/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/29/#ubuntu-arm.txt

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lilsteviepersia: you around?06:13
persialilstevie: Am now.08:36
lilsteviepersia: I am just looking at building kpkgs08:39
lilstevieand building one for the transformer08:39
persiaI usually recommend starting with https://wiki.linaro.org/Resources/HowTo/PackageYourOwnKernel08:43
persiajcrigby has a fairly flexible packaging branch that you can merge to get things working.08:44
lilstevieok08:45
persiaTake care to look through it, and make sure that you've set the flavour correctly in all the places it appears (reading the build log the first couple times should highlight some obvious ones, and running dpkg --info on the result packages will show most other bits that have issues.08:45
lilsteviecool08:46
lilstevie:)08:46
persiajcrigby is usually around on this channel: I'd recommend trying to catch him in your morning though, given timezones.08:49
persiaOr I'm happy to look at things :)08:50
lilstevie:)08:52
lilsteviewell I am just cloning into a seperate folder from my actively used directory so that it doesn't get messed up :)08:52
lilsteviepersia: things are coming together nicely though :)08:53
persiaExcellent!08:59
lilsteviepersia: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1191141 && http://rootzwiki.com/showthread.php?1072-ubuntu-on-the-transformer/ <-- :009:13
lilsteviesame release09:13
lilstevie:p09:13
persiaFirstly, I'll rcommend explicitly listing the license for that code, indicating what folk who get it from you can do with it.09:16
persiaIdeally, you'll pick something that we can put in Ubuntu: I'd really like to be able to generate an image for that fairly easily, so we can maybe include it in the next release.09:17
lilsteviepersia: there is no licence available for nvflash09:18
persiaThere is a license, but it doesn't permit redistribution.09:18
persiaBut you want to express a license for *your* code.09:18
lilsteviein that pack the only code of mine is 1 line in the kernel which changes the behaviour of a button on the keyboard dock09:20
persiaAlso, you reference a PPA: do you especially want a PPA, or should we just put it in Ubuntu proper?09:20
persiaAh, heh, for one line of code, if you don't care, then just file a bug :)09:20
lilstevieheh09:21
lilsteviemost of this took linux nicely just needed tweaks to configs09:21
lilsteviewell putting in ubuntu proper overall would work, just in the mean time for bt and wifi fixes09:22
lilsteviecurrently bluetooth works but I want it to be a package thus using ppa, and wifi, well that is going to be an active piece of development09:22
persiaIf a package can *exist* (even buggy) and be uploaded by 11th August, we can get it included in oneiric, and keep fixing bugs until sometime in September (depending on the bug and the risk of regressions).09:28
persiaWe can then backport that to the 11.04 release, to make sure that users of the current release are also supported.09:28
lilsteviepersia: the bt stuff is a bit sketchy though09:28
persiaThat's OK.  It's not like we're stiving to have transformer support in the default image set for oneiric.09:29
lilsteviecause it also needs the firmware09:29
lilstevieno I mean it works :p09:29
lilstevieit is firmware09:29
lilsteviesame as wifi09:29
lilstevieI'm not 100% sure on the distribution rights09:29
persiaWhat's the license on the firmware?  In general, if you can put it in a PPA, you can probably put it in multiverse (unless you're paying for the PPA)09:29
lilsteviewell I wasn't going to put it on the ppa either09:29
persiaDouble-check.  If we can't redistribute, we can'T do a PPA either, because we don't have teh right to upload to the PPA.09:29
persiaOh, heh :)09:30
lilsteviewhat I have at the moment is extracting from an android system image and injecting09:30
lilsteviepost install09:30
persiaSo, expecting the user to already have the firmware available in their andoid install?09:31
persiaDid you put that in the postinst?09:31
