=== med is now known as med_out === _LibertyZero is now known as LibertyZero === med_out is now known as medberry === medberry is now known as med_out === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Q and A with Jonathan Lange - Application Developer Programme - Instructors: jml === med_out is now known as medberry === sdx24 is now known as sdx23 [16:08] Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/08/05/%23ubuntu-classroom.html === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Q and A with Jonathan Lange - Application Developer Programme - Instructors: jml [16:17] Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/08/05/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. [16:30] Hello! [16:30] Before I take your questions, please allow me to introduce myself [16:31] My name is Jonathan Lange, and I work at Canonical on our developer programme [16:31] I used to work on Launchpad, now I don't. [16:31] Feel free to ask Launchpad questions on #launchpad :) [16:32] The developer programme stuff is fairly new, but I'm happy to answer any questions you have on it, or application development more generally [16:33] nigelb asked: What does the new developer program comprise of? How do you envision helping app developers more? [16:34] Good question [16:34] Very specifically, what I'm working on *right now* is making it much easier for people who want to distribute binaries to get that software packaged, in a PPA and in the software center [16:34] automagic binary packaging [16:35] More broadly, there's a lot of stuff going on in the Ubuntu project & in Canonical that is directly or indirectly related to helping app developers [16:36] e.g. A bunch of people are working on developer.ubuntu.com [16:36] nigelb: yeah, like pkgme [16:36] nigelb: in fact, that's where I'm landing lots of my work [16:36] nigelb: but a pkgme for binaries rather than source [16:37] nigelb: I think so :) [16:38] another part of what we want to do is make it safer to run binaries [16:40] another thing that's not officially part of the programme but just something that motivated community members are doing is writing up posts & content about how to actually *write* apps [16:40] jsjgruber asked: Isn't it important from a security point of view that everything be introduced to the repositories through source? [16:41] jsjgruber: I guess that's the ideal from a security point of view. [16:41] jsjgruber: but ultimately, some people will want to install some binaries, and we need to figure out how to make that as safe as possible [16:42] apparmor, maybe running stuff inside arkose etc. [16:42] jsjgruber: does that answer the question? [16:42] nigelb asked: apps that are in through the developer program will only be for the latest release or do developers have the option to release to all currently supported Ubuntu versions? [16:43] The automagic binary packaging stuff is aimed toward getting stuff into the software center for versions of Ubuntu that support the software center [16:44] In general, when bosses & stakeholders talk to me, they are most interested in current release of Ubuntu. [16:44] nigelb: do you think it's important to enable people to distribute their new apps to people running older versions? [16:46] tbh, I think it'll be driven by demand. If devs think that they'll get more users from older versions, we'll hear about it pretty quickly. [16:47] and there's not really any philosophical or technical reason not to. [16:47] anyone actually writing apps aimed at Ubuntu? [16:48] deuxpi asked: What is the benefit (to Ubuntu as a project) of promoting the publication of binaries only? [16:48] It's more enabling than actually promoting. [16:49] And the benefit is for users. [16:49] e.g. A lot of the games you can get in the software center are released only as binaries [16:49] I have to confess to very much enjoying World of Goo [16:50] It would be better if the source were available, but gosh it's great to play a game like that without having to dual boot. [16:51] deuxpi: does that answer your question? [16:52] deuxpi: my pleasure [16:52] one possible fallout of the binary packaging work I'm doing now is that it'll be really easy to submit open source apps, even if they aren't packaged. [16:53] that'd be something we work out with the ARB [16:54] jsjgruber asked: Have you any feel for how Debian and other upstreams would feel about adopting these ideas? [16:54] I have no idea :) [16:56] nigelb asked: A follow up to my last question. If I get my app into a version of Ubuntu, will it automatically be included in the next? [16:56] At the moment, it depends. [16:56] I'm pretty sure that if you go through the ARB, the answer is 'yes' [16:57] If you're going through the proprietary apps system, then the answer is 'no, but it doesn't matter, because it'll appear in the software center' [16:58] am being kicked out of the room I'm in. back in a tick. [16:59] back. [17:01] *ahem* [17:01] they've closed off the wifi at this event, welcome to 3G powered Ubuntu Q+A [17:01] No more questions? [17:02] nigelb asked: What more do you expect to happen in this space before this cycle is over? [17:03] If I knew my manager weren't watching, I'd say I'm optimistic that I can finish off this dang binary stuff. [17:04] By the time we release oneiric, I also want us to have a pretty clear picture & plan, something that everyone can be excited by & that isn't just a weird internal Canonical thing. [17:05] Umm, also developer.ubuntu.com up-and-running and awesome and people submitting content to it [17:06] That's about it. tbh, I've been pretty focused on one thing. [17:08] nigelb asked: Since we have binaries the packages, would it support all the platforms Ubuntu supports? Specifically ARM. [17:08] No. It'd be up to the app developer [17:08] So, if you wrote a game, [17:08] and it was a really excellent game [17:09] and you compiled it for armel and released that [17:09] then it would only work on armel [17:09] If you caved into peer pressure and instead compiled it for i386, then that's all it would be available for [17:10] for the first cut, we're not even allowing you to provide binaries for multiple arches [17:10] but that's definitely on the radar [17:11] Umm, actually, on the earlier 'upstreams & Debian' question [17:12] I'd like to point out that it's not conceptually different to what we do already, in having a partner archive that includes fluendo and so forth [17:12] just basically making it way less work to do that [17:14] ... and my favourite author is Dostoyevksy [17:15] Any more questions? [17:16] Anyone writing an app for Ubuntu as we speak? [17:18] dropped again. back, this time on hotel provided internet. [17:18] aquarius asked: what's the rough length of time between submitting an app for review (http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/freestable/) and the app appearing in software centre? [17:19] I don't have direct experience in this, but allison informs me it takes 3 months [17:19] and that most of those months are spent getting a good screenshot [17:19] Which is obviously terrible. [17:20] So I think the ARB has plans afoot to use the same system that commercial apps use [17:20] There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. [17:21] which I think would be a great idea, but I'm not 100% sure, and I'm not on the ARB, so you shouldn't take that as gospel. [17:22] aquarius: does that answer your question? [17:23] The commercial process is you submit an app in a fancy web form that allows you to upload a screenshot, and then someone packages it & uploads it into a PPA for you [17:24] main difference is nicer UI & dedicated folk [17:24] and the work I'm doing atm is changing the 'someone' to 'something' [17:25] which will make it way easier for us to deal with the flood of apps that you guys are going to write [17:25] aquarius: I don't know if attaching the screenshot helps, sorry, I can only assume it does. [17:25] There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session. [17:26] aquarius: But I can say that you should expect better news & answers for this soon. [17:26] 4 minutes remaining, 10 minutes of battery life. [17:27] anyone have any questions that consume unusual amounts of battery life? [17:29] OK. I'm wrapping up now. [17:29] Thanks all for the chat & questions. [17:30] Next time we talk, I hope to have way more to say [17:30] And you guys to be asking questions like, "My app is getting too many users, what do I do about it?" [17:30] cos I can really help with that one [17:30] Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/08/05/%23ubuntu-classroom.html === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || [17:34] yay, thanks jml! === medberry is now known as med_eatz === Ender is now known as JasonO === med_eatz is now known as med_afk === med_afk is now known as med_out === yofel_ is now known as yofel === med_out is now known as medberry