[00:01] Unit193: do you want to test it? [00:01] it would be great help [00:02] The point is that I'm not sure if it will even work [00:04] It takes way too many reboots to get this working and when I do, I only reboot for power outages (And now it's on an old UPS) [00:04] oh [00:05] I'll still try if I can get a mostly working Oneiric install [00:31] charlie-tca, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Oneiric/DefaultImageEditor [00:42] GridCube: thank you === ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Want to get involved? See: http://xubuntu.org/contribute | #xubuntu for support, #xubuntu-offtopic for general discussion | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Xubuntu Community meeting 2011-08-08 | Oneiric images at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/ [01:57] Okay, got the meeting minutes out. Good night [08:56] madnick: If you need something to be tested on real hardware, I should get most of my machines up and running this evening (meaning in 6 to 7 hours) [10:26] astraljava: sweet :) would be great [11:32] madnick: Okay, gonna have to push it forward a few hours. I had forgotten jussi wants us to go to a soccer game tonight. But it's only some 3 hours delay, so we'll talk again in... UTC 1800-1900? [11:33] okay :> [11:37] astraljava, lol, you go watching a game with leather ball(s) with jussi? [12:40] http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/lightdm.png [12:41] That sorta keeps the same theme all the way to the desktop :P [12:41] plymouth->lightdm->user session [13:09] knome: Leather balls is what it's all about. Seriously, when you think about it. That's where life begins. :D [13:50] Is it a bug that you must first set properities of the screenshot utility for the panel, then click it? [13:54] !bug help [13:56] micahg, mr_pouit : found a few more mb to save in Xubuntu. We are installing gwibber and gwibber-service by default. This is both images and updates. [13:56] I don't think Im gonna file a bug report, it might be a "feature" :P [14:00] charlie-tca: cannot do much more than this with the current configuration: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/lightdm.png [14:00] madnick: Not following you. Do you mean there's an applet for the screenshot utility, and it sits in the panel? How can you set the properties, if not by clicking on it? [14:00] astraljava: currently, 11.04 [14:01] you can simply click it [14:01] But on Oneiric you need to right click -> properites, set mode [14:01] then click it again, and do the thing you selected by right clicking [14:01] madnick: right, until Ubuntu straightens out the configuration files first, we get blocked [14:01] madnick: Every time?! [14:01] astraljava: yes [14:01] * astraljava faints [14:01] We will want to remove "Guest" before we release [14:01] astraljava: try it out :) [14:02] madnick: Don't have it installed, yet, but will do later in the evening/night. [14:02] charlie-tca: yep, i was just testing how much there could be done :P [14:03] I had that on my machine until they messed with the files [14:03] I like that better then the pink I get now [14:03] :D [14:03] pink hurts peoples eyes :P [14:03] yup [14:03] It was like rule #1 in website [14:04] design* [14:04] astraljava: do you think i should file it as a bug? [14:04] madnick: it does mostly cause I poke the designers eyes out for using pink :D [14:04] Well, I think it is supposed to be purple, but it depends on your monitor and video as to the actual color you see [14:04] davmor2: :D [14:06] madnick: It depends on whether it's against the user experience specs or not (don't really think there are any.) [14:07] madnick: File it away, it'll be marked as a wishlist if it is. [14:07] Well, it breaks current behavior [14:07] Right. [14:08] Okay, I'm off for a couple of hours. I'll ping ya when I get back, so we can talk about what it was I promised to test. :) [14:08] sweet [14:08] have fun! :) [14:10] ill get on making a package for easier testing [14:31] great! I need issues with staying connected today [14:43] dh_make sure is not explianitory :D [14:45] charlie-tca: are you be facetious? [14:45] charlie-tca: that's going away, it's temporary, but bad timing [14:46] about the connection? [14:46] yes [14:46] about gwibber? [14:46] no [14:46] It pulled in today with updates [14:47] and it installed today with a fresh install [14:50] yes, it's now a recommends of indicator-messages [14:50] that will be fixed right after alpha3, but it was bad timing [15:10] I don't know what happened, but Xubuntu images are working