[01:48] <Martyn> Hey ...
[01:48] <Martyn> Penny came out of surgery today, in good shape
[01:49] <Martyn> the docs had to clear 10 times as much tissue from her spinal cord as they expected to find, but it went okay.  She's asleep now, and scheduled for her second bout of surgeries tomorrow.
[03:41] <nigelb> Martyn: Thank you!
[03:42] <Martyn> you're welcome
[03:42] <Martyn> I'll keep passing along info as I need it
[03:42] <Martyn> her second bout of surgery will be to fuse C1/C2 to her skull to stabilize her neck
[06:20] <jussi> jono: ping!
[06:21] <jono> howdy jussi
[06:22] <jussi> heya jono. PM :)
[06:28] <jono> :-)
[07:25] <dpm> good morning all
[07:36] <kim0> good morning everyone
[07:40] <nigelb> morning
[07:42] <dpm> morning kim0
[07:42] <dpm> and nigelb
[07:43] <dpm> and everyone else
[07:43] <dpm> maco, are you around?
[07:43] <huats> morning everyone
[07:44] <nigelb> dpm: I'm fairly sure she's asleep
[08:14] <kim0> dpm: nigelb huats Howdy all o/
[08:14] <huats> hello kim0!
[08:15] <kim0> hey there
[08:15]  * kim0 reboots again
[09:17] <dpm> good morning AlanBell, popey. are you around?
[09:17] <AlanBell> o/
[09:18] <dpm> hey :)
[09:19] <dpm> AlanBell, did you have a chance to look at the e-mail I sent re: people around London wanting to do some user testing for developer.ubuntu.com? Do you know anyone who'd be interested in that?
[09:19] <popey> ah, yes, sorry
[09:20] <popey> is there any reason you've not blogged this?
[09:20] <popey> or made a public announcement some other way?
[09:22] <dpm> popey, no, it's nothing confidential, I simply thought I'd get in touch with you guys first in case you know someone, and I can perhaps blog about it later if the design team are happy about it
[09:22] <AlanBell> I was trying to think of someone, nothing sprung to mind
[09:22] <AlanBell> dpm: come to oggcamp and do a talk about devloper.ubuntu.com and how you need feedback from app developers
[09:27] <dpm> AlanBell, unfortunately, oggcamp is 2 days after the dates we set for user testing :)
[09:28] <AlanBell> so it is
[09:29] <AlanBell> maybe send the mail to ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
[09:38] <popey> yeah, i was thinking that too
[09:47] <dpm> AlanBell, popey. Ok, will do that then. Thanks!
[09:48] <popey> then we can both link to it in social stuff ☺
[09:50] <AlanBell> +1
[09:54] <dpm> AlanBell, popey, done
[09:55] <popey> tweeted
[09:55] <dpm> excellent, thanks ;)
[11:43] <AlanBell> why has https://launchpad.net/~package-import been made an Ubuntu Member??
[11:44] <nigelb> AlanBell: may be its an indrect membership
[11:45] <nigelb> AlanBell: yeah, its given core-dev rights which filtered down.
[11:45] <AlanBell> yeah, it is indirect, probably through multiple routes
[11:47] <nigelb> AlanBell: package importer was using james_w's name. This is part of the move to make that a robot instead.
[11:47] <AlanBell> bother
[11:47] <AlanBell> so is it male or female?
[11:47] <nigelb> I'll just reduce the total by 1
[13:56] <maco> dpm: im around now
[13:58] <dpm> hi maco, I read jono's e-mail and wasn't sure what you needed. Just the list of e-mails from the uw team in LP?
[13:59] <maco> dpm: either a list of the emails or a condorcet poll. but it was supposed to be done a few weeks ago :-/
[13:59] <maco> (because the people eligible to vote isnt supposed to be "members of the team on the day of the election" --its supposed to be a few weeks earlier, so no ballot stuffing goes on)
[14:00] <dpm> maco, I can give you a list of the e-mails, but can you be more specific on what you need for a condorcet poll?
