[00:14] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Shorter Talks And New Tricks - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/07/28/shorter-talks-and-new-tricks/
[06:16] <daubers> Morning
[06:31] <Apacheuk> morning everyone
[07:07] <DJones> Morning all
[07:17] <daubers> Anyone seen this yet and actually been surprised? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14314935
[07:19] <DJones> daubers: I was looking at that earlier, can't say I'm surprised, but it does seem outrageous
[07:20] <daubers> DJones: Yeah, it's a bit of a sad state of affairs really :(
[07:20] <daubers> Makes you wonder if the people supplying the government are still living in a world from 10/15 years ago when you could charge that kind of price
[07:21] <DJones> I think I was more disappointed because it reads as though a lot of it is hardware overpricing, not just commercial software/operating systems
[07:22] <DJones> When there are free & open source alternatives for the software, hardware seems to have as much of a tie in with certain manufacturers as MS do
[07:27] <daubers> Yeah, you would of thought that buying in bulk like gov does, hardware would be significantly cheaper than what they're actually paying
[07:27] <daubers> Also makes you wonder who signed off on that and didn't just turn around and walk out the door
[07:39] <BigRedS> Whenever the government buys anything they go for the most expensive
[07:40] <BigRedS> Where I used to work we did a good bunch of contracting for various govnernmental things. they were teh only people who ever paid list price, and they AIUI they dismissed the idea of waiting to see what sorts of discounts they could get.
[08:03] <BigRedS> When the sidebar thingy in unity forgets to autohide, is there some way to remind it?
[08:06] <oly> hi, can someone tell me can you disbale network shares in fstab
[08:07] <oly> my vm will not boot because its trying to mount a cifs mount and failing
[08:07] <oly> so i need to disable the cifs mount so i can get in and remove it
[08:07] <DJones> Is it not just a case of putting a # infront of the fstab line
[08:07] <oly> i can not boot up though to edit the file
[08:07] <oly> it dies during boot complaining about the mount
[08:08] <BigRedS> DJones: yuo
[08:08] <BigRedS> oly: just put a '#' character at the begining of each line declaring a share you'd like to not mount
[08:08] <oly> wondering if there is a kernel parameter i can use or something because recovery mode does the same
[08:08] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:08] <BigRedS> or add 'noauto' to the mount options so it's not mounted automagically
[08:08] <oly> BigRedS, thats all well and good buyt how do i edit the file when i can not b oot the machine
[08:09] <BigRedS> ah.
[08:09] <BigRedS> boot into single-user mode
[08:09] <BigRedS> I've no idea how Ubuntu manages that if there's no root password, though
[08:09] <BigRedS> what's it trying to mount? It's hard to make the boot *fail* through it being unable to mount
[08:10] <oly> a cifs share, it says i can press s to skip only it does not skip :p
[08:10] <BigRedS> yeah, but it should still just keep trying for a while, then shrug and carry on
[08:10] <oly> perhaps i have not waited long left it about 15 minutes so far
[08:11] <DJones> I had a similar problem with an nfs share, I think at one point, I had to wait about 30 minutes before I could to a desktop
[08:12] <oly> okay perhaps i will just wait then, seems a bit pof a silly timeout period :p
[08:12] <oly> surely if its not responded within a minute you would knwo by then its not available
[08:12] <DJones> Mine was a physical installation though, not a VM, not sure if that could make any difference
[08:18] <BigRedS> nah, shouldn't do
[08:18] <BigRedS> the kernel doesn't really care whether it's on imaginary or real hardware
[08:18] <oly> could be, its mounting a folder from the c drive of windows but nothing essential, just my working folder press s to skip not working could be related to the vm though
[08:18] <BigRedS> it's doing the same stuff, it's just what's under it that doesn't; that's part of the point :)
[08:19] <BigRedS> you could boot a live CD and use that to edit fstab?
[08:22] <oly> BigRedS, livecd is an idea may do if it does not boot in next half hour
[08:22] <DJones> Can you edit the fstab of vm installation from a live cd?
[08:22] <DJones> Presumably just a acase of mounting the vm first
[08:22] <oly> yeah should work attach the iso and boot it, shoudl still have access to the hard disk image
[08:23] <oly> luckly i have my laptop with me so not to much of an issue for the moment,
[08:23] <DJones> Not having played with vm's very much, thats a big blank area in my memory :)
[08:23] <BigRedS> DJones: I meant boot that VM with a livecd iso 'in the drive'
[08:24] <BigRedS> It'd be nice if there was some way to mount a vbox disk image but, as far as I know, there isn't.
[08:24] <DJones> BigRedS: Yeah I realised what you meant, probably didn't put my question very well
[08:24] <DJones> I had never given a thought about how you'd edit a file within a vm when it was inside the vm container
[08:27] <BigRedS> Ah, yeah. With Xen I gather they're just arbitrary volumes, normally LVM, so you just mount them and faff
[08:28] <DJones> Not sure I like the new style Thunderbird 5.0 on windows, the transparancy takes a bit of getting used to
[08:29] <oimon> DJones: is there a PPA on 'buntu yet?
[08:29] <DJones> oimon: I would have thought it would be in the mozilla daily if anywhere
[08:30] <oimon> DJones: ah, 11.10 has it, might try it on my testing box instead :)
[08:31] <DJones> Heh, Thunderbird 6.0 is in a ppa
[08:31] <DJones> 5.0 is at https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/thunderbird-stable
[08:31] <oimon> stable? wow
[08:32] <oimon> i remember when giant leap in version numbers actually meant new features
[08:32] <DJones> Heh even better https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/thunderbird-aurora
[08:34] <popey> Morning all
[08:34] <BigRedS> I think they should drop this idea of version numbers and just use release dates...