and Ubuntu images are broken for now [15:10] Thanks, micahg. I knew you would be on top of ti [15:11] s/ti/it [15:11] charlie-tca: we're ok space wise, is it ok to release w/gwibber in alpha3 and release note it as unintentional? [15:11] yup [15:11] That's not a problem [15:11] It just bothered me that the update on this system pulled it in [15:11] * micahg wonders if kenvandine was trying to get wider testing for gwibber [15:12] * charlie-tca nods [15:12] charlie-tca: well, it's a recommends of indicator-messages which is a depends on indicator-messages-gtk2, which is a recommends of xfce4-indicator-plugin [15:13] but it shouldn't be a recommends, should it? [15:13] indicator-messages does not need gwibber [15:13] even if gwibber needs it [15:14] That's the kind of thing that makes it hard for all of us "official" derivatives [15:15] no, it should've just been seeded [15:15] and it will be after alpha3 (I have no idea why he didn't just seed it properly now) [15:15] oh, right [15:16] I can think of a lot of reasons, all of which I will keep to myself ;) [15:16] same with xdiagnose, it was a recommends, then a depends, then it got seeded [15:16] BTW, do we want that :) [15:16] It does make troubleshooting xorg easier, doesn't it? [15:16] yes [15:17] Otherwise, we have to have users install it, then gather the information and attach it to their bugs [15:17] I forgot why they removed it though [15:17] it messes something up, for some users [15:17] no, it's seeded on the Desktop CD now [15:18] If it doesn't cause problems, yes, we want it [15:18] Makes bug work much easier [15:18] k, well, I can add it after alpha3 and you can tell me if it breaks anything [15:18] okay [15:19] hm, I have it already on this system [15:19] Does that mess with plymouth, by chance? [15:20] I don't think so, but no idea really [15:20] oaky [15:23] nope [15:23] that's not the problem [15:23] I will keep trying [15:29] BTW, mythbuntu has their own greeter [15:32] nice [15:33] Are they using lightdm? [15:33] yep [15:33] madnick: might be worth looking at? [15:34] still in Unapproved [15:34] makes it harder, then [15:34] err, new [15:34] I have my fingers crossed that when they fix Ubuntu images today, they don't mess up ours [15:43] sure, but I thought you wanted to go with the default greeter? [15:46] madnick is working on one for us. I didn't care if we stayed with the default or customize it, myself. If we had a nice customized version, that would be great. [15:46] ah okay :> [15:47] We are going to have a custom plymouth screen that is fantastic! a new greeter would be nice, but is not a necessity [15:51] with lightdm we could really do something unique [15:52] no idea what tho :D [16:01] We have time to think about it [16:02] Maybe take a look at the wallpapers in Settings -> Desktop, and also on the wiki in [16:03] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Natty and the other artwork pages there [16:04] I read a bit online about dm's, and a often requested feature is to use their own background, but that sortra breaks with multiuser systems [16:05] yes, we can work towards that as a long range goal, but for oneiric, it may not happen [16:05] time is growing short now [16:06] hehe, ubuntu is writing their theme in vala [16:07] they only want one or two of them, ever [16:07] that's because the person writing it loves vala [16:08] I can understand that customizability is actually against ubuntu's goals [16:08] especially with their mac complex [16:08] vala is a pretty awesome language for programming [16:09] yes [16:09] not sure how it works for design though [16:09] Yeah, I would rather we don't follow that lead [16:09] they have been stripping customizability and hardcoding things since quite a while [16:10] it's hard to stop once you move in that direction [16:10] Which, in reality, is not a bad thing for beginners in linux [16:10] but, Xfce is about being able to customize, isn't it? [16:10] * micahg thought the was KDE [16:10] private bool background_animate_cb () <- This I dont think we can do without rewriting source, if we would like to add such things [16:10] at some point you realize that your new tablet pc cannot have higher resolution because all your ui would need remaking [16:10] * charlie-tca thinks "modular", for customisation [16:11] even if xfce wanted to go down that path, we can't, because we need to rely on user-provided content and designs [16:12] s/xfce/xubuntu [16:12] sorry [16:12] the punk approach [16:12] I understand, I like the direction we take [16:12] madnick: is that line from the source for