[00:04] NCIS time. see everyone later. [00:13] snap-l: greg-g: rick_h_ [00:13] remember that guy at the global jam [00:13] with his broken wireless? [00:14] I mention the whole story on this podcast: http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/ 52 minutes in! [00:17] Heh. :) [00:17] Downloading it [00:42] yay, new phone and memory card should arrive tomorrow! :) [00:45] yey? [00:56] W00t [00:56] greg-g: what did you end up with? [01:00] everyone having a good night? [01:00] party [01:00] Going well so far [01:00] got the bike running, lock attached [01:00] the boy screamed in his first ride in the trailer [01:00] but hope we can move past that [01:00] hopefully [01:01] Heh, he's totally not used to it [01:01] he was pretty cranky tonight [01:01] Hopefully he'll get better about it [01:02] can be kind of scary alone back there [01:02] so think it was overall mood vs just the trailer [01:02] george's first trailer trip he had his cousin with him [01:02] yea, we were thinking of letting him have his bed time buddy, the stuff puppy with him perhaps [01:05] we also give him books and such for if he gets bored [01:06] cool, thanks for the idea [01:16] rick_h_: Virgin Mobile, going with the Optimus V. Great price ($125 for the phone, $35-45/mo for plan) and I'm OK with 3G [01:16] Jill has an optimus [01:16] cool [01:16] it's awesome [01:16] jcastro: good to hear! [01:16] this years midrange phone that demolishes last year's superphone [01:17] brousch: though, more toys/books the more weight you have to pull! ;) [01:17] "sorry, you only get one book or two toys, that's it." [01:18] last time we took the cover off the trailer. someone had to follow behind to collect the books that got thrown out [01:22] brousch: lol [01:49] brousch: heh [01:49] We just added this to the baby registry :) http://www.amazon.com/Sherpani-Rumba-Superlight-Baby-Carrier/dp/B0045UAN6M/ref=sr_1_2?s=baby-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1311729821&sr=1-2 [01:49] rick_h_: ^^ thought you'd like that [01:51] holy crap [01:54] that's ginormous [02:16] What the fuck is that? [02:16] Looks like a tree hut with straps [02:16] portable yurt [10:43] greg-g: lol, I hope you get that [11:43] lovely, morning news line to make you cringe [11:43] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14289981 [11:43] the Mozilla developers aim to get applications running without the need for the browser, effectively creating a web-centred operating system. [11:43] isn't it just booting to a browser? per chrome? cause you kind of need that for a 'web centered' OS [11:45] I pointed that out yesterday. ;) [11:45] Thought it would have given you more pause [11:45] ah, sorry. Was busy yesterday and only followed the channel a bit lightly [11:46] Actually, this is a different take on it [11:46] snap-l: you going to be able to make CHC? [11:46] need a lift? [11:46] Same info [11:46] Yeah, I'm borrowing my parents car in the interim [11:46] ok cool [11:46] haven't heard a peep on my car yet, though [11:47] Thanks for the offer, though [11:48] np [11:50] brb, reboot. [12:06] Who the hell names their project for cropping PDF files "Briss"? [12:07] hehe [12:07] just taking a little off the end is all [12:10] lol, works for me [12:15] rick_h_: stop putting special words and tags in your CHC announcements. it makes it hard for me to copy, paste, and modify for grmi social :P [12:16] brousch: :P [12:23] http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/1039/detail/ [12:24] snap-l: http://www.fastcodesign.com/1664576/infographic-of-the-day-the-periodic-table-of-heavy-metals [12:25] Nice. [12:25] There's a typo on King's X, though .They have it as Kings K [12:26] Also they need to break out Meshuggah. It's not avante-garde anymore, it's djent. [12:27] They're an element all to themselves. ;) [12:28] I don't tend to agree with their classifications on bands like Pantera and Sepultura. They're not "Alternative