[08:34] <BigRedS> firefox-20110728
[08:35] <oimon> it seems thunderbird still doesn't support maildir
[08:36] <oimon> so much for my gmail backups in maildir format
[08:42] <jpds> BigRedS: http://cdn2.knowyourmeme.com/i/21310/original/1251552127474.jpg
[08:55] <BigRedS> jpds: haha!
[09:09] <gord> grah it looks like the revo's are just glued together
[09:09] <gord> don't see a nice way of prying mine open
[09:10] <Gary> hammer>
[09:11] <DJones> I see the MPA have won their case to force BT to block Newzbin
[09:11] <gord> a nice way of prying it open that lets me put it back together without huge amounts of tape ;)
[09:15] <diplo> Is this for upgrading memory gord  ?
[09:15] <diplo> Saw you mentioning about errors last night
[09:15] <diplo> Want to upgrade mine shortly
[09:15] <popey> they're not glued
[09:15] <gord> replacing it yeah
[09:15] <popey> they are easy to get apart
[09:15] <popey> one screw
[09:15] <gord> the ram is screwed
[09:16] <gord> popey, where's the screw? :)
[09:16] <popey> on the bottom
[09:16] <popey> iirc
[09:16] <popey> i haven't had mine apart for a while and its at home and i am at work
[09:16] <popey> they are clipped together
[09:16] <iclebyte-work> is there a method of vetting security updates before applying them across many machines?
[09:16] <popey> there is a seam round the edge, you can run a credit card round it to separate them
[09:17] <diplo> Think I only have a gig in mine, think it will make a huge difference
[09:17] <daubers> oimon: If you didn't solve your issue earlier, if you add init=/bin/bash to the kernel boot line in grub, it won't try and mount stuff in the fstab and it will mount / ro
[09:17] <daubers> oimon: remount / rw and you can edit your fstab :)
[09:18] <daubers> oimon: That will automatically log you in as root btw, no password needed
[09:18] <diplo> daubers, think that was oly
[09:18] <daubers> diplo: Ah, my bad :)
[09:19] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:19] <bigcalm> Is it possible to have Skype use one audio device (a USB soundcard/headset) and the rest of the Ubuntu system use another?
[09:19] <bigcalm> And hi peeps :)
[09:20] <gord> does skype not let you choose the output device?
[09:20] <gord> i thought it did
[09:20] <popey> yes, it does
[09:20] <bigcalm> Yes, but it's only listing pulse audio
[09:21] <gord> eh yeah it does here too
[09:22] <gord> iruno how to do it then, there is nothing about pulse that states you can only use "Pulse" and not a specific output device
[09:26] <bigcalm> Any other thoughts? :)
[09:31] <daubers> bigcalm: An you not do it through pulse somehow?
[09:32] <bigcalm> daubers: I haven't seen an option to assign skype to one thing and everything else to another
[09:34] <daubers> bigcalm: think you can using pavucontrol
[09:37]  * bigcalm takes a look
[09:37] <daubers> bigcalm: You need the soundstream running to do it by the look of it
[09:41] <bigcalm> daubers: perfect :D
[09:41] <bigcalm> Thank you :)
[09:41] <daubers> bigcalm: \o/ no probs
[09:43] <daubers> Hmmm... can get "fibre" broadband from Plus net now aat my exchange
[09:43] <daubers> but 18 month contract :(
[09:44] <oly> daubers, cheers for that fstab tip
[09:44] <BigRedS> does plusnet still exist?
[09:44] <BigRedS> well, clearly
[09:44] <BigRedS> I thought BT swallowed it
[09:44] <bigcalm> Aren't plusnet pipex?
[09:44] <daubers> BigRedS: They are part of BT... but run as a seperate entity
[09:44] <daubers> oly: No probs :)
[09:45] <BigRedS> ah, so it's not just rebranded bt broadband
[09:47] <dwatkins> I'm probably going to switch to BeThere as soon as my tie-in with BT ends, I gather they're a vast improvement.
[09:47] <AlanBell> daubers: I am having that installed next week
[09:47] <AlanBell> fibre to the cabinet
[09:49] <dwatkins> Mmm, tasty fibre.
[09:49] <Daviey> you've got to have plenty of fibre in your cabinet, keeps you regular.
[09:51] <daubers> AlanBell: I'm aiming at moving as soon as I can get a mortgage, so don't want an 18month contract :(
[09:56] <daubers> Amusingly Plus nets broadband checker doesn't think i can get braodband, just dial up
[09:57] <bigcalm> Wow, visiting flickr.com in chromium threatens to kill the system
[09:58]  * bigcalm suspects Flash
[09:58] <bigcalm> No such problem with FireFox
[09:58] <bigcalm> Most strange
[09:59] <oimon> daubers: was that me with the problem? doesn't sound like a problem i had
[09:59] <daubers> oimon: Not really
[10:00] <oimon> ah...you meant oly
[10:00] <oimon> just read scrollback..don't worry all sorted
[10:03] <bigcalm> Do people still use gkrellm for displaying useful CPU/memory/sensor information, or are there better alternatives these days?
[10:05] <BigRedS> bigcalm: conky
[10:05] <BigRedS> well, that's what I use when I'm in a *box sort of mood
[10:06] <bigcalm> Ta
[10:06] <bigcalm> Next ;) Is there a simple way of keeping a list of SSH hosts in easy clicking reach?
[10:07] <bigcalm> I can remember a lot of the hosts I need to connect to, but I did get used to the saved list in PuTTY
[10:07] <BigRedS> clicking? ssh?
