/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/08/03/#ubuntu-uk.txt

=== webpigeon_laptop is now known as Guest80704
AlanBellmorning all06:45
brobostigonmorning AlanBell06:45
livingdaylightanyone watch the piece still currently playing on BBC1 about copyright?06:53
daubersMorning07:11
livingdaylightmorning07:14
livingdaylightvery quiet this morning07:17
livingdaylightIt was yesterday suggested that my hd could be dying. Hence I backed up and transferred my files to saftey. However, before simply binning my 500gb hd I thought I'd run the defect detector on the live cd and it came back with zero  errors? Is this a reliable test to tell me about the health of the hd?07:18
MartijnVdS"defect detector"?07:19
MartijnVdSdo you mean the SMART long test in the Disk Utility (palimpsest)07:19
livingdaylightMartijnVdS: on the live cd there is a Memory test and test for hd, no?07:20
livingdaylightI forget what it's called exactly, but it checks the hd for defects afaik.07:20
MartijnVdSlivingdaylight: As far as I know that  checks the CD for defects07:20
livingdaylightahhh, okay,.... that's not what I need, lol07:21
livingdaylightHow can I test the disc before chucking it in the bin?07:21
MartijnVdSlivingdaylight: start the live environment, then start the disk utility, and have it do a "Long" or "Extended" test07:21
livingdaylightnot the disc, the hard drive, sorrry07:21
MartijnVdSlivingdaylight: ^^07:21
* livingdaylight needs a coffee07:22
dauberslivingdaylight: SMART is not necessarily a good indicator of disk health :(07:23
MartijnVdSdaubers: SMART saying your disk is bad _is_ a good indicator07:23
MartijnVdSdaubers: SMART saying your disk is good isn't :)07:23
daubersMartijnVdS: Well.. sometimes. I've seen a couple of disks flip from "bad" to "good" within a few minutes07:23
daubersstupid smart07:23
livingdaylightso, SMART can say the disc is good but it is still in fact bad?07:23
dauberslivingdaylight: Yes, sometimes07:24
MartijnVdSdaubers: sure, but once you get a "bad" signal, you replace the disk07:24
livingdaylightnot very smart :s07:24
daubersMartijnVdS: Assuming the disk hasn't already just failed before it's gone to a "bad" state07:24
livingdaylightEither my hd died or Ubuntu had a meltdown for the first time  in all the years that I've been using it.07:25
dauberslivingdaylight: use the tool described above and have a look, SMART may tell you the disk is bad, it may not :)07:25
livingdaylightis there another, more reliable test?07:26
dauberslivingdaylight: As rubbish as SMART is, it's the best tool for this kind of thing at the moment07:26
livingdaylightok07:26
livingdaylightI'd rather not chuck a 500gb hd, on a whim07:26
livingdaylightI'm probably just in denial still about its death07:27
livingdaylighta little traumatic07:27
dauberslivingdaylight: You get used to them after a while07:27
MooDoohello all07:45
BigRedSG'morning MooDoo07:46
MooDoo:)07:50
dauberso/07:50
livingdaylightnot sure I found and used SMART in Disc Utility or not. But there are some bad sectors. Does that make an entire hd unusable?07:58
BigRedSnah, that's normal08:00
BigRedSbut a lot of bad sectors, or a high rate of allocating bad sectors, suggests it's going to die soon08:01
BigRedSsome, though, not so bad. Zero is better, though08:01
gordsome bad sectors isn't that normal ;)08:03
gordyou'll want to run bad blocks on the drive at least to stop the bad sectors from being used08:03
* BigRedS might just have low standards and good backups...08:06
JamesTaitGood morning all!08:09
livingdaylight2Where /how do I run bad blocks?08:10
livingdaylight2Using irc client on smart phone for the first time08:11
livingdaylight2I is like :)08:11
MartijnVdSgord: drives remap bad sectors. As soon as it runs out of remapping sectors, I replace the disk usually08:15
gordMartijnVdS, in my experience, not automatically08:16
MartijnVdSgord: I'm paranoid ;)08:16
bigcalmMorning peeps :)08:18
MartijnVdSit's biggie calms :P08:18
MooDoomorning pah!08:22
livingdaylight2There is a poem called fish by Mary Ann Hoberman and I can't read it because of"rights issues" as I'm outside of the usa - ridiculous08:26
AlanBellfibre to the cabinet about to be installed \o/08:27
MartijnVdSAlanBell: \o/08:27
MooDooo/08:29
dogmatic69livingdaylight2: proxy?08:30
gordhave to use the stupid revo keyboard today because ubuntu forgot how to talk to my wireless one :(08:32
livingdaylight2Auto complete difficult on Android orc, with swype anyway.08:37
selinuxiummornign all   o/08:47
shaunooh that's just typical.  an hour after I wipe my phone, gmail decides it's "that time of the month" and asks me to use the authenticator thingie08:50
MooDoolol08:53
selinuxiumTried to install Moneydance from their deb. It come up with the warning as described in the following link. http://help.infinitekind.com/discussions/switching-to-moneydance-from-microsoft-money/1370-installing-deb-on-ubuntu  Is it just me or is just using gdebi to circumnavigate the warning not the way forward...08:53
shaunohopefully he meant what he said about looking into fixing it08:56
shaunobut yeah.  teaching people to ignore spurious warnings isn't cool08:56
popeyGood morning08:59
MartijnVdS\o popey08:59
bigcalmGood moaning08:59
MartijnVdSpopey: I ordered my SSD -- http://www.anandtech.com/show/4202/the-intel-ssd-510-review08:59
MooDooMartijnVdS: putting ubuntu on it?09:00
