[00:00] <LaserJock> ScottK: that's fine, I can file it upstream. I just wasn't sure what the proper place was so I thought I'd ask :-)
[00:00] <ScottK> K
[00:01] <ScottK> micahg: Technically what's going on is an abuse of conflicts.  That's not what it's for.
[00:06] <LaserJock> well, it's kind of a bummer that KDE has the ability to display the notifications from GNOME apps but then I shouldn't have ubuntu-desktop installed
[00:18] <micahg> ScottK: maybe a thread on debian-devel would be worthwhile?
[00:20] <micahg> I don't know enough about the notification daemon to say one way of the other
[00:51] <ScottK> micahg: Look at Debian Policy.  It's pretty clear about conflicts.
[01:20] <claydoh> ScottK: is kdepim testing in oneiric, or is there a chance 11.10 will revert to the old version? trying to figure out the wording
[01:20] <claydoh> I assume it is going to be by default at this point
[01:20] <ScottK> It is.
[01:21] <claydoh> kk
[01:21] <ScottK> It would take a pretty massive disaster to cause a revert.
[01:21] <ScottK> I'm not even sure how we'd do it.
[01:21] <claydoh> its not too bad, overall but I expect user hiccups
[01:22]  * claydoh needs to test it on his old laptop to see how much akonadi slows it down :)
[01:22] <claydoh> i am not seeing too many issues with upgraders in kububtuforums or kde forums, tho there are some
[01:55] <micahg> ScottK: I think that some consider the notification-daemon something that can only have one at a time installed which you're suggesting is wrong
[01:55] <micahg> I think the question is whether or not it falls into that category
[01:56] <ScottK> "Can only have one installed" generally means either filename conflicts or things like MTAs that sieze port25.
[01:56] <ScottK> If the Gnome/Ubuntu thing would only run when it's native workspace is running, problem solved.
[01:57] <micahg> true, but that's not the case ATM
[01:57] <ScottK> Alpha 3 ISOs up for testing.
[01:57] <ScottK> Right, but that's the bug, not the lack of conflicts.
[01:57] <micahg> the daemons would need to be fixed to only run in their own env unless their the only one
[01:57] <micahg> the second one should be they're
[01:58] <ScottK> I'm pretty sure the KDE one only runs in plasma.
[01:58] <micahg> well, the gnome one runs everywhere
[01:58] <ScottK> Sounds like standard Gnome is the OS, so we don't have to care about anything else.
[01:58] <ScottK> cf recent discussions about systemsettings.
[01:59] <micahg> this comes from Debian, it's not Ubuntu specific AFAIK
[01:59] <ScottK> If it's libnotify, then it's Gnome.
[01:59] <ScottK> apachelogger: Are you going to the desktop summit?
[02:00] <claydoh> ScottK:  https://wiki.kubuntu.org/OneiricOcelot/Alpha3/Kubuntu
[02:01] <ScottK> claydoh: Thanks.
[02:01] <claydoh> 	 can add more tomorrow, but it will be later
[02:01] <Daskreech> micahg: You can't install multiple -desktop packages anymore ?
[02:01] <claydoh> I am lucky to even have a partial day off this week :(
[02:02] <micahg> Daskreech: not ubuntu/xubuntu at least
[02:02] <claydoh> feeding hungry shoppers during back-to-school sales makes christmas shopping crowds feel small
[02:03] <Daskreech> micahg: on what basis?
[02:04] <micahg> bug 737324
[02:04]  * Daskreech snorts
[02:04]  * micahg used to do it all the time, but there's bad interactions now unfortunately, even xubuntu+unity doesn't behave properly
[02:06] <Daskreech> The language of that seems less like "We need to fix this soon" and more like " Well some user won't install two packages at the same time so no user should do so"
[02:10] <micahg> Daskreech: it's more like there are more important things to fix, patches welcome
[03:01] <LaserJock> should notifications show up for resuming? I get both a power management and network management notifications on resume
[03:01] <LaserJock> I didn't think that happened before upgrading to 4.7
[03:06] <ScottK> You should get those.
