[07:26] <daubers> Morning
[07:34] <bigcalm> Howdy kids :)
[07:52] <BigRedS> g'morning!
[07:59] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:02] <KrisDouglas> Morning
[08:03] <diplo> morning all
[08:03] <KrisDouglas> I need to start coming into work at 10 again
[08:03] <MooDoo> pah! ;)
[08:16] <JamesTait> Morning all!
[08:39] <bigcalm> Has emma ever spoken in here?
[08:41] <AlanBell> dunno, but she asked in -irc to have the ban lifted because she has fixed her connection, which was the reason for the ban
[08:44] <emma> thanks AlanBell
[08:50] <gord> popey, to maybe get you re-interested in the screencast project :) http://idratherbewriting.com/2011/07/22/a-few-notes-from-usability-testing-video-tutorials-get-watched-text-gets-skipped/
[08:52] <bigcalm> AlanBell: fair enough
[08:52] <bigcalm> emma: welcome back :)
[08:53] <emma> bigcalm: thanks :)
[08:55] <bigcalm> gord: I think it depends upon the subject matter. I've seen screen casts when howto text would have been preferred
[08:56] <gord> bigcalm, yup, because you wern't a new user, you are experienced, experienced people skip videos as the article points out
[08:56] <oimon> yeah, or maybe the happy medium of screenshots
[08:56] <gord> you are just after a specific bit of info so you want text you can scan
[08:57] <bigcalm> gord: ah, I didn't look at the link, just read the URL ;)
[08:58] <oimon> me too :P
[08:58] <oimon> i suppose we're the kind who don't watch vids either :)
[09:00] <popey> gord: nice!
[09:10] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:10] <dwatkins> hiya
[09:11] <brobostigon> morning dwatkins
[09:12] <dwatkins> I trust all is well with people
[09:12] <brobostigon> other than my eczema getting worse because of this heat, i am fine.
[09:12] <brobostigon> and you?
[09:14] <dwatkins> I have the same problem, coincidentally.
[09:14] <dwatkins> I'm also in an air conditioned office but have the window open due to the heat, despite the rain outside.
[09:14] <popey> tsk tsk tsk
[09:15] <popey> our windows dont even open
[09:15] <brobostigon> :(
[09:15] <dwatkins> I was surprised to learn that they do here, but very glad - I think the aircon has one sensor for the whole floor.
[09:15] <bigcalm> It's a bit muggy
[09:16]  * dwatkins goes to share his thoughts with the facilities department
[09:16] <dwatkins> yeah bigcalm
[09:17] <oimon> i don't understand when premises are airconditioned to really cool temperature in warm weather - why not a pleasant medium?
[09:18] <oimon> went into coop yesterday and it felt like standing inside a freezer
[09:18] <gord> because someone walked in out of the heat and thought "this is only medium, i need to get cold!" and changed the thermostat
[09:19] <BigRedS> oimon: 16 Celsius *is* a pleasant medium
[09:19] <BigRedS> :)
[09:19] <tola_> gord: heh
[09:20] <BigRedS> but, yeah, I get similarly annoyed with heating in winter
[09:20] <bigcalm> Mystic Meg is a silly medium
[09:20] <oimon> my office is cool today, without air con
[09:21] <oimon> thats what you get for sitting behind 6 metres of 1960s concrete in a NW facing room
[09:21] <BigRedS> bigcalm: :)
[09:22] <bigcalm> \o/
[09:23] <bigcalm> If one uses xorg.conf, does X then ignore all other config files?
[09:25] <brobostigon> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xorg   it seems the config files in newer xorg's are alittle different.
[09:26] <bigcalm> Indeed
[09:26] <brobostigon> but having fixed config present, will override xorg's auto config, yes.
[09:27] <bigcalm> I'm wondering how to stop my windows from becoming sluggish to refresh by the afternoon. I fear 'stop using Java' is the biggest saving
[09:28] <brobostigon> yes, java, flash etc wont help.
[09:31] <bigcalm> Aha, I don't use flash so that might as well be removed
[09:32] <bigcalm> Actually, I was wondering if I needed to add any modules to my xorg.conf file if X is ignoring everything else
[09:33] <brobostigon> not a clue, myself, popey helped me last time i have xorg issues.
[09:34] <bigcalm> So I'm removing traces of flash from my system. Is libquvi0 required?
[09:34] <brobostigon> !info libguvi0
[09:34] <brobostigon> !info libguv
[09:35] <bigcalm> It's in the software centre
[09:35] <bigcalm> !info libquvi0
[09:35]  * bigcalm shrugs
[09:35] <brobostigon> why didnt it work for me?
[09:36] <bigcalm> You did g not q
[09:36] <brobostigon> ah.
[09:36] <brobostigon> ok
[09:36] <bigcalm> Aww, down side to no flash is I don't get to enjoy Weebl's Stuff
[09:37] <brobostigon> yes.
[09:38] <bigcalm> Or Absolute80s :'(
[09:46]  * BigRedS listens to the Spice Girls for a bit
[09:50] <MartijnVdS> poor BigRedS
[09:50] <BigRedS> I did sort-of ask for it
[09:50] <BigRedS> Actually, I literally asked for it...
[09:53] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: so, which one is your favourite? :)
[09:54] <bigcalm> Old
[09:57] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: I've not really been following them, and I suspect they've changed a bit now...
[09:57] <danfish> morning
[09:57] <BigRedS> g'morning!
[09:57] <danfish> BigRedS: I tell you what you want, what you really really want
[09:58] <BigRedS> danfish: stop right now, thank you very much
[09:58] <danfish> :D
[09:58] <Kirrus> danfish: didn't put that one on. I think that would have been a bit too much, even for BigRedS ;) :P
[09:59] <bigcalm> Started typing in gedit as though it was a terminal. That's not going to work for long
[09:59] <Kirrus> too used to using vi?
[09:59] <oracology> bigcalm: I keep a terminal plugin active in gedit for just such occasions :)
[09:59] <bigcalm> Not really, just what was being displayed looked like a dir listing
[10:00] <bigcalm> Heh
[10:06] <davmor2> morning all
[10:06]  * davmor2 prods czajkowski to gauge her mode
[10:06] <bigcalm> Hullo hullo
[10:06] <brobostigon> morning davmor2
[10:06] <davmor2> morning bigcalm brobostigon
[10:08] <bigcalm> I can't believe that my 1st thought to fix mp3 playback was to reboot :(
[10:08] <bigcalm> At least rebooting is quick when you have an SSD
[10:08] <bigcalm> :)
[10:08] <davmor2> bigcalm: did it work though?
[10:08] <bigcalm> Yes
[10:09] <bigcalm> Result was what I wanted. Just not the path I would have taken a few years ago
[10:09] <bigcalm> I've been using windows for too long
[10:09]  * popey hugs SSD
[10:11] <MooDoo> yay SSD :)
[10:12] <bigcalm> The only thing left that stops me from working like I used to is the DisplayLink USB thing not working at the same time as the nvidia card
[10:12] <bigcalm> 2 monitors is better than 1 though. But was very used to spreading out on 3
[10:12] <popey> i have gone back to one monitor at home
[10:13] <bigcalm> In any case, I'm glad I'm using Ubuntu all the time now
[10:13] <popey> oh, you are?
[10:13] <bigcalm> I am
[10:13] <bigcalm> :)
[10:13] <popey> i thought you were still on windows daytime
[10:13]  * popey is on xp atm
[10:13] <popey> ☹
[10:13] <bigcalm> Nope, got fed up of the random crashes in Windows 7
[10:13] <daubers> \o/ random crashes
[10:14] <daubers> bigcalm: That's a feature to make sure you're aware of how you should be working
[10:14] <bigcalm> Running Ubuntu on my workstation and doing dev was an experiment that seems to be working out ok
[10:14] <bigcalm> daubers: :)
[10:14] <bigcalm> TBH, I don't mind what OS I'm using, as long as it works
[10:14] <daubers> I don't mind as long as it doesn't get in my way
[10:15] <bigcalm> I've reached the point in life when I realise that computers are just a tool for getting work done
[10:23] <czajkowski> daubers: oi
[10:23] <czajkowski> davmor2: oi
[10:23] <czajkowski> daubers: sorry
[10:23] <daubers> czajkowski: huh?