lilstevieno I have been telling people to do it :p09:31
lilsteviebecause if you flash pure linux there is no android install on device09:32
persiaSo, there7s a tool for that :)09:32
persiaRight, so here's a sketch implemetnation09:32
lilstevieheh09:32
persiaAdd debconf support to the package, and ask the user if they have a dual install, and if so, where to find android (medium priority)09:33
persiaSet a default for that question that matches the results of running your installer on an unmodified retail image.09:33
persiaTHen, in the postinst, check to see if the firmware is available already.  If not, check if the user told you there was a dual install, and if so, get the firmware from there.09:34
persiaIf there is no firmware already loaded, and there is no dual-install from which to get the firmware, notify the user (again, via debconf) that you were unable to find the firmware, and point them at instructions for extracting it themselves.09:34
lilstevieheh09:35
lilsteviethat would do it09:35
lilsteviehttp://pastie.org/228888809:35
lilstevie^^ wifi firmware licence09:35
persia2.2 meets the requirements for multiverse.09:36
persiaBasically, that states that we'll only redistribute it unmodified and under the same license terms, and that the redistributor promises to take responsibility if they break this rule.09:37
lilstevieok09:37
lilsteviegood to know09:37
lilstevieI believe the bt firmware would be the same, although I haven't been able to find the licence agreement for that, it is on the same silicon09:38
persiaMind you, I'm not an archive admin, so my opinion isn't authoritative, but that it's a "restriction on distribution" clause, rather than a "no distribution" clause, and seems to say something like "If you redistribute this, be sure the recipient can'T tell the difference between what they get from Broadcom and what they get from you", it seems like it ought be OK.09:39
lilstevieok09:39
persiaUnfortunately, we need to get a license, because the terms of that license require the distribution of the license for any redistribution.09:39
lilstevieyeah09:39
lilsteviecheck-config is failing09:45
lilsteviehttp://pastie.org/228893409:45
persiaI'm not that familiar with check-config: you may need to change some things to be modular, or make sure you hit minimum limits.09:49
lilstevieah ok09:49
persiaAlso, check the n900 or ac100 kernels: maybe there's a workaround in one of those (or some clue that mayhelp)09:49
lilsteviefixed it up :p10:22
persiaCool!10:22
lilsteviereading the instructions helped :p next instructions delt with it10:22
persiaWhat was wrong?10:22
persiaHeh :)10:22
lilsteviewell it is expected10:22
lilsteviethats all :p10:22
lilsteviemade the changes and the only 2 things that had to be commented out were apparmor and ram_size10:23
persiaNot much we can do about ram size, but why doesn't apparmor work?10:25
persiaDid you merge in the ubuntu sauce branch?10:25
lilstevieheh not that it doesnt work I just haven't fixed up that part of the config yet10:26
lilsteviefixed that up now10:27
persiaAh, OK.10:27
lilsteviebuilding now :)10:28
kapinterHi! What kind of toolchain is used to compile ubuntu-arm?10:50
janimoppisati, the new 3.0 panda kernel should have good wireless support?11:11
janimothe one in oneiric11:11
ppisatijanimo: uhm, i guess it11:23
ppisatijanimo: but never really tried it since i don't have antennas for it11:23
janimoppisati, hmm I thought it should work w/o antennas too. I never mounted any antenna on the panda.11:24
janimoanyway will test. I dislike running a long ethernet cable through the room for the panda only11:24
janimoit worked at one point in natty but was flakey. Need to make sure it works without a need for software from PPAs11:25
ppisatijanimo: k, let me know then11:25
hrwjanimo: 3.0 linaro works on panda with wireless11:30
hrwwithout antenna I got 4Mbps from AP under panda11:31
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janimohrw, stock packages from the archives only right?12:07
hrwjanimo: let me check12:28
hrwheh. panda rootfs died12:29