[10:07] <bigcalm> :)
[10:07] <BigRedS> I used to have a bunch of aliases
[10:08] <BigRedS> alias a='ssh avi.co'
[10:08] <BigRedS> etc
[10:08] <bigcalm> Ug
[10:08] <bigcalm> That still means remembering a list
[10:08] <bigcalm> I'm thinking of an additional menu
[10:08] <BigRedS> I'm now in the habit of using screen and keeping an ssh session open to most of the hosts I'm likely to want to connect to
[10:09] <dwatkins> or for some systems: alias b='export TERM=vt100 ; autossh -M 20000 -t dominic@example.com "screen -DR"'
[10:09] <daubers> bigcalm: You use the unity quicklists thing
[10:10] <daubers> http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/4536294249/more-quicklists
[10:10] <bigcalm> daubers: not using unity :)
[10:11] <bigcalm> I need to actually get work done
[10:11] <bigcalm> But yes, that is an option
[10:11] <bigcalm> Ta
[10:11] <daubers> bigcalm: I use it every day now with no problems :) You could try this appindicator http://www.gulecha.org/2011/05/19/sshlist-an-appindicatorunity-replacement-for-sshmenu/
[10:12] <bigcalm> Can you call ssh and have it ask for a username rather than having to put it in the call to ssh?
[10:15] <oimon> putty is also available for linux too
[10:16] <diplo> bigcalm, I used to make shortcuts on desktop to gnome terminal with ssh info in the,
[10:16] <Daviey> cjwatson uses putty as his linux terminal emulator.
[10:16] <HazRPG> hey guys
[10:17] <brobostigon> morning HazRPG :)
[10:17] <HazRPG> brobostigon: morning :)
[10:24] <oly> daubers, ukfsn do a month by month contract if thats of any use
[10:25] <andylockran> howdy dudes and dudettes
[10:25]  * andylockran quite likes OpsView
[10:26] <davmor2> morning all
[10:28] <livingdaylight> greetings
[10:29] <oimon> novacut made the $25,000 goal then
[10:30]  * popey starts the clock on seeing the code
[10:31] <oimon> there are only 750 backers, which sounds like a rather niche project
[10:31] <popey> many of them aren't even target audience
[10:32] <popey> my comments to them were dismissed because I am apparently not an artist
[10:32] <oimon> grow a beard and they might listen
[10:32] <Daviey> popey: $ time bzr branch lp:novacut .. do i win? :)
[10:32] <popey> oimon: i think that is exactly what they dont want
[10:33] <davmor2> Daviey: looks like evolution stuff is creeping back into oneiric
[10:33] <oimon> even if it's an arty shoreditch beard?
[10:33] <oimon> and skinny jeans
[10:34] <Daviey> davmor2: Well seems the Desktop team have recently done an update, but 'creeping' in?
[10:34] <popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-July/000994.html   is interesting
[10:35] <oimon> formulae is a better word than formulas
[10:36] <livingdaylight> Hi, want to install adobe air on my x64bit system. But not compatible. Anyone know the workaround?
[10:36] <AlanBell> formulæ is even better
[10:37] <oimon> you probably just broke someone's irc client there :)
[10:37] <andylockran> :)
[10:37] <livingdaylight> popey, sorry to ask again. Have you still got those links handy for the short-cuts for unity bar? Need to bookmark them properly this time.
[10:37] <andylockran> 㐴
[10:37] <andylockran> ⌠⌡
[10:40] <oimon> fancy pants
[10:43] <popey> livingdaylight: uhm.
[10:48] <oimon> why does KDE always look inviting from the screenshots but i feel a bit meh when i use it?
[10:49] <popey> KDE always strikes me as looking like a really crap shareware app from about 1992
[10:49] <Daviey> written in VB.
[10:50] <oimon> windows 7?
[10:51] <livingdaylight> uhm?
[10:52] <BigRedS> windows7 still feels a lot like KDE3 to me
[10:52] <popey> livingdaylight: go to askubuntu and search for unity faq
[10:52] <livingdaylight> thank you
[10:52] <BigRedS> but I know exactly what you mean oimon - I keep logging in to it, then about 20mins later think "why did I do that?"
[10:53] <oimon> as for gnome..stock gnome looks lame but most people know how to customise. i used to customise kde3.5 but i don't know how to customise kde4.x
[10:55] <BigRedS> I know how to customise it but I prefer it stock...
[10:55] <BigRedS> the great thing about customising kde is there's about nine different ways to change each thing
[10:56] <BigRedS> but only four of them have been tested, and only one is remembered between logins, but that one's not in the four that have been tested
[10:56] <oimon> hehe
[11:07] <oimon> anyone bought t-shirts from shirt.woot before?
[11:07] <oimon> wondered how the size works out for you
[11:07] <dwatkins> yeah, oimon
[11:07] <oimon> i.e. if i'm a medium in the UK , how does their medium fit?
[11:08] <dwatkins> I tend to get XL even though I'm actually probably an L, as I like baggy t-shirts, so I'm probably not the best person to advise. If you're buying a t-shirt for someone else, make sure you get the male/female bit right, though ;)
[11:09] <oimon> are the tshirts thick cotton, or thin & flimsy?
[11:09] <oimon> my ubuntu one is thin and flimsy :(
[11:10] <dwatkins> fairly thick, but not hugely so
[11:10] <dwatkins> I find it just right
[11:10] <oimon> you sound like a happy customer
[11:11] <oimon> there's a t-shirt they made once that i really want , but it's no longer for sale :(
[11:11] <dwatkins> I am, my TARDIS/DeLorean t-shirt is probably my favourite.
[11:11] <dwatkins> which one?
[11:11] <dwatkins> From the Reckoning, I assume...
[11:11] <oimon> http://shirt.woot.com/friends.aspx?k=16285
[11:12] <dwatkins> I have a mouse/portal t-shirt which has thinner material than the TARDIS/DeLorean one, actually, not sure why.
[11:12] <dwatkins> Still waiting for "Release the cuddlin'" to arrive for my girlfriend.
[11:12] <dwatkins> hehe neat
[11:13] <dwatkins> I had to explain how they use a combination of ideas in some of their t-shirts to someone who isn't so familiar with popular culture, that was difficult.