gordtrying to type on this backup keyboard is hard =\ i keep taking screenshots or paging down or opening menus... its basically like if mr bean used a computer09:01
MartijnVdSMooDoo: Yes (and I know about the "discard" mount option)09:01
MooDooMartijnVdS: discard what?09:02
MooDooMartijnVdS: i've not used that with my ssd09:03
MartijnVdSMooDoo: it tells the SSD about which regions are "empty" so it can use its internal wear-leveling more efficiently09:06
MartijnVdSMooDoo: i.e. when you delete files09:06
MartijnVdSwhich means it should (note: should) last longer09:08
MooDooMartijnVdS: ok, but readin around that was only needed in 10.10, does 11.04 already have this?09:08
MartijnVdSMooDoo: in oneiric, in the "mount" manual page, it says it's disabled by default09:09
MooDooah09:09
MartijnVdSMooDoo: on natty it's not even in the manual09:09
daubersMartijnVdS: I thought that was dealt with automagically by TRIM these days?09:11
MartijnVdSdaubers: I thought so, but not according to that manpage09:11
daubersodd09:12
MartijnVdShttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIM#Discard_parameter_in_Linux09:12
MooDooi don't think it's anything to worry about, my ssd works very well :D09:12
MartijnVdSbut will it in a few years? :)09:13
MooDoo;)09:13
MooDoowell guess what i'm doing when i get home :D09:14
ubuntuuk-planet[Paul Mellors] Vmware + NAS - http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/08/vmware-nas.html09:15
MooDoooh rats, that wasn't supposed to go on the planet....grrrr post tags09:15
bigcalmOooo, finally a working version of android for the Joggler?09:20
livingdaylight2Aloha09:20
MooDoohi livingdaylight209:20
livingdaylight2Hi09:21
livingdaylight2Swype doesn't have a tab key09:22
BigRedSlivingdaylight2: is this in a terminal emulator?09:23
BigRedSwhich one are you using? If you tap the screen just above teh keyboard in irssi it gives some buttons for other keys09:23
BigRedSI think tab's in there09:23
* selinuxium still loving my Galaxy S II09:24
bigcalmAndchat is my irc client of choice09:24
BigRedSer, not irssi, connectbot09:24
BigRedSI just use 'irssi connectbot' so I forget it's not called irssi09:24
livingdaylight2Using Yaaic and swype09:25
livingdaylight2Maybe using the wrong client then, or keyboard :)09:26
bigcalmIn andchat, pressing search after a few letters will do nick autocomplete09:33
bigcalmVery handy09:33
andylockranok, this is saner09:34
* andylockran was in #ubuntu and all sorts of silly stuff was happening there09:35
selinuxiumbigcalm, Android? Joggler? where?  :)09:36
bigcalmselinuxium: https://twitter.com/#!/popey/status/9867962366309580809:41
popey:D09:41
popeyworks really nicely09:41
bigcalmIt might be what gets me to turn my Joggler back on09:41
popey:D09:44
livingdaylight2Andylockran such as?09:45
andylockranlivingdaylight2: guy suggesting he was on drugs and trolling09:46
selinuxiumCheers popey, bigcalm09:47
* popey lols at MooDoo 09:48
popeyhttp://twitpic.com/60975a09:52
popey2 days after "leaving facebook" :D09:52
MooDoo:p09:53
MooDoo:p09:53
MooDoo:p09:53
MooDoo:p09:53
MooDooi got told off09:53
MooDooby my mum09:53
popeyhaha09:54
MooDoobut thanks for making me feel small and inadiquate as usual popey :p09:54
popey:D09:54
popeyNP!09:54
MooDoo:P09:54
MooDoo:O09:54
* shauno wonders if it's appropriate to point & laugh when he barely knows these people09:55
bigcalmI'm lost09:55
MooDooshauno: why not everyone else does09:55
MooDoobigcalm: i closed my facebook account then re-opened it 3 days later....:(09:55
shaunoMooDoo: Har Har! </muntz>09:55
MooDoonow popey is taking the mick ;)09:55
MooDooshauno: pah! i don't even know you, cheeky s*d ;)09:56
bigcalmMooDoo: awww. The power of mums :)09:56
shaunoheh.  it happens.  my mother's idea of emailing me is trusting that facebook will email me for her09:56
MooDooi got the "your selfish, how can i view pictures of my grandkids now"09:57
MooDoonearly 40 and still under the thumb ;)09:57
shaunois she local enough to drop them on her doorstep?09:57
popeyMooDoo: invite her to G+?09:58
shauno(extra comedic value if 'local' is only vaguely the same country)09:58
popeyand use picasa09:58
MooDoopopey: it took all our efforts to get them onto facebook09:58
popeyhahah09:58
czajkowskiAloha09:58
popeyits all good fun09:58
gordMooDoo, change their hosts file to point at plus.google.com ;)09:59
popeyhah09:59
popey"Facebook has been updated"09:59
bigcalmMorning czajkowski :)10:00
shaunothat would be fantastic.  it's funny enough seeing them scream in pain every time a box moves somewhere else as it is :D10:00
MooDoohi czajkowski10:00
scoundrel50aI nhave a HP Photosmart Printer Scanner, I just connected it to my Ubuntu 10.10 laptop, it recognised it, but I cant get it to scan, is there something I am missing?10:00
czajkowskiMooDoo: bigcalm hi10:01
gordscoundrel50a, how are you trying to get it to scan?10:01
DJonesscoundrel50a: Which model is it?10:01
gordi have a photosmart c4700 scanning just fine next to me :)10:02
davmor2morning all10:02
MooDoomorning davmor210:02
scoundrel50aC3180 and I am pressing the scan button, but it says it cant connect to pc.......even though I can get it to print10:02
popeyyeah, dont do that10:02
popeyopen "Simple Scan" on Ubuntu10:02
DJonesscoundrel50a: Try manually scanning using xsane/simple scan etc10:02
scoundrel50aah, where is that, do I have to install it?10:02
popeyit should be pre-installed10:02
davmor2morning MooDoo10:02
popeySimple Scan, that is10:03
DJonessimple scan should be installed10:03