hrwlinux-image-3.0.0-1402-linaro-lt-omap_3.0.0-1402.3~ppa~natty_armel.deb sounds like non ubuntu package12:29
gsedej_workhi! I want to compile ubuntu for Pandaboard, because i need some driver. Panda boots form SD, ubunzu needs 4GB, but I only have 212:43
gsedej_workshould I follow this instructions?12:44
gsedej_workhttp://www.omappedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_kernel_for_OMAP412:44
lilsteviepersia: hit another error I cant figure this one out though :/13:45
zulpandaboard is omap4 right?14:18
GrueMasterzul: correct.14:45
persialilstevie: What error?14:53
lilsteviehttp://pastie.org/229006914:53
lilsteviepersia: I am trying a start again approach14:57
lilstevieseems to be what to do14:58
persialilstevie: Yeah, that's probably how I'd handle the same issue.  No idea why it suddenly stopped working.15:00
lilsteviepersia: well seems to be a common fix to the issue15:00
persia:)15:02
lilstevieissue fixed :)15:17
persia\o/15:17
lilstevienow I just need to modify flash_kernel for my hardware :p15:17
persialinux + flash-kernel + d-i is usually the enablement set15:18
persiawell, if you can use the vendor bootloader.  If you can't, then you need that as well.15:19
lilstevied-i?15:19
lilstevieI am using the vendor bootloader15:19
persiad-i is debian-installer.  Every installer we write is eventually refaactored to be based on d-i, because all the problems are already solved there.15:20
lilstevieah15:20
persia(or well, for the problems not solved there, solving them there ends up solving them for all the different installers)15:21
lilstevieheh15:23
lilsteviewell flash-kernel is somewhat of a tough nut15:23
lilstevieI'm not happy with the hardcoded nature15:24
persiaYeah.  lool keeps talking about redesigning it to be sane, but it's a hard problem.15:24
persiaIdeally, we'd like a generic solution for all fastboot devices, but feel free to hardcode it for now.15:25
persiaI thikn ogra landed hist ac100 stanza in oneiric: if not, you can pull it from his PPA.15:25
lilsteviethe problem is once we solve the issue of uploading to a 0x808 type partition with nvflash without having to set a size tag for it there will only be 3 partitions in 1 configuration vs the 10 in an android dualboot config15:26
persiaRight.15:26
lilstevie0x808 tells nvflash to fill to the end of the partition minus $SIZE fwiw15:27
persiaMy general strategy is to apply a hack that works today (assuming I'm not breaking someone else's stuff), and then fix it once the necessary blockers are out of the way.15:27
lilstevieso setting size large enough means having the img size unallocated at the end of the emmc15:27
lilstevieheh well today hacking it in hardcoded will work15:28
persiaBlocking on the right solution tends to make it hard to get the first draft working.15:28
persiaYep :)15:28
suihkulokkiflash-kernel has ended up bein used in many more kinds of devices not originally planned15:29
suihkulokkior well, it was never planned. it was just a script to get kernels and initramfs to nas device nand flashes15:30
persiasuihkulokki: Indeed.  IT has (sadly) become a generic means of placing kernels, rather than just writing to flash for certain devices.15:30
lilstevieheh15:31
persiaWhat do you think about requesting u-boot-installer and fastboot-installer (to parallel lilo-installer, grub-installer, etc.), at least for those platforms that these support?15:31
lilsteviewell I still need something like it, cause of making the bootimg15:32
persialilstevie: RIght, but for non-ARM, we tend to have bootloader-specific scripts, each of which is fairly generic15:32
lilstevieha15:32
lilstevieah*15:34
lilsteviepersia: http://pastie.org/2290481 <-- kernel packed15:59
charlie-tcaAre we going to have the Xubuntu armel51 images for A3 ?16:02
* charlie-tca won't be disappointed to not have them yet16:02
persialilstevie: Wonderful!!!  Post the .dsc (and all the files referenced in the .dsc) somewhere we-baccessible, and I'll pull, review, and upload as soon as I get a chance.16:04
