snap-lYeah, I know. Health insurance is great as long as you don't get sick.00:00
greg-gbut then you feel like a schmuck for paying so much each month00:03
snap-lGood evening02:44
snap-lGah, I'm feeling really dumb about these sessions03:44
snap-lTrying to update an episode to be downloaded03:44
snap-land figuring out the special syntax sauce for this is driving me nuts.03:45
snap-lI can see why people don't like SQLAlchemy03:45
snap-lI mean, I'd like to have it just do episode.downloaded = True03:46
snap-land just have it work03:46
snap-lBut instead I have to wrap it in a manager class, and blah blah blah blah03:47
jrwrenjust write an update statement :)03:49
BlazeixI only have a very basic knowledge of sqlalchemy, but isn't the manager pattern self-imposed?03:49
BlazeixI'd think you'd do somethig like session.update(episode) to actually do the update03:50
Blazeixafter setting episode.downloaded = true03:50
snap-lI don't have the vocabulary to explain03:51
Blazeixawesome project name :P03:52
snap-lpiddlepodder was the original. ;)03:52
snap-lmade it really easy to do a google-alert.03:53
Blazeixok, it seems like if you get the episode from the db via some query, you should be able to say something like episode.downloaded = True03:59
Blazeixthen maybe you have to flush the session / commit the transaction03:59
snap-land I'm not sure how to get that to happen04:00
Blazeixbut if it's just an individual episode you're updating, I don't see any reason to deal with a manager04:00
Blazeixdoes session.flush() not work?04:00
snap-lAsking in sqlalchemy if there's a way to make it so that if that flag changes, it'll just write it04:00
snap-lI'm not sure where to put the session-handling code04:01
snap-lFrankly, this manager pattern is a pain in the ass. :)04:01
Blazeixif you want to get fancy you could make a transaction decorator that would handle everything for you04:01
snap-lI understand why it's needed, but it's really making things annoying. ;)04:01
BlazeixI think I like the manager pattern, assuming it's no different from the repository pattern.04:02
Blazeixah, when you commit(), flush() happens automatically04:04
snap-lbloody hell, even setting autocommit=True in the session_maker doesn't manage to do the commits04:06
_stink_hah, 30 seconds ago i was screwing with the same thing in sqlalchemy :P04:09
_stink_but mine's in a fabfile in a pyramid project and i had a nice example in bookie.04:09
Blazeixso what would it do ideally for you? issue a sql statement after every single property change?04:09
snap-lReason being that once a file is downloaded, that's the last time I want to download it04:10
snap-lwas the whole reason for piddlepodder in the first place (vs. bashpodder)04:11
BlazeixI'd be surprised if that functionality existed, generally for ORMs I think the pattern is `get object, manipulate the hell out of object, save object`04:11
Blazeixso it issues an update statement after you're done making _all_ your changes04:11
snap-lTHat's not my use case at all04:11
snap-lI don't need a cache, I just need persistence04:11
Blazeixin the future could you potentially add a 'last retrieved date' ?04:12
Blazeixthat would make your use case more align with the orm04:12
Blazeixwe should ping rick_h_ :)04:12
snap-lI'm not sure that would help04:12
snap-lHere's the scenario:04:12
snap-lstart up session, get latest feeds, start processing04:13
snap-ldeedle deedle dee04:13
snap-lsuddenly, power cuts out04:13
snap-lor program aborts... something04:13
snap-lwhat's the state? do I have to download those files again?04:13
snap-lideally, once the file is downloaded, I just tick it off, and that's the end of it04:14
Blazeixok, so can you just commit after each download?04:14
snap-lIf I knew how, yes. ;)04:14
snap-lBut this session bullshit is making me think that nbody writes sqlalchemy that passes between files.04:15
snap-lOr you have to be a rockstar like rick_h_ to figure it out.04:15
snap-lI tried putting it in the manager class, but that didn't seem to work out too well. Seemed more complicated than it needed to be.04:16
