[16:08] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/08/05/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
[16:17] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/08/05/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[16:30] <jml> Hello!
[16:30] <jml> Before I take your questions, please allow me to introduce myself
[16:31] <jml> My name is Jonathan Lange, and I work at Canonical on our developer programme
[16:31] <jml> I used to work on Launchpad, now I don't.
[16:31] <jml> Feel free to ask Launchpad questions on #launchpad :)
[16:32] <jml> The developer programme stuff is fairly new, but I'm happy to answer any questions you have on it, or  application development more generally
[16:33] <ClassBot> nigelb asked: What does the new developer program comprise of? How do you envision helping app developers more?
[16:34] <jml> Good question
[16:34] <jml> Very specifically, what I'm working on *right now* is making it much easier for people who want to distribute binaries to get that software packaged, in a PPA and in the software center
[16:34] <jml> automagic binary packaging
[16:35] <jml> More broadly, there's a lot of stuff going on in the Ubuntu project & in Canonical that is directly or indirectly related to helping app developers
[16:36] <jml> e.g. A bunch of people are working on developer.ubuntu.com
[16:36] <jml> nigelb: yeah, like pkgme
[16:36] <jml> nigelb: in fact, that's where I'm landing lots of my work
[16:36] <jml> nigelb: but a pkgme for binaries rather than source
[16:37] <jml> nigelb: I think so :)
[16:38] <jml> another part of what we want to do is make it safer to run binaries
[16:40] <jml> another thing that's not officially part of the programme but just something that motivated community members are doing is writing up posts & content about how to actually *write* apps
[16:40] <ClassBot> jsjgruber asked: Isn't it important from a security point of view that everything be introduced to the repositories through source?
[16:41] <jml> jsjgruber: I guess that's the ideal from a security point of view.
[16:41] <jml> jsjgruber: but ultimately, some people will want to install some binaries, and we need to figure out how to make that as safe as possible
[16:42] <jml> apparmor, maybe running stuff inside arkose etc.
[16:42] <jml> jsjgruber: does that answer the question?
[16:42] <ClassBot> nigelb asked: apps that are in through the developer program will only be for the latest release or do developers have the option to release to all currently supported Ubuntu versions?
[16:43] <jml> The automagic binary packaging stuff is aimed toward getting stuff into the software center for versions of Ubuntu that support the software center
[16:44] <jml> In general, when bosses & stakeholders talk to me, they are most interested in current release of Ubuntu.
[16:44] <jml> nigelb: do you think it's important to enable people to distribute their new apps to people running older versions?
[16:46] <jml> tbh, I think it'll be driven by demand. If devs think that they'll get more users from older versions, we'll hear about it pretty quickly.
[16:47] <jml> and there's not really any philosophical or technical reason not to.
[16:47] <jml> anyone actually writing apps aimed at Ubuntu?
[16:48] <ClassBot> deuxpi asked: What is the benefit (to Ubuntu as a project) of promoting the publication of binaries only?
[16:48] <jml> It's more enabling than actually promoting.
[16:49] <jml> And the benefit is for users.
[16:49] <jml> e.g. A lot of the games you can get in the software center are released only as binaries
[16:49] <jml> I have to confess to very much enjoying World of Goo
[16:50] <jml> It would be better if the source were available, but gosh it's great to play a game like that without having to dual boot.
[16:51] <jml> deuxpi: does that answer your question?
[16:52] <jml> deuxpi: my pleasure
[16:52] <jml> one possible fallout of the binary packaging work I'm doing now is that it'll be really easy to submit open source apps, even if they aren't packaged.
[16:53] <jml> that'd be something we work out with the ARB
[16:54] <ClassBot> jsjgruber asked: Have you any feel for how Debian and other upstreams would feel about adopting these ideas?
[16:54] <jml> I have no idea :)
[16:56] <ClassBot> nigelb asked: A follow up to my last question. If I get my app into a version of Ubuntu, will it automatically be included in the next?
[16:56] <jml> At the moment, it depends.