[11:13] <dwatkins> "It's part A-Team, part Knight Rider, part Batman.... yeah, that's the A-Team bit..." took ages
[11:15] <oimon> i keep hoping the hot dog one will get resurrected again in a derby
[11:19]  * davmor2 prods czajkowski
[11:42] <oimon> is there a reason why i can't format a 8gb usb stick to 1 single fat32 partition?
[11:43] <oimon> gparted and friends are only formatting it to 2gb
[11:43] <diplo> fat32 limited to 4gb
[11:43] <BigRedS> there is a max size to fat32, but I thought it was bigger than 2gb
[11:44] <oimon> diplo: the 4gb limit is a single file
[11:44] <oimon> you should be able to format a partiton to 8gb
[11:44] <diplo> you are quite right, really should go back to bed
[11:44] <diplo> :)
[11:47] <Daviey> wow popey, how many dongles do you need?
[11:48] <davmor2> Daviey: you fool it's one for each day of the week ;)
[11:48] <oimon> ah, i think it is because it thinks the partition is a GPT partition , whatever that is
[11:49] <oimon> popey: how much are those cheap dongles?
[11:49] <ikonia> directhex: re-ping
[11:51] <directhex> re-pong
[11:53] <ikonia> directhex: check your private messages
[11:55] <andylockran> :)
[11:55] <andylockran> Everyone happy?
[11:56]  * directhex has 14 VMs offline, so is tense
[11:56] <Daviey> andylockran: I imagine there are many people in the world not happy, so the answer to that is No. :)
[11:57] <oimon> i'm doing better than i deserve :)
[11:57] <andylockran> Daviey: are you happy?
[11:57] <andylockran> Very long time since we last lunched together Daviey
[11:58] <Daviey> andylockran: Yeah, your turn to pay next time IIRC.
[11:58] <Daviey> andylockran: I'm pretty good!
[11:59] <andylockran> Daviey: yeah.
[12:07] <popey> oimon: http://popey.me/mWAVAH
[12:07] <popey> 8 quid or so
[12:07] <oimon> \o/
[12:07] <oimon> work OOTB?
[12:08] <popey> should do, realtek
[12:08] <oimon> although my crusty old netgear thing has become less flaky since i moved a new PC and 11.04..hhmm
[12:14] <andylockran> popey: looks kewl
[12:15] <brobostigon> what would be good, is if the stuff i share on google reader, could me shared onto google+.
[12:17] <mgdm> I thought it was meant to do that
[12:17] <mgdm> would make sense
[12:18] <brobostigon> it hasnt done it for me.
[12:19] <brobostigon> i dont see any setting for it, in google reader either.
[12:34] <daubers> Interesting... http://www.misco.co.uk/applications/searchtools/item-detailsInactive.asp?Sku=Q274679 <- Win7/XP dual boot
[12:36] <popey> serial port!?
[12:36] <gord> why would you need a win7/xp dual boot?
[12:36] <popey> that looks like a rebadged revo 3700
[12:36] <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/236581
[12:37] <daubers> Yeah, being touted as dual boot here www.misco.co.uk/content/student/index.htm but nothing about it on the link the image follows
[12:37] <daubers> gord: Convince people to move to Win 7 without losing the Win XP familiarity?
[12:37] <BigRedS> but if they don't want to lose teh XP familiarity they'd just not boot into 7, surely?
[12:38] <daubers> BigRedS: I dunno. I'm not MS
[12:38] <daubers> Or Acer for that matter :)
[12:38] <BigRedS> haha
[12:41] <oimon> 7 has XP compatibility mode too
[12:41] <daubers> Just been informed I'm going to need Windows for the maths part of my OU stuff :(
[12:41] <oimon> how come?
[12:42] <oimon> only the statisticians in the maths dept use windows
[12:42] <daubers> No idea, prolly using some weird maths package
[12:45] <BigRedS> oimon: I spent a lot of last night finding that it doesn't really
[12:45] <BigRedS> :/
[12:45] <BigRedS> well, a couple of hours
[12:46] <oimon> it worked for me to the extent that big boss gave me 30 mins to get a webcam working for a skype call, and the logitech webcam driver only supported for XP and older
[12:46] <BigRedS> Ah, I ended up needing a specially-crafted binary for this flight sim
[12:47] <BigRedS> flight sims are way more important than web cams
[12:49] <oimon> of course :)
[12:52] <BigRedS> though I turned out to be rubbish at flying afterwards. I spent a lot of the time going downwards very very quickly
[12:54] <oimon> isn't it a bit boring to fly a jumbo jet in real time from haethrow to NY?
[12:54] <BigRedS> yeah
[12:54] <BigRedS> that's why I play combat flight sims :)
[12:55] <oimon> i used to play chocks away on my archimedes...probably a bit before some people's time lol
[12:55] <ging> i used to play that
[12:56] <ging> rarely was able to actually shoot anything down
[12:57] <oimon> needed to do the up down movement creating a kind of sine wave with your bullets
[12:57] <directhex> i used a proper flight sim once
[12:57] <directhex> and nobody died
[13:07] <dwatkins> Did it use a big LCD/CRT based multi screen display, or a physical representation of the ground etc., directhex? I'm curious.
[13:08] <directhex> dwatkins, very very old school multi-displays
[13:09] <BigRedS> I had a brief go on a many-screen heli sim a while ago
[13:16] <dwatkins> nifty
[13:17] <BigRedS> i crashed repeatedly
[13:18] <davmor2> daubers: try it wine first then if that fails look at installing it again then :)
[13:24] <daubers> davmor2: I don't have to worry about that bit until January :)
[13:24] <davmor2> daubers: have you had a quick look on google to see if there is any mention of linux and you ou math course? :)
[13:30] <daubers> davmor2: Goolging gievs me this "MST121 means you have to use the Mathcad and OUStats packages. The Open University recommends a windows based computer"
[13:31] <davmor2> daubers: so that's all it's for then :(
[13:31] <davmor2> bit sucky
[13:31] <daubers> davmor2: Sounds it. Never mind
[13:33] <oimon> sounds like a headless RDP session to a windows VM
[13:33] <daubers> Heh, or just reboot into the Win7 partition on my laptop :) Just have to resist the temptation to play Civ 5 will there
[13:33] <daubers> s/will/while
[13:35] <davmor2> daubers: that's easy install 0a.d on ubuntu and you'll forget all about it :)
[13:37] <daubers> davmor2: Not seen that. Looks quite good
[14:01] <dwatkins> My brother asked me to remotely setup their machine to run a VM so his oldest daughter can play Sim City 2000 - she was born in that year!
