[00:00] ok [00:00] No thanks, I'd rather sit on my heels [00:00] i'm off to fall asleep on the couch, or something [00:00] LOL [00:00] yeah. i'd rather sit here and not make any money. :-P [00:01] ok, i'm off [00:01] see everyone tomorrow, i guess. [00:19] flowscan and flow-tools anyone? [00:20] nope, never heard of [00:21] i wish someone would grease my shaft and test the sliding force. [00:21] they are opensource rflow tools. this seems to be an area lacking in open source. [01:55] Q: [01:56] I have 2 copies of StarCraft, the one I originally got a long ways back and the one that came with the battlechest that I picked up at a garage sale a few years ago. [01:56] What would be the difference between mailing it too one of my friends. [01:56] And uploading it and giving them the cd key too. [01:57] The one I'd be giving them, hasn't been opened and registered on battlenet yet. [01:58] Would it be considered piracy? [02:00] TeamXlink: I am not a lawyer [02:00] So this isn't legal advice......... [02:00] TeamXlink: But I would say that mailing it to your friend would be preferable [02:00] But why would it be any different though? [02:01] because uploading it and then giving your friend the CD key technically isn't piracy [02:01] but you don't have to prove it to someone technical [02:01] Oh, it isn't? [02:01] you have to prove it to someone who isn't technical [02:01] Ah. [02:01] and frankly, I wouldn't take that gamble. [02:01] How is it technically not piracy though? [02:02] Well, to me, the license is with the key, not the medium [02:02] however, someone non-technical wouldn't see it that way [02:02] I don't see the difference between uploading it + giving him the cd key and mailing it. [02:02] Other then one saves postage [02:02] They'd see you uploading the CD as possibly infringing [02:02] TeamXlink: Send it media mail [02:02] Media mail is cheap [02:03] media mail? [02:03] Yes. [02:04] hmmmmmm [02:04] http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/173.htm [02:05] Ah, I see. [02:54] https://github.com/kobolabs/Kobo-Reader [02:58] huh. kobo runs Qt? [07:57] Ah trolling, the internet's past time. [11:32] I thought the internet's pastime was feeding the trolls... [11:43] Wolfger: Depends on what side of the fence you're on. [11:43] morning [11:44] I like both sides [11:44] party [11:44] Good morning [11:44] "As someone who has bought Drupal books from Packt, I am pleased to invite you to the private launch of our new PacktLib Drupal library. " [11:45] Oh boy! [11:45] wheee [11:45] It's like Christmas in July, only it's August, and I don't give a shit. [11:46] Annual subscription of 9.99 for 30 Packt titles, though. [11:48] Or you could just buy the handful of good books, and have money left over. [11:53] so, not a packt fan? [11:56] Not really [11:56] They seem to shovel out books that aren't very well put together [11:57] Put another way: a strong author will make a very strong book regardless of the publisher. A weak author will make crap if the publisher doesn't help out. [11:57] I think O'Reilly and Apress do more for their authors than Packt. [12:43] AWesome. RIM launched three new devices nobody cares about: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/aug/03/rim-blackberry-launch [12:46] is the hp webos tablet out? [12:47] yea, been out a while [12:47] got it's first ota update this week [12:47] i haven't heard anything about it [12:47] it was a big "meh" [12:48] not even whether is sux/rox [12:48] see above [12:49] mainly it came down to poor build quality and lacking app ecosystem [12:49] snap-l: heh, call me when BB is running QNX on phones and we can chat I guess [12:50] there shouldn ' [12:50] rick_h_: Yeah, I'm sure that'll be an exciting day. [12:50] shouldn't be another release of the old BBOS [12:53] you want a playbook? [12:53] nope [12:54] but I think their new OS is their only hope in keeping up with the smart phone market [12:54] their old one is too windows 95 [12:55] i'd like to see webos succeed [12:56] +1 [12:56] I'm hoping they get the palm3 out there and rocking by this holiday season so I can give it a real loko [12:58] Yeah, but HP is extremely good at keeping things alive that should be taken out back and shot [12:58] witness HP-UX. ;) [13:04] I'll note that nobody in this room is clamouring to defend HP-UX. ;) [13:05] i have never used it [13:06] It's like what you might expect from a corporate UNIX [13:07] strange directory placement, admin interfaces that hide the gory details, etc. [13:07] snap-l: VMS :) [13:07] Oh, and