scoundrel50aok, one sec will go loo10:03
popeyTMI!10:03
popey:D10:03
scoundrel50awhere is it?10:03
MooDoopopey: think they missed that one popey :)10:03
DJonespopey: Will you slow down typing, I can't keep up :)10:03
popeyindeed10:03
popey:D10:03
* popey goes to get coffee10:03
scoundrel50aok got it, thank you10:03
* MooDoo has to purchase an external cd-writer for my laptop :(10:04
bigcalmThe milk went off this morning when I made my 1st mug of coffee. I has a sad :(10:04
scoundrel50aoh my gosh,t nhat worked, brilliant, spent hours trying to get that working,.   thank you10:05
DJonesscoundrel50a: The scan button on the printer doesn't do anything on mine either, I always use the app10:05
DJonesGlad it worked for you :)10:05
davmor2MooDoo: what for?  use a usb pen drive like the rest of us ;)10:05
MooDoodavmor2: yeah i suppose i could do that....10:05
MooDoodavmor2: can't burn cd's with that though can i :p10:05
shaunoI just don't 'do' paper.  problem(s) solved \o/10:06
DJonesMooDoo: Its a dangerous path doing that, I bought a usb cd/dvd writer when the built in one started to go funny instead of buying a new computer, 2 months later I bough a new computer10:06
MooDooDJones: i can't afford that, so i definately won't be doing that....10:07
DJonesMooDoo: Neither could I10:07
shaunoreminds me, the system I work on at work, just gained fax support in the last feature cycle.  go 2011 ;)10:07
MooDooDJones: baby in 5 weeks...10:07
DJonesThen I got a policy refund which more than covered the cost :)10:07
davmor2MooDoo: shouldn't of got a naff laptop then should you ;)10:08
MooDoodavmor2: it's a good laptop but about 3 years old10:08
DJonesMooDoo: The writer I picked up only cost £25, but still a waste of money with hindsight10:08
MooDooi'm nipping over to best buy at lunch to see what they have.10:09
davmor2MooDoo: local pc shop caddy is about 12-15 quid if you already have a cd writer knocking about failing that a cheap writer is about 8 quid10:10
DJonesThis was in a 2nd hand shop, just happened to spot it in the window, liteon cd/dvd, twin usb connection, worked well while I needed it10:10
MooDooi'll take a look around, i suppose i can live with out it10:14
davmor2MooDoo: you gave up on giving up on FB then dude?  didn't last long :)10:17
popeyi wonder if it's possible to detect the scan button and do something in ubuntu10:20
directhexdepends how the scan button emits a signal, i guess10:21
czajkowskimy laptop is going soo slow today on natty alt tabbing is taking forever :/10:21
czajkowskireally wondering about wiping and re installing10:22
czajkowskibut don't want to lose all my emails and settings in thunderbird10:22
davmor2czajkowski: install ccsm and switch off the 2 second delay alt tab should then be faster :)10:23
* davmor2 prods czajkowski for not knowing that already :D10:24
DJonespopey: The HPLIP package apparently doesn't support the scan to pc feature10:24
popeyczajkowski: have you tweaked the alt-tab delay in CCSM?10:25
czajkowskiI don't even know what CCSM is :/10:25
popeywe default to having a delay in popping up the ALT+TAB dialog10:25
popey(which is mental)10:25
popeycompizconfig-settings-manager10:25
czajkowskiahh no not tweaked anything but it's soo slow on the tosh10:25
popeyinstall unity-2d10:26
davmor2czajkowski: install oneiric10:26
popeymuch faster10:26
popeydont listen to him10:26
czajkowskiI've no intention of installing oneiric just yet10:27
czajkowskineed at least 1 working machine10:27
davmor2popey: it's nearly stable and it's faster10:27
czajkowskipopey: will install 2d on this one10:27
czajkowskipopey: thanks10:27
czajkowskiwho makes these crazy decsisons on default10:28
czajkowski*defaults10:28
MooDoodavmor2: your crazy, do you do it ;)10:28
davmor2czajkowski: I'll point at gord he can tell you10:29
gordi know noooothing10:30
czajkowskigord: was it you....10:30
* czajkowski peers at gord 10:30
davmor2czajkowski: see how quickly he denies it :)10:30
czajkowskidavmor2: you'd deny it too if I were peering at you10:30
popeyczajkowski: http://www.only10types.com/2011/06/ubuntu-1104-natty-slow-alttab-window.html10:30
* MooDoo thinks davmor2 is casuing trouble this morning10:30
popeydo that on unity 3d10:30
popeysee if that improves it10:30
czajkowskilaptop was fine till around a week or so ago, when it started to slow down10:30
popeyif it doesn't then switch to 2d10:31
davmor2czajkowski: nah I'd just say "and!" :D10:31
gordif it started getting slow a week ago then i would suspect something else eating up your ram or cpu or something10:31
davmor2MooDoo: it's not my fault you went running back to facebook :P10:31
MooDoodavmor2: shut it...!!10:32
czajkowskipopey: cheers will do10:32
MooDoodavmor2: you wouldn't of known if that varlet popey hadn't of grassed me up ;)10:32
popeyhaha10:32
popeys/varlet/harlet/10:32
popeyi guess10:33
MooDoopopey: no varlet10:33
davmor2MooDoo: the post poped up in gwibber this morning when I switched on10:33
MooDooA dishonest or unprincipled man10:33
MooDoo:p10:33
bigcalmMaybe popey thinks of himself as a harlet10:33
MooDoolol10:33
MooDoowouldn't that be harlot though?10:34
davmor2MooDoo: That makes you the varlet, popey said starting the clock and stopping the clock, you were the one with the lack of principles :P10:34
MooDoodavmor2: pah! stop being clever, it's just not you...:)10:35
davmor2now we all know our place, popey is a stop watch, you are a varlet, I ain't clever and czajkowski is just pure violence :)10:36
