24] Girls and boys, Can any one recommend me a external esata caddy from Amazon [09:25] Got a £30 voucher [09:25] One that works with ubuntu quite well, which I guess most will. [09:28] they all will [09:28] my boss has a nice one [09:29] * popey goes to have a look for it [09:29] Thanks popey :) [09:29] I've seen a few I like, just thought I'd ask here before ordering [09:29] Can't afford a micro server yet [09:30] So thought a esata with my revo would be next best thing [09:32] his is one that doesn't needs screws [09:33] hey talking of caddies, I need to get a usb caddy for a 12.5mm 2.5" SATA drive [09:33] all the cheap ones on amazon only take 9mm drives ;( [09:35] yeah, mine doesn't fit either [09:35] which reminds me, must send my 1TB disk back [09:35] diplo: its an icy box i think [09:36] diplo: http://www.scan.co.uk/products/icy-dock-mb668us-1sb-toolless-otb-25-sataii-hdd-(95mm)-to-esata-and-usb-20-output-inc-leatherpouch [09:36] thats the one [09:47] Thanks popey , sorry had a conference call [09:47] Taking a look now [09:47] Is this competition still open for podcast for HP server ? [09:47] :) [09:47] guys, anyone have experience of dual booting xp and ubuntu, when the XP install has been dd'd from a standalone disk to a /dev/sda3 partition? [09:48] that sounds like an annoyed xp install [09:48] yes :( [09:48] also grub2 is different from grub1 , which i knew [09:49] currently update-grub isn't even detecting the XP partition...seems i have broken it too much :( [09:50] yes diplo [09:50] i copied xp from one disk to another with a very handy tool at the weekend [09:50] not dd [09:51] oh? [09:51] http://www.todo-backup.com/ [09:51] works _brilliantly_ [09:51] it can even clone a disk whilst you're running it [09:52] i.e. I was running XP on an internal HDD and plugged a (smaller capacity) SSD in via USB, installed that software and hit the "clone" button. [09:52] it cloned the full disk layout to the smaller SSD and automagically shrunk partitions to make it fit [09:52] zero effort [09:52] sounds great [09:53] I found a good compromise with my always on home server [09:53] it boots from an 8GB SD card plugged in via USB, it has a 500GB hdd which is spun down almost all the time using the hdparm settings [09:54] oimon1: yeah, it's great, can even build a custom Linux ISO/USB stick containing their software so you can do a recovery when the disk has failed or is new/empty [09:54] is it for windows or multi os? [09:56] its for windows [09:57] but clearly they have a linux version because when you make their custom linux iso/img it boots directly from a linux kernel to their app [09:57] gonna try writing this dd image one more time then try this todo [09:58] the only issue I had with todo was that the power management in xp would spin down the usb disk whilst I was backing up [09:58] so i had to switch that feature off [09:59] this is the kind of fun i get up to on my day off when the toddler is asleep [10:21] Ah! Finally found a package in Debian Testing that's as new as the one in Arch! :) [10:21] that probably counts as off-topic here... [10:22] you're complaining that testing is too out of date? [10:23] No, there's an Arch user here who keeps mocking me for being 'out of date' [10:24] and, finally, I've found that I'm not [10:24] or he is [10:25] well presumably you run testing because you don't think having the latest of everything is the most important thing [10:25] yeah, it is entirely in jest. I'm a luddite, he's got an obsession with updating things [10:25] emerge sync! [10:26] ...better things. [10:27] I'm not even supposed to be here! I don't even run arsebuntu anymore (joke aimed at BigRed) ciao [10:28] err [10:49] it's the way you tell them [10:54] hostname [10:54] hostname [10:55] my kingdom for a hostname [10:55] Is that like "New York, New York"? [10:55] Hostname, Hostname. [10:56] haha [10:56] :p [10:58] going to have to call a PC somewhere "hostname" just to mess with people's minds [10:58] AlanBell: kermit [11:03] nosthame might catch some people out [11:35] Anyone here on Orange mobile contract? [11:46] moi [11:47] my work phone is === jussi01_ is now known as jussi === aquarius_ is now known as aquarius [12:00] Daviey: yeap [12:00] Daviey: Why? [12:08] davmor2: did you get an sms about data roaming in europe? [12:08] reply to get this offer.. ? [12:21] i didnt [12:27] Something like 3 quid per day, upto 