[14:03] <daubers> dwatkins: I'd be more impressed if she was born _in_ Sim City
[14:03]  * davmor2 guesses that daubers silence is cause he is too busy playing 0a.d :D
[14:03] <dwatkins> haha, she doesn't have a green diamond above her head ;)
[14:03] <dwatkins> (different sim, I know)
[14:04] <oimon> sim city 3 & 4 were better
[14:05] <dwatkins> I need to find a fast enough machine to try them on.
[14:05] <dwatkins> I'm guessing they didn't port them to Linux.
[14:05] <oimon> it used to be the only reason i kept a win xp partition
[14:06] <oimon> after that it was the sims 2 for the mrs
[14:06] <dwatkins> Roger that
[14:08] <davmor2> dwatkins: I think 2000 was still a dos based game so you could try it in dosbox
[14:08] <dwatkins> davmor2: it seems to require Windows, but I'll give it a go
[14:10] <dwatkins> wow, yeah - the install directory cites DOS and Win 311, that'll make things a whole lot easier, thanks davmor2 :D
[14:11] <dwatkins> now I just need to stop DOSbox from taking up all the CPU cycles... or is that just under Win 311 it does that....?
[14:11] <davmor2> dwatkins: no guaranties it was just a thought being as it would of been made in 99 for win 98 :)
[14:17] <dwatkins> yeah, I'd completely forgotten it had anything but Windows executables, davmor2. I've also been tidying up my games recently, and can add it to the list of DOSbox images :)
[14:17] <dwatkins> There's a GUI for DOSbox on the Mac which is really handy, Boxer - makes it a whole lot easier to import and use disk images.
[14:18] <shauno> I do like boxer.  smooth as hell
[14:18] <davmor2> :)
[14:19] <davmor2> dwatkins: glad to be of help :)
[14:32] <bigcalm> I'm having a bad hair day. How do you show the collation information of a database in mysql?
[14:58] <bigcalm> Sometime ago I recall holding down alt and using the mouse scroll wheel to change between desktops. Is such a feature still available?
[14:59] <gord> bigcalm, i'm sure you can set it in ccsm
[15:00] <gord> never heard of that being default ever before though (might be mistaken)
[15:01] <bigcalm> Ta
[15:03] <oimon> anyone know if it's at all possible to find a radio programme that was once on iplayer, but no longer publically available?
[15:06] <popey> oimon: yes, contact the producer at the production company
[15:06] <popey> they will often let you have a copy
[15:11] <oimon> got to be worth a try
[15:11] <gord> its a shame that the bbc don't just "open the archives" with regards to radio
[15:13] <oimon> particularly as it regards a peel session song that is impossible to buy or obtain via any other means
[15:14] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Michael Wood] Android development tools Linux quick ref - http://www.michaelwood.me.uk/wordpress/2011/07/28/android-development-on-linux-quick-ref/
[15:16] <gord> oh well i imagine things get a little muddier for copyrighted works
[15:31] <gord> i *may* have signed up for what is essentially, a japanese sweet version of graze.com - kinda exciting; http://www.candyjapan.com/
[15:31] <dwatkins> oh my
[15:31] <popey> that sounds awesome!
[15:32] <popey> do they do referrals?
[15:32] <dwatkins> I suspect if I mention this to my GF she will be signed-up quicker than you can say "Thanks, gord-san"
[15:32] <gord> its just one guy i think :) does it as part of a "club" more than a big thing, so no referral system
[15:33] <gord> http://blip.tv/youcanplaythis/i-love-candy-anpanman-grape-gummy-5414392 - is the kind of stuff you get
[15:36] <dwatkins> seems quite a bit more expesive than Graze, but sounds like a great idea
[15:36] <dwatkins> perhaps with the economies of scale the price will go down
[15:37] <popey> its also international postage
[15:37] <dwatkins> yeah, I guessed that was the main reason for the price
[15:37] <dwatkins> anyhoo, hometime, toodleoo folks
[15:39] <gord> i'm hoping its worth it for the enjoyment it'll bring bi-weekly :)
[15:39] <gord> maybe i can start candyengland.com and send chewits to japan
[15:40] <popey> there is an american sweets place near me
[15:40] <popey> run by one of my wifes friends
[15:41] <popey> http://www.americansweets.co.uk/
[15:41] <Azelphur> japanese sweet graze :o
[15:41] <Azelphur> so tempting
[15:44] <bigcalm> Is SunJava any more usable than OpenJDK?
[15:45] <DJones> gord: I hope you don't get sent anything like white sherbet, I can just image the consecuences of a leaking package of white powder being delivered to your door, closely followed by a couple of sniffer dogs
[15:47] <gord> no officer, i pay this guy on the internet, i don't know him, its a guy, he sends me these packages from japan, i'm going to gaol aren't i? :(
[15:58] <andylockran> :)
[15:58] <andylockran> having a fun day
[16:11] <bigcalm> I'm seeing "3D" peppered around an email I'm trying to debug. Seems to be after every =. %20 is a space, what's 3D?
[16:12] <bigcalm> 3D is =
[16:12] <bigcalm> This is quite confusing
[16:16] <davmor2> bigcalm: it's cause 3D is the next big thing :D
[16:19] <bigcalm> 3D is over-rated :P
[16:21] <shauno> I've seen that before; is it now something to do with how they handle long lines?