MooDooyeah but we all like czajkowski  ;)10:36
bigcalmHow do you empty the mailq? -q attempts to deliver10:37
Kirrusbigcalm: what base, qmail, postfix?10:38
bigcalmErm, good question. Most likely postfix10:39
directhexpostqueue -f10:39
Kirruspostsuper -d ALL10:39
directhexor did you mean "empty" as in "erase"10:40
Kirruspostqueue -f flushes10:40
bigcalmerase10:40
directhexerasing mail is naughty. and evil.10:40
Kirrusso it'll try to redeliver.. you want postsuper -d10:40
directhexand yeah, Kirrus is correct10:40
bigcalmdirecthex: this is my dev system10:40
KirrusYou can use a mailid instead of 'ALL' if you want to be more picky10:40
bigcalmMail in the Q is not going anywhere10:40
bigcalmKirrus: thanks for that :)10:41
Kirrusbigcalm: thank google ;) .. That how I found it last time I needed it ;)10:41
bigcalmUnexpected bonus - apparently was paying too much tax since April. Glad my employer is on the ball. 57 quid I wasn't expecting this month11:05
dogmatic69:/11:05
bigcalmTempting to buy more toys, will put it aside for oggcamp instead11:05
MooDoopah me wants to go to ogg camp....11:05
MooDooanyone know how to deliver a baby just in case i decide to go with the misses ;)11:06
* dogmatic69 has done this11:06
czajkowskipopey: thanks all working now much faster11:06
dogmatic69its not too hard, unless there are complications11:06
MooDoodogmatic69: :)11:07
dogmatic69MooDoo: especially if its not the first11:07
MooDoooggcamp website looks ace :)11:08
* MooDoo wonders if oggcamp is becoming the new Lug Radio live ;)11:10
DJonesHeh, IE users may not be as dumb as recent media reports have suggested http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14389430 Its the media people who reported that are the dumb ones11:32
WorMzyAw11:33
BigRedSYeah, It's as if the BBC are trying to gain a reputation for not fact-checking11:33
popey\o/ pub o'clock!11:36
MooDoo:)11:36
* TheOpenSourcerer has decided on this Friday for the West Dean Chilli Fiesta :-D11:40
directhexTheOpenSourcerer, i found a bag of chilli stuff in the cupboard which i brought back from a business trip to san antonio. next week i'll be making texas roadhouse chilli, and also carnitas :)11:42
davmor2TheOpenSourcerer: does the rest of west dean know about this?11:42
TheOpenSourcererdavmor2: http://www.westdean.org.uk/Garden/News%20and%20Events/ChilliFiesta.aspx11:42
davmor2gord you might know why doesn't 2d unity have the same launchers in it as 3d unity surely they use the same source to get the info right?11:47
gorddavmor2, they should have the same launchers, but there was an update recently that reset everyones launchers so maybe something got confused11:47
davmor2gord: oh nice it does now :)  for ages it didn't so there must of been an update that fixed it :)11:49
gordnothing more disappointing than a graze box full of things you don't want :(11:51
davmor2gord: I think you'll find there is, a gaze box that was full of things you like but is now empty when you really need some11:53
MooDoodavmor2: facebook reply is availabvle12:06
bowtiehi all12:10
MooDoohi bowtie :)12:13
bowtieMooDoo, is this the write place to ask a theme question?12:14
MooDoo!ask12:15
lubotu3Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)12:15
MooDoo:D12:15
bowtieOk, the Ambiance theme, shows highlighted pop up windows  with white text on gray background, to me this is eligible, where do I have tyo go to hack file and change colour settings,12:17
* alanbell1 grumbles at silly FTTC setup12:21
alanbell1it was working really well for an hour or two12:22
hamitrongrumbles \o/12:22
daubersalanbell1: Broked it already?12:22
alanbell1yeah12:22
hamitron:/12:22
alanbell1fun call with support configuring PPPoE connection on Ubuntu though12:22
daubersPPPoE? Do you not get a router?12:23
alanbell1turns out they are going to activate the account tomorrow (even though it worked this morning)12:23
alanbell1yes, part of the troubleshooting was plug direct into the DSL modem and set up PPPoE12:23
daubersah, ok12:24
alanbell1to take the router out of the equation12:24
hamitronalanbell1: good to see they know what they are doing, and letting you know ;)12:24
hamitronwho is this through?12:24
alanbell1plus.net12:24
hamitron:(12:24
alanbell1it was smokin' fast when it worked12:24
hamitronI was considering switching to them....12:24
alanbell134MB down, 1.6MB up12:25
hamitronnot for fast stuff though12:25
daubersalanbell1: That makes me a sad panda :( Stupid 18 month contract terms12:25
alanbell1now I have to get a wireless dongle working on my server too12:25
alanbell1Bus 002 Device 008: ID 7392:7722 Edimax Technology Co., Ltd12:25
directhexalanbell1, bt infinity?12:26
alanbell1directhex: 21CN stuff, yeah12:26
directhexwell, rebranded infinity anyway12:26
directhexi'm wondering if changing to fininity will help fix my line reliability12:26
alanbell1probably would as only the last few meters are copper12:27
directhexif nothing else, if i buy from BT, that should help avoid the finger-pointing dance between ISP and BT12:28
directhexridiculous though. a month ago i had 16Mib down. one BT visit later, a new phone line installed, I get 10 down.12:30
daubersdirecthex: you obviously didn't supply the BT man with a good enough cup of tea :)12:30
daubersor substandard biscuits12:30
directhexi offered...12:31
daubers:)12:31
