[00:05] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: You could bring up the wasteful expenditure at a county board meeting.
[00:06] <Takyoji> I don't think it was a county decision however on that detail
[00:06] <Takyoji> Moreso, the library's technology contractor
[00:06] <Takyoji> Fette Electronics, I believe it is
[00:07] <tonyyarusso> It doesn't matter who made the decision - what matters is who is *ultimately* in charge.  If it's a county library, they have to answer to the county board.
[00:07] <Takyoji> and gah, I still have yet to develop a name for my freelance business as of yet..
[00:07] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji Consulting!
[00:07] <tonyyarusso> Oh, btw - now that the shutdown is over the state parks along the Sakatah trail are open again.
[00:07] <Takyoji> My brother already gives me substantial crap as it is about my username. :P
[00:07] <Takyoji> Figuree
[00:08] <Takyoji> Figured*
[00:08]  * tonyyarusso will also be down sort of that direction to ride the Root River / Harmony-Preston trail in a couple of weeks.
[00:10] <tonyyarusso> Specifically, the evening of Aug 4th through the morning of Aug 8th (Thursday-Sunday)
[00:10] <tonyyarusso> err, 7th
[00:53] <rlaager> Takyoji: What did your county library do?
[00:54] <tonyyarusso> rlaager: Runs Windows for no reason.
[00:54] <Takyoji> They upgraded and/or added a few more computers, specifically JUST for viewing the online library catalog system
[00:54] <rlaager> Yeah, if you're annoyed by that, you should start a consulting company.
[00:54] <Takyoji> and got Windws 7 with all of them, with most likely the professional or ultimate license in order to lock down the user to only being able to use Firefox
[00:55] <Takyoji> That's what I'm trying to do, I just haven't devised the name yet. :P
[00:56] <rlaager> The library is really only concerned (well, or *should* be) about the final cost.
[00:57] <rlaager> I don't know about libraries, but Windows licenses for schools are almost free.
[00:58] <rlaager> But if you can save money by offering (on a consulting basis) supported Ubuntu LTS systems, that could be a win-win.
[01:15] <Takyoji> I'm actually starting to lose faith in Canonical
[01:16] <rlaager> I'm starting to lose faith in Ubuntu. As more init scripts get converted to upstart, I'm having more and more service management problems. Hiding the boot screen on *servers* and plymouth specifically have been major headaches.
[01:18] <Takyoji> and I don't know how I'm going to deal with Unity if I were to actually deploy Ubuntu for the use of a web-browser-only environment.
[01:19] <rlaager> oh, yeah, and that
[01:19] <Takyoji> And of course Unity would be a complete joke to enterprises.
[01:19] <rlaager> I have no idea how to use my computer when Unity comes up. If classic GNOME dies, I'm not sure what I'll do.
[01:19] <Takyoji> Also, I've also been wondering of how we could potentially unify this LoCo team with the other LUGs in Minnesota
[01:19] <Takyoji> We're all so segregated, and it would be nice if we actually all teamed up and did something for Software Freedom Day or similar.
[01:20] <Takyoji> Classic GNOME dies in the next release of Ubuntu
[01:21] <Takyoji> Thus I'm contemplating on either deferring people to using Linux Mint (which I'm starting to view as the best choice for home users), or otherwise the KDE Fedora
[01:21] <Takyoji> if KDE ever becomes stable
[01:21] <rlaager> I'm still a huge fan of Debian.
[01:21] <Takyoji> But yes, I'd really like us to unify all the Linux-related groups, and certainly not under the Ubuntu LoCo name, as I also feel that would greatly push people away from joining in a unified effort
[01:22] <Takyoji> and also, pretty much everyone I meet online now, outside of technology and Linux-related communities, they apparently have used Ubuntu before, but have fled to other distros because of Unity.
[01:23] <Takyoji> Yet Canonical and the internal Unity evangelists are trying to enforce their little creation that not everyone likes
[01:25] <Takyoji> Anyway, does anyone have any good ideas as of unifying the groups?
[01:25]  * Takyoji also bugs tonyyarusso, if they happen to have input.
[01:25] <tonyyarusso> You can't unify the groups; what you should be trying to do is *coordinate* them instead.
[01:26] <Takyoji> Well, I'd like some way to at least unify communication
[01:26] <Takyoji> Because it's all fragmented mailing lists and so on
[01:26] <tonyyarusso> That would be nice, or at least for some communication.
[01:26] <Takyoji> because if I were to try and start something, it would have to be sent and established through each LUG individually
[01:26] <tonyyarusso> The sad thing though is I don't think any of the old groups are active anymore besides TCLUG.
[01:27] <Takyoji> Well yea, I know there's TCLUG as being the most active
[01:27] <Takyoji> I know there's NORLUG which isn't as active, but there still are people that are within the channel that I don't think are within others.
[01:28] <tonyyarusso> The way this is SUPPOSED to work is that each distro has a statewide group and each city has a generic group.
[01:29] <tonyyarusso> But the only other distro I've seen even try is Fedora, and their local group barely exists (there is one guy, but not much else), and none of the other LUGs do much.
[01:29] <Takyoji> Also, what are your thoughts on Fedora (out of curiosity)? :P
[01:29] <tonyyarusso> So we have this awkward Twin Cities only overlap of an Ubuntu LoCo and TCLUG, and none of our LoCo people outstate make fun stuff happen :P
[01:30] <tonyyarusso> Fedora is a great distro crippled by an awful package management system :P
[01:30] <Takyoji> what part of rpm is bad though? The complexity?
[01:30] <tonyyarusso> I've just never found it to be reliable enough, nor as friendly and efficient as apt.
[01:30] <Takyoji> I was recently babbling with someone else whom boasts rpm over apt, while I've of course taken the opposite stance
[01:31] <tonyyarusso> Part of it isn't the tool's fault too.  Debian does a much better job of actually reviewing the packages in their repos and their dependencies and making sure stuff works together than Fedora/Red Hat does.
[01:31] <Takyoji> rpm has a lot more details to it, however I have had troubles with adding a package to a CentOS server due to packages being removed (that weren't in conflict), thought it could have been due to Plesk (which wasn't my choice)
[01:32] <Takyoji> and then I also have another person that boasts openSUSE for home users, including YaST in specific.
[01:32] <Takyoji> ahh, the QA
[01:33] <rlaager> RPM isn't very well maintained. Also, the tools for *creating* the packages are way better on the Debian side; really, they are non-existent on the RedHat side.
[01:33] <Takyoji> such as which tools though?
[01:34] <rlaager> Debian has the whole debhelper framework. There's also cdbs, though I don't use that, so I can't comment too intelligently. On the RPM side, everything is in a single flat text file.
[01:34] <Takyoji> I've been curious of trying at packaging, but the material I've come across only explains how to do it with rather minimal tools, such as just something to build the basis of the package and not much else
[01:34] <rlaager> Also, Debian has stuff like {bzr,cvs,git,svn,etc}-buildpackage
[01:35] <Takyoji> ahh, for finding dependencies?
[01:35] <tonyyarusso> and quilt and whatnot
[01:35] <Takyoji> I was thinking of perhaps trying at packaging some of the Humble Indie Bundle games, since most are just archives..
[01:42] <Takyoji> but yes, how would I be able to at least get TCLUG and the Ubuntu LoCo working together somewhat?
[09:20] <Takyoji> Gah, why is LibreOffice in Ubuntu always so unstable?