[10:23] <MooDoo> hi czajkowski davmor2
[10:23] <czajkowski> daubers: bad tab complete
[10:24] <davmor2> daubers: don't believe her she isn't she's like that :)
[10:24] <davmor2> czajkowski: morning
[10:24] <davmor2> MooDoo: Morning dude
[10:24]  * daubers changes the music and goes back to wiki editing
[10:25] <MooDoo> davmor2: how goes it?
[10:26] <bigcalm> This is confusing. Every video I look at on youtube requires flash to play
[10:26] <bigcalm> What happened to the HTML5 trial?
[10:27] <davmor2> bigcalm: are you on the html version of the site?
[10:27] <jussi> bigcalm: youtube.com/html5
[10:28] <bigcalm> Ta
[10:28] <bigcalm> Odd, thought I was already on the trial
[10:30] <davmor2> bigcalm: ah had you signed in?
[10:30] <dwatkins> Perhaps it's per-browser or something.
[10:32] <gord> it is per-browser
[10:33] <dwatkins> Wierd, I signed-up on the page jussi cited, but it's still showing me flash videos.
[10:34] <jussi> yeah it is per browser (its a cookie iirc)
[10:36] <bigcalm> Gotcha, I feel dumb :)
[10:36] <AlanBell> £60 for answering a few questions https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2011-August/030943.html
[10:38] <bigcalm> Minus cost of getting to Canonical
[10:40] <BigRedS> They're in London. Isn't everybody?
[10:40] <bigcalm> ¬.¬
[10:41] <dwatkins> I'm not.
[10:42] <bigcalm> dwatkins: we're not everybody then
[10:43] <BigRedS> to be fair, I'm not in London, either
[10:44] <Kirrus> BigRedS: Except for every (other) weekend... :P
[10:44] <BigRedS> nah, it's more frequent than that :)
[10:44] <davmor2> I'm not I don't create apps for other platforms either
[10:44] <AlanBell> quite amused they think world of goo is a little app tbh
[10:45] <bigcalm> I develop web apps...
[10:45] <bigcalm> For monies
[10:46] <AlanBell> I would much rather sit down and write an OpenOffice clone from scratch than World of Goo
[10:46] <bigcalm> o.O
[10:47] <gord> actually. world of go kinda is a little ap
[10:47] <gord> it was first coded as an entry to one of those time limited game development competitions
[10:47] <gord> iirc it uses a modified version of ODE for its physics
[10:49] <AlanBell> gosh, didn't know that
[10:50] <directhex> programmers can't write games. there's far more to a game than the engine
[10:51] <MartijnVdS> Engine is the easy bit :)
[10:51] <gord> not all programmers are game developers, but that does no game developers can be programmers
[10:52] <davmor2> AlanBell: Yeah but your insane :D
[10:53] <directhex> programmers can be game developers, but they can't write games. designers of various types write games. in some cases, the same person may cover multiple roles, i.e. a programmer may also be a designer
[10:53] <gord> right, but your assertion that programmers can't write games
[10:53] <gord> is false
[10:54] <gord> sure they can, they just have to also have the skill set to design the game
[10:54] <AlanBell> my grip on reality is somewhat tenuous, granted. But getting the blobs to distort and move right plus animating a whole load of blobs keeping track of state and momentum vectors and updating everything every frame just sounds like a nightmare to me
[10:54] <directhex> i forget, we have a distro filled with super-awesome AAA games by pure programmers
[10:54] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: that's why objects rock -- they just keep track of themselves :)
[10:54] <AlanBell> plus collision detection and stickyness stuff
[10:55] <MartijnVdS> directhex: nethack!
[10:55] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: collision detection and physics ARE annoying problems, but not as hard as you think once you start to break them down in an event-driven world
[10:56] <davmor2> directhex, gord: without a programmer the game will exist but it will be heavily patented by Waddingtons I think you'll find and the boxes will generally be much bigger :D
[10:56] <bigcalm> Put 'nethack' into software centre and it includes 'PuTTY Terminal Emulator' in the list
[10:56] <AlanBell> it is a world apart from applications that consist of forms with fields on and business processes and workflow stuff
[10:56] <bigcalm> WEird
[10:57] <gord> AlanBell, it would take me a weekend to write a world of goo clone, years to clone open office ;)
[10:57] <directhex> davmor2, there are hundreds of top-level engines available off the shelf. and the existence of "total conversion" mods for existing games shows how little a programmer is needed to generate a "full" game
[10:57] <hamitron> real men make their own engine ;)
[10:58] <AlanBell> gord: I guess for me OpenOffice.org has no "magic" in it
[10:58] <gord> AlanBell, its all smoke and mirrors ;)
[10:58] <AlanBell> where sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
[10:58] <BigRedS> AlanBell: I'm told there's lots of black magic, voodoo etc. in it
[10:58] <davmor2> directhex: who made the engine?  who modded the engine? my point was with no programmer games would still be on boards
[10:59] <BigRedS> I thought the earlier point was that you needed more than just a programmer?
[10:59] <gord> directhex, just fyi, those "total conversion" mods, always involve a full C++ knowlege as well as the API's exposed by the game engine and the ability to wield visual C++
[10:59] <gord> you very much need programmers to make those
[11:00] <davmor2> BigRedS: Yeap but my point was with out a programmer there would still be no game so they're just as essential
[11:00] <directhex> C++? how delightfully specific
[11:00] <gord> what?
[11:00] <BigRedS> davmor2: yeah, they're essential. But so is everybody else
[11:00] <directhex> games use multiple engines. high-level scripting engines are simple enough that the artists do all that themselves.
[11:00] <AlanBell> BigRedS: I understand everything it does, none of it is advanced, none of it is time critical programming (as in you must move everything on screen before the next vertical blank comes along)
[11:01] <BigRedS> AlanBell: no, but it's all done very very badly FWIG :)
[11:01] <davmor2> BigRedS: what about the one man indie game manufacturer?
[11:01] <BigRedS> davmor2: he's more than just a programmer :)
[11:01] <hamitron> AlanBell: "none of it is time critical" <-- good job with how long it takes to start ;)
[11:01] <BigRedS> "I'd like to start a spreadsheet next thursday" *double-clicks OOo icon*
[11:02] <bigcalm> Humm, that's a point
[11:02] <AlanBell> not time critical
[11:02] <bigcalm> Why do spreadsheets take so long to open?
[11:02] <AlanBell> that is "would be nice if it were faster"
[11:02] <livingdaylight> FF seems to have triggered an issue and now I cannot bootup into Ubuntu, any longer. I get BOOTMGR is missing on startup
[11:02] <bigcalm> The app loads quickly. Opening .xlsx is pants slow though
[11:03] <davmor2> bigcalm: cause you are using OOo and not LO?
[11:03] <directhex> the programmers aren't the ones deciding on the "game" part, because they'd be crap at it. the designers can build the game on top of the foundation laid by the programmers.
[11:03] <bigcalm> davmor2: nope, LO is the default in 11.04 which is what I've left it as
[11:03] <hamitron> is the code IBM has put into OOo going to be in LO?
[11:04] <AlanBell> hamitron: it isn't in OOo yet, it has just been offered.
[11:04] <hamitron> yeh, I was assuming it will be
[11:04] <hamitron> "if" then
[11:04] <davmor2> bigcalm: SS here opens in a 1-2 seconds here
[11:04] <hamitron> ;)
[11:04] <AlanBell> and I don't think that is likely to be code of a higher quality than the rest of it
[11:04] <bigcalm> davmor2: .xlsx?