[16:21] <shauno> *not
[16:23] <shauno> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quoted-printable#Quoted-printable_encoding
[16:24] <shauno> they use =(hex) to put 8bit chars in a 7bit body; then =3D means a literal =  (the same as having to escape / with another /, so // = /)
[16:31] <bigcalm> Aha
[16:31] <bigcalm> That makes sense
[16:32] <bigcalm> Some global end users are complaining that they are getting "weird" emails.
[16:32] <bigcalm> Seems that their email clients aren't seeing a difference between Plain Text and HTML parts of the message and just showing the whole lot as Plain Text
[16:33] <bigcalm> We recently moved the client's server from one host to another. This is really playing with my sanity this week
[16:33] <shauno> I don't recall email ever being sane :/
[16:34] <bigcalm> I wonder if some of the end users have email clients that can't cope with quoted-printable on plain text
[16:34]  * bigcalm attempts to set 7bit.
[16:35] <shauno> email tends to be either screwed up in ways you're used to; or screwed up in ways that are new to you.  it's never actually sensible
[16:35] <BigRedS> showing the whole thing in plain text is the way it should be
[16:36] <shauno> heh.  that's been a losing battle for a long time now :/
[16:36] <bigcalm> Heh
[16:37] <shauno> 7bit ascii is email's "native" tho.  as soon as you try to do anything remotely modern, it'll break for someone, somewhere
[16:37] <bigcalm> BigRedS: and everybody should use OS software. Just not going to happen. Client demands feature X, client pays for feature X. Web dev eats for another month
[16:38] <shauno> I tend to be happy as long as they do still include a text part.  luckily most html-only messages are spammy
[16:40] <bigcalm> Aye. This client do put out plain and html parts
[16:40] <bigcalm> Another client of ours just does HTML
[16:40] <bigcalm> And they wonder why they have end users complaining of spam
[16:41] <shauno> yeah.  that needs a spanking
[16:41] <bigcalm> Budgets
[16:41] <shauno> I believe spamassassin still has that as a red flag
[16:43] <shauno> (I tend to think budgets is the wrong answer for that one; it just means they chose the wrong product.  if you buy a mailshot program that has an artificially high risk of landing in people's spam folders, you bought the wrong one)
[16:43] <shauno> but that's just an opinionated-nerd rant :)
[16:47] <bigcalm> Hehe, you have a fair point :)
[16:48] <bigcalm> The client's project was built from scratch but another company which has since folded. I've been nursing it for a few years now
[16:49] <bigcalm> So, they can have the proper features if they will pay for the time needed
[16:49] <bigcalm> Going back to the other project, I've found why moving to a new host has messed with the plain-text body
[16:50] <bigcalm> http://pear.php.net/manual/en/package.mail.mail-mime.mail-mime.php  ---
[16:50] <bigcalm> $params['head_encoding'] - Type of encoding to use for the headers of the email. Default is "quoted-printable".
[16:50] <bigcalm> $params['text_encoding'] - Type of encoding to use for the plain text part of the email. Default is "quoted-printable".
[16:51] <shauno> so the new host has it's own defaults?
[16:52] <bigcalm> Old host had an older version of Mail_Mime and possibly different settings
[16:52] <bigcalm> I'm still digging
[16:55] <shauno> completely off-topic, managed to shatter my phone last night.  not entirely sure what to do with it now
[16:55] <bigcalm> Paper weight?
[16:56] <bigcalm> Ouch, it's 5.55pm
[16:56] <bigcalm> :'(
[16:56] <shauno> trying to decide if I really want to fork out 100eur to replace the screen, when there's apparently a new one due out later this year (or early next)
[16:57] <shauno> weighing off being a tightwad vs trying to use a shattered touchscreen for 6-9 months
[16:59] <shauno> (or alternatively; whether we can fool the phone company into replacing it under the insurance my wife has on hers)
[17:00] <directhex> insurers have the IMEI on record, no?
[17:00] <directhex> to prevent fraud
[17:00] <shauno> that's it.  I'd assume so, but not 100% sure
[17:01] <shauno> just feel like an idiot paying 90 quid for a bit of glass
[17:02] <shauno> (and also feeling like an idiot for the whole phone vs concrete fight in the first place)
[17:05] <shauno> or I could just use it as an excuse to try some of these android toys until apple bring out a new one ;)
[17:35] <AlanBell> what would be a good name for a podcast about free software in business?
[17:36] <directhex> "the free software in business podcast"
[17:36] <AlanBell> catchy, descriptive, I like it
[17:37] <mgdm> I was thinking of the pun angle
[17:37] <mgdm> "The Business Free Software Alliance"
[17:37] <mgdm> which is maybe a little more than just a podcast, but hey
[17:38] <davmor2> The Businoss podcast
[17:38] <AlanBell> I was trying to get some words together that had the initials RTFM or something like that
[17:39] <davmor2> AlanBell: ^
[17:40] <AlanBell> reasonable davmor2, but suffers from the "OMG I can't read/pronounce that" problem that Ubuntu has for some people
[17:41] <AlanBell> "Enterprise Class" is one option
[17:42] <davmor2> AlanBell: Open For Business
[17:42] <AlanBell> that was on my list too
[17:43] <AlanBell> a googleable word or phrase would be nice
[17:49] <davmor2> AlanBell: How about, Business Openers?
[17:54] <jacobw> Free Software: Serious Business
[17:57] <brobostigon> does seesmic needs need androids sync and or background data turned on, to automaticlly check for updates?
[18:01]  * BigRedS just found himself in an argument about the colour of the enter key
[18:02] <jacobw> Is it beige?