the complete absense of any compiler of note without a license. [13:07] jrwren: VMS is awesome. What are you talking about? :) [13:08] its still alive. [13:08] no copmiler... so its just like EVERY other commercial unix that isn't OSX [13:08] solaris - ships with no compiler. [13:08] tru64 - no compiler [13:08] what else is there? [13:09] but gcc is pretty easy to build on all of those. [13:09] Bootstrap, yes. [13:09] I wouldn't say easy to build, though. ;) [13:09] At least, not 10 years ago [13:13] build? [13:14] brousch: Have you ever used any UNIX other than Linux? [13:14] solaris way back in college [13:15] ok, I'm going to have to disconnect from the internet today [13:15] I'm ultra sensitive to the "stupid" today [13:15] On most, if not all commercial UNIX machines, they only ship with a rudimentary K&R compiler [13:15] rick_h_: What's wrong now? [13:16] "How to include an image in a blog post using ReST ?" is the straw that broke... [13:16] brousch: So if you wanted to compile things (like GNU Utilities) from source, you can't [13:16] on the blogofile mailing list [13:16] rick_h_: Serously? [13:16] https://groups.google.com/d/topic/blogofile-discuss/yf3CY_rOy7s/discussion [13:17] and see #pyramid and #sqlalchemy for the warm up materials [13:18] " so, now i have my model - some mako templates ... and how do i get the data from the db now? and into it? :D [13:18] " [13:18] "elmcrest: you know, I think the demo wiki app thing can help with that" [13:18] response: "elmcrest> damn docs :D" [13:19] yes, you're going to figure out how to use sqlalchemy, mako, and all of pyramid without the docs...was that really your expectation? [13:19] it's python, it should just work [13:19] brousch: So if you want to build anything, you'll need a compiler, and gcc can be "bootstrapped" via the K&R compiler. [13:19] he should be able to type in 'import myapp' and be up and running [13:19] Blazeix: damn, got me. "There should be only one true way to do things..." [13:20] brousch: The K&R compiler is generally used on commercial UNIX to compile kernel stuff, but has just enough to get GCC going [13:20] *sigh* so I have this cool client side calculator and they client doesn't it to auto update after they change each value [13:20] brousch: And then, once bootstrapped, you can compile GCC using GCC. [13:20] they're forcing me to put a big calculate button on the page [13:20] rick_h_: nice. [13:21] rick_h_: Sure we should have bar-room coders tonight? [13:21] you can't just calculate after each entry? [13:21] brousch: no, they don't like the magic I guess [13:21] they're quite firm on it [13:21] ah, so they want it to feel like a meatspace calculator [13:21] rick_h_: Which one of them has Javascript turned off? [13:21] and they don't want me to popup the docs for each changed item automatically. They want an additional column with a big checkbox. [13:22] snap-l: hopefully none of them, this whole damn this is a client side calculator/simulator [13:22] *sigh* "Please take your cool working demo and just suck it up a bit for us. kthx!" [13:24] next they will want you to make the page look like a TI-82 [13:24] maybe add a little solar cell image near the top [13:24] snap-l: where's post-MUG been lately? [13:24] brousch: Nah, HP12C [13:25] Shields [13:25] They have an awesome veggie pizza, if I might say so [13:26] cool [13:26] boss is going to make the next few mug meetings he says and was curious [13:26] Very cool [13:27] Depending on how this meeting goes, I may be hitting him up for some favors. ;) [13:27] hah, is that today? [13:27] Yep [13:27] maybe we need BHC for you today then [13:28] rick_h_: Nah, I'll just bring a big ol' bottle of Kahlua to CHC, and ask them to "use that" [13:29] Speaking of which, time to add 75 people manually to a Live Meeting. [13:30] brb. [13:30] ouch [13:34] osx just keeps beckoning to rick_h_ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/02/apple_dumps_mysql_from_mac_os_x_server/ [13:35] "The previous version of the OS – Snow Leopard Server " [13:35] removed the admin gui from osx server, replaced mysql with postgres [13:35] they have a server? I wasn't aware you could get that any more :P [13:36] http://www.apple.com/macosx/server/ [13:36] brousch: sorry, was being sarcastic [13:36] just mean that with no server product, I'm not sure those are flying off the shelf [13:39] ah [13:40] I mean, who cares what's in OSX server? but I am always happy to see mysql get beat up a bit [13:40] our last staff meeting was fun. Got to use my cool phrase "don't use a database that's defective by design..." 