[00:50] <ScottK> Quintasan: Pong
[00:51]  * ScottK will try to look at New as well.
[03:50] <LaserJock> anybody happen to know why i would be getting  old nasty gnome notifications in KDE instead of in the KDE notification thingy?
[03:50] <LaserJock> well, I guess I should say, in addition to the the KDE notifications
[04:26] <ScottK> LaserJock: Because you have notify-osd installed and it's not behaving politely?
[04:27] <LaserJock> ScottK: hmm, well that's not good :-)
[04:27] <ScottK> No.  It's not.
[04:27] <ScottK> Wait, you said old Gnome notifications ...
[04:28] <ScottK> So notify-osd/libnotify
[04:30] <LaserJock> it's the old pre-notify-osd notifications, the yellow boxes
[04:32] <LaserJock> I'm having kde autostart gnome-setting-daemon for some other stuff, I would have thought that might have helped
[04:35] <LaserJock> grepping the ps output for notify just gives me knotify4, should a notify-osd process be running?
[04:59] <LaserJock> ScottK: so do GNOME apps have notifications in KDE if notify-osd is uninstalled?
[05:00] <LaserJock> so far I'm just using pidgin and xchat so I don't know if it's something specific to the messaging indicator
[05:13] <micahg> LaserJock: try grepping for notif
[05:16] <compugirl> kde 4.7 for natty packages ready?
[05:19] <LaserJock> micahg: I get knotify4 and notification-daemon
[05:19] <LaserJock> I'm guessing notification-daemon could be providing the nasty yellow bubbles?
[05:19] <micahg> LaserJock: right :)
[05:19] <compugirl> Anyone know shen to expect kde 4.7 packages?
[05:19] <compugirl> edit when
[05:20] <LaserJock> hmm, so I need to figure out why  it's starting up notification-daemon, I wonder if that's because I'm using GDM
[05:21] <micahg> probably, notify-osd provides notification-daemon
[05:21] <LaserJock> I found http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1767740 which says it happens when kwin crashes
[05:21] <LaserJock> micahg: thanks, I try switching to KDM for a while and see if that works
[05:21] <micahg> oh, gdm w/KDE?
[05:21] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:22] <micahg> LaserJock: do you have something that needs notification-daemon?
[05:22] <LaserJock> I have ubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop installed and GDM
[05:22] <LaserJock> pidgin and xchat
[05:22] <micahg> LaserJock: on oneiric?
[05:22] <LaserJock> no, natty
[05:23] <micahg> ah
[05:23] <micahg> in oneiric, plasma-widgets-workspace provides it
[05:25] <LaserJock> hmm, doesn't seem like it does in natty
[05:25] <micahg> nope
[05:26] <LaserJock> you think oneiric's version would be installable on natty?
[05:28] <micahg> idk, but probably could qualify for an SRU if someone wants to drive it
[05:43] <yofel> micahg: should be doable, that was a regression IIRC
[05:43] <yofel> morning
[06:09] <Quintasan> Good morning
[06:09]  * Quintasan goes to fix nm
[06:09] <Quintasan> yofel: You fixed that?
[06:09] <Quintasan> Thanks.
[06:09] <yofel> I dumped the patch
[06:09] <Quintasan> I woke up and thought about the same thing.
[06:10] <yofel> changelog said it was a cherry-pick anyway
[06:10]  * Quintasan goes to test upgrade now
[06:10]  * Quintasan grabs a Dr. Pepper as well
[06:10] <Quintasan> kubotu: order Dr. Pepper for Quintasan
[06:10]  * kubotu slides dr. pepper down the bar to Quintasan
[06:12] <Quintasan> Is there a PolicyKit KDE GSoC project?
[06:12]  * Quintasan can never stop grumbling about that
[06:13] <yofel> how would that look like? "Project: convert polkit from a PITA to something usable" ?
[06:14] <Quintasan> Yes
[06:14] <Quintasan> yofel: Now it (NM) works
[06:14] <yofel> yay
[06:16] <Quintasan> Somebody should get a release announcement
[06:16] <yofel> I've started with it, but I've only got a few mins left, after that I'll be at home in  probably 4-5h
[06:16] <yofel> do some more testing till then
[06:17] <Quintasan> I'm testing
[06:17] <Quintasan> Gotta do some more stuff like KMail
[06:23] <Quintasan> Hmm, KMail2 even works now
[06:23] <Quintasan> :D
[06:31] <yofel> yeah, seems so (was surprised too)
[06:32] <yofel> I removed pim from ninjas so that doesn't get copied by mistake, the packages for experimental are in staging right now
[06:33] <yofel> I'm gone for now then, happy testing
[07:15] <bambee> morning
[07:15] <bambee> question: where is kde-workspace-data ?
[07:15] <bambee> (4:4.7.0-0ubuntu2)
[07:16] <bambee> I've accidently removed kde-workspace-bin and kde-window-manager (I am an idiot), and I cannot install kde-workspace-bin 4:4.7.0-0ubuntu2 because kde-workspace-data 4:4.7.0-0ubuntu2 is missing
[07:28] <debfx> bambee: an archive admin needs to accept it
[07:40] <bambee> debfx: don't worry, I am forcing the install with dpkg
[07:41] <bambee> kde-workspace-bin 4:4.7.0-0ubuntu1 depends on kde-workspace-data 4:4.7.0-0ubuntu2 => It's just a revision bump, it should work
[07:41] <bambee> (until it's fixed correctly)
[07:44] <kallu> exit
[07:51] <bambee> debfx: problem solved
[07:59] <bambee> yofel: did we find a solution for the meeting, finally?
[08:02] <yofel> see ML, the meeting is today
[08:05] <bambee> arf :'(
[08:05] <bambee> so I need to schedule another one after DS
[08:05] <yofel> just schedule a new one, DS starts next friday, so plenty of time
[08:05] <bambee> ok
[08:06]  * yofel does another dep check on PIM
[08:14] <yofel> works fine too
[08:14] <yofel> bbl
[09:28] <yofel> hm, plasma-widget-quickaccess is being removed here
[09:28]  * yofel goes rebuilding
[09:33] <yofel> fancytasks rebuilt too
[09:37] <sheytan> Heya
[09:37] <sheytan> is 4.7 building for natty? :)
[09:43] <Quintasan> sheytan: It is built, we are testing
[09:43] <sheytan> Quintasan great :)
[09:45] <Quintasan> yofel: Are we having a kubuntu-dev meeting today or not?
[09:45] <yofel> I did send a mail that we're having one
[09:45] <yofel> any wiki page I need to update?
[09:46] <yofel> the procedure doesn't say so
[09:59] <yofel> good idea
[10:00] <Tm_T> 2100 UTC that is?
[10:00] <yofel> yes
[10:04] <bambee> well, I am busy for the weekend. I am back sunday in the evening
[10:06] <yofel> ok, now let's try to install full 4.7 on natty
[10:25] <linuxrocks> are 4.7 packages out yet?
[10:26] <yofel> nope
[10:26] <yofel> bah, kde-icons-mono failed
[10:27] <linuxrocks> dependancy problems? OpenSuse and fedora seem to have had packages for ages?
[10:27] <yofel> no, overwrite error (file conflict with the 4.6.5 packages)
[10:28] <yofel> and they a) do the packaging differently b) have a larger team I think
[10:28] <linuxrocks> hmm maybe a different ppa for 4.7 then would work
[10:29] <yofel> linuxrocks: the packages are done, there simply wasn't enough testing yet
[10:29] <debfx> apachelogger: the split tarballs use a desktop_<module>_<name> scheme for the gettext domain, so we are currently not importing any upstream translations for those
[10:29] <yofel> as my failure just now shows pretty well
[10:29] <linuxrocks> ok
[10:31] <linuxrocks> Maybe packaging a release like 4.7.1 for release will be easier as quirks would already be sorted out in the .0 release
[10:31] <yofel> oh, 4.7.0 was already much easier than 4.6.90, 4.7.1 will be trivial
[10:32] <CIA-52> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/kdeartwork] Philip Muškovac * 117 * debian/ (changelog control) Bump breaks/replaces on kmouth to catch 4.6.5 packages
[10:32] <apachelogger> as long as someone writes scripts
[10:32] <yofel> on my TODO list
[10:33] <yofel> hm, might as well use the blueprint
[10:35] <debfx> apachelogger: I do wonder why we don't just leave the desktop files as they are
[10:35] <debfx> we constantly break the translations for little benefit
[10:35] <apachelogger> now you know why ScottK and I do not wanna touch that stuff very much
[10:38] <debfx> so what are the reasons for doing that in the first place?