persiacharlie-tca: THere's some issues related to the mx5 images.  At least the patches I wrote that were supposed to generate them ended up with the screen not working (I've been working on graphics drivers this week).16:05
lilsteviepersia: I am repacking with a things changed16:05
persiacharlie-tca: I have heard of others working on mx5 images, but haven'T seen anyone be successful yet.16:05
lilsteviepersia: do you also want a source package?16:05
charlie-tcaThanks for not forgetting us, persia16:05
persiaSo, I'd say, very unlikely for A316:05
persialilstevie: .dsc+references files == source package (yes)16:06
charlie-tcaNo problem. Just have to check once in while16:06
lilstevieok :)16:06
persiacharlie-tca: Never :)  Although I'm not sure I'll run Xubuntu on my mx5 hardware, the problem in generating the images is the same for all flavours.16:06
lilsteviepersia: launchpad prefered?16:07
lilstevieor anywhere16:07
persialilstevie: I don't really care: I just want them all in the same place, so I can get them in a single virtual directory over http or https16:10
lilstevieso not in a tarball then? :p16:11
persiaIf you especially want: a tarball is harder for me to download.16:12
* persia uses dget to get packages, which auto-unpacks stuff, whereas a tarball has to be downloaded, unpacked, then unpacked agin, etc.16:12
lilstevieits cool,16:13
lilstevieI enabled directory browsing over http16:13
persiaDidn't need that, as long as they were all in teh same directory.16:13
lilstevieheh16:18
lilsteviepersia: uploading now16:35
persiaCool.16:36
persiaNow that you're less distracted, I should probably ask you about the tab kernel.16:37
lilstevieheh I was wondering if you were going to ask about that16:38
lilstevienow that I have the process for generating this down I will get that one set too,16:38
lilsteviewe have the 10.1 working now16:40
lilstevielike same bug with the touchscreen16:40
lilsteviebut :)16:40
persiaThat's OK.  Software always has bugs.  Let's get it in the repo before the deadline, and then, if ywe're lucky, we'll have users, and we can get more input to fix the bugs.16:42
lilstevie:)16:44
fisukhmm.. i'm trying to use gst-launch to play some video, but i'm only able to get non-accelered stuff to show (via fbdevsink)... using v4l2sink shows only black screen16:51
fisukwhat am i missing?16:51
persialilstevie: I'm getting told me move, but please post the URL, and I'll pull it as soon as I'm sitting somewhere again.16:56
lilsteviehttp://lilstevie.geek.nz/kernelsrc16:58
lilstevieupload will finish in about 15 minutes16:58
lilsteviepersia: ok it is up,17:15
mynameisdeletedlive ubuntu arm image I can save to the sdcard of my atrix4g phone?17:51
mynameisdeletedI just wish to run apps... it already has an x-server and linux-arm boot scripts17:51
mynameisdeletedand linux kernel etc17:51
mynameisdeletedubuntu-arm livecd or qemu image?17:56
GrueMastermynameisdeleted: You might have some luck with our new Ubuntu-Core image as a chroot environment.  From it, you can apt-get install all of the ubuntu-Arm packages. http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/18:07
GrueMasterIt is Oneiric based, so there may be some instabilities, but this is one of the use-cases that we designed this image for.18:08
GrueMaster(chroot environment that is).18:08
mynameisdeletedand I use mont --bind to share /tmp and X11 sockets and such with hostos as well as /proc etc18:10
mynameisdeletedand then the chrooted apps dont know the xserver pre-installed is on a different root18:10
mynameisdeleted802.11n built into phone is cool18:12
mynameisdeletedas is dual-core 1ghz arm processor and 1GB ram18:12
mynameisdeletedI dont think most arm netbooks have more than 1 core at 1ghx18:12
mynameisdeletednore do most atom netbooks18:12
GrueMasterNot sure how to resolve dependency issues.  But if you have a big enough SD (2-4G minimum), having duplicate binaries won't be an issue.  It won't try to relaunch an X session.18:13
mynameisdeletedso for ubuntu.... intel atom vs arm risc processor?18:13
mynameisdeletedwhich is better chocie?18:13
steev_depends on what you want to do18:14