Blazeixso if in __init__.py you said "from models import Session"04:16
Blazeixthen called Session.commit(), what happens?04:16
Blazeixsince Session is defined in your models.py04:16
Blazeixcalled "Session.commit()" immediately after you set downloaded=True)(04:17
snap-lHah, no transaction is begun.04:17
Blazeixdo you still have autocommit=True?04:18
Blazeixtry making that False, if so. autocommit=True does transaction funniness.04:18
snap-lOh FFS.04:18
snap-lOK, added the session04:19
snap-land added "Session.begin()" and "Session.commit() to wrap the transaction.04:19
snap-land that seemed to work.04:19
Blazeixok, that's with autocommit=True, right?04:19
Blazeixso you should be able to remove autocommit=True (so it's false), and remove your Session.begin()04:20
Blazeixif I'm reading the docs right04:20
snap-lTrying that now04:20
snap-lI'm sure rick_h_ will yell at us for this in the AM.04:20
snap-lAwesome. That appears to work04:21
Blazeixwell, I'll be asleep when that happens, so you'll take brunt of the force :P04:21
snap-lGoing to commit the code I have.04:21
snap-lThanks for the assist!04:21
Blazeixno problem. it's kind of fun to compare this to the C#/Java world of ORMs.04:22
rick_h_looks like I missed all the fun11:24
brouschme too, apparently11:26
snap-lHood moening11:42
snap-lNice. I  can type11:42
rick_h_snap-l: so let me know when you're ready for the sqlalchemy discussion to resume. I'll let you get your coffee first11:45
snap-lho boy11:46
brouschcoffee's not strong enough11:47
brouschgo for shots of espresso11:47
rick_h_dammit, my talk still isn't up11:47
snap-lTrying to get a zit off of my eyelid11:48
snap-lSo typing w/ one hand while holding a microwaved washcloth11:48
snap-lwith one eye open11:49
WolfgerI cannot imagine a worse place to have a zit11:49
brouschseriously wtf man11:50
snap-lTRust me, not my idea11:50
WolfgerI don't know...12:02
WolfgerIs this the "it wasn't my idea" that comes after something in your plan goes awry?12:02
WolfgerI've seen that before...12:02
snap-lHar har12:04
Wolfger"You know what'd be hard core? A zit on my eyelid. That's be so badas-ow! Ow, ow, ow! Who's idea was this?"12:08
WolfgerI can't believe I typed that.... s/who\'s/whose/12:34
Wolfgermaybe I should actually sleep tonight. :-p12:34
Wolfgerok, Identica is dead to me.12:41
Wolfgercan't log in, can't log in with OpenID, can't recover password12:41
brouschthey kicked you out for not being freetarded enough12:43
Wolfgerquite possibly12:43
snap-lWolfger: They have a support channel.12:57
WolfgerWhat some people don't get, is that everybody is dumb (about certain things)13:07
WolfgerLots of people are dumb about computers. Others are dumb about sports. I'm pretty dumb about cars (and I work where?)...13:08
WolfgerWhen you're a professional in a field, lots and lots of other people look dumb. But when you step into their field of expertise, chances are that you look dumb too.13:09
nullspaceI don't think IE users are dumb, ignorant...maybe13:33
nullspacethen there are the thousands who are forced to use IE because their company forces them adhear to policy13:33
snap-lIt's a hoax. You're OK.13:34
snap-lNobody is calling you dumb13:34
snap-lunless you're suing that hoaxer, in which case I'm calling you dumn13:34
nullspaceI understand that13:35
nullspacebut I was citing my opinion rather than a rebuttal13:36
Wolfgerignorant is just another word for "too dumb to know better" :-D13:38
Wolfgernow being forced to use IE is different. In those cases, the policy maker is dumb :-)13:39
nullspacebut they are still an IE user13:39
brouschthey are dumb for working at a company that enforces an IE-only policy13:39
nullspaceI think it's pretty clear that broad sweeping generalizations are half truths at best13:39
nullspacebrousch: if they paid you enough I don't think you'd care13:40
Wolfgertrue dat13:40
brouschmy price to be foreced to use IE is quite high13:40
brouschit is hard to give up freedom once you've tasted it13:41
