micahgwell, xfce 4.10 is supposed to be focused on polish01:33
micahgcharlie-tca: I could reupload xubuntu-default-settings if I knew what to put in lightdm.conf01:48
micahgbut I figure it's too late at this point01:49
charlie-tcaI am not re-spinning again. If the images fail to install now, we won't have them02:25
charlie-tcaI went to dinner and just got back.02:32
micahgk, np02:41
charlie-tcaI have 8 installs to do before the release. It isn't going to happen03:16
charlie-tcaI will get one in tonight03:16
charlie-tcamicahg: still can not install from desktop images. I have no choice but kill the milestone03:31
micahgcharlie-tca: wow, so Monday didn't help :(, aren't the alternates ok?03:32
charlie-tcaCan not encrypt /home 03:33
charlie-tcaI am killing the entire set03:33
micahgk, better safe than sorry03:33
micahglet me know if something I can fix needs fixing03:33
charlie-tcaIt's really frustrating, considering I waited 8 hours yesterday for a fix that was supposed to take care of it, and waited again today 6 hours for the fix03:34
charlie-tcaIt's not really safe, it is a matter of not usable03:34
charlie-tcaMonday I could install all the images. Today I can not03:35
charlie-tcaIt's something Ubuntu pushed into the images03:35
Unit193Seems nothing I can help with :/03:45
charlie-tcabug 82073103:49
ubottuLaunchpad bug 820731 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Oneiric Ocelot Xubuntu Desktop images fail to install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/82073103:49
charlie-tcaWell, considering I won't get nothing else done tonight, and the images will release tomorrow morning, it would take someone working however many hours to fix it and test them again03:50
charlie-tcaand they have about 12 hours total to get it done03:50
charlie-tcaThey have thrown fixes at it for two days and it still fails03:51
charlie-tcaAt least it makes the release notes real simple03:52
Unit193Know if all the rest are having them?03:52
charlie-tcaThey got Ubuntu fixed03:54
charlie-tcaI don't know if mythbuntu worked or not03:58
charlie-tcamicahg: I don't see any reason to publish alternate images that take a page of notes to explain to the user what to do if they log in to the wrong session04:03
charlie-tcasince nothing else works now, that seems like a bad thing for the user trying our cd04:04
micahgcharlie-tca: k, we could probably fix that, but I think it's too late at this point04:04
charlie-tcayes, I agree. Of course, all of it is fixable, with enough time.04:05
micahglet's get that stuff fixed in the archive at least this week if we can so upgraders from a2 aren't affected04:05
micahgthe double session I mean04:05
madnickochosi: have you had the chance to think about the progressbar? :)12:53
charlie-tcaWell, we have developers working on the issue with alpha3 not installing. 14:02
charlie-tcaMaybe we will actually get some of the issues fixed or at least worked today14:02
astraljavacharlie-tca: Cool, is the discussion over on IRC, or not publicly available?14:31
charlie-tca #ubuntu-testing, but I seem to be the only failing the installs. jibel said it worked 14:32
charlie-tcagot a feeling it ain't gonna go nowhere14:32
astraljavaI'll run tests both on VM and real hardware tonight, so we'll know soon enough.14:52
charlie-tcaI think I might have one computer with hardware that is failing now14:52
charlie-tcaI have three installs going on hardware, going to find out14:53
charlie-tcaI won't release the alpha3 images. They just aren't working15:54
charlie-tcaI have two machines with the same failure, 32bit and 64bit hardware. Any user that encrypts /home loses all data on the hardrive15:55
charlie-tcaseems really bad15:55
mr_pouitcharlie-tca: (re: lightdm & 2 xubuntu sessions) well, I did what was supposed to work. That's not my fault if lightdm has yeat another bug again. I could workaround that by setting "user-session=xubuntu" in lightdm.conf, but it defeats the whole default.desktop approach. :(15:59