mynameisdeletedI guess arm is slower but uses less power?18:14
mynameisdeletednot sure about 1ghz dual-core arm though18:14
steev_an a8 is ~20% slower than an atom18:14
mynameisdeletedvs single-core atom18:14
GrueMasterAgain, it really depends.  Video playback is very comparable.18:14
steev_a8 at 800mhz18:14
steev_single-core atom18:14
steev_running at 1.618:15
mynameisdeletedI have olympus made 2 core arm processor at 1 ghz precisely and 2000 bogomips18:15
mynameisdeletedhwo does 1ghz armv7 core comapre to 1.6 ghz atom core?18:15
suihkulokkibogomips = bogus mips18:16
GrueMastermynameisdeleted: There are a lot of benchmarks that show pluses & minuses for each arch.  If you plan on running games, you may be out of luck.  But for video playback (with accelerated drivers), they are very comparable.  Also web usage and OpenOffice are fairly close.18:17
GrueMasterIt is really hard to compare without a specific task and as close to equivalent hardware configuration.18:18
GrueMasterFor example, Atom with Dual SATA raid will clobber arm with eMMC.18:19
mynameisdeletedopenoffice + web browsing I think18:19
mynameisdeletedwill class10 32GB sdcard with 20MB/s read sustained and 10MB/s write sustained be comperable to sata?18:20
GrueMasterThen you should see similar performance, albeit with longer battery life on arm.18:20
mynameisdeletedhow does class10 flash memory comapre in performance to a traditional drive?18:20
mynameisdeletedif it sustains 20MB/s read and 10MB/s write18:21
GrueMasterIt depends on the SD implementation on your system.  I have seen dismal performance on some high speed SD cards.18:21
mynameisdeletedso it could be good or could be bad18:21
GrueMasterAnd I don't know of any SD that compares to SATA.18:21
mynameisdeletedit will be an experiment18:21
GrueMasterMost are designed for high speed sequential reads/writes.  Linux is more random.18:21
mynameisdeletedmany solid-state drives blow sata out of water18:21
mynameisdeletedahhh18:21
Nekomynameisdeleted, SD card performance for the vast majority of systems will absolutely suck compared to any SATA drive18:22
mynameisdeletedbut there are flash-based filesystems that are more optimized for using sequences when possible18:22
mynameisdeleteda better choice of filesystem might make sd performance more acceptable18:22
GrueMasterThe flash filesystems are still in heavy development, but are greatly improved over traditional (ext3) filesystems.18:23
mynameisdeletedis internal memory likely faster than microsd?18:23
mynameisdeletedon flash a read can be random .. just not a write right?18:24
GrueMasterI have experimented with btrfs & nilfs.  For other reasons, we are not using them in our default SD images, but we are keeping a close watch on their progress.18:24
Nekousually ext4 and btrfs are a lot faster on SD card18:24
mynameisdeletedor boht read and write work better sequentially?18:24
Nekoit's mostly about mballoc and copy on write features, it reduces the load18:24
Nekoext3 on an SD card is abysmal18:24
mynameisdeletedso ext4 is the most stable sd choice that will work well18:24
GrueMasterIf you want a simple test, use bonnie++ to do filesystem benchmarking.18:25
Nekothat's what we ship on the Efika18:25
mynameisdeletedcan that be an ext4 disk image saved ontop a fat file system?18:25
mynameisdeletedor is ti better to partition an sd-card?18:25
Nekoyou want to partition it18:25
Nekoeither use the full card so the filesystem starts at 018:25
Nekoor if you partition it, make the partition starts aligned to 4MB18:25
Nekothat seems to be the best case for performance18:25
mynameisdeletedso when my 32GB class10 card copmes in I'll format/install it from my mac18:26
Neko(otherwise, MBR takes up 512 bytes and the filesystem is kind of 512 to 4 kilobytes out of alignment)18:26
mynameisdeletedand set it up as an ubuntu arm drive18:26
Nekoyou end up doing twice as much work to write a block than you would otherwise if it was aligned18:26
mynameisdeletedI can make the mbr take exactly 4MB though right?18:27