* Wolfger continues to work with the underground resistance13:42
nullspaceIE 9 isn't so bad, they are following standards now13:42
brouschbut you also have to use Windows13:43
nullspaceyou try setting up a L2TP IPSEC VPN client on linux13:43
nullspacewindows has it's place just as linux does13:44
nullspaceoh man what was the name that symantic gave their network based anti-virius suites13:51
jjesse.cloud or something like that?14:10
snap-lrick_h_: The student is ready. Will the master appear? :)14:24
rick_h_heh, ok14:25
rick_h_snap-l: ^^ that's basically what it boils down to14:26
rick_h_oh, and never do auto anything, it's a sure sign of trouble since you don't really understand/konw what's going on14:27
snap-lRight, but wasn't sure how to get the session into the file that i'm using.14:27
rick_h_you can just import it14:27
rick_h_from models import Session14:27
snap-lI was just having trouble with syntax14:27
rick_h_you can add it to the top with the rest of the models14:27
rick_h_right, but you're commiting in a loop14:28
rick_h_commit() basically finishes the transaction14:28
snap-lWhich is what I want14:28
rick_h_naw, a flush will do14:28
rick_h_with a Session.commit() at the end of your script14:28
snap-lIf the loop fails for whatever reason I don't want to lose the work I've done14:29
rick_h_try: finally: Session.commit()14:29
snap-l(why is this hard to explain to people)14:29
rick_h_snap-l: that's fine, but then you need to manually manage the transaction14:29
snap-lIf there is a power failure, I don't want to have to redownload everything14:29
snap-lAnd by "manually manage the transaction", how is my commit in the loop not doing that? :)14:31
rick_h_you session auto creates a transaction. .commit() finishes it14:32
rick_h_so you'll hit stuff where you need to start a new one each time14:32
snap-lRight, and the unit of work is episode downloaded, write to the database.14:32
snap-land it's at this point that I'm starting to think that ORMs are a huge pain in the ass.14:33
snap-lor at least not fitting my idea of what should be going on with my data.14:34
rick_h_http://www.mail-archive.com/pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com/msg17220.html or http://www.sqlalchemy.org/docs/orm/session.html#sqlalchemy.orm.session.Session.__init__ for autocommit14:37
rick_h_the thing is that usually people don't want to do this.14:38
rick_h_the download should be outside of this, async, and a trigger to mark the record updated on it's own14:38
rick_h_but yea, you can do things the way you want, but it's not the default because it's poor porformance for most workloads14:38
snap-lrick_h_: Right, that's a tradeoff I'm willing to take. :)14:40
snap-lworst case for even the best case of download transfer is a commit a second.14:41
snap-lThanks for the pointer. I'll make this a little more sane. :)14:43
Wolfger"reality TV" has jumped the shark... http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1107/bearding.whisker.wars/content.1.html14:44
greg-gWolfger: dude, I am so excited for that show! The first time ever since Real World (the first season) was over!14:47
WolfgerSeriously? I'm a fan of facial hair, but a TV show about a facial hair competition?14:48
snap-lWolfger: If this is the first time you think that reality TV has jumped the shark, you haven't been paying attention14:50
WolfgerI'm pretty certain I've said it's jumped the shark before, too14:50
greg-gyou've jumped the shark!14:51
greg-gactually, that'd be pretty sweet if you pulled a fonzie14:51
Wolfgerwhat, do something totally out of character that makes no sense?14:53
greg-gno, ski jumping over a fricking shark, man14:54
Wolfgerwell, that would count as something out of character that makes no sense...14:54
Wolfgerand it would be cool, I guess14:55
Wolfgeras long as I don't break a limb on landing14:55
greg-gif you can't tell, I'm seriously checked out from my job right now, even though I keep getting these damned requests to do lots of work before I leave14:58