[14:01] <maco> dpm: if you give me the email list then i guess i can figure out how to setup the poll. if you want to do the poll, it's to elect the next group of 3 leaders for Ubuntu Women, and the 4 nominees were in the emails jono forwarded
[14:02]  * maco looks up election day
[14:02] <dpm> maco, I've never set up a poll before, so I'm just trying to figure out in terms of infrastructure.
[14:03] <dpm> what you need
[14:03] <maco> just the list of email addresses, now that i think about it. because the poll's not supposed to be up til the 9th, but the email addresses are supposed to cut off in advance of that date
[14:04] <maco> hmm
[14:04] <maco> akgraner: can i tell dpm to send the email addresses to YOU instead? i'm going to be in the 16th century on the 9th
[14:05] <dpm> maco, ok, sounds good, give me a few mins and I can give you the addresses. There is a caveat, though: we won't get the e-mails from people with hidden e-mail in LP
[14:05] <maco> that was the point of asking a canonical employee, though
[14:06] <maco> last time amber used up her daily allowance of "contact this member" clicks every day for a week and a bit to send voting links to hidden email people, and jono said this time he could help us avoid that by getting the list of addresses, since he's a canonical person
[14:08] <dpm> maco, as a canonical employee I don't have access to people's addresses in LP, the only thing I would do is to use the LP api to get the list. If everyone is happy with it, what I could do is to ask a Launchpad admin to provide a list of the addresses, including hidden ones
[14:09] <maco> yeah, sounds like that's what we need. don't want people to be excluded from voting because they like privacy
[14:10] <dpm> maco, actually, I've just produced the list, and it seems everyone has visible e-mail address (or that my recent addition to the registry team in LP gave me access to them). I'll send you that
[14:11] <maco> thanks!
[14:12] <nigelb> ha, didn't know dpm was all-powerful on LP :P
[14:15] <topyli> ph33r
[14:15] <dpm> :P
[14:18] <dpm> maco, sent
[14:24] <maco> dpm: thanks
[15:07] <jono> dpm sorry, I have this Ensemble call
[15:07] <jono> dpm we need to reschedule our 1:1 calls
[15:08] <dpm> jono, no worries, let's reschedule this one and then talk about the next ones. Would you have time tomorrow after the team call?
[15:09] <jono> dpm I have time in 50m if that works
[15:09] <dpm> jono, yeah, let's do that, sounds good to me
[15:10] <jono> thanks dpm for your patience
[15:10] <duanedesign> jono: their was a server side issue that resulted in some users not being able to authenticate Ubuntu One. Should now be fixed. If not let me know
[15:10] <jono> I hate my calendar
[15:11]  * dpm hugs jono
[15:17]  * jono hugs dpm
[15:20] <czajkowski> jono: no you just hate the items in there that aren't marked holidays :)
[15:21] <jono> czajkowski, indeed
[15:21] <jono> there arn't many items marked HOLIDAYS :-/
[15:21] <czajkowski> jono: we missed our LD chin wag last week I assume back to normal next week
[15:21] <paultag> jeez what happened to LC chit-chat
[15:21] <jono> czajkowski, yup, apologies, I was on the road at OSCON
[15:21] <paultag> :)
[15:22] <czajkowski> paultag: we got merged into LD :)
[15:22] <paultag> that'll be the day :)
[15:22] <czajkowski> paultag: some days I do wonder tbh :s
[15:22] <czajkowski> right off to shops to buy food to cook dinner
[15:22] <czajkowski> toodles
[15:22] <paultag> cheerio
[15:25] <jcastro> jono: I found a pic of your calendar in my old photos when I was organizing them
[15:25] <jono> jcastro, oh?
[15:25] <jono> jcastro, how did it look?
[15:26] <jcastro> yeah, let's just say you have more colors than most rainbows
[15:26] <jcastro> it was pretty epic, which is probably why I took the picture
[15:26] <jono> lol
[15:27] <jcastro> https://picasaweb.google.com/jorge.castro/DropBox#5593999884265086690
[15:27] <jcastro> hah!
[15:29] <nigelb> zomg.