[11:04] <AlanBell> livingdaylight: sounds more fundamental than firefox!
[11:05] <hamitron> AlanBell: I just read it adds support for better running of macro
[11:05] <livingdaylight> AlanBell: ok, but firefox seems to have triggered it
[11:05] <bigcalm> Pondering moving to ODF. It's a business document though, so others need to be able to open it
[11:05] <davmor2> bigcalm: you didn't say that you said it takes an age to open a spreadsheet you can't go changing the rules half way through the process
[11:05] <AlanBell> hamitron: yeah, they did some stuff on VB macros, that is probably worth merging (macros need to die in a fire though)
[11:05] <BigRedS> Well, they can download and install LO/OOo </hippy>
[11:06] <bigcalm> davmor2: hehe, aww, sorry :)
[11:06] <hamitron> AlanBell: I agree, it just shuts up some of those complaining for now :)
[11:06] <popey> livingdaylight: unlikely
[11:06] <davmor2> bigcalm: on your machine use ODF if you need to send it to a company save a copy in whatever format and ship it out
[11:07]  * popey creates a 100GB oracle tablespace
[11:07] <livingdaylight> after not being able to boot up at first I then was, which is strange ini itself. I ran it for a few days using chrome, when FF was launched by clicking on a link sent by twitter using Gwibber system crashed again and this time I can't log in at all
[11:07] <popey> Time Passess..
[11:07] <AlanBell> hamitron: the rest of the stuff they have done is some fairly radical UI tinkering (mostly ick imho) and eclipse integration (what were they thinking) and accessibility improvements (great, if they can be merged without the rest)
[11:07] <davmor2> popey: time still passing...
[11:07] <popey> yeah, been 17 mins so far
[11:07] <livingdaylight> I'm bricking it, because I don't want to lose everything I had on this system
[11:08] <popey> livingdaylight: can you still see the hard disk in the BIOS?
[11:08] <popey> livingdaylight: can you press shift after the BIOS to trigger the GRUB menu?
[11:08] <AlanBell> livingdaylight: at a guess the HDD is failing and FF happened to be on a really bad sector or something like that
[11:09] <livingdaylight> popey: I can check. It is now letting me go to the log in page but after logging in Desktop just flickers and unity bar is not there, just the wallpaper
[11:09] <popey> livingdaylight: can you boot from a live CD / USB and "see" the hard disk?
[11:09] <popey> ok
[11:09] <AlanBell> I need to do a fsck myself actually o/
[11:09] <popey> this is less disasterous than you made out initially :D
[11:10] <livingdaylight> AlanBell: that's a thought. Problem definitely materialised ever since I loaded Gwibber and ran FF as a consequence of it being default browser for links
[11:11] <davmor2> sudo fsck AlanBell system incompatible with irc removing
[11:11] <bigcalm> davmor2: internal company document shared over dropbox. I'm the only LO user, everybody else is using MS Office
[11:11] <livingdaylight> popey: it feels disastrous. What worries me is the inconsistent error returns
[11:12] <davmor2> bigcalm: so import it one save it locally as odf and save the copy in dropbox as xmlx or whatever it is :D
[11:12] <bigcalm> Ug
[11:13] <davmor2> bigcalm: you know you love my solutions :D
[11:13] <bigcalm> davmor2: it's starting to make my brain itch :P
[11:14] <popey> livingdaylight: you have backups?
[11:14] <davmor2> bigcalm: only worry when the tick starts
[11:14] <bigcalm> Time to pause for lunch I think :)
[11:14] <livingdaylight> popey: no
[11:16] <popey> livingdaylight: you might want to consider a backup system
[11:17] <MartijnVdS> backups \o/
[11:18] <livingdaylight> where in BIOS would I see the hard disc?
[11:18] <MartijnVdS> depends on the bios
[11:18] <popey> hang on
[11:18] <popey> if you're already booted to the desktop then my questions about BIOS dont apply
[11:19] <popey> my questions related to your initial issue which seems to no longer be affecting you
[11:19] <livingdaylight> ok, naturally, lol
[11:19] <livingdaylight> now, how to access contents of installation?
[11:20] <livingdaylight> i.e. home
[11:26] <livingdaylight> ?
[11:28] <BigRedS> livingdaylight: where are you now? booted into the install itself?
[11:41] <livingdaylight> BigRedS: I was. I tried going booting into classic instead of unity, with pretty much the same results except Desktop icons were not flickering. But when I hit ctl+alt+F1 system went to command line and started shooting long readings of I/0 numeric messages regarding /dev/sda
[11:41] <livingdaylight> I've now booted up ubuntu live 10.10
[11:42] <BigRedS> ah
[11:42] <livingdaylight> Can someone please tell me how I would, in theory at least, mount my partitiions?
[11:42] <BigRedS> they're probably already mounted
[11:42] <BigRedS> if the system's booted
[11:42] <livingdaylight> I see it!
[11:43] <livingdaylight> now I just need to find an external hd to transfer my files :p
[11:48] <livingdaylight> Can't access my files due to permission issues. Can soemone tell me how to get this permission so that I can access and transfer files to safety?
[11:50] <BigRedS> livingdaylight: only if we know who you're logged in as and what the permissions on the files are
[11:53] <livingdaylight> BigRedS: running live cd, is one not logged in as a default user?
[11:53] <BigRedS> ah, I thought you were booted up on the hd install
[11:53] <BigRedS> so, yeah, you are
[11:54] <BigRedS> it's probably easiest to do everything as root/with sudo
[11:54] <BigRedS> *carefully*
[11:54] <BigRedS> rather than try changing the ownership of all the files
[11:54] <livingdaylight> sudo nautilus didn't seem to work. Didn't see any of my files then
[11:54] <BigRedS> or you could create a user with a uid matching that which owns the files on the disk, grant that user write access to teh usb disk, then su to that user
[11:55] <BigRedS> er, there's a switch to pass to nautilus to get just the filemanager bit
[11:55] <BigRedS> and gksudo is preferred to sudo for gtk apps (like nautilus)
[11:55] <BigRedS> gksudo nautilus --browser
[11:55] <BigRedS> should be it
[11:56] <BigRedS> I think
[11:56] <BigRedS> That's not tested, though
[11:57] <andylockran> heya guys
[11:58] <andylockran> I fancy running a twitter feed of a #hashtag during a live debate.  The hashtag will be of the debate, but I want to be able to audit the comments before they're projected onto the screen.  Any suggestions for software to do this?
[12:06] <daubers> Is lo still as much of a train crash as it used to be?
[12:06] <andylockran> lo ?
[12:06] <daubers> linux outlaws
[12:12] <andylockran> I've not listened to it much
[12:12] <andylockran> the debate is for a healthcare charity @ the big 3 party conferences next month
[12:17] <daubers> andylockran: I've only ever seen generic twitter falls, so not sure which ones allow moderating
[12:17] <andylockran> yeah.. may have to purchase/write something
[12:17] <daubers> andylockran: Quick google gives this http://code.google.com/p/guardian-twitterfall/
[12:22] <AlanBell> andylockran: I used gwibber in the past, hacked in a full screen mode, but no moderation
[12:23] <AlanBell> andylockran: the tweepy api can do streaming real time updates, I would start with that
[12:29] <andylockran> Thank you.  The guardian-twitterfall looks interesting
[12:35] <popey> daubers: have a listen? it's not to everyones tastes, but they have a lot of listeners
[12:36] <daubers> popey: I used to regularly, had just grabbed the most recent ep to see if it still annoys me or not
[12:36] <popey> hah
[12:36] <popey> what annoys you?