30MB.. must sign up before August 31st .. (This opts you out of the EU 12MB arrangement.) [12:27] Trying to work out if it is a con :) [12:28] Daviey: http://www.whistleout.co.uk/blog/daily-30mb-on-roaming-orange-uk [12:28] http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/Orange-UK-Roaming-Data-Plan-30MB-3,news-36013.html [12:29] Official announcement http://newsroom.orange.co.uk/2011/07/15/orange-launches-new-eu-daily-mobile-internet-browsing-bundle/ [12:36] DJones: yeah, the "opt out of EU thing" is what concerned me [12:36] it does seem like a good deal [12:36] or "better" deal [12:40] I don't know why roaming data costs much at all really [12:40] not as if the data itself roams [12:41] someone emailed me 2 x 3MB pics whilst i was in France last year. [12:41] That was *painful* to realise how much it cost, for something i didn't even want :) [12:42] ouch [12:42] if I had let my phone do data roaming in Germany a few weeks back it would have uploaded a 650MB video to Google+ instant share [12:42] I like T-Mobile's thing where it defaults to no international roaming [12:42] and then you can turn it on if you really want it [12:42] but it's off at T-Mobile, you don't need to trust the phone [12:43] During my last trip in France, I bought some data and then forgot about it [12:44] Wondered why my monthly DD was 40 quid higher than normal [12:44] Afternoon guys. trying to mv some DVD isos from my USB HDD ( NTFS ) to a share on my server here at work, getting 'Value too large for defined data type' [12:44] Daviey: I got one about holidaying in europe earlier in the year but you need to set it up by ringing them I found out when I went to budapest I was right annoyed [12:44] Any suggestions whilst I am googling [12:44] Share is on ubuntu server 11.04 ( ext4 ) === seeker_ is now known as seeker [12:48] * DJones debates whether to buy a kindle [12:49] davmor2: I thought calling orange whilst roaming was free? [12:50] Daviey: it is if the network you are roaming on allows you to connect which didn't happen in budapest in the end I grabbed a pay as you go sim from there [12:51] ahh [12:53] Daviey: Also you can't enable it via the net either I tried that, you have to ring them, even though you can buy the European roaming pack online which is one I still don't quite get [12:54] heh [12:54] it's not uncommon to have to get the 'roaming lock' switched to enable.. by calling them [12:54] i thought most networks did that to new customers [13:12] today i have found out about the application "spd-say". well, thats today's productivity out the window [13:13] gord: you can plug that into different back ends too, espeak isn't my favourite [13:16] lol gord we found it a few weeks ago [13:16] both of us have sshd running and were sending stuff to each others PC's at random times [13:16] :D [13:17] Very immature but we had some laughs [13:22] must note to make sure to leave a system with sound output running next time i leave home and someone house sits for me [13:29] gord: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/05/05/speak-to-me/ [13:30] AlanBell, kind complicated :) [13:30] no, not really I have done it all for you! [13:36] bug 495423 ; Seems to have just gotten Ubuntu a bad organizational reputation somewhere [13:36] Launchpad bug 495423 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "update to grub-pc writes MBR without checks, prompt or backup" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/495423 [13:39] perhaps ubuntu is just copying that "feature" from windows ;-) [13:53] perhaps the fact that you can't detect when grub is installed, is a bug in grub? [13:53] i mean, maybe you can't detect existing versions [13:53] so fix it so that you can [13:53] this could be done very easily [13:54] hey guys, not a S.M.A.R.T literate person here, anyone know what this means for a server drive? http://paste.pocoo.org/show/447443/ [13:54] Yeah, this seems like another bug that's was caused by a lack of foresight [13:54] simply hash the executable code along with the string "this is a grub install" and then write the result to a known offset inside the mbr [13:54] Featurefreak: your temp looks way off [13:55] couple of bytes of hash/checksum should be enough [13:55] the thing with smart, though, is that it's change you want to observe. The output of smartctl -a is only really useful compared against some previous output