lightdm or a config file? [16:13] charlie-tca: well, its not from lightdm, its from a theme, you supply a "binary", the config file however, you cannot do much with [16:13] oh [16:13] we will provide our own config file as well [16:13] This is why I don't do coding today [16:13] Thats what I said about C/GTK last nite [16:14] And you said "don't" :P [16:14] I test, if you give me instructions. It is easier on my poor old brain [16:14] micahg knows more than I do about it. [16:14] micahg: are you working on this? [16:15] what did I say 'don't' to? [16:15] charlie-tca: to modifying lightdm-gtk-greeter.c [16:15] is that the theme or config or ?? [16:16] It is the theme kinda [16:16] If that is the source itself, we should not need to modify it, but if that is the theme, we do. [16:16] I see [16:16] micahg: should we just tell madnick to do what he sees fit now to make it work for Xubuntu? [16:16] I was acctually a bit scared that we were only allowed to modify the config file, because that did not provide much to configure [16:17] charlie-tca: well, anything in the greeter package is available for changing, anything in core lightdm would need approval [16:17] there, madnick ^ ^ ^\ [16:17] awesome [16:18] Is that better? [16:18] yep [16:18] we will also have a custom config file as well for various options that we should override (like no guest session) [16:20] I'll try to produce something "mockup" like, but tomorrow I have to give a short lecture, so I wont be on until later, so maybe tomorrow night i will have something [16:21] Take your time. [16:29] Ubuntus greeter can already hide guest session [16:37] indeed, we're just waiting for a config file we can modify [17:51] mr_pouit appears to have pushed through a couple of changes for us in lightdm, giving us a .conf file and removing guest session. [17:51] Yay! [17:54] madnick: might have to wait until alpha3 releases to see it, but we are gaining [17:56] cool :) [17:56] Is there GTK3? [17:58] for? [17:58] well, yes, GTK3 is out, but Xubuntu will not use it for Oneiric [17:59] okay, so we cannot costumize the current ubuntu theme, we either costumize the the default or make a brand new [17:59] It depends on GTK3 [17:59] Oh, goody [18:00] mr_pouit: are we putting both gtk2 and gtk3 on the cd? [18:01] oh, make us a new one, for Xubuntu [18:01] if mr_pouit puts gtk3 on the images, we can use that, otherwise, can we use gtk2? [18:02] Problem is UI freeze [18:02] Its quite a big task [18:02] + testing [18:02] We will get a ffe for it. [18:02] or, rather, a ui freeze exception if we have to [18:02] acctually, if i work on this constantly, i should be done before that [18:03] I think it will be fine [18:03] UI and Beta freeze are the 25th of august [18:03] oh 25th, not 15th [18:03] sorry i had misread [18:03] then its cool [18:03] right [18:03] extra 10 days now, huh? [18:03] yeah :D [18:33] mr_pouit: do I need to respin the images for lightdm? [18:34] The images from this morning are the alpha3 candidates right now [18:34] micahg: any idea? [18:35] A little help please! [18:35] yeah, I think we do assuming what was uploaded actually works [18:35] How will we know without spinning them? [18:35] I can't mr_pouit to respond at all today [18:36] charlie-tca: upgrade an oneiric desktop? [18:36] got one here to try [18:37] if the guest session is hidden, it should mean it's working [18:37] upgrading now [18:40] 13 new packages, 62 upgrades, lightdm is not one of them [18:40] doesn't look to me like mr_pouit 's changes are in yet [18:41] I can have the images added to the tracker for us [18:41] no, lightdm wasn't uploaded, xubuntu-default-settings was [18:41] should be 11.10.2 [18:41] not in the upgrades [18:42] published 37 minutes ago, so might not have hit the mirrors yet [18:43] Well, crap [18:45] * micahg figures mr_pouit wanted that change in, but wasn't aware of the 12:00 UTC freeze [18:48] well, images will respin tonight [18:48] replacement pidgin in the upgrades [18:49] 2.9.0 was uploaded last week [18:49] I just installed this one two days ago [18:50] image dated 2011-07-29 [18:50] hmm [18:51] it was uploaded that day :) [18:51] That explains it [18:53] o/ [18:53] xubuntu-default-settings 11.10.1 [18:53] nope, you want .2 [18:53] not there yet [18:54] Wish I could see madnick's new plymouth screens, too [18:54] OTOH, I can't see the old ones, either [18:56] madnick: I'm in, again. Just a heads-up. Will still fiddle with these machines for a bit, but just fire away if you got something. :) [18:57] astraljava: sweet [18:57] well, the themes are at [18:58] http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu <- however, its a "bit" outdated, but not in terms of what it shall do, just graphics + minor changes [19:07] madnick: Okay, so is that .tar.gz the one I need to fetch? And if yes, then where shall I unpack it? [19:09] astraljava: okay [19:09] Like this: [19:09] Its the tar file, put it in /lib/plymouth/themes/{here} then run: [19:11] sudo update-alternatives --install /lib/plymouth/themes/default.plymouth default.plymouth /lib/plymouth/themes/xubuntu-plymouth/xubuntu-plymouth.plymouth 100 [19:11] then run sudo update-alternatives --config default.plymouth .. then run sudo update-initramfs -u [19:13] Yeap, that should be right (double checked) [19:16] astraljava: i need to reboot, i be back in 30 seconds [19:16] Cool, thanks! I'll report back when I get to that stage. [19:18] astraljava: awesome, thanks for doing this :) [19:18] madnick: you changed the names? [19:19] charlie-tca: yep, i put xubuntu in the name so people shall know what it is [19:19] Is that why I can't make it work? [19:19] charlie-tca: if you had the old files, it should work anyways [19:19] If you mixed the new with the old, then it will not work [19:20] I had a folder named madnick instead of xubuntu-plymouth [19:20] okay, but you were using madnick.tar.gz right? then that should not be a conflic [19:20] conflict* [19:21] charlie-tca: i uploaded this last night, if you have not downloaded since last night, you are not effected [19:21] that doesn't work with the update commands [19:22] charlie-tca: if you installed the "Manual" way, and have not restored previous files, it will not work to use the update command [19:22] Oh, I see [19:23] i need more screens :P Im testing the changes i made to the DM on a netbook :( [19:24] charlie-tca: hm, could you found out what version of the greeter we are using on the images? [19:24] I have no idea how to do that [19:24] (the ones with the config file) [19:25] How do I make it go to auto mode? [19:26] charlie-tca: you set a higher precedence [19:26] than 100 [19:26] or lower, i dont remmeber [19:26] Let me check [19:26] yeah lower, try 50 [19:27] I will try it [19:27] Um, until they quit making changes, I don't what version it will end up as [19:28] well, at least we don't hang anymore if no session is entered. It just loops back to the login screen now [19:29] okay, well, i guess i could use the default greeter and build on that, shouldnt be too many changes [19:30] knome: do you have any ideas for a DM theme? [19:33] Wonder if we should perhaps use an Xfce in the background ? [19:33] the mouse? [19:34] no, the letters "Xfce" [19:34] ah [19:35] If you look in Sessions and Startup, there are 4 display manager screens listed that worked with GDM [19:35] Not sure they are still valid for us, but they give you an idea, anyway. [19:35] You can preview them, maybe [19:36] yep [19:37] Should be keep the position of the login in the middle? or something closer to this: [19:37] http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-o1flLfTEanU/Th3TpoGpcBI/AAAAAAAABFg/oRyhXzQ22RU/s1600/unity+greeter+1.png [19:38] we can also animate stuff [19:38] perhaps a detail of a background, like a bird in the current background for example [19:39] We could put the mouse logo on the right? [19:39] Yes [19:39] That ties it to us and Xfce at the same time [19:39] I like the offset [19:39] but I am not a good art critic, either. [19:40] I don't know what the reason for centering is. It used to be offset, centered towards the screen bottom [19:41] Now, they always put it centered on the screen [19:42] I can try some stuff out and get some comments [19:42] ill look into a xfce logo [19:43] Aaaahhhahahaha!!! I accidentally attempted to install Fluxbuntu. You know, the sole release from 2007. *sigh* [19:43] :D [19:44] madnick: could always grab the logo from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork and blow it up [19:44] Damnit, so glad GNOME2 is going away. I _really really_ loathe it when newly-opened dialogs don't have focus in the only field that can receive input. [19:45] charlie-tca: oh you meant like that, i thought you wanted a pure XFCE logo :P [19:51] Depends on what looks best [19:57] * astraljava bursts out in tears [19:57] All my .isos are x86_64, and the test hardware is a 32-bit system. :( [19:58] madnick: Busy? Can we do this tomorrow? I really can't waste 700MB of my 3GB montly quota... [19:58] monthly* [19:59] ouch [19:59] Want me to mail one? [19:59] Well, maybe not. I have an older one on the desktop machine. It shouldn't have changed