[10:41] <apachelogger> debfx: we can update translations after release
[10:41] <apachelogger> also add new translations forcustomers in one single place
[10:42] <yofel> anyone else who wants to do some testing? (esp. the pim stuff in staging)
[10:43] <yofel> oh great, kdm crashed at logout :(
[10:47]  * yofel wonders why he gets a resolution change between the KDM and ksplash wallpaper
[10:48] <yofel> or rather seems to be different scaling
[10:50] <debfx> apachelogger: we can update translations with the KDE SRU exception
[10:52] <debfx> I'd rather have customers feed translations back to upstream
[10:54] <apachelogger> debfx: the point of updates past release is also past kde supportance
[11:01] <Quintasan> yofel: PIM stuff works rather well here
[11:01] <Quintasan> yofel: I want to use kopypackages
[11:01] <Quintasan> tell me when to mash the enter button
[11:03] <debfx> apachelogger: I doubt that this is a practical issue, I would want some data on how many translations are updated post kde support
[11:07] <yofel> Quintasan: well, PIM works reasonably enough, and I can't see any dep issues
[11:07] <yofel> so feel free to kopy -a staging to experimental
[11:08] <muntiKubu> yofel: kde-window-manager and kde-workspace* being held back?
[11:08] <apachelogger> debfx: you should be talking to dpm really
[11:08] <yofel> muntiKubu: that's oneiric?
[11:09] <muntiKubu> yes
[11:09] <yofel> haven't updated yet today, sec
[11:12] <yofel> currently not here, but I've lost track of what package is installed from where @_@
[11:12] <debfx> dpm: ^
[11:12]  * dpm reads scrollback
[11:13] <yofel> apachelogger, debfx: you guys have some time to do natty 4.7 testing?
[11:13] <muntiKubu> yofel: bec of = dep on *0ubuntu1 build.  wouldn't it be better if dep >= simce there would be  more "0ubuntun+1" build coming?
[11:14] <apachelogger> yofel: define testing
[11:14] <yofel> no, I believe that dep should be that tight
[11:14] <apachelogger> also: if it breaks my system my gsoc mentor will come after you
[11:14] <apachelogger> now that he lives in germany that is a real threat actually
[11:14] <yofel> ah k, well, WFM :P
[11:14] <muntiKubu> just a thought..:(
[11:15] <apachelogger> yofel: from what ppa?
[11:15] <dpm> debfx, so is the question whether it makes sense to do an SRU of translations? And that you are saying that you'd like upstream stats on which have been updated? I think you can only get the stats from upstream, but in any case, unless it is a huge amount of work, I'd just go for it
[11:15] <yofel> apachelogger: ninjas
[11:16] <yofel> muntiKubu: seems like it's still stuck in NEW
[11:16] <yofel> ScottK: ^
[11:17] <muntiKubu> also what's that huge empty space in calendar from plasma digital clock on systray?
[11:18] <debfx> dpm: the questions is if we should continue to move the translations of desktop files into gettext/language packs
[11:18] <debfx> it's quite fragile and no one really maintains it
[11:19] <yofel> muntiKubu: seems to have to do with korganizer, if you go to settings -> calendar -> and uncheck "Display events" the space is gone
[11:20]  * yofel goes finishing the 4.7 announcement
[11:20] <muntiKubu> yofel: thanks..
[11:22] <Quintasan> yofel: Copied
[11:22] <yofel> thanks :)
[11:26] <yofel> Quintasan: hm, can you check whether you can add new events in korganizer?
[11:27] <yofel> I can in O, but not in natty
[11:29] <Quintasan> natty
[11:29] <Quintasan> hmm
[11:29] <Quintasan> testin
[11:29] <yofel> ah, I have no default calendar o.O
[11:30] <Quintasan> no default calendar here too
[11:31] <yofel> akonadi is running though...
[11:32] <Quintasan> works when I add a default calendar
[11:34] <Quintasan> ohshi
[11:34] <Quintasan> bbl
[11:36] <apachelogger> yofel: install done
[11:36] <apachelogger> all goody
[11:36]  * apachelogger does not dare reboot
[11:46] <yofel> bah, built against wrong assuan btw., fixed
[11:50] <yofel> hm, other than kdepim I can't find any issues though
[11:51] <yofel> how does that mess of software call itself these days in *short* ? Can one still use SC?
[12:03] <apachelogger> irssi <3
[12:03] <apachelogger> yofel: you broke my install
[12:04] <apachelogger> kde-workspace shite got removed on upgrade, or not installed or something
[12:05] <yofel> why?
[12:05] <apachelogger> how would I know
[12:05] <yofel> is kubuntu-desktop installed?
[12:05] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: if qapt were to implement support for apturl we could get rid of apturl ^^
[12:05] <apachelogger> yofel: well, not anymore its not
[12:05] <yofel> then try to install it
[12:07] <apachelogger> so I did
[12:08] <yofel> does that pull it back in?
[12:08] <apachelogger_> apachelogger: go away!
[12:09] <apachelogger_> yofel: seems me system is back
[12:09] <apachelogger_> network manager seems utterly broken though
[12:09]  * yofel realizes he didn't test the 4.7 + pim 4.4 combination
[12:09] <apachelogger_> can't detect shit
[12:09] <yofel> Quintasan: and NM works for you?
[12:09] <apachelogger> apachelogger_: bstd
[12:10] <apachelogger_> my pager is kaput though
[12:11]  * apachelogger_ breaks his qtcreator while he is at it
[12:14]  * yofel reboots into natty on his notebook
[12:36] <stefan`> apachelogger: kde-workspace-bin : Depends: kde-workspace-data (= 4:4.7.0-0ubuntu2) but 4:4.7.0-0ubuntu1 is to be installed
[12:37] <yofel> that's oneiric and needs ScottK
[12:37] <stefan`> apachelogger: this is why workspace, window-manager and kubuntu-desktop get removed
[12:38] <stefan`> apachelogger: ... if you use apt-get, that is
[12:39] <apachelogger> yofel: ^ fix my stuff
[12:39] <yofel> I'll see if I can debug NM in a bit, as for deps nothing's broken here
[12:42] <apachelogger> yofel: I think the solid parts got moved out of workspace
[12:43] <apachelogger> so supposedly we just need a newer version of knm
[12:43] <yofel> we *did* use a new snapshot
[12:43] <yofel> that's if Quintasan exported the right hash
[12:43] <apachelogger> or maybe that broke it then :P
[12:43] <Quintasan> :/
[12:44] <yofel> probably, but the old one was broken too
[12:44] <Quintasan> apachelogger: http://lamarque-lvs.blogspot.com/2011/07/plasma-nm-bugs-fixed-after-465.html
[12:44] <Quintasan> bb6e3b82dd23f05df8d875627622195e291b5a6d <- master
[12:44] <Quintasan> sup
[12:45] <Quintasan> I'm pretty sure I can copypaste tag just fine
[12:50]  * Quintasan test 4.7.0 on his machine
[12:51] <yofel> yay, kwin crahs
[12:51] <Quintasan> hmmm
[12:51] <yofel> true, NM is crap
[12:52] <Quintasan> yofel: Krusader needs to be fixed
[12:52] <Quintasan> depends on libkonq5a
[12:53] <yofel> true, was in a hurry before. kmess too
[12:53] <yofel> that should be all of the rdeps then
[12:53] <Quintasan> yofel: Isn't NM crap no matter what we do?
[12:53] <yofel> well, according to lamarque it *should* work... somehow
[12:54] <Quintasan> We're experiencing something totally opposite here :S
[12:54] <Quintasan> Well, I'm off to buy food and additional RAMz
[12:54] <Quintasan> bbl
[12:54] <yofel> /usr/lib/kde4/solid_networkmanager09.so in oneiric
[12:54] <yofel> now let's find the natty one
[12:59] <yofel> I think I know what happened, need to testbuild kde-workspace
[13:22] <apachelogger> could someone fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/+bug/754942
[13:22]  * apachelogger cant do debugging!
[13:30] <yofel> *sigh*
[13:30] <yofel> I knew it...
[13:30] <yofel> # list-missing files result:
[13:30] <yofel> -./usr/lib/kde4/solid_networkmanager07.so
[13:30] <yofel> fixing
[13:35] <yofel> kmess and krusader rebuild up too
[13:45] <ScottK> kde-wallpapers accepted.
[13:46] <ScottK> kde-workspace too
[13:51] <yofel> some proofreading appreciated: http://yofel.dyndns.org/pics/ext/47an.png
[13:54] <shadeslayer> yofel: i'd say that either use "Oneiric and Natty" or "11.10 and 11.04" 
[13:55] <shadeslayer> and follow that convention everwhere
[13:55] <yofel> That's how jr did it, I prefer 11.04 and 11.10, but 11.10 doesn't exist before october, so oneiric
[13:55] <shadeslayer> looks good otherwise
[13:56] <shadeslayer> yofel: yeah, its a pedantic fix ^_^
[13:56] <shadeslayer> and, hey everyone :)
[13:57] <yofel> right, hello ^^
[13:58] <shadeslayer> for some reason i have to boot into recovery and then start kdm, if i boot the stable kernel with the same args, my screen goes black when it tries to start KDM ... 
[13:59] <yofel> welcome to everyone's favourite black screen on boot issue
[13:59] <allee> ScottK: thx!! so only matter of archive update until kubuntu-desktop can installed again.
[13:59] <shadeslayer> known issue?