charlie-tcayeah, I know. 16:00
charlie-tcaI just put some heat on Ubuntu devs to get this working right16:00
charlie-tcabut I can't release either, when these images are failing so bad16:01
mr_pouitat this rate, lightdm will be worse than gdm ;D16:01
charlie-tcaI agree. thinking about lxdm?16:01
charlie-tcaWe are going to have to do something soon. 16:01
charlie-tcaOTOH, it is not lightdm stopping the installs. 16:02
mr_pouitI haven't tried it recently. AFAIK Lubuntu intends to use lightdm as well anyway.16:02
mr_pouit(they only reverted to lxdm temporarily for the alpha 3)16:02
charlie-tcayes, because no one knows how the derivatives are going to be able to use lightdm. 16:03
charlie-tcathe way it is now, you take what ubuntu says or you fail16:03
Unit193They will move back to LightDM when it's working16:03
charlie-tcamr_pouit: this is what seems to be blocking my installs now:16:07
charlie-tca/usr/bin/casper-reconfigure: package 'gnome-power-manager' is not installed16:07
ochosimadnick: ping16:12
madnickochosi: im here :)16:14
micahgcharlie-tca: robert is supposed to solve the derivative how to use question when he gets back from the desktop summit16:16
charlie-tcayeah, well, that ain't gonna help us get alpha3 working at all :(16:17
charlie-tcaThat is really bad timing for it16:17
madnickochosi: now im acctually afk for 5 minutes, need to make a quick phone call16:18
ochosimadnick: np i'm also a bit on and off16:24
madnickochosi: okay, now im permanently back for the remainder of the night :)16:40
ochosiokeydokey :)16:45
ochosimadnick: do you have your plymouth stuff as svg?16:46
madnickOh sorry no, but i think knome has the drafts as something like that, because he was able to give me only specific elements16:47
ochosik, i see16:47
ochosiwell i have the wp, but not the logo i think16:47
madnicki think the logo is at artwork, let me check16:48
madnickhm, not the white one, but a coloured version exists16:49
ochosimhm, that's what i thought16:49
ochosiwell i can make it white, n16:49
madnickokay 16:50
ochosimadnick: do you need svg or png?17:00
madnickwell, for the production 17:01
ochosicause inkscape is such a friggin resource-hog sometimes17:01
ochosimadnick: very simple illustration of what i was talking about: http://imagebin.org/16638617:09
ochosithe grey circle is the background, the white would fill the grey17:10
madnickochosi: there is a little problem with that, filling a circle is possbile, but the waiting time does not nessensairly stop17:15
madnickthere is no indication of boot time17:15
ochosithere are several ways to deal with that17:15
ochosieither refill the circle several times until it's done17:16
ochosior make it more spinner like17:16
ochosiso mainly a small point that moves on the grey circle17:16
madnickokay, ill try to make something that you can judge :)17:16
ochosimadnick: the spinner could look something like this: http://imagebin.org/16639017:18
ochosior we can make a spinner a la firefox or osx17:18
ochosi(the thing that looks like a daisy)17:19
madnickokay, ill try to make a spinner first, then images can be swapped17:20
ochosiok nice!17:22
madnickochosi: i will be a bit delayed i think i hit a plymouth bug again17:57
ochosimadnick: no problem, i'll go to the cinema now to watch a movie, probably be back later or tomorrow17:58
madnickokay :)17:58
ochosibut if you ping me i'll definitely read/see it tomorrow17:58
madnickhehe, this makes me kinda dizzy :)18:09
davmor2madnick: well stop spinning around on the chair18:10
madnickdavmor2: im looking at a spinning animation for prolonged periods :P18:10
davmor2madnick: no you only think it's spining in reality it's your chair :D18:10
madnickochosi: i will need a fully transparent copy of the spinner :P but here: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/spinner.ogg18:26