3 times :) [13:42] i'll bet that doesn't annoy anyone [13:43] the 3rd time I got the hand :) [13:43] anyone have issues with the latest samba package updates? [13:46] but its industrial standard. [13:46] but its webscale. [13:47] heh, we keep hitting crap that's meant to help myisam work out but then causes innodb issues [13:47] and we're not going ot myisam any time soon [13:47] ewe [13:51] Innodb is what happens when a MyISAM and a journal get together and make a database. [13:52] GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. [13:52] Dear Outlook: please to be giving me email addresses and KNOCK OFF THIS NAME SHIT. [13:54] lol [14:00] grrr... apt and dpkg are great... until they aren't. [14:11] I'm impressed. Our IT folks have created the unclickable and un-copy-paste-able link. [14:11] In a PDF, no less. [14:12] underline and color blue in an image! [14:12] No, even better [14:12] all my docs are png. its "secure" [14:13] has all sorts of meta characters in it. [14:13] It's awesome. [14:13] kewl [14:24] wow, so it was on purpose? [14:25] greg-g: Not to my knowledge [14:26] oh, then, holy cow they're "special" [14:26] I think it's just someone's PDF generator "doing the right thing" [14:27] Christ, I think I figured out this Livemeeting thing [14:27] there's some tools package that made it work better. [14:28] But man, what a colossal pain in the ass [14:35] Seems to be a theme. ;) [14:39] tools causing pains in your ass is the theme? [14:41] brousch: dude, do you see what you did to The_Machine? He joined, you said that, then he left probably very scared by what might be said next! ;) [14:42] oh good, they're back [14:42] but he's back. he was actually intrigued [14:42] haha [14:42] * The_Machine grins [14:42] i can't help myself. [14:42] greg-g: i like how you did not assume The_Machine's gender [14:42] you shouldn't. [14:43] i know, that is why greg-g is at least 10x more awesome than i am [14:43] brousch: I did at first, but then I unassumed it [14:43] * The_Machine is a eunuch [14:43] duly noted [14:43] i suppose "it" would've been the best choice [14:44] The_Machine: have we met in real life? [14:44] i don't believe so.. though i've met my share of IRC'ers [14:44] i haven't been to a meetup or anything [14:44] Gotcha [14:44] I'm in Ann Arbor, and mostly go to things around there and in Detroit [14:45] So, assuming we haven't met, welcome to the channel and nice to meet you :) [14:45] word. i'm formerly from ferndale, now a nomad [14:45] awesome [14:45] ah, i've been coming here for a long time :) [14:45] but i don't fire up IRC too often [14:45] wait, do you talk? [14:45] ahh [14:45] I don't remember any conversations we've had, oops :) [14:45] no worries [14:45] so, welcome to my longer term memory ;) [14:46] actually, now that I am talking [14:46] I used ubuntu, fedora, etc. for my primary OS at my last job a few years ago [14:46] and right now i'm so heavily windows focused I can't afford to do that [14:46] are you who Andrews Eldritch was singing about when he sang "I hear the roar of the big Machine" ? [14:46] but i'd love to go deeper, but don't have the time [14:46] any classes in the area you would recommend? [14:46] The_Machine: ahh, time. the eternal problem [14:46] jrwren: I think we're the only folks who got that joke. ;) [14:46] i'm more on the win sysadmin side right now [14:47] snap-l: i figured. [14:47] but i'm willing to leave the dark side eventually [14:47] The_Machine: classes? I can't think of one, unfortunately. [14:47] snap-l: so it was for your benefit [14:47] heh [14:47] i know that macomb community college offers some [14:47] The_Machine: though, I would suggest hitting up some of the LUGs/other user groups around the area [14:47] ahh, snap-l might know more about Macomb than I [14:47] Only a little bit [14:47] The_Machine: windows isn't hte dark side, freebsd and gentoo is the darkside. [14:47] mostly from a faculty perspective. [14:48] i know nothing about them (outside of having heard of them a lot from forums, /., etc [14:48] * greg-g nods [14:48] i know i'll get flamed [14:48] by why are they the dark side? [14:48] so, MUG (mug.org) is good, but 45 minute drive from A2. They meet monthly. [14:48] The_Machine: i learned a lot by just trying to replace windows services with linux. you could start there. you don't really need classes for that. [14:49] no flames. this is a flame free zone. [14:49] it is? [14:49] no flames. this is a flame free zone. [14:49] WLUG is also good for your basics