[13:59] <shadeslayer> i didn't know that
[14:00] <yofel> well, I think it's kms related, pops up in #+1 every now and then
[14:00] <yofel> try nomodeset 
[14:00] <shadeslayer> yofel: tried that, and it works with single nomodeset, just using nomodeset doesn't work
[14:01] <yofel> even more fun...
[14:03] <shadeslayer> yofel: btw upgrade still wants to remove kubuntu-desktop
[14:03] <yofel> *now* blame your mirror ^^ (I think)
[14:04] <shadeslayer> nope, i'm using the main archives
[14:04] <yofel> then find out what's broken, I've too many PPAs here...
[14:04] <shadeslayer> yeah will debug in a couple of minutes
[14:06] <shadeslayer> http://paste.kde.org/103267/ << here's something to look at, bbian
[14:06] <shadeslayer> s/bbian/bbiab/
[14:06] <kubotu> shadeslayer meant: "http://paste.kde.org/103267/ << here's something to look at, bbiab"
[14:16] <allee> yofel: add packages to 'kde pim 4.7 won't be ship ...  SC packages ...'    kde pim is now officially shippedwith SC, but not our pkgs
[14:17] <yofel> good catch
[14:18] <yofel> now reads "... won't be shipped together with our KDE SC 4.7 packages ..."
[14:20] <yofel> apachelogger: who's the admin of those auto-generated todo pages using the blueprints again?
[14:24] <allee> shadeslayer: isn't this the kde-workspace{-data,-bin} version mismatch?   Try apt-get install kdeworkspace-bin
[14:26] <apachelogger> yofel: chrisjohnston
[14:26] <allee> shadeslayer: or apt-cache policy kde-workspace-{bin,data}  # still not same version in oneiric
[14:26] <yofel> thanks
[14:42] <shadeslayer> allee: yofel http://paste.kde.org/103285/
[14:42] <yofel> ok, NM not totally broken anymore
[14:43] <yofel> now I would appreciate it if it would show me some networks...
[14:45] <shadeslayer> aha found the problem
[14:45] <mfraz74> any ideas what is causing the places panel in dolphin to have a black background?
[14:45] <shadeslayer> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[14:45] <shadeslayer>  kde-workspace-bin : Depends: kde-workspace-data (= 4:4.7.0-0ubuntu2) but 4:4.7.0-0ubuntu1 is to be installed
[14:45] <allee> shadeslayer: -data is not available as 0ubuntu2.   AFAIU scott approved the missing version so archive should be udated soon
[14:46] <shadeslayer> allee: yeah :)
[14:47] <yofel> apachelogger: NM fixed, you need to logout though
[14:47] <apachelogger> not again!
[14:47] <apachelogger> zomg
[14:48] <yofel> well, try it without, but restarting plasma gave me no networks :/
[14:48] <apachelogger> course not youd' have to restart kded 
[14:48] <shadeslayer> did you refresh the cache ? :P
[14:48] <yofel> oops, true
[14:48] <shadeslayer> oic
[14:49] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: like did you see my latest outburst of madness?
[14:49] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: no ... should i ?
[14:49] <apachelogger> of course
[14:50] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: http://people.ubuntu.com/~apachelogger/screencasts/phonon-qml-glslrgb32-speed-experiment.mp4
[14:50] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: i've be busy poking my shiny plasmoid to connect to my Dataengine
[14:51] <apachelogger> sounds like porn really
[14:51]  * yofel has been busy fixing 4.7
[14:52] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: QML does not like Plamsma dataengines it seems
[14:52] <apachelogger> qml likes everything
[14:52] <yofel> and here I wanted to do some docs recap for the meeting later -.-
[14:52] <apachelogger> it is javascript after all
[14:53] <shadeslayer> true, but then why does it not want to read my dataengine? :P
[14:53] <apachelogger> oh right, I'll likely not be able to make the meeting
[14:53] <yofel> :(
[14:53] <yofel> what's up?
[14:54] <apachelogger> friend having birthday
[14:54] <apachelogger> to hell with social obligations I say
[14:54] <yofel> ah, then I'll forgive you ;)
[14:54] <apachelogger> yofel: I can drop some questions by mail if you want :P
[14:54] <yofel> uh... sure...
[14:56] <yofel> ok... with NM fixed. Any issues that need to be taken care of? I'm done with my list
[14:57] <mfraz74> any ideas http://imagebin.org/165453 ?
[14:57] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: do we need to include the moc only when subclassing from QObject?
[14:58] <shadeslayer> mfraz74: 0.o
[14:58] <yofel> +1
[14:58] <yofel> mfraz74: any change if you disable compositing?
[14:58] <shadeslayer>  ... or restart kwin ?
[14:58] <mfraz74> yofel: none
[14:59] <yofel> never seen something like that till now
[14:59] <mfraz74> it is like that when I boot the netbook
[14:59] <mfraz74> have it on 2 netbooks, but no other device
[15:00] <shadeslayer> possible driver bug?
[15:00] <yofel> would be my guess too, but I'm really guessing
[15:01] <shadeslayer> likewise
[15:01] <mfraz74> don't remember seeing it before upgrade to 4.6.5
[15:02] <yofel> I could try to upgrade my backup flash install later and try it on my eeePC
[15:02] <yofel> but that'll have to wait
[15:02] <mfraz74> where would the settings for this sort of thing be stored?
[15:03] <mfraz74> odd that it only seems to be affecting the places panel in both dolphin and in the "save as" window
[15:04] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: got a sec?
[15:05] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: you should not need to include the moc at all
[15:06] <shadeslayer> oh ok
[15:06] <apachelogger> RTFM
[15:06]  * apachelogger has had an itchy nose all day long and doesn't know why
[15:07] <mfraz74> if I drag the places panel outside of dolphin the background is transparent as in the quick access browser
[15:07] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: i was looking at a techbase tutorial which said that you need to include the moc because we are subclassing from QObject
[15:07] <shadeslayer> whereas Qt docs said that you don't have to, which is why i asked
[15:08] <apachelogger> where do qt docs say that?
[15:08] <apachelogger> where does techbase say that?
[15:08] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: http://i.imgur.com/2vrbH.png >> thats my dataengine, and http://paste.kde.org/103291/ is my plasmoid, any ideas why its not working?
[15:09] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/Plasma/DataEngines << techabase docs that say i need to include moc
[15:10] <apachelogger> ok, not all that wrong
[15:10] <apachelogger> so where does Qt say you don't need the include?
[15:10] <shadeslayer> yeah trying to find where i saw that
[15:10] <apachelogger> import Qt 4.7
[15:11] <apachelogger> you should import QtQuick 1.0 really
[15:12] <apachelogger> also
[15:12] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: #plasma
[15:12] <shadeslayer> oh oh oh
[15:12] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: yeah one sec
[15:12] <shadeslayer> i think i know how to fix it
[15:14] <debfx> bah, stupid file overwrite errors
[15:16] <yofel> debfx: got some still?
[15:16] <yofel> or do you mean O?
[15:16] <yofel> ok...
[15:16] <yofel> shadeslayer: how's kstars?
[15:16] <apachelogger> O O O your boat gently down the stream
[15:16] <debfx> yofel: I've mixed up kde-workspace-data and kdebase-workspace-data
[15:17] <yofel> oh
[15:17] <shadeslayer> yofel: a) no one uploaded new indi to archives
[15:17] <yofel> shadeslayer: how's it in the sense of backportability?
[15:17] <shadeslayer> b) i've submitted my CMake patch to kstars upstream, waiting on their comments first
[15:17] <yofel> since that's about the last thing that's left and possible to do
[15:18] <shadeslayer> yofel: jr had packages for natty, i forward ported two of those to oneiric
[15:18] <shadeslayer> so natty actually has better indi support than oneiric
[15:18] <shadeslayer> everything else indi is FTBFS on O
[15:19] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: the video player looks slow
[15:19] <shadeslayer> but neat anyways
[15:19] <yofel> shadeslayer: what needs to be done for natty 4.7 then?
[15:20] <shadeslayer> yofel: dirty fix : copy over jr's package and make kstars build with those
[15:20] <shadeslayer> proper fix: upload the 2 packages we have for oneiric into archives and backport those to natty
[15:22] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: what is slow?
[15:22] <apachelogger> the scrolling
[15:22] <yofel> shadeslayer: can I just backport those before they're in the archive? (the bindings aren't either)
[15:22]  * apachelogger notes that QGV is pretty much dying from all the update requests from all over the scene
[15:22] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: the video looks like its stuttering
[15:23] <shadeslayer> yofel: if they build, i don't see why not
[15:23] <apachelogger> perhaps on the video of the video *shrug*
[15:23] <shadeslayer> but kstars won't pick up indi without my findINDI.cmake patch
[15:24] <shadeslayer> http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/102119/
[15:24] <yofel> is that in the O package?