madnickacctually, now that i think about, im not sure why i did not rotate the entire spinner, wouldve been much easier :(18:28
astraljavacharlie-tca: What image did you have trouble with? I could try that first.19:11
charlie-tcaboth destkop images19:12
astraljavaOkay, I'll try on real hardware then.19:13
charlie-tcaThat's what I used. both desktop images fail to install here19:16
charlie-tcaThey did install for jibel19:16
charlie-tcaunfortunately, no one knows why they failed for me19:16
charlie-tcabad enough one won't work, but to have two hardware systems failing at the same time with different arches...19:22
charlie-tcagot an answer. casper depends on gnome-power-manager, which we do not seed. gnome-power-manager is deprecated!19:38
charlie-tcaand the answer is: Why is gnome-power-manager required for casper?19:39
* micahg wonders what kubuntu does19:39
charlie-tcait seems it only affects some hardware19:40
charlie-tcaand I happen to own two systems affected19:40
micahgstill, kubuntu must have the same issue19:40
charlie-tcaI didn't try theirs19:40
micahgcan you please?  I would think they would be affected the same way19:41
charlie-tcaokay, I can grab kubuntu desktop image and try it19:41
astraljavaInstall splash still says I'm installing the latest version of Xubuntu, 11.0419:48
charlie-tcawe have a bug for that19:49
astraljavaOk, good.19:49
charlie-tcabug 81326719:51
ubottuLaunchpad bug 813267 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Plymouth says 11.04 in Oneiric" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/81326719:51
charlie-tcamadnick is going to fix that when we get the new plymouth all working :)19:51
* charlie-tca maybe forgot to tell madnick19:52
charlie-tcamicahg: suggestion has also been made to try both lubuntu and mythbuntu19:52
charlie-tcasince Ubuntu desktop worked19:52
astraljavaMine won't boot after the installation was completed, even though I hit the Restart now button.19:54
micahgcharlie-tca: neither one of those have that seeded in their desktop, I'm not sure about the live session19:56
charlie-tcaI don't know19:56
charlie-tcaastraljava: really?19:56
charlie-tcaI never quite got that far19:56
astraljavaYes, Ctrl+Alt+Del didn't help, had to to REISUB.19:56
knomeochosi, i don't like the circle idea19:57
charlie-tcaThe live session should auto-login the next build19:57
charlie-tcaI thought the circle was kind of neat19:57
charlie-tcabut my eyes are still really bad, too19:58
knomeit might be better with a semi-transparent non-active part19:58
astraljavaNow we have two Xubuntu Sessions in the dropdown box.19:58
knomethe unfileed circle is kind of weird, i think, and somehow it just doesn't "snap" visually with the loho19:58
charlie-tcaI am not prepared to ask either way, knome 19:58
knomeeither way what? :)19:58
charlie-tcaastraljava: yes, and if you pick the wrong one, there is a 12 step program to get you back to the right one19:59
astraljavaShould at least one of those be filled by default?20:00
charlie-tcaI wrote it down for you20:00
charlie-tcayes, but that is another bug20:00
astraljavaOh, you were being serious.20:00
charlie-tcait's been a bad three days of trying to test for me20:00
astraljavaSeems like it.20:01
charlie-tcaAt least it is only 6 steps to login to the live session, huh?20:02
charlie-tcaI guess I have had a bad day20:03
astraljavaTechnically, yeah 6 steps.20:07
astraljavaBut I liked the 12-step programme more. :D20:07
astraljavaI still can't create new shortcuts, though. /me scratches head20:10
charlie-tcayou can't ?20:12
charlie-tcaI can create a short note on how, if you want?20:12
charlie-tcabut I suspect that won't help you 20:12
madnickcharlie-tca: yes, that bug is fixed btw. (plymouth)20:13
charlie-tcaWell, at least fix-committed now20:15
charlie-tcaWe can't mark it fixed until we have the new plymouth stuff in 20:16
madnickAnd the progress bar :P 2 camps now, that is not good, we can't have both20:16