[03:18] <LaserJock> ScottK: really? that's kinda annoying
[03:19] <ScottK> Wait.
[03:19] <ScottK> Actually I think we got those before and they went away in 4.6.
[03:19] <ScottK> So I believe that would be a regression of some kind.
[03:19] <LaserJock> I see
[03:19] <LaserJock> they were supposed to go away in 4.6+?
[03:19]  * ScottK suspends to see.
[03:21] <ScottK> In 4.6 I get networking system disabled and screen is being locked.
[03:21] <ScottK> Nothing about resume.
[03:21] <ScottK> So I'd call it a bug.
[03:21]  * ScottK wonders if afiestas can help us with that.
[03:22] <LaserJock> it's seems weird  to get notifications just from resuming
[03:24] <ScottK> KDE's notifications can be 'a bit verbose'.
[03:25] <LaserJock> I do want notifications of a network disconnecting, but it seems a bit obvious when resuming
[03:25] <LaserJock> even more so with screen locking
[03:26] <ScottK> I find the icon with the x enough notification the network is dead, but everyone no doubt has their own view.
[03:26] <LaserJock> right
[03:26] <LaserJock> there are good icons
[03:26] <LaserJock> seems a bit much to have notifications
[03:26] <ScottK> I think those are controllable.
[03:27] <LaserJock> I can turn off the whole app
[03:27] <ScottK> If you find there's a setting for that, we can change the default.
[03:27] <LaserJock> *notifications for
[03:28] <LaserJock> "Network management disabled" is the only action that is applied in Network Management
[03:28] <LaserJock> *action that has notifications
[03:30] <LaserJock> the description says "The network management subsystem was stopped or restarted"
[03:30] <LaserJock> that seems like something that you wouldn't necessary want a popup for
[03:59] <ScottK> Yep
[04:02] <ScottK> If you can diff ~/.kde/share/config/networkmanagementrc with it enabled and disabled, we can eliminate it from the default.
[05:04] <eMyller> damn i wish i could help on the kubuntu web stuff @ todo
[05:05] <eMyller> i'm a web developer with time issues. :(
[05:17] <LaserJock> ScottK: bug #820183
[07:45] <bambee> morning
[08:04] <debfx> micahg: how is the gnome notification-daemon started? dbus activation?
[08:23] <jussi> is there 4.7 for natty yet? 
[08:24] <ulysses> in the backports ppa it is
[08:25] <felimwhiteley> Any of you folks getting weird taskbar issues? I'm getting 2 rows even when setting it to force 1, also the taskbar only has 4 apps on it so shouldn't be triggeringanyway, plus it's putting on app on far right another one space to right as if there was a phantom other one on the bar.. I'll screenshot it
[08:35] <jussi> ulysses: thank you
[08:35] <jussi> (I am upgrading now)
[08:35] <ejat> jussi :) 
[08:58] <markey_nokialyze> re
[09:41] <Quintasan> !info libalure1
[09:41] <Quintasan> !info libalure1 oneiric
[09:41] <Quintasan> ScottK: Can I have a sync from Debian? ^
[09:49] <apachelogger> ScottK: yes
[09:50] <apachelogger> ScottK: also I propose that I try to get a mobile meeting from/while DS
[09:50] <apachelogger> otherwise I'll just slap the people with my wisdom until they fall over or something
[11:21] <mgraesslin> apachelogger: ping?
[11:50] <apachelogger> mgraesslin: pong
[11:51] <mgraesslin> apachelogger: hey, I have an audio setup problem with phonon :-)
[11:52] <mgraesslin> I have wonderful audio in vlc, but with phonon-vlc there is nothing
[11:52] <mgraesslin> any ideas?
[11:54] <apachelogger> nothing? :O
[11:54] <apachelogger> mgraesslin: Does the progress slider move?