[16:56] <jml> I'm pretty sure that if you go through the ARB, the answer is 'yes'
[16:57] <jml> If you're going through the proprietary apps system, then the answer is 'no, but it doesn't matter, because it'll appear in the software center'
[16:58] <jml> am being kicked out of the room I'm in. back in a tick.
[16:59] <jml> back.
[17:01] <jml> *ahem*
[17:01] <jml> they've closed off the wifi at this event, welcome to 3G powered Ubuntu Q+A
[17:01] <jml> No more questions?
[17:02] <ClassBot> nigelb asked: What more do you expect to happen in this space before this cycle is over?
[17:03] <jml> If I knew my manager weren't watching, I'd say I'm optimistic that I can finish off this dang binary stuff.
[17:04] <jml> By the time we release oneiric, I also want us to have a pretty clear picture & plan, something that everyone can be excited by & that isn't just a weird internal Canonical thing.
[17:05] <jml> Umm, also developer.ubuntu.com up-and-running and awesome and people submitting content to it
[17:06] <jml> That's about it. tbh, I've been pretty focused on one thing.
[17:08] <ClassBot> nigelb asked: Since we have binaries the packages, would it support all the platforms Ubuntu supports? Specifically ARM.
[17:08] <jml> No. It'd be up to the app developer
[17:08] <jml> So, if you wrote a game,
[17:08] <jml> and it was a really excellent game
[17:09] <jml> and you compiled it for armel and released that
[17:09] <jml> then it would only work on armel
[17:09] <jml> If you caved into peer pressure and instead compiled it for i386, then that's all it would be available for
[17:10] <jml> for the first cut, we're not even allowing you to provide binaries for multiple arches
[17:10] <jml> but that's definitely on the radar
[17:11] <jml> Umm, actually, on the earlier 'upstreams & Debian' question
[17:12] <jml> I'd like to point out that it's not conceptually different to what we do already, in having a partner archive that includes fluendo and so forth
[17:12] <jml> just basically making it way less work to do that
[17:14] <jml> ... and my favourite author is Dostoyevksy
[17:15] <jml> Any more questions?
[17:16] <jml> Anyone writing an app for Ubuntu as we speak?
[17:18] <jml> dropped again. back, this time on hotel provided internet.
[17:18] <ClassBot> aquarius asked: what's the rough length of time between submitting an app for review (http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/freestable/) and the app appearing in software centre?
[17:19] <jml> I don't have direct experience in this, but allison informs me it takes 3 months
[17:19] <jml> and that most of those months are spent getting a good screenshot
[17:19] <jml> Which is obviously terrible.
[17:20] <jml> So I think the ARB has plans afoot to use the same system that commercial apps use
[17:20] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[17:21] <jml> which I think would be a great idea, but I'm not 100% sure, and I'm not on the ARB, so you shouldn't take that as gospel.
[17:22] <jml> aquarius: does that answer your question?
[17:23] <jml> The commercial process is you submit an app in a fancy web form that allows you to upload a screenshot, and then someone packages it & uploads it into a PPA for you
[17:24] <jml> main difference is nicer UI & dedicated folk
[17:24] <jml> and the work I'm doing atm is changing the 'someone' to 'something'
[17:25] <jml> which will make it way easier for us to deal with the flood of apps that you guys are going to write
[17:25] <jml> aquarius: I don't know if attaching the screenshot helps, sorry, I can only assume it does.
[17:25] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[17:26] <jml> aquarius: But I can say that you should expect better news & answers for this soon.
[17:26] <jml> 4 minutes remaining, 10 minutes of battery life.
[17:27] <jml> anyone have any questions that consume unusual amounts of battery life?
[17:29] <jml> OK. I'm wrapping up now.
[17:29] <jml> Thanks all for the chat & questions.
[17:30] <jml> Next time we talk, I hope to have way more to say
[17:30] <jml> And you guys to be asking questions like, "My app is getting too many users, what do I do about it?"
[17:30] <jml> cos I can really help with that one
[17:30] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/08/05/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
[17:34] <nigelb> yay, thanks jml!