Metal" [12:29] Bah, no, cannot get into a metal timesink this early in the morning. [12:29] lol, walk away...walk away [12:36] hm, interesting behavior in ubuntu 10.04 [12:37] when i double click the title bar of a window it maximizes the window and then the title bare disappears [12:37] taking the close/min/max buttons with it [12:37] i can double-click just below the top panel to get it back [12:37] that's what you wanted, just admit it [12:38] it's not so bad now that i understand it [12:39] but for a long time i've been wondering where the heck my title bars were disappearing to [13:11] I've never seen that in 10.04 [13:11] i don't remember it either [13:11] Also, I generally change the double-click to maximize to minimize instead. [13:11] I rarely want things maximized on my screen [13:12] i tend to use 1 workspace per window for many things [13:12] Some days I'll use one workspace per task [13:13] snap-l: greg-g brousch and others, any idea for a good sample data that's open I could use for sqlalchemy tutorial? [13:13] I was going to do student/class/grade kind of thing, but ugh generating too much crap by hand [13:15] http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2011/02/01/sample-datasets-for-benchmarking-and-testing/ ? [13:15] Or you could use Musicbrainz database [13:16] you must make your own highly-humorous dataset [13:16] http://musicbrainz.org/doc/MusicBrainz_Database [13:16] thanks snap-l might find something there [13:16] well I also kind of like the idea of making the demo someone's existing database if only to prove how you can strap SA onto an existing app/data [13:18] I did not know that Bob Young of Red Hat fame is the CEO and founder of Lulu [13:18] That is awesome. [13:18] http://opensource.com/business/11/7/bob-young-founder-red-hat-and-lulu-collaboration-innovation-and-standing-shoulders-gia?sc_cid=70160000000IDmjAAG [13:19] rick_h_: or make greg-g happy with some of these open datasets http://ckan.net/ [13:20] brousch: heh, yea but I want sql [13:24] Man, I am too clever by half [13:24] Couldn't find my corp credit card [13:25] Partially because it wasn't under the AmEx folder, it was under the Credit Cards folder. [13:25] <- dumbass [13:34] NullPointerException: Java's way of giving you a little hug to tell you it loves you. [14:00] wheee, love tons of vim editing to get data to load [14:00] thank you vim marks [14:01] Vim is awesome for data editing [14:04] turning mysql dumps into useful sqlite imports for decades :) [14:04] There should be a Python script for that. ;) [14:04] probably [14:05] Also, I'm finding that I'm not liking Perl as much as I used to. [14:05] Don't tell rick_h_ [14:05] hah! my job is done [14:05] oh crap, still no tiling WM [14:05] I must press on! [14:05] I'll go mac before going tiling WM. ;) [14:05] yea, I hear that's what all the cool kids are loving these days lol [14:06] <3 seeing people fighting Lion so hard [14:07] Well, what's funny is every change I'm seeing in Lion I'm seeing in Unity [14:07] the changing of mouse gestures? [14:07] people are railing against the launchpad ui [14:08] the removal of 'spaces' [14:08] I don't know unity is doing that, it still shows the workspaces inthe expose-ish view I thought [14:10] Meh, I mean some of the more cosmetic changes [14:10] I'm not sure about the Launchpad UI. Haven't seen it in person [14:10] And spaces didn't get removed, did they? [14:10] yea [14:10] I thought they only made it so there was only 4 spaces. [14:10] my understanding is that spaces is now LP [14:10] the keyboard key is switched [14:11] it took over the shortcut, etc [14:11] Nice. [14:11] I need to play with Lion some time at the Apple store [14:11] Y'know, when it's not full of people who are busily dicking with the iPads and iPhones. [14:12] why not, if they're doing that then you can play with the air/laptops [14:12] because their big butts will be covering the laptops. [14:12] ;) === ptenhoopen__ is now known as ptenhoopen [14:23] I love reorgs, because it gives you a chance to see what you should have been doing all along. ;) [14:23] lol, uh oh [14:23] reorgs == work reorg [14:23] Software, Services and Solutions. Yep. [14:23] or do you mean some sort of todo.sh reorg? [14:23] No, I mean work re-org [14:24] isn't this like the 3rd work reorg since you've been there? [14:24] Second, I believe [14:24] ah, my bad [14:24] No worries [14:24] It's not like I can keep them straight either. [14:24] All I hear is the rumbling of the thtunder of the gods. [14:25] and I look up and wonder just what is happening on Mt. Olympus. [14:27] anybody used DJVU? [14:27] <_stink_> a virtual gentleman's club? [14:28] I'm in [14:28] but don't talk about strippers, _stink_. Rick will CoC slap you. [14:28] http://djvu.org/ [14:28] <_stink_> rick_h_ is the enforcer? [14:28] open alternative to pdf [14:28] rick_h_: you good on your dataset? if not, what kind of data do you want? [14:30] greg-g: I'm good I think [14:30] I got the movies example from snap-l's link owrking so far [14:30] people better appreicate this lol, this is tedious [14:32] we're getting these ginormous PDFs lately that kill our old CPUs when we try to view or print. i've been batch converting them to jpg on the server when it happens, but djvu seems to be more friendly [14:32] rick_h_: the thing I thought that was funny about the mozilla android based "OS" like chrome"OS" is that the article I read said something ilke "mozilla chose android instead of linux" [14:32] and last time I checked, android was linux. [14:33] I think they meant not an X11 GUI, but an android gui. [14:33] jrwren: yea, well it's java on top of linux [14:33] but they said "linux". *sigh* so dumb. [14:33] yea, basically sounds like linux->android hardware core->gecko browser [14:33] I don't think it's the android gui layer, it's a layer above that [14:33] err below that [14:33] the core services, hardware apis/etc [14:34] but even still, its linux kernel. [14:35] but I risk sounding like stallman and saying "GNU LINUX" :) [14:35] i don't know what android or chromeos for that matter uses for its graphics stack. I'd be surprised if android uses X11, but it might. [14:35] it does not [14:36] does chromeos? [14:36] let me see if i can find the article [14:36] i dont' trust articles, i trust source. link me to the android source graphics stack :) [14:37] http://developer.android.com/guide/basics/what-is-android.html [14:38] so B2G would probably use the linux underpinnings, the android runtime, core libraries, and probably base libraries [14:38] rick_h_: FTW [14:38] and not sure on the app level stuff [14:38] i like that mozilla is doing this, because I'm not a fan of dalvik :) [14:38] here we go http://www.itworld.com/mobile-wireless/179875/are-android-and-linux-same-thing [14:39] I would think they'd be using dalvik as well? [14:39] that's pretty low level for them to yank out [14:40] That's like asking if MacOSX is UNIX. [14:41] Yes, but there's Cocoa and Aqua acting as a shell above it that does a lot of the user interface piece [14:41] "it's like an onion...layers" [14:42] brousch: that is a dumb answer. [14:42] MacOSX is UNIX because they licensed the TM. Unix is just a (tm) :) [14:42] what's a dumb answer? [14:42] Windows could be a UNIX too, since it has a full POSIX layer. They just need to license the (tm) [14:43] "There are arguments for each side, naturally. The biggest for Android being Linux is, of course, the fact that the kernel for the Linux operating system and the Android operating system are very nearly one and the same. Not completely the same, mind you, but Android's kernel is directly derived from Linux. " from teh link you sent [14:43] jrwren: Technically, yes. Which was well hashed out in the 1990s when Linux was getting legs. [14:43] that is a dumb answer [14:43] jrwren: I don't buy that Windows is a UNIX because of