[15:29] <jcastro> iirc someone at UDS was asking how available you are and you just put this up and then we all laughed
[15:30] <jcastro> hah, in hindsight you can post a pic like that and add the title "Gee, do you think Burnout might happen here?" and then wham, awesome slide.
[15:44] <akgraner> informit just published my article on Ubuntu Community: LoCo Communities Explained - thought I'd share it with the channel  - http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1739163
[15:46] <jono> dpm call wrapped early, ready now?
[15:47] <jono> jcastro, lol
[15:47] <dpm> jono, sure, hangout?
[15:47] <jono> akgraner, nice!
[15:47] <jono> dpm yep,
[15:47] <akgraner> jono, thanks
[15:47] <jcastro> that informit page doesn't work for me
[15:48] <akgraner> hmmm
[15:48] <jono> dpm invite sent
[15:50] <akgraner> jcastro hmmm... dunno why...
[15:50] <akgraner> it didn't work for me until about an hour ago...
[15:52] <jcastro> loco article hosted on asp.net
[15:52] <jcastro> god was watching
[15:54] <akgraner> hehe
[15:55] <akgraner> I just write the articles I don't control where the publishers host them at...
[15:57] <jcastro> http://i.imgur.com/t0wOI.png
[17:30] <maco> jcastro: ping
[17:31] <jcastro> yo
[17:32] <maco> jcastro: do you know Matthias's SCAdian name?
[17:37] <jcastro> no clue
[17:39] <maco> ok
[17:39] <maco> i'm leaving for Pennsic on saturday, but he's already there, so i cant find out his name to find him
[18:05] <jcastro> oh hey cool
[18:05] <maco> jcastro: thats why i keep saying im going to be in the 16th c. next week ;)
[18:05] <jcastro> any jousting?
[18:06] <maco> i dont know. ive never been there yet
[18:06] <maco> id like to learn archery so i can take part in a woods battle
[18:07] <maco> but with this being the year i buy oodles of fabric to make garb, budgeting for a bow wasnt in the cards
[18:07] <maco> jcastro: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/282595_1890677666781_1236666104_31557808_7517636_n.jpg dress!
[18:07] <maco> i made it on saturday. it took about 6 hours. including "squeeee! im making my first dress! and its working!"
[18:08] <pleia2> nice :)
[18:08] <czajkowski> reminds me of my pinaform I used to wear in primary school in wine
[18:08] <maco> will see if i can pull off another in 4 hours tonight?
[18:08] <maco> its off of this lady's pattern http://festiveattyre.com/gallery/florentine/earlyflor.html
[18:08] <czajkowski> from grade1 to prep 6 pinaform, until we had our confirmation, then we could wear a long skirt
[18:09] <maco> i dug into joann's remnants pile yesterday to get fabric for sleeves
[18:10] <maco> got a red diamondy one with little gold patterns at the corners of the diamonds and a brown one with a print that makes it look like a brocade
[18:11] <maco> czajkowski: at uds barcelona i told james_w why i did a double-take when he went to get a jumper.  in the US we say jumper when you'd say pinafore :P
[18:14] <czajkowski> heh
[19:54] <martyn> Hey all ..
[19:54] <martyn> Penelope (Penny) is out of surgery today
[19:54] <paultag> martyn: How's she doing?
[19:54] <martyn> the surgery went well, she's recovering in her room (parents are there)
[19:54] <paultag> awesome. I'm glad it went well
[19:54] <paultag> I was worried :)
[19:54] <martyn> If you would like her number to talk to her, PM me and I'll give it to you
[19:54] <martyn> she would love to hear from people
[19:55] <martyn> She will be in the Hospital until Friday afternoon
[19:55] <martyn> She is in "Doctors Community Hospital" in Lanham Maryland
[19:55] <martyn> Room 246a
[19:55] <paultag> martyn: :)
[19:55] <paultag> martyn: thank you for the update, that rocks :)
[19:56] <martyn> They fused c1-c2 to her skull, using a piece of her rib.  This will keep her safe from hurting her newly-repaired spinal cord./
[19:57] <paultag> wow, that's a lot more risky then I thought it would have been
[19:57] <martyn> But it also means she will have less side-to-side motion in her head movement.