brouschgreg-g, the lame-duck librarian15:00
snap-lgreg-g: When are you leaving the mitten?15:01
greg-gAug 10th15:09
greg-glast day of work is Aug 9th15:09
greg-gbrousch: my boss even called me today (she is traveling right now) and said "Sorry about all these things we're asking you to do, you should be doing nothing right now"15:10
brouschand you probably would be if you didn't actually care about your job ;)15:10
greg-gyeah, damn my sense of responsibility!15:12
brouschit helps that you're not working for a soulless corp of evil15:13
* brousch glances at snap-l15:13
snap-lbrousch: Sorry, I would care about that statement had I not checked my soul in at the door.15:15
nullspacerick_h_: any interest in helping orgnaize a barCamp at i3 this coming Fall?16:01
rick_h_nullspace: sorry, not this fall. Getting conference'd out16:16
Wolfgeruh-oh. I never realized rick_h_ was a scarce resource. We've been taking it for granted. :-(16:18
rick_h_just bookie needs some serious love. Too distracted over pyohio16:21
rick_h_and we're going to try to refire lococast, so some work there16:21
rick_h_and then I've got to talk at this 1devday in Nov16:21
snap-lgreat, im getting refired on lococast17:19
Wolfgerwasn't getting fired once enough for you?17:19
snap-lI'm not sure if I can collect unemployment. ;)17:40
jrwrenno lococast?17:45
snap-ljrwren: More of a reboot than anything17:45
Blazeixit will focus on Mac OS X this time around17:46
jrwrenoh no!17:46
snap-lTHough i don't think it's as much of a reboot because we're just doing what we've always done17:46
snap-ljust not focusing as much on the Ubuntu Loco foo17:46
brouschpoop on that. i'm unsubscribing17:53
rick_h_yea, snap-l and I are arguing semantics18:06
rick_h_It's going to turn more into the lococast dev show18:06
rick_h_screw the loco, who cares about that any more :P18:06
rick_h_sorry greg-g :/18:07
rick_h_I'm lacking the 'care about ubuntu' spirit these days18:07
greg-gs'ok, but we're so much more than just Ubuntu in here!18:09
rick_h_no definitely :)18:09
rick_h_not /wc'ing here18:09
rick_h_jsut not going to try to find podcast material out of hte ubuntu world any more18:10
* greg-g nods18:10
Wolfgerthe ubuntu world is too small and inbred18:10
Wolfgerhard to find anything that hasn't already been talked to death, or soon will be18:10
greg-gtrue of anything18:12
rick_h_yea, that's not it18:12
rick_h_just that if you're going to keep up with new, sift through it, and add meaningful twist to it, you have to care18:12
_stink_i feel the same way about ubuntu... i love *this* community in this chan18:13
_stink_and i use it18:13
_stink_but i don't really care what's done with it.18:13
_stink_since i'll just install my own stuff anyway18:13
_stink_if someone asked me what the benefit is... i guess i'd say PPAs18:14
ColonelPanic001I toss around the idea of just using plain debian sometimes, but I like that, at least compared to when I used to use deb unstable, Ubuntu is a little more polished, etc18:15
brouscheven in kde land?18:16
brouschthe blue headed stepchild?18:16
ColonelPanic001yeah, back then at least, deb unstable was sometimes living up to its name, seemed like18:16
ColonelPanic001and stable was still using 1.0.0 kernel or something18:17
ColonelPanic001I may exaggerate a little.18:17
snap-lI think the real problem is that it's become too forma18:17
WolfgerKubuntu was nicely polished before KDE4...18:17
ColonelPanic001I like KDE4 fine18:17
snap-lNow it's like we have to be excited and shit just to keep our resgistration18:17
* Wolfger considers going back to Mepis18:17
ColonelPanic001I don't have a problem with ubuntu, just don't really use the main thing, since 90% of the hype of it is Gnome18:17
snap-lI'm sorry, but I can't get too excited about the changes.18:18
Wolfgersnap-l: considering the words I'm hearing, they'll probably blacklist us rather than re-up our registration :-p18:18
snap-lThat's fine.18:18
brouschoooooh, a rogue loco?18:18