from it [13:55] BigRedS, it's an old 2006 server been sitting in germany the whole time, never massively busy for any sustained period of time, but mostly on. [13:56] Featurefreak: Reallocated_Sector_Ct is the most important one [13:56] being zero is good [13:56] hmm, i see [13:57] every disk i have ever seen die was because it ran out of spare sectors to reallocate into [13:58] wikipedia actually has a nice table: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T. [13:58] i had a disk die when it fell off the table once [13:59] oh yeah i had that once [13:59] I've had several survive that [13:59] oh, not while on though [13:59] but it was not able to produce smart values after :) === bigcalm_ is now known as bigcalm [14:04] What's the minimum amount of space one would give Ubuntu on a HDD/SSD? [14:05] I'd not go much less than 20GB [14:05] depending on what I was doing with the install/os/rest of hdd [14:06] bigcalm, ubuntu needs about 4.3gb for an install (not all of this is used by post-install though) iirc [14:07] ali1234, That's actually a reasonable idea (for future detection of grub) [14:07] ali1234, Possibly the most productive thing anyone has said on that bug so far... [14:11] I should have bought a bigger SSD :/ [14:12] 20.5gb free on this SSD [14:12] if you are short on space you could always use btrfs and lzo compression (no fsck yet though ;-) ) [14:12] Win 7 and files taking up the rest [14:13] 20gb is enough for the main system at least plus some extra packages and porn [14:14] sorry i meant to type "media" [14:14] ;) [14:15] Humm [14:16] Maybe I should buy a bigger SSD and dual boot it on the desktop. Then move this 60gb SSD into the laptop [14:16] I'm running on a 64GB SSD and have about 10GB left [14:16] Or run 2 smaller SSD in the desktop [14:16] awilkins: OS? [14:16] Maverick [14:17] My home folder is huge because it's full of enormous development files [14:17] im currently considering ssd, but am unsure which to go for. read some stuff about 25nm nand being a lot less reliable [14:17] I keep web dev work on the server, so I have no idea why windows needs so much space [14:17] was originally considering ocz agility 3 [14:17] I have an ocz 2 [14:18] Very happy with it [14:18] 80 quid though :S [14:18] exobuzz, I'm not sure it's such a big issue, TBH, I have some Kingston one - I wouldn't expect Kingston to represent a hallmark of quality but it's fine so far under quite a heavy load [14:18] yeh this one is £90 :/ [14:18] Wait long enough and prices will drop [14:18] anyone want to help mrevell https://twitter.com/#!/launchpad_net/status/96222459484848128 [14:18] it is intersting to do and only takes a few mins [14:18] thanks czajkowski :) [14:18] Prices will drop or sizes will just go up for the same money [14:18] 25nm nand should be cheaper. they are not passing on the savings [14:19] Of course they aren't, this is high tech we are talking about [14:19] i got 1tb hdd. i could just buy another for some extra speed and stripe em [14:19] only £30 for another drive or so === nick is now known as Guest47084 [14:19] Loads of RAM is the best investment [14:19] AlanBell: bigcalm daubers ?? [14:19] and wait a while for an ssd [14:20] Esp on Linux, it caches big files in RAM very nicely [14:20] The speed increase is wonderful, but I'm also looking at consuming less energy [14:20] i got 8gb.. i made a mistake though. i emant to get 2x4gb and i bought 4x2gb so no upgrade space [14:20] i need new glasses [14:20] exobuzz, wifey has an ocz agility 3 [14:20] directhex, do you rate it ? [14:20] 8GB is probably enough unless you are debugging enormous 64-bit JVM server apps [14:21] awilkins, it's been fine for what i use it for. even with a few vms running [14:21] czajkowski: I don't use LP, so possibly not the target for this [14:21] +i5-2500k on z68 chipset [14:21] argh since i bought my cpu its gone down by £20 [14:22] bigcalm: could be the perfect one, not using it, new eyes [14:22] :) [14:22] and i7 is much cheaper too damnit heh [14:22] I dislike this "unlocked" thing for Intel CPUs [14:22] me too [14:23] exobuzz, somewhat jealous [14:23] I'm still kicking myself for buying an i3 dell laptop. Can't upgrade it [14:23] and only the K unlocked ones have the better gpu. so it was a weird choice when they release h67/p67 and you still need the unlocked chip for h67 board for faster gfx even though you cant use the unlocked