[19:57] <martyn> Yep,
[19:58] <AlanBell> o/ martyn
[19:58] <AlanBell> I think I will try and call her tomorrow
[20:04] <martyn> okay, heading out...
[20:04] <martyn> she posted info on her facebook page as well
[20:15]  * nigelb contemplates calling
[20:15] <nigelb> ah, tomorrow
[20:29] <jcastro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Rl7wTlUqkY
[20:34] <czajkowski> jcastro: can you have a look at pm please
[21:01] <maco> i should visit her after work tomorrow
[21:02] <maco> oh, just south of greenbelt! thats really close
[21:03] <czajkowski> mother of god I have a headache from that meeting tonight
[21:03] <pleia2> anyone else about for CC meeting?
[21:03] <pleia2> we don't have anything on the agenda
[21:07] <paultag> pleia2: we love you?
[21:08] <paultag> pleia2: pass that along if you don't mind :)
[21:18] <pleia2> paultag: apparently we decided to argue about membership qualifications with only one CC member around instead :)
[21:19] <paultag> pleia2: hahaha
[21:19] <paultag> FAIL!
[21:19] <pleia2> feeling more than a little blindsided
[21:19]  * czajkowski hugs pleia2 
[21:19]  * pleia2 hugs
[21:20] <czajkowski> pleia2: swap for being in a meeting and getting shite from some folks over comments
[21:20] <czajkowski> *mutters*
[21:20] <czajkowski> am really getting sick of shit over membership
[21:20] <czajkowski> mother of dear lord you'd swear you were winning a car with all the fuss people create
[21:20] <pleia2> yeah, I'm not impressed with how canonical employees keep attacking the membership boards
[21:21] <paultag> for sure
[21:21] <czajkowski> pleia2: +1
[21:21] <czajkowski> I totally feel attacked tonight tbh
[21:21] <czajkowski> :/
[21:21] <czajkowski> only waiting for the tweets to start over staff not getting membership now
[21:21] <pleia2> if policies need to be more strict, then we should go that route, not being ganged up on in -meeting (or twitter)
[21:22] <czajkowski> pleia2: you could just op up in channel and mute it
[21:22] <czajkowski> and point out you're the only CC person around....
[21:22] <czajkowski> and tell them to add it to the agenda
[21:24] <AlanBell> 23
[21:25] <paultag> pleia2: :(
[21:25]  * paultag hugs pleia2 
[21:26]  * czajkowski wishes she was 23 all over again 
[21:26] <AlanBell> but you don't look a day over 21
[21:27] <czajkowski> I wish!
[21:27] <czajkowski> 31.5 :o
[21:28] <jcastro> pleia2: I didn't mean to gang up on anyone
[21:28] <jcastro> it's just frustrating when you get told one thing and the actual policy is something else
[21:29] <czajkowski> jcastro: that's fine and all, but what's happening is people are doing it to us in the middle of meetings
[21:29] <czajkowski> which isn't helpful
[21:29] <pleia2> yeah I understand, I think this means that the policy needs to get sorted and properly explained to everyone
[21:30] <jcastro> well, I tried to find out on -devel
[21:30] <pleia2> this isn't the first time a canonical employee has gotten annoyed at a membership board, and it's really killing the morale of the boads
[21:30] <jcastro> but that turned into mush
[21:30] <paultag> pleia2: man, we have to put up with a lot
[21:30] <jcastro> I'm not talking about an employee, I'm talking about a community member!