astraljavacharlie-tca: I go to Settings | Settings Manager | Keyboard, then Application Shortcuts. When I click on Add, the dialog appears but the Shortcut area has no entry field.20:17
knomemadnick, i'll discuss with ochosi about it :P20:18
madnickknome: good :)20:18
charlie-tcaright, you type in the command first20:18
charlie-tcathen hit okay20:18
charlie-tcathen hit the key combination you want it to use20:18
* astraljava feels like dying20:18
charlie-tcaand there is no prompt you recognize when hitting those keys20:19
charlie-tcait isn't like they don't make it easy, is it?20:19
astraljavaCould that be indicated a little bit more intuitively? I had no idea I was supposed to hit the key combo at that point.20:19
charlie-tcaThat is more intuitive now than it used to be20:20
charlie-tcanew people20:20
astraljavaHehehe. :D20:20
charlie-tcaat least now you get an "okay" button20:20
astraljavaRight. :)20:20
charlie-tcareally. They did improve it a lot20:21
astraljavaCool, but still I'd wish there'd be like a few words above it that say "Press the desired key combination now, please"20:21
astraljavaWhat I'm seeing is a typical example of a failed result dialog.20:22
charlie-tcaThere are several bugs filed for that20:22
* astraljava faints20:22
charlie-tcayeah, both in launchpad and Xfce bugzilla20:22
astraljavaxfce4 devs aren't about user-friendliness, are they?20:22
charlie-tcawell, to a certain degree only20:23
charlie-tcaI mean, they did add that Okay button20:23
astraljavaOkay. Well, good that I'm not the only one arguing about that. :) Says I'm not completely out there on UX design. :D20:23
charlie-tcaused to just get a blank box, that you had to know was for the command, then a blank to hit the keys at20:24
astraljavaHehehe. :D20:24
astraljavaDo they code with their mice, too?20:24
charlie-tcano, they use geany20:24
astraljavageany's actually pretty good, just found out about the other day.20:25
madnickgeany is awesome!20:25
astraljavaJust had some problems with out projects' python files' indentations.20:25
astraljavaWhich is a pretty big thing when it comes to, you know, developing with python. :D20:25
charlie-tcaso, see, they are okay!20:25
astraljavaOkay, I'll let them off the hook. :D20:26
charlie-tcaThey just spend their time on real problems, not those "make it easy" ones20:26
astraljavaAnything in particular that you'd want me to test, or should I just poke around and file the results?20:26
charlie-tcayou got it to work, then.20:27
astraljavaAnd those are excellent bite-sized bugs to fix for the young-ungs.20:27
* charlie-tca is more depressed now20:27
astraljavaawww..... there.... there....20:27
astraljavaI should probably join #u-testing too, I'm a tad curious about how they're fixing these things.20:28
charlie-tcathey ain't20:28
astraljavaOh. That's just for reporting/asking questions?20:28
charlie-tcaI been in -testing, -devel, -desktop, -bugs, -installer, -release today trying to find out what is wrong and how to get it fixed20:29
charlie-tcaThey all agree, I got a bug20:29
astraljavaRight, gonna be fixed later, then.20:30
charlie-tcaand it is dandy bug, as far as they go20:30
charlie-tcaone of a kind20:30
charlie-tcashouldn't happen20:30
charlie-tcareally strange20:30
charlie-tcabut it is a bug20:30
astraljavaWhat's the bug number again?20:30
madnick820460 i think20:31
charlie-tcabug 82073120:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 820731 in casper (Ubuntu) "Oneiric Ocelot Xubuntu Desktop images fail to install" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/82073120:31
astraljavacharlie-tca: Is that only with amd64, or didn't you say you tried both?20:32
charlie-tcatwo systems, one is 32bit and one is 64bit, and both failed20:33
charlie-tcatowards the bottom you will see my hardware is listed in a comment20:33
charlie-tcaoh, maybe not20:34