[11:54] <apachelogger> mgraesslin: Also, do you use pulse?
[11:55] <mgraesslin> I click on the test button and there is just no audio
[11:55] <mgraesslin> and no I do not use pulse (at least I hope so)
[11:55] <apachelogger> Oh never mind the test button.
[11:56] <apachelogger> Also you should use PA :P
[11:56] <apachelogger> Particularly with phonon vlc.
[11:56] <mgraesslin> no PA is for me no option
[11:56] <mgraesslin> I use SPDIF output
[11:56] <apachelogger> maelcum fixed some ALSA only stuff only yesterday.
[11:56] <apachelogger> The device enum stuff is epic fail.
[11:57] <mgraesslin> is there any way that phonon-vlc just uses the settings from vlc?
[11:58] <apachelogger> Nope.
[11:58] <apachelogger> Well, not WRT audio device selection anyway.
[12:03] <ScottK> Quintasan: File a sync bug.  I can't do those directly.
[12:04] <ScottK> apachelogger: Can you talk to Plasma people about the problem of plasma-netbook not getting started until after applications started from a saved session?
[12:04] <ScottK> That's the cause of the notifications problem Laserjock was having and many other ills.
[12:12] <ScottK> We could really use some ISO testing.
[12:15] <yofel> I'll do some in a bit
[12:15] <ScottK> Great.
[12:32] <ScottK> Tm_T: Are you up for some powerpc ISO testing?
[12:36] <debfx> ScottK: do you know if we can avoid pulling xterm onto the cd?
[12:36] <ScottK> Should be able to.
[12:36] <debfx> I think the problem is that xorg depends on xterm | x-terminal-emulator and is seeded in desktop-common
[12:37] <ScottK> xterm is seeded or xorg?
[12:37] <debfx> xorg
[12:37] <ScottK> Sounds like a germinate issue we should discuss with cjwatson as IIRC konsole provides x-terminal-emulator.
[12:41] <yofel> it does
[12:42] <debfx> ok
[12:43] <ScottK> debfx: Will you do this?
[12:51] <debfx> yep
[12:53] <mgraesslin> apachelogger: just for the record: audio working with phonon-gstreamer
[12:56] <jussi> oh wow, I love you kde 4.7!
[12:56] <jussi> Sput: my quassel now gets backlog in like 3 seconds, instead of about 90...
[12:56] <davmor2> jussi: put kde 4.7 down you don't know where it's been
[12:56] <Sput> jussi: what did you change?
[12:56] <jussi> davmor2: but, but, she's beautiful!
[12:57] <jussi> Sput: installed kde 4.7 from backports ppa...
[12:57] <Sput> KDE should not have any influence on quassel's performance
[12:57] <Sput> did you upgrade postgres by chance?
[12:58] <jussi> Sput: err, I havent changed anything on the server (to my knowledge)
[12:58] <jussi> tsimpson: also admins that server
[12:58] <Sput> interesting :)
[12:58] <jussi> Sput: could it be an updated Qt thing? 
[12:58] <Sput> I wouldn't think so
[12:59] <Sput> usually backlog fetch is limited by the database
[12:59] <Sput> but who knows what was broken
[12:59] <jussi> Sput: yeah, it just always had this big delay before it started
[12:59] <jussi> getting it was always quick, once it started
[13:36] <apachelogger> mgraesslin: yes, talk to maelcum, he fixed something in phonon vlc yesterday... git master I think
[13:48] <Quintasan> now I has 8GB memory
[13:57] <yofel> Quintasan: yay, now add this to your fstab ;)
[13:57] <yofel> tmpfs /var/cache/pbuilder/build tmpfs rw,size=7G 0 0
[13:59] <ScottK> Sigh.
[13:59] <ScottK> Kmail is total fail so far.
[13:59] <Tm_T> ScottK: ppc-iso? yes
[14:00] <ScottK> steveire: We have a bunch of akonadi crash bugs in Launchpad that it would be really helpful if we could get an upstream person to look at and see what's worth forwarding to bugs.kde.org.