[21:30] <pleia2> yeah, probably should have included the CC on the devel thread
[21:30] <paultag> not just RMBs
[21:30] <paultag> but all delegation boards
[21:30] <paultag> people love making our lives hard
[21:31] <czajkowski> jcastro: that thread on -devel turned into waffles
[21:31] <jcastro> paultag: that's made up
[21:32] <czajkowski> jcastro: tonights issue is over a canonical employee and a unity person
[21:32] <jcastro> I don't try to make people's life harder
[21:32] <paultag> unity is upstream, it's not hard
[21:32] <pleia2> the launchpad and unity examples truly are difficult to reconcile
[21:32] <czajkowski> so we have a lp employee who feels he is part of Ubuntu
[21:32] <paultag> just because someone does unity work does not mean they do Ubuntu work inherently
[21:32] <pleia2> I see them as upstream too, but I do see the other isde
[21:32] <pleia2> side
[21:33] <jcastro> paultag: right, other than you know, the default desktop
[21:33] <pleia2> anyway, my lunch break is over, back to work
[21:33] <czajkowski> pleia2: the guy didnt even get LP testimonals
[21:33] <paultag> pleia2: yeah, but then they have to work in the mindset that no one else could use it
[21:33] <paultag> jcastro: so?
[21:33] <jcastro> what do you mean so?
[21:33] <jcastro> fixing unity is a ubuntu contribution
[21:33] <paultag> jcastro: someone doing work on GNOME two years ago for Red Hat does not get them Ubuntu membership
[21:33] <jcastro> uh, no.
[21:33] <paultag> jcastro: even though they were fixing stuff in Ubuntu
[21:33] <jcastro> gnome is a separate project
[21:33] <jcastro> unity is ... unity.UBUNTU.com.
[21:34] <paultag> jcastro: so you don't see it as upstream
[21:34] <jcastro> sure, it is
[21:34] <paultag> you can't have it both ways
[21:34] <jcastro> but it's also part of ubuntu
[21:34] <jcastro> sure you can
[21:34] <paultag> GNOME was part of Ubuntu
[21:34] <paultag> and our default
[21:34] <paultag> but it's an upstream project
[21:34] <paultag> as is Unity
[21:34]  * AlanBell thinks both candidates could have sold themselves better and got through tonight
[21:35] <czajkowski> had their wiki pages being more detailed very possibly
[21:35] <jcastro> so by that definition I would never be contributing to ubuntu
[21:35] <jcastro> as I do unity and ensemble
[21:35] <jcastro> which are "upstream" projects, that don't count as working on ubuntu
[21:35] <jcastro> that sounds a little pedantic to me
[21:35] <paultag> jcastro: but where do you draw the line?
[21:35] <AlanBell> jcastro: you have a significant and sustained impact on the Ubuntu community
[21:36] <jcastro> GNOME, the kernel, X, etc. are separate projects, they have their own identities
[21:36] <paultag> AlanBell: exactly
[21:36] <paultag> jcastro: sure, but who's to say I was not fixing Ubuntu bugs
[21:36] <paultag> jcastro: but never actually contributed in Ubuntu anything else
[21:36] <paultag> I don't think that's enough
[21:36] <paultag> otherwise all software included in Ubuntu would grant membership
[21:37] <czajkowski> jcastro: you work with the Ubuntu community so eh that counts
[21:37] <czajkowski> that;s what we look for
[21:37] <paultag> if there's a unity dev that just does unity, that's not enough
[21:37] <jcastro> nope, not really.
[21:37] <AlanBell> you can get membership with zero software contributions
[21:37] <paultag> if they interact with Ubuntu and work with the community, it's a different story
[21:37] <paultag> AlanBell: I know, I'm using an example
[21:37] <jcastro> paultag: uh, they do, every single day
[21:37] <czajkowski> jcastro: but really this nit picking on decsions is gonna end up in board members dropping out, and like we have in some cases not able to fill board seats if our votes keep getting pulled apart like this
[21:37] <czajkowski> trust me it's having a massive negative impact on boards
[21:37] <czajkowski> pleia2: am I wrong?
[21:38] <jcastro> well how do you think andy80 feels!