[12:36] <popey> I made the mistake of correcting Fab last night during their live show
[12:37] <bigcalm> Blame popey
[12:37] <daubers> It used to be a mix of the general attitude and it went a bit .... wandery and unfocused which was why I stopped listening
[12:37] <czajkowski> popey: how well did that go down :)
[12:38] <popey> not well
[12:39] <popey> he said something about jonos job being PR only
[12:39] <popey> that he does no developer relations
[12:39] <popey> I pointed out he has people who do that for him, Jorge and Daniel
[12:39] <czajkowski> I beg to differ especially this cycle
[12:39] <popey> meh
[12:39] <popey> not me you need to convince
[12:39] <czajkowski> I don't listen to LO
[12:39] <czajkowski> I dont mind dan
[12:40] <czajkowski> but find Fab waffles and talks more shite than an old irish man in a pub!
[12:40] <czajkowski> and that's a lot of waffle and shite
[12:40] <davmor2> czajkowski: Language
[12:40] <directhex> everyone's trying my mono backports, i trust?
[12:40] <davmor2> directhex: NO!
[12:41] <directhex> SHAME ON YOU
[12:41] <hamitron> no mono :/
[12:46] <davmor2> directhex: I don't have backports enabled on this system and the others I work on are a huge mix of oneiric and maverick
[12:49] <AlanBell> daubers: I think there might be a gap in the podcast market
[12:50] <directhex> davmor2, it's in my PPA. no official backports are possible for mono
[12:50] <daubers> AlanBell: Hmmm?
[12:50] <AlanBell> I am pondering starting one around free software in the workplace
[12:50] <davmor2> directhex: then definitely not then this is my production system I trust nothing ;)
[12:50] <daubers> AlanBell: heh, sounds kinda fun
[12:52] <DJones> daubers: Can you do this with you arduino setup http://www.thelocal.se/35306/20110802/
[12:54] <daubers> DJones: Building a nuclear reactor is relativley easy. Building a good/safe reactor is moderatley hard. Getting hold of fissionable material is nearly impossible
[12:54] <DJones> daubers: Sounds like that bloke didn't have much problem getting the materials
[12:55] <daubers> DJones: I'd suspect they weren't very good. To get enough material from smoke alarms you'd need thousands and thousands of them
[12:56] <daubers> DJones: tbh, from a news site that allows so much swearing (http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/snuggling/2011/08/01/no-more-babies-on-airplanes/) I'd be very doubtful of their accuracy
[12:57] <DJones> Heh
[12:59] <daubers> You could probably build a RTU from smoke alarms, you'd need a couple of thousand of them probably and might generate a watt, but it's not a proper fission reactor
[12:59] <daubers> RTG sorry not RTU
[13:04] <daubers> AlanBell: Scarily enough, I have little idea how _big_ enterprise systems work
[13:04] <popey> define "bug"
[13:05] <popey> er
[13:05] <popey> "big"
[13:05] <livingdaylight> I'm copying files using 'cp' command. Is there a difference between using option 'r' or 'R' when copying a folder such as 'Documents' to another hd?
[13:05] <daubers> popey: More than about 20 employees across multiple sites
[13:06] <popey> ah
[13:06] <daubers> most people I deal with are maybe 15/20 people in one building
[13:06] <directhex> livingdaylight, no, they're the same thing
[13:06] <daubers> occasionally a University department, but that's different again
[13:06] <popey> how about 140K employees?
[13:07] <daubers> popey: Wouldn't know where to start :) (Other than get in a contractor who has more of a clue)
[13:07]  * popey wonders how many sites this place has
[13:07] <popey> hehe
[13:08] <popey> the "add printer" dialog is amusing here
[13:08] <popey> you _have_ to filter by country
[13:08] <daubers> The main thing I've wondered about is how big places like that using Linux cope without a unified directory tool (i.e. controlling menu permissions and the like)
[13:08] <popey> oh, we dont have linux on the desktop
[13:08] <daubers> gnome seems to have little ldap integration for that kind of thing
[13:08] <popey> bazillions of servers, no linux desktops
[13:08] <popey> and use ldap
[13:10] <daubers> would be nice to see some ldap integration sneak into unity
[13:10] <gord> patches welcome :)
[13:10] <AlanBell> I was talking to a SAP Senior Manager for Deloitte yesterday
[13:11] <AlanBell> they are kind of interested in whether they should be offering OpenERP services to enterprise yet
[13:11]  * popey used to work for Deloitte SAP practice
[13:11] <gord> quick read of ldap wikipedia page shows i'm dumb
[13:11] <gord> no simple.wikipedia.org page for it either :(
[13:11] <directhex> gord, ?
[13:12] <daubers> gord: I've been considering having a go... but have yet to manage to get an ldap server to play nice with linux :)
[13:12] <directhex> i deployed replicated LDAP for auth, with 400 clients
[13:13] <popey> what would /usr/bin/slapd be?
[13:13] <popey> (thats the ldap we use)
[13:13] <popey> (on linux)
[13:13] <gord> i jigglied the giggawatts with ldap for a billion new widgets
[13:13] <popey>  /usr/sbin/slapd even
[13:13] <daubers> popey: I think it's still slapd
[13:14] <popey> no, i mean what product would that be
[13:14] <AlanBell> openLDAP
[13:14] <popey> thats what we use then
[13:14] <daubers> gord: OSX server lets you do things like manage what people have in their docks, and set printers and whatnot from a unified directory thing
[13:15] <gord> don't we call that gsettings?
[13:15] <daubers> makes rolling out macs easy, "plug in mac, bind to server, reboot"
[13:16] <daubers> gord: does gsettings let you have a central server controlling it?
[13:16] <AlanBell> yeah, Ubuntu could be much better at that
[13:16] <directhex> popey, slapd is openldap's server process
[13:16] <directhex> bah, stupid dsl
[13:17] <AlanBell> Ubuntu server seems to have very very little to do with managing Ubuntu clients
[13:17] <davmor2> directhex: dsl == distintly slow line right?
[13:17] <gord> daubers, pretty sure it does
[13:17] <gord> its pretty much the idea
[13:17] <daubers> AlanBell: Solutions I've been given tend to be "Oh, I have a bash script that does some of that" and it's all pretty patchy
[13:17] <directhex> davmor2, speed is not the issue.
[13:18] <Daviey> daubers: I can't work out how to set what is in my local dock, let alone central management :)
[13:18] <AlanBell> yeah, what I want is that you install Ubuntu server, then when you install Ubuntu clients they find it by avahi or by specifying where it is, then just work
[13:18] <AlanBell> printers, user accounts, configurations, apt-cache etc.
[13:18] <oimon> puppet is a good configuration system
[13:18] <oimon> gets rid of bash scripts
[13:18] <Daviey> AlanBell: There is a good chance avahi discovery will land this cycle for automated installation.
[13:18] <davmor2> daubers: you can I think it's called landscape ;)
[13:19] <daubers> oimon: Still not an optimum solution. You have to muck around with it for each application
[13:19] <daubers> davmor2: never played with landscape :)
[13:19] <popey> avahi is no good in the enterprise
[13:19] <daubers> broadcast domain fail \o/
[13:19] <AlanBell> great for SMB
[13:20] <popey> good for single site, single network yes
[13:20] <Daviey> popey: agreed.. spanning multiple subnets doesn't work that well :)
[13:20] <daubers> AlanBell: Not if you have a network that crosses networks
[13:20] <davmor2> AlanBell: there is a difference between good and easy :)
[13:20] <directhex> i am gonna cook so much tasty food next week, omgs!
[13:20] <popey> daubers = good
[13:20] <popey> davmor2 = easy
[13:21] <daubers> Daviey: How would that work then? Avahi installation stuff?
[13:21] <davmor2> popey: Ha I'll have you know I resemble that comment
[13:21] <Daviey> daubers: I haven't touched the avahi part of it yet, but that shouldn't be too much of a challenge
[13:22] <Daviey> The idea is to enroll a new server with the provisioning server
[13:22] <AlanBell> so with avahi, you take your laptop, go to another office in the group, plug in and connect to the local server and pick up all the local settings
[13:22] <Daviey> daubers: The hardest part is auth.