[15:24] <shadeslayer> i haven't uploaded the O package yet, i'm waiting for upstream to comment on that
[15:24] <yofel> if not I would say we just delay it, I just checked and old kstars works fine with 4.7
[15:25] <shadeslayer> upstream says that they will look at it in a couple of hours, so we could just release kstars after we release the rest of 4.7
[15:25] <yofel> ack
[15:26] <yofel> if nobody has any new breakage to report I'll copy the packages then
[15:26] <yofel> apachelogger, Quintasan ^
[15:32]  * yofel goes merging kde-l10n branches
[15:32] <apachelogger> sure why not
[15:36] <yofel> apachelogger: how does your new script fetch the tarballs? you don't define the download location anymore
[15:38] <yofel> ah, didn't read the script properly
[15:38] <yofel> sry
[15:41] <CIA-52> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/kde-l10n-common-natty] Philip Muškovac * 100 * debian/ (config README.source build-l10n.sh changelog control rules) Merge changes from master branch for the 4.7 packages
[15:44] <CIA-52> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/kde-l10n-common-natty] Philip Muškovac * 101 * debian/ (changelog config) 4.7.0 release
[15:46] <CIA-52> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/kde-l10n-common-natty] Philip Muškovac * 102 * debian/config fix used branch
[15:47] <yofel> ok then, copying
[15:49] <Quintasan> yofel: Copy em all!
[15:50] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: tf2 in 45 minutes?
[15:50] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: Not really, skateboarding, if it rains I'll join you in TF
[15:51] <shadeslayer> ok
[15:54] <yofel> ooops
[15:55] <yofel> I won't be able to upload kde-l10n to backports... we're out of space
[15:55] <shadeslayer> heh
[15:55] <shadeslayer> do we even upload l10n to backports?
[15:55] <shadeslayer> iirc we didn't 
[15:55] <yofel> the other backports have kde-l10n
[15:55] <mfraz74> can anything be removed from the PPA?
[15:56] <shadeslayer> dunno then
[15:56] <yofel> well, it's 4.5.3 lucid and 4.6.2 maverick currently
[15:56] <yofel> and KDE uses a lot of space
[15:56] <micahg> debfx: can you revert your change from libjpeg-dev to libjpeg62-dev (as soon as my fix gets uploaded and built)?  libjpeg8 won't be providing the virtual package anymore
[15:57] <yofel> wgrant: you think we can get yet another increase of space? it's already 10GiB
[15:57] <Riddell> I'd remove the backports for anything other than the current release
[15:57] <Riddell> if you want a new software you should upgrade to newer releases
[15:57] <yofel> hm, I'll leave maverick in there, but I'll purge lucid
[15:58] <shadeslayer> don't
[15:58] <shadeslayer> yofel: the lucid packages were sponsored
[15:58] <yofel> didn't yet...
[15:58] <mfraz74> isn't lucid the LTS release?
[15:58] <shadeslayer> yep
[15:58] <yofel> it is
[15:58] <yofel> well, shadeslayer is right, had forgotten about that for a moment
[15:58] <yofel> maverick it is then
[15:59] <shadeslayer> Riddell: get us moar space :P
[15:59] <mfraz74> how much more space is required?
[15:59] <yofel> well, I pinged wgrant, he should know (I hope
[15:59] <yofel> mfraz74: ~2G I would say
[16:00] <yofel> at least including some buffer
[16:00] <shadeslayer> 2-3 Gigs should be enough i guess
[16:00] <Riddell> it's up to the launchpad sysadmins I think, you would need to open a question on answers.lp.net 
[16:00] <Riddell> but as I say my view has been we should only keep backports around for the current release
[16:00] <mfraz74> what does it mean when it says newer version available? can those packages be deleted?
[16:00] <shadeslayer> mfraz74: it means a newer version of the package has been uploaded in the archive for that release
[16:01] <shadeslayer> so the archive package will superseed the one in the PPA
[16:01] <mfraz74> shadeslayer: which means those packages can be removed from the PPA?
[16:02] <shadeslayer> mfraz74: not necessarily
[16:02] <shadeslayer> it just means a newer version is available and you can bump the version of the package in your PPA to superseed the one in the archives
[16:03] <yofel> kdepim for lucid can go though, lucid-updates has a newer one
[16:04] <shadeslayer> yep
[16:08] <mfraz74> i see you've only got .5GiB free
[16:09] <girl_> When kde 4.7 backports is ready will I be able to revert changes with ppa-purge?
[16:09] <yofel> that was the first batch, the script errored out in between, some more packages coming
[16:10] <yofel> girl_: you _should_ be able to revert all package changes with ppa-purge. But if you want to revert your user configuration you should first make a backup of your ~/.kde folder
[16:11] <girl_> yofel: ok thanks for the insight
[16:11] <mfraz74> is Amarok 2.4.2 going to be in Oneric?
[16:13] <yofel> ok, second batch arrived and is waiting for publishing
[16:14] <mfraz74> repository size has reached 100%
[16:14] <yofel> shadeslayer: I'll go remove maverick, people really should upgrade to natty if they don't want the LTS
[16:14] <yofel> and they should have the packages already installed anyway
[16:15] <shadeslayer> yus
[16:15] <shadeslayer> yofel: thats fine with me
[16:15] <yofel> good :)
[16:18] <debfx> mfraz74: no, but 2.4.3 if someone packages it :)
[16:19] <mfraz74> :)
[16:19] <mfraz74> didn't think 2.4.3 is out yet
[16:20]  * yofel will write kcleanppa over the weekend...
[16:20] <yofel> anyway, goodbye mav
[16:20] <mfraz74> bye bye maverick
[16:21] <yofel> and all published https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/backports/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=natty&batch=200 :D
[16:22] <laksa> at last. its worth waiting
[16:22] <yofel> enjoy :)
[16:22] <yofel> translations coming once the janitor made some space...
[16:22] <debfx> micahg: sure, if I can remember which packages I've changed ;)
[16:23] <micahg> debfx: gwenview I think
[16:23]  * debfx invokes reverse-build-depends
[16:28] <mfraz74> how come if you view the failed to build log it is still showing karmic and jaunty?
[16:29] <yofel> the database doesn't throw the history away
[16:29] <yofel> only the actual package data is deleted, not it's traces in the database
[16:29] <yofel> *its
[16:29] <mfraz74> oh, so the 60 failed builds aren't necessary about the current available packages?
[16:30] <girl_> all natty packages ready for upgrading an english kde installation of 4.6.5?
[16:31] <yofel> yes
[16:34] <girl_> 10.1 GiB (100.00%) of 10.0 GiB wink:
[16:34] <mfraz74> girl_: i noticed that too
[16:34] <yofel> it's soft-limit, you can't upload anymore, but the builds will still publish
[16:35] <mfraz74> just tried to update - it wants to remove 16 packages including kde-window-manager
[16:35] <yofel> mfraz74: get me the whole list
[16:36] <mfraz74> yofel: http://paste.ubuntu.com/654609/
[16:37] <yofel> mfraz74: any reason why it wants to remove kubuntu-desktop? (try with -V)
[16:37] <girl_> mfraz74 try aptitude instead of apt-get
[16:38] <mfraz74> http://paste.ubuntu.com/654611/
[16:39] <mfraz74> http://paste.ubuntu.com/654612/
[16:40] <yofel> the last one looks sane
[16:40] <girl_> kdebase-workspace-data is missing from ppa
[16:41] <yofel> that's replaced by kde-workspace-data
[16:41] <girl_> ah ok
[16:43] <girl_> but the announcement on kubuntu.org says 10hours ago kde 4.7 how is that possible it was only just built!
[16:43] <yofel> I wrote it 10h ago, and drupal stupidly shows the time when I first pressed save, not when I published it :/
[16:45] <girl_> kubuntu.org has copyright 2010 every year I file a bug report about that and it is changed in nov or dec then next year we have a new bug
[16:45] <yofel> heh, where?
[16:45] <girl_> down on the page
[16:45] <girl_> © 2010 Canonical Ltd. and the Kubuntu community. Icons copyright of Oxygen icon theme  Kubuntu and Canonical are registered trademarks of Canonical Ltd.
[16:46] <mfraz74> what happens regarding the removal of nepomukcontroller?
[16:46] <yofel> mfraz74: that's now in -runtime I think
[16:46] <yofel> or workspace, not sure
[16:46] <mfraz74> yofel: so going ahead with  http://paste.ubuntu.com/654609/ should work?
[16:47] <girl_> yofel: so the copyright will change in december :d
[16:47] <LaserJock> anybody know when agateau is generally around?
[16:47] <yofel> mfraz74: you had http://paste.ubuntu.com/654612/ at one point, that's more correct
[16:48] <yofel> I think your digikam2 package confuses apt
[16:48] <mfraz74> yofel: sorry, that's the one that i meant! pasted from the wrong URL
[16:48] <yofel> as I can't reproduce that situation here
[16:48] <girl_> let me try please wait rebooting fro windows
[16:48] <mfraz74> digikam is 2.0 from https://launchpad.net/~philip5/+archive/extra
[16:50] <mfraz74> going to try it on my netbook first
[16:52] <girl> refreshing repos
[16:54] <yofel> hm, something else it seems, still doesn't remove kubuntu-desktop
[16:56] <girl> what is the size of a general upgrade in mb
[16:56] <yofel> depending on what you have installed 150-300MB I think (without debugging symbols)
[16:57] <girl> with debugging symbols
[16:57] <girl> 700 mb?