directhexanyway, the new line is way slower than the old one, and no more reliable. and be won't help anymore, they're telling me to ring BT. who charge £120 for engineer visits, unless a problem can be proven in THEIR kit. and a line test reports no problem12:31
directhexso i need to spend £120 on an engineer to tell me it's all Be's fault12:32
davmor2MooDoo: that's fairly subtle coming from you dude ;)12:34
MooDoodavmor2: yeah i'm trying to be nice.12:35
daubersdirecthex: I can do that for you for £119.9912:35
davmor2MooDoo: you fail at that too then :D12:35
alanbell1well this wireless dongle isn't just working :(12:39
davmor2alanbell1: what the chipset and what ubuntu version?12:39
alanbell1http://paste.ubuntu.com/657888/12:40
alanbell1Ubuntu 11.0412:40
MooDoooi czajkowski *POKE*12:40
alanbell1I believe it may be a ralink chipset based on googling the USB ID12:40
davmor2alanbell1: if it's a ralink 5390 there is now a driver for it in oneiric but not on by default anywhere else in Ubuntu land12:41
alanbell1Ralink RT3072 perhaps12:42
alanbell1https://usb-ids.gowdy.us/read/UD/7392/772212:42
davmor2alanbell1: you may need to grab the driver from ralink direct unfortunately12:42
alanbell1would it work in oneiric?12:43
czajkowskiMooDoo: sup12:45
MooDooczajkowski: just wanted to let you know i'm still annoyingly here and haven't forgotten about you :)12:46
czajkowskiok...12:46
* czajkowski goes back to cleaning 12:46
davmor2czajkowski: I don't believe you were cleaning at all :P12:49
* daubers puts on BBC Radio Wiltshire13:43
MooDoodaubers: oi stop it, radio 2 is the only way to go ;)13:51
daubersMooDoo: Friend of mine is being interviewed about his book :)13:51
MooDoosweet13:51
MooDooi wrote a book once, it just consisted of my name, it wasn't an interesting read ;)13:52
daubersMooDoo: his first novel is released tomorrow13:52
MooDoobrillian13:53
daubersThat was short13:57
TheOpenSourcererouch! http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/public-sector/2011/08/agile-in-the-nhs-10-years-5bn.html13:58
MooDoosweetI'm sure i saw on the news thos morning it's been scrapped13:58
alanbell1there is a good reason they want to figure out how to trade with SMEs again14:03
lightstreamnice work if you can get it14:04
MooDooi'll sort the NHS out.....14:06
MooDooalanbell1: your mission ;)14:06
alanbell1MooDoo: not taking on the NHS, even the cabinet office doesn't want to go there14:07
alanbell1it would be easier to get an RT3072 chipset USB wifi dongle working than it would be to fix the NHS14:08
daubersBe easier to fix all the issues I have with "Finder" on a mac then fix the NHS14:11
alanbell1http://paste.ubuntu.com/657953/14:12
alanbell1any ideas what to do about that lot?14:12
alanbell1I think I have downloaded probably the right module, I might have built it and installed it14:12
daubersalanbell1: Check the module is loaded with lsmod?14:13
alanbell1http://paste.ubuntu.com/657956/14:14
alanbell1that would be a no14:15
daubersalanbell1: Does it not even give you an eth back?14:16
alanbell1how do you mean?14:16
alanbell1it doesn't create eth1 or anything14:16
daubersalanbell1: Also which kernel are you running?14:16
alanbell1Linux playroom 2.6.38-8-generic #42-Ubuntu SMP Mon Apr 11 03:31:24 UTC 2011 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux14:17
daubersalanbell1: What happens if you modprobe the driver?14:18
alanbell1FATAL: Error inserting rt5370sta (/lib/modules/2.6.38-8-generic/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/rt5370sta.ko): Unknown symbol in module, or unknown parameter (see dmesg)14:19
alanbell1if that is the right driver14:19
daubersis there no general rt3070 driver?14:19
alanbell1seemed to be the only thing that make install actually installed14:19
* daubers despises wireless networking of all kinds14:20
alanbell1I downloaded "RT8070/RT3070/RT3370/RT5370/RT5372 USB" from http://www.ralinktech.com/support.php?s=214:21
alanbell1the release notes say it works on 3072, which I *think* I have14:21
directhexalanbell1, you can't just insert a .ko without building. the kernel has no stable ABI14:22
alanbell1I did make; sudo make install14:22
alanbell1there is a .c file with a list of USB ids that does't include my one, lets see what happens if I add it there14:26
* popey has dd-wrt'ed a router14:28
popeyits a bit nice14:28
lightstreamah was looking at that a while ago, the FOSS firmware?14:28
lightstreamhow easy was it to install?14:29
gordonly a bit nice?14:29
davmor2gord: our minds must be on the same wavelength I was about to put the exact same thing :D14:33
gordnote to self, copyright everything i say on irc14:33
daubersgord: I've copyrighted that statement, you owe me licence money!14:34
gorddaubers, an ip address is not an admission of guilt!14:34
* MooDoo is just checking the DB to see if i can dd-wrt mine14:35
daubersgord: That's ok, I've also copyrighted your IP address, so every packet you send means you owe me more in licencing \o/14:35
MooDooooo it is14:35
popeylightstream: very very14:36
MooDoopopey: did you just download the chk file and use the router interface to flash it?14:36
popeyi just took one out of the box, and chose "router upgrade", uploaded the firmware file, wait a minute, job done14:37
MooDoothink i might try that14:37
lightstreamwhat brand router popey ?14:37
popeyNetgear WNDR3700v214:37
lightstreamah cool i have a netgear, i shall check the model number when i get home14:38
MooDoohmmm i've got a WNR2000 and it won't let me use the chk file, must read ore14:38