[13:22] <daubers> AlanBell: Avahi only works within the local broadcast domain
[13:22] <AlanBell> daubers: yes, which is great
[13:23] <daubers> AlanBell: Not if you're in a building which has a different subnet on each floor (like some Uni's I've been into)
[13:23] <daubers> Daviey: So it would grab settings and stuff from the provisioning server?
[13:23] <AlanBell> if you don't have a server in each subnet it is an issue
[13:23] <Daviey> daubers: in principle, you can have a proxy agent.. but it's just fugly.
[13:24] <AlanBell> but like I said, it would be nice if it just works with avahi, or specify where your server is if avahi doesn't work for you
[13:24] <Daviey> daubers: well make it 'aware' on the server, for later options
[13:24] <gord> if something doesn't "just work" on ubuntu, its a bug :)
[13:24] <daubers> Daviey: A small step forwards then :)
[13:25]  * davmor2 files a bug against gord
[13:25]  * popey files a bug against davmor2 
[13:25] <Daviey> daubers: I haven't finished the enrollment tool yet.. but as it stands, http://pb.daviey.com/Rnip/
[13:25] <davmor2> popey: I only use windows to test ubuntu that doesn't count :P
[13:26] <gord> latest ubuntu upgrade stopped my wireless keyboard from working :(
[13:26]  * davmor2 counters popey's bug with several against popey :D
[13:27]  * popey points davmor2 at https://bugs.launchpad.net/popey/+filebug
[13:27] <Daviey> davmor2: you want this link, i think https://bugs.launchpad.net/popey/+filebug
[13:27] <Daviey> bah
[13:27] <popey> :D
[13:27] <davmor2> hahahaha!
[13:28] <Daviey> popey: it does seem you are currently 'bug free'
[13:28] <daubers> Daviey: Will you store the settings in some kind of db, or flatfile?
[13:28] <Daviey> daubers: 'settings' ?
[13:29] <daubers> Daviey: All the bumpf you pass down to the new server?
[13:29] <daubers> Or you will be passing down eventually
[13:29] <Daviey> daubers: Well, there is some data stored in the server, via cobbler
[13:29] <Daviey> for deployment, it's ensemble enabled :)
[13:30] <Daviey> the initial deploy is supposed to be quite dumb
[13:30] <Daviey> providing a reasonably stock installation.
[13:30] <Daviey> ensemble then puts the real payload on there..
[13:31] <Daviey> Talking about this hurts, it's reminding me of my TODO's.
[13:31] <davmor2> popey: there's one on there from your wife something about excessive time wasted on minecraft ;)
[13:31] <AlanBell> ensemble /o\
[13:32] <Daviey> An Austrialian celebrating
[13:33] <BigRedS> cPanel's MySQL-interference interface, is it PHPMyAdmin?
[13:34]  * daubers is failing in a sea of buzzwords while trying to find out what ensemble actually _does_
[13:35] <popey> heheh
[13:35] <popey> Canonical have screwed the marketing of ensemble up somewhat
[13:35] <popey> I know a few geeks who don't "get" it
[13:35] <gord> i had it explained to me as "apt get for building services"
[13:36] <AlanBell> it is a way of using 7 VMs when one will do
[13:36] <MartijnVdS> gord: "building services", like janitors?
[13:36] <gord> :)
[13:37] <Daviey> AlanBell: Interesting defintion, was that based on your personal experience?
[13:37] <AlanBell> Daviey: from watching the videos
[13:37] <popey> thats the scenario people pull out Daviey
[13:37] <AlanBell> so lets install a wordpress blog . . .
[13:37] <popey> throw up a wp install it pulls in mysql, apache etc, on lots of boxes
[13:38] <daubers> Hmmm.. this doesn't seem to fit into what I see as missing at all. This seems more orchestrated towards people who run on demand services that might need another server quickly. The ldap stuff is more for someone running a couple of offices who needs to be able to get a new desktop working with all the existing stuff relativley quickly
[13:38] <popey> which is mental
[13:38] <Daviey> I agree the communication has sucked on current development, but it's not released yet.
[13:38] <popey> thats no excuse
[13:38] <Daviey> Seems somewhat harsh to give it a bashing, based on not using it and in my mind, spread FUD.
[13:38] <hamitron> so it is good for implimenting services that need a lot of resources due to high load?
[13:39] <daubers> Daviey: Do a talk on it at Oggcamp and explain what it actually _does_
[13:39] <AlanBell> Daviey: I don't know of any use-case for it
[13:39] <popey> who's bashing ensemble?
[13:40] <Daviey> daubers: That is not a bad idea.. the concern i have is that i *might* not be able to attend this time.
[13:40] <daubers> the lower the density of buzzwords compared to density the more chance of cake :)
[13:40] <popey> \o/ cake
[13:40] <daubers> Daviey: Get a lackey to do it?
[13:40]  * Daviey ponders
[13:41] <Mez> Anyone know how to switch back to sane scrollbars?  Seems that the ickle farty things don't work in Java
[13:42] <andylockran> sudo apt-get remove overlay-scrollbar liboverlay-scrollbar-0.1-0
[13:42] <andylockran> No reboot is required. Though you will have to close and re-open applications to notice the change.
[13:42] <andylockran> If you decide later you want the overlay scrollbars back, simply reinstall the libraries
[13:42] <hamitron> andylockran: you remembered that off the top of your head? ;)
[13:42] <Mez> Thanks andylockran ... this is only so I can actually show you the mindmap of the backup stuff XD
[13:43] <andylockran> Awesome.
[13:43] <Mez> hamitron: I presume it's in his r-search
[13:43] <andylockran> want me to do it then, rather than break your machine?
[13:43] <Mez> Nah - I sorta need xmind anyways
[13:44] <daubers> Mez: You can disable it per app
[13:44] <Mez> daubers: how?
[13:45] <daubers> Mez: Can't remember :) Hang on
[13:45] <andylockran> xmind --disable-funky-scrolling
[13:45] <andylockran> unrecognised option '--disable-funky-scrolling'
[13:45] <Mez> hamitron: I presume it's in his r-searchhttp://askubuntu.com/questions/36448/is-there-a-way-to-blacklist-an-individual-application-from-using-overlay-scrollba
[13:45] <daubers> Mez: LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0
[13:46] <andylockran> export LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0
[13:46] <daubers> or just LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0 some_program
[13:46] <andylockran> correct
[13:49] <Daviey> Mez: Might be a good idea to raise a bug if it's not working correctly for you.
[13:49] <bigcalm> Oh my
[13:49] <bigcalm> A dubstep mix of House of Pain's Jump Around
[13:50] <bigcalm> I <3 Solid Steel for bringing me weird stuff :)
[13:51] <andylockran> Daviey: I'm sure a bug will be raised if we can't get it to work.
[13:51] <Daviey> andylockran: I mean, the original issue as to why Mez needs to disable it, rather than the disabling itself
[13:52] <andylockran> Daviey: ah, I get ye.
[13:52] <andylockran> I'll test it now.
[13:53] <popey> not really missing flash yet
[13:54] <andylockran> popey: do you use chrome?
[13:55]  * Daviey has been meaning to try http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/lightspark
[13:57] <popey> andylockran: i do
[13:57] <livingdaylight> file names with spaces in between have their spaces connected with a backslash, but my logitech ex100 keyboard doesn't seem to have a backslash key? I do see it next to the 'z' where it usually is but with or without shift key it is not giving me backslash - huh?
[14:01] <BigRedS> US keymap?
[14:01] <BigRedS> try, er, shift+'
[14:01] <BigRedS> I think
[14:03] <DJones> Or use tab completion, that should take account of the spaces as well
[14:06] <livingdaylight> DJones: I have two files starting with 'A' so 'A' + tab completion isn't working.
[14:08] <BigRedS> it should tab-complete as far as the names are the same, where you can then start typing again
[14:09] <BigRedS> or, yeah, shift + (something near the ' key) will do a backslash on a us keyboard
[14:12] <popey> blimey, http://popey.com/minecraft/day/#/-743/64/892/-7/mcmapLighting
[14:12] <popey> getting bigger ⍨
[14:14] <bigcalm> Hope your server is happy :)
[14:14] <popey> heh
[14:14] <DJones> What is that going to be?