WolfgerColonelPanic001: KDE4 is fine now that it's a little more mature, but Kubuntu never recovered to its previous state.18:19
snap-lI guess I'm having a hard time getting excited anymore.18:19
jjessei find kubuntu quite easily used18:19
Wolfger./join #mi-loco18:19
brouschsnap-l: there are drugs for that18:19
snap-lbrousch: Maybe I need them18:19
brouschcheck your spam folder18:20
snap-lFeeling pretty meh lately.18:20
Wolfgerjjesse: maybe it's just my hardware then. Kubuntu blows hard on my laptop18:20
snap-lMaybe it's that the pendulum is about to swing back18:20
Wolfgerand Ubuntu does not18:20
Wolfgerbut Unity does18:21
brouschI'm not particularly excited about Ubuntu, but I'm more excited about it than any other distro18:21
snap-lbrousch: That's definitely true18:21
jjessewhy should i be excited about a particular distro?  shouldn't i care about shit working correctly?18:21
Wolfgerbrousch: come with me to Gentoo. You'll get excited all over again. :-)18:21
snap-ljjesse: And we have a bingo18:21
brouschWolfger: suicidal is not the same as excited18:22
snap-lWolfger: "Holy fuck, it compiled and worked, and only broke half of the shit on my laptop"18:22
brouschwho compiles?18:22
snap-lbrousch: Gentoo18:22
snap-lGotta suck the marrow from your CPU one cycle at a time18:22
Wolfgerman... brousch dissed Gentoo without even knowing it compiled everything from source?18:23
jjessethere is a lot of cool kde stuff coming out though18:23
jjessethat's exciting, but i don't care what distro it runs on18:23
Wolfgerjjesse: I'll get excited about any distro that gives me a good KDE experience again18:23
snap-lAlso, I have a headache and am on Claritin, which makes me even more bitchy18:24
_stink_at least it's not 95 degrees. :)18:24
snap-lbut I've been feeling that a lot lately18:24
snap-l_stink_: true, that really makes me bitchy18:24
snap-lAnother big factor is feeling the need to get rid of a lot of cruft18:24
brouschsnap-l: is it the change of life?18:24
Wolfgerit is, aside from being overcast, beautiful weather outside18:24
snap-lbrousch: This pirate is definitely looking at 40, yes18:25
brouschyou should've kicked me when you had the chance18:25
snap-lbrousch: Told you, I was probably supposed to hit you for something, but I was too excited to see you. :)18:25
greg-gawww, that is the best male2male "I love you" I've ever seen!18:28
_stink_ /join #male2male18:28
_stink_anyone? no?18:30
* greg-g is there18:33
* _stink_ gives greg-g one cookie.18:33
_stink_now that's going to be in my history for a while18:34
Wolfgerit lives on the internet forever18:36
_stink_good thing no one i know knows how to use the internet.18:36
brouschgreg-g: :P18:37
greg-git's so lonely in #male2male18:42
greg-gI have a feeling it might stay that way until I least expect it18:43
WolfgerI would be there in a heartbeat if I wasn't at work18:43
_stink_it could be an advice for new fathers18:44
_stink_advice chan18:44
Wolfgersure it could18:44
rick_h_hah, awesome18:45
Wolfgerbut then it would be called #dad2dad18:45
_stink_#dad2dad?? that clearly has an alternate meaning.18:45
brouschi'm getting major props at work for an app i built yesterday18:47
greg-gbrousch: cool!18:47
Wolfgergood job18:48
_stink_i just tried it18:48
brouschthe mill we buy steel from has to be within 500 miles of the job site for certain hippie green credits18:48
_stink_i confess i don't get it.18:48
_stink_ah, ok18:48
brouschyeah, not much explanation on there.18:49
Wolfgerwhat does it have to do with LEED?18:49
Wolfgernm, just read it18:49
brouschit's quite silly when you think about it, but hey, that's the govt for you18:49
rick_h_nice brousch18:49
greg-goh, that is neat looking when you search the address, but shouldn't it center the view of the map to the center of the circle (where the star is) each time?18:49
brouschgreg-g: thanks, now i have 3 bugs ;)18:50
Wolfgergreg-g is so negative18:50
brouschdo not look at the source code. you will cry18:50
_stink_and sort by miles, smallest to largest?18:50
greg-gbrousch: I'm not allowed, bitbucket is asking for a user/pass18:50