as well. Friendly folks run that one. Really, the folks running these groups are all friendly. [14:49] yea, mostly wanted to not waste anyone's time [14:50] The_Machine: so you're on the east side of michigan? [14:50] oh, no one who is at one of those groups will think talking about Linux with someone wanting to get back involved/more involved is a waste of time [14:50] in bloomfield at the moment [14:51] The_Machine: I'd recommend heading to MUG [14:51] * The_Machine nods [14:51] The_Machine: It's on the Second Tuesday of every month, and is very friendly. [14:51] oh, then you'd want MUG, yeah [14:51] Macomb Twp? or just county? [14:51] oakland county [14:52] Macomb CC is county [14:52] oh, you saic Macomb CC, so i figured you were near there. [14:52] i just know macomb college was offering linux classes [14:52] oh, you're my way [14:52] that's why i mentioned it [14:52] * jrwren confused. [14:52] I'm sure OCC offers 'em too... but classes are so... meh. :) [14:52] is your nat router messed up or something? [14:52] dropping you every few minutes? [14:52] I'm sure OCC offers 'em too... but classes are so... meh. :) [14:52] this connection is awful [14:53] no, i'm on a guest network [14:53] yea, OCC blows for CS classes [14:53] I'm not sure MCC is much better [14:53] OK, time for meeting. [14:54] good luck with the transfer :) [14:55] Thanks. :) [14:55] OU isn't good either ;( [15:00] and expensive and slightly evil. [15:08] remember my recent large pdf printing/conversion problems? it turns out this is an increasingly common problem, at least for people with our type of plotter (KIP). i'm thinking about putting together a pre-printing conversion box to alleviate some of the pain [15:09] pre-printing...seems a bit impossible to print before you print [15:09] convert the troublesome pdfs to tif [15:09] drop them into a watched folder, convert them on a multi-cpu server (or the cloud), email when it's done [15:11] slap a nice gui on it and it seems like a real product [15:15] Oh, this is brilliant. [15:15] at a minimum it would be a nice open source project for people like me [15:15] I finished my demo already. [15:15] scheduled time 1:30 [15:15] ut oh [15:16] yay! mission complete [15:26] heh, yay for being done early. and ooops, done early :) [15:31] 'The word "hacker" evokes all kinds of scary images.'..... It does? [15:32] http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/08/03/jeff.moss.black.hat/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 [15:33] o_O [15:33] so... 15minutes instead of 90 minutes? how did you do that? [15:37] Wolfger: yes? [15:38] for CNN's target audience [15:43] Blazeix: even if you subscribe to the common misconception that hacker == criminal, I still don't think many people view them as "scary" [15:44] Wolfger: have your identify stolen lately? [15:44] I guess we'll just disagree then. I think most people view hackers as people that will mess up their facebook and steal data [15:44] yea [15:44] I'm with Blazeix here [15:48] most people also believe in god and eat mcdonalds. and think that miley cyrus is cool and/or cute. [15:48] but its a real bummer that the hacker v. cracker definition cause hasn't made progress [15:49] rick_h_: no. Blazeix: I don't think "mess up your facebook" counts as scary, and most people practically give their data away (i.e. to Facebook and Zynga games) [15:49] the people that would forward the cause don't care because they know the diff [15:50] Wolfger: right, but to my wife it's scary if someone gets to their facebook data [15:50] she doesn't consider it "giving her data away" [15:50] fair enough [15:50] it's just normal use [15:50] I guess I'm too far removed from normal folk [15:50] you should reeducate her. [15:50] facebook owns allyour shit. [15:51] I try, but come across as a bit of a crazy when I try to say that you can't talk to your friends on there any more [15:51] talk is fine. [15:51] just know that its just like email... they are watching it all. [15:51] and as for photos/video... they own it all. [15:51] yea, I try to get that across and all [15:51] you gave it to them. [15:52] but still, if someone got in there and changed/added stuff she'd feel violoated/scary [15:52] maybe you should do that to shake her up a bit :) [15:52] that being said, google has access to all my email and pictures [15:53] and they scan through it for advertisements [15:53] i try not to use any of that shit. [15:53] duckduckgo FTW [15:53] at least picasa's privacy policy is more reasonable. [15:53] I use ddg for