[14:15] <DJones> And who's building it?
[14:17] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/657220/
[14:17] <popey> seems okay
[14:24] <andylockran> :)
[14:31] <Daviey> popey: it is quite the ram hog. :/
[14:34] <BigRedS> it's java, that's a feature
[14:37] <popey> yeah
[14:54] <bigcalm> popey: looking at g+: do you no longer require my Linksys box?
[15:00] <bigcalm> Spooky. I'm using 6% of my gmail and google apps mail accounts
[15:04] <popey> bigcalm: not sure yet
[15:05] <bigcalm> popey: ok. Let me know either way by the 12th :)
[15:06] <popey> wilco!
[15:53] <andylockran> :)
[15:54] <AlanBell> yay proposal 1 of 4 accepted \o/
[15:57] <daubers> AlanBell: business?
[15:57] <AlanBell> yeah, openERP
[15:57] <daubers> Ah, ok
[16:06] <rml_home> dd
[16:06] <AlanBell> hi rml_home
[16:07] <rml_home> window feck up :)
[16:07] <andylockran> !family
[16:08] <AlanBell> feck is a perfectly polite word
[16:09] <AlanBell> or so czajkowski says
[16:09] <AlanBell> and I am not going to argue
[16:09] <AlanBell> !ping
[16:09] <AlanBell> the bot is working though
[16:12] <bigcalm> !language
[16:12] <bigcalm> !ohmy
[16:12] <bigcalm> !swearing
[16:12] <bigcalm> !swearr
[16:12] <bigcalm> !swear
[16:12] <bigcalm> 2 out of many is ok :)
[16:13] <davmor2> AlanBell: wimp, although she is closer to you than me :D
[16:20] <MooDoo> davmor2: someone fighting with czajkowski ?
[16:21] <BigRedS> Oh great. If I'd like just three lines in only this email non-wrapped, I have to close the composition window, faff with about:config, send the mail, then unfaff about:config....
[16:21] <czajkowski> AlanBell: it is
[16:21] <davmor2> MooDoo: nah I'm trying to goad AlanBell into it :)
[16:21] <MooDoo> davmor2: she'd kill him
[16:22] <davmor2> czajkowski: changing u for e and saying it's a good clean Irish Word is a lie ;)
[16:23] <hamitron> nobody can understand what the Irish say anyway? ;)
[16:23] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: you need to have some alcohol in your blood first
[16:23] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: only way to make the language pronounceable
[16:24] <hamitron> :)
[16:24] <MartijnVdS> same with Scottish really
[16:25] <shauno> pft.  a dutchman claiming scottish isn't pronouncable?  pot kettle mate :p
[16:25] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Dutch is perfectly pronounceable
[16:25] <shauno> lies!
[16:26] <MartijnVdS> shauno: you should try it some time
[16:29] <shauno> heh, I have.  I got laughed at :/
[16:30] <MartijnVdS> shauno: try some other place than a coffee shop. ;)
[16:30] <shauno> heh, that was on vent
[16:31] <MartijnVdS> vent?
[16:31] <shauno> like mumble, but hates freedom
[16:31] <MartijnVdS> (ah)
[18:35] <MartijnVdS> Does (re)starting unity on oneiric take ~30s for everyone else?
[18:35] <MartijnVdS> Or is it just me?
[18:39] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: no idea I've not needed to restart unity
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: and on login?
[18:39] <ali1234> does it even work on nvidia?
[18:39] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: on no login is rapid, and then maybe 2-3 seconds tops
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: it's 20-30s here, on login
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> intel i3, but that shouldn't matter imho
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> it didn't on natty
[18:41] <gord> MartijnVdS, what gpu?
[18:41] <MartijnVdS> gord: [   209.731] (II) intel(0): Integrated Graphics Chipset: Intel(R) Clarkdale
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> (pre-SandyBridge i3)
[18:42] <gord> hrm should be fine, something funky is going on
[18:42] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: try a livecd and see how long that takes
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> gord: anything I can do to determine what's going on?
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: that'll take ages because of the CD slowness :)
[18:43] <gord> i had weirdness with huge login times when i first upgraded to O, never figured out the source but it eventually figured itself out
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> live USB though.. *burning*
[18:43] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: if the installed version is slower then there is an issue
[18:43] <gord> MartijnVdS, without trying a previous version of unity, its hard to tell
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> I just did a unity --reset and that didn't help
[18:43] <gord> trying a guest session might help
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> gord: the natty version is fine, is that previous enough? :)
[18:43] <gord> too previous :)
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> gord: ah, good idea. Will do that.
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> Guest session is fine
[18:46] <MartijnVdS> I've had more problems with this install
[18:46] <MartijnVdS> I think I might have broken something in early oneiric
[18:47] <gord> huh, looking at humblebundle.com - linux has taken in more payment than mac :)
[18:47] <MartijnVdS> gord: total or per transaction?
[18:47] <gord> i would guestimate about half the number of payments
[18:47] <gord> MartijnVdS, total
[18:47] <MartijnVdS> Linux nerds want games :)
[18:48] <gord> sad to see how little windows users pay
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> hah, MtGox and Notch are top contributors
[18:48] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: I can recommend waiting till thursday and doing a fresh install of oneiric if that helps?
[18:49] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: I was considering getting an SSD anyway, can't get that before Thursday
[18:49] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: so.. yeah, that sounds like a good idea
[18:49] <MartijnVdS> So next subject.. which SSDs are horrible, which ones aren't? popey? :)
[18:49] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: alpha 3 will be out then with it's own list of issues but better than the one your having :)
[18:50] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: I'm used to Ubuntu alphas (having used them since ~hoary hedgehog ;))
[18:52] <popey> i have had no issues with any of mine
[18:52] <MartijnVdS> so.. the Intel 510 SSD (120GB) should be good, I guess
[18:52] <MartijnVdS> SATA-600
[18:52] <davmor2> popey: which ones have you had?
[18:55] <popey> davmor2: http://paste.ubuntu.com/657414/
[18:56] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: ^ those ones popey has had no issues with :)
[18:56] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: thanks, popey :P
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> Wow @ Corsair specs
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> 550MB/s read
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> 520 write
[18:58]  * hamitron waits for SATA1200
[18:58] <hamitron> ;)
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: you can get PCI-E-connected SSDs now
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: so you can skip the wait
[18:59] <hamitron> true
[18:59] <hamitron> I thought you could before?
[18:59] <hamitron> but I'm not even onto any SSD yet
[19:00] <hamitron> I'm looking forward to motherboards for the average desktop, that will handle more RAM
[19:00] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: how much?
[19:00] <hamitron> hmmm
[19:00] <hamitron> 128Gb
[19:00] <hamitron> maybe more
[19:01] <hamitron> nearly there
[19:01] <hamitron> :)
[19:01] <hamitron> my new comp build will handle 16Gb, which is enough to play with for now
[19:04] <MartijnVdS> you think? :)
[19:04] <hamitron> just
[19:04] <hamitron> ;)
[19:05] <hamitron> the 16Gb I think will be plenty, 8Gb for the OS, 8Gb for ram
[19:06] <hamitron> but by the time it is the norm all this high speed file stuff, there may be some memory on the motherboard specially for this?
[19:07]  * hamitron shrugs
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> why 8GB OS?