that much, so that a zsync would eat too much of that quota. [20:00] could be as much as 50%, though [20:01] Yeah, well, I won't be making the decision on the landline in a week or so anyway, so I'm looking at buying 1GB additional packages anyway. [20:01] But 700MB would eat one package almost totally, so... [20:04] :) [20:04] No rush [20:08] charlie-tca: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/draft1.png something like that? (ofcourse, not at ALL like that, but that placement of stuff?) [20:15] something like that, yeah. [20:15] although the xubuntu bothers my eyes, for some reason [20:15] its "glowing2 [20:15] What if it was above the login prompt? [20:15] or maybe it is too bright? [20:16] yeah, we need the artists on this :P [20:16] I agree [20:21] charlie-tca: Target was 44.3% complete... :-/ Oh well, 1GB is only 1.90 € [20:22] It's still 40+ % better than downloading the whole thing. [20:22] * astraljava laughs at the censored version of Children of Bodom's In Your Face. [20:31] madnick, DM? [20:32] knome: display manager :) lightdm theme [20:32] hmm, do you have a shot of what we have currently? [20:33] knome: i can fix that :) [20:33] sure, but can i see what we have now? :) [20:34] yes i meant i can fix an iamge of that :D [20:34] aha [20:34] right [20:34] good ;) [20:34] thanks, that would be nice [20:34] i think i'm having a not-working login [20:34] that's why i'm asking [20:34] not-working as in not looking as should [20:36] ok [20:37] here: [20:37] http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/current.png [20:37] thats the current [20:37] ouch [20:37] :D [20:37] acctually thats a bit costumized by me [20:37] are we sticking with the list-style? [20:37] to use the droid font [20:37] http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/lightdm.png [20:37] thats what it looks like now [20:37] mmh [20:38] What we have is a plain background with a login in the center [20:38] I changed to droids + background [20:38] yeah [20:38] madnick, what about the list? [20:38] madnick, sticking with that? [20:38] i dont know [20:38] madnick, what do you think? [20:38] i personally might even prefer the textfield more, but for most users, i think the list is optimal [20:38] I think we should do a good version of this: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/draft1.png [20:39] hmm [20:39] Like the logo [20:39] And to the left [20:39] i'm wondering if it looks awkward to first have the plymouth theme aligned to centre, then changing it to this [20:39] oh [20:39] didnt think of that [20:39] that's not really consistent :) [20:39] yeah [20:40] so if we don't want to do something completely different, let's just center-align the stuff [20:41] okay [20:41] hm [20:42] if you have a nice idea, i could just implement whats needed to make that possible [20:42] I cannot do graphics [20:42] I dont think that the current box looks nice [20:43] and the computer screen [20:43] it looks a bit "off" [20:43] Maybe we could use the mouse? :) [20:43] why don't we just remove that [20:43] why don't just use the logo as in the plymouth theme [20:43] :) [20:43] yep! [20:44] do you think that its too bright? [20:44] the logotype* [20:46] what we have in plymouth, no [20:46] that's how i originally designed it [20:46] :> [20:49] So basically, hide users, use the xubuntu logo instead of computer, and keep it in the middle? [20:50] not animate anything? [20:50] i don't know about list/textbox [20:50] I had a (maybe dumb) idea, that if we used the foresty image, we could animate a bird, rotation is not a problem programmatically [20:50] knome: okay [20:51] maybe use the list [20:51] for the password input screen, use the same style as in plymouth pw-input, but naturally lose the progress bar [20:51] about the list itself, i'm not sure what would look best yet [20:51] i'll have to look at that later today or tomorrow [20:52] pleia2? [20:52] okay [20:52] sounds good [20:56] charlie-tca: BTW, aisleriot will be broke in alpha3 [20:59] yup, I figured that, since it is still broken [21:55] charlie-tca: gilir filed a bug for the gwibber issue if you want to track it, bug 819519 [21:55] Launchpad bug 819519 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Gwibber installed on Xubuntu/Lubuntu ISO (indicator-messages recommends)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/819519 [22:03] Uhhh... now I understand the pink creepiness you guys were talking about. [22:03] pretty, huh? [22:03] :D [22:03] Thanks, micahg [22:04] I'm guessing they fixed the wiki again. It is very slow again [22:05]