searches, but they're lacking in the email provider department [15:53] with facebook they can use those photos and resell them [15:53] email - run your own :) [15:54] or use a $3/mo web host email account [15:54] yea, because that'll be safer from the hackers [15:54] :P [15:54] i trust bluehost... a little. [15:55] but I don't use their email. [15:55] i've run my own for too long. i like running it [15:56] trust google. your data is valuable to them [15:59] that's one way to put it [16:01] I used to run my own website and my own e-mail. Then some hacker decided to start using my domain name to send spam, and things went downhill very rapidly. Didn't have the time, patience, or resources to deal with it, so I just gave it all up, moved to Blogger and Gmail. [16:02] Bah, you can secure things pretty well. ;) [16:04] i have the time an patience. [16:04] SPF works surprisingly well for that case [16:05] same reason I dumped Gentoo... decided I had better things to do with my time :-p [16:06] Let Google pay somebody to deal with my problems [16:14] Gah, that's done. [16:41] The good news is I think I still have a job. [16:42] congratulations, snap-l. [16:42] i guess? [16:42] did you want to keep your job, or did you want to join the ranks of the unclean? [16:44] i'd love to be unemployed, but I'm too scared. [16:45] i live with my mommy [16:50] i am calling the bank for last payment on my condo. [16:50] so similar cost of living ;) [16:51] <_stink_> nice! [16:53] nice. congrats on paying off the condo! [16:54] brousch: is up http://blip.tv/pyohio/django-and-google-app-engine-why-i-m-using-flask-and-amazon-ec2-5437519 [16:56] woot [16:57] gamerchick02: Well, my budget wanted me to keep my job [16:58] my budget does too ;( [16:58] hah! makes sense. [16:58] jrwren: Awesome on keeping up with your condo payments! [16:58] although... i seriously think I should just get rid of vonage. [16:58] you're not independently wealthy. [16:59] vonage? i've never used it. [17:03] its just $17/mo for phone over the internet that I rarely use. [17:04] brousch: Funny enough, I know Kathleen from Hope [17:04] jrwren: we do the same with broadvoice [17:04] I keep wanting to cancel it [17:04] but my mom calls the number occasionally, and things that "can't be a cell phone" are tied to that number. [17:04] wife feels better that there's a "home phone" [17:04] last time I tried to cancel vonage, they talked me into staying by getting me on a super low usage plan that they don't even advertise. [17:04] <_stink_> we have the same home phone argument. [17:04] since it stayed under $20/mo, I agreed. [17:05] i've said for 5-6 yrs - as long as we've had the vonage - that I'd get a UPS for the cable modem and vonage so that phone would still work without power... but i have not done it. [17:12] i move, i'll get a basic telephone service just so i can run DSL [17:13] not sure though. [17:21] cable modem is LOTS faster where I am at. [17:31] rick_h_: thanks for the heads up [17:31] snap-l: the girl's name was jessica [17:34] Thenk you have the wrong person [17:34] At least I never knew her as Jessica [17:37] not cmdr taco's wife, a girl he dated before that [17:37] Ah, OK [17:37] at least according to her [17:37] I feel we've had this conversation before. :) [17:37] indeed [17:38] we're like old married people now, telling the same old stories [17:40] ug. this talk is painful to watch [17:44] man, I didn't even recognize Wil Wheaton on Eureka. [17:55] brousch: Dude, youdid fine [17:55] Don't second-guess your talks. [17:55] it got better after the first few minutes [17:56] i like that the video guy switched to showing just the slides so you don't see me just reading [17:59] reading???? [17:59] no reading allowed! [17:59] leave it jrwren :P [17:59] he did good, got people thinking which was cool [18:11] dayum. i started testing my pdf conversion script on a new batch of pdfs. it sucks up 3GB [18:11] of ram [18:14] what were you doing with it anyways? [18:15] converting it from pdf to tif using imagemagick [18:16] i think these are 36"x48", which is the biggest we deal with [18:19] (36in*400dpi)*(48in*400dpi)*8bpp = really fing big [18:22] dropping to 300dpi keeps it out of my swap [18:56] oh very nice. these pdfs were apparently produced using PDFTron's PDFNET software, and they are being flagged as badly formed. http://www.pdftron.com/ [18:56] the web site doesn't even load for me [19:02] brousch: $('#calc').bind('click', function (ev) { [19:02] ev.preventDefault(); [19:02] $($g.EVID).trigger($g.events.recalc); [19:02]