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> 2GB OS, 14G disk-cache :)
[19:08] <hamitron> well, 8Gb RAM is needed for application space
[19:09] <hamitron> the other 8Gb I think will be fine for the OS and disk-cache
[19:12] <MartijnVdS> woop, Intel 510 SSD ordered
[19:12] <hamitron> :)
[19:12] <hamitron> main thing putting me off SSD, is I'm unsure about the life
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: if you use the "discard" mount option to enable TRIM, it should be fine
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> see the 'mount' manpage
[19:13] <hamitron> I'd just be happier if they used the same IC as my RAM
[19:14] <hamitron> there are a few devices that allow use of ram like that
[19:14] <hamitron> but they cost more than they really should
[19:14] <hamitron> :/
[19:14] <MartijnVdS> ramdisks
[19:14] <hamitron> yeh
[19:15] <hamitron> 32Gb would make me happy
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> get a server board for your desktop :)
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> put 64G in it
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> use 32G as a ramdisk
[19:16] <hamitron> certainly an opton
[19:16] <hamitron> :D
[19:16] <hamitron> option
[19:16] <hamitron> but not now I've got my motherboard
[19:16] <hamitron> :/
[19:17] <hamitron> tbh, I never run huge OS
[19:17] <directhex> i want an ssd, but i'm saving money right now
[19:17]  * MartijnVdS is waiting for Ivy Bridge to be released before buying something new
[19:17] <directhex> can't afford such a frivolous thing
[19:17] <directhex> i'll keep ssds on my amazon wishlist though
[19:17] <hamitron> so 16Gb RAM is probably plenty for me
[19:17] <hamitron> haha
[19:17] <hamitron> wishlists
[19:17] <hamitron> :)
[19:17] <hamitron> the newer desktop boards support 32Gb
[19:17] <hamitron> :-o
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: guess why I'm waiting for IB
[19:18] <hamitron> but in all seriousness, I think I could live with 16Gb
[19:18] <hamitron> 6 months ago I had only 2Gb
[19:18] <hamitron> MartijnVdS: more? ;)
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: USB3, more RAM possibilities, SATA600, ... :)
[19:19] <hamitron> I got USB3 and SATA600 (not on the same comp)
[19:19] <hamitron> :/
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> haha
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> that last part is what I'm trying to prevent
[19:20] <hamitron> I figured I only need USB3 on my small media comp
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> I don't really _need_ u3 at all
[19:20] <hamitron> and SATA600 will be for the SSD for my gaming rig
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> SATA600 for SSD will be rocking
[19:21] <hamitron> in raid 0
[19:21] <hamitron> ;)
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> RAID0 is _very_ scary
[19:21] <hamitron> note: a gaming rig
[19:21] <hamitron> :D
[19:21] <directhex> hamitron: i've had a few hundred quid of stuff from my list before now. plus a few hundred quid via paypal
[19:22] <hamitron> I shall continue to do normal work on my sata300
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> directhex: just for packaging banshee? :)
[19:22] <hamitron> and the gaming rig shall have to claim the title of haminator on my network
[19:23] <hamitron> ;)
[19:23] <directhex> MartijnVdS: general mono packaging things, largely my LTS backports repo
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> directhex: cool
[19:23]  * MartijnVdS wishes Banshee was a bit less crashy. Maybe the reinstall will fix it. I hope.
[19:23] <directhex> MartijnVdS: oneiric?
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> directhex: yes
[19:23] <directhex> MartijnVdS: downgrade libsoundtouch
[19:24] <MartijnVdS> where do I get an old version?
[19:24] <directhex> packages.ubuntu.com
[19:24] <MartijnVdS> I have 1.6.0-2 installed.. or available
[19:24] <directhex> 1.6 broke all BPM detection in gstreamer
[19:24] <directhex> which is where banshee is going to be crashing
[19:24] <MartijnVdS> I don't have BPM detection enabled
[19:25] <directhex> doesn't matter afaik. you could delete the BPM plugin too
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> the natty version should be fine, I guess?
[19:25] <directhex> yeah
[19:26] <MartijnVdS> startup is faster
[19:27] <daubers> lo
[19:28] <MartijnVdS> hi daubersman
[19:52] <MartijnVdS> gord: http://i.imgur.com/DUhZo.png
[19:52] <MartijnVdS> gord: (sorry :))
[20:30] <BigRedS> haha
[20:37] <bigcalm> Heh
[21:15] <aquarius> Anybody got any decent recommendations for a fanless Ubuntu desktop PC with a proper disc (i.e., not 8GB of storage or anything) capable of running natty with Unity, for sale in the UK (or shippable thereof) for a couple of hundred quid?
[21:16] <daubers> aquarius: Revo?
[21:16]  * BigRedS wonders if a revo would do
[21:16] <daubers> Ah, sorry, that does have a little fdan in it
[21:16]  * BigRedS also types slowly
[21:16] <aquarius> the revo's a possibility.
[21:17] <aquarius> I was seeing if there were recommendations for others :)
[21:18] <aquarius> (and can the revo run proper unity?)
[21:18] <daubers> no idea, the ions pretty good
[21:19] <daubers> Mines been press ganged as a print server/ldap server, so not really sure :)
[21:19] <bigcalm> aquarius: I recomend the Revo as well
[21:19] <daubers> popey probably has one running something with a gui
[21:19] <bigcalm> I have the 3600, very happy with it
[21:19] <aquarius> also I'm not sure you can *buy* the original revo any more, can you? You can only ge tthe flashy new one which is not £150
[21:19] <aquarius> popey, ping. :)
[21:19] <bigcalm> It runs as my web dev server as well
[21:20] <aquarius> yeah, my dad's already got one of the original revos, and it's great; am now looking for a desktop machine for him (the revo is plugged into the telly). Another revo would be fine, except that the new one's aobut £350, which is a bit steep. I liked the £150 price on the original :)
[21:21]  * daubers totters off to bed
[21:23] <bigcalm> Ah
[21:24] <bigcalm> Find somebody with a surplus ;)
[21:25] <bigcalm> aquarius: http://www.okobe.co.uk/ws/product/Acer+AspireRevo+R3600+Nettop+Computer+Intel+Atom+230+1.6GHz+1GB+RAM+DDR2+SDRAM+160GB+HDD+with+Linux/1000016889?ref=1q4bs
[21:26] <bigcalm> Ugly arse URL
[21:26] <bigcalm> Out of stock, arse
[21:26] <bigcalm> Why can't it just display that without having to click a link to find out?
[21:26] <aquarius> yeah, I can't find it in stock at a decent price anywhere :)
[21:31] <hamitron> aquarius: http://www.ebuyer.com/267867-emachine-er1401-desktop-pt-nbzec-004
[21:31] <hamitron> I've been tempted, not sure how good it is
[21:32] <aquarius> that's damned cheap.
[21:32] <hamitron> yeh
[21:32] <aquarius> hamitron, is that a recommendation?
[21:32] <hamitron> no
[21:32] <hamitron> just highlighting an offer I saw
[21:32] <hamitron> I've never used one
[21:32] <hamitron> ;)
[21:32] <aquarius> woo, it's *certified* http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/201006-5930
[21:33] <hamitron> I'm not sure how good it is though :/
[21:34] <aquarius> well... dual core athlon, 2GB RAM, and a 250gb drive. is it fanless?
[21:34] <hamitron> I know as much as you
[21:34] <hamitron> :)
[21:35] <aquarius> :-)
[21:35] <aquarius> tempted to buy one for myself and give dad my revo, which I *know* works :P
[21:35] <bigcalm> :D
[21:35] <bigcalm> Could do worse
[21:35] <hamitron> I know my parents want 2 small comps for playing music from the server
[21:36] <hamitron> that is why I showed interest
[21:36] <bigcalm> aquarius: I've got a Viglen MPC-L doing bugger all you can have if you want :P
[21:36] <aquarius> bigcalm, o rly? :)
[21:36] <aquarius> new plan: buy no hardware ever again, just live on bigcalm spares ;)
[21:36] <bigcalm> aquarius: I was being silly, but it really is doing nothing, so you are welcome to play with it :)
[21:36] <aquarius> would it be good enough to be a desktop pc for natty?
[21:37] <bigcalm> Not in the slightest
[21:37]  * aquarius laughs
[21:37] <aquarius> never mind then :)
[21:37] <bigcalm> Hence the :P
[21:37] <hamitron> what cpu?