brouschheh, it's javascript18:51
greg-goh, well, there is that18:51
brouschall of the mills are hard-coded in the javascript18:51
jjesseso if i put my address w/ no city and no zip it still generates a list of places for me18:51
jjessehow does it now that?18:51
brouschjjesse: it's based on whatever google's geocoding api returns18:51
brouschso probably google's best guess at what you meant18:52
jjessebut if i put in a bogus address it still works18:52
greg-gbtw, #dad2dad is also lonely18:52
jjesseso 4079 Park East Grand Rapids UT still reports18:53
jjesseand puts the cirlce in UT18:53
_stink_hah, i just put in "hargle bargle lane"18:53
brouschright, so google's best guess18:53
_stink_closest mill: Kalamazoo18:54
greg-glooks like you can't do any jobs in Anchorage, AK18:54
brouschwell, no jobs that qualify for that LEED level/credit/whatever18:55
* greg-g nods18:55
brouschthe mill list is not complete18:55
rick_h_anyone ever heard of anything in here? https://docs.google.com/a/mitechie.com/document/pub?id=1X5JAReZ-VM1DrD8BY-RsY9UCsT5so4IeLlTlYaYbeLI&pli=119:10
rick_h_the companies/etc?19:10
snap-lI've heard of Quicken Loans19:16
snap-lFathead does wall graphics (I think they're local)19:17
snap-lFathead is local (livonia)19:18
snap-lHo boy19:19
snap-lDavid Katzman David is the founder and Managing Partner of Camelot Venture Group. He also is a member of the Board of Directors for Sharper Image online, CleanRest, ePrize, and Simplex Diabetics.19:19
brouschi've heard of sharper image, quicken loans, 1-800-contacts, fathead,19:37
brouschouch. $10,000/yr to put that app behind a paywall or move off the public internet19:53
rick_h_brousch: huh?19:54
brouschthat leed app19:54
rick_h_who's charging $10k?19:55
brousch$10,000/yr for a license from google to allow for-pay service or firewall it19:55
rick_h_oh, gotcha19:55
brouschthe boss got big dollar signs in his eyes, i had to crush them19:55
jjessecan you use openstreet view or whatever ?19:56
_stink_rewrite google maps!19:56
brousch_stink_: that's definitely high on my priority list19:56
brouschjjesse: that's a good question19:57
_stink_put me on your corporate board please19:57
rick_h_me too, I use maps so I'm totally qualified to help guide your new startup19:57
jjessei like to get paid for doing nothing so put me on your board19:57
brouschoooh, leedtools.us isn't taken19:58
brouschopenstreetmap is CC-BY-SA20:00
brouschi think that means i can't sell it20:01
snap-lAs long as there isn't a NC in there, you should be OK, as long as you attribute, and share20:02
brouschCan I charge for distributing OSM data or data derived from OSM data?Yes. You can charge any amount of money you want for any service or data you provide. However, since the data (or service) that is derived from OSM data must be licensed as above, other people may then redistribute this without payment.20:04
snap-lso, you can use it commercially20:05
brouschthe only real data i'm using is the geocoder to get a lat/lng from an address, and then map tiles20:06
rick_h_docs docs docs23:45
_stink_holy jeebus, unicode in python 2.7 is ANNOYING23:49
rick_h_lol, well it's gotten better23:49
rick_h_but it's prepping for 323:49
_stink_any advice on generating a random unicode string?  mostly curious at this point.23:51
_stink_i can generate all kinds of random bytes, but of course, most of it is not unicode.23:52
rick_h_some example strings in there23:54
_stink_well, i think i get unicode ok.23:55
_stink_i mean, how it's handled.23:55
rick_h_what's the issue?23:55
_stink_i was trying to see if i could generate a random unicode string.23:55
_stink_i can generate all kinds of random bytes, but of course, most of it is not unicode.23:56
rick_h_well, you want utf-8 bytes?23:56
rick_h_so you'd want to do 'x\uxxxx'23:58
rick_h_where xxxx is a random hex value from 0000 through FFFF23:59
_stink_that clicks23:59
_stink_thanks, man.23:59
rick_h_np, had to look it up myself23:59

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