[14:00] <ScottK> Tm_T: yes.
[14:00] <ScottK> apachelogger: Can you teach akonadi that it should talk to dr. konqi instead of apport when it crashes?
[14:22] <ScottK> OK.  Kmail2 is officially too hard for me.
[14:23] <ScottK> Kmail is one of the reasons I started using KDE ...
[14:23]  * ScottK installs claws-mail.
[14:29] <ScottK> Bam.  Configured and working.
[14:32] <apachelogger> ScottK: VERY difficult
[14:32] <ScottK> apachelogger: OK.  Then we need a minion to review bugs and forward them.
[14:32] <apachelogger> the only reason drkonqi works for kapps is because it is tightly integrated into kapplication
[14:33] <apachelogger> it is not like you go oh, crash, lets start drkonqi :S
[14:33] <apachelogger> ScottK: bug minions we need anyway
[14:33] <ScottK> There's a large stack of untriaged crash bugs sitting there waiting.
[14:33] <apachelogger> I was kinda thinking the dark winged duck was saying that he would look for people...
[14:33] <ScottK> Convenient for him he's not around.
[14:34] <ScottK> Maybe valorie knows someone?
[14:34]  * yofel is still trying to figure out how to set the trash folder of his IMAP acc. as trash for that account
[14:34] <yofel> akonadi doesn't seem to like me
[14:34] <ScottK> I can even get kmail2 configured.
[14:34] <ScottK> It complains it can't reach akonadi and dies.
[14:35] <yofel> never happened here
[14:35] <ScottK> (which I can confirm is actually running)
[14:35] <ScottK> It's downloaded my mail and just wants some GUI to talk to.
[14:36] <ScottK> Getting claws-mail working took about a minute.
[14:39] <yofel> anyone an idea why digikam can't use the geolocation plugin in oneiric btw.?
[14:39] <yofel> it just says "Geolocation using Marble not available"
[14:40] <ScottK> Dif we build marble against the right libs for that?
[14:40] <ScottK> Dif/Did
[15:17] <ScottK> maco: I was able to do a Kubuntu live install. \o/
[15:17] <maco> yay!
[15:17] <maco> so when i get back from pennsic i can start working on the accessibility part, now that the cd isnt crashing
[15:18] <maco> (no way am i getting any ubuntu stuff done between now and feature freeze. i'm leavng for the 16th century on saturday)
[15:22] <Quintasan> Ahahahahahah!
[15:23] <Quintasan> yofel: Now I can buildz Qt in tmpfs too
[15:23] <yofel> :D
[15:24]  * yofel does some DVD iso testing
[15:25] <Quintasan> ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/820441
[15:25] <yofel> can't you sync that yourself?
[15:27] <yofel> *sigh* - akonadi_nepomuk_email_feeder is using ~900MB RAM again...
[15:27] <Quintasan> yofel: Can I?
[15:27] <yofel> Quintasan: from what I see libalure1 is in universe
[15:27]  * Quintasan noticed there is no clear outline on what one can do with -dev
[15:27] <Quintasan> OR I failed to find one
[15:28] <ScottK> Quintasan: Did you test build the new version?
[15:28] <Quintasan> ScottK: I did for one-eye-rick
[15:28] <ScottK> It would be useful to mention that in the bug
[15:29] <Quintasan> Sir, yes sir!
[15:31] <Quintasan> ScottK: Can I actually sync that myself or I need some other magic to do that?
[15:31] <ScottK> Do we have a sync button now?
[15:32] <Quintasan> *shrug*
[15:32]  * Quintasan looks
[15:32] <ScottK> Quintasan: Check and make sure sludge still builds with the new alure.
[15:58] <Quintasan> ScottK: It does
[15:59] <ScottK> Quintasan: OK.  Then since it's in Universe, you can approve the bug and subscribe ubuntu-archive.