[21:38] <bigcalm> I blame UUPC for a lot of my impulse purchases
[21:38] <aquarius> I am most interested in this thing hamitron mentioned
[21:38] <bigcalm> hamitron: http://www.viglen.co.uk/viglen/Products_Services/Product_Range/Product_file.aspx?eCode=XUBUMPCL&Type_Info=Description&Type=Desktops
[21:39] <hamitron> how much you want for it?
[21:39] <hamitron> probably faster than a load of my junk :/
[21:39] <bigcalm> Are you serious?
[21:39] <hamitron> yeh
[21:39] <bigcalm> o.O
[21:40] <bigcalm> I paid just over 100 quid when it was released and mentioned on the podcast
[21:40] <bigcalm> Are you going to oggcamp?
[21:40] <hamitron> no :/
[21:40] <bigcalm> Humm
[21:41] <hamitron> can't really go spending that sorta money either
[21:41] <hamitron> haha
[21:41] <bigcalm> Do you know anybody near you who is near you?
[21:41] <bigcalm> I wouldn't want what I paid for it
[21:41] <bigcalm> Was thinking in the region of 35 quid
[21:41] <hamitron> I know plenty of people near me who are near me
[21:41] <hamitron> ;)
[21:41] <bigcalm> Do you know anybody going who is near you
[21:41] <hamitron> no :/
[21:41] <bigcalm> Damn this red wine :P
[21:42] <hamitron> haha
[21:42] <bigcalm> Where are you?
[21:42] <hamitron> East Yorkshire
[21:42] <hamitron> you'd have to give a price with postage I think
[21:42] <hamitron> :/
[21:44] <bigcalm> If you really are serious about it (look at the specs of the box), then I'll look into it
[21:44] <hamitron> I'm trying to find a value atm
[21:44] <hamitron> haha
[21:45] <hamitron> my googling skills are failing me
[21:46] <hamitron> 400mhz amd geode
[21:46] <hamitron> 512mb ram
[21:48] <bigcalm> Good innit? :)
[21:50] <hamitron> my latest toy is only a SIS 300mhz cpu with 64mb ram ;)
[21:50] <hamitron> so yeh
[21:50] <hamitron> :D
[21:50] <bigcalm> You have me in shock
[21:50] <hamitron> got it on boffer
[21:50] <hamitron> ;)
[21:51] <hamitron> that VXL Percio
[21:52] <hamitron> bigcalm: I've had to drop ubuntu from my plans, so the i586 does not bother me
[21:52] <bigcalm> hamitron: I have Ubuntu server on my Viglen MPC-L
[21:53] <hamitron> 10.04 I assume?
[21:53] <bigcalm> Yes
[21:53] <bigcalm> Erm
[21:53] <bigcalm> Possibly
[21:53] <bigcalm> It's been a while
[21:53] <bigcalm> !LTS
[21:53] <hamitron> well, I think 10.04 is the last to run on i586 sadly
[21:53] <bigcalm> I've upgraded my parents' box to 10.04.3
[21:53] <hamitron> :/
[21:53] <hamitron> I'm really cut up about it
[21:53] <bigcalm> So, possibly 9.10 on the one I have
[21:54] <hamitron> ;)
[21:55] <hamitron> does pop-ey run one?
[21:55] <bigcalm> I think he has a couple or so and they are gathering dust now
[21:55] <bigcalm> It really isn't all that great
[21:56] <hamitron> well, I still use a p120 with 24Mb ram
[21:56] <hamitron> ;)
[21:56] <hamitron> so I can live with less power
[21:56] <hamitron> I do intend to use nothing below 300mhz by the end of this year though
[21:58] <hamitron> can get one newly delivered for £72
[21:58] <hamitron> :-o
[21:58] <hamitron> wish I'd seen these before I got something with a SIS cpu
[22:02] <bigcalm> I'm tempted to see if I can put 10.04 on this one now before shifting it. I'll have to blank the hdd anyway
[22:02] <bigcalm> Do you want server or gui on it?
[22:02] <hamitron> I won't be using ubuntu on it tbh
[22:02] <bigcalm> I see
[22:02] <hamitron> it looks underspeced for proper use with such a big OS
[22:03] <hamitron> I'm sure it can run, just not as well as other things
[22:03]  * hamitron digs himself out of hole in a ubuntu channel
[22:03] <bigcalm> It came with a linux distro on it, but cannie remember which one
[22:03] <hamitron> Xubuntu according to website
[22:04] <hamitron> http://www.viglen.co.uk/webmail/5star-offers.html
[22:05] <bigcalm> Haha, they recommend putting windows 7 on it
[22:05] <bigcalm> That's funny
[22:05] <hamitron> yeh
[22:05] <hamitron> :)
[22:06] <hamitron> what do i need to fix it to the back of a monitor?
[22:06] <bigcalm> A VESA mount
[22:06] <bigcalm> Though I've never used one, so my info stops there
[22:06] <popey> Evening all!
[22:07] <bigcalm> Ah! It's a popey
[22:07] <hamitron> :)
[22:08]  * hamitron grumbles at the price of Vesa mount arms
[22:09] <hamitron> get a monitor for the same price
[22:09] <hamitron> :/
[22:10] <hamitron> but yeh, bigcalm, I am interested (for the right price)
[22:10] <hamitron> ;)
[22:10] <hamitron> if you are ofc
[22:11] <hamitron> cuz if I was you, I'd probably keep it for the amount of money it is. but I am a bit crazy when it comes to collecting junk and toys
[22:11] <hamitron> :)
[22:13] <bigcalm> hamitron: I have far too much that is doing nothing. Need to make space for new kit ;)
[22:14] <hamitron> :D
[22:17] <hamitron> if I like it, will phone them guys up and see if I can buy 2 more
[22:18] <hamitron> if can't get more, just a nice toy (for me) :D
[22:19] <bigcalm> What would you do with 3?
[22:19] <hamitron> have them in 3 different rooms
[22:19] <hamitron> jukebox style
[22:19] <bigcalm> Fair enough
[22:20] <bigcalm> Do you have a USB CDrom drive or USB memory stick?
[22:20] <hamitron> got a memory stick
[22:20] <bigcalm> I would suggest installing from a USB CDrom drive as grub likes to install itself on the USB memory stick
[22:20] <hamitron> does it not support PXE?
[22:20] <bigcalm> ?
[22:21] <hamitron> netbooting
[22:21] <bigcalm> No idea. Not something I've looked into
[22:21] <hamitron> not an issue if it doesn't
[22:21] <hamitron> but that is how I boot all my installs
[22:23] <hamitron> that or floppy
[22:23] <hamitron> ;)
[22:36] <Hornet-> anyone active who's on virgin media?
[22:38] <popey> Hornet: yup, me
[22:39] <Hornet> allo popey
[22:39] <Hornet> por favor senor, ping www.horriblesubs.org and www.nyaa.eu ?
[22:39] <Hornet> not sure if VM's doing funny business
[22:40] <popey> its not vm
[22:40] <popey> I cant get to it from my server in london
[22:40] <Hornet> well, people in CA, and AUS, can access them both
[22:40] <Hornet> but fair enough
[22:40] <popey> dns doesnt resolve
[22:40] <directhex> nothing for me on Be
[22:40] <Hornet> possibly DNS or routing fun and games then
[22:40] <Hornet> hrm
[22:41] <directhex> oh, nyaa.eu works
[22:41] <directhex> nothing for horriblesubs
[22:41] <directhex> tenga are "stress toys" now?
[22:41]  * Hornet adblocks
[22:41] <Hornet> it's a common euphamism
[22:41] <Hornet> along with hello kitty 'massagers'
[22:42] <Hornet> ah well
[22:42] <Hornet> cheers sirs
[22:44] <bigcalm> I think it might be time to find some sleep
[22:44] <bigcalm> Toodles :)