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=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Q and A with Jonathan Lange - Application Developer Programme - Instructors: jml
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ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/08/05/%23ubuntu-classroom.html16:08
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat ||
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Q and A with Jonathan Lange - Application Developer Programme - Instructors: jml
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/08/05/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.16:17
jmlBefore I take your questions, please allow me to introduce myself16:30
jmlMy name is Jonathan Lange, and I work at Canonical on our developer programme16:31
jmlI used to work on Launchpad, now I don't.16:31
jmlFeel free to ask Launchpad questions on #launchpad :)16:31
jmlThe developer programme stuff is fairly new, but I'm happy to answer any questions you have on it, or  application development more generally16:32
ClassBotnigelb asked: What does the new developer program comprise of? How do you envision helping app developers more?16:33
jmlGood question16:34
jmlVery specifically, what I'm working on *right now* is making it much easier for people who want to distribute binaries to get that software packaged, in a PPA and in the software center16:34
jmlautomagic binary packaging16:34
jmlMore broadly, there's a lot of stuff going on in the Ubuntu project & in Canonical that is directly or indirectly related to helping app developers16:35
jmle.g. A bunch of people are working on developer.ubuntu.com16:36
jmlnigelb: yeah, like pkgme16:36
jmlnigelb: in fact, that's where I'm landing lots of my work16:36
jmlnigelb: but a pkgme for binaries rather than source16:36
jmlnigelb: I think so :)16:37
jmlanother part of what we want to do is make it safer to run binaries16:38
jmlanother thing that's not officially part of the programme but just something that motivated community members are doing is writing up posts & content about how to actually *write* apps16:40
ClassBotjsjgruber asked: Isn't it important from a security point of view that everything be introduced to the repositories through source?16:40
jmljsjgruber: I guess that's the ideal from a security point of view.16:41
jmljsjgruber: but ultimately, some people will want to install some binaries, and we need to figure out how to make that as safe as possible16:41
jmlapparmor, maybe running stuff inside arkose etc.16:42
jmljsjgruber: does that answer the question?16:42
ClassBotnigelb asked: apps that are in through the developer program will only be for the latest release or do developers have the option to release to all currently supported Ubuntu versions?16:42
jmlThe automagic binary packaging stuff is aimed toward getting stuff into the software center for versions of Ubuntu that support the software center16:43
jmlIn general, when bosses & stakeholders talk to me, they are most interested in current release of Ubuntu.16:44
jmlnigelb: do you think it's important to enable people to distribute their new apps to people running older versions?16:44
jmltbh, I think it'll be driven by demand. If devs think that they'll get more users from older versions, we'll hear about it pretty quickly.16:46
jmland there's not really any philosophical or technical reason not to.16:47
jmlanyone actually writing apps aimed at Ubuntu?16:47
ClassBotdeuxpi asked: What is the benefit (to Ubuntu as a project) of promoting the publication of binaries only?16:48
jmlIt's more enabling than actually promoting.16:48
jmlAnd the benefit is for users.16:49
jmle.g. A lot of the games you can get in the software center are released only as binaries16:49
jmlI have to confess to very much enjoying World of Goo16:49
jmlIt would be better if the source were available, but gosh it's great to play a game like that without having to dual boot.16:50
jmldeuxpi: does that answer your question?16:51
jmldeuxpi: my pleasure16:52
jmlone possible fallout of the binary packaging work I'm doing now is that it'll be really easy to submit open source apps, even if they aren't packaged.16:52
jmlthat'd be something we work out with the ARB16:53
ClassBotjsjgruber asked: Have you any feel for how Debian and other upstreams would feel about adopting these ideas?16:54
jmlI have no idea :)16:54
ClassBotnigelb asked: A follow up to my last question. If I get my app into a version of Ubuntu, will it automatically be included in the next?16:56
jmlAt the moment, it depends.16:56
jmlI'm pretty sure that if you go through the ARB, the answer is 'yes'16:56
jmlIf you're going through the proprietary apps system, then the answer is 'no, but it doesn't matter, because it'll appear in the software center'16:57
jmlam being kicked out of the room I'm in. back in a tick.16:58
jmlthey've closed off the wifi at this event, welcome to 3G powered Ubuntu Q+A17:01
jmlNo more questions?17:01
ClassBotnigelb asked: What more do you expect to happen in this space before this cycle is over?17:02
jmlIf I knew my manager weren't watching, I'd say I'm optimistic that I can finish off this dang binary stuff.17:03
jmlBy the time we release oneiric, I also want us to have a pretty clear picture & plan, something that everyone can be excited by & that isn't just a weird internal Canonical thing.17:04
jmlUmm, also developer.ubuntu.com up-and-running and awesome and people submitting content to it17:05
jmlThat's about it. tbh, I've been pretty focused on one thing.17:06
ClassBotnigelb asked: Since we have binaries the packages, would it support all the platforms Ubuntu supports? Specifically ARM.17:08
jmlNo. It'd be up to the app developer17:08
jmlSo, if you wrote a game,17:08
jmland it was a really excellent game17:08
jmland you compiled it for armel and released that17:09
jmlthen it would only work on armel17:09
jmlIf you caved into peer pressure and instead compiled it for i386, then that's all it would be available for17:09
jmlfor the first cut, we're not even allowing you to provide binaries for multiple arches17:10
jmlbut that's definitely on the radar17:10
jmlUmm, actually, on the earlier 'upstreams & Debian' question17:11
jmlI'd like to point out that it's not conceptually different to what we do already, in having a partner archive that includes fluendo and so forth17:12
jmljust basically making it way less work to do that17:12
jml... and my favourite author is Dostoyevksy17:14
jmlAny more questions?17:15
jmlAnyone writing an app for Ubuntu as we speak?17:16
jmldropped again. back, this time on hotel provided internet.17:18
ClassBotaquarius asked: what's the rough length of time between submitting an app for review (http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/freestable/) and the app appearing in software centre?17:18
jmlI don't have direct experience in this, but allison informs me it takes 3 months17:19
jmland that most of those months are spent getting a good screenshot17:19
jmlWhich is obviously terrible.17:19
jmlSo I think the ARB has plans afoot to use the same system that commercial apps use17:20
ClassBotThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.17:20
jmlwhich I think would be a great idea, but I'm not 100% sure, and I'm not on the ARB, so you shouldn't take that as gospel.17:21
jmlaquarius: does that answer your question?17:22
jmlThe commercial process is you submit an app in a fancy web form that allows you to upload a screenshot, and then someone packages it & uploads it into a PPA for you17:23
jmlmain difference is nicer UI & dedicated folk17:24
jmland the work I'm doing atm is changing the 'someone' to 'something'17:24
jmlwhich will make it way easier for us to deal with the flood of apps that you guys are going to write17:25
jmlaquarius: I don't know if attaching the screenshot helps, sorry, I can only assume it does.17:25
ClassBotThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.17:25
jmlaquarius: But I can say that you should expect better news & answers for this soon.17:26
jml4 minutes remaining, 10 minutes of battery life.17:26
jmlanyone have any questions that consume unusual amounts of battery life?17:27
jmlOK. I'm wrapping up now.17:29
jmlThanks all for the chat & questions.17:29
jmlNext time we talk, I hope to have way more to say17:30
jmlAnd you guys to be asking questions like, "My app is getting too many users, what do I do about it?"17:30
jmlcos I can really help with that one17:30
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/08/05/%23ubuntu-classroom.html17:30
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat ||
nigelbyay, thanks jml!17:34
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