alanbell1http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=64575 this looks close14:39
alanbell1yay, I have an ra0 device \o/14:41
directhexalanbell1, GPL-only symbols?14:41
alanbell1that could be the magic trick I guess14:41
alanbell1I thought it was the insmod from the folder rather than modprobe14:42
popey\o/ second access point flashed to dd-wrt14:42
popeyonly one more to go14:42
alanbell1anyhow it kind of works, network manager isn't picking it up and I haven't done the blacklist thing (which probably isn't required as it is an odd usb id)14:42
MooDoopah my router isn't supported #fail14:43
alanbell1I think a reboot is in order o/14:43
gordhuh, seems my router can do ddwrt too, but i'v finally got a router that works, so i'm not touching it14:43
popeyloving the UI of this14:44
MooDooi can't upgrade mine :(14:45
popeyi might disable my superhub and just use this14:45
popeyit has dual radios so does 2.4GHz and 5GHz14:45
popeyhaha, someone with an iphone keeps connecting to it14:46
popeyI can see myself donating to this product14:47
MooDooblimey14:47
alanbell1progress is being made, the module loads, I can do "ifconfig ra0 up" and I can do iwlist ra0 scanning and see my router name14:54
alanbell1network manager isn't seeing it though. Any ideas on that?14:54
Mezalanbell1: NM takes a while to pick things up.  Simplest thing is to connect an ethernet and then drop down to "disconnect"14:54
Mezwhich forces it to do a refresh, I've found14:55
alanbell1nope14:55
alanbell1!ping14:56
lubotu3Here I am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to respond to factoid requests. Call that job satisfaction? Because I don't.14:56
alanbell1lets see if I can connect to the router using the command line15:00
alanbell1hmm, no15:03
bigcalmWhat's the advised way of coping with “and” ?15:03
alanbell1can't set the essid using iwconfig15:03
Azelphuranyone know how to exclude certain directories from an rsnapshot backup?15:06
Azelphurlike I want to do backup root@myserver:/ but I have certain things that are pointless and huge that I don't want backed up15:06
bigcalmLike an snv:ignore15:09
Azelphurhttp://news.slashdot.org/story/11/08/03/0239242/Ripping-CDs-Set-To-Be-Legalized-In-UK yay15:13
TheOpenSourcererAzelphur:15:14
TheOpenSourcererQ: How do I exclude files/directories with spaces in their names, like Documents and Settings?15:14
TheOpenSourcererA: You can make use of the wildcard matching and replace the space with a ?, for example: exclude=Documents?and?Settings/ 15:14
TheOpenSourcererhttp://rsnapshot.org/faq.html15:14
Azelphurfun :)15:14
TheOpenSourcererBit about using a exclude list here: http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-rsnapshot-backup-howto/15:16
popeyMOO!15:21
directhexOINK!15:21
DJonesNEIGH!15:22
AzelphurBAA!15:22
DJonesBeef, Pork, Horse & Lamb, sounds like a french BBQ15:23
directhexQUACK!15:23
TheOpenSourcererReads like a page from the kids book "Farmer Duck".15:24
popeydd-wrt.com seems dead :WS15:29
popey⍨ even15:29
hamitronentire internet is15:30
hamitron:/15:30
hamitronwell, broken anyway15:30
hamitron;/15:30
MooDooblimey fedora board meetings are just soooo boring to watch lol15:41
gordMooDoo, you suggest there are board meetings that are interesting to watch :)15:42
MooDoo:)15:42
davmor2popey: when you say seems dead do you mean no-one is working on it or the site is down?15:42
MooDooseems ok here popey15:43
MooDoohttp://dd-wrt.com/site/index15:43
popeyit was dead when i said it15:54
popeyit's back now15:54
diploHi all, mates laptop was set to login auto15:54
diploHes set it to require a password now15:55
diploBut when trying to login it says currently logged in15:55
diplobut doesn't load desktop15:55
diploCan login via cli15:55
diploAny ideas ?15:55
diploGoogle isn't helping so far :)15:55
popeyare you sat at it?15:55
diploHe is yeah15:55
diplo2 foot away15:55
popeyyou are not?15:55
popeyoh15:55
popeyso rebooting takes him to gdm logon screen?15:56
diployep15:56
diploEnters details, clicks login and just refreshes15:56
diploand says currently logged in15:56
popeyooer15:56
diploheh, first time for me as well15:57
lightstreambut doing ctrl-alt-F1 lets him log in?15:57
diploYep15:57
lightstreamweirdness15:57
diploTried passwd just to make sure15:57
diplojust trying useradd now, see if a new user can login15:58
lightstreamprobb a red herring, ie it's not that he's already logged in but someother issue that is making the login fail15:58
lightstreamand the error reporting is 'jumping to conclusions'15:58
diplook, currently logged in was another tty15:59
diploforgot to exit out15:59
diploSo created a new user, clicked on it and it just refreshes the login screen, doesn't offer to put pass in15:59
diploSo it seems its to do with gdm-session-worker assertion failed16:04
diplogoogled for that now, if any one has any ideas ?16:04
diploHmm, too hot, he's given up for the day.. if we don't get anywhere in the morning I'll harass you all again16:06
diplo:)16:06
ali1234does anyone happen to know how much a ticket from london victoria to luton airport costs?16:42
ali1234(if you turn up and buy it on the day)16:42
tubadaz£16.00 single, £21.00 for a day return (according to the national rail website) :-)16:46
ali1234damn16:47
ali1234that's a total rip off :(16:47
tubadazWelcome to UK rail pricing! :-(16:47
MartijnVdSBus to luton is cheaper16:47
MartijnVdS"Green Line" are good.16:47