[18:11] <BigRedS> no, it's purple
[18:11] <BigRedS> I think
[18:11] <BigRedS> but apparently I didn' twin
[18:12] <AlanBell> jacobw: that is a good strapline
[18:14] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Last gasp OggCamp tickets - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/07/28/last-gasp-oggcamp-tickets/
[18:15] <gord> ubuntu one got more awesome :) http://voices.canonical.com/ubuntuone/?p=1023
[18:18] <Daviey> gord: But does it do versioned backups?
[18:18] <Daviey> because who uses *that*?
[18:19] <gord> ubuntu one is not a backup service ;)
[18:20] <Daviey> The really neat thing is, that i can use it to spread out files on multiple machines incase i accidently delete it.
[18:20] <Daviey> Oh, then if i delete it in one location...
[18:20] <gord> i guess, the delete's are propagated but i think u1 just renames
[18:21] <gord> but alterations of files can be very destructive
[18:31] <bigcalm> sudo pear install Mail_Mime
[18:31] <bigcalm> downloading Mail_Mime-1.8.1.tgz ...
[18:31] <bigcalm> 1.8.1 is the latest version, but it doesn't seem to get installed
[18:33] <Daviey> bigcalm: Does sudo apt-get install php-mail-mime not cut it?
[18:34] <bigcalm> Humm, that's the problem with having multiple channels for installing things
[18:34] <Daviey> well there are two types of channel.. the right one, and the wrong one.
[18:34] <Daviey> :D
[18:35] <bigcalm> What's wrong with PEAR (if it works)?
[18:35] <bigcalm> PEAR will give you up to date libs while apt will give you the last packaged version
[18:36] <bigcalm> Yeah...
[18:36] <bigcalm> Setting up php-mail-mime (1.5.3-0.1) ...
[18:36]  * bigcalm shrugs and wonders if it'll work
[18:37] <Daviey> pear IMO dirties a system.
[18:37] <bigcalm> Nope, didn't work. Too old a version
[18:37] <bigcalm> Same way CPAN does?
[18:37] <Daviey> yah
[18:37] <Daviey> I see no reason to use cpan directly.
[18:38] <Daviey> unless you just want to try something quick and dirty.
[18:38] <Daviey> but in production, NFW :)
[18:39] <bigcalm> A RackSpace server with RHE has up to date versions from PEAR, I'm trying to get my dev system to the same level
[18:39] <bigcalm> Tis a little silly
[18:39] <bigcalm> Now considering downgrading the lib version on the live server
[18:39] <shauno> what could possibly go wrong ;)
[18:41] <bigcalm> :'(
[18:41] <AlanBell> try some ruby packages
[18:42] <AlanBell> they won't work, but it will make you feel better about the PEAR ones
[18:42] <dutchie> i managed to install a ruby gem without breaking anythin
[18:42] <dutchie> g
[18:42] <Daviey> then punch yourself in the face, it's just as rewarding.
[18:43] <dutchie> i was quite pleased with that
[18:43]  * Daviey pats dutchie.
[18:44] <bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/653943/
[18:44] <bigcalm> Help :(
[18:46] <DJones> bigcalm: Don't know why, but that paste looks as though its just downloading and not installing
[18:46]  * BigRedS concurs with DJones 
[18:47] <BigRedS> I keep having trouble with pear. I've started downloading and building the things manually in the main
[18:51] <DJones> bigcalm: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3822373/pear-install-issue-downloads-but-doesnt-install
[18:55] <Daviey> this further adds to my view about using pear for module management :)
[19:12] <justinBUJITSUBRO> can anyone tell me where to got for russian grammer questions i am learning and i need help?
[19:13] <BigRedS> I bet there's a stackexchange for that
[19:13] <BigRedS> stackexchange is the new app
[19:13] <justinBUJITSUBRO> ok ill ceck it ok
[19:14] <BigRedS> http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/10848/russian-language-usage
[19:14] <BigRedS> you need to vote for it or something I think
[19:14] <BigRedS> but it's not actually there yet
[19:15] <justinBUJITSUBRO> ok but do u know if it is like a chat ?
[19:15] <BigRedS> hm?
[19:15] <BigRedS> I don't understand the question
[19:15] <justinBUJITSUBRO> sorry like quick responces
[19:16] <justinBUJITSUBRO> down here in belize one must learn to make the most of he or her time on the net
[19:16] <justinBUJITSUBRO> also thanks for helping me the other day
[19:17] <BigRedS> ah, no problem. Stackexchange isn't a chat site though
[19:17] <BigRedS> it's more a forum
[19:17] <BigRedS> ish
[19:18] <justinBUJITSUBRO> ah i see hey i want to upgrade my distro version but i dont whant to lose my files or have to back them up
[19:18] <BigRedS> A normal upgrade wont touch your files
[19:18] <BigRedS> it just upgrades the software
[19:18] <justinBUJITSUBRO> i have come to understand that i have to w8 for the next lts
[19:18] <BigRedS> backups are recommended, but no more than for anything else you might do
[19:18] <BigRedS> nah, you can upgrade to non-lts
[19:19] <BigRedS> well, Ubuntu lets you - whoever runs your computer or supports it might insist upon LTSs
[19:19] <justinBUJITSUBRO> ok i just dont want to get left behind
[19:20] <justinBUJITSUBRO> i think i like lts better personlly
[19:20] <justinBUJITSUBRO> how do i do an upgreade
[19:23] <justinBUJITSUBRO> thanks B.R.S bye
[19:23] <BigRedS> the update manager should have a button for it
[19:23] <BigRedS> but I'm not at a ubuntu machine at the minute so I can't say for sure
[19:24] <BigRedS> it'll be on the ubuntu wiki I'd imagine
[19:24] <justinBUJITSUBRO> ok cool man thank you very much
[19:24] <justinBUJITSUBRO> bye
[19:25] <BigRedS> no problem!