mynameisdeletedand then the ext4 starts in right place18:27
Nekodo something like parted /dev/mmcblk0 -anone and then mkpart primary 4M 100%18:28
mynameisdeletedhow hard is it to make x-sever use built in display in multitouch mode rather than use external hdmi?18:29
mynameisdeletedI guess thats called find an x-server app for andoird18:29
mynameisdeletedalso there problaably is no ubuntu version for mobile phone... only for netbooka nd maybe tablet18:31
mynameisdeletedas long as it uses a keyboard and a real display ubuntu is fine18:31
mynameisdeletedI can run a terminal emulator on the phone for commandline stuff outside that18:31
persialilstevie: Pulling now.  Thanks.18:44
steev_mynameisdeleted: you might want to look into utouch19:00
mynameisdeletedI might do that19:01
janimorsalveti, do you know if the TI firmware package is still used with the omap4 wlan driver that is in the kernel? AIUI the driver from the PPA is no longer needed, but firmware should still be there :)19:43
rsalvetijanimo: firmware should come now from the linux-firmware package20:45
rsalvetiit's all upstream afaik20:45
janimorsalveti, ah you're right. I found the ti-connectivity binaries in a git repo with all firmware, but forgot there's one package for all firmwares now. thanks20:47
GrueMasterjanimo: The wlan firmware has been part of the linux-firmware since Natty.  It is in the desktop images by default, but not in the headless/server images.21:02
janimoGrueMaster, that may explain my wifi woes on my headless panda. But I hope I'll put an end to them now that I know what to look for21:07
GrueMasterYea, I haven't gotten it to work fully on headless in a while, but forgot what I had to install to get it working.  Not really a high priority image test.21:08
janimoof course if instead of firmware not found errors, the panda locks up when ifup wlan0 is called is progess, just not the kind I hoped for21:26
rsalvetijanimo: which kernel, 3?21:51
janimorsalveti, yes. But after a reboot it did not hang anymore21:51
rsalvetihm21:51
janimoso hung twice but now seems ok21:51
GrueMasterI'm running the daily desktop on one system with 3.0 kernel and wifi is fine there.  I'm in the process of reimaging my cluster of 4 server systems, will bang on one as soon as it is up to see what may be missing.21:53
janimocannot ping it again. Will debug in the weekend21:53
GrueMasterOk, that was easy.  sudo apt-get install wireless-tools;sudo iwconfig wlan0 essid grue-net2 ; sudo dhclient wlan021:59
GrueMasterCurrently ping flooding it now.21:59
GrueMasterjanimo: What image were you running?22:02
janimoGrueMaster, an old natty dist-upgraded and full of cruft22:02
janimoon a USB external disk22:02
janimomy ARM build machine22:03
GrueMasterAh.  This is oneiric.  I could try from my SRU tester.  I put Maverick, Natty, and Oneiric on separate partitions of one usb drive for easy SRU testing.22:04
janimoGrueMaster, I wonder why that does not work for me22:04
janimoI am on oneiric as well22:04
janimosimple iwconfig essid never worked for me22:04
GrueMasterplbkac?22:04
janimocould be my router/AP being more demanding22:04
janimono idea, but there is probably some dose of pebkac involved22:05
GrueMasterheh22:05
janimonot literally of course, I stand, do not use a chair22:05
janimobut no problem, imx arrives next week, and instead of two half functional ARM/Oneiric devices (panda, ac100) I'l have 3! joy22:06
GrueMasterPersonally, I can't stand all of this testing I have to do...so I sit.  :P22:06
GrueMasterI haven't even booted mine.  ENOTIME.22:06
GrueMasterAnd lack of an image has made it very low-p.22:06
janimocould be hw issue with my panda(doubt it), more iffy AP (openwrt) or indeed something I overlook. But  I never had good wifi on my panda22:08
GrueMasterYea, I kind of have a bit of overkill here.  Two 802.11N AP's at either end of the house (one 3 feet from my panda stacks), and the entire house wired for gigabit..22:10
GrueMasterAlthough I have just filled my 16 port 1Gb switch in my office.  sigh.22:11

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