ali1234i can get a coach from nottingham to luton for £2616:48
ali1234or i can get a coach from nottingham to london victoria (which is about twice as far) for £916:48
MartijnVdShttp://www.greenline.co.uk/serviceInformation.aspx?id=1259516:49
MartijnVdSoh it's still £16 single16:49
MartijnVdSripoff :)16:49
tubadaznational express are quoting me from £15 for a single on the coach!! :-O16:49
ali1234yes16:49
MartijnVdSthis is why I took the train from Brussels to  St Pancras :)16:49
tubadazplus a booking fee of 50p!!16:49
MartijnVdS£50 flight + £25 bus tickets = cheaper to take the train :)16:50
ali1234train nottingham to luton costs the same as well, £2616:50
ali1234but it takes an hour less16:50
=== luke__ is now known as Featurefreak
AlanBellI am failing to connect my wireless by the command line16:56
ali1234popey: you can share a 3g dongle over wifi using openwrt. do not use dd-wrt, it is dumbed down rubbish16:56
AlanBellsudo iwconfig wlan0 essid PlusnetWirelessYVMZVD key s:PQET7XLDQR16:56
AlanBellError for wireless request "Set Encode" (8B2A) :    SET failed on device wlan0 ; Invalid argument.16:56
AlanBellwhat am I doing wrong there? (the key is slightly different to the one I pasted)16:57
popeyali1234: i have already flashed it with dd-wrt :D17:01
popeyali1234: will have a look at openwrt when I get home, thanks17:02
* brobostigon returns17:04
ubuntuuk-planet[Jono Bacon] Weekly Ubuntu Q+A Videocasts - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/08/03/weekly-ubuntu-qa-videocasts/17:15
=== Guest80704 is now known as webpigeon
=== webpigeon is now known as Guest5021
=== Guest5021 is now known as skyrat
=== skyrat is now known as webpigeon
* peng42phone yawns from Peterborough train St18:07
AlanBellooh, I think I am online18:15
brobostigon:)18:15
brobostigonyou are, yes.18:15
AlanBellhttp://www.speedtest.net/result/1415791585.png18:16
AlanBellnot as fast as it was this morning, I seem to have lost 14MB of download18:17
peng42phoneNew line?18:20
AlanBellI think the Fiber to the Cabinet box is overheating18:35
brobostigon:(18:36
AlanBellyeah, stories all over the net about them overheating when not wall mounted18:38
brobostigonah.18:38
MartijnVdSThis Intel 510 SSD rocks quite hard18:42
MartijnVdSBoot from BIOS to login screen is faster than the BIOS part ;)18:42
popeyno speedtest for me!18:45
popeyflash free august18:45
MartijnVdSpopey: the png AlanBell linked to will still work though :)18:45
popeyhah18:45
MartijnVdSpopey: PNG is stallman-approved Free :)18:45
popeyso i flashed 3 routers to dd-wrt18:45
popeynow learn that openwrt is probably what I want/need18:46
MartijnVdSpopey: I thought one was a fork of the other18:46
TheOpenSourcererpopey: What does it do that you need?18:46
popeyopenwrt supports 3g dongles18:51
popeywhich means I need to flash it back to netgear firmware then openwrt it18:52
popeytried going dd-wrt -> openwrt but it helpfully says "update failed"18:52
hamitronare they not merging towards each other?18:53
popeyno idea18:53
hamitronI read they are to reduce work or something18:54
mgdmit'd make sense18:54
peng42phonePopeye's: that's pretty helpful compared to bricking18:54
popeytrue18:54
ali1234openwrt does not "support 3g dongles" any more than any other linux distribution18:54
ali1234it merely allows you to do whatever you want18:55
ali1234while dd-wrt doesn't18:55
popeygotcha18:55
hamitronyou have the right to break things on openwrt.... :-o18:55
ali12343g dongles are no different to any other ppp dial up18:55
* hamitron switches18:55
ali1234dd-wrt is for people who want to run a custom firmware but don't need any features that aren't in the standard firmware18:57
hamitronthe one thing missing from dd-wrt for me... I'm like ipv6 and vpn supported at the same time18:58
hamitronI'd*18:58
hamitronbut not looked closely18:59
hamitronjust didn't seem to be a simple option available18:59
ali1234that's because such things are not simple18:59
hamitrona lazy tinkerer doesn't get much tinkering  done19:00
hamitron:/19:00
hamitronwell19:00
hamitronthere was no firmware build with both in, that will fit on my router19:00
hamitron:/19:00
hamitrondidn't even get to the point of attempting to set it up19:01
ali1234openwrt is customizable19:01
hamitronand if anything recently, I've been reducing the options I have19:01
ali1234you can remove packages you don't need to make room... like the web interface19:02
hamitronso it would be better for me19:02
hamitron:)19:02
hamitronjust so much to do in life19:02
hamitron:/19:02
hamitronand so little time19:02
shaunookay.  here's a fun one.  why does irssi keep getting killed by SIGALRM19:28
MartijnVdSshauno: because you loaded a plugin that called alarm() but not a signal handler19:31
shaunoshoulda thought to look at new scripts.  even though that's been running a good 6 weeks now19:46
MartijnVdSFry's English Delight is great this week :)19:47
peng42phoneHmm, the expected arrival time of my train keeps getting later20:09
ubuntuuk-planet[Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E12  More Tea Vicar - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/08/03/s04e12-more-tea-vicar/20:15
=== airurando_ is now known as airurando
popeyanyone fancy helping me debug a ppp 3g issue?21:21
bigcalmI would do, but I have to go play taxi man now and pick up Hayley21:23
popeyok21:23
AlanBellhow are you getting on with the liberated routers?21:24
popeyi have openwrt on one21:24