[16:57] <yofel> can go up to 1GB I think, but 500-700 sounds reasonable
[16:58] <laksa> 166 updates? can someone confirm?
[16:58] <yofel> looks right, with kde-full I have 240 in my test setup right now
[16:59] <laksa> cool
[17:02] <LaserJock> what's the difference between kubuntu-ppa/ppa and kubuntu-ppa/backports ?
[17:03] <yofel> LaserJock: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/KubuntuPPAs
[17:03] <LaserJock> awesome, a wiki page for everything :-)
[17:04] <mfraz74> 165 to upgrade here
[17:07] <girl> Working fine. No broken dependencies, nothing to remove
[17:07] <LaserJock> 156 upgraded, 39 newly installed, 11 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[17:07] <mfraz74> having problems installing libkdcraw20
[17:07] <girl> Upgrade from 4.6.5 on natty with debugging symbols and qt development tools
[17:08] <girl> Thanks a bunch Package Ninja's
[17:09] <mfraz74> had to remove kdegraphics-strigi-plugins and kdegraphics-thumbnailers
[17:09] <yofel> mfraz74: saw it, dpkg -r --force-depends libkdcraw-20
[17:09] <yofel> should work then
[17:13] <mfraz74> yofel: still not working
[17:14] <yofel> what's wrong now?
[17:15] <yofel> ah wait, digikam2 will pull that in again
[17:16] <mfraz74> yes libkdcraw-20 is trying to overwrite libkdcraw.so.20.0.0
[17:16] <yofel> right, that's the same module, in 2 differently named packages
[17:18] <mfraz74> any ideas?
[17:19] <yofel> great, the debian policy allows either libVERSION and lib-VERSION
[17:20] <mfraz74> what a wonderful policy!
[17:20] <ScottK> So what two packages provide it?
[17:20] <yofel> our libkdcraw20 and the libkdcraw-20 from the other PPA
[17:21] <yofel> IMO he should Break/Replace/Provide libkdcraw20, or add a transitional package
[17:23] <yofel> or just rename his packages
[17:23] <mfraz74> is there anything I can do to fix it my end?
[17:24] <ScottK> Email "other PPA owner" and volunteer that they ought join us and help with official packages instead of maintaining their own.
[17:24] <ScottK> mfraz74: Installing packages from random PPAs isn't generally a great idea.
[17:25] <yofel> at least we don't support every little PPA out there, and have no intention of doing so
[17:27] <LaserJock> ScottK: whaaa?!  I thought that was why PPAs were created ....
[17:28] <LaserJock> :p
[17:28] <yofel> PPA's were created to add an easy way to break user systems post-release ;)
[17:29] <mfraz74> lol
[17:29] <LaserJock> I thought it was an easy way to get root access to thousands of computers ....
[17:29] <DarkwingDuck> Good morning guys
[17:29] <ScottK> smokegen accepted.
[17:29] <allee> mfraz74: AFAIU name-APIVERS is used with name ends with a number. Otherwise nameAPIVERS
[17:29] <yofel> moin DarkwingDuck
[17:29] <ScottK> Good afternoon DarkwingDuck
[17:30] <yofel> allee: it says when it's "confusing" - that can mean anything...
[17:30] <DarkwingDuck> So, now that I have stable internet again...
[17:30] <DarkwingDuck> I'm Back :D
[17:30] <mfraz74> i see phonon config is still broken ::(
[17:30] <yofel> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-sharedlibs.html#s-sharedlibs-runtime - first paragraph
[17:31] <yofel> btw - anyone an idea why the geolocation plugin is broken in digikam oneiric?
[17:31] <yofel> not sure where to start looking
[17:32] <yofel> just says "Geolocation using Marble not available"
[17:32] <ScottK> libindi binaries accepted.
[17:33] <allee> yofel: if one get's easily confused yes it can be anything.  Otherwise I would sign only the 'if ends with a number' argument ;)
[17:33] <DarkwingDuck> Quintasan: you have a link for that merge request by any chance?
[17:33] <mfraz74> and I still get a warning when I try to setup social desktop with username and password
[17:33] <yofel> allee: agreed (thinking of gtk naming for example)
[17:34] <shadeslayer> ScottK: thanks! 
[17:36] <yofel> dputting kde-l10n
[17:44] <mfraz74> if I bring up a window and then close it, the icon stays in the task manager
[17:54] <mabl> hello, i did an upgrade to from 4.6.5 to 4.7, plasma is now crashing on login. I have no desktop whatsoever. Tracelog http://paste.kde.org/103369/ 
[18:07] <girl> mabl try logging in to recovery mode and deleting plasma config file
[18:07] <mabl> girl, thx - i did that - work
[18:08] <girl> You're Welcome
[18:09] <girl> mabl: Upgrade feedback please is everything working fine
[18:10] <mabl> yes, up to now, everything is great (except that small grid container problem, but i guess that was by an external deb package, can't remember)
[18:10] <laksa> i got the same thing here. plasma crash. 
[18:10] <laksa> how you delete plasma config file? noob here
[18:10] <girl> mabl: performance improvements?
[18:11] <girl> laksa: boot in recovery mode or at login (kdm) select session type console login
[18:11] <mabl> not that i can tell of, but since I have a brand new i7 laptop on intel ssd, i hardly have any performance problems
[18:11] <girl> mabl:the type your username and password when prompted
[18:12] <girl> then cd to your home folder
[18:12] <yofel> laksa: the applet config file is ~/.kde/share/config/plasma-desktop-appletsrc
[18:12] <yofel> make a copy of it before deleting it though
[18:12] <yofel> (in case it's not the problem)
[18:12] <laksa> got it. 
[18:13] <yofel> mabl: that grouping containment is part of kde-plasma-addons, so not external, but I'm clueless how to even try to reproduce that crash
[18:13] <DarkwingDuck> ScottK: ping
[18:14] <girl> yofel: Maybe it comes when a specific plasmoid is present and active?
[18:14] <ScottK> DarkwingDuck: Pong
[18:14] <girl> some plasmoids tend to cause plasma to crash after upgrade
[18:14] <ScottK> The issue with upgrade failures and plasma-config needs to be reported upstream.
[18:15] <mabl> yofel, when i deleted the plasma-desktop-appletsrc, all plasmoids where reset. I now only activated the grid desktop, and got the crash again
[18:15] <yofel> grid desktop, let's see
[18:16] <girl> Will try to reproduce when mine installs: slow internet package here only 1 Mbit/s
[18:16] <yofel> ok, that is trivial to reproduce
[18:20] <laksa> after delete plasma config it work.
[18:20] <girl> laksa: Glad to here it
[18:21] <mabl> my brother also just tried it, it also crashes
[18:23] <yofel> there are reports already
[18:23] <yofel> kde bug 278222 , kde bug 278725 for example
[18:25]  * yofel adds some votes
[18:50] <yofel> great, system-config-printer-kde broken
[18:50] <yofel> or rather the python bindings
[18:50] <yofel> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/76243052/xsession-errors
[18:51] <debfx> yofel: see http://bugs.debian.org/634860
[18:52] <yofel> ouch
[18:52] <ScottK> Working on it.
[18:53] <debfx> we could replace the kcm with a link to http://localhost:631‎/ ;)
[18:54] <yofel> I'll try to force-downgrade pykde to 4.6.5 then for now
[18:55] <Quintasan> DarkwingDuck: One moment
[18:56] <yofel> kdebindings-4.6.5.orig.tar.bz2 *headdesk*
[18:56] <Quintasan> >"Please switch python-qt4 to dh_python2"
[18:56] <Quintasan> >dh_python2
[18:57] <Quintasan> WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?
[18:57] <Quintasan> DarkwingDuck: https://code.launchpad.net/~quintasan/kubuntu-docs/bug804244/+merge/67796
[18:57] <yofel> because everything else is deprecated
[19:00]  * yofel throws everything except pykde out of kdebindings control
[19:03] <ScottK> yofel: pykde is it's own source package now.  What are you doing?
[19:03] <yofel> trying to downgrade it, which means using old kdebindings
[19:04] <ScottK> Oh.
[19:04] <yofel> OR I try to patch the old packaging into new pykde4...
[19:13] <DarkwingDuck> Quintasan: thanks.
[19:14] <DarkwingDuck> Quintasan: Approved. Thank you again.
[19:17] <LaserJock> so 4.7.0 fixed my gnome-app notification problem
[19:17] <LaserJock> I'm a happy camper now
[19:49] <ScottK> Great.
[19:56] <Girl> KDE 4.7 PPA installation with muon ... seems to have stalled at 40% installing says running dpkg
[20:02] <Jonno> Are there any particular reason plasma-wallpapers-addons in oneiric must depend on kde-wallpapers and kdewallpapers?
[20:02] <Jonno> I mean, it contains plugins that I would use *instead* of the regular wallpapers provided by kde-wallpapers and kdewallpapers...