POSIX [14:43] snap-l: exactly :) [14:43] snap-l: of course its not, it doesn't license teh (tm), but it COULD be. [14:44] jrwren: Much the same way that a pig with lipstick COULD be a great first date. [14:44] Just don't try to get past second base. [14:44] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Microsoft_Windows_Services_for_UNIX [14:44] they do license the Unix (tm) [14:45] how else could they call it "Services for Unix" [14:45] so I guess Windows IS a UNIX with the right add on. [14:47] ha! that is awesome. Next time some MacOSX nut says "its great cuz its unix" I'm going to tell 'em Windows Is a Unix TOO [14:47] jrwren: Microsoft just licened the MKS Toolkit [14:48] they bought it. [14:48] its not MKS anymore. [14:48] hasn't been for 10 yrs. [14:48] see the above link [14:48] Right, they subsumed it like a good Microsoft. ;) [14:48] MKS != Interix [14:49] Ah, right. Sorry [14:50] Still... blergh. :) [14:51] meh, anyway [14:51] double blergh, since its ONLY in Ultimate and Enterprise editions, its extra fail. [14:52] it makes me sick just thinking about it, sicne if it was in all editions, then MSYS wouldn't be needed!!! [14:52] I wonder how many places seriously use the Microsoft Unix stiff anyway. [14:53] just enough that there is demand for MS to keep shipping it. [14:53] Seems too much like grafting and related pain to be useful [14:53] I guess. Wonder if VMs will take some of that need away. [14:53] although sometimes I wonder if Russinivich just thinks its cool and so he says "ship it" [14:54] ++ [14:54] Wow, this update process for the work laptop is really made of suck [14:54] from what I've read they like to showcase it as part of their NT kernel. Its a Mach hybrid and win32 is only one of the subsystems in it. the SFU/POSIX layer is another subsystem. [14:54] adn I get that. it is really cool that SFU isn't built on win32 [14:55] NT has a Mach kernel? [14:55] mach hybrid, just like Darwin [14:55] i should say Mach influenced. [14:55] Right [14:55] nothing is purely Mach except for toys [14:56] I don't give MS enough credit for forward thinking. [15:01] ok, djvu is impressing me. they have lightweight but useful viewers for lin/win/osx/android. files converted from pdf are actually smaller than the originals. the viewers are much faster than adobe/foxit on the same files [15:02] snap-l: what do you mean? you think they are not technically well off? [15:02] And they have a format that isn't widely supported. [15:02] jrwren: I thought they had more technical debt to work off at the lower levels. [15:02] IMO they make technical debt for themselves. [15:02] snap-l: but i don't really care. i can always print it to pdf if i need to send it somewhere [15:03] they make backward compatibility so important that they hurt themselves. [15:03] jrwren: Very true [15:04] brousch: Why use djvu? What's the benefit? [15:07] ptenhoopen: my current problem is we get huge pdfs that take forever to render and print on our old computers. the processes are CPU-bound, so i can't just toss RAM at it. [15:08] OK [15:08] So the files are converted to another format? [15:08] i've been converting to JPG in those cases, but the files end up 10x larger than originals [15:11] ya know waht I hate??? 2cd sets with only 2 good songs... 1 on each disk. [15:11] convert to 2 color bitmap [15:11] or png. [15:11] jrwren: Yeah, I feel the same way about New Order's Singles. ;) [15:11] png would be WAY better since its lossless [15:11] ha! TRUE! but its New Order, so <3 [15:12] mm... now I must hear Everything's Gone Green [15:12] jrwren: What 2CD set were you referring to? [15:12] jrwren: i've tried every image type and they all get huge [15:13] going from a SVG PDF to an image of any kind just balloons it [15:14] brousch: That makes sense [15:15] and i'm dealing with 30"x42" blueprints, sometimes a thousand of them in a job [15:15] snap-l: some trance discs [15:15] "trance voices" [15:16] terrible. I