charlie-tcasomeone said if you are not logged in, you don't see much20:34
astraljavaYeah I see them. But... I don't understand. Shouldn't ubiquity then depend on gnome-power-manager, if it's going to use it? 20:39
charlie-tcanothing should. it is deprecated20:40
astraljavaSo... they _should_ fix that, then?20:41
charlie-tcawell, yes, I agree20:41
astraljavaBut they're not?20:42
charlie-tcawell, I expect "they" are, but finding "they" is proving difficult20:42
astraljavaHeheh. :)20:42
astraljavaI'll read a bit about casper and see whether that's not too much over my head.20:42
charlie-tcaI keep looking for they, though20:43
astraljavaSure, sure. :)20:44
charlie-tcaSurely, Xubuntu won't be the only thing I can not install, will it?20:45
charlie-tcaIf I can find the other ones that fail, maybe I can get more help?20:45
astraljavastgraber seems to have made the most recent changes.20:46
astraljavaSounds logical enough.20:46
astraljavaAhh... the whole foundations team, actually, have been working on it recently.20:47
charlie-tcajust trying to get mr_pouit some help with lightdm. Is it working yet?20:50
astraljavaSo it looks like g-p-m has been removed from casper, but not ubiquity.20:51
astraljavaCan you specify 'working'?20:51
astraljavaBack in June.20:51
charlie-tcaworking == lightdm usable by all of us, instead of just Ubuntu20:52
astraljavaC'mon! ubiquity branch, over 40 megs?20:52
astraljavaYes, but what was the problem? How wasn't it working for us?20:53
charlie-tcaum, no auto-login, two sessions instead of one, no default session filled in, 20:53
charlie-tcalive session just got fixed for alpha3 (cause was lightdm configuration)20:54
astraljavaMeh, spoke too soon. The hook's still there. I misunderstood Brian's comment on the bug.20:55
charlie-tcaThe way it is set up right now, the only possible default session for auto-login is Ubuntu20:55
charlie-tcaThat's hard coded in lightdm20:55
charlie-tcawhich means we can not change it20:56
astraljavaOh, those! :D Well, yes, I can talk to mr_pouit when he's around, to see whether I can lend a hand in anything.20:56
madnicki think that was hardcoded in the greeter?20:56
madnickIm pretty sure i saw that20:56
charlie-tcayeah, those little ones20:56
charlie-tcamadnick: where ever it is, we are not able to change it20:56
charlie-tcamicahg: kubuntu desktop64 installed on the same hardware21:04
charlie-tcamore depressing21:05
* micahg checks the seeds21:05
charlie-tcawill go download lubuntu next21:05
astraljavaHmm... that hook should bail out cleanly if it doesn't find gnome-power-manager.21:08
charlie-tcaOh, good21:09
charlie-tcaplantoschka: any idea on a news release that says we did not release alpha3?21:23
charlie-tcaWe blame no one, all we said in the release notes is:21:24
charlie-tcaThe Xubuntu images currently require several workarounds in order to be used, so are not being officially published with the A3 release. Known issues have been documented below for those wanting to work with the daily images. 21:24
charlie-tcamicahg: my installs so far on the same computer, no change other then the cd-r that was used:21:25
charlie-tcaUbuntu Desktop amd64 installed good, Xubuntu desktop amd64 failed, two installs attempted, Kubuntu desktop amd64 installed good21:26
charlie-tcaand at least an hour for lubuntu to download21:27
astraljavaI would have to assume, without further investigation, that the next hook 40install_driver_updates is what's actually failing, since that g-p-m hook bailed out nicely.21:36
astraljavaWell, not necessarily, it won't output anything if it's succesful.21:38
astraljavaActually, it won't output anything at all.21:38
pleia2charlie-tca: I'm thinking we don't put an announcement on the site, just something to -devel21:44
charlie-tcapeople will be looking for the release, though21:45
charlie-tcaeven though it is in the release notes21:46