[15:59] <ScottK> (make it confirmed)
[16:00] <ScottK> In the future, requestsync is really handy for such things.
[16:54] <_Groo_> auehauehuahe apachelogger you are the man! :D
[16:55] <_Groo_> see http://paste.ubuntu.com/658043/
[16:55] <_Groo_> i looooove errors :D
[16:58] <jussi> o/ all. 
[16:59] <jussi> Just found an error with the 4.7 upgrade packaging
[16:59] <jussi> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/amarok_2%3a2.4.1-1ubuntu1~natty1~ppa2_i386.deb (--unpack):
[16:59] <jussi>  trying to overwrite '/usr/share/kde4/apps/kconf_update/amarok.upd', which is also in package amarok-common 2:2.4.0.90-0ubuntu1~maverick1~ppa2
[16:59] <ScottK> jussi: amarok is not part of 4.7.0
[17:00] <jussi> ScottK: hrm... 
[17:00] <jussi> its in the backports ppa though?
[17:00] <ScottK> Yes, just not 4.7.0
[17:00] <jussi> oh
[17:00] <jussi> well the upgrade had an issue there, I assume people want to see that error.
[17:01] <ScottK> Yes.
[17:02] <ScottK> I guess debfx should fix his pacakge.
[17:08] <micahg> debfx: I don't really know how the gnome notification-daemon works
[17:08]  * debfx blames that maverick beta backport
[17:09] <debfx> micahg: I guess the ubuntu and xubuntu notification-daemons both use dbus activation and therefore have to conflict
[17:10] <micahg> debfx: ah, does plasma not do that?
[17:10] <debfx> nope, basically it autostarts its notification daemon
[17:19] <micahg> ah, I guess it doesn't need to conflict then
[17:20] <micahg> but should probably provide it at least
[17:23] <ScottK> IIRC it does
[17:28] <yofel> apachelogger: got an ETA when http://wm161.net/2011/08/01/mind-the-gap/ will end up in a phonon-gst release?
[17:30]  * yofel gives bambee a hug in the meanwhile :)
[17:31] <ScottK> Speaking of which ...
[17:32] <ScottK> bambee: We should schedule a Kubuntu Council meeting to review your Kubuntu membership application.  Did you finish it yet?
[17:34] <bambee> ScottK: it's finish, it's on the wiki :)
[17:34] <bambee> yofel: hehe thanks :D
[17:34] <ScottK> bambee: Excellent.  Can you make up a Doodle poll and send it to kubuntu-devel so we can pick a time?
[17:34] <ScottK> yofel can help you figure out how if you need it.
[17:35] <bambee> yes, some help is welcome :)
[17:35] <yofel> pretty intuitive, don't forget to turn on time zone support though
[17:37] <bambee> ScottK: the problem is , I am absent the next week , from the 6th august to the 13 th august :\
[17:37] <bambee> (I am on vacation and not at home during a week)
[17:37] <ScottK> OK.
[17:37] <bambee> so we can schedule a meeting friday.. or in two weeks
[17:38] <ScottK> Try one for Friday.
[17:38] <bambee> :D
[17:50] <bambee> http://www.doodle.com/f3v9k6vpycesgm2b
[17:51] <ScottK> bambee: email kubuntu-devel too.
[17:51] <bambee> ok
[17:51] <yofel> bambee: the first time appears as 8PM for me, correct?
[17:52] <bambee> yofel: yes, 8PM UTC
[17:52] <yofel> ah UTC, the page doesn't say that
[17:52] <yofel> doodle has time zone support too btw.
[17:53] <ScottK> Oh.
[17:53] <ScottK> Need to redo mine.
[17:53] <bambee> yofel: refresh now
[17:53] <bambee> (I added a comment :p)
[17:53] <yofel> thanks
[17:53] <ScottK> darkwingduck, apachelogger, Riddell: ^^^
[17:53] <maco> bambee: are you also going to be at Pennsic??