features [14:23] Like the bad old days when you bought a server upgrade and they sent an engineer with a wirecutter to snip the wirelink that disables the feature you're paying for [14:23] :( [14:25] Oh wonderful. My samba shares aren't working now [14:25] * bigcalm quietly wheeps [14:25] bigcalm, i3 is decent enough though for a laptop [14:25] how do you mean cant upgrade it? i mean upgrading the cpu ? [14:26] exobuzz: I still like the laptop, just annoed that I was trying to cut corners on cost [14:26] Yes. From my research, one cannot upgrade the CPU in it [14:26] one generally can't upgrade laptops [14:26] ive never considered upgrading a cpu in a laptop anyway. [14:27] i did upgrade the gpu in my dell inspiron 8000 though. [14:28] i have an acer laptop. lcd backlight was going, so i took the screen from another acer machine, that was broken, but then i fixed the other acer machine, so i still need another screen. damnit [14:28] must buy MORE broken laptops from ebay [14:31] heh [14:31] nice quit message [14:33] Time to download 11.04 and install it on this 500gb HDD I just pulled from my mythtv box [14:34] Why are Ubuntu still recomending 32bit over 64bit? [14:34] dunno. [14:34] they don't really, it goes back to when 32 worked better with some 3rd party software (flash etc) [14:34] i) The kernel supports PAE, so there's no benefit in terms of memory ceiling [14:34] flash is ok on 64bit now as of recent days [14:34] but the website hasn't been updated since then [14:35] ii) Most people don't need more than 4GB of RAM per process === Guest47084 is now known as nickholden [14:35] On the download page, the version type select field says "32-bit (recommended)" [14:35] iii) There may still be some minor compatibility issues (I've run into cases where the 64-bit packaging of some 32-bit apps was not adequate) [14:35] regarding 64 bit flash [14:35] 64 bit is better for video/audio encoding [14:35] i need to use a ld preload hack to make flash fullscreen work properly [14:35] i apply this as part of nspluginwrapper [14:36] so, what to do if i use 64 bit flash? [14:36] the new 64bit flash works fine on my machine [14:36] fullscreen doesn't [14:36] on my machine it does. [14:36] on mine it doesn't [14:36] Maybe I'll run windows in a vm if really needed [14:36] then i dunno [14:37] ali1234, is you are not using 64bit flash how do you know it doesnt ? [14:37] bigcalm: There are also supposed to be some proprietry drives that may not work and some wireless cards that use ndiswrapper & have no 64 bit windows driver [14:37] I see [14:37] I wonder if I'll get my display link usb gfx working :) [14:37] (flash 11 beta) [14:38] bigcalm: This is quite a good thread about it, only 3 pages http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1756578 [14:39] Will read it later, ta :) [14:39] exobuzz: because i tried it with the old 64 bit flash [14:39] exobuzz: and the bug is reported in adobe jira where it is marked "wontfix" [14:39] ali1234, erm. but then thats the old one. you dont know that they havnt fixed it [14:40] they haven't marked the bug as fixed [14:40] and they've specifically said they won't fix it [14:40] but just for you, i will test it [14:40] this is a pointless discussion if you are not going to try it first [14:40] im if the bug is still there then fine but you cant guess it [14:41] this bug has existed since forever [14:41] if they have fixed it i will be amazed [14:41] ali1234: exobuzz I use full screen64 bit flash on my machine without problems (i3, 4gb ram, intel hd graphics) [14:41] poibnt me to the bug [14:41] exobuzz: there is a full description of the bug on my blog: http://al.robotfuzz.com/content/workaround-fullscreen-flash-linux-multiheaded-desktops [14:42] trek marathon. :) birthday pressies. [14:42] https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-1039 [14:44] https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-751 [14:44] https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-554 [14:44] they are all referenced o the first link [14:45] https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-5633 [14:46] works fine on my singel display anyway heh. [14:46] single :) [14:46] yes, it only happens on dual head displays [14:46] because the video is scaled to the monitor size, but keeps the aspect ration of the total display area [14:50] https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-1566 [14:50] ok enough of that [14:57] ok i just tested and the bug is still present in flashplayer11_b1_install_lin_64_071311 [14:57] which brings me back to my original question [14:57] how do i apply a LD_PRELOAD hack to a single library? [14:58] without nspluginwrapper i have to load my hack before firefox, and then it affects all plugins of firefox and firefox itself [14:58] i have problems with 64-bit flash too [14:58] i get a black box where the video should be [14:58] frequently [14:59] i kinda gave up on 64-bit flash, went back to 32 bit and it actually works much nicer [14:59] with better grammar... [15:00] hah, seems I _am_ using 32-bit flash [15:00] ii nspluginwrapper 1.2.2-0ubuntu9 A wrapper to run Netscape plugins on other architectures [15:00] what pants [15:00] yeah the black/white rectangle bug [15:00] i used to get that... i wish i could remember for the life of me what fixed it [15:00] nothing... it isn't fixed [15:00] it just only happens on certain sites [15:01] since i installed flashblock and whitelisted only youtube it doesn't happen any more ... cos youtube is one of the few sites that works properly [15:01] embedded youtube videos often show it though [15:02] yeah thats how it used to be for me... [15:02] i only get it on youtube [15:02] got adblock too? [15:02] it seems to happen more on pages that have multiple flash plugins [15:04] ah [15:04] yes, i have adblock [15:04] dunno then, you must just be backwards :) [15:04] it's very frequent [15:04] yeah it's very frequent for me too [15:04] but never happens on youtube [15:04] just "everything else" [15:05] bug 761074 [15:05] Launchpad bug 761074 in flashplugin-nonfree (Ubuntu) "flashplugin-nonfree draws white rectangles" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/761074 [15:05] found it :) [15:05] ooh maybe its fixed in O [15:07] the back and white block thing happens with 32 bit flash on 64 bit. the 64bit flash doesnt have it [15:09] isntall flash from ppa:sevenmachines/flash and try that [15:09] not interested in fixing that one [15:09] flash works on youtube, that's all i care about [15:09] as long as it works in fullscreen [15:09] im sure you can still do your workaround for 64bit for your two screens [15:10] oh i can [15:10] but like i said, not without affecting all plugins and firefox itself [15:10] mrevell: did you get anyone ? [15:10] flash is nicer on windows these days, its a shame [15:11] lol no [15:11] czajkowski, A few people have filled out the form, yeah, thanks [15:11] mrevell: yay [15:11] mrevell: Is it just an online form to be filled in? [15:12] flash has nice acceleration on windows, you can use multi-monitors properly and alt-tab away from fullscreen [15:12] nice [15:14] DJones, There's a form to fill out to say you're interested in taking part: https://ethn.io/27233 [15:14] Ah, telephone interview, just found it [15:32] gord: there's loads of bugs about fullscreen and focus on adobe jira too [15:32] (linux bugs) [15:32] adobe on linux is not fun [15:33] i don't prefer html5 for freesoftware/standards, but because flash on linux sucks [15:33] yeah [15:33] although at least you can block flash [15:34] well, atleast inside chromium, html5, ie, webm, is a more resource efficiant and stable. compared to doing the equal in flash. [15:35] is there a site that shows user stats for OS like there is for browser stats? [15:38] I know what you mean but webm is a video format and only a fraction of what Flash does, and it's not part of the HTML5 standard [15:39] when i first experimental with html5, i used oggv. [15:40] webm might be only a fraction of what flash *can* do [15:40] but it's probably about 97% of what flash is actually used for [15:43] mrevell: something new for launchpad, eh? i hope it's twitter integration - "i reported a bug about : " [15:49] i don't care what webm can or can't do, i just want to watch video [15:50] ali1234, It's not that but that's an interesting idea. Would you really want to tweet every bug you report? [15:50] mrevell: yes, and i want to follow the bugs that other people report too [15:50] Interesting. Anything else you'd want to tweet/dent? [15:51] well it would be nice if i could follow @package to get all the bugs reported on that package [15:51] but you might need to set up your own twitter instance to pull that off [15:52] also i believe you can get that info through email [15:52]