astraljavaBasically, your Xubuntu installation is capable of dying during ubiquity's remove_unusable_kernels(), configure_hardware(), install_extras() or somewhere in configure_bootloader(), which is where I see the next output after casper-reconfigure says it cannot find gnome-power-manager.22:01
astraljavaThis might take a while. :)22:02
astraljavaWell, that list should still include other hooks after 32gnome-power-manager, which are 40install_driver_updates and 49kubuntu_gnome_icon_cache.22:03
micahgcharlie-tca: hmm, can you run an md5sum on the CD-R for xubuntu?22:07
astraljavamicahg: You're not part of foundations team by any chance? :)22:16
micahgastraljava: no, security ")22:16
astraljavaOh okay.22:16
micahgbut I was using xubuntu before I was an ubuntu-dev22:17
astraljavaWell actually, I should have been thinking about the installer team, anyway. I was still just stuck on casper, but the culprit lies in ubiquity.22:18
astraljavamicahg: Right, yeah.22:18
micahgI haven't had a chance to dig into that stuff yet22:18
astraljavaYeah, me neither. So it's gonna take a while to dig through all the aforementioned functions, and the possibilities that could kill it for charlie. Well, during the weekend, then.22:19
astraljavacharlie-tca: Could you upload /var/log/installer/syslog from one of the successful installations, so that I could take a look and maybe find something that could narrow the search down a bit, please?22:20
astraljava...or send them to me in email or something.22:21
charlie-tcapastebin or email?22:22
astraljavaWell, pastebin is fine, thanks!22:22
charlie-tcamicahg: how long does it take to pull md5sum from the cd?22:23
micahgidk, as long as it takes to read it I would think22:23
micahg2-10 min depending on the drive22:24
astraljavacharlie-tca: Did you check the download updates while installing box?22:24
charlie-tcaon all installs22:24
charlie-tcamicahg: 304a09cc663146dc7e4dcd217ef8d672  /dev/cdrom22:30
charlie-tcaastraljava: I am having issues getting syslog into kate22:31
charlie-tcaI could really learn to dislike kubuntu22:32
micahgthat doesn't match 20110803.222:32
micahgmaybe reburn and try again?22:33
charlie-tcaI have to through and do some calculations to make it not contain the extra space, then22:33
* micahg isn't sure md5sum /dev/cdrom is even the right way to do that22:33
charlie-tcaastraljava: http://paste.ubuntu.com/65891522:35
charlie-tcamicahg: calculating22:39
astraljavacharlie-tca: Thanks!22:40
charlie-tcaif I go away, I havve lightning and thunder in the area22:40
charlie-tcadid I tell you, I really dislike kubuntu22:41
astraljavaHaha! Then I shouldn't tell you that instead of keeping vanilla on this work laptop, I'm contemplating on installing either kubuntu or xubuntu instead. Oh wait, I just did!22:42
charlie-tcastill counting22:48
charlie-tcano, you shouldn't tell me.22:48
charlie-tcaKubuntu is too faded for my eyes to read the screen easily, and got too much stuff in the way.22:49
astraljavaYeah I can understand that.22:51
charlie-tcastill counting22:53
charlie-tcastill counting23:08
charlie-tcastill counting23:17
charlie-tcamicahg: not sure this is ever going to finish now23:18
charlie-tcausing this - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM#Check%20the%20CD23:23
micahgaccording to that it takes ~10 min23:34
charlie-tcahere it is - 19815fe1a15674db6fa51b8960629bc323:40
charlie-tcalooks to me like it took just over an hour23:40
charlie-tcaas in 1 hour and 11 minutes23:40
charlie-tcadoes it match?23:44
micahgthat looks familiar23:45
charlie-tcaI am really hoping it is right, after that long23:45
micahg19815fe1a15674db6fa51b8960629bc3 *oneiric-desktop-amd64.iso23:45
micahgso, it's not the CD, weird23:45
charlie-tcaeven more strange - 705998848 bytes (706 MB) copied, 3619.29 s, 195 kB/s23:46
charlie-tcathe cd -r is only 673MB23:46
charlie-tcaI guess it is all in the numbers used23:46

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