[20:24]  * yofel does one last proofreading of his wiki page
[20:25] <julianrabe> hi
[20:25] <julianrabe> i'd like to set up my own .deb-repository
[20:25] <julianrabe> and everything works fine expect the gpg-signing
[20:26] <julianrabe> *except
[20:26] <ScottK> Not really a Kubuntu specific topic.
[20:27] <julianrabe> ok, so where sjulianrabe: should i go then? i already asked #debian and #kubuntu, last one sent me here
[20:28] <ScottK> It's a general support question, so #ubuntu is the right IRC channel, but honestly you're unlikely to get much help there.  For something like that, docs on wiki.ubuntu.com or help.ubuntu.com are your best bet.
[20:29] <julianrabe> ok, ill go there, thanks 
[20:42] <JontheEchidna> Jonno: The weather wallpaper plugin uses wallpapers from those packages
[20:52] <shadeslayer> jtechidna: i've sent you a request on tf2
[20:52] <yofel> folks, meeting in 8mins, no tf2
[20:52] <jtechidna> just rebooted into linux
[20:52] <jtechidna> :P
[20:53] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: same here ;)
[20:53] <shadeslayer> oh kewl! meeting time
[20:53]  * yofel gets this feeling of impending doom
[20:53] <debfx> yofel: can't we hold the meeting in tf2?
[20:53] <yofel> LOL
[20:54] <yofel> since I never had time to set it up yet, probably not ^^
[20:55] <JontheEchidna> lol
[20:55] <shadeslayer> debfx: btw whats you steam id? i tried debfx and it didn't find anything :P
[20:55] <yofel> Quintasan, Riddell, apachelogger_, ScottK, claydoh: dev meeting in 5 mins
[20:55] <ScottK> yofel: Where's your wiki page
[20:55] <yofel> ah, apachelogger_ said he'll be absent
[20:55] <yofel> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/PhilipMuskovac/KubuntuDevApplication
[20:55] <ScottK> Thanks.
[20:56] <shadeslayer> where be the meeting?
[20:57] <yofel> not sure if -meeting is free, can we do it here? 
[20:58] <JontheEchidna> shouldn't be a problem
[20:58] <yofel> it's quiet anyway
[21:00] <JontheEchidna> shall we begin, mentlegen?
[21:00] <yofel> sure, who's there?
[21:00] <yofel> o/
[21:01] <Quintasan> \o
[21:01] <JontheEchidna> DarkwingDuck: council ping
[21:01] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: council ping
[21:01] <debfx> o/
[21:01] <debfx> JontheEchidna: it's not a council meeting
[21:01] <ScottK> \o
[21:01] <shadeslayer> \o
[21:02] <ScottK> DarkwingDuck told me he'd be away this afternoon anyway.
[21:02] <shadeslayer> iirc likewise for apachelogger_
[21:02] <ScottK> debfx: Ping
[21:02] <ScottK> Oops
[21:02] <ScottK> Nevermind
[21:03] <JontheEchidna> heh
[21:03] <ScottK> NCommander: kubuntu-dev meeting
[21:03] <valorie> o/
[21:03] <valorie> just a member, looking on
[21:03] <yofel_> great timing *-.-
[21:03] <Quintasan> Yeah, your Quassel Core never ceases to amaze me
[21:03] <Quintasan> Disconnecting at most inappropriate time.
[21:03] <ScottK> How about Riddell?
[21:04] <Quintasan> And we need quorum...
[21:04] <ScottK> Quorum is 3.
[21:04] <Quintasan> Oh wait.
[21:05] <yofel> seems like that's it looking at the people present
[21:05] <ScottK> Yep.
[21:05] <ScottK> "majority of those present and at least 3)"
[21:05] <JontheEchidna> if quorum isn't met by meeting's end we'll do the rest of the vote by ML
[21:06] <ScottK> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/KubuntuDevelopers#Applying_for_kubuntu-dev_membership
[21:06] <shadeslayer> btw i just completed a full upgrade to 4.7 ;)
[21:06] <Quintasan> Wait debfx isn't here?
[21:06] <ScottK> He is.
[21:06] <Quintasan> Oh I see
[21:06] <yofel> he is, so we have 4 (If I'm awake enough to count)
[21:06] <ScottK> We have JontheEchidna, debfx, Quintasan, and me at least.
[21:06] <debfx> i'm here (in tf2)
[21:06] <JontheEchidna> lol
[21:06] <yofel> interesting definition of "here"
[21:07] <Quintasan> :D
[21:07] <yofel> anyway, anything left to do before I start?
[21:07] <ScottK> No.
[21:07] <yofel> OK
[21:07] <Quintasan> Let the grilling commence
[21:07] <yofel> Then here goes...
[21:08] <yofel> As most of you should know, I'm Philip Muskovac, 24 and hereby apply for Kubuntu Dev membership
[21:08] <yofel> My application can be found on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/PhilipMuskovac/KubuntuDevApplication
[21:09] <ScottK> yofel: What's the worst packaging mistake you made that got into the archive?
[21:11] <yofel> can't quite remember any major one, since every work from me has been rechecked, worst would probably be that I forgot to recheck the Python bindings for 4.7 today
[21:11] <yofel> as they are pretty much unusable
[21:11] <ScottK> What happened as a result?
[21:11] <yofel> about 3 bug reports about the issue so far
[21:11] <ScottK> What have you done to fix it?
[21:12] <yofel> I've tested if the old python-kde4 package fixes the issue and decided to downgrade it, the build is still pending
[21:12]  * Quintasan considers asking the default question
[21:13] <ScottK> yofel: Is this in a PPA?
[21:13] <yofel> ScottK: yes, the backports one
[21:13] <Quintasan> yofel: What are symbol files and why do we maintain them?
[21:15] <yofel> symbol files keep track of when in the package history a symbol was added to the library. When a new library is missing a symbol it will be shown and can then be investigated if it's private or not
[21:15] <yofel> if not  it's a BIC and the library needs an SOVERSION bump
[21:16]  * Quintasan thinks of Qt 4.5.1
[21:16] <JontheEchidna> how would you handle such a bump in packaging?
[21:16] <yofel> also, the help dpkg-shlibdeps in deciding what the minimum version of the library is that an application that uses it needs to depend on
[21:16] <ScottK> yofel: What are seeds and what do we use them for?
[21:16] <debfx> yofel: and what happens when the version of the symbols are wrong (e.g. missing epoch or a typo)?
[21:17] <yofel> JontheEchidna: now that we have the DebianABIManager, I would increase the X-Debian-ABI of the library which would manually increase the so version if upstream didn't bump it
[21:17] <yofel> debfx: I fear I didn't look that case up...
[21:18] <yofel> ScottK: seeds decide what ends up on the CD and DVD images which differs a bit from what the meta packages will pull in for the system (like adding filesystem tools or ubiquity to the disk)
[21:19] <ScottK> So if you decide you want to change what's on the CD, how to you go about it?
[21:20] <Quintasan> yofel: How do we handle overwrites and how do we replace packages?
[21:21] <yofel> ScottK: I'm not quite sure actually, as I never touched the seeds yet, I know we have branches in ubuntu-seeds with the image specifications about it, but not quite how to edit them
[21:22] <ScottK> yofel: OK.  We can talk about the mechanics later. 
[21:22] <yofel> Quintasan: when a package replaces files in another package the new package needs to Break/Replace the other package with the appropriate version
[21:22] <ScottK> yofel: Why not Conflicts/Replaces?
[21:23] <yofel> That was used before, the current debian policy requires the use of Breaks/Replaces
[21:23] <ScottK> When can you drop old Breaks or Conflicts/Replaces?
[21:25] <yofel> when every release that needs them has been released, well bad said. The breaks replaces need to be cared about for LTS->LTS upgrades and upgrades between releases.
[21:26] <yofel> or... when there is no supported upgrade way from the old package to the new one
[21:26] <ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
[21:28] <ScottK> When do packages end up in New?
[21:28] <yofel> when that (source or binary) package has no previous version in the archive
[21:28] <debfx> yofel: what do you need to do after you've uploaded a package that contained an SONAME bump?
[21:29] <Quintasan> yofel: What do we do when upstream doesnt ship license copies or ships non-free stuff inside tarball?
[21:29] <shadeslayer> beat them up
[21:29] <shadeslayer> :p
[21:29] <Quintasan> lol
[21:29] <yofel> debfx: investigate if any of the rdepends need to be rebuilt against the new package, mostly to reduce space since both libraries should be installable at the same time
[21:29] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: You are next
[21:30] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: sure, but i don't consider myself ready yet :(
[21:30] <shadeslayer> anyways, it's yofel first
[21:30] <yofel> Quintasan: go talk to them about the licensing and tell them what's missing, we can't upload anything to the archive that doesn't meet the licensing requirements of the policy
[21:32] <Quintasan> yofel: What do you think about recent proposal to move our packaging branches to alioth?
[21:32] <debfx> yofel: how do you ensure that the library packages are coinstallable?