should just delete, but I keep it for some reason. [15:16] Heh, I have a few discs lke that [15:16] brousch: well, SVG is a much more efficient storage format. [15:16] 30"x42" at what dpi? [15:16] 300-600 [15:17] i usually target 400 [15:17] so 200MB of PDFs turns into 2GB of JPG [15:21] That sounds about right [15:22] you're taking a space-efficient vector format and rasterizing it [15:22] That's not free. [15:26] sounds ghastly. [15:32] it is [15:33] and sometimes can take hours to convert [15:33] I take it back, disc2 has a lot of great songs. but some crap too [15:42] sorry for the shameless commerce addition to my email to the list [15:45] <_stink_> heh [15:47] but it worked! [15:47] :) [15:50] <_stink_> already selling like hotcakes? [15:52] well, the Sys76 desktop got a inquiry within 4 minutes of me sending the email [15:52] <_stink_> hah [15:59] greg-g: i want your speakers [16:02] Wow, got the estimate for the repairs on the vehicle [16:02] let's just say I love my insurance company. [16:03] that's good I guess [16:03] $500 deductible [16:04] around $5K worth of repairs [16:06] yea, insurance seems nice when you end up using it [16:11] Hey, anybody interested in a Dell "n-series" Ubuntu PC from 2007? I'm doing some housekeeping in preparation for my move and it could use a good home.... [16:14] I've actually got the full specs here, if anybody wants to look: https://support.dell.com/support/order/details.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&order_number=851144249&validate=86651418 [16:15] hm, all of the nice djvu editing tools are proprietary [16:15] i should probably just stick with jpg [16:16] specs? [16:17] jrwren: link above [16:18] i'm slow :) [16:18] devinheitmueller: that looks perfect for my mom, but I already gave her my laptop :( [16:19] snap-l: do you still want my Amiga 1000 or should I put it on ebay? [16:20] damn, $250 on ebay, maybe I'll go ebay [16:20] jrwren: fair enough. It works fine, I am just trying to lug one less PC back to NYC (I am already dragging seven back) [16:21] 7!!! zomg. [16:22] Yes, this is why I am trying to cut back. [16:23] Macbook, iMac, 8-core Linux dev box, MythTV box, Windows box, work laptop, and the Dell. [16:23] i gues if i had to move it would be 5, but 3 are laptops :) [16:28] jrwren: Send it my way. ;) [16:30] snap-l: ok. maybe this is my excuse to come to CHC tonight :) [16:31] If you're looking for $$, though, definitely put it up on eBay. [16:32] nope, I'd rather know that someone I know has it and is maybe even getting joy out of it. [16:32] if you fix its mouse: bonus [16:32] heh. :) [16:33] Thank you. [16:33] Also, love my boss. Told her that my car was in the shop until 8/16, and without flinching she's already on to me taking a train or whatnot to get there. [16:34] Seriously wonder what hidden agenda she has. [16:35] well she's got half the company coming, easier to get you vs cancel everyone else lol [16:37] I brought /6 computers/ with me to florida [16:51] jrwren: cool. Noted. [16:51] jrwren: when do you want to get them? [17:03] Blazeix: you coming to CHC? [17:03] _stink_: ? [17:05] rick_h_: yep [17:06] Blazeix: wonder if I can try to get you and snap-l to test out some of my PyOhio homework [17:06] sure, sounds fun [17:06] I'm planning on being at CHC, so that would be cool [17:06] ok, cool. I'll either get it on github or have a usb drive handy [17:06] want to see if this makes sense [17:06] homework? [17:06] though obviously it's sans the talk, but whatever [17:06] rick_h_: You don't know the half of it re this meeting [17:07] snap-l: ruh roh :/ [17:07] rick_h_: I honestly want to know what fire she's set that requires me to come piss out. [17:08] got a call with her at 2pm [17:10] http://www.oscon.com/oscon2011/public/content/video wow... nebula product looks cool. [17:30] <_stink_> rick_h_: not today, heading to the zoo instead. [17:30] _stink_: cool, have fun :) [17:46] jrwren: i've been playing with conversions some more. png produces much nicer images without sacrificing size very much. i'll have to play with parameters more and see if how far i can take it [17:47] however the images are much slower to covert and open [17:53] yup. typical CPU v. space compression trade. [17:54] all i want is perfect images in a tiny size in an open format that displays quickly. is that too much to ask? [17:55] nope. [17:55] why not keep the full size, but also keep around some scaled down versions? [17:56] like a 2Mpixel version for screen viewing? [17:56] too small [17:57] some of these damn drawings have like 8pt font [17:57] 2ftx3ft and you have to pull out the magnifying glass to read them [17:59] sounds smaller than 8pt. [17:59] brousch: oh!!! I know!!! MSFT has a tech for this. [18:00] DeepZoom. [18:01] https://www.microsoft.com/uk/wave/software-deepzoom.aspx [18:03] there's also seadragon ajax, which is that in JS. [18:05] same thing. [18:05] i mean, same underlying tech. [18:05] photosync. [18:05] photozoom from mslive labs. [18:05] unfortunately they never really released anything for desktop :( [18:07] http://mith.info/tile/2010/09/07/the-open-source-seadragon/ interesting [18:07] yes [18:07] brousch: sounds like a super fun problem. hire me so I can solve it? [18:07] heh [18:07] one of my projects is a program to do what we call take-offs [18:07] where our estimators study a set of drawings and find all of the stuff we actually build [18:08] it's all printed right now because it's too cumbersome with today's monitors [18:09] i imagine something like a 2ftx3ft MS surface where you touch stuff and flip through digital images quickly [18:10] ms surface is shit. its 1024x768 [18:10] right, need much higher res [18:12] i estimate we need 6300x4500 to keep things readable without zooming all the time [18:28] brousch: seadragon! [18:28] then you can load and zoom FAST [18:30] damnit, i just remembered why i didn't go with PNG. our batch plotting software can't handle it [18:38] but it does lossy jpeg? [18:39] yeah [18:39] jpg, tif, pdf, plt [18:45] Whew... just got off the phone with my boss [18:46] <_stink_> she quit? [18:46] Not going to Naperville next week (which is a plus) [18:46] _stink_: No, but I'm very close. [18:46] aw, a train ride would be fun [18:47] Blazeix snap-l if you get a sec, checkout htis git repo please: https://github.com/mitechie/sqlalchemy_pyohio2011 [18:47] need sqlalchemy installed, be it in a venv with that or system wide [18:49] and no peeking at the presentation cheaters! [18:49] * brousch forks it [18:49] <_stink_> hah [18:49] sends it to wikileaks [18:50] EXCLUSIVE! PYOHIO PRESENTATION SOURCE CODE LEAKED! [18:51] crap [18:52] * brousch schedules a sqlalchemy bof for Sat morning [18:52] move it to sunday [18:52] thinking of doing a "SqlAlchemy homework" open space on sunday [18:54] i was trying to schedule it before your actual presentation [18:54] yea, don't do that m'kay :P [18:55] i'm not going to look [19:02] rick_h_: Is there a requirements.txt file? :) [19:02] * snap-l braces for the "it's in the fabric file, just type fab flibbernutter foo foo db: foo" [19:03] snap-l: heh no. [19:03] only req to do homework is sqlalchemy [19:03] hola [19:03] Hey nullspace [19:03] to generate the presentation you need fabric, rst2pdf and such [19:03] but mainly just worried about the homework part [19:04] so you should be able to go into src/demo [19:04] and there's a movies.db there that's sqlite [19:04] and models/homework scripts for working on [19:05] rick_h talking about homework? [19:05] I just ran test.py and it did everything for me [19:05] heh, that doesn't implement all the homework, just my own snaity check stuff [19:05] nullspace: yea, getting some people at CHC to help test out some of my tutorial assignment stuff for my pyohio tutorial this weekend [19:05] This is hard [19:05] Screw it, I'm doing this in Django's ORK. [19:06]