[21:38] <AlanBell> jcastro: they do indeed, but they have not convinced the board that they do
[21:38] <pleia2> it is, we need to get a formal decision on expectations
[21:38] <czajkowski> jcastro: he got 3 votes, out of a possible 5 tonight
[21:38] <czajkowski> it's not my fault we cannot get all 7 members to turn up
[21:38] <czajkowski> had we had 7 he may have gotten another vote
[21:38] <jcastro> I'm not saying it's your fault
[21:38] <czajkowski> yes you are
[21:38] <czajkowski> :(
[21:39] <jcastro> I''m just saying that what we have now is not ideal
[21:39] <czajkowski> I cant force members to show up, we had an apology from popey and no idea where ogra is
[21:39] <jcastro> I mean, look at this guy: https://twitter.com/#!/andreagrandi/status/98499748616609793
[21:39] <jcastro> he's been busting his ass for 1.5 cycles on this stuff
[21:39] <jcastro> and a few people don't show up and it's basically horrible
[21:40] <AlanBell> why wasn't that one taken to the mailing list?
[21:40] <czajkowski> jcastro: and you think people bitching on twitter is the way to get people on your side ?
[21:40] <czajkowski> AlanBell: because we have quorm for the meeting
[21:40] <pleia2> jcastro: I think this is just the wrong way to go about it, the boards have been dealing with this casual criticism for months, it heeds to be dealt with formally
[21:40] <pleia2> s/heeds/needs
[21:40] <czajkowski> should we take every vote to the list
[21:40] <jcastro> no, I am just saying, that person's not having a very good interaction with the process
[21:40] <AlanBell> czajkowski: ok, thanks
[21:40] <jcastro> now of course, I've been encouraging unity contributors to apply for membership
[21:41] <jcastro> because I was under the impression that contributing to unity is contributing to unity.
[21:41] <jcastro> sorry, I mean contributing to unity is contributing to ubuntu
[21:42] <jcastro> I don't mean to upset anyone
[21:42] <jcastro> I'm just trying to do the best we can with the cards we've been dealt
[21:45] <popey> Evening.
[21:50] <popey> Golly.
[21:52] <czajkowski> popey: that's one word
[21:58]  * popey has read -meeting and this place
[21:58] <popey> Sorry I wasn't around for todays meeting
[21:58] <Pici> eveningolly?
[21:58] <popey> fwiw I would have +1'ed both of them
[21:58] <czajkowski> popey: no worries you sent you apoligies
[21:59] <czajkowski> well that may make https://twitter.com/#!/andreagrandi/status/98499748616609793 happy as I tried to explain to him why he got 3/5 but there were 7 of us
[21:59] <jono> jcastro, ping?
[21:59] <jcastro> jono: pong
[22:00] <jono> jcastro, you are hitting up the San Jose cloud camp?
[22:00] <jcastro> which one?
[22:00] <jono> it is while the NOSQL conf is on
[22:00] <jono> I am sending the mail now
[22:00] <jcastro> yeah
[22:00] <jcastro> it's scale out camp
[22:00] <jcastro> run by the cloud camp people
[22:00] <jcastro> but yeah
[22:00] <jcastro> "Scale Out Camp"
[22:00] <czajkowski> soc :)
[22:01] <jono> yup
[22:05] <jcastro> jono: ok I'm going to go ahead and mail David and ask for a slot
[22:05] <jcastro> all cool?
[22:05] <jono> jcastro, totally
[22:11] <jcastro> jono: is that guy's fulltime job cloudcamps? I can't imagine planning all those is a part time affair
[22:18] <jono> jcastro, I think so
[22:20] <jcastro> jono: got your # of forumalae as well
[22:20] <jcastro> 27.
[22:20] <jcastro> this "principia-tools" package is ftw.
[22:42] <jono> jcastro, sweet!
[22:43] <czajkowski> paultag: darling are you about ?
[23:23] <jcastro> Daviey: hey
[23:23] <jcastro> your alice package
[23:23] <jcastro> the guy told me that you want to pull from github, not CPAN
[23:23] <jcastro> I am updating my formula now
[23:26] <Daviey> why?
[23:26] <jcastro> he says it's broken and out of date
[23:26] <Daviey> jcastro: Then tell him to update cpan :)
[23:26] <Daviey> I really don't want to maintain a snapshot in Debian.