[21:32]  * Quintasan notes that isn't really a dev question but he is interested
[21:33] <yofel> hm... it would make collaboration with the debian-qt-kde team easier, but at least the qt packaging needs to stay since we're not the only ones maintaining that now
[21:34] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: when did that happen? 0.0
[21:34] <ScottK> shadeslayer: It didn't happen.  It's been discussused.
[21:34] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: It didn't, I can't remember who but someone brought this up and I though it's fairly interesting
[21:34] <shadeslayer> ScottK: yeah, but where?
[21:34] <ScottK> Here.
[21:34] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: ofcourse it is, we get to use git! :D
[21:34] <yofel> debfx: the package needs to have the new library so version in the package name so it has a different name, and mustn't have any files that the other package has as well. For the libraries that's not much of a problem since they'll have the so version in the file name
[21:35] <yofel> iirc someone of the debian folks asked why we don't use git and the talk ended up in why we don't move to alioth
[21:35]  * Quintasan likes that idea
[21:35]  * shadeslayer will check logs later then
[21:36] <yofel> shadeslayer: the #debian-qt-kde ones IIRC
[21:37] <Riddell> hi, I guess missed the meeting
[21:37] <Quintasan> Riddell: Hi, we're still grilling yofel
[21:37] <yofel> Riddell: I'm in the middle of being grilled ~.~
[21:37] <debfx> yofel: yep, so data files or plugins need to be in a different package
[21:37]  * Quintasan adds some spices
[21:38] <yofel> debfx: right, libname-data for arch-indep files, and -bin or -plugins for the other binary files
[21:39] <ScottK> Riddell: Do you have any questions?
[21:41] <Riddell> yofel: what attracted you into kubuntu development?
[21:42]  * Quintasan notes this is all-or-nothing type of question
[21:42] <Quintasan> ^_^
[21:43] <yofel> Quintasan: you're not making it easier you know
[21:45] <Riddell> yofel: what is a SRU and what qualifies to have one done?
[21:45] <yofel> Riddell: need to think back again, I've been a linux fan shortly since I started using it and the people here were pretty fun to watch even before I started contributing to kubuntu while I was still more in the ubuntu bugsquad. Since I wanted to learn how to package and wanted to give something back to my favorite desktop environment I decided to take the simple jobs that were suggested and have been enjoying myself a lot since then
[21:46] <Riddell> good answer :)
[21:46] <ScottK> yofel: How does the prospect of effectively having root access to every Kubuntu user's machine feel?
[21:46] <ScottK> (there's an "easy" one)
[21:48] <yofel> Riddell: SRU stands for Stable Release Update, and is the process of getting a bug fixed in an already released release during it's support timeframe. The bugs that qualify for it are serious issues like crashes, they need to have a minimal patch that only fixes that issue or are obviously safe
[21:48] <yofel> (I probably forgot something...)
[21:48] <yofel> ScottK: scary to be fully honest ^^
[21:48] <ScottK> yofel: Good.
[21:48] <ScottK> If it didn't I'd be worried.
[21:48] <Riddell> yofel: are you going to come to UDS?
[21:50] <yofel> Probably not, my educational plans don't have any free time during the UDS times at least for the next year, or at least for the UDS-P one, need to check my free times again once the date for UDS-Q is out
[21:50] <yofel> if anything I'll be at DS now
[21:50] <JontheEchidna> I feel ya. I'm only able to attend the summer UDS's as well
[21:50] <Riddell> yofel gets a +1 from me for good knowledge and a keen contributor
[21:51] <JontheEchidna> +1
[21:51] <ScottK> +1 from me too.
[21:51] <debfx> +1
[21:51] <ScottK> debfx and Quintasan: ?
[21:51] <Quintasan> +1 He's doing magic in Project Neon as well
[21:51] <Quintasan> Python magic at that
[21:52] <ScottK> Is that everyone present?
[21:52] <Quintasan> Looks like it
[21:52] <ScottK> yofel: Congratulations.
[21:52] <ScottK> Riddell: Would you please add him to kubuntu-dev?
[21:52] <yofel> Note: I feel like jelly
[21:53] <shadeslayer> yofel: congrats!!! :D
[21:53] <yofel> THANKS!
[21:53] <Quintasan> yofel: In case you ever wondered what happens when grilling goes the wrong way -> http://i.imgur.com/qfQw1.jpg
[21:53] <micahg> yofel: congrats!
[21:53] <debfx> yofel: congrats! :)
[21:53] <Quintasan> kubotu: order cookies for yofel
[21:53]  * kubotu slides a whole bunch of world's finest cookies down the bar to yofel.
[21:53] <yofel> Quintasan: ROFL
[21:53] <JontheEchidna> yofel: normal, should wear off after a bit :P
[21:53] <shadeslayer> lol
[21:53] <ScottK> yofel: Don't forget: just because you can upload it, doesn't mean you should.  You can(and should) still ask questions.
[21:53] <laksa> yofel: congrats!
[21:53] <Riddell> done, welcome in
[21:53] <Quintasan> yofel: Board the Kubuntu Warship!
[21:53]  * yofel hugs debfx, JontheEchidna, Riddell, ScottK, micahg, laksa, Quintasan, shadeslayer and the rest
[21:53] <shadeslayer> i thought we had a spaceship
[21:54] <yofel> ScottK: sure, ping me when there's something to change in the seeds so I know how to do it
[21:54] <Quintasan> yofel: Embrace the "jelly like feeling" with your whole jelliness
[21:54] <yofel> lol
[21:54] <shadeslayer> yofel: go install tf2 and shoot some people xD
[21:54]  * Quintasan would like to chaging seeds as well
[21:55] <Quintasan> apachelogger_: Can I demand ~omnomnom trigger in kubotu?
[21:55] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: I think warship is cooler since we are pirates working on arrrrrm
[21:55] <Quintasan> and we apparently need rrrrrum
[21:55] <ScottK> You can demand anything Quintasan.
[21:55] <ScottK> Demanding and getting aren't at all the same thing.
[21:55] <Quintasan> ScottK: True.
[21:56] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: true that
[21:56]  * ScottK does mail.
[21:56] <Quintasan> apachelogger_: Can I *get* ~omnomnom trigger?
[21:56] <Quintasan> ScottK: So yeah, when there is something to be done in seeds ping yofel or me
[21:57] <valorie> congratulations, yofel
[21:57] <Quintasan> Oh while we are at it. Do we want telepathy-kde 0.1 in oneiric?
[21:57] <Quintasan> >adridg: update to ! kde 4.7.0 in # kubuntu 11.04 hung at 66% done [80013372]
[21:57] <yofel> Quintasan: people have asked about telepathy (today even)
[21:57] <yofel> valorie: thanks :)
[21:58] <Quintasan> yofel: Really? I'll upload to PPA for now
[21:59] <yofel> Quintasan: you should sometimes read #kubuntu :P
[21:59] <Quintasan> Indeed.
[22:02] <micahg> ScottK: don't you need to copy devel-permissions on that e-mail as well?
[22:02] <ScottK> micahg: I've no idea.  Feel free to forward it.
[22:04] <micahg> interesting, it's part of the desktop team's policy, but not kubuntu's
[22:07] <[ade]> Quintasan: i suppose identi.ca to IRC forwarding works :)
[22:07] <Quintasan> [ade]: :) So what's exactly going on? Is it still 66%? What's the package on which it "hangs"?
[22:08] <yofel> did you have a connection loss? 
[22:09] <[ade]> i upgraded 10.04 to 10.10 and then to 11.04 today, then added ppa:kubuntu-ppa/backports to the repositories, selected all updates, hit apply. it got to installing packages after downloading everything, and now sits there at 66%.
[22:09] <[ade]> details shows me -- right now -- only a single entry for libkprintutils4.
[22:10] <[ade]> earlier there was a long list there w/ some installed, some ready packages.
[22:11] <[ade]> yofel: not that i know of; kpackagekit seemed to download everything just fine.
[22:11] <yofel> :/
[22:11] <yofel> didn't we have some debconf issues before? or was that fixed?
[22:13] <Quintasan> Hmm
[22:13] <yofel> [ade]: if you open a konsole, does 'ps auxw | grep deb' print something? or what does 'ps auxw | grep dpkg' print except the grep line?
[22:13] <Quintasan> 4.7.0 is in backports?
[22:13] <yofel> it is
[22:14] <[ade]> yofel: /usr/bin/dpkg --status-fd 51 --configure <many packages snipped>
[22:14] <yofel> that's about right...
[22:15] <yofel> [ade]: what do you get if you run 'sudo strace -p $(pidof dpkg)' ?
[22:16] <shadeslayer> http://i.imgur.com/0hlie.png \O/
[22:16] <yofel> why do you have a frame in that form o.O?
[22:17] <[ade]> yoful: hunh, outputs 'write(1, "\n", 1' which seems like a perfectly sensible write
[22:17] <[ade]> i'd kill it and try again from a text login, but i'm afraid of leaving the machine in an intermediate state and being unable to log back in
[22:18] <JontheEchidna> you're using kpackagekit you say?