[17:53] <bambee> maco: gné?
[17:53] <maco> guess that means no
[17:54] <bambee> I did not understand your question
[17:54] <darkwingduck> ScottK: Looking at it and doing the UTC to my zone math :)
[17:54] <bambee> maco: ^
[17:54]  * yofel should be in berlin by 5pm
[17:55] <maco> bambee: im going to be gone the same days too, but i'll be in a tent with this group http://www.flame.org/~explorer/album/pennsic-27/arial/pennsic-27-207.jpg  in this atmosphere http://www.housetaivassalama.com/Pennsic06-3.jpg
[17:56] <bambee> ah :)
[17:57] <ScottK> Fixed.
[18:02]  * bambee poke apachelogger
[18:02] <DarkwingDuck> Okay, updated.
[18:06] <bambee> apachelogger: http://doodle.com/f3v9k6vpycesgm2b
[19:10] <bambee> Princess Butterfly ? lool :D
[19:11] <DarkwingDuck> I saw that too
[19:11] <DarkwingDuck> :D
[19:14] <bambee> hehe :)
[19:17] <ScottK> No wondering who that is.
[19:45] <yofel> ScottK: for some reason we have the quickaccess widget on the desktop, but after installing alternate i386 'plasma-widget-quickaccess' isn't installed
[19:46] <ScottK> yofel: I already filed a bug about this.
[19:46] <yofel> ok
[19:46] <ScottK> http://launchpad.net/bugs/805960
[19:46] <ScottK> Err, actually I found a bug apachelogger had filed.
[19:47] <yofel> k
[19:47]  * yofel looks for a bug about wrong keyboard layout after install
[20:00] <apachelogger> somone could upload KDS I suppose
[20:00] <yofel> now let's find out why the blur effect doesn't work...
[20:00] <ScottK> New candidate ISOs up for testing.
[20:01] <ScottK> apachelogger: After Alpha 3 is out.
[20:01] <ScottK> We need a new knds too.
[20:01] <yofel> ah, desktop isos are done :)
[21:19] <ScottK> Need some testing people ....
[21:56] <ScottK> steveire: I'm having a severe problem with kmail configuration and focus stealing with plasma-netbook.  Who would be the best kdepim person to discuss that with?
[22:00] <ScottK> No taco boy when you need him.
[22:01] <ScottK> WTF "Allow the installation of untrusted packages" by default.
[22:11] <ScottK> New DVD up.  Needs testing.
[22:23] <ScottK> claydoh: Bug #820638 needs to be documented in known issues.
[22:25] <yofel> O_O
[22:28] <claydoh> ScottK: lol, can't even get in the door :)
[22:29] <claydoh> though adding an item sure beats my work day - *all* the windows in the restaurant had rocks  thrown through them early this am, and then both refrigerators for the sandwich stations died
[22:29] <ScottK> Ouch.
[22:29] <claydoh> yet we were able to open for biz almost on time
[22:29] <ScottK> Nice
[22:30] <claydoh> glass everywhere literally
[22:30] <ScottK> Wow.
[22:31] <claydoh> ya, and no evidence on who did it, tho I could name a couple of suspects
[22:31] <DarkwingDuck> ScottK: I'll be able to test soon.
[22:31] <claydoh> so now it is Miller Time
[22:32] <ScottK> DarkwingDuck: Great.  Did you respond to the KC doodle poll?
[22:32] <claydoh> tho i don't drink
[22:32] <DarkwingDuck> I was the second one to add a name.
[22:32] <DarkwingDuck> 'cept I did it with my real name. :D
[22:33] <bambee> ScottK: I'll be able to test tomorrow, in the morning
[22:34] <ScottK> Great.
[22:34] <ScottK> Oh, sure enough.
[22:51] <ScottK> jussi: The current ops grants in this channel for KC membership are out of date, I was wondering if you would update them?
[23:11] <ScottK> steveire: I filed KDE bug 279336.