popeyand have plugged a known working 3g dongle into it21:24
popeybut can't seem to get it to dial21:25
AlanBellis the dongle in useless mode?21:25
popeyno, I think it's good21:25
AlanBellor in I am a modem mode21:25
popeyBus 001 Device 002: ID 19d2:0031 ONDA Communication S.p.A. ZTE MF63621:25
popey19d2:2000 is useless mode I believe21:25
popey /dev/ttyUSB0-2 exist21:26
popeywhich is a start21:26
ali1234so what happens when you send "AT" to it?21:26
popeyhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/658237/21:26
AlanBellcan you talk to it with minicom or something?21:26
popeythats what ppp is doing21:26
ali1234pppd is useless for debugging21:26
ali1234use minicom21:26
popeyok21:27
popeyroot@hawking:~# opkg search minicom21:27
popeyroot@hawking:~#21:27
ali1234"AT&F" is some crazy stuff i never heard of21:27
popey21:27
popeyhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/658247/21:28
popeyi believe its using that21:28
ali1234yeah delete all that rubbish21:28
ali1234it's different for every dongle21:28
popeyhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/658248/21:28
popeythats from my /etc/config/networking21:28
popey -ing21:28
ali1234AT&F and ATE1 are not needed21:29
ali1234but you have to put the dongle online21:29
ali1234whoever wrote that script has no clue :)21:29
popeyheh21:29
popeydunno where it came from21:29
ali1234but it doesn't help that every dongle is different21:29
ali1234ATE1 = local echo21:30
ali1234you probably need ATV1 too for verbose mode otherwise it won't return "OK"21:31
ali1234then you have to send21:31
ali1234AT+CFUN=121:31
ali1234AT+COPS=021:31
ali1234then you can send AT+CGDCONT...21:31
mgdmAT&F was, if I remember over 10 years ago correctly, something to reset bits inside the modem21:32
mgdmI forget exactly what bits21:32
popeyhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/658252/21:32
popeylike that?21:32
ali1234no21:32
ali1234that will wait for ever for "OK" before it sends anything21:32
ali1234line 6 must start with ""21:32
popeyoh21:32
popeygotcha21:32
ali1234and put ATE1 back in21:33
ali1234after ATV121:33
ali1234and you should do this using a terminal emulator21:33
ali1234picocom, microcom, or cu21:33
ali1234or just cat and echo21:33
popeyhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/658253/21:33
ali1234ok21:34
ali1234no21:34
ali1234ATV121:34
popeyque21:35
popeysorry, being dim21:35
czajkowskiwhooooooooooo going back to ireland for 10 days :D21:43
mgdm\o/21:43
shaunoany chance you can bring some sun with ya ?21:43
czajkowskiif I've not melted by then sure21:44
shaunomeant to be heading out to the aran islands on saturday.  would be nice if they could pause the drizzle for 12 hours21:45
czajkowskiit was 30 today here21:46
czajkowskiwell said 28 outdoors21:47
czajkowskidamn hotter indoors21:47
AlanBellczajkowski: when are you going?21:49
LaneyI went climbing today. Some of the holds were seriously sweaty due to the extreme heat :(21:51
Azelphuranyone happen to know what all the wildcard characters are for irc hostmask matches?21:51
AzelphurI think it's just * and ? right?21:51
mgdmIIRC, yes, pretty much the same as shell globs21:53
Azelphur:)21:53
mgdmYou'd think I'd remember being staff and everything, but no...21:53
Azelphurhaha21:53
popeygrrrr21:57
czajkowskiAlanBell: 23/8 - 1/922:00
popey\o/22:00
* AlanBell checks diary22:01
popeythought for a moment you'd be away for oggcamp!22:01
czajkowskipopey: and you went \o/ ;)22:02
czajkowskiseeing as have to sign on here every 2 weeks going in between for a wee break back home22:03
czajkowskiheading straight to Lahinch :D22:03
popeyhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/658266/22:04
popeynearly there!22:04
czajkowskipopey: whatcha doing...22:06
popeytrying to get a backup router working for oggcamp22:06
popeyin case we need it for internet access22:06
czajkowskiahh22:06
czajkowskismart22:06
popeyfrustrating22:06
popeyso close22:06
hamitron"need"22:06
hamitron;/22:06
popeyyeah, some people will need internet access for their talks22:06
czajkowskipopey: you giving a talk22:07
popeydunno yet22:07
popeynot written one yet22:07
popeynot had time22:07
czajkowskiI was thinking about it22:07
czajkowskibut don't know what I could talk on22:07
dwatkinsbringing Ubuntu to the masses?22:09
gordyay, want a new router already22:19
AlanBellczajkowski: I will be flying back on the 23rd22:19
czajkowskito or from shannon ?22:21
AlanBellfrom shannon to gatwick22:21
AlanBellI will wave at you out of the window as we go past22:21
AlanBellcrap, no static IP address for me :(22:37
* mgdm waves his static IP \o/22:40
mgdmAlanBell: how come?22:40
AlanBellnot available on this service apparently22:41
AlanBelleven though I very specifically asked for one when ordering and was told that I could add one for £5 after setup22:41
AlanBellnow I am told to go use dyndns :(22:42
popeyOh look, it's Sterly-worded-letter-of-complaint O'Clock!22:43
AlanBellbed o'clock22:43
popeythatalso22:43
AlanBellI will get by with dyndns and assuming that if I keep everything on I keep the address22:44
czajkowskiAlanBell: leave @ 6:50am flight23:06
czajkowskionly time to fly to shannon from gatwick23:06
ali1234popey: the dial string is different across all dongles23:33
ali1234also, is it the free 3 dongle?23:36
ali1234because that needs an extra command to enable 3G data mode23:37

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