[22:18] <[ade]> jon: yes
[22:18] <yofel> it tries to write to a non-existing terminal and hangs itself up?
[22:18] <yofel> or I'm confused
[22:19] <JontheEchidna> hmm, I'd be interested to know what apt has to say about what it's doing at the moment, but I don't know if kpackagekit displays that
[22:19] <shadeslayer> yofel: its a app to view plasmoids
[22:19] <shadeslayer> just testing out mine right now
[22:19] <JontheEchidna> if it's doing post-install trigger processing, then it should be safe to kill and do a dpkg --configure -a
[22:19] <yofel> shadeslayer: ah, then it looks nice :)
[22:20] <shadeslayer> well, i just need to re parent this mouse area to the right component and then i'll have a highlight like the one device notifier has
[22:20] <JontheEchidna> yofel: in my past experience, scripts that can't access a pty via an fd usually exit with a failure code rather than hanging. That doesn't mean things couldn't have changed, though
[22:21] <JontheEchidna> well, not necessarily a pty, but a file descriptor at any rate
[22:21] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: can you sent an email to quintasan@kubuntu.org?
[22:22] <yofel> would be my guess too usually...
[22:22] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: check yer mail
[22:23] <JontheEchidna> yofel: seems to remind me of this somehow: bug 680328
[22:23] <yofel> heh
[22:23] <JontheEchidna> but in that case the strace was showing an error for the write
[22:24] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: ever used QML?
[22:24] <JontheEchidna> shadeslayer: nope
[22:24] <shadeslayer> bah :(
[22:24] <charlie-tca> Congratulations, yofel 
[22:25] <yofel> thanks charlie-tca :)
[22:26] <JontheEchidna> yofel: cjwatson might know what could be wrong
[22:26] <[ade]> JontheEchidna: killed it, killed kpackagekit, switched to text console. dpkg --configure -a was quick, apt-get update ok, apt-get upgrade fails when upgrading python-kde4 with unable to lock /var/cache/apt/archives
[22:26] <yofel> !aptlock
[22:26] <yofel> hm, wrong lock file, but should work too
[22:27] <yofel> *the same
[22:28] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: lol ... Alioth can be sucky and wemesird someti
[22:28] <shadeslayer> wth
[22:28] <[ade]> yofel: killing zombie dpkg and packagekitd processes does the trick to unlock the dir as well
[22:28] <yofel> ah
[22:28] <shadeslayer> *and weird sometimes
[22:28] <[ade]> anyway, looks to go well now. thanks.
[22:28] <JontheEchidna> yeah, packagekitd is what holds the lock
[22:29]  * yofel only used alioth a few times to report bash completion bugs
[22:29] <yofel> and that was months ago
[22:29] <shadeslayer> i've used alioth once to get a package uploaded
[22:29] <shadeslayer> i bet i have instructions on how to do that stored away on google docs
[22:31]  * yofel tries to figure out what's wrong with digikam and marble
[22:32] <shadeslayer> i think i need to play another 2 hours of tf2 to figure out how to solve this problem
[22:33] <JontheEchidna> lol
[22:33] <shadeslayer> idk why, but after playing 2 hours of tf2 my productivity increased ^^
[22:39] <Daskreech> anyone would have an idea why qdbus would be looking in //bin/dbus-launch instead of /usr/bin/dbus-launch ?
[22:39] <Daskreech> yay
[22:40]  * Daskreech hugs Riddell
[22:41] <Quintasan> :D
[22:41]  * Quintasan throws Konfetti at yofel
[22:41] <yofel> :D
[22:41] <ScottK> yofel: There's still 4.7.0 stuff needs uploading, IIRC.
[22:42] <Quintasan> https://launchpad.net/~telepathy-kde/+archive/ppa/+packages
[22:42] <Quintasan> I see the magic incoming
[22:42] <Quintasan> valorie: Do we have some identi.ca denting force available?
[22:42] <yofel> I know, but I'll probably start with kdevlop stuff, that has been lying around longer and I want to announce that tomorrow (+ it's a point release so should be fairly simple)
[22:43] <valorie> hmmmm
[22:43] <valorie> I will dent, but I don't know about a @kubuntu account
[22:43] <valorie> maybe DarkwingDuck or Riddell has one?
[22:43] <Daskreech> yoful?
[22:43] <yofel> @kubuntu ... what?
[22:43] <valorie> identi.ca/kubuntu
[22:44] <yofel> ah, not sure who owns that one
[22:44] <Quintasan> fair enough, When I'm done I will post Telepathy KDE PPA announcement and I'd like people to redent it
[22:44] <valorie> haz we?
[22:44] <Daskreech> Where does qdbus keep it's knowledge of dbus ?
[22:44] <Quintasan> Daskreech: Maybe it's hardcoded?
[22:44] <Riddell> valorie: you want the kubuntu login?
[22:44] <Daskreech> Quintasan: That's what I would have thought
[22:44] <yofel> Quintasan: then it shouldn't break that badly (and not only for that user, see #kubuntu)
[22:45] <Daskreech> qdbus is erroring out with Could not connect to D-Bus server: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.Spawn.ExecFailed: //bin/dbus-launch terminated abnormally with the following error: Autolaunch error: X11 initialization failed
[22:45] <Daskreech> the //bin/dbus-launch seems suspect 
[22:45] <Daskreech> but I can't imagine sticking $usr as a variable
[22:45] <valorie> eh, that's nice of you to ask
[22:45] <valorie> my denting is so.... episodic
[22:46] <Riddell> or yofel wants the kubuntu identica login?
[22:46] <yofel> I already almost never dent using mine ^^
[22:47] <Quintasan> Do we have someone even remotely responsible for PR?
[22:47] <Daskreech> Do we ever?
[22:48] <yofel> well, me, somewhat, since I'm doing the kubuntu.org stuff
[22:48] <yofel> other than that, apachelogger
[22:51] <JontheEchidna> check out the location I found for my new house in minecraft: http://i.imgur.com/zii9T.jpg
[22:52] <yofel> nice one, esp. with the roof ^^
[22:52] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: >implying you haven't already built Konqui The Dragon
[22:52] <valorie> Riddell: I will try to systemitize my promo activities, and will ask you for the info then
[22:52] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: http://i.imgur.com/qfQw1.jpg <-- that's gonna happen when you don't have one :P
[22:53] <JontheEchidna> ^^
[22:53] <JontheEchidna> that way creepers can't kamikazee me in the mornings
[22:53] <valorie> twitter was really useful at OSCON
[22:53] <Quintasan> valorie: Would be Kool to have official Kubuntu dents
[22:54] <valorie> I need to look at how lydia organizes her stuff - she's very efficient at getting all her stuff updated
[22:55] <yofel> JontheEchidna: they can be failry enthusiastic though http://yofel.dyndns.org/pics/ext/2011-07-11_19.27.48.png
[22:55] <JontheEchidna> hehe
[22:58] <JontheEchidna> chunk error, I can see underground: http://i.imgur.com/0XNwm.png
[22:59] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna ... going where no other kubuntu dev has gone before
[22:59] <shadeslayer> also, its java, thats to be expected :P
[23:05] <yofel> that happened when I was in a really tight space once but got a sapling to grow around me with bonemeal ^^
[23:23] <shadeslayer> i'm off to sleep
[23:23] <shadeslayer> night
[23:23] <shadeslayer> debfx: oh oh, whats your steam id?
[23:23] <JontheEchidna> interesting placement for a lava pool: http://i.imgur.com/drtjK.png
[23:28] <JontheEchidna> pool
[23:29] <JontheEchidna> ba, stupid apostrophe being next to enter
[23:29] <JontheEchidna> pool's a bit crowded: http://i.imgur.com/9Ql74.png
[23:37] <Daskreech> incoming :)
[23:42] <jmichaelx> i am noticing a handful of problems in kde4.7... one problem is that in kickoff, once you switch to the office menu, or system menu, you cannot switch back to go to another
[23:48] <ScottK> Sounds like a bug that should be reported upstream.
[23:48] <JontheEchidna> iirc they removed the back button and have a breadcrumb at the top to use for navigation
[23:48] <jmichaelx> possibly... how can one ever tell whether or not the problem is upstream or in kubuntu packaging
[23:49] <jmichaelx> ok, i was not aware of the breadcrumb
[23:51] <jmichaelx> ok, the "breadcrumb" works, although why in the world that would be thought to be an improvement i don't know
[23:52] <yofel> if you're in the 2nd subfolder you can go directly to the toplevel. That's the only thing I can think of
[23:53] <JontheEchidna> (rebooted for 4.7)
[23:53] <jmichaelx> i will also ask this in here before reporting a bug, but since upgrading to 4.7, XBMC will not start. i just get a black screen. i am using propietary nvidia drivers.... is this likely something that should be reported to kde?
[23:55] <jmichaelx> (i need to view these KDE upgrades with much more trepidation than i have, so often as many things get broken as get fixed)
[23:56] <jmichaelx> oh well, overall things are looking really good, so many thanks to all who worked so hard on this!