[19:45] <Myrtti> writing an email after a day of ripping wallpaper and doing wood filler feels weird
[19:45] <Myrtti> I didn't know I had the words in me
[19:58] <brobostigon> new torchwood, :)
[19:58] <oracology> brobostigon: excellent :)
[19:59] <oracology> hi everyone, btw. enjoying some noodle soup this fine evening.
[19:59] <brobostigon> bbc1 now
[20:00] <shauno> gah.  fantastic.  came running down stairs, popped the calbe box on, and it told me it's doing a firmware upgrade & to leave it alone
[20:01] <shauno> when did TV get this complicated :(
[20:24] <daubers> lo
[21:05] <BigRedS> g'morning
[21:06] <mgdm> 'lo
[21:08]  * daubers listens to Feist
[21:11] <brobostigon> good ep of new torchwood,
[21:11] <brobostigon> endof;
[21:11]  * BigRedS asks spotify for some Feist
[21:12] <daubers> BigRedS:  Snap :)
[21:12] <mgdm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fciD_II7NI Feist as you've not seen them/her before
[21:12]  * daubers moves computesr
[21:16] <Myrtti> awwww
[21:16] <Myrtti> oggcamp hotel is full :-(
[21:17] <dwatkins> mgdm: I really like that version of the song :)
[21:17] <Myrtti> this makes me sad
[21:20] <dwatkins> mgdm: the (second) link in my tweet appears to be slightly less jittery than yours: https://twitter.com/#!/glymph/status/96510195504652288
[21:22]  * dwatkins likes the last half second where she turns to the side in jubilation
[21:23] <mgdm> mine was the first hit on Google, I didn't research it all that hard :)
[21:23] <BigRedS> Aw sesame street! Awesome
[21:37] <AlanBell> Myrtti: got a tent?
[21:43] <brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
[21:48] <bigcalm> Good night brobostigon
[21:50] <Myrtti> AlanBell: Im not going camping on me birfdae :-(
[21:53] <AlanBell> but there could be cake!
[21:54] <Myrtti> Ill be at oggcamp alright
[21:54] <Myrtti> I just will not stay over in a tent.
[21:55] <AlanBell> fair enough
[21:55] <AlanBell> I will be in my own bed :)
[21:55] <Myrtti> :-\
[21:55] <AlanBell> some people are camping in my back garden
[21:57] <ali1234> is there a way to open an xterm window such that the command running inside it will read from stdin of the xterm?
[21:57] <ali1234> eg i want to do:
[21:57] <BigRedS> Ah, AlanBell, I meant to email you about that :)
[21:57] <BigRedS> Would it much trouble if I turned up on saturday morning?
[21:58] <ali1234> cat file : xterm -exec 'hexdump -C'
[21:58] <AlanBell> oh cool, the more the merrier
[21:58] <ali1234> and have it work
[21:58] <AlanBell> no problem BigRedS, send me an email and you will be added to the breakfast order :)
[21:58] <BigRedS> AlanBell: ah, I'm an awkward vegetarian, too :)
[21:59] <AlanBell> the type that doesn't even eat bacon?
[21:59] <BigRedS> the sort that means eveyrone else gets more bacon
[21:59] <BigRedS> :)
[21:59] <AlanBell> sheesh, one of them :)
[21:59] <BigRedS> the same. more sausages for you, too
[21:59] <AlanBell> nom
[22:00] <mattt> BigRedS: :(
[22:00] <BigRedS> but, yeah, I get back from france at ~11pm on the friday. Not sure I'd get to yours much before 1am which seems plain daft
[22:00] <AlanBell> yes, especially as we will all have been in the pub all evening
[22:01] <BigRedS> yeah, and I'll have been in the back of a van since ~geneva...
[22:01] <AlanBell> nice
[22:01] <AlanBell> Myrtti: do you need any help finding a hotel or somewhere local?
[22:01] <BigRedS> but any idea on what sort of times would be sane in the morning?
[22:03] <mattt> any other interesting talks going on at oggcamp?  the page is a bit sparse right now
[22:03] <AlanBell> being an unconference it will be sparse
[22:04] <AlanBell> you can turn up and talk
[22:04]  * AlanBell wonders what mattt will talk about
[22:05] <mattt> cooking w/ a wok 101
[22:07] <AlanBell> excellent
[22:08] <AlanBell> I don't have a wok at the moment, I think induction compatible woks might be a bit expensive
[22:09] <gord> huh, could induction stuff get hot enough to properly wok? i'm not very familiar with induction ovens at all
[22:09] <mattt> i got a brilliant wok at http://www.loonfung.com/ the other week, cost £6
[22:09] <AlanBell> induction is *fast*
[22:09] <gord> i miss my old wok, should get a new one, been so long since i cooked some nice wok food
[22:09] <AlanBell> we used to boil a kettle first if boiling stuff on gas, but the induction hob beats a kettle easily
[22:10] <mattt> gord: do it!  they're fun to use, and don't require scrubbing :D
[22:10] <AlanBell> I have a standalone double oven and 4 induction hobs, the total unit is rated at 52 amps
[22:10] <AlanBell> had to get the kitchen rewired to get it in
[22:11] <gord> induction does sound nice :)
[22:11] <AlanBell> geeky and faster than gas
[22:12] <gord> plus, you can say "now we are cooking with magnets"
[22:12] <mattt> hehe
[22:12] <mattt> never seen induction in action
[22:12] <gord> not much to see :)
[22:13] <AlanBell> apart from much leaping over to the hob to turn it down to stop things exploding
[22:28] <Daviey> i bet having an induction cooker and hobs significantly reduces gas bill.
[22:30] <AlanBell> transfers it to the electricity bill
[22:30] <Daviey> well yes. :)
[22:35] <gord> wonder what happens if you put a magnet on one
[22:35] <shauno> it gets warm?
[22:37] <gord> was thinking more, superhero origin story
[22:37] <gord> i could be oven man
[22:41] <mattt> hahaha
[22:42] <AlanBell> sadly it cuts out if you try to do anything remotely interesting with it